The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[Rossfan]

).

What really annoys me is the absolute arrogance with which this plan has been pursued, althernatives have been mentioned, but FF seem unwilling to engage with any other parties on this,

You can bet your last € that they've engaged with their effin mates in the Bankers and Developers who caused the mess in the first place.
I suppose there's no chance of them bailing out all the poor devils who have massive mortgages of anything up to three times the real value of the houses they were stampeded into buying during the Bubble?

[full back]

).

What really annoys me is the absolute arrogance with which this plan has been pursued, althernatives have been mentioned, but FF seem unwilling to engage with any other parties on this,

You can bet your last € that they've engaged with their effin mates in the Bankers and Developers who caused the mess in the first place.
I suppose there's no chance of them bailing out all the poor devils who have massive mortgages of anything up to three times the real value of the houses they were stampeded into buying during the Bubble?

Stampeded into buying

Who made anyone buy?

[ludermor]

Interesting to see how this pans out, but its to be done quickly.
Developers are scared shitless of NAMA and cannot move on any work at the minute. Not all developers are bad guys but all developers are crippled at the minute. Something has to be done quickly to start things moving, their are small subbies and suppliers going bust every week at the minute cause money is heeld by the banks and this is for work done in good faith by the subbie/builder.

[bcarrier]

NAMA has been created to prevent a complete nationalisation of the banks which are effectively bust.

It is the shareholders in the banks who are being bailed out .

[An Gaeilgoir]

I think you already know my thoughts on this ..the unholy Trinity of FF/Developers/Bankers fcuked up the economy by their greed and now everyone else has to pay for it for the next 2 generations.
Meanwhile the FFers/Bankers/Developers will live off the millions they made during the artificial bubble.

F ***ing C***S the lot of them

it wasn't just the banks or developers who fucked up this country, the nation as a whole lived on credit way beyond their means, new cars, two holidays a year, designer gear to beat the band and so on. To say its banks and developers is nonsence, they are just one factor in the crash.  As for NAMA, it is going to take over all loans over 5 million good and bad, so to call it a "bad bank" is incorrect. There is a fund of 10 billion that will be used to finish off the sites half built and it will then sell of the finished units. Anyone who thinks that NAMA is a bail out for developers hasn't got a clue of what is hapening in the real world. A lot of people are going to loose a lot when NAMA comes calling including their homes. No sympathy for them really, if you live or borrow beyond your means well then be prepared for what comes, and that goes for ordinary homeowners too.

[muppet]

NAMA has been created to prevent a complete nationalisation of the banks which are effectively bust.

It is the shareholders in the banks who are being bailed out .

That is only part of it.

While there is no doubt this is to avoid the banks collapsing it also has the (politically pleasant) side effect of stopping the banks from marching the developers into the High Court and forcing them to pay up. This will buy time (possibly over a decade) for the cash strapped developers and almost certainly save most of them from ruin.

It makes no attempt to deal with ordinary mortgage holders many of whom also face ruin and who also have non-performing loans with the banks. It would be interesting to compare how much non-performing debt the two groups represent and to try to figure out why one group's debt is being taken off the banks while the others proceeds as normal, with court applications from the bank, repossession etc. NAMA will save no ordinary person from ruin.

[Rossfan]

NAMA will save no ordinary person from ruin.

Of course it wont but it will save the well heeled and well connected and beggar two or three generations.
But sure what matter once FF look after their mates.

[muppet]

I think you already know my thoughts on this ..the unholy Trinity of FF/Developers/Bankers fcuked up the economy by their greed and now everyone else has to pay for it for the next 2 generations.
Meanwhile the FFers/Bankers/Developers will live off the millions they made during the artificial bubble.

F ***ing C***S the lot of them

it wasn't just the banks or developers who fucked up this country, the nation as a whole lived on credit way beyond their means, new cars, two holidays a year, designer gear to beat the band and so on. To say its banks and developers is nonsence, they are just one factor in the crash.  As for NAMA, it is going to take over all loans over 5 million good and bad, so to call it a "bad bank" is incorrect. There is a fund of 10 billion that will be used to finish off the sites half built and it will then sell of the finished units. Anyone who thinks that NAMA is a bail out for developers hasn't got a clue of what is hapening in the real world. A lot of people are going to loose a lot when NAMA comes calling including their homes. No sympathy for them really, if you live or borrow beyond your means well then be prepared for what comes, and that goes for ordinary homeowners too.

An Gaeilgoir the Government can change the terms of reference of Nama any time without recourse to anyone. How do you think that will pan out?

[carribbear]

it wasn't just the banks or developers who fucked up this country, the nation as a whole lived on credit way beyond their means, new cars, two holidays a year, designer gear to beat the band and so on. To say its banks and developers is nonsence, they are just one factor in the crash.  As for NAMA, it is going to take over all loans over 5 million good and bad, so to call it a "bad bank" is incorrect. There is a fund of 10 billion that will be used to finish off the sites half built and it will then sell of the finished units. Anyone who thinks that NAMA is a bail out for developers hasn't got a clue of what is hapening in the real world. A lot of people are going to loose a lot when NAMA comes calling including their homes. No sympathy for them really, if you live or borrow beyond your means well then be prepared for what comes, and that goes for ordinary homeowners too.

The big developers should be out on the street, stripped of all assets and investigations to see if they siphoned funds to other companies or relatives. They should be repossesed also.
Any ordinary Joe Soap who cant afford their mortgages should either be given a mortgage holiday and if they cant raise the funds at a later date have their house sold or the deeds taken off them and allow them to rent. I dont have much sympathy for the greedy folk who bought beyond their means.

[muppet]

it wasn't just the banks or developers who fucked up this country, the nation as a whole lived on credit way beyond their means, new cars, two holidays a year, designer gear to beat the band and so on. To say its banks and developers is nonsence, they are just one factor in the crash.  As for NAMA, it is going to take over all loans over 5 million good and bad, so to call it a "bad bank" is incorrect. There is a fund of 10 billion that will be used to finish off the sites half built and it will then sell of the finished units. Anyone who thinks that NAMA is a bail out for developers hasn't got a clue of what is hapening in the real world. A lot of people are going to loose a lot when NAMA comes calling including their homes. No sympathy for them really, if you live or borrow beyond your means well then be prepared for what comes, and that goes for ordinary homeowners too.

The big developers should be out on the street, stripped of all assets and investigations to see if they siphoned funds to other companies or relatives. They should be repossesed also.
Any ordinary Joe Soap who cant afford their mortgages should either be given a mortgage holiday and if they cant raise the funds at a later date have their house sold or the deeds taken off them and allow them to rent. I dont have much sympathy for the greedy folk who bought beyond their means.

Everyone with a mortgage bought beyond their means if they lose their jobs. Hindsight is wonderful.

[carribbear]

Everyone with a mortgage bought beyond their means if they lose their jobs. Hindsight is wonderful.

I agree with that but theres a lot of folk who bought way way out of their ballpark. Makes me question the stupidity of folk who dont think "what if".
Mistakes like that deserve to be punished.

[bcarrier]

NAMA has been created to prevent a complete nationalisation of the banks which are effectively bust.

It is the shareholders in the banks who are being bailed out .

That is only part of it.

While there is no doubt this is to avoid the banks collapsing it also has the (politically pleasant) side effect of stopping the banks from marching the developers into the High Court and forcing them to pay up. This will buy time (possibly over a decade) for the cash strapped developers and almost certainly save most of them from ruin.

I don't get it. At one stage there looked to be some  potential for developers to buy in their own defaulting loans at a discount to book value from NAMA ( i know some are already doing this in the UK with the british banks) but does Lenihan's blacklist not stop this ?

IMO FF are terrified of bank nationalisation and inevitable politicising of subsequent decision making . If there is a pleasant side effect it is that pensioners and middle Ireland  who will have lost practically all instead of their entire AIB/BOI nesteggs.

[Bogball XV]

I can't believe that the supreme court would grant this - it's a f**king joke - a cynical person would say that the establishment is trying to ensure that Carroll's empire survives until NAMA.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0804/breaking22.htm

[orangeman]

I can't believe that the supreme court would grant this - it's a f**king joke - a cynical person would say that the establishment is trying to ensure that Carroll's empire survives until NAMA.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0804/breaking22.htm

You don't even have to be cynical to think this.

[Rossfan]

They'll get all their loans written off on forfeiting the lands in question then buy back the lands at a third of the value of the loans with the slate wiped clean.
Nothing like the oul Law for looking after the well heeled.