The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[bcarrier]

Developers were allowed to take out multiple loans secured on a single property.

This is being reported as if developers did something naughty and something similar to Lynn scandal went on...ie multiple first charges and forged documents.

I do not believe that is the case - and the whole issue of fixed charges, floating charges and personal guarantees is getting confused.

It appears that banks sought and obtained personal guarantees from directors  as a back up in the event of defaults on corporate borrowing ( ie if their first charge over specific asset was not enough to recover loan ) .

It is not at all unusual or irregular for an individual to give multiple personal guarantees ( although they should be avoided like the plague IMO) ....what does seem unusual is the level of reliance that was placed on these rather than fixed charges over other assets/property of the individuals concerned. It was piss poor risk management by the banks who now seem to want to place the blame on the borrower.

The state will get feck all from the guarantees too...I would expect most to be near men of straw as money will have made its way into trust structures during the good years .

[muppet]

A guy on Newtalk yesterday made a good analogy in explaining how much money has been put into Anglo Irish Bank by the Government to keep it afloat.

He said the money would buy 14 Luas lines in Dublin.

[muppet]

Latvia's dramatic fall from grace

Ireland's credit rating downgraded again

Are we now on the slippery slope?

[tyronefan]

bank of Ireland shares were 12 c a few weeks ago  now they are 2 euro  and almost the same with AIB

the ulster bank economist reckons we are past the worst of it according to todays papers   

Hope this is true

[bcarrier]

Peston had an interesting piece here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2009/06/spanking_bank_investors.html .

Not sure if the guarantee prevents Ireland taking a similar approach but would have thought the BoI buying back in there own bonds at a discount was possible because holders of these fear Ireland might do the same  ?

[muppet]

It's getting closer and closer.

We now have our very own debt clock.

http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

It's coming home,
It's coming home,
It's coming,
The IMF are coming home,
It's.....

[Bogball XV]

Peston had an interesting piece here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2009/06/spanking_bank_investors.html .

Not sure if the guarantee prevents Ireland taking a similar approach but would have thought the BoI buying back in there own bonds at a discount was possible because holders of these fear Ireland might do the same  ?

haven't had time to read the article yet, but afaik Anglo, AIB and BOI have already been buying back their own bonds at significant discounts, that's partly why their share prices have rebounded a little (that and misplaced optimism) - think BOI made a billion and AIB possibly more.

[the Deel Rover]

It's getting closer and closer.

We now have our very own debt clock.

http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

It's coming home,
It's coming home,
It's coming,
The IMF are coming home,
It's.....

does the clock go back an hour in the winter ?

[muppet]

It's getting closer and closer.

We now have our very own debt clock.

http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

It's coming home,
It's coming home,
It's coming,
The IMF are coming home,
It's.....

does the clock go back an hour in the winter ?

Only if they shut Anglo.

[passedit]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/moodys-cuts-irelands-credit-rating

Moody's cuts Ireland's credit rating

LONDON (MarketWatch) -- Credit-rating agency Moody's Investors Service on Thursday stripped Ireland of its Aaa government bond rating. The agency lowered the rating to Aa1 and said the outlook for Ireland remained negative. "The pronounced weakness in the economic activity has been translating into a severe deterioration of Ireland's public finances, and the country is set to emerge from the current economic crisis with a considerably higher debt burden for the foreseeable future," said Dietmar Hornung, a senior analyst in Moody's Sovereign Risk Group, in a news release.

Such a custom as yours I can get any day

[muppet]

http://www.examiner.ie/business/sngbsnidau/

By Conor Keane Business Editor
Wednesday, July 22, 2009

IRELAND will spend close to €3.5 billion – 11% of all tax collected – servicing a national debt of close to €92 billion this year, according to Bloxham Stockbrokers.

The National Treasury Management Agency (NTMA) raised a further €1bn in what appears to be its most successful bond auction so far this year, drawing bids of three to four times the bonds on offer, sending the premium demanded by investors for holding Irish debt to the lowest since mid-June.

As the national debt screams past the €66bn mark, heading for €92bn by the end of the year, it is expected that 11% of all tax collected will be needed to cover interest payments this year, jumping to 16%, on Goodbody estimates, next year and up from just 4.5% of all tax collected in 2007.

Bloxham analyst Alan McQuaid said that the NTMA's bond sales programme for 2009 effectively covers Ireland's funding needs of €20bn as announced in the Supplementary Budget on April 7 as well as refinancing a €5bn bond which matured in April.

"The agency has now raised a total of €16bn through three syndicated bond issues in January, February and June in addition to €5.7bn in five bond auctions held in the months of March through July. Another four auctions are due to be held from August to November to raise the remaining money," he said.

Mr McQuaid said there is no doubt investor risk appetite has picked up in recent months which has helped the NTMA.

He said: "However, we as a country shouldn't become complacent and believe that the answer to all our problems is to keep on borrowing. Quite simply, the huge levels of debt we are building up are unsustainable in the long-run.

"Ireland is now in a position where it needs to borrow more to fund a larger budgetary deficit, while paying higher costs for this borrowing.

"This means that ever increasing proportions of the country's tax revenues will be needed to service the national debt."

Mr McQuaid said the Government cannot afford to sit back and relax with regard to the Irish public finances.

"It has already taken the first steps on the road to sorting out the dire budgetary position by 2013. If it delivers on much needed spending cuts, then there is no reason why the NTMA should have any difficulty in selling government bonds in the months ahead, and why yield spreads over Germany can't narrow.

"However, failure to act on the report of An Bord Snip Nua will only increase the funding costs for the country and put an unnecessary financial burden on future generations," he added.

The 10-year Irish/German bond yield spread tightened to 198 basis points from 206 basis points before yesterday auction, the success of which raised the prospect that Dublin could soon start prefunding for its 2010 borrowing needs.

* See Ireland's national debt mount before your own eyes at: http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/business/sngbsnidau/#ixzz0M0B1E1PM

[muppet]

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/nama-legislation-to-be-published-today-420642.html

The legal framework drawn up to establish the National Assets Management Agency (NAMA) is due to be revealed later today.

The draft legislation was approved by the Cabinet following two days of discussion earlier this week.

One of the most important aspects of the bill will be the method used to value bad loans being transferred from Irish banks to NAMA.

The agency is the key part of the Government's plan to revive the Irish financial system by removing toxic debts from the books of the banks.

It is set to take control of around €90bn worth of loans given to property developers.

Most observers will be waiting to see how NAMA plans to value the assets on which these loans were based given the collapse of the property market in the past year.

The agency will not pay the current rock-bottom value of the assets, but will instead calculate the loan write-down based on a longer-term valuation.

The Bailout of the Developers has begun. Does anyone have any thoughts on this as we take pay cuts, get taxed to death and watch our own debts stay static but the Developers get bailed out?

[Rossfan]

I think you already know my thoughts on this ..the unholy Trinity of FF/Developers/Bankers fcuked up the economy by their greed and now everyone else has to pay for it for the next 2 generations.
Meanwhile the FFers/Bankers/Developers will live off the millions they made during the artificial bubble.

F ***ing C***S the lot of them

[bcarrier]

GUBU

[Bogball XV]

I've pretty much lost interest in what our governing party do as their total ineptness makes me sick, but, can we sit back and allow NAMA to happen?  There must be something that can be done to stop what is surely the stupidest idea since Baldrick had another cunning plan (and if memory serves me correctly he once paid a fortune for a turnip, although that may prove to have been better value than what we're getting).

What really annoys me is the absolute arrogance with which this plan has been pursued, althernatives have been mentioned, but FF seem unwilling to engage with any other parties on this, do recent election results not show them that at best they do not have a mandate from the majority of the population anymore?