The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[Bogball XV]

Do people think that perhaps in order to get the dole people should be made to participate in public works projects?  There's no point in pretending that those on the dole are available and actively seeking work (cos there isn't any and won't be for a long time), so what do you all think?

Does anyone in the North remember Enterprise Ulster - I think it did something like that.  I remember seeing bus shelters being made by those on that programme?  It doesn't exist any more but it sounds like what you're suggesting.

Vaguely remember it, but yeah, something like that only on a grander scale, we could always have a squad to go painting the houses and cleaning the windows for old dears and so on could be thrown in too. 

Since all the new unemployed have certain skills, basically allocate jobs and projects according to the skills they have and the skills they want.  In common with many on here I'm not looking at this from a position of total job security, so I could be out sorting out a new wind turbine in a few months time

[the Deel Rover]

ECB head praises govt handling of economic crisis

Independent
Thursday February 26 2009

The President of the European Central Bank has praised the Irish Government for its handling of the recession.

Speaking in Dublin today, Jean-Claude Trichet said the Government was acting resolutely to address the situation it found itself in.

He said he was optimistic about Ireland's chances of weathering the economic storm and believed the Government was taking the right action by cutting spending and moderating wages.

Mr Trichet also warned that Ireland was facing severe challenges in the coming years and that further hard decisions would have to be taken.

He said he would like to see more wage restraint and less regulation and believed Ireland was well-placed to benefit from an eventual recovery in the global economy.



what does he mean by this . Surely if the banks were more regulated we wouldn't be in as much sh*t as we are now  as the government would not have had to bail out any of the baks

[Roger]

Same here and hopefully it would result in the construction of some positive infrastructure.  

Private Sector construction companies would feel the pinch further though and couldn't be competitive against cheap labour like that.  It's a difficult one to manage.

[armaghniac]

Heidi is the proprietor of a bar in Berlin. In order to increase sales, she decides to allow her loyal customers - most of whom are unemployed
alcoholics - to drink now but pay later. She keeps track of the drinks consumed on a ledger (thereby granting the customers loans).

Word gets around and as a result increasing numbers of customers flood Into Heidi's bar.

Taking advantage of her customers' freedom from immediate payment
constraints, Heidi increases her prices for wine and beer, the most-consumed beverages. Her sales volume increases massively.

A young and dynamic customer service consultant at the local bank recognizes these customer debts as valuable future assets and increases Heidi's borrowing limit.

He sees no reason for undue concern since he has the debts of the alcoholics as collateral.

At the bank's corporate headquarters, expert bankers transform these customer assets into DRINKBONDS, ALKBONDS and PUKEBONDS. These securities are then traded on markets worldwide. No one really understands what these abbreviations mean and how the securities are guaranteed.

Nevertheless, as their prices continuously climb, the securities become top-selling items.

One day, although the prices are still climbing, a risk manager (subsequently of course fired due his negativity) of the bank decides that slowly the time has come to demand payment of the debts incurred by the drinkers at Heidi's bar.

However they cannot pay back the debts.

Heidi cannot fulfill her loan obligations and claims bankruptcy.

DRINKBOND and ALKBOND drop in price by 95 %. PUKEBOND performs better stabilizing in price after dropping by 80 %.

The suppliers of Heidi's bar, having granted her generous payment due dates and having invested in the securities are faced with a new situation.

Her wine supplier claims bankruptcy, her beer supplier is taken over by a competitor.

The bank is saved by the Government following dramatic round-the-clock consultations by leaders from the governing political parties.

The funds required for this purpose are obtained by a tax levied on the non-drinkers.

[Orior]

Alternatively.....

A man visits the jungle and asks a tribe to collect monkeys for which he pays £10 each. The tribe round up as many as possible and the man hands over the money and takes the monkeys.

A year later he visits again asking for more monkeys. As there is less about he pays £20 per monkey.

Another year later he visits again, there's even less monkeys in the jungle, so he pays £30 per monkey.

One more year later he visits the tribe again, and offers £50 per monkey. Unfortunately he has to dash off, but leaves his deputy to collect the monkeys and to pay out the money. But the tribe cant find any monkeys and are in despair. The deputy has an idea and suggests that he sells some of the monkeys caught previously back to the tribe for £30, and then they can sell them back to him for £50.

So the tribe collect all their money to buy as many monkeys as possible and hand the money over to the deputy. The deputy takes the money, leaves and is never seen again.

[Declan]

There is a mechanism that has never been used; Brussels has a huge unpatrolled sea border that is facilitating the importation of billions of illegal drugs, the effects of which cost billions (trillions?) to remedy.

So, as Ireland is the most westerly country,  they should nominate Ireland as the preferred base for the European Seals Patrol, establish a base in each of the coastal counties for rapid response and set-up shipbuilding facilities in Arklow, Killybegs, Galway, Foynes and Cork  (and Belfast to shut them up..).  A new rail network would be built to ferry materials between the Centres of Excellence ( Cost from EU = €10bn, frontloaded needless to say )

Everyone on the dole would be conscripted to work on building the facilities –  still keep their dole – and be paid 400,000 x €50,000 . ( Cost from EU =€20bn)

A fleet of 50 craft would be required, these would take 3 years to build and by that time all this would have blown over. 

10 craft would be sunk each year using Asgard technology – to ensure continuous use of the facilities full employment

[Roger]

(and Belfast to shut them up..)

[Main Street]

Did any of you read a letter from a reade in Leitrim in the Independent giving his "recovery plan" for the economy

2. Reduce the mortgages of those homeowners in negative equity down to the current value of their homes and reduce all mortgages / remortgages taken out cince 2005 by 10%.

What downright complete bullshit.

Argeed , the solution to toxic debt is to write 10% off mortgages and create more toxic debt?

Nonsense,
how does writing off part of a debt create more toxic debt?
It doesn't, it becomes toxic waste.

The mortgage is toxic to begin with because of a number of factors, the first time housebuyer is only one of those factors.

A company debt has limited liability.
A company has debt, too much debt, bank says ah sure lets talk about it, how about we let 50% of it drop but keep it on the books so it's still an asset and the Government buys in and pays up for the value of the asset.
If not, then we will just regard it as written off. The taxpayer might moan a bit but they are too busy moaning about easier targets, the scroungers, marchers, unions and any possible mortgage relief for first time house buyers. 

A first time house owner has no liability.
Can't make the mortgage, bank takes it over and proceeds to sell it for 1/2 the value of the mortgage
Bank will not negotiate with defaulted house owner. Bank would rather take a 50% hit than negotiate a 10% or 20% reduction in the mortgage.
When the best situation for everybody,  the lender, the defaulter and the taxpayer is that the first time buyer is still able to manage rational repayments.

No wonder the taxpayers earnings are being screwed.
When it comes to the toxic debt of lower income groups, the unemployed, the homeless,  most here are in full lynch mob agreement on how the screws should be tightened further on them to save a small % of what is being spent to bail out the toxic debt of speculators and gamblers by their political stool pigeons.

[muppet]

Folks

This country is Donald Ducked:

Citigroup has cut both AIB and BOI from "hold" to "sell" status.Fraud Squad storming into anglo while these two jokers go down the pan. AIB and BOI are in far worse shape than even Anglo but the public's infatuation with Anglo is clouding everyone's judgement.BoI now officially in the toilet ...lowest ever level. AIB also now in race to the bottom

At this rate, my house will be worth more than both of them combined "

Fair play to ya Frank...pint on the counter in Citywest and champers on ice in Mary "The Lunatic" 's room.  (All on the Dail credit card of course  - in the national interest)

Citigroup have taken $45 Billion in state aid themselves and look like needing a lot more.

Here is their stock price over the last year or so.

[Lecale2]

Has anyone else seen this? Unbelievable!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1lmuqy6G_E

[Declan]

Friday February 27 2009
THE best was saved for last. That's when Fianna Fail TD Frank Fahey earned the Order of the Brown Nose for telling Finance Minister Brian Lenihan what a fantastic job he had done since taking office.
After three hours in which Mr Lenihan catalogued a freak show of failure and incompetence involving the Government, the banks et al, Fahey's input would have shamed an Oscar winner.
Never mind the car-crash public finances, the ruptured housing market, the sickly banking system and lengthening dole queues, Mr Fahey said he wanted to thank Mr Lenihan for his superbly "competent performance since he became finance minister".
Being a backbench Fianna Fail TD must be utopian but, thankfully, Mr Lenihan knows most people live on Earth so he was ready for sterner stuff at the Oireachtas Committee on Finance and Public Service. The Usual Suspects were waiting.
Fine Gael's Richard Bruton, Labour's Joan Burton and TDs and Senators including Shane Ross were ready with questions on Anglo Irish Bank and recapitalisation.
The minister began the meeting by trying to cut it short. Mr Interest Rates, aka Jean Claude Trichet of the European Central Bank, was in Dublin and, Mr Lenihan asked, would it be okay to leave early to meet him.
No, said Fine Gael.
"I don't believe it would be serving the country's interests if we suspended our critical faculties," said Richard Bruton firmly. One of the few politicians with a solid grasp of his financials, Mr Bruton soon elicited the disclosure that the bank guarantee scheme is to be extended beyond 2010.
Mr Lenihan then mangled the old bolting horse cliche. "We are trying to bolt a stable door clearly after the horse has gone a bit unruly," he offered.
"More like a casino door," roared Joan Burton. "Because some of those involved in banking and speculation were treating Ireland as a casino."
One was Sean FitzPatrick, the former chairman of Anglo Irish, who was shown the door in November after asking Mr Lenihan to merge his rotting bank with Irish Nationwide.
Mr Lenihan took his time over this story, and his voice slowed as he savoured the last titbit: "I understand he (FitzPatrick) did not think highly of our approach."
Then attention turned to Richie Boucher, the former head of Bank of Ireland's Irish operations and now chief-executive elect. He was most definitely not the top pick.
How did we know? The minister himself revealed an outside candidate was considered but was not interested. It was hard, he added, to find suitable people. "I'm not qualified to pick a chief executive of a bank," he pleaded.
But now he was qualified to state Mr Boucher was the "best candidate" who would bring a "fresh dynamic" to the bank.
Senator Ross was beside himself. "Second best," he taunted. "This is no outsider," Ross continued. "You've got a guy who is the quintessential insider."
At 12.15pm it was over and time for Mr Lenihan to head for his rendezvous with Monsieur Trichet. His answers may not have pleased everyone but at least he had Frank Fahey.

[Billys Boots]

There is a mechanism that has never been used; Brussels has a huge unpatrolled sea border that is facilitating the importation of billions of illegal drugs, the effects of which cost billions (trillions?) to remedy.

So, as Ireland is the most westerly country,  they should nominate Ireland as the preferred base for the European Seals Patrol, establish a base in each of the coastal counties for rapid response and set-up shipbuilding facilities in Arklow, Killybegs, Galway, Foynes and Cork  (and Belfast to shut them up..).  A new rail network would be built to ferry materials between the Centres of Excellence ( Cost from EU = €10bn, frontloaded needless to say )

Everyone on the dole would be conscripted to work on building the facilities –  still keep their dole – and be paid 400,000 x €50,000 . ( Cost from EU =€20bn)

A fleet of 50 craft would be required, these would take 3 years to build and by that time all this would have blown over. 

10 craft would be sunk each year using Asgard technology – to ensure continuous use of the facilities full employment

The further I got into this, the more I was reminded of 'Yes Minister'; good man Dec.  I needed a smirk today. 

[Zapatista]

Joan Burton
She should have let Brian leave as she has done.

She called a public meeting in my area last year. The meeting was about 'anti-socail behaviour & criminality'. There had been two stabbings in the area shortly beforehand. She had her posters up for weeks before and a good crowd gathered for the meeting. She started the meeting with the usual self congratulations and spelt out the importance of the meeting. After she give her introduction she announced that she could not stay for questions as she had been invited to do rte Q&A. We were left in the capable hands of Pat Rabbite and a local low level Labour activist, our TD gone. The local activist barely contributed and Pat (who arrived in his Chauffeur driven Merc) spent 15 minutes reading crime statistics he must have googled before he arrived. Those attending the meeting left as confused as they arrived.

[Declan]

German Chancellor Angela Merkel yesterday suggested that assistance may have to be given to certain countries experiencing economic difficulties and explicitly made reference to Ireland. German officials are reportedly brainstorming on possible mechanisms to bailout ailing economies. An official Berlin source quoted anonymously in the Irish Times today stated that "One has to speak honestly and openly with each other in discussions about individual measures for instances taxes". As suggested earlier in the week, any bailout from the EU or an EU member state would be conditional on fiscal prudence and that Ireland's corporate tax rate would likely become a target.

• The loss of the low corporate tax rate would have dire consequences for Ireland's ability to attract world class multinationals with the cost base still 20% above 26 trade partners. This would damage job and growth prospects into the future. Ireland needs to sort out its fiscal house or face the possibility of losing independence on setting tax rates and consequently damaging the economy further.

[Zapatista]

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