The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[Declan]

The unions has weeks of discussions and couldn't come up with anything, not even a "fairer" levy.  Now they are demanding talks again , a total farce

Were you involved in the discussions Gnevin? Any of the commentary I've heard has said that "agreement" was possible but the Tuesday afternoon deadline imposed by the govt scuppered whatever chance there was. I'm not in a union and am employed in the private sector but will be marching tomorrow because I think that unless we take to the streets and force a fundamental change in our society I might as well pack my bags and family and shag off to God knows wherever. There is something deeply and fundamentally unjust in how the idiots in the government and their backers have landed us in this mess and I think this is a watershed for our country.   

[Bogball XV]

excellent post muppet

[Rossfan]

[I think that unless we take to the streets and force a fundamental change in our society I might as well pack my bags and family and shag off to God knows wherever. There is something deeply and fundamentally unjust in how the idiots in the government and their backers have landed us in this mess  

We should follow the French example. Their government would never try to treat them the way we've allowed ourselves to be treated.

[Bogball XV]

[I think that unless we take to the streets and force a fundamental change in our society I might as well pack my bags and family and shag off to God knows wherever. There is something deeply and fundamentally unjust in how the idiots in the government and their backers have landed us in this mess  

We should follow the French example. Their government would never try to treat them the way we've allowed ourselves to be treated.

Seriously, we're way beyond protesting, we all have to be prepared to take whatever pain is dished out in order to get through this, the blame game is pointless and over imo.

[Declan]

I'm not interested in the blame game BB -  I know who is to blame but I genuinely feel that unless people show that it needs a fundamental change then nothing will happen and we'll stumble on with more of the same. More than happy to "suffer" in terms of loss of income /higher taxes etc but just don't feel that the current set up will deliver anything at all except more bullshit and cliched responses. I re read the 1916 proclamation of Independence today and wondered what exactly happened to the dream of a real republic expressed here : The Irish Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and all of its parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally,

That's the country I want to live in and feel that tomorrow is the first step in reclaiming that

[muppet]

I'm not interested in the blame game BB -  I know who is to blame but I genuinely feel that unless people show that it needs a fundamental change then nothing will happen and we'll stumble on with more of the same. More than happy to "suffer" in terms of loss of income /higher taxes etc but just don't feel that the current set up will deliver anything at all except more bullshit and cliched responses. I re read the 1916 proclamation of Independence today and wondered what exactly happened to the dream of a real republic expressed here : The Irish Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and all of its parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally,

That's the country I want to live in and feel that tomorrow is the first step in reclaiming that

Declan I agree with you. But tomorrow's march is about the levy.

[Bogball XV]

I'm not interested in the blame game BB -  I know who is to blame but I genuinely feel that unless people show that it needs a fundamental change then nothing will happen and we'll stumble on with more of the same. More than happy to "suffer" in terms of loss of income /higher taxes etc but just don't feel that the current set up will deliver anything at all except more bullshit and cliched responses. I re read the 1916 proclamation of Independence today and wondered what exactly happened to the dream of a real republic expressed here : The Irish Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and all of its parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally,

That's the country I want to live in and feel that tomorrow is the first step in reclaiming that

You're spot on Declan, but with total politcal upheaval that's not going to happen - imo we had the opportunity 90 odd years ago, but the ancestors of the guys who took power became corrupted on the way though, yet, the populace were happy to vote for them anyway because of the party and the name they represented.  Being a nordie I'm relatively new to politics down here, but it's a pathetic attempt at democracy imo and isn't (I don't think) repeated (as badly) in the western world.  Btw, Canada sounds good, might look into it.

[Declan]

But tomorrow's march is about the levy.

Initially I think that was the intention and for some it maybe still is muppet but for me its more than that and at the moment I feel that I have to do something so in I'll go

but with total political upheaval that's not going to happen

Jaysus I dunno BB it needs something

[armaghniac]

Tomorrow march contains some opposed to the levy, but others who agree with the need for the levy but who want it fine tuned and other measures put in place.

Anyhow the PWC report on Anglo seems not to have uncovered any other horrors, if this is accurate and reflected in other banks then the situation is merely serious, not terminal.

[Rossfan]

.

Anyhow the PWC report on Anglo seems not to have uncovered any other horrors, if this is accurate

Wasnt the bejasus censored out of it before it was let out into the public arena..
€7bn of a debt which wont be recovered to be borne by the taxpayers .i.e the little people who gained nothing from all the FF tolerated ( if not actively encouraged) shenanigans by irresponsible well heeled "patriots".
If we wont be like the French then all we can hope for is for Germany to take over running the Government's Finances and our Banks for the next 20 years. 
By the way why should I "share the pain" caused by those fcukin' cnuts like Fitzpatrick  and the rest of the "Golden Circle" aided and abetted by McCreevy,Harney,Ahern and all the rest of the crooked swine.

[Hardy]

Tomorrow march contains some opposed to the levy, but others who agree with the need for the levy but who want it fine tuned and other measures put in place.

Isn't that the problem with the march? It's just a "down with this trype of thing" affair. No two participants you ask are marching for the same reason.

By the way why should I "share the pain" caused by those fcukin' cnuts like Fitzpatrick  and the rest of the "Golden Circle" aided and abetted by McCreevy,Harney,Ahern and all the rest of the crooked swine.

Because, while these b**tards have (or were given) the wherewithal to bankrupt the country, they do not have the wherewithal to save it. If you took all their money off them - which I'd be fully in favour of, together with locking them up for a long spell - it wouldn't make a ripple in the ocean of debt they've caused. It wouldn't even pay the extra interest occasioned by the increased rates their spivvery and chancerism has caused us to have to pay. Ironically, only we, the little people they despise, collectively have the wherewithal to undo what they've done. And every penny we contribute will be a real penny, not a CFD, make-believe, funny-money penny like the ones they made on the way up.

Once again it's capitalism, free enterprise and "what's mine is mine" when they're gaining and nationalisation and shared pain when they're losing.

[pintsofguinness]

Because, while these b**tards have (or were given)  the wherewithal to bankrupt the country, they do not have the wherewithal to save it. If you took all their money off them - which I'd be fully in favour of , together with locking them up for a long spell - it wouldn't make a ripple in the ocean of debt they've caused.

It would make us feel better though. 


HOw exactly does the country become bankrupt? Defaults on the loans they've taken from this mysterious world bank in the sky every country seems to be borrowering from?
And what will happen if it does?

[Hardy]

HOw exactly does the country become bankrupt?

Because of the economy going down the tubes because we squandered the economic boom of the last ten years. Instead of positioning ourselves to be ready for the inevitable downturn, we inflated a property bubble, building houses for people coming here to build houses, grant-aiding the building of hotels that are now empty and so on. Now, as tens of thousands join the dole queues and the tax take shrivels, we can't finance the  running of the country and have to pauperise oourselves with foreign debt at punitive interest rates because international lenders reckon we're a bunch of cowboys.

Something like that anyway.

And what will happen if it does?

Ask ten experts and you'll get ten different answers. I'd say the most likely scenario is the fulfilment of Hitler's dream, with the Gremans running Europe at last, but without the concentration camps. I hope.

[muppet]

.

Anyhow the PWC report on Anglo seems not to have uncovered any other horrors, if this is accurate

Wasnt the bejasus censored out of it before it was let out into the public arena..
€7bn of a debt which wont be recovered to be borne by the taxpayers .i.e the little people who gained nothing from all the FF tolerated ( if not actively encouraged) shenanigans by irresponsible well heeled "patriots".
If we wont be like the French then all we can hope for is for Germany to take over running the Government's Finances and our Banks for the next 20 years. 
By the way why should I "share the pain" caused by those fcukin' cnuts like Fitzpatrick  and the rest of the "Golden Circle" aided and abetted by McCreevy,Harney,Ahern and all the rest of the crooked swine.

They are only part of the problem. They screwed up royally without doubt.

But part of the reason the Government screwed up is by increasing the Public Service bill over the years. Instead of making it more efficient they did the opposite. That is not to blame the Public Service workers as it is hardly their fault.

1/6 of Irish workers are employed in the public service. That fraction is rising by the week as private sector workers are laid off.
2/6 of Irish workers don't pay any income tax. That number is increasing with pay cuts appearing all over the private sector.

The reality is that 50% of workers pay almost all the bills. That 50% is going down due to job losses and pay cuts removing more of them from the tax net and the bills are going up.

It is a recipe for disaster.

[pintsofguinness]

Because of the economy going down the tubes because we squandered the economic boom of the last ten years. Instead of positioning ourselves to be ready for the inevitable downturn, we inflated a property bubble, building houses for people coming here to build houses, grant-aiding the building of hotels that are now empty and so on. Now, as tens of thousands join the dole queues and the tax take shrivels, we can't finance the  running of the country and have to pauperise oourselves with foreign debt at punitive interest rates because international lenders reckon we're a bunch of cowboys.

Cant imagine where they'd get that idea