The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[IolarCoisCuain]

Fine Gael have shot themselves in the foot again.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fine-gael-deputy-on-e110000-cant-take-wage-cut-1646893.html

100 jobs went in Bulmer's, not too far from Phil's own patch, during the week. Betcha those bucks would have taken a pay cut rather than be put out on their ears.

This whole country is about exceptions to rules. Fine Gael can't present itself as the party of probity on one hand and then start hewing out exceptions for their own golden circles. Deeply disappointing.



Independent.ie
Fine Gael deputy on e110,000 'can't take wage cut'
By ine Kerr Political Correspondent
Friday February 20 2009

FINE Gael frontbencher Phil Hogan yesterday refused to elaborate on the "personal circumstances" preventing him following his party leader in taking a voluntary pay cut from his €110,000 salary.

His party is currently calling for wage cuts on those earning over €100,000 in the public sector.

Leader Enda Kenny took a voluntary pay cut of 5pc since last October.

But Mr Hogan yesterday said he would not be following his own party's example.

"No. My personal circumstances don't allow that at the moment," Mr Hogan said.

The Carlow-Kilkenny TD last night insisted there was no contradiction between the party's official policy on wage cuts and his own refusal to take a voluntary pay cut.

Voluntary

The Fine Gael frontbench spokesman, who is one of 39 Fine Gael TDs who decided against following the lead of party leader Enda Kenny in taking a 5pc pay cut, stressed that the salary reduction had been a voluntary option.

"My personal financial circumstances don't allow me to take a voluntary pay cut. I'm taking the 10.6pc pension levy and 2pc income levy and the 10pc cut in expenses like everybody else," Mr Hogan said.

"It was a voluntary decision by members and I'm not in a position to do so voluntarily at the moment."

Asked if Fine Gael was failing to practise what they preach, Mr Hogan insisted that: "Members of the Oireachtas and members of the Fine Gael parliamentary party will adhere to the law and adhere to Government policy the same as everybody else in the public service."

Under the pension levy, TDs stand to lose out on nearly €10,000 a year, while ministers will lose out on upwards of €20,000. TDs will also be liable for a 2pc income levy, and face losing out on thousands under the proposals of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission to reduce expenses by 10pc.

Only a dozen Fine Gael TDs are thought to have followed the lead of Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny in taking a 5pc cut in his salary of €106,581.

Among the Fine Gael TDs and senators who are believed to have volunteered a pay cut or made donations to charity are Simon Coveney, Frances Fitzgerald, Eugene Regan, Richard Bruton, Kieran O'Donnell, Michael Darcy, Deirdre Clune, Paul Connaughton and Frank Feighan.

Last night, a spokesman for Fine Gael said the pay cut was at the discretion of each member of the party.

Following Wednesday night's announcement of a 10pc cut in TDs' expenses and the abolition of the special secretarial allowance for ministers, some backbenchers complained that they were not consulted and had to learn of the measures on the news. Some also queried why the Houses of the Oireachtas had not reviewed their own fees when conducting the expenses review.

- ine Kerr Political Correspondent

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[Bogball XV]

you know the really sad thing about Phil not taking a cut of 5% from his 110K, it would cost the idiot about 2.8k or roughly €50 a week - now, if he he's so highly leveraged that he can't afford that he's in big, big trouble!!

[Bogball XV]

I like muppets description of this as the doom and gloom bubble.

If we have the complete financial meltdown that some predict (the end of paper money etc ) there will be war. Tinned beans will be useless because the people with guns will steal your tinned beans.

They haven't gone away you know (why do you think Donagh reckons his gold bullion would be safe enough)

[lynchbhoy]

have to say i am severly tempted to be the Irish BA Baracus or Puff Lynchy
and buy up as much gold as I can get my grubby mitts on.


rossfan- yer a fool , I meant finite natural resources like gold and silver , not fecking water  ! 

muppet - I also like that - will start predicting and keep on predicting the doom bubble to burst soon, and keep going untilit 'does' then go around telling every newpaper and on prime time ' I told you so' 

[Hound]

100 jobs went in Bulmer's, not too far from Phil's own patch, during the week. Betcha those bucks would have taken a pay cut rather than be put out on their ears.

120 in Bulmers.
70 in Kerry Group.

There's a group of people who'd love to have a small pension levy to pay.

All the unions are doing is adding to unrest. The public service are getting a great deal.

[johnneycool]

fuckin hell, I've just read through some of the posts and if half it's true about the golden circle ( or golden shower of c***ts) and how brazen yer man Fitzpatrick was you'd have thought they were invincible, no wait, they are aren't they as no white collar thieving f**ker ever goes to jail, they just ride off to their tax haven and we still think they're great irishmen.

Mugabe should call over to Dublin to get lessons in corruption.


The Celtic tiger is well and truely on its arse. No wonder some German finance minister said Irelands policies were 'wild west stuff'.

[Gnevin]

See the builders unions are  up in the LRC looking for a 3.5% pay increase. Are these lads for real?



CIF to request 10% pay cut
listen Friday, 20 February 2009 10:29

The Construction Industry Federation is to ask the Labour Court to sanction a 10% pay cut and an extended pay freeze for 190,000 construction workers.

Construction employers say the industry has lost 100,000 jobs since early 2007, and that 55,000 more jobs could be lost within the next five months if labour costs are not reviewed.

Wage rates in the construction sector are set by a legal mechanism called a Registered Employment Agreement.
Advertisement

However, the CIF will tell the Labour Court that employers can no longer afford REA pay levels.

For their part, construction unions will ask the Labour Court to sanction full payment of the 3.5% increase now due under the National Wage Agreement.

Unions say that while the sector does have difficulties, the current downturn will only curb excessive profit-taking.

They point out that the National Employment Rights Authority found that 62% of construction employers inspected last year had breached employment laws.

They are counterclaiming for full payment of the 3.5% wage increase now due for the 190,000 workers still employed in construction.

However, the CIF says that with zero inflation and a recession, pay increases cannot be justified, especially since both the Government and IBEC have rejected the terms of that agreement since it was negotiated in September.

SIPTU has called on construction workers to take part in a demonstration to be held in Dublin tomorrow in support of the Irish Congress of Trade Union's ten-point national recovery plan.


http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0220/construction.html

[Hound]

Well I suppose after (among others) the politicians, and the bankers, and the regulators, the unions obviously want to follow suit and also be a national disgrace.

[ludermor]

The builders union are a joke, one of the most militant (BATU) have been fighting amoung themselves for the past year suing each other.
The minuimum wage for a grade d general operative is 14.88/hour, in reality most labourers are on at least a grade c rate of 16.37/hour. I have no real issue with a trademans minimum rate of 18.60/hr but it is a joke to have unqualified unskilled people getting 16.37/hr

[orangeman]

Money markets are not yet back to normal, the head of the European Central Bank Jean-Claude Trichet told the European American Press Club in Paris today, saying that risk aversion remained high.

Mr Trichet also said that the European Commission had been right to begin moves on Wednesday against France, Greece, Ireland, Latvia, Malta and Spain for running excessive public deficits.


The ECB head has warned for years that countries in the euro zone must respect rules and principles requiring them to move their public accounts into surplus in times of growth.


AdvertisementHe has said recently that during the current economic crisis, the EU limit that public deficits should not exceed 3% of output should be respected, while noting that some flexibility is permitted.

Mr Trichet also said it was a mistake to say the euro region had any weak links, and rejected concern about Ireland's position. 'Ireland is not the weak link of the euro area and there is no weak link of the euro area,' he said. 'I consider that speaking of any particular country as a weak link in the euro area is an error of judgment.'

[Bogball XV]

All the unions are doing is adding to unrest. The public service are getting a great deal.

Congress has also published a 10 point plan for national recovery - There is a Better, Fairer Way - which sets out the key elements of the campaign platform. The plan outlines 10 key initiatives to address the current crisis, including:

Protecting Jobs and Tackling Unemployment
The Banking Crisis and the Public Interest
Competitiveness
The Pay Agreement
Fairness & Taxation
Restoring Consumer Confidence
The Public Sector Pension 'Levy'
The Private Sector Pension Crisis
Employment Rights
National Recovery Bond
Further information on the February 21 National Demonstration will be posted here as it becomes available.

Further details here: http://www.ictu.ie/download/doc/there_is_a_better_fairer_way.doc

I had a cursory look and it's a laughable document short on detail, the biggest issue I have is that they seem to think we can devalue our currency (never mind that as Muppet et al say it seems to be doing a good job on its own).  How do they propose we do that??

The above is the unions 'path to recovery',

[Declan]

Jaysus I dunno Bogball - At least it's a start - a discussion document if you like but the areas they talk about that need to be addressed are spot on I'd have thought. whatever about the mechanics of tackling those specific areas. Didn't see where they said that we should devalue the currency though.
What's more laughable is the inertia in the government and the cronyism

[lynchbhoy]

Jaysus I dunno Bogball - At least it's a start - a discussion document if you like but the areas they talk about that need to be addressed are spot on I'd have thought. whatever about the mechanics of tackling those specific areas. Didn't see where they said that we should devalue the currency though.
What's more laughable is the inertia in the government and the cronyism

following on from Boggy and Dec's posts I think its been fairly obv for the past number of years that the problem is that we dont have proper in depth prodecures, policies and then the resultant action required to implement such revisions.

The civil service staffing, its policies, the over abundance of bureaucrats - think of the health sector, the money is being wasted on pen pushers in middle/senior mgt while wards and hospitals are closed/closing due to lack of funding and other hospitals cannot take on the physiotherapists etc they require , meanwhile our surplus of physios who cant get work are having to leave the country.

Another example of lack of proper legal procedure or financial policy is the fitzpatrick fella. Loaned himself near 100 million, but this is 'not against the law' - merely because we dont have legislation covering it.
FFS.
I am sure I and many more of you can think up a lot more examples.

The precedent is still with us and we have gov/opposition and civil /public service all sitting on their hands hoping the country doesnt go down the toilet, as they are all creatively bankrupt to combat this and therefore cannot think of solutions.
the often mentioned 'building schools, roads, infrastructure' projects that are being begged for around the country could throw a lifeline throughout Ireland. Could keep local economy flowing until we sail into calmer waters.
Other measures that need to be looked at are the postponment of aid/money to other countries - sad to say but we have committed a small fortune to foreign aid with not many other countries following suit, and we need to take a 'funding holiday ' until we can afford it.
Likewise the haemorraging of dole monies to the social welfare tourists need to be addresses.
Companies taking on under-qualified cheap labour is still a problem here (thats unqualified/underskilled Irish and non national cheap labour).

It all stems back to the same thing, we need a dail ( and I dont just mean the gov) that can stop being the 'rabbit in the headlights' and think of ideas, start to roll up their sleeves and take into the hard, laborious difficult tasks of creating proper legislation/policies/procedures, taking the hard decisions, telling the unions and sundry to fcuk off and carry on with the task of righting the country.

I dont think anyone has the stomach for this inthe dail though. Its a tough one.  But it HAS to be done some time, and the sooner we do, the more chance we get out of this mess with money making abilities intact.

[Bogball XV]

The devaluation is a headline point in their newspaper advert today to promote tomorrow's march.  

It states:

Government and Employers are engaged in a Campaign to Drive Down Wages, as an alternative to currency devaluation

I just think it's exactly the type of useless rhetoric that is normally thrown out by politicians etc who don't fully appreciate the scale of the problem and are more interested in securing kudos from their voters/members etc.  

You have a point re the govt and their inertia, bt sure every time they try something you've some protest group or another up in arms, from the ludicrous decision to row back on the medical cards for over 70's to the protests over the levy etc etc etc.

[orangeman]

Businessman Ulick McEvaddy has described the ten members of the so-called Golden Circle as heroes.

He insisted the ten individuals 'hadn't done anything wrong' and had no reason to conceal their identities.

Speaking to RTÉ News, Mr McEvaddy said he would have joined the group had he been approached as it was the right thing to do.

He dismissed the controversy surrounding the incident as 'misplaced uproar' and said Anglo Irish was an 'iconic' bank, which helped stimulate the Irish economy and create the Celtic Tiger.

Listen to Ulick McEvaddy & Joe Higgins on Today with Pat Kenny