The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[stephenite]

Can anyone explain to me what effect letting Anglo Irish bank go to the wall would have had on the general economy?

[Hound]

Can anyone explain to me what effect letting Anglo Irish bank go to the wall would have had on the general economy?

There lies the problem. Nobody can actually explain, because nobody knows. All guesswork.

Pretty much every decision that has been made in the US, UK and Ireland has done no good, so its easy criticise. When the US let a couple of banks go bust, it was deemed to be the wrong decision, bigtime.

Of course our crowd do seem worse than everyone else, but thats maybe coz we know them best.

[stephenite]

Can anyone explain to me what effect letting Anglo Irish bank go to the wall would have had on the general economy?

There lies the problem. Nobody can actually explain, because nobody knows. All guesswork.

Pretty much every decision that has been made in the US, UK and Ireland has done no good, so its easy criticise. When the US let a couple of banks go bust, it was deemed to be the wrong decision, bigtime.

Of course our crowd do seem worse than everyone else, but thats maybe coz we know them best.

Fair enough - I could understand bailing out AIB, BOI, Permanent TSB etc. but the reasons behind Anglo Irish are obviously beyond me, I don't buy the 'maintaining the confidence in Irelands financial sector'

[Zapatista]

Is anyone here willing to admit they are one of the Golden Circle that received a 300million gift loan from Anglo? As we don't know who they are i thought someone might admit to it here under the secracy of their user name.

[An Gaeilgoir]

Is anyone here willing to admit they are one of the Golden Circle that received a 300million gift loan from Anglo? As we don't know who they are i thought someone might admit to it here under the secracy of their user name.
[/quote

I dont think it will be long now before it is public knowledge following the greens comments this morning. Also it seems that a government minister is somehow involved in this "golden circle" Enda was asking some fairly specific questions on the matter this morning in taoiseach's question time. According to the news at one he definetely knows something. What odds on a general election before the Easter?

[Zapatista]

The Cabinate are a Golden Circle.

[Rossie11]

Lads/Lassies for my own info in lay mans terms is this the story of the 300m and the golden circle?

Anglo loans 300m to people to buy shares in Anglo with property as collateral.
When the shares start to collapse the banks swap the collateral on the loan from the property which may be worth something to the shares themselves which are worth sweet FA.

[Zapatista]

Lads/Lassies for my own info in lay mans terms is this the story of the 300m and the golden circle?

Anglo loans 300m to people to buy shares in Anglo with property as collateral.
When the shares start to collapse the banks swap the collateral on the loan from the property which may be worth something to the shares themselves which are worth sweet FA.

The loans were given to support the share price. 75 million was offered as collateral per 300 million loan. This has since been written off. The bank was Nationalised and you and i and other tax payers must now pay that bill

[mouview]

Rumour has it a prominent FF TD is one such member.

[Donagh]

On politics.ie they reckon the 10 have E66 million yoyos coming to them in the form of tax allowances because of their 'loss'. Ya gotta laugh...

[bingobus]

On politics.ie they reckon the 10 have E66 million yoyos coming to them in the form of tax allowances because of their 'loss'. Ya gotta laugh...

Capital Gains losses that they can carry forward indefinately until such time that they have any gains to be made on disposal of assets they may realise. I assume this is what they are talking about. 

[Zapatista]

Rumour has it a prominent FF TD is one such member.

Just kidding

[muppet]

Can someone correct me if I got this wrong please?

The dogs in the street knew that famous night something big was going down. I posted here that when I got up in the morning that the Irish Banks would never be the same again. I didn't name the institution but everyone knew who it was.

The next morning no one was more surprised than those who knew something was happening to hear about the Bank guarantee. Like I have said here before I don't work in the financial sector so I needed a few days of talking to those who do to get an angle on it.

A few thought it might work, the rest said it was a huge gamble and most likely a dangerous bluff.

That was then.

Note that the now infamous Anglo year end was 30th September. Note also that the government guarantee was announced on, guess what, the Irish Times 30th September.

It seems now that the day before the guarantee Anglo approached IL&P and asked them for €3 Billion in loans. It appears that the IL&P refused.

Most informed observers expected us to wake up the next day with at least one less Irish bank.

When the Government announced their guarantee of 'certain debt' the IL&P reversed their decision of the previous day and loaned the requested money to Anglo. We know now what Anglo used that money for and it appears that the IL&P were complicit in that act. Independent.ie

Suddenly we had a very happy and 'secure' Irish banking system with Anglo closing up 67% that day at €3.84.

What we are now supposed to believe is that, despite talking to all the banks that long night, the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance never knew about the need for, the request for, the refusal of and subsequent approval of the huge loan to get Anglo out of the crisis that some financial observers believe precipitated the long night in the first place.

From the Irish Times article:

"Let's be clear about this the Government is not underwriting shareholders funds or hazardous investments in banks, the Government is looking at those who lend to the banks.
"We're not in the position of bailing out banks or assisting those who have invested on a risk basis in a bank. What we're guaranteeing here is the lifeblood of the banking system. The system of lending and borrowing that is essential to the successful operation of any banking system," he added.

Mr Lenihan also denied that the guarantee would cost taxpayers.

Since then the Minister for Finance has denied that he was advised to leave Anglo (& Irish Nationwide) out of the loan guarantee scheme.  Independent.ie

He also claims he didn't read the part of the PWC report that would have warned him of the €7 Billion that Anglo accounts showed it had on deposit, which of course we now know it hadn't. This was of course in the build up to the nationalisation of Anglo.

It seems a truly remarkable coincidence that the Government didn't know about Anglo's financial crisis on the night of the 29th Sept and then accidentally solved it for them by the morning.

The crazy thing is that it was the directors' loans issue that brought down the bank, though it pales in comparison to the €7 Billion that wasn't. The Fitzpatrick revelation, though only a mere €122 Million, was enough to send the market running for cover and collapse the institution.

It is amazing how right they were to suspect that it might have been only the smoke to Anglo's fire and they should have known less than the Government.

And they didn't even know about the €300 Million Golden Circle share fraud or the non-existent €7 Billion.

Neither, apparently, did poor BLenihan.

[Rossfan]

Anglo Irish was the Builders(and therefore FF's) Bank. I understand Irish Nationwide were part of  the same stable.
Now d'ye understand why the Government moved to save them ..

[ludermor]

im not sure what you are getting at Rossfan, are you trying to say something