The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[Mentalman]

BOI seemed to be one of the banks touted has having loaned money prudently - but I suppose that's all relative.

Interesting piece on Primetime with McWilliams and a contributor from Sweden. Apparently in '92 their banks went through a very similar property related bust. In that instance the Swedish government offered a guarantee similar to Ireland's. However banks had to very publicy apply to take part in the scheme. Once they did the government sent in it's own people, sacked the boards and upper management, and took large equity stakes. Then they used a range of measures, such as effectively splitting banks in two, one bank holding all the bad debt, and seeking mergers for the other section of the bank. Then when the recovery arrived they re-privitised the banks at a tidy profit for the tax payer. They also found that this carrot and stick approach meant the majority of institutions found commercial rather than state money in order to recapitalise. Of course the big difference being the rest of the world wasn't going through a similar bust at the same time - and, as more than alluded to by Shark, they have a more civic and responsible society - in my own personal experience.

[give her dixie]

Does anyone think that Anglo Irish will hit the wall in the next week if this slump continues?

[Lecale2]

Markets in Asia fall again overnight. Japan's NIKKI down 10%- biggest fall since Black Tuesday in 1987. Hong Kong & Korea down as well.
Surely they can't just keep falling? How far have the stock-markets fallen in tha past month?

[Harold Disgracey]

FTSE opened down over 10%, going to be a long day.

[Zapatista]

NOW, THE NEXT STEPS
FIANNA FÁIL MANIFESTO 2007

As part of Our Next Steps Forward we will:
Lower taxes
Put 4,000 extra teachers in place
Hire 2,000 extra Gardaí
Open Local Injury Clinics around the country
Increase the State Pension to 3300 per week
Invest for the future by rolling out the National Development Plan

http://www.fiannafail.ie/downloads/Manifesto.pdf

[bcarrier]

Its another capitulation day...

[orangeman]

Groundhog day

[Billys Boots]

I've been getting a letter inviting me to draw down a pre-approved loan up to the value to €15,000, every month (for at least the last year) from MBNA.  My missus also gets one (almost simultaneously each month) from GE Woodchester for a pre-approved loan up to the value of €10,000.  They haven't stopped coming this month. 

Folks, in a further development on this one, MBNA rang me at home last night at 8.30 pm asking me to consider taking a loan from them.  F*ckin Nora.

[Bogball XV]

I've been getting a letter inviting me to draw down a pre-approved loan up to the value to €15,000, every month (for at least the last year) from MBNA.  My missus also gets one (almost simultaneously each month) from GE Woodchester for a pre-approved loan up to the value of €10,000.  They haven't stopped coming this month. 

Folks, in a further development on this one, MBNA rang me at home last night at 8.30 pm asking me to consider taking a loan from them.  F*ckin Nora.

take it, buy gold and then by the time you have to repay it inflation will have wiped out the value of the loan and Billy will be sitting pretty - basically what the US has been doing for years

[treborstemme]

IMO gold is quite expensive at the minute.  When this whole mess gets sorted and it will get sorted, gold will plummit several hundred dollars in a short period of time.  Then I hope to invest for the long term in gold.  Im just going to listen to the experts and hold out.  I'm selling nothing and continue to buy!

NB.  I am by no means an expert so take everything I say witth a pinch of salt.  Always seek professional financial advise!!!

[Main Street]

I've been getting a letter inviting me to draw down a pre-approved loan up to the value to €15,000, every month (for at least the last year) from MBNA.  My missus also gets one (almost simultaneously each month) from GE Woodchester for a pre-approved loan up to the value of €10,000.  They haven't stopped coming this month. 

Folks, in a further development on this one, MBNA rang me at home last night at 8.30 pm asking me to consider taking a loan from them.  F*ckin Nora.

take it, buy gold and then by the time you have to repay it inflation will have wiped out the value of the loan and Billy will be sitting pretty - basically what the US has been doing for years

Is that type of loan not inflation linked?

IMO gold is quite expensive at the minute.  When this whole mess gets sorted and it will get sorted, gold will plummit several hundred dollars in a short period of time.  Then I hope to invest for the long term in gold.  Im just going to listen to the experts and hold out.  I'm selling nothing and continue to buy!

NB.  I am by no means an expert so take everything I say witth a pinch of salt.  Always seek professional financial advise!!!

Based on past gold prices in similar times,  Gold should double in price up to  $2k per oz

That is a minimum estimation imo because this crisis is all pervading and worse than anything that has happened  since 1929.

[Bogball XV]

I've been getting a letter inviting me to draw down a pre-approved loan up to the value to €15,000, every month (for at least the last year) from MBNA.  My missus also gets one (almost simultaneously each month) from GE Woodchester for a pre-approved loan up to the value of €10,000.  They haven't stopped coming this month. 

Folks, in a further development on this one, MBNA rang me at home last night at 8.30 pm asking me to consider taking a loan from them.  F*ckin Nora.

take it, buy gold and then by the time you have to repay it inflation will have wiped out the value of the loan and Billy will be sitting pretty - basically what the US has been doing for years

Is that type of loan not inflation linked?

I wouldn't have thought so, especially those introductory loans, you'll have to pay back the amount borrowed plus probably a fxed rate of interest (if it's not fixed then they could manipulate what you repay that way).  Anyway, the suggestion was made in jest, but....

Apparently deflation is what we have to worry about, although with all that money being pumped into the systems worldwide, I reckon inflation could be a problem too.

[orangeman]

Some expert said this week that we had reached the bottom - it seems now there is no bottom !

[orangeman]

How much further down can the markets go?

Spotting when markets have reached the bottom is a tricky and risky process.

Many traders believe in the idea of capitulation, which broadly means a market surrender.

This is when investors are prepared to get out of the market at any price because they have given up all hope of making money from their shares.

It is often marked by panic-selling and very high volumes of transactions.

The idea is that after capitulation you reach a point at which the last investor who is desperate to get out of shares and move into supposedly less risky assets has sold out.

Once there is a widespread belief that the bottom has been reached, bargain-hunters pile in and the market recovers.

Have we reached the bottom of the market then?

It is really difficult to say.

Some people think we're nearly there.

"We have got to the capitulation stage where people are taking the combination of the perfect storm of a banking system in crisis and a global economy that is slowing quite dramatically," said Justin Urquhart-Stewart at Seven Investment Management.

The trouble is, some people reckoned we'd reached that point earlier this week.

Some declared the market was at the bottom last week.

There were those who declared capitulation had been reached on 15 September when the Dow fell 504 points in a day.

Capitulation is easy to spot in retrospect but the people who recognise it accurately at the time get very rich.

So once we reach the bottom there will be a total recovery on the FTSE then?

Probably not. The falls are not just about the perilous state of the banking system, although there are plenty of banks in the FTSE 100 index and they have been dragging it down.

The falls also reflect the view that many of the world's biggest economies are going into recession.

The oil price has fallen below $80 a barrel because it is thought that as economies slow there will be less oil used and the same argument goes for copper or coal.

That means that there is likely to be less demand for the products of the big global commodities companies that dominate the index.

[Billys Boots]

Is that type of loan not inflation linked?

MBNA are a credit card bank, I assumed the interest 'rate' they would be offering would be ca. 22.4% after my introductory 3-6 months at '0%'!!