The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[bcarrier]

There is some contrast between Lenihans decisiveness and Darlings dithering .

There is no choice. This guy is right on ball ... probably caused the collapse of RBS today with his revelations this morning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/

Donagh what is your problem with builders ....the people who really cleaned up were landowners. All kinds of people with relatively modest landholdings on outskirts of villages and towns in Ireland had huge windfalls.

[orangeman]

What the Irish government did, in guaranteeing both retail and wholesale deposits in their banks, may turn out to be something of a model for Europe-wide action.

What we may need is a cast-iron pledge from all European governments that they will fill whatever funding gaps emerge at their respective banks from the seizing up of money markets.

It's probably the best outcome that can emerge from today's meeting of European finance ministers.

[Donagh]

Donagh what is your problem with builders ....the people who really cleaned up were landowners. All kinds of people with relatively modest landholdings on outskirts of villages and towns in Ireland had huge windfalls.

I know but unfortunately those feckers who sold their souls and our environment for a few thousand Euro have gotten clean away. There's still a chance to make the big builders pay - by treating them the same way the small businessman would be treated in the same situation. 

[Donagh]

Europe are going for a blanket E100k guarantee across all countries. Where does that leave the Irish unlimited guarantee?

[Bensars]

Presume it wont change anything in regards to the Irish Gov response. To backtrack now  and revert back to 100k would be seen as a major lack of confidence.

[lynchbhoy]

What is the Gov 'return' for endorsing and guaranteeing the banks ?
Are they charging interest on this 'service'?
Are they demanding (I hear they are) that bank officials pay rates be 'rationalised' and dividends / bonuses cut (regulated).

I also heard that in lieu of the state guarantee, AIB top brass fat cats earned €3million - or paid themselves this?

While I an not fussed on the top brass bank execs to be sacked for negligence etc I would most def like them to have their salaries cut from the up to €3million a year (inc bonus).

The state has to get back some money out of this - some form of 'guarantee tax' that comes from bank profits and the cost not one passed on to the ordinary public bank customers.
will see what happens, as if the gov gets additional money as a result out of this stabilising the banks - then as a tax paying member of the public, the extra money will be the answer to what we need to boost/prop up the economy and the shortfall of budgetary finance available to the gov right now.
Things could work themselves out quite nicely.
As long as the banks remain afloat and dont default (and the gov has to pick up the tab).
Also we need the jobs market to not deteriorate too much more, as mass emigration would cripples us as much as mass job losses.

[orangeman]

Europe are going for a blanket E100k guarantee across all countries. Where does that leave the Irish unlimited guarantee?

Lenihan will stick by his pledge to secure all depositor's money - he can't do anything else.

[bcarrier]

I think the government will make the banks pay a handsome price ...Sean Fitzpatrick started moaning about it at weekend which I thought was the absolute height of cheek.

[Bogball XV]

Europe are going for a blanket E100k guarantee across all countries. Where does that leave the Irish unlimited guarantee?

Lenihan will stick by his pledge to secure all depositor's money - he can't do anything else.

The banks only pay if they are forced to use the guarantee, something that fitzpatrick presumably will be doing shortly (even though he himself feels that anglo's balance sheet is pretty strong ).
Lenihan can easily backtrack, he can say that eu laws prevented him implementing his plan - mightn't help pass lisbon though - the guarantee is for 2 years only in any case so will be rescinded after that.
Several people are saying that the eu is coming into line with what the irish have done but that's no correct - paddy has not only guaranteed deposits (which is fine and as was mentioned by commentators last week as always being implicit amongst european govts anyway), but has also guaranteed irish banks debt, no other govt has done that or suggested that they will do that, it's ridiculous, and it may end up being hugely expensive to us (looking more likely as the day goes on).

[Zapatista]

It would be great if the EU stepped in to investigate the Irish banking system and guarantees. I have no doubt they have broken competition laws but couldn't care less what the EU think of it! However, if they looked into it they might find more than Leninhan isletting on. What was said at that meeting last Monday and why? That would be interesting. Perhaps the EU can hold our politicians to account rather than our citizens having to bother.

[ludermor]

Donagh,
There is a big difference between builders and developers. Its the developers that have taken the cream over the last decade and the developer that has borrowed hugely and gambled. Builders generally build. There have been a few that developed their own and they are the ones in big trouble now ( McNamaras, Elliots, Pierce)

[Mentalman]

Lot of scrabbling going on about the gaurantee. Was interested to see Dick Roche on the week in politics intimate that the banks will only pay for this gaurantee if they need to call on it? Must try that with my car insurance company next April - "I'd like a policy please, but I'll only pay for it after I've had an accident". Also the costings of this cover at 2 billion were revelaed as way off, as at a commerical rate of 3% they should be closer to 12 billion. At a time when the public finances are in ribbons I hardly think that is revenue the governments should be giving up, especially when they have potentially put all of us tax payers in the hole along with the banks.

[Main Street]

On the State guarantee to the banks debts.
I'd like to know if I go looking for 5 mortgages to buy a house for each of my family members but only want to put up my house as unlimited collateral for the 5 mortgages,
will the bank say that's fine - if one of the members defaults then we have some insurance.

[Zapatista]

They want your SSIA back

[orangeman]

Not very convincing news from the the scotsmen today either

They must be playing hard ball with the banks.