The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[Zapatista]

It appears the reason we can (and presumably the same goes for the Danes) give such a guarantee is that our national debt/GDP ratio is very good in comparison to say Britain who firstly have a much bigger banking industry and secondly have a far worse National Debt/GDP ratio. The same applies to the bigger Euro zone economies.

Another reason the Government can give the Guarantees is that they don't have to honour them. We are guaranteed up to 100 000 of our savings. It was a win win move by Lenihan. If the move works it will never be questioned and seen as a master stroke. If it doesn't work then what are ye gonna do? The Government have only Guaranteed it while other Governments have actually invested by Nationalising banks and taking shares. They have put the money in up front and taken on the responsability. The Irish Government have merely given their word. There is no reason the state cannot change their mind as they have nothing invested. Their is no change in those responsible and there won't be.

Banks lend and borrow money. That is what they do. It is not the fault of the builders as they are doing what builders do. By land, build and sell. The problem is with the regulator who over seen all this without batting an eyelid. The banks were at bad practice but the level it was allowed to continue to should never have happened. It was fueled by the bad practice of those who appointed the regulator too. Joan Burton is right about the triangle but she misses the point that the regulator is FF and the strongest players in the triangle.

The big difference with the Irish and the Brits (and other EU countries) is that the Brits will be held responsible for any bail out move and they will expect a return. There is no opposition in the Dail. They are all the same. the Irish electorate are the same too. There is Zero outrage and Zero accountability in Irish politics. We will be told that the only people who can solve the problems are the ones who created the problems. We will swallow this hook line and sinker and return the same gob shites to the same positions. We will say 'ach sure' he's not a bad lad, he done the country some service.

[orangeman]

It appears the reason we can (and presumably the same goes for the Danes) give such a guarantee is that our national debt/GDP ratio is very good in comparison to say Britain who firstly have a much bigger banking industry and secondly have a far worse National Debt/GDP ratio. The same applies to the bigger Euro zone economies.

Another reason the Government can give the Guarantees is that they don't have to honour them. We are guaranteed up to 100 000 of our savings. It was a win win move by Lenihan. If the move works it will never be questioned and seen as a master stroke. If it doesn't work then what are ye gonna do? The Government have only Guaranteed it while other Governments have actually invested by Nationalising banks and taking shares. They have put the money in up front and taken on the responsability. The Irish Government have merely given their word. There is no reason the state cannot change their mind as they have nothing invested. Their is no change in those responsible and there won't be.

Banks lend and borrow money. That is what they do. It is not the fault of the builders as they are doing what builders do. By land, build and sell. The problem is with the regulator who over seen all this without batting an eyelid. The banks were at bad practice but the level it was allowed to continue to should never have happened. It was fueled by the bad practice of those who appointed the regulator too. Joan Burton is right about the triangle but she misses the point that the regulator is FF and the strongest players in the triangle.

The big difference with the Irish and the Brits (and other EU countries) is that the Brits will be held responsible for any bail out move and they will expect a return. There is no opposition in the Dail. They are all the same. the Irish electorate are the same too. There is Zero outrage and Zero accountability in Irish politics. We will be told that the only people who can solve the problems are the ones who created the problems. We will swallow this hook line and sinker and return the same gob shites to the same positions. We will say 'ach sure' he's not a bad lad, he done the country some service.

Spot on Zapasita - we have a long history of resloving things in this way.


Same when you die - you can be the biggest bollocks of all time but in the coffin, ah sure he was a great man !!!

[Donagh]

It is not the fault of the builders as they are doing what builders do. By land, build and sell. The problem is with the regulator who over seen all this without batting an eyelid. The banks were at bad practice but the level it was allowed to continue to should never have happened.

I'm not saying the current problems have been caused by the builders but that Lenihan guarantee will primarily prevent the banks putting pressure on the big builders to start paying off their debt. On the Matt Cooper show yesterday some boy was on saying that five out of the top ten builders in the country are technically insolvent yet the banks are doing nothing to seize their assets while all the time the value of those assets are decreasing. Who else would they do this for?

ISEQ down another 5% this morning already. Anglo or RBS could go to the wall today.   

[Zapatista]

It is not the fault of the builders as they are doing what builders do. By land, build and sell. The problem is with the regulator who over seen all this without batting an eyelid. The banks were at bad practice but the level it was allowed to continue to should never have happened.

I'm not saying the current problems have been caused by the builders but that Lenihan guarantee will primarily prevent the banks putting pressure on the big builders to start paying off their debt. On the Matt Cooper show yesterday some boy was on saying that five out of the top ten builders in the country are technically insolvent yet the banks are doing nothing to seize their assets while all the time the value of those assets are decreasing. Who else would they do this for?

ISEQ down another 5% this morning already. Anglo or RBS could go to the wall today.   

Do you think that was part of the deal last Monday night?

[Donagh]

Do you think that was part of the deal last Monday night?

Nothing would surprise me about FF especially when it comes to the big money builders.

[Donagh]

Looks like the Irish and their guarantee have just be slapped into line by Europe:



Lenihan 'satisfied' of guarantee agreement
Tuesday, 7 October 2008 09:37

Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan says he is satisfied that he can reach agreement with the European Commission on the bank guarantee scheme.

The commission had raised concerns about aspects of the scheme possibly being in breach of EU competition and state aid rules.

Last night, the minister met European Commissioner for Competition Neelie Kroes in Luxembourg.

He said the meeting helped clarify the Government's intentions on how the bank guarantee legislation will be implemented.

The commission raised the possibility of discrimination between different banks operating in Ireland and the minister said he is addressing that issue.

Mr Lenihan and Ms Kroes agreed that these issues should be analysed by reference to the position of such banks in the Irish economy.

They also agreed that steps would be taken to guard against undue distortions in financial flows and the minister said the implementing measures will provide for both behavioural controls and quantitative balance sheet controls.

The guarantee scheme and wider economic issues are expected to dominate this morning's Cabinet meeting and business in the Dáil.

Meanwhile, Eurogroup President Jean-Claude Juncker said that European states will not allow any financial institution of systemic significance to fail.

Mr Juncker said it will be one of the guiding principles for a concerted EU approach to handling the crisis to be agreed by finance ministers in Brussels later today.

[orangeman]

It is not the fault of the builders as they are doing what builders do. By land, build and sell. The problem is with the regulator who over seen all this without batting an eyelid. The banks were at bad practice but the level it was allowed to continue to should never have happened.

I'm not saying the current problems have been caused by the builders but that Lenihan guarantee will primarily prevent the banks putting pressure on the big builders to start paying off their debt. On the Matt Cooper show yesterday some boy was on saying that five out of the top ten builders in the country are technically insolvent yet the banks are doing nothing to seize their assets while all the time the value of those assets are decreasing. Who else would they do this for?

ISEQ down another 5% this morning already. Anglo or RBS could go to the wall today.   

Jesus !

[Bogball XV]

Not looking good for RBS alright, luckily the Royal Bank of Scotland probably have little or no presence in Ireland, especially the north!
I am a bit surprised by that one to be honest, although I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by anything anymore. 
Anglo do look to be in bother, but I don't think you could possibly rule out any irish bank from being in similar difficulties at this stage!

[orangeman]

Will National Irish experience a flood of money now ? The Danish government have guaranteed all their deposits - these are awfullt uncertain times.

Alistair Dalring is about as convincing as a good piss into the wind !

[bcarrier]

Do RBS not own Ulster bank ?

[Bogball XV]

Do RBS not own Ulster bank ?

yes

[Gnevin]

Looks like the Irish and their guarantee have just be slapped into line by Europe:



Lenihan 'satisfied' of guarantee agreement
Tuesday, 7 October 2008 09:37

Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan says he is satisfied that he can reach agreement with the European Commission on the bank guarantee scheme.

The commission had raised concerns about aspects of the scheme possibly being in breach of EU competition and state aid rules.

Last night, the minister met European Commissioner for Competition Neelie Kroes in Luxembourg.

He said the meeting helped clarify the Government's intentions on how the bank guarantee legislation will be implemented.

The commission raised the possibility of discrimination between different banks operating in Ireland and the minister said he is addressing that issue.

Mr Lenihan and Ms Kroes agreed that these issues should be analysed by reference to the position of such banks in the Irish economy.

They also agreed that steps would be taken to guard against undue distortions in financial flows and the minister said the implementing measures will provide for both behavioural controls and quantitative balance sheet controls.

The guarantee scheme and wider economic issues are expected to dominate this morning's Cabinet meeting and business in the Dáil.

Meanwhile, Eurogroup President Jean-Claude Juncker said that European states will not allow any financial institution of systemic significance to fail.

Mr Juncker said it will be one of the guiding principles for a concerted EU approach to handling the crisis to be agreed by finance ministers in Brussels later today.

Considering the Germans have pretty much done the same.

[orangeman]

Banking shares have fallen in London amid news that the bosses of big banks had met Chancellor Alistair Darling to discuss fundraising.

Royal Bank of Scotland fell 32%, Barclays and Lloyds TSB were both down 9% and HBOS fell by 14%

[Donagh]

Text message from La Paz:

"Nicolas Sarkozy, Jose Barroso, Angela Merkle, Tony Blair, Bertie Ahern, Brian Cowan, Gerorge Bush. Can you hear me George Bush? Your boys took one hell of a beating! Your boys took one hell of a beating!"

You know things are bad when they're laughing at you in one of the poorest countries in Latin America. 

[Bensars]

Iceland's government has taken control of the country's second largest bank, Landsbanki.

The bank, which trades in the UK as the internet bank Icesave, is being taken over by the Icelandic Financial Supervisory Authority (IFSA).

Icesave says that it is not currently allowing customers to take money out of their accounts or to put in deposits.