The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[the Deel Rover]

What would happen your mortgage if one of the banks were to go no fear of it disappearing by any chance ?

[Zapatista]

Once this has started they might aswell guaretee them all. It is a 'just incase' promise. Won't need to folow through on it. Puts a big hot poker up the ass of the others too.

[Main Street]

What would happen your mortgage if one of the banks were to go no fear of it disappearing by any chance ?

It's just like the movies, sombody always picks up your debt for a % of the original cost  and sends a few thumb twisters around to collect.
But you might be able to renegotiate the terms.

What you need is the scenario where the loan shark falls dead into a deep limestone hole in the ground along with his black book, the only record of his dealings to be lost forever.

[orangeman]

What would happen your mortgage if one of the banks were to go no fear of it disappearing by any chance ?

It's just like the movies, sombody always picks up your debt for a % of the original cost  and sends a few thumb twisters around to collect.
But you might be able to renegotiate the terms.

What you need is the scenario where the loan shark falls dead into a deep limestone hole in the ground along with his black book, the only record of his dealings to be lost forever.

Problem is you'd need to get rid of the computers as well !

[Declan]

Anyone watch Prime Time last night???
so scary it was untrue - our esteemed financial regulator was shown up for the inept crony he is and insisted that there was no problem with the irish banks and Mansergh came across as such a condescending supercilious dick. Banks refuse to answer questions and govt refuse to a get rid of f the poepol who casued the problem in the first place. In the alternative universe that our golden circle inhabit a CEO of a bank who sufs the web for escort sites has to resign but the people who presided over the meltdown of the banking system get a free out of jail card - unreal.

If I was a younger man I'd be outta here so fast I wouldn't have time to pack my case

Anyway comrade Joe Higgiin's views one it as told to the Daily Mail - Some interesting thoughts if you take the idealogical argument out of it he's spot on:


Like a searing scalpel, the dramatic financial crisis of recent days, and weeks, graphically slices through the tissue of establishment propaganda and cant about how this State, and indeed the world, is run, and reveals the bare truth beneath. We live in a dictatorship – the dictatorship of the markets.

During the ten years I served in Dail Eireann [Irish parliament], I made that point more than once, and to a typical response of raised eyebrows, and mutterings of 'here we go again'. Now we know it's true.

Sure, we get to vote for Councillors, and Parliamentarians every few years. The four weeks of the last General Election campaign were packed with debate, on the economic policies of the various establishment parties. Strong growth rates, well into the future, were confidently predicted, and many conclusions drawn, for jobs and public services.

Now we know it didn't make a blind bit of difference. Because, the hapless politicians aren't the ones who decide. They aren't in charge. The property speculators, and the bankers are in charge. The spivs, and speculators gambling billions on Stock Exchanges around the world are in charge.

Driven by insatiable greed, their headlong rush for private profit dictates how entire economies are run,and dictates the fate of billions of human beings. And now, like the Gadarene swine of the Christian New Testament, they have taken their system to the very brink of the precipice. Which is now where we find US president Bush, British Prime Minister Browne and Irish Finance Minister Brian Lenihan, desperately trying to prevent them going into the abyss.

As the crisis unfolded, we listened to political leaders here, and elsewhere, without being conscious of it, acknowledge who the real rulers are. They said they were taking far reaching measures, 'to send a signal to the markets'; 'to reassure the markets'; 'to restore confidence in the markets.' And if these measures weren't sufficient to reassure, and restore confidence, they took even more far reaching measures to the same end.

So, what are the markets, and who runs them? Put simply, they are like giant gambling casinos. Wheelers, and dealers buy, and sell, everything from coffee, and oil, to 'packages' of mortgage portfolios, and debts of financial institutions.

They will gamble on future prices of essentials, like food, and drive prices up, or down, depending on the circumstances. For the most part, they will never see the products they are dealing in. They are utterly indifferent to the fate of those who labour to produce the goods, as they are to the ability of people to purchase them, They are utterly immoral.

These, then, are institutions, and the people calling the tune. And, like mesmerised snakes, political leaders have been responding. They reward them by rescuing their organisations from the consequences of their inordinate greed. They prostrate themselves at their feet, laden down with bulging bags of hardworking people's taxes.

For the last ten years, the Fianna Fail/PD Government watched, motionless, as property speculators, and big bankers, mercilessly crucified young working people to forty year mortgages, to pay for the monstrous house price rises they had engineered. The Government raised not a finger, as developers walked away with billions, bled from their victims, whose only crime was to seek the human necessity of providing a home for themselves.

Minister Lenihan had the gall to suggest recently that 'we' decided we wanted things this way. As if we were masochists loving the idea of working like dogs for decades, to obscenely enrich a tiny minority. Talk about blaming the victims for the crime!

Now, Minister Lenihan gives carte blanche to the major banks. Gambling with taxpayers funds, he underwrites the fat cats, who brought on this unprecedented crisis. No such guarantees for the thousands of workers, who have been thrown out of their jobs over the last months largely because their bosses weren't making sufficient profits.

The last week has shown, also, that there is no Opposition in Dail Eireann. If you examine the record from last week, which was the first time that the parliament had to debate the momentous events of recent months, and weeks, not a single voice was raised that fundamentally disagreed with the Government's right wing position. All accept the 'reality of the market', and therefore accept being subjected to its madness. In the same way as all will accept what the Government, and Minister Lenihan have done for the big banks.

However, ordinary people should start their own debate. On why their jobs, their need to have a home, and their pensions should all be held to ransom, by faceless institutions in the financial markets, and on the Stock Exchanges . And why instead, these should not be in public ownership, and run for the benefit of the majority rather than the greed of the very few.
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[mannix]

and where would you go declan?

[Declan]

and where would you go declan?

If I was going to stay in Europe - France.
Further afield - Australia

[Zapatista]

and where would you go declan?

If I was going to stay in Europe - France.
Further afield - Australia

Which is completely different

How about ye stay here and hold the responsible to account?

[Declan]

Which is completely different

Whilst they have their own issues I think they are a better option than here.

How about ye stay here and hold the responsible to account?

I've been trying to hold those responsible to account through full participation in the "democratic" process but I believe it has failed me. Bar going ballistic and heading down to Ballsbridge via Leinster house with a weapon I cannot see how the people responsible will be held accountable.

[Zapatista]

I've been trying to hold those responsible to account through full participation in the "democratic" process but I believe it has failed me.

If it is a democratic system it hasn't failed you, it just doesn't suit you. If ye pack up and leave behind all those it does suit, it will be the end of any chance of change and leave a much worse situation. People need to take some responsibility and stop moping about. What kind of place would we have inherited if there was no one left to say 'hold on a minute, this shit has gone far enough'? We have milked the gravy train as much as we can and now that it has dried up we want to leave it to someone else to sort and head of to the next gravy train. The Irish have become worse than locus.

[mannix]

Declan,
i live in france and would not recommend it too highly, its fast asleep as far as business and work goes and you need to be lucky or else transferred to get work here.
I hope that the Irish government can hold the big usa firms there at the minute, its getting to the point of not being funny.
Someone needs to be very bold and take complete charge.
And by the way a 2 bedroom shoebox in central dublin was never worth 650,000 euro in any way shape or form, someone has to pay the price for ridiculous sales like this.

[Declan]

If it is a democratic system it hasn't failed you, it just doesn't suit you.

It's the best democracy money can buy though isn't it .

People need to take some responsibility and stop moping about.

Couldn't agree more and I did stay here in the dark old 80's and thankfully would like to thing did my bit but with the benefit of hindsight and experience I can honestly say that if I had to make the decision again I'd be gone and wouldn't comeback.

We have milked the gravy train as much as we can and now that it has dried up we want to leave it to someone else to sort and head of to the next gravy train. The Irish have become worse than locus.

I certainly didn't milk any gravy train and would suggest that the only people who have done so are the prime architects of our current crisis and in my mind should be punished accordingly. So I'm all for a real revolution but cannot see it happening.


Mannix  -know what you're saying about France and the element of the grass is always greener etc but I was travelling with work on continental Europe last week and the stark contrast in puiblic transport, facilities , prices etc struck me significantly. lI am genuinely sick and tired this morning of this govt,  it's golden circles of parasites and money grabbing criminals, who make up whats known as the "establishment". I'm sick of being patronised by economic commentators of vested interest groups ascribing the panacea for all our ills when they are an integral part of the problem.  I'm sick at the prospect of the pending budget that will target the wrong areas and impose yet more hardship on the very people who cannot afford it.
Other than that I'm having a great day

[orangeman]

263 -171

The big bailout has been approved and the markets like it a lot. Profits have been taken ! The money is rolling again.

[Bogball XV]

263 -171

The big bailout has been approved and the markets like it a lot. Profits have been taken ! The money is rolling again.

don't know about that, some of the drop may be profit taking, but overall dow is down 160 - what I don't understand is why the dollar is maintaining its strength against euro, it makes no sense - i can't see that going any way other than into complete freefall once the implications of the bailout become clear.
As for the money rolling, i don't know OM, I just don't know, this whole thing is so complex that i reckon nobody else does either though!
Luckily, as muppet pointed out - the sun will shine tomorrow, though, with our weather I wouldn't be betting my top or bottom dollar on it

[orangeman]

263 -171

The big bailout has been approved and the markets like it a lot. Profits have been taken ! The money is rolling again.

don't know about that, some of the drop may be profit taking, but overall dow is down 160 - what I don't understand is why the dollar is maintaining its strength against euro, it makes no sense - i can't see that going any way other than into complete freefall once the implications of the bailout become clear.
As for the money rolling, i don't know OM, I just don't know, this whole thing is so complex that i reckon nobody else does either though!
Luckily, as muppet pointed out - the sun will shine tomorrow, though, with our weather I wouldn't be betting my top or bottom dollar on it

I like you thought the dollar would be losing strength instead of gaining. As you say doesn't make sense.