The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[johnneycool]

A few of bankers going to the big house. I'm not sure why it took so long to do this.

Three former bank executives have been given prison sentences ranging from two years to three and a half years at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court in Dublin for their part in a €7.2bn conspiracy.

Former Anglo Irish Bank executives John Bowe and Willie McAteer and the former chief executive of Irish Life and Permanent, Denis Casey, were found guilty last month of agreeing a scheme to mislead the public about the true health of Anglo.

Judge Martin Nolan sentenced Bowe to two years, McAteer to three and a half years and Casey to two years and nine months.

Was this not part of Sean Quinns defence that he was duped by their financial reporting when buying his CFD's?

[armaghniac]

Was this not part of Sean Quinns defence that he was duped by their financial reporting when buying his CFD's?

It was, although given the scale of his investment you would imagine he could have sought advice on the quality of same. The grannys who had €10,000 of Anglo shares for their pension would not have had access to the same professional advice.

[seafoid]

A few of bankers going to the big house. I'm not sure why it took so long to do this.

Three former bank executives have been given prison sentences ranging from two years to three and a half years at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court in Dublin for their part in a €7.2bn conspiracy.

Former Anglo Irish Bank executives John Bowe and Willie McAteer and the former chief executive of Irish Life and Permanent, Denis Casey, were found guilty last month of agreeing a scheme to mislead the public about the true health of Anglo.

Judge Martin Nolan sentenced Bowe to two years, McAteer to three and a half years and Casey to two years and nine months.

Was this not part of Sean Quinns defence that he was duped by their financial reporting when buying his CFD's?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/i-don-t-feel-ashamed-but-i-do-feel-regret-very-serious-regret-1.1276960

Fitzpatrick thought Quinn was a "real 1960s Irishman. He was one of those hail fellow well met, ah sure I will go down there and play the old cards, five or six lads for 10 bob, or whatever it was. He was always producing all that and would be nearly blessing himself. Everything will be all right. He was very human but, I didn't easily like him."
On March 25th, 2008, the four men met again, this time in a room in Buswells Hotel in Dublin. The ongoing fall in the Anglo share price was threatening the Quinn business empire and the bank. At one stage Quinn and FitzPatrick were alone in the room.
"He was very close to tears. He could see what was happening."

[Declan]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/28/imf-admits-disastrous-love-affair-with-euro-apologises-for-the-i/

Mastermind specialised subject - the bleedin obvious

[muppet]

A few of bankers going to the big house. I'm not sure why it took so long to do this.

Three former bank executives have been given prison sentences ranging from two years to three and a half years at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court in Dublin for their part in a €7.2bn conspiracy.

Former Anglo Irish Bank executives John Bowe and Willie McAteer and the former chief executive of Irish Life and Permanent, Denis Casey, were found guilty last month of agreeing a scheme to mislead the public about the true health of Anglo.

Judge Martin Nolan sentenced Bowe to two years, McAteer to three and a half years and Casey to two years and nine months.

Was this not part of Sean Quinns defence that he was duped by their financial reporting when buying his CFD's?

The bizarre transaction happened in September 2008, long after Quinn had dived in.

[seafoid]

US q2 growth is an annualised 1.2%. Which is appalling.

[GJL]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37216176

[Hereiam]

Won't be a penny paid by apple GJL.

[JohnDenver]

Rotten to the core

[GJL]

Rotten to the core

Definitely leaves a sour taste!

[Declan]

This guy was on RTE this morning giving Brian Hayes a lesson:

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/08/30/the-apple-decision-my-reaction/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+org%2FlWWh+%28Tax+Research+UK+2%29

[Hound]

EUR 13 billion owed by Apple to Ireland according to the European Commission!
Plus interest (running at 8% to 10% depending on the years), which might add another approx EUR 5 billion.

Although it does say "up to 13bn" so there may be some exageration built in, but it's a big number.
The ruling also states that it may not all be due to Ireland - parts of it (and maybe a big part of it) could be due to other EU countries and/or the US.

This will be appealed by Ireland, but in the meantime, Ireland has to collect the money due and hold it in escrow.

The reason for the appeal would be that Ireland would claim the letter of the law that existed at that time was followed. If the Apple IP wasn't in Ireland, then the super-profits couldnt be taxed in Ireland.

I think a problem Apple has is they may not have done enough to support where the location of the IP was. The ruling they got from Ireland seemed to place a cap on Irish profits, which may not have been common practice for other companies with similar structures.

Apple used a Foreign Head Office and Irish branch structure, which was far less commonly used than the Double Irish, which seems to be more robust (to date, the European Commission has not felt the latter constituted state aid)

[No wides]

EUR 13 billion owed by Apple to Ireland according to the European Commission!
Plus interest (running at 8% to 10% depending on the years), which might add another approx EUR 5 billion.

Although it does say "up to 13bn" so there may be some exageration built in, but it's a big number.
The ruling also states that it may not all be due to Ireland - parts of it (and maybe a big part of it) could be due to other EU countries and/or the US.

This will be appealed by Ireland, but in the meantime, Ireland has to collect the money due and hold it in escrow.

The reason for the appeal would be that Ireland would claim the letter of the law that existed at that time was followed. If the Apple IP wasn't in Ireland, then the super-profits couldnt be taxed in Ireland.

I think a problem Apple has is they may not have done enough to support where the location of the IP was. The ruling they got from Ireland seemed to place a cap on Irish profits, which may not have been common practice for other companies with similar structures.

Apple used a Foreign Head Office and Irish branch structure, which was far less commonly used than the Double Irish, which seems to be more robust (to date, the European Commission has not felt the latter constituted state aid)

And the Irish government are going to appeal it, so much for democracy - f**k the average Joe!

[Hound]

EUR 13 billion owed by Apple to Ireland according to the European Commission!
Plus interest (running at 8% to 10% depending on the years), which might add another approx EUR 5 billion.

Although it does say "up to 13bn" so there may be some exageration built in, but it's a big number.
The ruling also states that it may not all be due to Ireland - parts of it (and maybe a big part of it) could be due to other EU countries and/or the US.

This will be appealed by Ireland, but in the meantime, Ireland has to collect the money due and hold it in escrow.

The reason for the appeal would be that Ireland would claim the letter of the law that existed at that time was followed. If the Apple IP wasn't in Ireland, then the super-profits couldnt be taxed in Ireland.

I think a problem Apple has is they may not have done enough to support where the location of the IP was. The ruling they got from Ireland seemed to place a cap on Irish profits, which may not have been common practice for other companies with similar structures.

Apple used a Foreign Head Office and Irish branch structure, which was far less commonly used than the Double Irish, which seems to be more robust (to date, the European Commission has not felt the latter constituted state aid)

And the Irish government are going to appeal it, so much for democracy - f**k the average Joe!

No choice but to appeal it. Can't tax profits that don't belong to Ireland. The technology etc that generated the massive profits never belonged to an Irish resident company or an Irish branch.

Apple seemed to have created uncertainty/vaccuum in terms of where exactly the technology was located - but all Ireland can worry about is itself - doesn't belong to us so we can't tax it.

After appeals/courts, etc, if the EU makes us tax it, then so be it. But  at the very least we have to put a show on to fight it.

[TabClear]

EUR 13 billion owed by Apple to Ireland according to the European Commission!
Plus interest (running at 8% to 10% depending on the years), which might add another approx EUR 5 billion.

Although it does say "up to 13bn" so there may be some exageration built in, but it's a big number.
The ruling also states that it may not all be due to Ireland - parts of it (and maybe a big part of it) could be due to other EU countries and/or the US.

This will be appealed by Ireland, but in the meantime, Ireland has to collect the money due and hold it in escrow.

The reason for the appeal would be that Ireland would claim the letter of the law that existed at that time was followed. If the Apple IP wasn't in Ireland, then the super-profits couldnt be taxed in Ireland.

I think a problem Apple has is they may not have done enough to support where the location of the IP was. The ruling they got from Ireland seemed to place a cap on Irish profits, which may not have been common practice for other companies with similar structures.

Apple used a Foreign Head Office and Irish branch structure, which was far less commonly used than the Double Irish, which seems to be more robust (to date, the European Commission has not felt the latter constituted state aid)

And the Irish government are going to appeal it, so much for democracy - f**k the average Joe!

Not that simple. How many "average joes" only have a job because the Irish tax regime attracts so much FDI.