The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[AZOffaly]

1st world problems whinging about the state of a country on the internet! Please tell me he sees the irony in that? Wonder what the 4 million off refugees in Syria would think of that? The old woman in the glass bottle comes to mind.

OK so there are people worse off so shut up and accept your lot.

Yes you need a dose of reality Seanie. Your whinging about the political landscape is pathetic. What have you as an individual done to affect this? You have probably contributed to this culture of cronyism that is rampant in Ireland as we all have - have you ever paid cash only for a job, expected cash payment for a job? Every walk of life in Ireland people are trying to cheat the system no matter how small yet somehow we expect our politicians to be morally and ethically above this. They are merely reflection of us.

You mentioned India, christ on a bike over 1/3 of their population (400m) live on less than $1.25 a day. Thousands die of diarrhea every week. If you think that will change 20/30 years you are stone wall mad.

Everyday I have more positive experiences than negative, maybe you don't I would feel sorry for you if that was the case. The compassion and generosity of Irish people is fantastic, my education was paid for by the government and by one those multi-nationals that employ 1000s and pay millions in PRSI and whose employees pay millions more in PAYE and stealth taxes. My paid for education sent me to WIT, DIT and TCD - how many countries in the world would allow that opportunity. Both my kids were born in the public health system and it was a fantastic experience. My mother spent her last months in the public health system and those people who work in Irish Hospices are some of the greatest Irish people alive, again how many countries support your fight against Cancer through the public health system with fantastic resources(people and medicine) made available and then when you lose that fight that you can die with dignity.

Every country in the world suffers from incompetent politicians, poor decisions lead to war, poverty and economic collapse. No society is perfect Ireland certainly isn't but I will continue to pay my taxes I will continue to contribute and support my local community, I will still donate to local, national and international charities, I will still try and influence my own children to be the best they can be, I will use my vote as best I can to ensure equal opportunity for everyone and for every f*cking kick in the teeth I get I will pick myself up climb that hurdle and move the f*ck on and stay as positive as I can. The only person I allow to affect my life is me.

*applause*

[macdanger2]

While people go on accepting it and taking the "ah we can't do that" attitude we will remain down at heel, tugging the forelock as so often in our history. The sad part here is that it's largely our own fault now for not having the balls to do what's right for ourselves once in a while.

Serious question: what would you do differently - concrete things that would make a difference - if you were elected as a benevolent dicatator in the morning?

[magpie seanie]

The only person I allow to affect my life is me.

[Bord na Mona man]

Problem was we had historically low interest rates at the wrong times - the start of the euro was just the spark needed. So whilst it meant that Germany could sell their manufacturing goods abroad in a currency much weaker then the deutsche mark, we were borrowing loads of said currency without a thought of consequences.

Which is not to say we didn't throw petrol on the flames ourselves - SSIAs, tax breaks on property, boom getting boomier etc

We really should be suing whichever academic body gave McCreevey and Ahern accounting degrees.

The SSIAs weren't such a problem in the end. By the time they had matured, 2006 and 2007, there were already signs that the Irish economy was in bother.
The Irish housing market started to stall around summer 2006 and this was reflected in the official figures by early 2007.
I don't think people ever got to splurge SSIAs the way people predicted in the end. And if they did, surely they were spending hard cash rather than credit?

Maybe the unintended consequence of them was that it caused people to hurry up putting down a deposit on a house in the years leading to up to their maturity, as these savers felt they needed to get the jump on those who were going to use their SSIA to fund a house purchase.

Also, it might be argued that once the SSIA scheme was in place it gave the government the false sense of security that the scheme was a counter balance to some of the more extravagant spending it was about to embark on.

The Irish boom from about 1994 to 2001 was a genuine one based on increased output in the economy. 2001 to 2006 was a credit bubble, especially around property. Many people point out that the Germans bear a lot of responsibility for the free and easy access to credit, post single currency adoption. Very few are giving Osama bin Laden credit for his role in the crash. Remember how jittery things were post 9/11? The Americans lead the charge in printing money and setting low interest rates and the Europeans did similar.

[Dinny Breen]

The only person I allow to affect my life is me.

I will leave you to your self loathing. No one is more blind than a man who refuses to see. If you can't affect your own life then maybe you live in the life you deserve.

[magpie seanie]

So tell us what we should have done and when we should have started doing it?

Have not a lot of time but try these for starters:

Fisheries - totally sold ourselves out with the EU on this, getting robbed senseless for years at huge loss to our economy. could try to salvage something from this wreckage by investing in processing but that will not get votes in Dublin. Oil/Gas - sold the rights for a song and refuse to do anything about it because - ahem, we're "afraid the oil companies will leave it in the ground" Such utter horse manure. Huge profits stand to be made and if it's now or 20/30 years down the line the State needs to get a much bigger slice of the pie. They are our national resources, despite what treasonous politicians did.
Tourism - absolutely no effort has been made until the last couple of years to develop tourism and those efforts are by accident, not by any concerted public policy measures. The boom in outdoor activity has meant local people are demanding facilities and this is helping our tourism growth together with the 9% VAT rate keeping prices more competitive. The 9% rate was designed to get people off the live register so the Govt could be re-elected but a happy side effect seems to have been a boon to the tourist trade.
Bank Debt. This is a no-brainer. Even after the fateful night of the guarantee, we had several opportunities to refuse to pay the illegal and immoral bank debt that has been foisted on all citizens and our children and possibly their children. There was zero appetite for this in the political classes and I firmly believe no effort whatsoever was made to get any sort of write down. At the time, the core nation(s) had an awful lot to lose if we played hard ball but we rolled over like puppies, as we always do.
Zero tolerance of political cronyism/corruption - speaks for itself. The US is a fucked up place but if there is any hint of impropriety the politician walks. The UK also has higher standards. We give them enough votes to top the poll the next time they face the electorate.

I love Ireland and I have a great life. I am lucky that I can just about pay my bills and provide for my kids. I have worked bloody hard for everything I have got and will continue to do so. Lots of people are not as lucky as I am and will never have a chance in a country as wasteful and weak as ours. They are abandoned as the place is run for the benefit of a few. I want a better country and I will argue for it until I can't breathe any more. Since I've been a teenager I have been heavily involved in my community and always will be. I dabbled in politics when in college but found out quickly that I could have no major impact there, given my background and my nature. I am hoping that a new political movement emerges that I can believe in but there is none in Ireland at the moment. I'm astonished one hasn't with all the rubbish we've had to put up with.

So I'm sorry if my "whinging" upsets people. I'm not ready to accept that our country can't be much better.

Hope this answers most of the questions as I have to log off for a while - I'm not avoiding anyone.

[magpie seanie]

The only person I allow to affect my life is me.

I will leave you to your self loathing. No one is more blind than a man who refuses to see. If you can't affect your own life then maybe you live in the life you deserve.

I'm hurt Dinny!!! I thought I was supposed to be the angry one?

Loads of people affect my life every day - I just thought it was an odd comment. You are master of your own destiny.....to a point.

[AZOffaly]

So tell us what we should have done and when we should have started doing it?

Have not a lot of time but try these for starters:

Fisheries - totally sold ourselves out with the EU on this, getting robbed senseless for years at huge loss to our economy. could try to salvage something from this wreckage by investing in processing but that will not get votes in Dublin. Oil/Gas - sold the rights for a song and refuse to do anything about it because - ahem, we're "afraid the oil companies will leave it in the ground" Such utter horse manure. Huge profits stand to be made and if it's now or 20/30 years down the line the State needs to get a much bigger slice of the pie. They are our national resources, despite what treasonous politicians did.
Tourism - absolutely no effort has been made until the last couple of years to develop tourism and those efforts are by accident, not by any concerted public policy measures. The boom in outdoor activity has meant local people are demanding facilities and this is helping our tourism growth together with the 9% VAT rate keeping prices more competitive. The 9% rate was designed to get people off the live register so the Govt could be re-elected but a happy side effect seems to have been a boon to the tourist trade.
Bank Debt. This is a no-brainer. Even after the fateful night of the guarantee, we had several opportunities to refuse to pay the illegal and immoral bank debt that has been foisted on all citizens and our children and possibly their children. There was zero appetite for this in the political classes and I firmly believe no effort whatsoever was made to get any sort of write down. At the time, the core nation(s) had an awful lot to lose if we played hard ball but we rolled over like puppies, as we always do.
Zero tolerance of political cronyism/corruption - speaks for itself. The US is a fucked up place but if there is any hint of impropriety the politician walks. The UK also has higher standards. We give them enough votes to top the poll the next time they face the electorate.

I love Ireland and I have a great life. I am lucky that I can just about pay my bills and provide for my kids. I have worked bloody hard for everything I have got and will continue to do so. Lots of people are not as lucky as I am and will never have a chance in a country as wasteful and weak as ours. They are abandoned as the place is run for the benefit of a few. I want a better country and I will argue for it until I can't breathe any more. Since I've been a teenager I have been heavily involved in my community and always will be. I dabbled in politics when in college but found out quickly that I could have no major impact there, given my background and my nature. I am hoping that a new political movement emerges that I can believe in but there is none in Ireland at the moment. I'm astonished one hasn't with all the rubbish we've had to put up with.

So I'm sorry if my "whinging" upsets people. I'm not ready to accept that our country can't be much better.

Hope this answers most of the questions as I have to log off for a while - I'm not avoiding anyone.

Nobody said our country can't be much better. In fact not a lot of people would argue with anything you've written above.

However, that's a million miles from calling the country a 'lame ass' place, or a 'sorry excuse for a country'. It's a great country, compared to a lot of other places in the world, but it could be better in a lot of areas too. Exaggerating for effect doesn't make it more likely to happen, it just makes it more likely people will ignore your valid points. It's the Joe Brolly effect

[magpie seanie]

I don't think it's a great country when it's underperforming so miserably. You wouldn't accept that level of underperformance from a guy playing for Liverpool - why accept it from the country you love???

[magpie seanie]

The language I use reflects my utter frustration. I accept at times it can startle but I think it needs to to wake people up. 

[AZOffaly]

I don't think it's a great country when it's underperforming so miserably. You wouldn't accept that level of underperformance from a guy playing for Liverpool - why accept it from the country you love???

It's a great country that can be better. To carry your analogy, maybe we are Daniel Sturridge. The way you were talking earlier on, we're Iago Aspas.

[Maguire01]

Syriza really playing a blinder. I wonder will some of our own politicians still be running for the photo opportunities?

[trileacman]

Tsipras as a spin merchant is unparalleled, incredible really. As a leader though he is a sham. Some commented that Europe should hold the referendum again so they would overturn it. No need really when Tsipras is ready to accept the deal he was getting a week ago, austerity and all with no debt forgiveness. Reading some of the details there, siphoning deposits, selling all government assets, cutting pensions, you'd wonder just how much of Greece he'd sacrifice for the benefit of his party.

[Rossfan]

What do Pearse Doherty, Martina Anderson and the Irish loony left think of their hero now?
They were wetting themselves last Monday
Empty pockets can concentrate th'oul mind alright.

[manfromdelmonte]

What do Pearse Doherty, Martina Anderson and the Irish loony left think of their hero now?
They were wetting themselves last Monday
Empty pockets can concentrate th'oul mind alright.

They're going to get a debt write down though

Something we didn't get