The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[Maguire01]

Looking like a total climb-down from Tsipras now, according to BBC website.

[AZOffaly]

there's talk the referendum will be cancelled as well. All talk, no trousers it looks like.

[Franko]

Looks like a bit of a capitulation alright.

Though at least the Greeks fought for a while (with a helluva worse case than we had) before they threw in the towel.

[highorlow]

Who let them into the EURO? They didn't become a messed up place overnight.

Goldman Sachs cooked the books for them.

http://wallstreetonparade.com/2015/06/goldman-sachs-doesnt-have-clean-hands-in-greece-crisis/

[Premier Emperor]

Syriza were all big talk and no substance, just like lots of our politicians were.

[Franko]

Ours were neither, they just bent over.

[Premier Emperor]

Ours were neither, they just bent over.

What have they achieved for Greece apart from bringing the country to a halt?

[Franko]

Ours were neither, they just bent over.

What have they achieved for Greece apart from bringing the country to a halt?

Greece will have to assume major pain either way.  They are in a mess.  Our debt was mostly private bank debt (not like Greece's sovereign debt) which at the stroke of a pen the citizens assumed without much more than a whimper.  At least the Greeks tried to fight their corner.

[Rossfan]

Syriza were all big talk and no substance, just like lots of our politicians were.

"Labour's way or Frankfurt's way....." 
Very hard to back up big talk on a wake stomach 

[AZOffaly]

Syriza were all big talk and no substance, just like lots of our politicians were.

"Labour's way or Frankfurt's way....." 
Very hard to back up big talk on a wake stomach 

That was just a coincidence that they were both the same way!

[muppet]

It is hard to watch a first world European country go through this. The people on the street don't understand what is happening them and why their financial world is collapsing.

Debt relief is the obvious solution, except it isn't a transaction without a counterpart. Taxpayers in other countries including Ireland (€350m) will have to pay for that debt relief. And that assumes it would be the end of it. Which it almost certainly won't be.

Greece, along with Italy in particular, historically couldn't manage their tax collection so they had, as policy, high inflation with its side effects of latent taxation and of currency devaluation. Remember how many Lira a pound bought? This rate was always rising and it was the same to a slightly lesser extent in Greece.

When they joined the Euro they no longer could control inflation or their currencies. It seems to have been assumed that these countries would eventually cop themselves on and be more like Germany & co. It was a bad assumption.

Ireland did manage to get its finances and tax collection under control, but it was assumed that we would have sensible fiscal policies to avoid, for example, property booms developing as a reslut of low interest rates. We were supposed to tax the f*ck out of property if prices rose too quickly. We did the opposite and started lecturing Europe and the World as to why this time was different.

Now we need, much as I hate to say it, the government to pay down the debt as quickly as possible. This might avoid the next crisis. Instead with an election looming, Fine Gael are making it clear they will be reducing taxes, Labour are promising to increase PS pay, and the opposition are ALL insisting they do more!

At the start of the last crisis we had very little debt, that is why we are not Greece. But if it all goes pear shaped again, next time we could be Greece.

[armaghniac]

Ireland did manage to get its finances and tax collection under control, but it was assumed that we would have sensible fiscal policies to avoid, for example, property booms developing as a reslut of low interest rates. We were supposed to tax the f*ck out of property if prices rose too quickly. We did the opposite and started lecturing Europe and the World as to why this time was different.

Ireland did largely tax the f*ck out of property, although they spent that tax and reduced other taxes rather than regarding it as a windfall to be put to one side.

The property boom could only have been stopped by bank regulation and by the people who give money to banks, notably the shareholders and bondholders, having the sense that the single currency did not mean there was a single risk differential between a bank lending in a property increasing by 30% each year one lending into property market largely rising with inflation. Of course they were right, as the banks were bailed out by the Irish taxpayer.

[omaghjoe]

Sorry for my ignorance Muppet but why exactly would Ireland (or any other country) have to pay for debt relief?

Can the lenders not be forced to write off the debt if Greece doesnt pay, or will this affect all eurozone lending ratings and in turn their interest rates?

[Maguire01]

Sorry for my ignorance Muppet but why exactly would Ireland (or any other country) have to pay for debt relief?

Can the lenders not be forced to write off the debt if Greece doesnt pay, or will this affect all eurozone lending ratings and in turn their interest rates?

Ireland IS one of the lenders, along with other EU countries, some of which have lower standards of living than Greece.

[omaghjoe]

Sorry for my ignorance Muppet but why exactly would Ireland (or any other country) have to pay for debt relief?

Can the lenders not be forced to write off the debt if Greece doesnt pay, or will this affect all eurozone lending ratings and in turn their interest rates?

Ireland IS one of the lenders, along with other EU countries, some of which have lower standards of living than Greece.

Ah Ok! I see

So is it directly or through the IMF that countries have lent to Greece?

I was under the impression that large private lenders where the principle suppliers of loans to countries through bonds? Or is the IMF etc also partly funded by these private lenders?

Or am I mistaken that private lenders are limited to the relationship between central banks private banking? Or is there a cross over? (Ireland's recent debacle excluded of course)