The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[magpie seanie]

All our big heroes.

[johnneycool]

Still very little coverage in the Irish media........

Wonder why?

[Hound]

Still very little coverage in the Irish media........

Wonder why?

Irish Times listed 3 guys yesterday. Don't think I'd heard of them and at least one of them only had very small amounts involved. One thing they all had in common was they'd already been published as tax defaulters by Irish Revenue and all have now settled their liabilities.

So maybe there's invasion of privacy issues and libel issues. Its not against the law for an Irish resident to hold a Swiss bank account, so long as you pay Irish tax on the interest earned.

I couldnt find an Irish list on the website quoted above. But in the comments sections I saw lots of complaints about lists being published in dribs and drabs rather than in total and questions as to why a lot of small fish have had their names published and most of the big fish haven't.

[muppet]

Still very little coverage in the Irish media........

Wonder why?

Irish Times listed 3 guys yesterday. Don't think I'd heard of them and at least one of them only had very small amounts involved. One thing they all had in common was they'd already been published as tax defaulters by Irish Revenue and all have now settled their liabilities.

So maybe there's invasion of privacy issues and libel issues. Its not against the law for an Irish resident to hold a Swiss bank account, so long as you pay Irish tax on the interest earned.

I couldnt find an Irish list on the website quoted above. But in the comments sections I saw lots of complaints about lists being published in dribs and drabs rather than in total and questions as to why a lot of small fish have had their names published and most of the big fish haven't.

The largest Irish client had €731m with HSBC. I haven't heard who that might be, and of course he might not have avoided his taxes. But does anyone know?

[johnneycool]

Still very little coverage in the Irish media........

Wonder why?

Irish Times listed 3 guys yesterday. Don't think I'd heard of them and at least one of them only had very small amounts involved. One thing they all had in common was they'd already been published as tax defaulters by Irish Revenue and all have now settled their liabilities.

So maybe there's invasion of privacy issues and libel issues. Its not against the law for an Irish resident to hold a Swiss bank account, so long as you pay Irish tax on the interest earned.

I couldnt find an Irish list on the website quoted above. But in the comments sections I saw lots of complaints about lists being published in dribs and drabs rather than in total and questions as to why a lot of small fish have had their names published and most of the big fish haven't.

Agreed, so how would there possibly be privacy and libel issues if someone was to put up the list of HSBC Switzerland account holders as no doubt they've all paid their taxes?

[Hardy]

But if we assume they've all paid their taxes, how is it a matter of public interest that they hold foreign accounts?

[seafoid]

2 Trillion euros are invested in government bonds at negative yields. This means that the holders of the bonds actually pay to hold their assets.
Deflation is coming. Deflation is going to destroy an awful lot of balance sheets.

And there's more !

Capitalism is banjaxed because markets do not believe Central Banks any more .
There is basically too much debt. And nobody knows what to do

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/86bd4a36-a60e-11e4-9bd3-00144feab7de.html

If you are too cautious and you allow deflation to set in, it is very hard to control," Gilles Moec, chief European economist at Bank of America Merrill Lynch.
The US is not immune: long-term inflation expectations are now lower than when the Federal Reserve launched its QE programmes. The US 30-year bond yield of 2.3 per cent is the lowest since regular US Treasury issuance began in the 1970s and shows how the stimulus of other central banks is influencing bond markets.
"People tend to think of this as a European and Japanese issue but the move down in yields is a global trend. That increases your worry that economies are not responding to all this stimulus," says Matt King, credit strategist at Citigroup.
Negative yields have immediate implications for other financial assets, which use supposedly "risk-free" government bonds as a benchmark. If government bonds are overpriced, then so is pretty much everything else.
"It was less than a year ago that negative interest rates were still largely a footnote in a dog-eared history book about 1970s Swiss monetary policy. Either bonds are mispriced and large losses loom for investors, or we have a big problem on our hands," says Alan Ruskin, strategist at Deutsche Bank.

Borrowing costs tumbling below zero also create risks that could spread beyond the financial sector and become "real" economy shocks. Yields so far below historic norms raise worries about price bubbles across asset classes which could threaten financial stability and test sweeping regulatory changes meant to make the system safer.


"The lower asset yields fall, the higher the probability of a correction and the greater the compression, the greater will be the size of the correction," says Nikolaos Panigirtzoglou, JPMorgan strategist. "If we do get inflation, it could be quite vicious."
"The purpose of QE is forcing down interest rates, that is the policy goal," he says.
The trend of historically low interest rates may be the result of markets' waning confidence in central bankers' ability to pump up economies through the traditional policy prescription of rate cuts. What has alarmed central banks on both sides of the Atlantic are sharp falls in future long-term inflation rates being priced into markets.

"People are losing their faith in central banks' ability to push inflation higher. A big acid test looms for central bankers who believe in the Phillips curve, or the idea that lower unemployment leads to wage inflation," says William O'Donnell, strategist at RBS Securities.

"Germans make the point that QE just puts off necessary reforms. I'm very sympathetic to that view," says Mr King at Citigroup. "We're in a period when investment should be high. People should be saying: 'I can do something useful with all the cheap money and put it into the real economy.' But the investment we're seeing is very disappointing. In the energy sector it is actually being cut."
Mr Borio at the BIS warns that high levels of debt across economies have created a "debt trap" in which it becomes difficult for central banks to raise interest rates without inflicting damage on the real economy.

"If you don't react sufficiently to imbalances, over time you can induce an easing bias, which could end up entrenching financial instability and chronic weaknesses," he says. "At some point, to the extent that debt levels don't decline sufficiently, it could become very difficult to raise interest rates without creating the very problems that you have been trying to avoid."

That raises the risk of an intensified easing war between central banks. Conflicts are being played out in the currency markets, with the dollar appreciating against a range of currencies. It has risen 18 per cent on a trade-weighted basis since July.

Tension between central bank policies is not new but have arguably worsened as monetary authorities have pumped more money into the financial system and capital markets have expanded globally. With interest rate cuts in crisis-hit countries and regions, investors' money has flowed into other economies, including emerging markets, pushing up currencies and threatening to squeeze economic activity.

"Within Europe there is a sense of central banks not being totally in control of the situation," says Simon Derrick, chief currency strategist at BNP Mellon.

If worries about a "debt trap" are justified, the implications for financial markets are potentially huge. Switzerland has demonstrated what can go wrong when central banks try to lift exceptional crisis-fighting measures and attempt to return to more normal policies.
"What will QE do that negative rates in Germany haven't already done?" asks Mr O'Donnell. "Central bankers must be deeply disturbed that investors are taking negative rates."

[muppet]

These guys are stranding in front of a giant creaking dam and talking about how the heavy rain might damage their umbrellas.



There is no stopping it now.

[johnneycool]

But if we assume they've all paid their taxes, how is it a matter of public interest that they hold foreign accounts?

The Brits with accounts are beginning to filter out, so no concerns about confidentiality or libel there although Ed did use parliamentary privilege

[muppet]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-12/central-banks-hungry-for-gold-bought-enough-for-75-dreamliners

(Bloomberg) -- Central banks purchased enough gold in 2014 to buy 75 Boeing Co. Dreamliners.

Governments added 477.2 metric tons to their reserves, the second-biggest increase in 50 years and 17 percent more than a year earlier, the World Gold Council said in a report Thursday. Based on the average price of gold in 2014, central banks probably paid about $19.4 billion. A Boeing 787-9 has a $257.1 million retail price, according to the company's website.

Central banks have added to gold reserves for the past five years, a reversal from two decades of selling since the late 1980s. Purchases will be at least 400 tons this year, according to estimates from the London-based council, which represents 17 gold producers. Total demand for gold fell last year as Chinese consumers bought less jewelry, bars and coins.

"There is a lot of scope for emerging market central banks to expand their holdings as these are still significantly underweight," Alistair Hewitt, head of market intelligence at the council, in a phone interview on Wednesday. "Demand from this sector is going to remain robust."

Russia was the biggest buyer of gold, while Ukraine sold the most as fighters from both countries clashed along Ukraine's eastern border.

Russia's gold stockpile has grown to the biggest since at least 1993 after purchases topped 173 tons last year. The country has been buying the metal to diversify its foreign reserves and solve problems related to ruble liquidity, central bank Governor Elvira Nabiullina said in an interview with Bloomberg Television in Moscow this month.

Gold accounts for about 12 percent of its total foreign reserves. That's still less than the U.S. and Germany, the biggest holders, with the metal making up about 70 percent of reserves.

Ukraine sold almost 19 tons of gold, while Kazakhstan and Iraq both bought about 48 tons, according to the council. Azerbaijan purchased about 10 tons, the report showed.

Gold for immediate delivery added 0.3 percent to $1,222.99 an ounce as of 12:16 p.m. in London. The metal has climbed 3.3 percent this year.

Countries have bought 1,964 tons of gold over the past five years, equal to more than seven months of mine output, as they sought an alternative to currencies, according to the gold council report.

[muppet]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-15/greeks-show-support-for-tsipras-on-eve-of-brussels-talks

(Bloomberg) -- Greece's euro-area creditors voiced skepticism that a breakthrough on financing Europe's most indebted state was within reach, suggesting that any deal with Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras's government will go to the wire.

Weekend discussions aimed at identifying common ground failed to make sufficient progress to bridge the divide between the Greek government and its international creditors, German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said in an interview with Deutschlandradio.

"From what I've heard about the technical discussions at the weekend, I'm very skeptical," said Schaeuble, whose country is the biggest contributor to Greece's 240 billion-euro ($274 billion) twin bailouts and the chief advocate of economic reforms in return for aid. "But we'll get a report today and then we'll see."

Greek stocks and bonds dropped as Schaeuble's comments were echoed by colleagues from Malta to France, signaling Monday's meeting in Brussels of euro-area finance chiefs will struggle to reach an accord. Failure to strike a deal by Feb. 28, when the current rescue expires, risks leaving Greece adrift without funds to keep banks afloat and to pay salaries, triggering a chain reaction that could put the country's euro membership in jeopardy.

"The stakes are high, but I doubt tonight is much more than theatrics," Daniel Gros, director of the Centre for European Policy Studies in Brussels, said in an e-mail. "The real showdown will come much later."

The yield on Greece's three-year government bond surged 121 basis points to 17.1 percent as of 12:15 p.m. in Athens, while the Athens Stock Exchange Index dropped 3.4 percent to 863.65. That's a reversal from Friday, when stocks and bonds rose as officials on both sides signaled some willingness to compromise after an initial meeting yielded little progress.

Talks took place on Saturday between officials from Greece's finance and foreign ministries and technical delegations from the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund. Rather than negotiations toward a deal, the focus was on identifying areas of agreement and fields where both sides diverge, according to Greek and EU officials.

'Touch and Go'
Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis aims to secure a six-month bridge package that gives Greece the time and financial space to negotiate a post-bailout settlement. Creditors say that Tsipras's government must abide by the agreements struck by previous Greek administrations.

Hopes are not high for Monday's meeting and the Greeks have very different ideas to their partners, according to an EU official who asked not to named because the talks are private.

Malta's Finance Minister Edward Scicluna described the meeting as "touch-and-go," saying he thought the situation in Greece was "even worse than expected."

"Partners are being asked for impossible favors with offensive statements to boot," he said in an interview in Brussels Monday before finance chiefs met. A deal by Feb. 28, "depends entirely on Greece," he said.

Austrian Finance Minister Hans Joerg Schelling said the Greek proposals "so far aren't concrete enough" and are "still lacking some numbers," according to an interview on German ZDF television.

French Finance Minister Michel Sapin said there's a "chance" of an accord on Monday, though when pressed he declined to say whether one is probable or not. "The objective is to reach an agreement," he said on France 2 television.

Tsipras Confident
Tsipras spoke with European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker late last night, as Juncker made a last-ditch effort to get a deal, according to an EU official. In a weekend interview with Germany's Stern magazine, Tsipras was quoted as saying he anticipated "difficult negotiations" ahead, though he remained "full of confidence."

Tsipras's Syriza party was elected Jan. 25 on a platform of ending austerity, a partial debt writedown and no more audits by the so-called troika comprising the commission, the ECB and the IMF. While the Greek government has no natural allies around the table on Monday, polls show domestic support remains strong. More than 20,000 people demonstrated in central Athens late Sunday in support of its stance.

"Europe is good at finding face-saving compromises in late-night sessions," said Holger Schmieding, chief economist at Berenberg Bank in London. "Our call is that Tsipras will get real and strike a deal soon, probably with a de facto extension of the current program in a slightly amended form and with a less intrusive follow-up support program thereafter. But the risk of accidental Grexit caused by a Greek refusal to accept reality remains high."

[seafoid]

These guys are stranding in front of a giant creaking dam and talking about how the heavy rain might damage their umbrellas.



There is no stopping it now.

that is nothing compared to the volume of outstanding derivatives

[macdanger2]

Looks like the Greeks are playing hard ball. TBF it's understandable, the level of debt is unsustainable and you'd have to imagine a compromise is needed.

I remember reading a few years back that there's no legal mechanism for a country to leave the Euro so if there's no deal it's going to require some interesting manoeuvres

[Main Street]

But if we assume they've all paid their taxes, how is it a matter of public interest that they hold foreign accounts?

There are no assumptions,
Generally a citizen's banked assets (within reason) would have be in line with declared incomes. And are citizens not required to declare all accounts? Is there not a tax on savings? at least on the interest earned by those savings.
Generally tax avoiders are protected by the government of the day, protected by the lack of due attention. It is quite astounding the amount of pressure that has to be exerted so that a decision is taken to investigate such detailed tax avoidance information, meanwhile we have Bruton ordered to weed out scroungers on the dole with plenty of  resources allocated for the purpose, pennies in comparison with blatant tax avoidance scams.

[Rossfan]

Sponge €1,000 off Social welfare and you're a disgraceful criminal, dodge €3,000,000 in tax and sure you're a great lad and probably good mates with a scatter of politicians.