The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[muppet]

I must say I am sick of Patrick Honohan.

He works for the ECB and so does the Irish Central Bank.

He has criticised the Irish Government and the Irish Central Bank.

He is critical of the Bank Guarantee and says, out of one side of his mouth, that Anglo and PTSB should have been liquidated. But then, out of the other side of his mouth, he says the ECB were in no mood to see Bondholders lose out, i.e. the ECB wouldn't have allowed them to lose any money in any such liquidation.

The Imperial Omnipotent ECB has set up the Irish Central Bank as the patsy, along with our former Government. Honohan, who didn't work for the Central Bank at the time of the crisis, is the agent of ECB in this patsy outing. The problem though is that the Irish Central Bank is part of the ECB. The ECB cannot point to its own delinquent member and somehow deny any blame.

Honohan says the ECB 'was not resistant to sharing its views' with us. That is a monumental insult, which must be blatantly obvious to Honohan and anyone listening to him. I look forward to the members of Banking Enquiry emphatically taking him to task for that.

[seafoid]

I must say I am sick of Patrick Honohan.

He works for the ECB and does the Irish Central Bank.

He has criticised the Irish Government and the Irish Central Bank.

He is critical of the Bank Guarantee and says, out of one side of his mouth, that Anglo and PTSB should have been liquidated. But then, out of the other side of his mouth, he says the ECB were in no mood to see Bondholders lose out, i.e. the ECB wouldn't have allowed them to lose any money in any such liquidation.

The Imperial Omnipotent ECB has set up the Irish Central Bank as the patsy, along with our former Government. Honohan, who didn't work for the Central Bank at the time of the crisis, is the agent of ECB in this patsy outing. The problem though is that the Irish Central Bank is part of the ECB. The ECB cannot point to its own delinquent member and somehow deny any blame.

Honohan says the ECB 'was not resistant to sharing its views' with us. That is a monumental insult, which must be blatantly obvious to Honohan and anyone listening to him. I look forward to the members of Banking Enquiry emphatically taking him to task for that.

http://www.centralbank.ie/press-area/speeches/Pages/IntroductorystatementbyGovernorPatrickHonohanatOireachtasBankingInquiry.aspx

He didn't say anything about how crap the models were (and are).
Or the nature of power, which is why Ireland was shafted.
Or the fact that the Eurozone is missing a credible Central Bank, Lender of Last resort, bank resolution etc
It'll be interesting to see how RTE report it.

[muppet]

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/stephen-collins-why-the-greek-election-could-have-a-direct-impact-on-irish-elections-1.2077538

The SF supporter in the comments section is engaging in Bank Guarantee denial. I wonder will this be the strategy in the run up to the next GE. i.e. anytime it is pointed out that they voted for the Bank Guarantee, which they did, will they deny it and refer to the Credit Institutions Bill that they voted against a month later?

[seafoid]

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/stephen-collins-why-the-greek-election-could-have-a-direct-impact-on-irish-elections-1.2077538

The SF supporter in the comments section is engaging in Bank Guarantee denial. I wonder will this be the strategy in the run up to the next GE. i.e. anytime it is pointed out that they voted for the Bank Guarantee, which they did, will they deny it and refer to the Credit Institutions Bill that they voted against a month later?

Syriza are a bit like SF post bank collapse down south - great in opposition but no idea of how to implement the policies their public love when in office.  When push comes to shove, voters do like their social welfare and health spending and they have to be funded somehow. And that is where the bonds come in.

[muppet]

http://www.bworldonline.com/content.php?section=Beyond&title=how-greece-could-run-out-of-cash-and-what-draghi-can-do-about-it&id=101878

The European Central Bank president controls the last source of funding that euro area lenders turn to when they've been denied money everywhere else. Greek institutions are now clinging on to that increasingly tenuous lifeline, as deposits vanish and collateral runs short. In the event of a political breakdown, it will be the ECB that has to decide whether or not to cut it.

Greek banks, which play a key role in funding the government, lost about 11 billion euros in deposits in January, as anti-austerity party Syriza closed in on its election victory. As lenders run short of ways to plug the funding gaps, Greece's rebellion against the terms of its bailout risks becoming a run on the banks and, ultimately, a sovereign default.

"If Europe is serious about keeping Greece in the euro zone, and if Greece is serious about staying in the euro zone, then I think the ECB can bridge the gaps and prevent financial panic from happening," said Christian Schulz, senior European economist at Berenberg Bank in London. "If that cover isn't there, then Mr Draghi and the ECB are in a very delicate situation." -- Bloomberg


Solvency Test


Money is increasingly tight. Throughout the crisis, Greece has been able to meet its obligations, even while locked out of international debt markets, by issuing short-term bills that local banks can buy and then pledge to the ECB as collateral for further funding.

The government faces a string of tests to its solvency over the next two months, like the repayment of about 2.2 billion euros ($2.5 billion) in bailout loans and interest to the International Monetary Fund, while the trusted route of rolling over treasury bills is becoming less certain.

Greek banks have already reached a 3.5-billion-euro limit on treasury bills that the ECB authorizes as collateral for loans. To make matters worse, tax revenue has slumped by more than 2 billion euros in the past two months, leaving the government more reliant than ever on the banks.

Greek banks' eligibility for ordinary ECB cash facilities, using junk-rated Greek government bonds as collateral, has always been subject to the country being in a euro-area bailout program.

If the government sticks to its pledge not to extend the current program when it expires at the end of February, and the EU offers no alternative, the banks would be forced to replace as much as 30 billion euros in ECB funding directly from their own central bank -- so-called Emergency Liquidity Assistance.


Own Currency


ELA, too, is in the gift of Frankfurt. The ECB will next review the Greek central bank's emergency line on Feb. 4, and can order it to be shut off if it deems it inappropriate. The same procedure takes place every two weeks.

An acceleration of bank deposit outflows "could lead the government to establish capital controls and raise the amount of ELA," according to Michel Martinez, an economist at Societe Generale in Paris. If the ECB cuts the ELA funding line, "Greece will have no choice but to issue its own currency," he wrote in a Jan. 28 note.

In the short term, the ECB could still ease the way for the Greek government. In the past, the Governing Council agreed to lift the 3.5-billion T-Bill ceiling, such as in August 2012, when a large chunk of government debt matured. The condition then was that the government was engaged in constructive negotiations with the EU creditors.

Jeroen Dijsselbloem, chair of the euro region's group of finance ministers met with new Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis in Athens on Friday.

The euro area remains committed to continuing to supplying funding "during the life of the program and beyond, until it has regained market access, provided Greece fully complies with the requirements and the objectives of the program," Dijsselbloem told reporters afterward.

For his part, Varoufakis said his government wouldn't cooperate with the troika, which comprises officials from the European Commission, the ECB and IMF, and is the body that monitors whether the country is complying with those objectives.

If the tone of the dialog deteriorates, then the ECB is likely to tell Greek banks not to buy any further government bills now, as they'd be useless for obtaining central-bank cash. The ECB's supervisory chief, Daniele Nouy, has already written to executives, advising them to invest their liquidity only in assets that can be used as collateral.


Rollover Test


The first test of Greece's continuing ability to rollover its T-bill stock will come on Feb. 4 -- the same day as the ECB Governing Council meeting -- when it auctions 625 million euros of 26-week notes. Non-competitive and second-day bids would normally raise the amount sold to 1 billion euros, which would refinance 947 million euros coming due at the end of the week.

Another key date is the Feb. 16 meeting of euro-area finance ministers that will discuss Greece's program, according to analysts at Nomura including Lefteris Farmakis and Nick Matthews in a Feb. 28 note.

"The calendar is complicated further by the need of Greek banks to roll more and more T-bills as foreigners' rollover rate decreases," they wrote. "There is likely to be more volatility in Greek assets as the market is called to reprice the risk of an ultimate confrontation with Europe."

Do or die time for Greece and economic 'someone else can pay' populism.

It is important to remember that Greek debt is public debt, Irish debt was mainly private bank debt. If they get a deal we should insist on writing off all our bank debt. But that is pie in the sky stuff.

[muppet]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/greece-asks-ecb-keep-banks-212844374.html

Greece Asks ECB to Keep Banks Afloat While It Looks for New Deal
Bloomberg By Jonathan Stearns
22 hours ago

(Bloomberg) -- Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras began the hunt for allies against German demands for austerity as his week-old government appealed to the European Central Bank not to shut off the money tap.

"We're not going to ask for any more loans," Varoufakis said after meeting his French counterpart, Michel Sapin. "During this period, it is perfectly possible in conjunction with the ECB to establish the liquidity provisions that are necessary."

Tsipras, who issued a statement Saturday promising to stick by Greece's financial obligations, is seeking to repair damage after a rocky first week. Bond yields spiraled and banks stocks plummeted after German Chancellor Angela Merkel stonewalled his plans to ramp up spending and write down debt. The Greek leader visits Cyprus on Monday before trips to Rome, Paris and Brussels.

He's not scheduled to see Merkel, the biggest contributor to Greece's financial rescue, until a European Union summit on Feb. 12.

Merkel wants to avoid getting drawn into a direct confrontation with Tsipras and is unlikely to agree to a face-to-face meeting with him at next week's gathering of leaders, according to a German government official who asked not to be named because the discussions are private.

Merkel's Aim
The chancellor's goal is to show Tsipras that he is isolated, the official said. What's more, she sees little margin for maneuver on the conditions of any further support for Greece and is skeptical about Tsipras's claims that he can raise revenue by cutting corruption and increasing taxes on the rich, the official added.

More from Bloomberg.com: The Fed Will Hike Rates in June: Saywell

"Europe will continue to show solidarity with Greece, as well as other countries particularly affected by the crisis, if these countries undertake their own reforms and savings efforts," Merkel said in an interview with Hamburger Abendblatt published Saturday.

While euro-area officials want Greece to stick to the austerity demands of its existing bailout agreement, Tsipras is seeking a debt writedown so he can increase public spending.

The danger is that the Greek financial system is left without funding long before Tsipras's May deadline for a deal.

At the moment, the country has a special dispensation from the ECB because it's considered to be complying with the bailout program. That means its debt can be used in central bank refinancing operations even though it is rated junk.

'No Surprises'
"There will be no surprises if we find out that a country is below that rating and there's no longer a program that that waiver disappears," ECB Vice President Vitor Constancio said at an event in Cambridge, England, on Saturday.

Greek bonds have tumbled since Tsipras's Jan. 25 election victory. Ten-year yields posted their biggest weekly increase since May 2012 and bank stocks have dropped 38 percent.

The French government has so far offered the strongest encouragement to Greece.

"It's legitimate for them to say we want to discuss how we can lower the weight of this debt," Sapin said Sunday. "We can discuss, we can postpone, we can alleviate. But we won't cancel it."

Obama's View
U.S. President Barack Obama weighed in, questioning further austerity. "You cannot keep on squeezing countries that are in the midst of depression," he said on CNN Sunday. "When you have an economy that is in freefall there has to be a growth strategy and not simply an effort to squeeze more and more out of a population that is hurting worse and worse."

Tsipras meanwhile has already started to roll back the austerity program. He asked for the resignation of Emmanuel Kondylis, chairman of the fund overseeing the country's privatization program, and Paschalis Bouhoris, its chief executive officer, a spokeswoman for the fund said late Friday.

The Greek Finance Ministry on Saturday hired Lazard Ltd. to advise on its debt strategy. Prior to the appointment, Matthieu Pigasse, the head of Lazard's Paris office who has advised Greece in the past, said a 50 percent haircut would give Greece a "reasonable" debt burden.

"We need time to breathe and create our own medium-term recovery program," Tsipras said in a statement e-mailed to Bloomberg News on Saturday. "Despite the fact that there are differences in perspective, I am absolutely confident that we will soon manage to reach a mutually beneficial agreement, both for Greece and for Europe as a whole."

[muppet]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0209/678817-hsbc-admits-its-swiss-helped-clients-dodge-tax/

Leaked documents from the Swiss branch of the HSBC bank show that 350 clients associated with Ireland held more than €3bn in accounts with the subsidiary.

Details from HSBC's private bank in Switzerland show bankers advised clients on how to keep money hidden from national authorities.

It also offered deals to help tax dodgers to stay ahead of the law. The bank says it has now changed.

350 people associated with Ireland held 892 accounts with HSBC in Geneva worth a total of €3.1bn.

20 Irish account holders have since made settlements with the Revenue Commissioners worth over €4.5m.

The information came from documents obtained by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) via Le Monde newspaper.

Owning a Swiss bank account is not against the law, however using an account to avoid paying tax is.

The files show HSBC's Swiss bank routinely allowed clients to withdraw "bricks" of cash, often in foreign currencies which were of little use in Switzerland, marketed schemes which were likely to enable wealthy clients to avoid European taxes and colluded with some to conceal undeclared accounts from tax authorities.

HSBC said that its Swiss arm had not been fully integrated after its 1999 purchase, allowing "significantly lower" standards of compliance and due diligence to persist.

It said the Swiss private banking industry, known for its secrecy, operated differently in the past and this may have resulted in "a number of clients that may not have been fully compliant with their applicable tax obligations."

Its private bank, especially its Swiss arm, had undergone "a radical transformation" in recent years, it said in a detailed four-page statement.

HSBC said the number of accounts in its Swiss private bank had fallen from 30,412 in 2007 to 10,343 at the end of last year and it was cooperating with authorities investigating tax matters.

The data was supplied by Herve Falciani, a former IT employee of HSBC's Swiss private bank. HSBC said Mr Falciani downloaded details of accounts and clients at the end of 2006 and early 2007.

French authorities have obtained data on thousands of the customers and shared them with tax authorities elsewhere, including Argentina.

Some of the details of the list have been released before. The names of 2,000 Greeks with HSBC accounts was made public in 2010 and dubbed the "Lagarde List" after former French finance minister Christine Lagarde.

France passed the names to Greece to help it crack down on tax evasion.


350 people with a total of €3bn is an average of €8,500,000 each. This is not your average lad putting away a few quid. Fair play to the International consortium of 'Investigative Journalists'. When was the last time an Irish hack came up with such a story? (Edit - I will withdraw that if it emerges that there was an Irish hack involved, but I am sceptical).

We seem to have 3 schools of journalists here nowadays. A handful of independent thinkers (Kelly, McWilliams etc), those who slaughter the Government every day (until maybe election day - Eoghan Harris types) and those who slaughter the opposition (mainly SF these days - INM in the main). But no investigative journalists doing any quality work.

[johnneycool]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0209/678817-hsbc-admits-its-swiss-helped-clients-dodge-tax/

Leaked documents from the Swiss branch of the HSBC bank show that 350 clients associated with Ireland held more than €3bn in accounts with the subsidiary.

Details from HSBC's private bank in Switzerland show bankers advised clients on how to keep money hidden from national authorities.

It also offered deals to help tax dodgers to stay ahead of the law. The bank says it has now changed.

350 people associated with Ireland held 892 accounts with HSBC in Geneva worth a total of €3.1bn.

20 Irish account holders have since made settlements with the Revenue Commissioners worth over €4.5m.

The information came from documents obtained by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) via Le Monde newspaper.

Owning a Swiss bank account is not against the law, however using an account to avoid paying tax is.

The files show HSBC's Swiss bank routinely allowed clients to withdraw "bricks" of cash, often in foreign currencies which were of little use in Switzerland, marketed schemes which were likely to enable wealthy clients to avoid European taxes and colluded with some to conceal undeclared accounts from tax authorities.

HSBC said that its Swiss arm had not been fully integrated after its 1999 purchase, allowing "significantly lower" standards of compliance and due diligence to persist.

It said the Swiss private banking industry, known for its secrecy, operated differently in the past and this may have resulted in "a number of clients that may not have been fully compliant with their applicable tax obligations."

Its private bank, especially its Swiss arm, had undergone "a radical transformation" in recent years, it said in a detailed four-page statement.

HSBC said the number of accounts in its Swiss private bank had fallen from 30,412 in 2007 to 10,343 at the end of last year and it was cooperating with authorities investigating tax matters.

The data was supplied by Herve Falciani, a former IT employee of HSBC's Swiss private bank. HSBC said Mr Falciani downloaded details of accounts and clients at the end of 2006 and early 2007.

French authorities have obtained data on thousands of the customers and shared them with tax authorities elsewhere, including Argentina.

Some of the details of the list have been released before. The names of 2,000 Greeks with HSBC accounts was made public in 2010 and dubbed the "Lagarde List" after former French finance minister Christine Lagarde.

France passed the names to Greece to help it crack down on tax evasion.


350 people with a total of €3bn is an average of €8,500,000 each. This is not your average lad putting away a few quid. Fair play to the International consortium of 'Investigative Journalists'. When was the last time an Irish hack came up with such a story? (Edit - I will withdraw that if it emerges that there was an Irish hack involved, but I am sceptical).

We seem to have 3 schools of journalists here nowadays. A handful of independent thinkers (Kelly, McWilliams etc), those who slaughter the Government every day (until maybe election day - Eoghan Harris types) and those who slaughter the opposition (mainly SF these days - INM in the main). But no investigative journalists doing any quality work.

Only name I can see there is John Magnier, any others?

[muppet]

Good spot Johnnycool.

Here is the leak's own website: http://www.icij.org/project/swiss-leaks/explore-swiss-leaks-data

I have to run but will get back to this tonight to see who is on it.

[ludermor]

From the swiss leaks site - 350 clients are associated with Ireland. 51% have a Irish passport or nationality.

[johnneycool]

From the swiss leaks site - 350 clients are associated with Ireland. 51% have a Irish passport or nationality.

I see an Indian paper has listed the big hitters from India involved, surprised the Dublin media haven't got the Irish names up yet!!! 

[muppet]

From the swiss leaks site - 350 clients are associated with Ireland. 51% have a Irish passport or nationality.

I see an Indian paper has listed the big hitters from India involved, surprised the Dublin media haven't got the Irish names up yet!!! 

I am not.

I am surprised they even mentioned the story.

[johnneycool]

From the swiss leaks site - 350 clients are associated with Ireland. 51% have a Irish passport or nationality.

I see an Indian paper has listed the big hitters from India involved, surprised the Dublin media haven't got the Irish names up yet!!! 

I am not.

I am surprised they even mentioned the story.

Being sarcastic Muppet!

Another name bandied about is some Kerry business man, John Cashell.

Probably a small fish who's involvement was known long ago..

[Rossfan]

From the swiss leaks site - 350 clients are associated with Ireland. 51% have a Irish passport or nationality.

I see an Indian paper has listed the big hitters from India involved, surprised the Dublin media haven't got the Irish names up yet!!! 

The Irish ones likely own the media here 

[seafoid]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0209/678817-hsbc-admits-its-swiss-helped-clients-dodge-tax/

Leaked documents from the Swiss branch of the HSBC bank show that 350 clients associated with Ireland held more than €3bn in accounts with the subsidiary.

Details from HSBC's private bank in Switzerland show bankers advised clients on how to keep money hidden from national authorities.

It also offered deals to help tax dodgers to stay ahead of the law. The bank says it has now changed.

350 people associated with Ireland held 892 accounts with HSBC in Geneva worth a total of €3.1bn.

20 Irish account holders have since made settlements with the Revenue Commissioners worth over €4.5m.

The information came from documents obtained by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) via Le Monde newspaper.

Owning a Swiss bank account is not against the law, however using an account to avoid paying tax is.

The files show HSBC's Swiss bank routinely allowed clients to withdraw "bricks" of cash, often in foreign currencies which were of little use in Switzerland, marketed schemes which were likely to enable wealthy clients to avoid European taxes and colluded with some to conceal undeclared accounts from tax authorities.

HSBC said that its Swiss arm had not been fully integrated after its 1999 purchase, allowing "significantly lower" standards of compliance and due diligence to persist.

It said the Swiss private banking industry, known for its secrecy, operated differently in the past and this may have resulted in "a number of clients that may not have been fully compliant with their applicable tax obligations."

Its private bank, especially its Swiss arm, had undergone "a radical transformation" in recent years, it said in a detailed four-page statement.

HSBC said the number of accounts in its Swiss private bank had fallen from 30,412 in 2007 to 10,343 at the end of last year and it was cooperating with authorities investigating tax matters.

The data was supplied by Herve Falciani, a former IT employee of HSBC's Swiss private bank. HSBC said Mr Falciani downloaded details of accounts and clients at the end of 2006 and early 2007.

French authorities have obtained data on thousands of the customers and shared them with tax authorities elsewhere, including Argentina.

Some of the details of the list have been released before. The names of 2,000 Greeks with HSBC accounts was made public in 2010 and dubbed the "Lagarde List" after former French finance minister Christine Lagarde.

France passed the names to Greece to help it crack down on tax evasion.


350 people with a total of €3bn is an average of €8,500,000 each. This is not your average lad putting away a few quid. Fair play to the International consortium of 'Investigative Journalists'. When was the last time an Irish hack came up with such a story? (Edit - I will withdraw that if it emerges that there was an Irish hack involved, but I am sceptical).

We seem to have 3 schools of journalists here nowadays. A handful of independent thinkers (Kelly, McWilliams etc), those who slaughter the Government every day (until maybe election day - Eoghan Harris types) and those who slaughter the opposition (mainly SF these days - INM in the main). But no investigative journalists doing any quality work.

Only name I can see there is John Magnier, any others?

If Magnier is in there affiliates of Mr Sporting limerick might be around somewhere in the vicinity