The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[Hound]

the PS are about to hold the country to ransom when everyone else outside the PS system had suffered now for almost a decade.

Obviously you never heard of the 2009 "Pension" levy or the 2010 pay cuts.
The Private Sector ( not all parts) pay cuts/job losses started late 2008
A lot of the Private Sector have had NO CUTS ( e.g Senior Executives, people working for multi nationals.As for holding to ransom FFS - get a life and stop the OTT drama queen stuff.

Ah yes those blasted senior executives! The vast majority of senior executives in this country have taken a salary cut, but they're irrelevant to this argument as they are few in number and the cut may not have bothered them too much.

As for workers in multi-nationals having NO CUTS, that's just laughable. There have been thousands of workers in the MNC sector who have had cuts or worse still lost their job. If some are lucky enough that their employer is going great, they'll be doing fine, but its high risk in the MNC sector as your employer could literally up sticks and leave or rationalise at any time. It depends on how well your employer is doing. The public sector's employer is doing absolute shíte and therefore must enforce wage reductions.

[Dinny Breen]

A lot of the Private Sector have had NO CUTS  e.g Senior Executives, people working for multi nationals.

A lot? Really?

I work in a multinational, I have been asked to take a pay cut in the last 5 years and I haven't had a pay rise in those 5 years either. This company employs close to 5K people in Ireland, that's 5K people in one multinational asked to take pay cuts and not getting no pay rises. Not to mention the number of redundancies, allowances been cut, no over time payments and a reduction in on-call rates.

Prior to that I worked in the Public Service for two years and in those two years due to bench marking and incremental pay my salary increased by close to 16%. 

Both sectors are feeling the pain but to be the honest as far as I can see most people in the Private Sector just get on with it and don't have Unions to whinge and moan on our behalf.

I have sympathy for a lot of the front-line workers, medical workers in particular but as for your clerical staff i.e your Administrative Officers, Principal Officers etc they can f**k right off...

[Rossfan]

My brother works for a well known Multi National and he's had NO PAY CUTS and has in fact got 2 pay rises since the downturn started in 2008. They were asked to keep quiet about it though .
Everybody has the right to join a Trade Union but many private companies ( mainly US ones plus of course Ryanair) won't talk to them or allow them to represent their staffs.
I pay Union dues so the Union will represent and fight for my interests ( same as hiring a Solicitor to represent me in any legal business) and I expec them to do so.
As for Dinny's Clerical and Administrative people who can go and **** off - they have mortgages, children etc and they also support their local shops, butchers, bakers, candlestick makers etc.
Not much worker solidarity there I see. Was it for this James Connolly died ?
Other than put a smile on the faces of oul anti public sector bigots ( Hobbs e.g ) - what good will these cuts do anyone in Ireland?

[Dinny Breen]

My brother works for a well known Multi National and he's had NO PAY CUTS and has in fact got 2 pay rises since the downturn started in 2008. They were asked to keep quiet about it though .
Everybody has the right to join a Trade Union but many private companies ( mainly US ones plus of course Ryanair) won't talk to them or allow them to represent their staffs.
I pay Union dues so the Union will represent and fight for my interests ( same as hiring a Solicitor to represent me in any legal business) and I expec them to do so.
As for Dinny's Clerical and Administrative people who can go and **** off - they have mortgages, children etc and they also support their local shops, butchers, bakers, candlestick makers etc.
Not much worker solidarity there I see. Was it for this James Connolly died ?
Other than put a smile on the faces of oul anti public sector bigots ( Hobbs e.g ) - what good will these cuts do anyone in Ireland?

So you use one person in one multinational to deem that implies a LOT of Private Sector Workers.

I used i.e. so was explicit when I mentioned AOs (Local Authorities) and POs (Civil Service), their salaries range from 50K to 100K. This are administrative clerical roles, they are not performance related and are a job for life with an excellent pension. I have worked 4 year in the Public Service, the amount of dead wood in highly paid positions is criminal.

I am not a socialist.

[Declan]

The ironic thing about the austerity fetishists is that anyone who has been following the Reinhart-Rogoff fiasco will know now that the whole basic premise has been disproven and that the public deficit doesn't inhibit growth.

Anway in today's news Richie and the rest of the BOI execs go merrily on their way with our governments blessing - great little countrry

[Rossfan]

Ah yes those blasted senior executives!.
It depends on how well your employer is doing. The public sector's employer is doing absolute shíte and therefore must enforce wage reductions.

Obviously this doesn't apply to Bank of Ireland 

(highlights are by me)
A vote on the remuneration package for Bank of Ireland chief Richie Boucher will take place this evening at the bank's AGM.

Mr Boucher was paid more than €840,000, despite the bank suffering losses of more than €2bn.
In the Dáil earlier the Taoiseach said he expects bank chiefs to take a significant cut when they respond to government calls on them to reduce their cost base by between 6% and 10%.

However Finance Minister Michael Noonan is to abstain from voting on Mr. Boucher's pay package at today's Annual General Meeting

[whiskeysteve]

we can all cherry pick rossfan



TV3 presenters get 40-50k per year

[highorlow]

Obviously you never heard of the 2009 "Pension" levy or the 2010 pay cuts.
The Private Sector ( not all parts) pay cuts/job losses started late 2008
A lot of the Private Sector have had NO CUTS ( e.g Senior Executives, people working for multi nationals.
As for holding to ransom FFS - get a life and stop the OTT drama queen stuff.

This pension levy is always pushed out as an actual cut when it isn't. It's a levy to pay for the fat PS pensions so when a teacher, guard, civil servant or nurse happily retires around 55 with a full service pension they can afford to go into the farming, football management, coaching, journalism, tv, politics or golf full time when they retire rather than the part time operations that most of them carry on with while they are in the PS (so much spare time on their hands).

Your right with a PS gearing up to go on strike unless they get their way, this couldn't be called holding the country to ransom, it's just their unions way of doing things which they would regard as bargaining.

The DOF should increase the across the board cut to those above 65k to 15% and reduce the cut to 4% for those below 65k.

They should further implement a wealth tax on anyone over €130k, public or private sector.

[Rossfan]

If I got €100 last week and €90 this week that's a pay cut as I have less money to give Tesco LIDL at the checkout.
The so called pension levy was simply a device to avoid using the word pay cut dreamed up by a Union Executive.
It is simply a saving to the exchequer and is not used for paying pensions to anyone , fat or thin.
Ask the Dept of Finance if you wish.
Civil Servants can't retire till at least 60 - 65 or 66 for entrants after 1995.
Only Gardai/Soldiers and full time firemen can retire earlier.
As for your other oul cliched stereotyping comments... you're just another oul anti public service bigot.
Dinny -for your info

"Grade 7 Administrative Officer, Senior Executive Librarian
47,013 - 48,187 - 49,559 - 50,935 - 52,313 - 53,541 - 54,800 - 56,020 - 57,235 - 59,3221 - 61,4182"
The last 2 amounts are reached after  11 and 14 years service at that rank.

[Rossfan]

The ironic thing about the austerity fetishists is that anyone who has been following the Reinhart-Rogoff fiasco will know now that the whole basic premise has been disproven and that the public deficit doesn't inhibit growth.

The whole Austerity thingy is the ECB/Bundesbank's way of teaching the untermensch their place i.e bail us out and then cut everything to pay for it.

[Dinny Breen]

If I got €100 last week and €90 this week that's a pay cut as I have less money to give Tesco LIDL at the checkout.
The so called pension levy was simply a device to avoid using the word pay cut dreamed up by a Union Executive.
It is simply a saving to the exchequer and is not used for paying pensions to anyone , fat or thin.
Ask the Dept of Finance if you wish.
Civil Servants can't retire till at least 60 - 65 or 66 for entrants after 1995.
Only Gardai/Soldiers and full time firemen can retire earlier.
As for your other oul cliched stereotyping comments... you're just another oul anti public service bigot.
Dinny -for your info

"Grade 7 Administrative Officer, Senior Executive Librarian
47,013 - 48,187 - 49,559 - 50,935 - 52,313 - 53,541 - 54,800 - 56,020 - 57,235 - 59,3221 - 61,4182"
The last 2 amounts are reached after  11 and 14 years service at that rank.

Sorry I was 3K euro off on the "entry scale point" which you only start on if your currently salary is less, somehow I doubt many Senior Staff Officers, the grade below, are coming in on €47k.

[highorlow]

As for your other oul cliched stereotyping comments... you're just another oul anti public service bigot.

Why do you have to keep personalizing your arguments? Stick to the points detailed and try and come to some solutions rather than constantly making a fool of yourself. Some FACTS are listed below in relation to pensions. If I was given those same guarantees and conditions on retirement by my employer in the morning in return for a levy not only would I accept but I would leave work early on the day to celebrate (if i was allowed the time). 

"Those who joined the public service before 1995 have to make a contribution to their basic pension of between zero and 3.5pc. Those who joined after 1995 make a 5pc contribution, but they were given a special 5pc pay rise to take account of this, meaning that they suffered no net loss.
The Government is bringing in a new pensions levy for all public sector workers. It will apply on a graded basis with public sector workers on higher salaries contributing more and those on lower incomes contributing less. It will account for the bulk of the €1.4bn in savings from this year's payroll. Although public sector workers will continue to earn the same, their take home pay will drop.

All public servants can look forward to a pension of 50pc of final income, as well as a tax-free lump sum of 150pc of their salary when they retire.

Those who joined before April 1, 2004 can retire at the age of 60 on a full pension, but those who joined after that date can only retire at 65. There are exceptions for gardai, firefighters, and the Defence Forces.

All public sector pensions are guaranteed by the State whereas private sector pensions are not (as workers in Waterford Crystal have found out). Due to their "defined benefit" schemes, public sector workers are guaranteed 50pc of their final salary when they retire. Many private sector workers are on "defined contribution" schemes which don't provide a guaranteed level of retirement income."


In relation to my comments on the part time payed work that the teachers, guards, firefighters and army lads do I don't have to list names out when it comes to this GAABOARD site as all one has to do is either switch on the Sunday Game or ........

[Billys Boots]

Why do you have to keep personalizing your arguments?

Oh but he doesn't ... according to himself.

[Declan]

I am not a socialist.

Had you pegged all wrong Dinny

[armaghniac]

"Those who joined the public service before 1995 have to make a contribution to their basic pension of between zero and 3.5pc. Those who joined after 1995 make a 5pc contribution, but they were given a special 5pc pay rise to take account of this, meaning that they suffered no net loss.

This is true and not especially remarkable.

A lot of the Private Sector have had NO CUTS  e.g Senior Executives, people working for multi nationals.

While there are always examples of particular situations, and situations differ greatly, private sector pay in aggregate is now slightly higher than in 2008 and increasing.