The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[Orangemac]

I think we have turned the corner.

However these people think otherwise (they back up their assertion): http://bondwatchireland.blogspot.com/

Lucky there is a great investigative media in Ireland who are covering and questioning this on a regular basis. In between covering the presidency and lobbying for neg equity bail outs.

The deficit needs to reduced but there are better ways to do it than continually hitting ordinary workers disposable income.Colm McCarthys An Bord Snip report is sitting gathering dust somewhere not to mention money being wasted in local councils and in universities under the auspices of the smart economy.

Earners over 100k need to be taxed more also. Isn't there a large bond repayment due in 2014? If Ireland could get to a manageable deficit by then they could tell these bondholders to go f*** themselves then as they should be able to borrow any money needed by then.

[blast05]

I think we have turned the corner.

However these people think otherwise (they back up their assertion): http://bondwatchireland.blogspot.com/

Well our current account surplus (exports minus imports) is running at about 40 billion. We're borrowing about 20 billion a year. So as a country as a whole (private and public) we're exporting about 20 billion a year to the rest of the world.

[Rois]

NAMA prog on RTE at the mo

[Rossfan]

Did ye ever see anything like the cheek and arrogance of a couple of those Developer cnuts who were on that programme last night.
One lad wants his debts forgiven so they can get back to business again while another one of them says that Ireland needs the "property industry" going again to get out of the slump.

FFS it's the f***in c***in property trade (it's not an industry) that got us into the mess we're in.
These a****oles just don't or won't get it will they?

[Rois]

Did ye ever see anything like the cheek and arrogance of a couple of those Developer cnuts who were on that programme last night.

The guy from Glenkerrin really riled me - said that they were lucky, they were a young company but would have to develop out of Ireland now, and that if they came back and made money, that they'd have to apply it to the outstanding debt.  Er - yes! 

[Orangemac]

Did ye ever see anything like the cheek and arrogance of a couple of those Developer cnuts who were on that programme last night.
One lad wants his debts forgiven so they can get back to business again while another one of them says that Ireland needs the "property industry" going again to get out of the slump.

FFS it's the f***in c***in property trade (it's not an industry) that got us into the mess we're in.
These a****oles just don't or won't get it will they?

Unfortunately for these guys there are over 200k vacant houses in Ireland and god knows how many industrial units. It will be 2/3 years before there is any inroads made into this oversupply. Construction was something like 16% of the economy during the peak of the boom,those days are gone forever.

[seafoid]

Martin Wolf in the FT says it is time for borrowing to provide investment to get people back to work .
The Germans are wrong.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/9cbe577a-d872-11e0-8f0a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1XIrqiBdf

[FermGael]

End game???

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14913517

Commission president Barroso to put forward eurobonds

European Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso has said he will put forward moves to tackle the eurozone debt crisis, which he called "the most serious challenge of a generation".

He said he would urge the 17 eurozone nations to issue joint bonds, allowing them to borrow money collectively.
Eurobonds have been backed by Italian Finance Minister Giulio Tremonti and investor George Soros.

However, Germany has repeatedly expressed its opposition to the idea.

His comments came ahead of an emergency conference call between German Chancellor Angela Merkel, French President Nicolas Sarkozy and Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou due later on Wednesday.

The three are expected to discuss how to address recent market turmoil, prompted by fears of an imminent Greek debt default.

"I want to confirm that the Commission will soon present options for the introduction of eurobonds," he said.

"Some of these could be implemented within the terms of the current treaty, and others would require treaty changes."

However, Mr Barroso emphasised that the measure on its own was not enough to solve the eurozone debt crisis.

Speaking to the European Parliament, Mr Barroso said that the political process in the eurozone - dominated as it is by the heads of the 17 member governments - was too slow for impatient markets.

He argued that the solution to the crisis would have to involve the "Community method" - implying more centralised decision-making.

'Interesting development'

Meanwhile, in a surprise reversal of traditional roles, five big developing countries are to discuss providing financial support to Europe.

The leaders of Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa (BRICS) are to meet at the annual World Bank and International Monetary Fund (IMF) summit next week, according to Brazilian finance minister Guido Mantega.

Christine Lagarde, head of the IMF, called it an "interesting development" and "acceptable hypothesis" for the Fund.

"But if they limit themselves to buying bonds deemed safe by everyone, like the German and British, they wouldn't be taking much risk," she told Italian newspaper La Stampa.

"My hope is that if interventions like this take place, that they'll be large and not limited to certain states."

China's president, Wen Jiabao, said that his country stood ready to help, but only if the eurozone got its act together.

"The governments of all countries must truly shoulder their responsibilities and deal properly with their own affairs," he said, speaking at the World Economic Forum at Dalian in China

[Denn Forever]

What is the current opinion n this guy? 

US Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has told euro zone ministers at a meeting in Poland that they should end loose talk about a euro zone break-up. 
-
He urged them to work more closely with the European Central Bank to tackle the debt crisis. 
-
He was speaking after discussing the possibility of expanding the euro zone's bail-out fund. 
-
Austria's finance minister Maria Fekter later told reporters Mr Geithner had ruled out the idea of a tax on financial transactions.

[muppet]

What is the current opinion n this guy? 

US Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has told euro zone ministers at a meeting in Poland that they should end loose talk about a euro zone break-up. 
-
He urged them to work more closely with the European Central Bank to tackle the debt crisis. 
-
He was speaking after discussing the possibility of expanding the euro zone's bail-out fund. 
-
Austria's finance minister Maria Fekter later told reporters Mr Geithner had ruled out the idea of a tax on financial transactions.

He is here because the ECB fan is spreading the shit far and wide.  He is the gatekeeper of US interests and is a very capable individual. However he was head of the New York Fed (equivalent of the Central Bank) while Wall Street ran amok in the run up to Lehman's collapse.

[Orangemac]

What is the current opinion n this guy? 

US Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has told euro zone ministers at a meeting in Poland that they should end loose talk about a euro zone break-up. 
-
He urged them to work more closely with the European Central Bank to tackle the debt crisis. 
-
He was speaking after discussing the possibility of expanding the euro zone's bail-out fund. 
-
Austria's finance minister Maria Fekter later told reporters Mr Geithner had ruled out the idea of a tax on financial transactions.

Was it this guy who advised IMF/ECB that senior bondholders could not be burned by Irish gov during original bailout talks?

[muppet]

What is the current opinion n this guy? 

US Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has told euro zone ministers at a meeting in Poland that they should end loose talk about a euro zone break-up. 
-
He urged them to work more closely with the European Central Bank to tackle the debt crisis. 
-
He was speaking after discussing the possibility of expanding the euro zone's bail-out fund. 
-
Austria's finance minister Maria Fekter later told reporters Mr Geithner had ruled out the idea of a tax on financial transactions.

Was it this guy who advised IMF/ECB that senior bondholders could not be burned by Irish gov during original bailout talks?

It was he, but it was more recently. He represents the interests of his country, including those holding Irish bonds. He is hardly going to advise burning his own.

[muppet]

http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/09/they-havent-a-clue/

They haven't a clue

by Golem XIV on SEPTEMBER 14, 2011 in LATEST
Do you ever get the feeling our leaders don't know what the hell they're doing?

The Finns want collateral. Mr Barroso at the Commission wants to sell Euro Bonds. The Germans don't. The Greek people want to default. The French banks are desperate that they don't. Tim Geithner wants Europe to follow America's lead and create a super expanded bail out fund like America's TARP. The Austrian parliament declined to fast track the idea through their parliament. No one is sure if this is Austrian pedantry or a refusal.  In the UK the long awaited Vickers report on Bank 'reform' is welcomed and given a timetable of ...2019...because obviously when you're in a crisis you don't want to hurry.

In Italy austerity plan 1 was passed and then eaten by 'special interests' till there was nothing left. The 'perfectly well capitalized' Italian banks who had disdained raising cash earlier suddenly began an accelerated kind of rot so that they seemed to crumble in on themselves life a leper with a failed face lift.

As fast as our leaders plan to put money in to the banks, depositors, especially large financial institutions and other European banks are taking their money out (100 billion euros have left Italian banks this year so far) and putting it in American banks. At the same time American Money Market Funds have also stopped lending to European banks.

But, the American banks are now lending billion of that money back to the European banks via long duration repo agreements (an agreement in which you 'sell' an asset but with the agreement to repurchase the assets at a fixed time and at a fixed price). Thus it is less like selling and more like pawning. And so, to solve their short term funding the European banks are pledging assets that are still worth something at American banks who funnily enough find themselves flush with cash.

But then help is at hand in th eform of a conference call no less betwen Merkel, Sarkozy and Papandreou in which it is revealed to a waiting world that, "Greece will meet its obligations and stay in the Euro block." There that was easy wan't it. Makes you wonder why they didn't just say so before!

[seafoid]

Roubini : Greece should default and leave the Euro

http://blogs.ft.com/the-a-list/2011/09/19/greece-should-default-and-abandon-the-euro/#axzz1YO84f6JE

"The recent debt exchange deal Europe offered Greece was a rip-off, providing much less debt relief than the country needed. If you pick apart the figures, and take into account the large sweeteners the plan gave to creditors, the true debt relief is actually close to zero."

[muppet]

Aside from all the financial issues does anyone think that long term there will be serious political consequences of this crisis?

Imho the humiliation of Greece and the austerity packages rammed into other countries could create a bigger appetite for the rise of the extreme right and the extreme left in these countries. The short term thinking in Europe and the States could have very serious long term implications over the next decade.