The Palestine thread

[seafoid]

I do hold them accountable, I think the Israeli leader is a war criminal and should be held accountable for the atrocities he has had committed through his armies.

The republicans stance on Palestine is an absolute disgrace, it is shameful what they are allowing to happen to the Palestinian people.

Is that strong enough rhetoric for you muppet?

Can you hold the President of the US of A accountable for his non action on this issues when he had the backing of both houses?

I agree with all of that.

Obama deserves some criticism, fair enough, but he still went further than anyone before him. How useless have they been?

How has he went further? He did not have the balls to put the f**kers in their place when he had the clout to do so, it works like this, when you are the Prez and you own both houses you in effect, can do whatever the feck you like, especially with the majorities he had, on this issue he did feck all, to his credit he continues to be frosty to the war criminal, that is the height of his helping the Palestinian people.

That still puts him ahead of any other President.

As for having both Houses, we both know it is not as simple as that. Democrats have historically supported Israel, but that is weakening.

It cannot weaken fast enough, but at least it is weakening on that side of the house, the republicans shat the bed on Israel.

Israel is losing support in the US especially regarding younger Jews who tend to grow up liberal and aren-t very impressed by 24&7 brutality in the name of Jewish destiny

There are many ways to be Jewish other than shoving the butt of a gun into an elderley woman in Hebron  or elsewhere
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSFurxWsVb8

Palestinians are reallz on top of filming all the Zionist shit the soldiers serve them.

[seafoid]

It doesn't matter who is President, as their 1st loyalty is to Israel. Hardly one politician in the US isn't indebted to the large
and influential Jewish lobby group AIPAC. Once elected, they will vote every time in favour of the Apartheid state and hand over
vast sums of US taxpayers money. Roughly $7 million per day is handed over in military aid. Add in additional hundreds of millions for
their Iron Dome project, and along with a free trade agreement, they do quite nicely from the USA.

Plus they get full protection at UN when it comes to been found guilty of vast crimes against humanity. Obama has joined the list
of Presidents who have just rolled over and vetoed any resolution against them. He is a puppet to the Israelis, and they shit on
him every chance they get. He just sits there and laps it up like the obedient child he was elected to be.

The only hope for any change in the region is coming through the boycott movement as political leaders have failed the
PAlestinians time and time again. Even the Irish have failed them, especially Sinn Fein who use their struggle as a political
hobby horse they can jump on and off. 

Israel will self destruct, and when they do, the world will be fcuked.......
[/quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSFurxWsVb8

The Republicans had a big focus on Israel in 2012 with Sheldon Adelson and it bombed.
The Dems focused on Latinos and women. they won. 

If it-s an election in an economic crisis people will vote for jobs, not some stupid Zionist moan that delivers nothing to ordinary Yanks. 

[give her dixie]

Benjamin Netanyahu blames Holocaust on Palestinian leader Haj Amin al-Husseini

Benjamin Netanyahu has placed the blame for the extermination of millions of Jewish people during World War II on the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, in a controversial speech.

The Israeli Prime Minister told the 37th World Zionist Congress this week that Nazi leader Adolf Hitler only wanted to expel the Jews - but was convinced to exterminate them by the Muslim leader, who died in 1974.

He said that the pair met in November 1941, and claimed: "Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jew. And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, 'If you expel them, they'll all come here (to Palestine).' According to Netanyahu, Hitler then asked: "What should I do with them?" and the Mufti replied: "Burn them."

    How long till Netanyahu has to apologise? Claim he 'misspoke' re Hitler and the Holocaust? Surely that comment can't be allowed to stand?
    — Mehdi Hasan (@mehdirhasan) October 20, 2015

Mr Netanyahu has made similar claims in the past, including during a Knesset speech in 2012, where he described Husseini -  who visited Hitler and Himmler and supported their persecution of the Jews of Europe - as "one of the leading architects" of the final solution, Haaretz reported.

Others have detailed Husseini's influence on Hitler, yet the theory that Husseini was the one to initiate the mass murder of European Jews has been widely rejected.

    Netanyahu was willing to whitewash Hitler to smear Palestinians. Just let that sink in to understand how low he has sunk.
    — Yousef Munayyer (@YousefMunayyer) October 21, 2015

In his speech, as detailed in a transcript issued by the Prime Minister's Office, Mr Netanyahu also described attacks on the Jewish community in Jerusalem in 1920, 1921 and 1929 as being "instigated by a call of the Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin al-Husseini, who was later sought for war crimes in the Nuremberg trials because he had a central role in fomenting the final solution".

    Not only does PM @netanyahu blame Palestinians for the Jewish holocaust, he paints Hitler as a reasonable guy, forced to commit heinous acts
    — Ferrari Sheppard (@stopbeingfamous) October 21, 2015

But it has been met with outrage by writers and users of social media, who have branded Mr Netanyahu's comments a "bizarre kind of Holocaust revisionism". "This statement is almost too absurd to debunk," the Alternet reported.

Others, such as novelist Linda Grant, accused Mr Netanyahu of being "toxic" and of effectively "exonerating Hitler".

    Netanyahu has said something so profoundly toxic he might have brought the whole Jewish world down on his head. He's exonerated Hitler.
    — Linda Grant (@lindasgrant) October 21, 2015

And some described the PM's comments as a "whitewash" and "smear on Palestinians".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/benjamin-netanyahu-blames-holocaust-on-palestinian-leader-haj-amin-al-husseini-a6702091.html

[give her dixie]

[give her dixie]

CRH sells controversial stake in Israel's only cement firm Mashav

CRH has sold its 25pc stake in Israel's only cement firm, Mashav, ending a focus of huge controversy for the Irish group.

    Share

CRH has been targeted by pro-Palestinian activists at its AGMs who pressed for the global building materials firm to sell the stake in the Israeli group.

Cement produced by Mashav has been used to build barriers for a widely condemned security wall that separates Israel from the Palenstinian West Bank.

The infamous wall dividing the West Bank from Israel helped inspire dramatic scenes in the recent Brad Pitt film World War Z, where zombies attacked a giant wall protecting Israel.

CRH owned a stake in Mashav since 2001, and for years has drawn fire from some shareholders and international pressure groups for retaining its holding in the company.

Mashav is the holding company for a firm called Nesher, whose cement has ultimately been used to make huge concrete slabs that were used to construct the wall dividing the West Bank from Israel.

Over a decade ago, the Israeli government began building what will eventually be a 700km-long security fence. About 10pc of it comprises a concrete wall that's about 25 feet high.

The Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign is among the groups that for years put pressure on CRH to divest its stake in Mashav. The group has previously staged protests at CRH annual general meetings.

http://www.independent.ie/business/crh-sells-controversial-stake-in-israels-only-cement-firm-mashav-34345981.html

[seafoid]

In order to understand why Israel is such a fucked up country with such a grim future you have to understand the full awfulness of the Shoah .They have never dealt with it. they just threw themselves into militarism and settler colonialism. Now it is pretty clear that militarism was no answer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqbxtrTBP2A

The Judenrat leaders were FG golf club types who ran the ghettos for the Germans and sent their own people to the extermination camps including their own children. They were all murdered in the end, if they hadn't already committed suicide.

4 Jewish generations ago.


http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ghettos/rumkowski.html

A grievous blow has struck the ghetto. They are asking us to give up the best we possess -the children and the elderly. I was unworthy of having a child of my own, so I gave the best years of my life to children. I've lived and breathed with children, I never imagined I would be forced to deliver this sacrifice to the altar with my own hands. In my old age, I must stretch out my hands and beg: Brothers and sisters! Hand them over to me! Fathers and mothers: Give me your children!



I had a suspicion something was going to befall us. I anticipated "something" and was always like a watchman: on guard to prevent it. But I was unsuccessful because I did not know what was threatening us. The taking of the sick from the hospitals caught me completely by surprise. And I give you the best proof there is of this: I had my own nearest and dearest among them and I could do nothing for them!



I thought that would be the end of it, that after that, they'd leave us in peace, the peace for which I long so much, for which I've always worked, which has been my goal. But something else, it turned out, was destined for us. Such is the fate of the Jews: always more suffering and always worse suffering, especially in times of war.



Yesterday afternoon, they gave me the order to send more than 20,000 Jews out of the ghetto, and if not - "We will do it!" So the question became, 'Should we take it upon ourselves, do it ourselves, or leave it to others to do?". Well, we - that is, I and my closest associates - thought first not about "How many will perish?" but "How many is it possible to save?" And we reached the conclusion that, however hard it would be for us, we should take the implementation of this order into our own hands.



I must perform this difficult and bloody operation - I must cut off limbs in order to save the body itself. I must take children because, if not, others may be taken as well - God forbid.



I have no thought of consoling you today. Nor do I wish to calm you. I must lay bare your full anguish and pain. I come to you like a bandit, to take from you what you treasure most in your hearts! I have tried, using every possible means, to get the order revoked. I tried - when that proved to be impossible - to soften the order. Just yesterday, I ordered a list of children aged 9 - I wanted at least to save this one aged-group: the nine to 10 year olds. But I was not granted this concession. On only one point did I succeed: in saving the 10 year olds and up. Let this be a consolation to our profound grief.



There are, in the ghetto, many patients who can expect to live only a few days more, maybe a few weeks. I don't know if the idea is diabolical or not, but I must say it: "Give me the sick. In their place we can save the healthy."

I know how dear the sick are to any family, and particularly to Jews. However, when cruel demands are made, one has to weigh and measure: who shall, can and may be saved? And common sense dictates that the saved must be those who can be saved and those who have a chance of being rescued, not those who cannot be saved in any case...







Rumkowksi tasting the ghetto soup


We live in the ghetto, mind you. We live with so much restriction that we do not have enough even for the healthy, let alone for the sick. Each of us feeds the sick at the expense of our own health: we give our bread to the sick. We give them our meager ration of sugar, our little piece of meat. And what's the result? Not enough to cure the sick, and we ourselves become ill. Of course, such sacrifices are the most beautiful and noble. But there are times when one has to choose: sacrifice the sick, who haven't the slightest chance of recovery and who also may make others ill, or rescue the healthy.



I could not deliberate over this problem for long; I had to resolve it in favor of the healthy. In this spirit, I gave the appropriate instructions to the doctors, and they will be expected to deliver all incurable patients, so that the healthy, who want and are able to live, will be saved in their place.



I understand you, mothers; I see your tears, alright. I also feel what you feel in your hearts, you fathers who will have to go to work in the morning after your children have been taken from you, when just yesterday you were playing with your dear little ones. All this I know and feel. Since 4 o'clock yesterday, when I first found out about the order, I have been utterly broken. I share your pain. I suffer because of your anguish, and I don't know how I'll survive this - where I'll find the strength to do so.



I must tell you a secret: they requested 24,000 victims, 3000 a day for eight days. I succeeded in reducing the number to 20,000, but only on the condition that these be children under the age of 10. Children 10 and older are safe! Since the children and the aged together equal only some 13,000 souls, the gap will have to be filled with the sick.



I can barely speak. I am exhausted; I only want to tell you what I am asking of you: Help me carry out this action! I am trembling. I am afraid that others, God forbid, will do it themselves.



A broken Jew stands before you. Do not envy me. This is the most difficult of all orders I have ever had to carry out at any time. I reach out to you with my broken, trembling hands and beg: Give into my hands the victims! So that we can avoid having further victims, and a population of 100,000 Jews can be preserved! So, they promised me: If we deliver our victims by ourselves, there will be peace!!!



At this point in the speech the crowd begins shouting. Many cry out:

"We will not let the children go alone! We will all go!"



Rumkowski continues:







Rumkowski delivers one of his many ghetto speeches


These are empty phrases!!! I don't have the strength to argue with you! If the authorities were to arrive, none of you would be shouting!



I understand what it means to tear off a part of the body. Yesterday, I begged on my knees, but it did not work. From small villages with Jewish populations of 7000 to 8000, barely 1000 arrived here. So which is better? What do you want? That 80,000 to 90,000 Jews remain, or God forbid, that the whole population be annihilated?



You may judge as you please; my duty is to preserve the Jews who remain. I do not speak to hot-heads! I speak to your reason and conscience. I have done and will continue doing everything possible to keep arms from appearing in the streets and blood from being shed. The order could not be undone; it could only be reduced.



One needs the heart of a bandit to ask from you what I am asking. But put yourself in my place, think logically, and you'll reach the conclusion that I cannot proceed any other way. The part that can be saved is much larger than the part that must be given away!"



End Speech


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



In August of 1944 Chaim Mordechai Rumkowski voluntarily boarded a train headed for Auschwitz in order to accompany his brother Jozef who was forcibly deported to the death camp.



The death of Rumkowski:



One widely accepted account is that Rumkowski was beaten to death by one of the Sonderkommando's in Birkenau, made up of Jews from the Łódź ghetto. His body was believed to have been thrown into an open pit and burned.



An excerpt from the book "Defy the Darkness: A Tale of Courage in the Shadow of Mengele," written by survivor Joe Rosenblum, gives the following account of Rumkowski's fate:








Jews preparing to be deported


As the seemingly never-ending parade of black locomotives chugged to the ramp, I was surprised to see how many people from ghettos or even concentration camps the Germans were piling in. This change raised opportunities for revenge, a chance to pay back the Jews and others who had turned against their own kind to gain an extra slice of bread or a more comfortable bed. The most blatant example I saw occurred in September 1944 when the Jewish policemen from the Polish city of Łódź were brought in. Among them was Chaim Rumkowski, president of the whole ghetto, as Lazar had been in our town. Rumkowski was getting the same reward as Lazar: death.



The Łódź Jewish Council, through the Jewish police there, had turned in about fifty Jews who had been underworld members in 1940. These guys had been thugs, thieves, and con men. Like Lazar, they'd have people steal for them, then ransom back the goods. The men had committed all kinds of crimes, except murder. Strangely, in Birkenau they were a closely knit lot, but kindly. A few had become powerful Senior Block Inmates, including Morris the Hasid, to whom I had paid the fifty dollars to get my job with the Czech.



There was also Blackie, who got his name because he was so dark-skinned. He had been a thief and a con man in Łódź, but here he was a man whose word was good and who took care of his people. It was Blackie I went to when I wanted a job for someone. I did it so often he once looked at me and asked, "Who else are you going to bring in here? Your uncle? Your cousin? Your nephew? No babies, Joe. I draw the line there. They're too young," he said, his dark skin framing a smile bright enough to light up the sky.



Even though they usually were good people, Morris, Blackie, and the others had vowed revenge on the Jewish policemen who had captured them. One night, the former thieves had their chance. They spotted the Jewish police contingent from Łódź emptying out of one of the cattle cars.



"We're going to have our revenge," Blackie whispered to me. "We're going to get them gassed."  The policemen didn't know which line was which. Mengele had put them into the group that was going to live and be shipped off to labor camps. Then a couple of the Łódź underground group, including Blackie, walked over to the Jewish police, looked them in the eye, then pointed over to the death line.



The policemen, not knowing the difference, meekly obeyed and were marched to their death. They joined Rumkowski, who was old and lame, and was being carried to the crematorium on a litter.







Rumkowski presiding over a meeting in the ghetto


"Take a look," Blackie whispered to me. "Now he's in a litter. He sent a lot of us to the camps. Lots of us were gassed. It's his turn."



Rumkowski didn't know what was happening. He turned to me, of all people, and asked, "What goes on here?"  "Can't you smell? Can't you see the fire?" I replied, anger and revenge in my voice for what he had done to my friends.



"Where am I?"



"Auschwitz."



"Oh, my God," he said, smacking his forehead with his palm. Then he started reciting a Jewish prayer as two guards picked up his litter to carry him away.



There he was, a man who had been rich and powerful, in charge of a city out of which had poured the products of enormous factories. He thought he would save himself by doing the Germans' bidding. As they had for Lazar, the Nazis ultimately had more use for him dead than alive. I felt no sympathy, no pain. Rumkowski was a traitor and deserved a traitor's death. Later, I talked to Blackie about what they had done to the Łódź Jewish police. "You did what you did. I guess you had to do it," I told him.



"We were pushed out of the ghetto because we were in the underworld. I didn't know any better. I considered it my job, which I went to while people were sleeping in their beds. But we had a heart, and this guy didn't," Blackie said, looking grim.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ashman]

Seafoid

That is a truly disgraceful comment and if you stand over it you are a Cnut.

Retract please .

[seafoid]

Seafoid

That is a truly disgraceful comment and if you stand over it you are a Cnut.

Retract please .

Never forget what happened, because if you do you can't understand how to fix Israel.
And beating the shit out of Gaza will never erase the hell of WW2.

[seafoid]

ISIS in Gaza. Bualadh bos for Israel, long term strategic thinking maestros, run of course out of the Kirya in Tel Aviv by Maj General Cupid Stunt.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/01/14/isis-in-gaza/

[ashman]

Seafoid

That is a truly disgraceful comment and if you stand over it you are a Cnut.

Retract please .

Never forget what happened, because if you do you can't understand how to fix Israel.
And beating the shit out of Gaza will never erase the hell of WW2.

"They were Fg golf club types"

I am not a supporter of any political party but that comment is a disgrace and you should retract .

[seafoid]

Seafoid

That is a truly disgraceful comment and if you stand over it you are a Cnut.

Retract please .

Never forget what happened, because if you do you can't understand how to fix Israel.
And beating the shit out of Gaza will never erase the hell of WW2.

"They were Fg golf club types"

I am not a supporter of any political party but that comment is a disgrace and you should retract .

There are FG golf club types everywhere, Ashman. They tend to run the show. Very good business people and usually they wear the right kind of jumpers.
South American junta types often remind me of Fine Gaelers.

[ashman]

You strike me as a very very bitter man.

[seafoid]

You strike me as a very very bitter man.

Is that with fizzy water or not?
I have been following Israel since 2000 and every year it gets worse. The denouement is going to be brutal.
Dumping Europe's hated,  persecuted and unwanted Jews post ww2 on Palestine was a f**king stupid idea.

[ashman]

Nothing to do with Israel or Palestine.  My beef was with your labelling of those patrolling ghettos as being "FG types".   I think you are not great a listening to others . 

Again you should retract .  The above comment is sick . 

[seafoid]

Nothing to do with Israel or Palestine.  My beef was with your labelling of those patrolling ghettos as being "FG types".   I think you are not great a listening to others . 

Again you should retract .  The above comment is sick .

I have no intention of doing so, Ash. you are trying to make an argument without having basic coherence.
Every society has an elite. Those Judenrat unfortunates  were elite. People in lemon jumpers in Ballyhaunis GC are elite and will remind yu of it. In the newsagents in enniscrone the owner wears pink and lemon jumpers and has a very strong gimp that lead me to suspect that she was  a FG golfer. This was confirmed during a trip to the golf club. One of my grand aunts played golf and voted FG as well. Very respectable people. 
What is your point  ? is it that society is actually run by mid ranking PS employees or something ?