Author Topic: The Palestine thread  (Read 128792 times)

give her dixie

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2955 on: January 08, 2016, 11:28:32 PM »
CRH sells controversial stake in Israel's only cement firm Mashav

 CRH has sold its 25pc stake in Israel’s only cement firm, Mashav, ending a focus of huge controversy for the Irish group.

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CRH has been targeted by pro-Palestinian activists at its AGMs who pressed for the global building materials firm to sell the stake in the Israeli group.

Cement produced by Mashav has been used to build barriers for a widely condemned security wall that separates Israel from the Palenstinian West Bank.

The infamous wall dividing the West Bank from Israel helped inspire dramatic scenes in the recent Brad Pitt film World War Z, where zombies attacked a giant wall protecting Israel.

CRH owned a stake in Mashav since 2001, and for years has drawn fire from some shareholders and international pressure groups for retaining its holding in the company.

Mashav is the holding company for a firm called Nesher, whose cement has ultimately been used to make huge concrete slabs that were used to construct the wall dividing the West Bank from Israel.

Over a decade ago, the Israeli government began building what will eventually be a 700km-long security fence. About 10pc of it comprises a concrete wall that's about 25 feet high.

The Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign is among the groups that for years put pressure on CRH to divest its stake in Mashav. The group has previously staged protests at CRH annual general meetings.

http://www.independent.ie/business/crh-sells-controversial-stake-in-israels-only-cement-firm-mashav-34345981.html
next stop, September 10, for number 4......

seafoid

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2956 on: January 09, 2016, 11:59:46 AM »
In order to understand why Israel is such a fucked up country with such a grim future you have to understand the full awfulness of the Shoah .They have never dealt with it. they just threw themselves into militarism and settler colonialism. Now it is pretty clear that militarism was no answer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqbxtrTBP2A

The Judenrat leaders were FG golf club types who ran the ghettos for the Germans and sent their own people to the extermination camps including their own children. They were all murdered in the end, if they hadn't already committed suicide.

4 Jewish generations ago.

 
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ghettos/rumkowski.html

A grievous blow has struck the ghetto. They are asking us to give up the best we possess -the children and the elderly. I was unworthy of having a child of my own, so I gave the best years of my life to children. I've lived and breathed with children, I never imagined I would be forced to deliver this sacrifice to the altar with my own hands. In my old age, I must stretch out my hands and beg: Brothers and sisters! Hand them over to me! Fathers and mothers: Give me your children!

 

I had a suspicion something was going to befall us. I anticipated "something" and was always like a watchman: on guard to prevent it. But I was unsuccessful because I did not know what was threatening us. The taking of the sick from the hospitals caught me completely by surprise. And I give you the best proof there is of this: I had my own nearest and dearest among them and I could do nothing for them!

 

I thought that would be the end of it, that after that, they'd leave us in peace, the peace for which I long so much, for which I've always worked, which has been my goal. But something else, it turned out, was destined for us. Such is the fate of the Jews: always more suffering and always worse suffering, especially in times of war.

 

Yesterday afternoon, they gave me the order to send more than 20,000 Jews out of the ghetto, and if not - "We will do it!” So the question became, 'Should we take it upon ourselves, do it ourselves, or leave it to others to do?". Well, we - that is, I and my closest associates - thought first not about "How many will perish?" but "How many is it possible to save?" And we reached the conclusion that, however hard it would be for us, we should take the implementation of this order into our own hands.

 

I must perform this difficult and bloody operation - I must cut off limbs in order to save the body itself. I must take children because, if not, others may be taken as well - God forbid.

 

I have no thought of consoling you today. Nor do I wish to calm you. I must lay bare your full anguish and pain. I come to you like a bandit, to take from you what you treasure most in your hearts! I have tried, using every possible means, to get the order revoked. I tried - when that proved to be impossible - to soften the order. Just yesterday, I ordered a list of children aged 9 - I wanted at least to save this one aged-group: the nine to 10 year olds. But I was not granted this concession. On only one point did I succeed: in saving the 10 year olds and up. Let this be a consolation to our profound grief.

 

There are, in the ghetto, many patients who can expect to live only a few days more, maybe a few weeks. I don't know if the idea is diabolical or not, but I must say it: "Give me the sick. In their place we can save the healthy."

I know how dear the sick are to any family, and particularly to Jews. However, when cruel demands are made, one has to weigh and measure: who shall, can and may be saved? And common sense dictates that the saved must be those who can be saved and those who have a chance of being rescued, not those who cannot be saved in any case...

 





Rumkowksi tasting the ghetto soup
 

We live in the ghetto, mind you. We live with so much restriction that we do not have enough even for the healthy, let alone for the sick. Each of us feeds the sick at the expense of our own health: we give our bread to the sick. We give them our meager ration of sugar, our little piece of meat. And what's the result? Not enough to cure the sick, and we ourselves become ill. Of course, such sacrifices are the most beautiful and noble. But there are times when one has to choose: sacrifice the sick, who haven't the slightest chance of recovery and who also may make others ill, or rescue the healthy.

 

I could not deliberate over this problem for long; I had to resolve it in favor of the healthy. In this spirit, I gave the appropriate instructions to the doctors, and they will be expected to deliver all incurable patients, so that the healthy, who want and are able to live, will be saved in their place.

 

I understand you, mothers; I see your tears, alright. I also feel what you feel in your hearts, you fathers who will have to go to work in the morning after your children have been taken from you, when just yesterday you were playing with your dear little ones. All this I know and feel. Since 4 o'clock yesterday, when I first found out about the order, I have been utterly broken. I share your pain. I suffer because of your anguish, and I don't know how I'll survive this - where I'll find the strength to do so.

 

I must tell you a secret: they requested 24,000 victims, 3000 a day for eight days. I succeeded in reducing the number to 20,000, but only on the condition that these be children under the age of 10. Children 10 and older are safe! Since the children and the aged together equal only some 13,000 souls, the gap will have to be filled with the sick.

 

I can barely speak. I am exhausted; I only want to tell you what I am asking of you: Help me carry out this action! I am trembling. I am afraid that others, God forbid, will do it themselves.

 

A broken Jew stands before you. Do not envy me. This is the most difficult of all orders I have ever had to carry out at any time. I reach out to you with my broken, trembling hands and beg: Give into my hands the victims! So that we can avoid having further victims, and a population of 100,000 Jews can be preserved! So, they promised me: If we deliver our victims by ourselves, there will be peace!!!

 

At this point in the speech the crowd begins shouting. Many cry out:

“We will not let the children go alone! We will all go!”

 

Rumkowski continues:

 





Rumkowski delivers one of his many ghetto speeches
 

These are empty phrases!!! I don't have the strength to argue with you! If the authorities were to arrive, none of you would be shouting!

 

I understand what it means to tear off a part of the body. Yesterday, I begged on my knees, but it did not work. From small villages with Jewish populations of 7000 to 8000, barely 1000 arrived here. So which is better? What do you want? That 80,000 to 90,000 Jews remain, or God forbid, that the whole population be annihilated?

 

You may judge as you please; my duty is to preserve the Jews who remain. I do not speak to hot-heads! I speak to your reason and conscience. I have done and will continue doing everything possible to keep arms from appearing in the streets and blood from being shed. The order could not be undone; it could only be reduced.

 

One needs the heart of a bandit to ask from you what I am asking. But put yourself in my place, think logically, and you'll reach the conclusion that I cannot proceed any other way. The part that can be saved is much larger than the part that must be given away!"

 

End Speech
 

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In August of 1944 Chaim Mordechai Rumkowski voluntarily boarded a train headed for Auschwitz in order to accompany his brother Jozef who was forcibly deported to the death camp.

 

The death of Rumkowski:

 

One widely accepted account is that Rumkowski was beaten to death by one of the Sonderkommando’s in Birkenau, made up of Jews from the Łódź ghetto. His body was believed to have been thrown into an open pit and burned.

 

An excerpt from the book "Defy the Darkness: A Tale of Courage in the Shadow of Mengele," written by survivor Joe Rosenblum, gives the following account of Rumkowski’s fate:

 






Jews preparing to be deported
 

As the seemingly never-ending parade of black locomotives chugged to the ramp, I was surprised to see how many people from ghettos or even concentration camps the Germans were piling in. This change raised opportunities for revenge, a chance to pay back the Jews and others who had turned against their own kind to gain an extra slice of bread or a more comfortable bed. The most blatant example I saw occurred in September 1944 when the Jewish policemen from the Polish city of Łódź were brought in. Among them was Chaim Rumkowski, president of the whole ghetto, as Lazar had been in our town. Rumkowski was getting the same reward as Lazar: death.

 

The Łódź Jewish Council, through the Jewish police there, had turned in about fifty Jews who had been underworld members in 1940. These guys had been thugs, thieves, and con men. Like Lazar, they'd have people steal for them, then ransom back the goods. The men had committed all kinds of crimes, except murder. Strangely, in Birkenau they were a closely knit lot, but kindly. A few had become powerful Senior Block Inmates, including Morris the Hasid, to whom I had paid the fifty dollars to get my job with the Czech.

 

There was also Blackie, who got his name because he was so dark-skinned. He had been a thief and a con man in Łódź, but here he was a man whose word was good and who took care of his people. It was Blackie I went to when I wanted a job for someone. I did it so often he once looked at me and asked, "Who else are you going to bring in here? Your uncle? Your cousin? Your nephew? No babies, Joe. I draw the line there. They're too young," he said, his dark skin framing a smile bright enough to light up the sky.

 

Even though they usually were good people, Morris, Blackie, and the others had vowed revenge on the Jewish policemen who had captured them. One night, the former thieves had their chance. They spotted the Jewish police contingent from Łódź emptying out of one of the cattle cars.

 

"We're going to have our revenge," Blackie whispered to me. "We're going to get them gassed."  The policemen didn't know which line was which. Mengele had put them into the group that was going to live and be shipped off to labor camps. Then a couple of the Łódź underground group, including Blackie, walked over to the Jewish police, looked them in the eye, then pointed over to the death line.

 

The policemen, not knowing the difference, meekly obeyed and were marched to their death. They joined Rumkowski, who was old and lame, and was being carried to the crematorium on a litter.

 





Rumkowski presiding over a meeting in the ghetto
 

"Take a look," Blackie whispered to me. "Now he's in a litter. He sent a lot of us to the camps. Lots of us were gassed. It's his turn."

 

Rumkowski didn't know what was happening. He turned to me, of all people, and asked, "What goes on here?"  "Can't you smell? Can't you see the fire?" I replied, anger and revenge in my voice for what he had done to my friends.

 

"Where am I?"

 

"Auschwitz."

 

"Oh, my God," he said, smacking his forehead with his palm. Then he started reciting a Jewish prayer as two guards picked up his litter to carry him away.

 

There he was, a man who had been rich and powerful, in charge of a city out of which had poured the products of enormous factories. He thought he would save himself by doing the Germans' bidding. As they had for Lazar, the Nazis ultimately had more use for him dead than alive. I felt no sympathy, no pain. Rumkowski was a traitor and deserved a traitor's death. Later, I talked to Blackie about what they had done to the Łódź Jewish police. "You did what you did. I guess you had to do it," I told him.

 

"We were pushed out of the ghetto because we were in the underworld. I didn't know any better. I considered it my job, which I went to while people were sleeping in their beds. But we had a heart, and this guy didn't," Blackie said, looking grim.

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« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 12:03:03 PM by seafoid »
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

ashman

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2957 on: January 10, 2016, 01:04:11 AM »
Seafoid

That is a truly disgraceful comment and if you stand over it you are a Cnut.

Retract please .

seafoid

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2958 on: January 10, 2016, 08:19:59 AM »
Seafoid

That is a truly disgraceful comment and if you stand over it you are a Cnut.

Retract please .
Never forget what happened, because if you do you can't understand how to fix Israel.
And beating the shit out of Gaza will never erase the hell of WW2.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 08:23:27 AM by seafoid »
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

seafoid

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2959 on: January 10, 2016, 08:41:04 PM »
ISIS in Gaza. Bualadh bos for Israel, long term strategic thinking maestros, run of course out of the Kirya in Tel Aviv by Maj General Cupid Stunt.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/01/14/isis-in-gaza/

"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

ashman

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2960 on: January 10, 2016, 09:25:56 PM »
Seafoid

That is a truly disgraceful comment and if you stand over it you are a Cnut.

Retract please .
Never forget what happened, because if you do you can't understand how to fix Israel.
And beating the shit out of Gaza will never erase the hell of WW2.

"They were Fg golf club types"

I am not a supporter of any political party but that comment is a disgrace and you should retract .

seafoid

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2961 on: January 10, 2016, 10:07:49 PM »
Seafoid

That is a truly disgraceful comment and if you stand over it you are a Cnut.

Retract please .
Never forget what happened, because if you do you can't understand how to fix Israel.
And beating the shit out of Gaza will never erase the hell of WW2.

"They were Fg golf club types"

I am not a supporter of any political party but that comment is a disgrace and you should retract .

There are FG golf club types everywhere, Ashman. They tend to run the show. Very good business people and usually they wear the right kind of jumpers.
 South American junta types often remind me of Fine Gaelers.
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

ashman

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2962 on: January 10, 2016, 10:15:03 PM »
You strike me as a very very bitter man.

seafoid

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2963 on: January 10, 2016, 10:27:03 PM »
You strike me as a very very bitter man.
Is that with fizzy water or not?
 I have been following Israel since 2000 and every year it gets worse. The denouement is going to be brutal.
Dumping Europe's hated,  persecuted and unwanted Jews post ww2 on Palestine was a f**king stupid idea.
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

ashman

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2964 on: January 10, 2016, 10:42:24 PM »
Nothing to do with Israel or Palestine.  My beef was with your labelling of those patrolling ghettos as being "FG types".   I think you are not great a listening to others . 

Again you should retract .  The above comment is sick . 

seafoid

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2965 on: January 10, 2016, 10:46:24 PM »
Nothing to do with Israel or Palestine.  My beef was with your labelling of those patrolling ghettos as being "FG types".   I think you are not great a listening to others . 

Again you should retract .  The above comment is sick .
I have no intention of doing so, Ash. you are trying to make an argument without having basic coherence.
Every society has an elite. Those Judenrat unfortunates  were elite. People in lemon jumpers in Ballyhaunis GC are elite and will remind yu of it. In the newsagents in enniscrone the owner wears pink and lemon jumpers and has a very strong gimp that lead me to suspect that she was  a FG golfer. This was confirmed during a trip to the golf club. One of my grand aunts played golf and voted FG as well. Very respectable people. 
What is your point  ? is it that society is actually run by mid ranking PS employees or something ?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 10:49:27 PM by seafoid »
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

ashman

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2966 on: January 10, 2016, 11:01:03 PM »
You are batshit .  Bye

seafoid

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2967 on: January 11, 2016, 11:28:12 AM »
You are batshit .  Bye
You only understand what you see. And we are all learning.

"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

Denn Forever

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2968 on: January 11, 2016, 12:51:41 PM »
You are batshit .  Bye

In substantial quanties, a very valuable substance.
I have more respect for a man
that says what he means and
means what he says...

seafoid

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2969 on: March 21, 2016, 09:33:20 PM »
Israel.is getting interesting again. The minister for education has started banning books. Something remarkable considering Jewish history. And AIPAC has to invite Trump to its conference even though.most Jews are opposed.
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"