Author Topic: The Palestine thread  (Read 129048 times)

give her dixie

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The Palestine thread
« on: October 17, 2012, 01:29:42 PM »
From the "only democracy in the middle east", or "God's chosen people" as they like to call themselves.......

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/2-279-calories-per-person-how-israel-made-sure-gaza-didn-t-starve.premium-1.470419

After a three-and-a-half-year legal battle waged by the Gisha human rights organization, the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories has finally released a 2008 document that detailed its "red lines" for "food consumption in the Gaza Strip."

The document calculates the minimum number of calories necessary, in COGAT's view, to keep Gaza residents from malnutrition at a time when Israel was tightening its restrictions on the movement of people and goods in and out of the Strip, including food products and raw materials. The document states that Health Ministry officials were involved in drafting it, and the calculations were based on "a model formulated by the Ministry of Health ... according to average Israeli consumption," though the figures were then "adjusted to culture and experience" in Gaza.


COGAT, appealing a District Court ruling to release the document, stated that it was merely a rough draft, that it was never actually implemented, and that it did not guide Israeli policy in practice. In its objection to the document's publication, COGAT argued that there was no reason to disclose what was essentially internal staff work, a mere proposal that was never actually put into effect. In fact, COGAT told Haaretz on Tuesday, after the document was drafted, the agency never even held a single discussion of it.

But the court disagreed, and on its orders, the document (in two different versions, both from January 2008) was given to Gisha two weeks ago. It is now being published here for the first time. Its very existence was also first reported in Haaretz, in a June 2009 article by Uri Blau and Yotam Feldman.

In September 2007, the cabinet, then headed by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, decided to tighten restrictions on the movement of people and goods to and from the Gaza Strip. The "red lines" document was written about four months afterward.

The cabinet decision stated that "the movement of goods into the Gaza Strip will be restricted; the supply of gas and electricity will be reduced; and restrictions will be imposed on the movement of people from the Strip and to it." In addition, exports from Gaza would be forbidden entirely. However, the resolution added, the restrictions should be tailored to avoid a "humanitarian crisis."

At a High Court hearing on Gisha's petition against this policy, government attorneys Gilad Sherman and Dana Briskman, backed by an affidavit from Col. Shlomi Mukhtar of COGAT, explained that "it is the state's right to decide that it doesn't intend to have economic ties with, or provide economic assistance to, the other party in the conflict, and to adopt a policy of 'economic warfare.'"

The "red lines" document calculates the minimum number of calories needed by every age and gender group in Gaza, then uses this to determine the quantity of staple foods that must be allowed into the Strip every day, as well as the number of trucks needed to carry this quantity. On average, the minimum worked out to 2,279 calories per person per day, which could be supplied by 1,836 grams of food, or 2,575.5 tons of food for the entire population of Gaza.

Bringing this quantity into the Strip would require 170.4 truckloads per day, five days a week.

From this quantity, the document's authors then deducted 68.6 truckloads to account for the food produced locally in Gaza ­ mainly vegetables, fruit, milk and meat. The documents note that the Health Ministry's data about various products includes the weight of the package (about 1 to 5 percent of the total weight) and that "The total amount of food takes into consideration 'sampling' by toddlers under the age of 2 (adds 34 tons per day to the general population)."

From this total, 13 truckloads were deducted to adjust for the "culture and experience" of food consumption in Gaza, though the document does not explain how this deduction was calculated.

While this adjustment actually led to a higher figure for sugar (five truckloads, compared to only 2.6 under the Health Ministry's original model),
it reduced the quantity of fruits and vegetables (18 truckloads, compared to 28.5), milk (12 truckloads instead of 21.1), and meat and poultry (14 instead of 17.2).

Altogether, therefore, COGAT concluded that Israel needed to allow 131 truckloads of food and other essential products into Gaza every day (via the "back to back" system, in which goods are transferred from an Israeli truck to a Palestinian one at the border). Of these, 106 would go through the Kerem Shalom crossing and the rest via the Karni crossing (which was closed a few years later).

The document states that then-Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai had approved the entry of 106 trucks per day even before the "red lines" were calculated, along with additional truckloads of wheat seed and animal feed.

The point of the "red lines" document was to see if this number of trucks in fact met Gaza's needs. But according to Gisha, UN data shows that the number of trucks allowed into Gaza each day often fell below this level.

COGAT, then headed by Maj. Gen. Amos Gilad, translated the government's policy of restrictions into two lists. The long one detailed the forbidden goods that couldn't be brought into the Strip (including, for example, building materials, needles, cloth and other raw materials, cleaning and bathing supplies, books, musical instruments and processed hummus). The short one listed those that could be brought in. The guiding principle was that instead of the supply of goods being dictated by demand, it would be dictated by the quantities and varieties deemed necessary by COGAT.

From time to time, COGAT officers revised the lists. Thus in late 2008, for instance, COGAT began allowing the import of shampoo ­ though conditioner was still banned. In 2009, plain processed hummus was taken off the banned list, but hummus with pine nuts was still off-limits.

To obey the cabinet's order to avoid a "humanitarian crisis," COGAT officers devised what they called "sensors" to warn them if there was a risk of impending malnutrition or an impending shortage of the permitted goods. Thus in addition to the "red lines," they produced two other documents: a model for estimating inventories of essential staples in Gaza, and a procedure for allowing the entry of goods into the Strip.

In practice, COGAT says, policy was guided by the inventory estimation model and the procedure for the entry of goods, not by the "red lines" document.

Following another petition to the High Court by Gisha, these two documents were published by Haaretz in October 2010.

"The quantification wasn't done in order to arrive at a minimum threshold or restrict the quantities, but the opposite ­ to ensure that there was no shortage," a COGAT official maintained Tuesday.

Gisha, however, doubts the claim that the "red lines" document was never actually used. For instance, it said, the prosecution evidently relied on the minimum threshold the document sets for meat (300 calves imported each week) when it argued in court against Gisha's request that the quota be increased during the Eid al-Fitr holiday, at the end of Ramadan. COGAT responded that this particular figure was part of the inventory estimation model, and therefore that it was in use.

International humanitarian organizations use a model called the Sphere standards to gauge a population's needs and determine the aid that should be sent to it in an emergency (whether war or natural disaster). This model is far more complex and less mathematical than the "red lines." But the most significant difference is that the "red lines" and the inventory estimation model were both devised by the very party that deliberately created the emergency situation, and that effectively controls both the territory and the population.

The drafters of the "red lines" document noted that the quantity of fruit and vegetables Gaza could produce for itself was expected to decline from 1,000 tons a day to 500 within a few months, due to the Israeli ban on bringing in seeds and other raw materials needed for agriculture, as well as the ban on exporting produce from the Strip. They predicted a similar fate for the poultry industry. But they didn't propose any solution for this decline.

Robert Turner, UNRWA's director of operations in the Gaza Strip, told Haaretz that he "read the draft with concern. If this reflects an authentic policy intended to cap food imports, this 'red lines' approach is contrary to humanitarian principles. If it is intended to prevent a humanitarian crisis by setting a minimum threshold, it has failed."

UNRWA, as the UN agency responsible for aiding Palestinian refugees, is closely involved in the daily lives of some 1 million residents of the Gaza Strip. Based on this knowledge, Turner asserted that "The facts on the ground in Gaza demonstrate that food imports consistently fell below the red lines.

Had official crossings been the only channel of food imports in the Gaza Strip and UN agencies not ensured that a minimal share of food reached the poorest, the recorded level of imports would have resulted in a substantial aggravation of nutritional deficiencies in the Gaza Strip."

Moreover, he said, the model failed to take into account the food lost due to the "back to back" trucking system: Sacks of food routinely break open and spill as they are being transferred from one truck to the other. This loss alone, Turner said, cost UNRWA about $5 million a year.

Asked whether the situation in Gaza is better today, now that the ban on the entry of food and most other goods has been lifted, Turner said that as long as the ban on exports remains in force, the "unprecedented levels of 'man made' aid dependency" will remain in force as well.

Attorney Sari Bashi of Gisha said Israel's claim that it isn't responsible for Gaza's population is clearly in contradiction with the fact that "it can determine the amount and types of food that will be found in the markets. This control obligates it to refrain from restrictions on movement that don't answer a concrete security need ­ an obligation that isn't being met by the current policy."

The Health Ministry did not respond to Haaretz's questions about its involvement in writing the document.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 02:29:30 PM by give her dixie »
next stop, September 10, for number 4......

seafoid

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Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2012, 03:13:41 PM »
Gaza is no longer occupied by Israel, my arse.

Some Yom Kippur the chosen people will atone for what they currently are doing to Gaza.
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seafoid

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Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2012, 04:54:39 PM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2012/sep/11/black-ballet-gaza-proms-andy-murray

• It should be clear from Robert Turner's report on the outlook for Gaza (An early warning, 10 September) that the purpose of Israel's policy is what it always has been: to make Gaza uninhabitable for Palestinians.
Lyndon Pugh
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Ball DeBeaver

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Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2012, 05:50:35 PM »
Quote
October 17, 2012


 Amid rising unemployment and economic crisis, Gazans are queuing up to buy the Apple iPhone 5, willing to pay double its price, officials said.
 
The iPhones, sent from Dubai, are smuggled into Gaza via tunnels from Egypt, reaching the enclave before its neighbor Israel, al-Arabiya said Wednesday.
 
The cutting edge smart phone is being sold for nearly double the price in the United States, and cost $1,170 to $1,480 in Gaza, compared with $650 to $850 in the United States, the network said.
 
"I ordered 30 and have sold 20 so far. We can order as many as we want, but most people are waiting for the price to go down. They are pretty expensive," a dealer told the pan-Arab network.
 
Transport and handling costs for all imports are inflated by bribes paid in Egypt to facilitate the smuggling of goods into the area where 1.6 million live and Hamas also imposes sales tax on goods making it more expensive, the network said.
 
The iPhone will not be available until December in Israel. Apple has no official store or dealership in Gaza
 

http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/2012/10/17/iphone_5_a_hit_in_gaza.htm

If things are so bad in gaza, then how come they can afford to pay $1000 for an iphone. I can't even afford that. FFS
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armaghniac

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Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2012, 06:54:21 PM »

Quote
If things are so bad in gaza, then how come they can afford to pay $1000 for an iphone. I can't even afford that. FFS

"I ordered 30 and have sold 20 so far. We can order as many as we want, but most people are waiting for the price to go down.

So they've sold 30, that really proves things are great in Gaza.  Whoopee.
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Ball DeBeaver

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Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2012, 07:37:34 PM »
It shows that things are so bad that they have the ready cash to splash on iphones. But they claim to be starving.

How many calories are in an iphone?
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armaghniac

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Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2012, 08:31:07 PM »
Quote
t shows that things are so bad that they have the ready cash to splash on iphones.

It shows that 30 people have the money to spend on an iPhone. What does that prove about everyone else?
if at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

give her dixie

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Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2012, 01:13:37 AM »
It shows that things are so bad that they have the ready cash to splash on iphones. But they claim to be starving.

How many calories are in an iphone?

People in Gaza use the iphone for many things, and mainly to cover events on the ground via video like the relentless bombardment in the past 5 days that have left 5 people dead, bringing t5he total this year to over 70. Or to document the constant harasment of farmers and fishermen who are denied access to the sea and their land to farm. Others use in much the same way as the millions of others do, to send and receive calls and texts.

To try and defend the mass starvation of 1.5 million people by saying things are grand, sure 30 people have an iphone is pathetic and shows a serious lack of humanity on your behalf.

 
next stop, September 10, for number 4......

Agent Orange

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Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2012, 04:08:21 AM »
If there is one good thing to come out of this, I'd say instances of obeisity in Gaza are few and far between.

johnneycool

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Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2012, 08:27:00 AM »
If there is one good thing to come out of this, I'd say instances of obeisity in Gaza are few and far between.

Why not throw in a gag about the Nazi gas chambers as well for good measure?

stew

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Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2012, 02:16:08 PM »
Quote
October 17, 2012


 Amid rising unemployment and economic crisis, Gazans are queuing up to buy the Apple iPhone 5, willing to pay double its price, officials said.
 
The iPhones, sent from Dubai, are smuggled into Gaza via tunnels from Egypt, reaching the enclave before its neighbor Israel, al-Arabiya said Wednesday.
 
The cutting edge smart phone is being sold for nearly double the price in the United States, and cost $1,170 to $1,480 in Gaza, compared with $650 to $850 in the United States, the network said.
 
"I ordered 30 and have sold 20 so far. We can order as many as we want, but most people are waiting for the price to go down. They are pretty expensive," a dealer told the pan-Arab network.
 
Transport and handling costs for all imports are inflated by bribes paid in Egypt to facilitate the smuggling of goods into the area where 1.6 million live and Hamas also imposes sales tax on goods making it more expensive, the network said.
 
The iPhone will not be available until December in Israel. Apple has no official store or dealership in Gaza
 

http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/2012/10/17/iphone_5_a_hit_in_gaza.htm

If things are so bad in gaza, then how come they can afford to pay $1000 for an iphone. I can't even afford that. FFS

How can you read what GHD posted and make that statement???

I am sure, just like in Oireland that there are wealthy Palestinians......................... at least 30 of them! ;)
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Ball DeBeaver

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Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2012, 02:33:16 PM »
Quote
iPhone 5 Frenzy in Gaza Despite So-Called 'Harsh Blockade'

Apple’s pricey new iPhone 5 is selling like hotcakes in Gaza despite inflated prices and Israel's so-called "harsh blockade."
 

AAFont Size
 By Rachel Hirshfeld
First Publish: 10/17/2012, 10:25 AM
 



iphones being sold in Gaza

Reuters
 

Apple’s pricey new iPhone 5 is selling like hotcakes in the Gaza Strip despite inflated prices and is being smuggled into the Hamas-ruled enclave even before it has reached Israel.
 
The latest version of Apple’s sought-after iPhone is being sold for almost double its price in the United States, ranging from 4,500 Israeli shekels ($1,170) for the 16-gigabyte model to 5,700 ($1,480) for 64 gigabytes.
 
Its price has increased significantly due to middlemen who smuggle the smartphones into Gaza via tunnels linking the territory with Egypt.
 
The iPhone 5 will not be available until December from mobile operators in Israel, which along with Egypt maintains a limited blockade of Gaza in order to prevent the smuggling of weapons, which will then be directed against Israel by terrorists in Gaza.
 
The phones, however, have already been available for a couple of weeks in the Hamas-ruled territory and were on display on Monday in three independent mobile stores in Gaza City.

“I ordered 30 and I've sold 20 so far,” one dealer said, according to Al-Arabiya, “we can order as many as we want, but most people are waiting for the price to go down, they're pretty expensive.”

The iPhone 5, launched last month, sells for $650 and $850 for the 16 and 64-gigabyte versions respectively in the United States.

But the hefty mark-ups and high costs are not preventing buyers from purchasing the revered product.
 
One of the dealers in Gaza, where Apple has no store or official dealership, said “there are always some people prepared to pay whatever they must, just to be the first to have the latest thing.”

“This, you’ll recall, is the same Gaza that UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon characterized in an address to the UN Human Rights Council last month as suffering ‘unremitting poverty’ due to Israel’s ‘harsh’ blockade, a humanitarian crisis so grave that he devoted more of his speech to Gaza and the Palestinians than he did to the slaughter in Syria, where the death toll is over 30,000 and rising daily. It’s also the same Gaza that a UN report in August said would be ‘unliveable’ by 2020 if the blockade continued,” explains Commentary Magazine’s Evelyn Gordon.
 
“The first obvious lesson of these stories is that Gaza’s “humanitarian crisis” is a fiction propagated by UN bureaucrats, “human rights” organizations and complicit journalists,” Gordon goes on to state.

In the immortal words of Jimmy Cricket......."Here, there's more"


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161010
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theticklemister

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Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2012, 03:04:49 PM »
30 people in my street have an iphone. There are 30 people in my street.

The inhumanity amongst people on this board still surprises me.

seafoid

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Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2012, 03:12:08 PM »
Quote
iPhone 5 Frenzy in Gaza Despite So-Called 'Harsh Blockade'

Apple’s pricey new iPhone 5 is selling like hotcakes in Gaza despite inflated prices and Israel's so-called "harsh blockade."
 

AAFont Size
 By Rachel Hirshfeld
First Publish: 10/17/2012, 10:25 AM
 



iphones being sold in Gaza

Reuters
 

Apple’s pricey new iPhone 5 is selling like hotcakes in the Gaza Strip despite inflated prices and is being smuggled into the Hamas-ruled enclave even before it has reached Israel.
 
The latest version of Apple’s sought-after iPhone is being sold for almost double its price in the United States, ranging from 4,500 Israeli shekels ($1,170) for the 16-gigabyte model to 5,700 ($1,480) for 64 gigabytes.
 
Its price has increased significantly due to middlemen who smuggle the smartphones into Gaza via tunnels linking the territory with Egypt.
 
The iPhone 5 will not be available until December from mobile operators in Israel, which along with Egypt maintains a limited blockade of Gaza in order to prevent the smuggling of weapons, which will then be directed against Israel by terrorists in Gaza.
 
The phones, however, have already been available for a couple of weeks in the Hamas-ruled territory and were on display on Monday in three independent mobile stores in Gaza City.

“I ordered 30 and I've sold 20 so far,” one dealer said, according to Al-Arabiya, “we can order as many as we want, but most people are waiting for the price to go down, they're pretty expensive.”

The iPhone 5, launched last month, sells for $650 and $850 for the 16 and 64-gigabyte versions respectively in the United States.

But the hefty mark-ups and high costs are not preventing buyers from purchasing the revered product.
 
One of the dealers in Gaza, where Apple has no store or official dealership, said “there are always some people prepared to pay whatever they must, just to be the first to have the latest thing.”

“This, you’ll recall, is the same Gaza that UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon characterized in an address to the UN Human Rights Council last month as suffering ‘unremitting poverty’ due to Israel’s ‘harsh’ blockade, a humanitarian crisis so grave that he devoted more of his speech to Gaza and the Palestinians than he did to the slaughter in Syria, where the death toll is over 30,000 and rising daily. It’s also the same Gaza that a UN report in August said would be ‘unliveable’ by 2020 if the blockade continued,” explains Commentary Magazine’s Evelyn Gordon.
 
“The first obvious lesson of these stories is that Gaza’s “humanitarian crisis” is a fiction propagated by UN bureaucrats, “human rights” organizations and complicit journalists,” Gordon goes on to state.

In the immortal words of Jimmy Cricket......."Here, there's more"


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161010

1. By Rachel hirsfeld -any idea what religion ?
2 Israel national news - the settler website
3 “The first obvious lesson of these stories is that Gaza’s “humanitarian crisis” is a fiction propagated by UN bureaucrats, “human rights” organizations and complicit journalists,” Gordon goes on to state.

Why are 80% of Gazans dependent on the UN for their daily nutrition ?

I think Gaza will be the issue that tears Judaism apart. Israel's behaviour towards Gaza is so blatantly evil and pharoah like that the
whole framework of Jewish morality will be unable to defend it.
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

Ball DeBeaver

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Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2012, 03:22:17 PM »
http://unitycoalitionforisrael.org/video/vtemp.php?id=0136

Oh the suffering...... I've seen worse shops in the Kennedy Centre FFS.


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