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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: give her dixie on October 17, 2012, 01:29:42 PM

Title: The Palestine thread
Post by: give her dixie on October 17, 2012, 01:29:42 PM
From the "only democracy in the middle east", or "God's chosen people" as they like to call themselves.......

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/2-279-calories-per-person-how-israel-made-sure-gaza-didn-t-starve.premium-1.470419

After a three-and-a-half-year legal battle waged by the Gisha human rights organization, the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories has finally released a 2008 document that detailed its "red lines" for "food consumption in the Gaza Strip."

The document calculates the minimum number of calories necessary, in COGAT's view, to keep Gaza residents from malnutrition at a time when Israel was tightening its restrictions on the movement of people and goods in and out of the Strip, including food products and raw materials. The document states that Health Ministry officials were involved in drafting it, and the calculations were based on "a model formulated by the Ministry of Health ... according to average Israeli consumption," though the figures were then "adjusted to culture and experience" in Gaza.


COGAT, appealing a District Court ruling to release the document, stated that it was merely a rough draft, that it was never actually implemented, and that it did not guide Israeli policy in practice. In its objection to the document's publication, COGAT argued that there was no reason to disclose what was essentially internal staff work, a mere proposal that was never actually put into effect. In fact, COGAT told Haaretz on Tuesday, after the document was drafted, the agency never even held a single discussion of it.

But the court disagreed, and on its orders, the document (in two different versions, both from January 2008) was given to Gisha two weeks ago. It is now being published here for the first time. Its very existence was also first reported in Haaretz, in a June 2009 article by Uri Blau and Yotam Feldman.

In September 2007, the cabinet, then headed by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, decided to tighten restrictions on the movement of people and goods to and from the Gaza Strip. The "red lines" document was written about four months afterward.

The cabinet decision stated that "the movement of goods into the Gaza Strip will be restricted; the supply of gas and electricity will be reduced; and restrictions will be imposed on the movement of people from the Strip and to it." In addition, exports from Gaza would be forbidden entirely. However, the resolution added, the restrictions should be tailored to avoid a "humanitarian crisis."

At a High Court hearing on Gisha's petition against this policy, government attorneys Gilad Sherman and Dana Briskman, backed by an affidavit from Col. Shlomi Mukhtar of COGAT, explained that "it is the state's right to decide that it doesn't intend to have economic ties with, or provide economic assistance to, the other party in the conflict, and to adopt a policy of 'economic warfare.'"

The "red lines" document calculates the minimum number of calories needed by every age and gender group in Gaza, then uses this to determine the quantity of staple foods that must be allowed into the Strip every day, as well as the number of trucks needed to carry this quantity. On average, the minimum worked out to 2,279 calories per person per day, which could be supplied by 1,836 grams of food, or 2,575.5 tons of food for the entire population of Gaza.

Bringing this quantity into the Strip would require 170.4 truckloads per day, five days a week.

From this quantity, the document's authors then deducted 68.6 truckloads to account for the food produced locally in Gaza ­ mainly vegetables, fruit, milk and meat. The documents note that the Health Ministry's data about various products includes the weight of the package (about 1 to 5 percent of the total weight) and that "The total amount of food takes into consideration 'sampling' by toddlers under the age of 2 (adds 34 tons per day to the general population)."

From this total, 13 truckloads were deducted to adjust for the "culture and experience" of food consumption in Gaza, though the document does not explain how this deduction was calculated.

While this adjustment actually led to a higher figure for sugar (five truckloads, compared to only 2.6 under the Health Ministry's original model),
it reduced the quantity of fruits and vegetables (18 truckloads, compared to 28.5), milk (12 truckloads instead of 21.1), and meat and poultry (14 instead of 17.2).

Altogether, therefore, COGAT concluded that Israel needed to allow 131 truckloads of food and other essential products into Gaza every day (via the "back to back" system, in which goods are transferred from an Israeli truck to a Palestinian one at the border). Of these, 106 would go through the Kerem Shalom crossing and the rest via the Karni crossing (which was closed a few years later).

The document states that then-Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai had approved the entry of 106 trucks per day even before the "red lines" were calculated, along with additional truckloads of wheat seed and animal feed.

The point of the "red lines" document was to see if this number of trucks in fact met Gaza's needs. But according to Gisha, UN data shows that the number of trucks allowed into Gaza each day often fell below this level.

COGAT, then headed by Maj. Gen. Amos Gilad, translated the government's policy of restrictions into two lists. The long one detailed the forbidden goods that couldn't be brought into the Strip (including, for example, building materials, needles, cloth and other raw materials, cleaning and bathing supplies, books, musical instruments and processed hummus). The short one listed those that could be brought in. The guiding principle was that instead of the supply of goods being dictated by demand, it would be dictated by the quantities and varieties deemed necessary by COGAT.

From time to time, COGAT officers revised the lists. Thus in late 2008, for instance, COGAT began allowing the import of shampoo ­ though conditioner was still banned. In 2009, plain processed hummus was taken off the banned list, but hummus with pine nuts was still off-limits.

To obey the cabinet's order to avoid a "humanitarian crisis," COGAT officers devised what they called "sensors" to warn them if there was a risk of impending malnutrition or an impending shortage of the permitted goods. Thus in addition to the "red lines," they produced two other documents: a model for estimating inventories of essential staples in Gaza, and a procedure for allowing the entry of goods into the Strip.

In practice, COGAT says, policy was guided by the inventory estimation model and the procedure for the entry of goods, not by the "red lines" document.

Following another petition to the High Court by Gisha, these two documents were published by Haaretz in October 2010.

"The quantification wasn't done in order to arrive at a minimum threshold or restrict the quantities, but the opposite ­ to ensure that there was no shortage," a COGAT official maintained Tuesday.

Gisha, however, doubts the claim that the "red lines" document was never actually used. For instance, it said, the prosecution evidently relied on the minimum threshold the document sets for meat (300 calves imported each week) when it argued in court against Gisha's request that the quota be increased during the Eid al-Fitr holiday, at the end of Ramadan. COGAT responded that this particular figure was part of the inventory estimation model, and therefore that it was in use.

International humanitarian organizations use a model called the Sphere standards to gauge a population's needs and determine the aid that should be sent to it in an emergency (whether war or natural disaster). This model is far more complex and less mathematical than the "red lines." But the most significant difference is that the "red lines" and the inventory estimation model were both devised by the very party that deliberately created the emergency situation, and that effectively controls both the territory and the population.

The drafters of the "red lines" document noted that the quantity of fruit and vegetables Gaza could produce for itself was expected to decline from 1,000 tons a day to 500 within a few months, due to the Israeli ban on bringing in seeds and other raw materials needed for agriculture, as well as the ban on exporting produce from the Strip. They predicted a similar fate for the poultry industry. But they didn't propose any solution for this decline.

Robert Turner, UNRWA's director of operations in the Gaza Strip, told Haaretz that he "read the draft with concern. If this reflects an authentic policy intended to cap food imports, this 'red lines' approach is contrary to humanitarian principles. If it is intended to prevent a humanitarian crisis by setting a minimum threshold, it has failed."

UNRWA, as the UN agency responsible for aiding Palestinian refugees, is closely involved in the daily lives of some 1 million residents of the Gaza Strip. Based on this knowledge, Turner asserted that "The facts on the ground in Gaza demonstrate that food imports consistently fell below the red lines.

Had official crossings been the only channel of food imports in the Gaza Strip and UN agencies not ensured that a minimal share of food reached the poorest, the recorded level of imports would have resulted in a substantial aggravation of nutritional deficiencies in the Gaza Strip."

Moreover, he said, the model failed to take into account the food lost due to the "back to back" trucking system: Sacks of food routinely break open and spill as they are being transferred from one truck to the other. This loss alone, Turner said, cost UNRWA about $5 million a year.

Asked whether the situation in Gaza is better today, now that the ban on the entry of food and most other goods has been lifted, Turner said that as long as the ban on exports remains in force, the "unprecedented levels of 'man made' aid dependency" will remain in force as well.

Attorney Sari Bashi of Gisha said Israel's claim that it isn't responsible for Gaza's population is clearly in contradiction with the fact that "it can determine the amount and types of food that will be found in the markets. This control obligates it to refrain from restrictions on movement that don't answer a concrete security need ­ an obligation that isn't being met by the current policy."

The Health Ministry did not respond to Haaretz's questions about its involvement in writing the document.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 17, 2012, 03:13:41 PM
Gaza is no longer occupied by Israel, my arse.

Some Yom Kippur the chosen people will atone for what they currently are doing to Gaza.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 17, 2012, 04:54:39 PM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2012/sep/11/black-ballet-gaza-proms-andy-murray

• It should be clear from Robert Turner's report on the outlook for Gaza (An early warning, 10 September) that the purpose of Israel's policy is what it always has been: to make Gaza uninhabitable for Palestinians.
Lyndon Pugh
Brecon, Powys
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 17, 2012, 05:50:35 PM
Quote
October 17, 2012


 Amid rising unemployment and economic crisis, Gazans are queuing up to buy the Apple iPhone 5, willing to pay double its price, officials said.
 
The iPhones, sent from Dubai, are smuggled into Gaza via tunnels from Egypt, reaching the enclave before its neighbor Israel, al-Arabiya said Wednesday.
 
The cutting edge smart phone is being sold for nearly double the price in the United States, and cost $1,170 to $1,480 in Gaza, compared with $650 to $850 in the United States, the network said.
 
"I ordered 30 and have sold 20 so far. We can order as many as we want, but most people are waiting for the price to go down. They are pretty expensive," a dealer told the pan-Arab network.
 
Transport and handling costs for all imports are inflated by bribes paid in Egypt to facilitate the smuggling of goods into the area where 1.6 million live and Hamas also imposes sales tax on goods making it more expensive, the network said.
 
The iPhone will not be available until December in Israel. Apple has no official store or dealership in Gaza
 

http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/2012/10/17/iphone_5_a_hit_in_gaza.htm (http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/2012/10/17/iphone_5_a_hit_in_gaza.htm)

If things are so bad in gaza, then how come they can afford to pay $1000 for an iphone. I can't even afford that. FFS
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: armaghniac on October 17, 2012, 06:54:21 PM

Quote
If things are so bad in gaza, then how come they can afford to pay $1000 for an iphone. I can't even afford that. FFS

"I ordered 30 and have sold 20 so far. We can order as many as we want, but most people are waiting for the price to go down.

So they've sold 30, that really proves things are great in Gaza.  Whoopee.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 17, 2012, 07:37:34 PM
It shows that things are so bad that they have the ready cash to splash on iphones. But they claim to be starving.

How many calories are in an iphone?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: armaghniac on October 17, 2012, 08:31:07 PM
Quote
t shows that things are so bad that they have the ready cash to splash on iphones.

It shows that 30 people have the money to spend on an iPhone. What does that prove about everyone else?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 18, 2012, 01:13:37 AM
It shows that things are so bad that they have the ready cash to splash on iphones. But they claim to be starving.

How many calories are in an iphone?

People in Gaza use the iphone for many things, and mainly to cover events on the ground via video like the relentless bombardment in the past 5 days that have left 5 people dead, bringing t5he total this year to over 70. Or to document the constant harasment of farmers and fishermen who are denied access to the sea and their land to farm. Others use in much the same way as the millions of others do, to send and receive calls and texts.

To try and defend the mass starvation of 1.5 million people by saying things are grand, sure 30 people have an iphone is pathetic and shows a serious lack of humanity on your behalf.

 
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Agent Orange on October 18, 2012, 04:08:21 AM
If there is one good thing to come out of this, I'd say instances of obeisity in Gaza are few and far between.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: johnneycool on October 18, 2012, 08:27:00 AM
If there is one good thing to come out of this, I'd say instances of obeisity in Gaza are few and far between.

Why not throw in a gag about the Nazi gas chambers as well for good measure?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: stew on October 18, 2012, 02:16:08 PM
Quote
October 17, 2012


 Amid rising unemployment and economic crisis, Gazans are queuing up to buy the Apple iPhone 5, willing to pay double its price, officials said.
 
The iPhones, sent from Dubai, are smuggled into Gaza via tunnels from Egypt, reaching the enclave before its neighbor Israel, al-Arabiya said Wednesday.
 
The cutting edge smart phone is being sold for nearly double the price in the United States, and cost $1,170 to $1,480 in Gaza, compared with $650 to $850 in the United States, the network said.
 
"I ordered 30 and have sold 20 so far. We can order as many as we want, but most people are waiting for the price to go down. They are pretty expensive," a dealer told the pan-Arab network.
 
Transport and handling costs for all imports are inflated by bribes paid in Egypt to facilitate the smuggling of goods into the area where 1.6 million live and Hamas also imposes sales tax on goods making it more expensive, the network said.
 
The iPhone will not be available until December in Israel. Apple has no official store or dealership in Gaza
 

http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/2012/10/17/iphone_5_a_hit_in_gaza.htm (http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/2012/10/17/iphone_5_a_hit_in_gaza.htm)

If things are so bad in gaza, then how come they can afford to pay $1000 for an iphone. I can't even afford that. FFS

How can you read what GHD posted and make that statement???

I am sure, just like in Oireland that there are wealthy Palestinians......................... at least 30 of them! ;)
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 18, 2012, 02:33:16 PM
Quote
iPhone 5 Frenzy in Gaza Despite So-Called 'Harsh Blockade'

Apple’s pricey new iPhone 5 is selling like hotcakes in Gaza despite inflated prices and Israel's so-called "harsh blockade."
 

AAFont Size
 By Rachel Hirshfeld
First Publish: 10/17/2012, 10:25 AM
 



iphones being sold in Gaza

Reuters
 

Apple’s pricey new iPhone 5 is selling like hotcakes in the Gaza Strip despite inflated prices and is being smuggled into the Hamas-ruled enclave even before it has reached Israel.
 
The latest version of Apple’s sought-after iPhone is being sold for almost double its price in the United States, ranging from 4,500 Israeli shekels ($1,170) for the 16-gigabyte model to 5,700 ($1,480) for 64 gigabytes.
 
Its price has increased significantly due to middlemen who smuggle the smartphones into Gaza via tunnels linking the territory with Egypt.
 
The iPhone 5 will not be available until December from mobile operators in Israel, which along with Egypt maintains a limited blockade of Gaza in order to prevent the smuggling of weapons, which will then be directed against Israel by terrorists in Gaza.
 
The phones, however, have already been available for a couple of weeks in the Hamas-ruled territory and were on display on Monday in three independent mobile stores in Gaza City.

“I ordered 30 and I've sold 20 so far,” one dealer said, according to Al-Arabiya, “we can order as many as we want, but most people are waiting for the price to go down, they're pretty expensive.”

The iPhone 5, launched last month, sells for $650 and $850 for the 16 and 64-gigabyte versions respectively in the United States.

But the hefty mark-ups and high costs are not preventing buyers from purchasing the revered product.
 
One of the dealers in Gaza, where Apple has no store or official dealership, said “there are always some people prepared to pay whatever they must, just to be the first to have the latest thing.”

“This, you’ll recall, is the same Gaza that UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon characterized in an address to the UN Human Rights Council last month as suffering ‘unremitting poverty’ due to Israel’s ‘harsh’ blockade, a humanitarian crisis so grave that he devoted more of his speech to Gaza and the Palestinians than he did to the slaughter in Syria, where the death toll is over 30,000 and rising daily. It’s also the same Gaza that a UN report in August said would be ‘unliveable’ by 2020 if the blockade continued,” explains Commentary Magazine’s Evelyn Gordon.
 
“The first obvious lesson of these stories is that Gaza’s “humanitarian crisis” is a fiction propagated by UN bureaucrats, “human rights” organizations and complicit journalists,” Gordon goes on to state.

In the immortal words of Jimmy Cricket......."Here, there's more"


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161010 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161010)
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: theticklemister on October 18, 2012, 03:04:49 PM
30 people in my street have an iphone. There are 30 people in my street.

The inhumanity amongst people on this board still surprises me.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 18, 2012, 03:12:08 PM
Quote
iPhone 5 Frenzy in Gaza Despite So-Called 'Harsh Blockade'

Apple’s pricey new iPhone 5 is selling like hotcakes in Gaza despite inflated prices and Israel's so-called "harsh blockade."
 

AAFont Size
 By Rachel Hirshfeld
First Publish: 10/17/2012, 10:25 AM
 



iphones being sold in Gaza

Reuters
 

Apple’s pricey new iPhone 5 is selling like hotcakes in the Gaza Strip despite inflated prices and is being smuggled into the Hamas-ruled enclave even before it has reached Israel.
 
The latest version of Apple’s sought-after iPhone is being sold for almost double its price in the United States, ranging from 4,500 Israeli shekels ($1,170) for the 16-gigabyte model to 5,700 ($1,480) for 64 gigabytes.
 
Its price has increased significantly due to middlemen who smuggle the smartphones into Gaza via tunnels linking the territory with Egypt.
 
The iPhone 5 will not be available until December from mobile operators in Israel, which along with Egypt maintains a limited blockade of Gaza in order to prevent the smuggling of weapons, which will then be directed against Israel by terrorists in Gaza.
 
The phones, however, have already been available for a couple of weeks in the Hamas-ruled territory and were on display on Monday in three independent mobile stores in Gaza City.

“I ordered 30 and I've sold 20 so far,” one dealer said, according to Al-Arabiya, “we can order as many as we want, but most people are waiting for the price to go down, they're pretty expensive.”

The iPhone 5, launched last month, sells for $650 and $850 for the 16 and 64-gigabyte versions respectively in the United States.

But the hefty mark-ups and high costs are not preventing buyers from purchasing the revered product.
 
One of the dealers in Gaza, where Apple has no store or official dealership, said “there are always some people prepared to pay whatever they must, just to be the first to have the latest thing.”

“This, you’ll recall, is the same Gaza that UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon characterized in an address to the UN Human Rights Council last month as suffering ‘unremitting poverty’ due to Israel’s ‘harsh’ blockade, a humanitarian crisis so grave that he devoted more of his speech to Gaza and the Palestinians than he did to the slaughter in Syria, where the death toll is over 30,000 and rising daily. It’s also the same Gaza that a UN report in August said would be ‘unliveable’ by 2020 if the blockade continued,” explains Commentary Magazine’s Evelyn Gordon.
 
“The first obvious lesson of these stories is that Gaza’s “humanitarian crisis” is a fiction propagated by UN bureaucrats, “human rights” organizations and complicit journalists,” Gordon goes on to state.

In the immortal words of Jimmy Cricket......."Here, there's more"


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161010 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161010)

1. By Rachel hirsfeld -any idea what religion ?
2 Israel national news - the settler website
3 “The first obvious lesson of these stories is that Gaza’s “humanitarian crisis” is a fiction propagated by UN bureaucrats, “human rights” organizations and complicit journalists,” Gordon goes on to state.

Why are 80% of Gazans dependent on the UN for their daily nutrition ?

I think Gaza will be the issue that tears Judaism apart. Israel's behaviour towards Gaza is so blatantly evil and pharoah like that the
whole framework of Jewish morality will be unable to defend it.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 18, 2012, 03:22:17 PM
http://unitycoalitionforisrael.org/video/vtemp.php?id=0136 (http://unitycoalitionforisrael.org/video/vtemp.php?id=0136)

Oh the suffering...... I've seen worse shops in the Kennedy Centre FFS.


Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: theticklemister on October 18, 2012, 03:46:07 PM
Can ye source an objective site..................
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 18, 2012, 03:47:00 PM
http://unitycoalitionforisrael.org/video/vtemp.php?id=0136 (http://unitycoalitionforisrael.org/video/vtemp.php?id=0136)

Oh the suffering...... I've seen worse shops in the Kennedy Centre FFS.
There were shops in Castlebar selling chocolate while people were dying of hunger in the town in the 1840s .
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 18, 2012, 04:05:38 PM
Can ye source an objective site..................

I'm sorry, were the pictures NOT taken in Gaza Mall? Does it not show what certain people don't want you to know about?

The source has feck all squared to do with it.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 18, 2012, 04:10:14 PM
http://unitycoalitionforisrael.org/video/vtemp.php?id=0136 (http://unitycoalitionforisrael.org/video/vtemp.php?id=0136)

Oh the suffering...... I've seen worse shops in the Kennedy Centre FFS.


Ball DeBeaver, I have been posting for a few years now about Gaza, and have had many a debate with people on many issues. One thing we never had to deal with is people who think that it funny to see people suffering under a man made inhumane situation. There are many things that can be said, but one thing that can't be said is that the situation is funny. It's anything but.

Have a read at the article, which is a from a very well respected newspaper in Israel, Harratz. What are your thoughts on their plan to put 1.5 million people on a diet that contained just enough calories to stop them from dying. Now ask yourself, what kind of people would do such a thing? And is it really funny?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 18, 2012, 04:18:21 PM
You do realise that there are 2 land borders with Gaza? Wht is there no outcry over the inhumane treatment that the Egyptians are causing in Gaza?
It suits Egypt to have the world to see Israel as the ones that are causing suffering to Gaza. Why doesn't Egypt open their border?

You start telling it straight, and I'll let it go. Don't leave out the bits that don't suit your agenda. 

If anyone thinks for one second I'm going to let them have a free ride on this, they're sadly mistaken.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 18, 2012, 04:53:53 PM
A bit of a read, but goes to show that it isn't quite as bad as we are lead to believe.


Written by an Egyptian, no less.  ::)

Quote
In an article in the Egyptian daily Al-Ahram on the economic situation in the Gaza Strip, journalist Ashraf Abu Al-Houl wrote about the burgeoning recreation industry and of the low merchandise prices.
 
Also as part of the interest in the economic situation in Gaza, the PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida published articles describing the expensive resorts that have been established for Gaza’s newly rich, and a Palestinian website reported on the new mall recently opened in the city.
 
The following are excerpts from the articles:
 
Stores Overflow with Goods
 
Journalist Ashraf Abu Al-Houl wrote in Al-Ahram: “I was last in Gaza in mid-February. Returning three weeks ago, I found it almost unrecognizable… and the greatest surprise was the nature of that change. I would have expected a change for the worse, considering the blockade – but the opposite was the case; it seemed as if it had emerged from the blockade.
 
“A sense of absolute prosperity prevails, as manifested by the grand resorts along and near Gaza’s coast. Further, the sight of the merchandise and luxuries filling the Gaza shops amazed me. Merchandise is sold more cheaply than in Egypt, although most of it is from the Egyptian market, and there are added shipping costs and costs for smuggling it via the tunnels – so that it could be expected to be more expensive.
 
“Before I judge by appearances, which can be misleading… [I would like to point out that] I toured the new resorts, most of which are quite grand, as well as the commercial markets, to verify my hypothesis. The resorts and markets have come to symbolize prosperity, and prove that the siege is formal or political, not economic. The reality [in Gaza] proves that the siege was broken even before Israel’s crime against the ships of the Freedom Flotilla in late May; everything already was coming into the Gaza Strip from Egypt. If this weren’t the case, businessmen would not have been able to build so many resorts in under four months.”
 
Significantly Lower Prices
 
began my search for the truth regarding the siege in Rafah, at the Saturday market, which was loaded with large quantities of merchandise and products of various kinds – at prices mostly lower than in Egypt, particularly for food products. Nevertheless, there weren’t many customers, and this for two reasons: One, supply is much greater than demand, and two, the workers were all waiting to get paid their wages.
 
“Business owner Abu Yousuf stood at his shop surrounded by hundreds of cans of food. Their price had dropped significantly in the past two months; in some cases by as much as 50%. Clothing vendor Abu Muhammad Al-Masri noted that there was an unprecedented glut on the clothing market in the Gaza Strip. Clothing comes into Gaza from two sources: the tunnels, which provide large quantities, and the border crossings to Israel, via which even more goods arrive, most of which piled up at Ashdod port [and are now coming into the Strip]. He clarified that the merchants wanted to sell [lots of] goods to get back some of their money… and so had increased the supply in the markets, leading to lower prices.
 
“During my tour of the Rafah and Khan Younis markets, I noticed that the merchants were drastically marking down their merchandise, so as to get rid of goods smuggled in through the tunnels, and to prevent heavy losses… after Israel has decided to allow in Israeli and imported goods, as part of Israeli government measures to ease the blockade following the Freedom Flotilla massacre.
 
“Despite the drop in price due to the plethora of goods in the Gaza markets, the residents sense that even lower prices are on the way, due to the easing of the Israeli blockade. The consumers are carefully watching prices, [particularly for] smuggled electrical appliances and cars, and refrain from buying, expecting that merchandise will arrive via the border crossings [leading to a further drop in prices].
 
“A Gaza car showroom salesman said that he hoped to sell off his inventory and that he was not bringing in any new vehicles for fear of heavy losses, because Israel had decided to allow vehicles into Gaza for the first time since 2006. Anyone walking in the Gaza streets will see hundreds, if not thousands, of cars that entered Gaza from Egypt via the tunnels, and some of them are stolen. At the home and kitchen appliance dealers, there is a tempting array of all kinds of smuggled goods that sellers want to get rid of, due to the ongoing information about new products that Israel has decided to allow into to the city… ”
 
Resorts for the Nouveau Riche
 
“The Gaza resorts paint a picture of prosperity enjoyed by only a few groups, most of which have become rich from the blockade, because they either own tunnels or else work for the many international organizations in Gaza, headed by UNRWA.
 
“The Gaza resorts are divided into several [categories], each of which has its own price range. This is not like it used to be, when all the tables on the beach were for the use of all the residents… I noticed that most of the resorts set a certain price for the tables near the sea, and a different price for tables farther away. This is in addition to high fees to enter the resort – no less than NIS 20 – and each activity within the [grounds] has its own fee. In short, a family visit, with a sandwich for each child, can cost up to NIS 500.
 
“Several months ago, Gaza had only one luxury resort, Zahrat Al-Madain. Today, another one opens up every day, such as Crazy Water, Aqua Park, and Al-Bustan. Most of them are owned by members, or associates, of Hamas. In addition, the Hamas municipalities [also] charge high fees, in Gaza terms, for the use of public beaches.”
 
“‘Aed Yaghi, senior official of the Al-Mubadara Al-Wataniyya party, which is headed by Palestinian Legislative Council member Mustafa Al-Barghouti, said, ‘These resorts make you wonder. It is logical to invest when times are good – but when Gaza is suffering under siege and there is a possibility of renewed aggression [by Israel], no one knows what profitability there is in building resorts.’
 
“Walid Al-’Awwad, a member of the Palestinian People’s Party political bureau, said, ‘In the past two years, money-laundering has flourished in Gaza, as reflected by the construction of numerous resorts – all of which belong to influential individuals who participate in trafficking via the tunnels. Compared to the tunnel owners’ increasing wealth, the [status] of the [established] wealthy families has waned… The spread of the grand resorts reflects the emergence of a bourgeoisie. Some of the fluidity in the Gaza market stems from the activity of clandestine elements – distributors of drugs, arms, and tunnel merchandise.’
 
“Human rights activist and political correspondent Mustafa Ibrahim said, ‘Building resorts in the north [of the Strip] is contrary to the most fundamental principles of investment, because they are in regions exposed to shelling and destruction, due to the unceasing Israeli threats. Thus, veteran investors don’t dare invest in this area. The elements behind the investment [in the north], who are sometimes hasty, rely on profits from trafficking via the tunnels for funding… This huge investment in the leisure industry is taking place today in Gaza at a time when 80% of the residents depend on aid from UNRWA and other organizations, and unemployment is at 45%. This creates a distorted picture, particularly when merchandise is piling up in the shops in a way that does not reflect the economic situation. Perhaps the current government created this distorted situation in order to show that it had succeeded in breaking the siege…”
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 18, 2012, 05:25:52 PM
You do realise that there are 2 land borders with Gaza? Wht is there no outcry over the inhumane treatment that the Egyptians are causing in Gaza?
It suits Egypt to have the world to see Israel as the ones that are causing suffering to Gaza. Why doesn't Egypt open their border?

You start telling it straight, and I'll let it go. Don't leave out the bits that don't suit your agenda. 

If anyone thinks for one second I'm going to let them have a free ride on this, they're sadly mistaken.

Gaza is occupied by Israel. Jews in Israeli uniform control what Gazans feed their kids.
The territory will be more than likely uninhabitable by 2020 according to the UN.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/08/un-gaza-to-be-unlivable-by-2020-unless-serious-action-taken.html

Why would a GAA supporter want to see this happen? 
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: theticklemister on October 18, 2012, 05:31:27 PM
All GAA supporters are not socialists
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 18, 2012, 05:35:12 PM
All GAA supporters are not socialists
But not so many are Nazis either
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 18, 2012, 05:39:51 PM
Balldebeaver takes most of her stuff from memri

http://www.memri.org/report/en/print4482.htm

So I guess either she's a troll or she's working in the Israeli embassy.

Israel is losing the PR war in the west and it's vital to keep the flag flying on places like the GAAboard.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: armaghniac on October 18, 2012, 06:09:58 PM
Quote
It suits Egypt to have the world to see Israel as the ones that are causing suffering to Gaza.

You'll have to get your story straight. Your contributions have been mostly along the lines that life isn't so bad in Gaza after all because of stuff coming in over the Eygptian border!
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 18, 2012, 06:20:01 PM
Quote
It suits Egypt to have the world to see Israel as the ones that are causing suffering to Gaza.

You'll have to get your story straight. Your contributions have been mostly along the lines that life isn't so bad in Gaza after all because of stuff coming in over the Eygptian border!
23 posts in total and most of them are about Gaza.
Very fishy
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 18, 2012, 06:32:49 PM
Quote
It suits Egypt to have the world to see Israel as the ones that are causing suffering to Gaza.

You'll have to get your story straight. Your contributions have been mostly along the lines that life isn't so bad in Gaza after all because of stuff coming in over the Eygptian border!
Don't you mean smuggled under the Egyptian border. YOU are the one that needs to get their story straight.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 18, 2012, 06:34:49 PM
You do realise that there are 2 land borders with Gaza? Wht is there no outcry over the inhumane treatment that the Egyptians are causing in Gaza?
It suits Egypt to have the world to see Israel as the ones that are causing suffering to Gaza. Why doesn't Egypt open their border?

You start telling it straight, and I'll let it go. Don't leave out the bits that don't suit your agenda. 

If anyone thinks for one second I'm going to let them have a free ride on this, they're sadly mistaken.

Gaza is occupied by Israel. Jews in Israeli uniform control what Gazans feed their kids.
The territory will be more than likely uninhabitable by 2020 according to the UN.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/08/un-gaza-to-be-unlivable-by-2020-unless-serious-action-taken.html

Why would a GAA supporter want to see this happen?

I think you had better tell Hamas about all the Jews in uniform they have working for them in Gaza. You haven't the foggiest, have you?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 18, 2012, 06:40:46 PM
You do realise that there are 2 land borders with Gaza? Wht is there no outcry over the inhumane treatment that the Egyptians are causing in Gaza?
It suits Egypt to have the world to see Israel as the ones that are causing suffering to Gaza. Why doesn't Egypt open their border?

You start telling it straight, and I'll let it go. Don't leave out the bits that don't suit your agenda. 

If anyone thinks for one second I'm going to let them have a free ride on this, they're sadly mistaken.

Gaza is occupied by Israel. Jews in Israeli uniform control what Gazans feed their kids.
The territory will be more than likely uninhabitable by 2020 according to the UN.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/08/un-gaza-to-be-unlivable-by-2020-unless-serious-action-taken.html

Why would a GAA supporter want to see this happen?

I think you had better tell Hamas about all the Jews in uniform they have working for them in Gaza. You haven't the foggiest, have you?
i see hasbara all the time. You all spout the same crap.

"There is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza"

Why would you want a GAAboard account just for this? 
Why is it so important to defend the indefensible?   
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: dec on October 18, 2012, 06:56:12 PM
You do realise that there are 2 land borders with Gaza? Wht is there no outcry over the inhumane treatment that the Egyptians are causing in Gaza?
It suits Egypt to have the world to see Israel as the ones that are causing suffering to Gaza. Why doesn't Egypt open their border?

You start telling it straight, and I'll let it go. Don't leave out the bits that don't suit your agenda. 

If anyone thinks for one second I'm going to let them have a free ride on this, they're sadly mistaken.

Gaza is occupied by Israel. Jews in Israeli uniform control what Gazans feed their kids.
The territory will be more than likely uninhabitable by 2020 according to the UN.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/08/un-gaza-to-be-unlivable-by-2020-unless-serious-action-taken.html

Why would a GAA supporter want to see this happen?

I think you had better tell Hamas about all the Jews in uniform they have working for them in Gaza. You haven't the foggiest, have you?
i see hasbara all the time. You all spout the same crap.

"There is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza"

Why would you want a GAAboard account just for this? 
Why is it so important to defend the indefensible?   

He signed up in 2006.
His first contribution on Gaza was yesterday.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 18, 2012, 07:13:32 PM
SSSSSHH! I'm really an Israeli spy.  8)
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Mike Sheehy on October 18, 2012, 08:33:53 PM
All GAA supporters are not socialists
But not so many are Nazis either

well we all know of at least one fella with a nazi level of hatred toward jews....hmmm...I wonder who that would be ?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 19, 2012, 02:59:09 PM
I really don't know how these poor people survive on their meager rations.


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Or where they can lay their hands on building materials, as it's impossible to come by in Gaza.

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Would anyone like to see the pictures of either of the new 5 star hotels recently built? The holiday resorts? The amusement park? The multitude of new houses.


Food is not as scarce as the propogandists would have you believe. Building materials are in short supply, mainly because of the amount of building work going on, not just the economic blockade that has been imposed.

These photos are not taken from a zionist website. They are not part of any propoganda campaign. They are photos of everyday life in the Warsaw ghetto/Gaza strip.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 19, 2012, 04:17:18 PM
I really don't know how these poor people survive on their meager rations.


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Or where they can lay their hands on building materials, as it's impossible to come by in Gaza.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Would anyone like to see the pictures of either of the new 5 star hotels recently built? The holiday resorts? The amusement park? The multitude of new houses.


Food is not as scarce as the propogandists would have you believe. Building materials are in short supply, mainly because of the amount of building work going on, not just the economic blockade that has been imposed.

These photos are not taken from a zionist website. They are not part of any propoganda campaign. They are photos of everyday life in the Warsaw ghetto/Gaza strip.
It's very hard to understand that Israel has money for white phosphorous in Gaza while its own Jewish kids don't have enough to eat

 http://www.meirpanim.net/campaign/2010/rh2010/clean.htm
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 19, 2012, 04:40:01 PM
Israel isn't trying to con the world into thinking that the Palestinians are starving Israeli kids.


Are you and GHD going to continue the lie that Palestinian kids are starving because of the blockade?


There is hunger in EVERY country on this planet. Gaza is not unique.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 19, 2012, 05:10:27 PM
Israel isn't trying to con the world into thinking that the Palestinians are starving Israeli kids.


Are you and GHD going to continue the lie that Palestinian kids are starving because of the blockade?


There is hunger in EVERY country on this planet. Gaza is not unique.
Gaza is a micromanaged catastrophe.
There are 1.5 million people in Gaza. 80% of them depend on aid for food.


Gaza is Israel's dirty secret.

http://www.medialens.org/alerts/10/101117_put_the_palestinians.php
The released documents, whose existence Israel had denied for eighteen months, reveal that the state approved “a policy of deliberate reduction” of basic goods, including food and fuel, in the Gaza Strip.

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/TOPICS/EXTCY/EXTECD/0,,contentMDK:20207804~menuPK:528430~pagePK:148956~piPK:216618~theSitePK:344939,00.html

 Does undernutrition impair behavioral development?

Poor nutrition during intrauterine life and early years leads to profound and varied effects including:
- Delayed physical growth and motor development
- General effects on cognitive development resulting in lower IQs (lower by 15 points or more in the severely malnourished)
- Greater degree of behavioral problems and deficient social skills at school age
- Decreased attention, deficient learning, and lower educational achievement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18436602
Gaza's sewage system is "completely broken".

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israeli-scientists-find-new-strain-of-mrsa-bacteria-spreading-in-gaza-city.premium-1.437002

Israeli scientists find new strain of MRSA bacteria spreading in Gaza City

http://www.ewash.org/en/?view=79YOcy0nNs3Du69tjVnyyumIu1jfxPKNuunzXkRpKQN7IwQaTRTG
•   Gaza water too contaminated to drink, say charities (BBC News)

10 per cent of Gazan children are so malnourished that their development is permanently stunted


Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 19, 2012, 05:23:38 PM
http://unitycoalitionforisrael.org/video/vtemp.php?id=0136 (http://unitycoalitionforisrael.org/video/vtemp.php?id=0136)

Oh the suffering...... I've seen worse shops in the Kennedy Centre FFS.


Ball DeBeaver, I have been posting for a few years now about Gaza, and have had many a debate with people on many issues. One thing we never had to deal with is people who think that it funny to see people suffering under a man made inhumane situation. There are many things that can be said, but one thing that can't be said is that the situation is funny. It's anything but.

Have a read at the article, which is a from a very well respected newspaper in Israel, Harratz. What are your thoughts on their plan to put 1.5 million people on a diet that contained just enough calories to stop them from dying. Now ask yourself, what kind of people would do such a thing? And is it really funny?

You obviously don't know the difference between having enough to survive and having enough to live healthily, or you are deliberately distorting the facts.

Quote

Adults
 
The U.S. Department of Agriculture recommends...
 2,000 calories a day for women between the ages of 19 and 30;
1,800 calories for women between the ages of 31 to 50; and
1,600 calories for women 51 and older.
 The USDA recommends 2,400 calories a day for men between the ages of 19 and 30;
 2,200 calories for men between the ages of 31 and 50;
 and 2,000 calories for men 51 and older.

These figures are for a healthy lifestyle. NOT a diet with "just enough calories to stop them from dying".

A footballers caloric intake....
Quote
Calculations
 
According to "Food Guide for Soccer," to calculate your calorie needs estimate the baseline of calories you need for your resting metabolic rate by multiplying 10 times your weight in pounds; say, 1,500 if you weigh 150 pounds. Add another 50 percent if you are active apart from soccer, or 750 calories. Add 600 calories for each hour of soccer training and if you play a full, highly competitive game, add 1,100 calories if you are female and 1,500 if you are male. Thus, an active player weighing 150 pounds on a day with a one-hour practice needs a calorie intake of about 2,850: 1,500 for his resting metabolic rate, 750 for daily activities and 600 for training.


Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/446441-caloric-intake-for-soccer-players/#ixzz29lKMmozH

When you look at these figures then 2279 calories per person per day, isn't that far off the mark for what they need. Don't forget, not all are young adults, who require more than children and the elderly.



FACTS, NOT FICTION. FACTS, NOT MISINFORMATION.

Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: nifan on October 19, 2012, 06:00:21 PM
Quote
Have a read at the article, which is a from a very well respected newspaper in Israel, Harratz. What are your thoughts on their plan to put 1.5 million people on a diet that contained just enough calories to stop them from dying.

Surely the figure of 2279 is the correct average intake across men and women in order to maintain weight.
It is far from starving.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 19, 2012, 06:08:26 PM
Quote
Have a read at the article, which is a from a very well respected newspaper in Israel, Harratz. What are your thoughts on their plan to put 1.5 million people on a diet that contained just enough calories to stop them from dying.

Surely the figure of 2279 is the correct average intake across men and women in order to maintain weight.
It is far from starving.

And the poor who don't have the money to pay for food? Would everyone in a society have access to the same number of calories if less than 2300 is the average for the whole territory ? Mothers who are so weak they can't breastfeed their kids and have no money to pay for formula, for example.

10% of kids are stunted because of Israeli policy.

Israel is a disgrace. 
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 19, 2012, 06:11:24 PM
Palestinians are different though. They need more calories than a professional footballer.
 ;)



 

Gaza is a micromanaged catastrophe.
There are 1.5 million people in Gaza. 80% of them depend on aid for food.
Depending on who you believe, 60% of them are said to be unemployed, so that figure could very well be correct.

Quote
Gaza is Israel's dirty secret.

http://www.medialens.org/alerts/10/101117_put_the_palestinians.php
The released documents, whose existence Israel had denied for eighteen months, reveal that the state approved “a policy of deliberate reduction” of basic goods, including food and fuel, in the Gaza Strip.

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/TOPICS/EXTCY/EXTECD/0,,contentMDK:20207804~menuPK:528430~pagePK:148956~piPK:216618~theSitePK:344939,00.html

 Does undernutrition impair behavioral development?

Poor nutrition during intrauterine life and early years leads to profound and varied effects including:
- Delayed physical growth and motor development
- General effects on cognitive development resulting in lower IQs (lower by 15 points or more in the severely malnourished)
- Greater degree of behavioral problems and deficient social skills at school age
- Decreased attention, deficient learning, and lower educational achievement.
      Who is being undernourished?
Quote
Children require several things to help them grow into healthy adults, including exercise, sleep and proper nutrition. However, determining how many calories children need at the various stages of development is often a difficult task.
 
Infants
 
After a diet of only milk for the first four to six months, iron-fortified cereals, fruit, vegetables and meats are introduced. A diet containing 500 to 700 calories is usually sufficient. It should not be low-fat unless recommended by your pediatrician. The American Academy of Pediatrics has stated that a healthy amount of fat is important for babies' brain and nerve development.
 

Toddlers
 
Toddlers are in constant motion and can become very opinionated about what they want to eat. Care needs to be paid to the quality of their diet, with emphasis on avoiding empty calories. Children this age generally require 1,000 to 1,100 calories per day.
 
Preschool
 
The age of the picky eater often continues into the preschool years. About 1,200 to 1,400 calories per day is sufficient.
 
School Age
 
School-age children often ingest too much sugar, fat and salt. About 1,600 to 1,800 calories per day will provide the energy needed to fuel the brain and body.
 
Adolescents
 
Teens are often very conscious of their appearance, and this sometimes leads to eating disorders. Adolescents need 1,800 to 2,200 calories per day to fuel the many changes taking place.


Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/28424-many-calories-children-need/#ixzz29lSVfMCt




                         
Quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18436602
Gaza's sewage system is "completely broken".
   Haven't you been watching the news about the floods all over the UK and Ireland. The sewers in this part of the world are crap too.                                                   

Quote

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israeli-scientists-find-new-strain-of-mrsa-bacteria-spreading-in-gaza-city.premium-1.437002

Israeli scientists find new strain of MRSA bacteria spreading in Gaza City
New strains of disease are discovered spreading all over the west too.

Quote
http://www.ewash.org/en/?view=79YOcy0nNs3Du69tjVnyyumIu1jfxPKNuunzXkRpKQN7IwQaTRTG
•   Gaza water too contaminated to drink, say charities (BBC News)
          The drinking water in much of Europe is so contaminated it has to be boiled.  Would you drink from a tap in Spain?                       
Quote

10 per cent of Gazan children are so malnourished that their development is permanently stunted
I refer you again to my second answer.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 19, 2012, 06:47:28 PM
Palestinians are different though. They need more calories than a professional footballer.
 ;)



 

Gaza is a micromanaged catastrophe.
There are 1.5 million people in Gaza. 80% of them depend on aid for food.
Depending on who you believe, 60% of them are said to be unemployed, so that figure could very well be correct.

Quote
Gaza is Israel's dirty secret.

http://www.medialens.org/alerts/10/101117_put_the_palestinians.php
The released documents, whose existence Israel had denied for eighteen months, reveal that the state approved “a policy of deliberate reduction” of basic goods, including food and fuel, in the Gaza Strip.

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/TOPICS/EXTCY/EXTECD/0,,contentMDK:20207804~menuPK:528430~pagePK:148956~piPK:216618~theSitePK:344939,00.html

 Does undernutrition impair behavioral development?

Poor nutrition during intrauterine life and early years leads to profound and varied effects including:
- Delayed physical growth and motor development
- General effects on cognitive development resulting in lower IQs (lower by 15 points or more in the severely malnourished)
- Greater degree of behavioral problems and deficient social skills at school age
- Decreased attention, deficient learning, and lower educational achievement.
      Who is being undernourished?
Quote
Children require several things to help them grow into healthy adults, including exercise, sleep and proper nutrition. However, determining how many calories children need at the various stages of development is often a difficult task.
 
Infants
 
After a diet of only milk for the first four to six months, iron-fortified cereals, fruit, vegetables and meats are introduced. A diet containing 500 to 700 calories is usually sufficient. It should not be low-fat unless recommended by your pediatrician. The American Academy of Pediatrics has stated that a healthy amount of fat is important for babies' brain and nerve development.
 

Toddlers
 
Toddlers are in constant motion and can become very opinionated about what they want to eat. Care needs to be paid to the quality of their diet, with emphasis on avoiding empty calories. Children this age generally require 1,000 to 1,100 calories per day.
 
Preschool
 
The age of the picky eater often continues into the preschool years. About 1,200 to 1,400 calories per day is sufficient.
 
School Age
 
School-age children often ingest too much sugar, fat and salt. About 1,600 to 1,800 calories per day will provide the energy needed to fuel the brain and body.
 
Adolescents
 
Teens are often very conscious of their appearance, and this sometimes leads to eating disorders. Adolescents need 1,800 to 2,200 calories per day to fuel the many changes taking place.


Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/28424-many-calories-children-need/#ixzz29lSVfMCt




                         
Quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18436602
Gaza's sewage system is "completely broken".
   Haven't you been watching the news about the floods all over the UK and Ireland. The sewers in this part of the world are crap too.                                                   

Quote

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israeli-scientists-find-new-strain-of-mrsa-bacteria-spreading-in-gaza-city.premium-1.437002

Israeli scientists find new strain of MRSA bacteria spreading in Gaza City
New strains of disease are discovered spreading all over the west too.

Quote
http://www.ewash.org/en/?view=79YOcy0nNs3Du69tjVnyyumIu1jfxPKNuunzXkRpKQN7IwQaTRTG
•   Gaza water too contaminated to drink, say charities (BBC News)
          The drinking water in much of Europe is so contaminated it has to be boiled.  Would you drink from a tap in Spain?                       
Quote

10 per cent of Gazan children are so malnourished that their development is permanently stunted
I refer you again to my second answer.
Troll. People are dying in Gaza because of the Jewish state and you want to rise people.

Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 19, 2012, 07:06:05 PM
Instead of throwing insults, why don't you prove me wrong?

As for people dying, would you like me to post the stats regarding the ratio of combatants v civilian casualties? Using every other conflict on the planet, the Israelis seem to be very restrained in their targetting.

Quote
Civilian casualty ratio
 
The civilian casualty ratio of the targeted killings was surveyed by Haaretz military journalist Amos Harel. In 2002 and 2003, the ratio was 1:1, meaning one civilian killed for every terrorist killed. Harel called this period "the dark days" because of the relatively high civilian death toll as compared to later years. He attributed this to an Israeli Air Force (IAF) practice of attacking terrorists even when they were located in densely populated areas. While there were always safety rules, argued Harel, these were "bent" at times in view of the target's importance.[18]
 
The civilian casualty ratio dropped steeply to 1:28 in late 2005, meaning one civilian killed for every 28 terrorists killed. Harel credited this drop to the new IAF chief Eliezer Shkedi's policies. The ratio rose again in 2006 to 1:10, a fact that Harel blamed on "several IAF mishaps". However, in 2007 and 2008 the ratio dropped to an unprecedented level of less than 1:30, or 2–3 percent of the total casualties being civilian.[18] Figures showing an improvement from 1:1 in 2002 to 1:30 in 2008 were also cited by Jerusalem Post journalist Yaakov Katz.[19]
 
Professor Alan Dershowitz of Harvard Law School stated that the 2008 figure of 1:30 represents the lowest civilian to combatant casualty ratio in history in the setting of combating terrorism. Dershowitz criticized the international media and human rights organizations for not taking sufficient note of it. He also argued that even this figure may be misleading because not all civilians are innocent bystanders.[20]
 

In October 2009, Dershowitz stated that the ratio for Israel's campaign of targeted killings of terrorists stood at 1 civilian for every 28 terrorists. He argued that "this is the best ratio of any country in the world that is fighting asymmetrical warfare against terrorists who hide behind civilians. It is far better than the ratio achieved by Great Britain and the United States in Iraq or Afghanistan, where both nations employ targeted killings of terrorist leaders." Regarding the practices which might have led to this record and the reasons the civilian death rate nevertheless remained above zero, Dershowitz cited Col. Richard Kemp's statements on the Gaza War:[21]
 

[f]rom my knowledge of the IDF and from the extent to which I have been following the current operation, I don’t think there has ever been a time in the history of warfare when any army has made more efforts to reduce civilian casualties and deaths of innocent people than the IDF is doing today in Gaza... Hamas, the enemy they have been fighting, has been trained extensively by Iran and by Hezbollah, to fight among the people, to use the civilian population in Gaza as a human shield... Hamas factor in the uses of the population as a major part of their defensive plan. So even though as I say, Israel, the IDF, has taken enormous steps...to reduce civilian casualties, it is impossible, it is impossible to stop that happening when the enemy has been using civilians as human shields.
 
However, in a July 2011 article published in the Michigan War Studies Review, "Targeted Killings: A Modern Strategy of the State", A.E. Stahl and William F. Owen wrote that casualty ratios and death counts in general should be initially considered with dubiety. Stahl and Owen state: "A caveat: reported death counts and casualty ratios should be approached with skepticism. Statistics are too easy to manipulate for political purposes, vitiating arguments based on them."[18]
 
The Israeli Human Rights organization B'Tselem carries out their own investigations on fatalities in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and does not rely on official IDF statistics. According to B'Tselem statistics Israeli targeted killings claimed 425 Palestinian lives between September 2000 and August 2011. Of these, 251 persons (59.1 percent) were the targeted individuals and 174 (40.9 percent) were civilian bystanders. This implies a ratio of civilians to targets of 1:1.44 during the whole period.[22]

I know, it's wiki. But there's not a lot of impartial material out there.


On the other hand, rockets fired from Gaza aren't just as accurate.  ::)
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: dec on October 19, 2012, 07:27:31 PM
Instead of throwing insults, why don't you prove me wrong?

As for people dying, would you like me to post the stats regarding the ratio of combatants v civilian casualties? Using every other conflict on the planet, the Israelis seem to be very restrained in their targetting.

Quote
...
Professor Alan Dershowitz of Harvard Law School stated that the 2008 figure of 1:30 represents the lowest civilian to combatant casualty ratio in history in the setting of combating terrorism. Dershowitz criticized the international media and human rights organizations for not taking sufficient note of it. He also argued that even this figure may be misleading because not all civilians are innocent bystanders.[20]
 
...
I know, it's wiki. But there's not a lot of impartial material out there.


On the other hand, rockets fired from Gaza aren't just as accurate.  ::)

Wikipedia is perfectly respectable and I am sure it is quoting Professor Dershowitz's words correctly.

I am also sure that the wikipedia article on him is a fairly accurate representation of his views on Israel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Dershowitz#On_Israel
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 19, 2012, 07:38:06 PM
He's perfectly entitled to hold that view, and seeing as he does, it only goes to strengthen the veracity of his statement.   

And I quote.......

Professor Alan Dershowitz of Harvard Law School stated that the 2008 figure of 1:30 represents the lowest civilian to combatant casualty ratio in history in the setting of combating terrorism. Dershowitz criticized the international media and human rights organizations for not taking sufficient note of it. He also argued that even this figure may be misleading because not all civilians are innocent bystanders
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: dec on October 19, 2012, 07:41:32 PM
He's perfectly entitled to hold that view, and seeing as he does, it only goes to strengthen the veracity of his statement.   

And I quote.......

Professor Alan Dershowitz of Harvard Law School stated that the 2008 figure of 1:30 represents the lowest civilian to combatant casualty ratio in history in the setting of combating terrorism. Dershowitz criticized the international media and human rights organizations for not taking sufficient note of it. He also argued that even this figure may be misleading because not all civilians are innocent bystanders

Did you actually read the link. How does his very pro Israel viewpoint "strengthen the veracity of his statement"?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 19, 2012, 08:56:17 PM
http://www.haaretz.com/news/idf-in-gaza-killing-civilians-vandalism-and-lax-rules-of-engagement-1.272379

During Operation Cast Lead, Israeli forces killed Palestinian civilians under permissive rules of engagement and intentionally destroyed their property, say soldiers who fought in the offensive.



http://www.countercurrents.org/lendman240709.htmOperation Cast Lead Testimonies

One soldier said:

"....In training you learn that white phosphorus is not used, and you're taught that it's not humane. You watch films and see what it does to people who are hit, and you say, 'There, we're doing it too.' That's not what I expected to see. Until that moment I had thought that I belonged to the most humane army in the world."

Other testimonies describe white phosphorous used in densely populated neighborhoods, wanton killing and destruction "unrelated to any direct threat to Israeli forces, and permissive rules of engagement that led to the killing of innocents."

More comments reflected the "moral deterioration" of the army and Israeli society, even affecting the rabbinate that blessed mass slaughter and destruction prior to engagements.

Soldier testimonies bear witness to disturbing Israeli values "on a systemic level." Operation Cast Lead's rein of terror was "a direct result of IDF policy, and especially (its) rules of engagement (that sanction) shoot (first) and (don't) ask questions."

Breaking the Silence participants offered their testimonies as "an urgent call to Israeli society and its leaders to sober up and investigate anew the results of our actions....(a disturbing) slide together down the moral slippery slope" that affects them and all Jews globally.

Testimony 1 - Human Shield

People are called "Johnnie. They're Palestinian civilians" in Gaza neighborhoods. In checking out houses, "we send the neighbor in, the 'Johnnie,' and if there are armed men inside, we (use) 'pressure cooker' procedures....to get them out alive....to catch the armed men." When necessary, combat helicopters are called in to fire anti-tank missiles at civilian homes. Then send a "Johnnie" in to check for dead and wounded.

In one home, two were dead and another alive, so supersized Caterpillar D-9 bulldozers start "demolishing the house over him until the neighbor went in" and got him out.

Human shields were also used to check for booby-traps and perform other services. "Sometimes the force would enter while placing rifle barrels on a civilian's shoulder, advancing into the house and using him as a human shield. Commanders said these were the instructions and we had to do it."

Testimony 2 - House Demolitions

Residential buildings at strategic points were taken over by force. Neighborhoods were described with "lots of destroyed houses....ruins....more and more ruins, and even the houses still standing, most of them kept getting shelled...." Other houses were blasted....blown "up in the air" with explosives.

"Operational necessity" sometimes meant a whole neighborhood was destroyed so as "not to jeopardize Israeli soldiers (and with) the day after" in mind, meaning to disrupt Gaza life to the maximum and leave it that way after forces pulled out.

Testimony 3 - Rules of Engagement

Descriptions included "enter(ing) a yard and out of sheer fear the family was waiting in an exposed spot - a father, grandfather, young mother and babies. As we were coming in, the commander was firing a volley, and mistakenly killed an innocent. We got to the house....he goes in with live fire....the family was hiding from the bombings....he happened to kill an elderly guy....it really seems insane....if I look at it from the (other) side, there are people who deserve to go to jail."

Testimony 4 - Rules of Engagement & Home Occupation

Tactics taught are "dry" and "wet" entries. In Gaza, there was "no such thing as a dry entry. All entries were wet," meaning free-firing with missiles, tank shells, machine guns, grenades, everything. On the ground, wet entry orders were to "shoot as we enter a (house or) room (so) no one there could fire at us."

Testimony 5 - Atmosphere

What "bothered me? Many things....all that destruction. All that fire at innocents. This shock of realizing with whom I'm in this together....the hatred, and the joy of killing....I killed a terrorist....blew his head off....There's nothing to hold you back." They're just Arabs.

Testimony 6 - Bombardment

The new 120mm Mortar was used in Gaza with "95 - 100%" accuracy. When it hits, it scatters shrapnel all around. It was used against neighborhoods. Innocents were hit, and "our artillery fire there was insane...."

"Most of the time firing was for softening resistance I think....We simply received orders. If we hit terrorists, then I guess that was the purpose."

Testimony 7 - Rules of Engagement

The commander stressed using "fire power" from the air and on the ground. "You see something and you're not quite sure? You shoot....Fire power was insane. We went in and the booms were just mad. The minute we got to our starting line, we simply began to fire at suspect places....a house, a window....In urban warfare, anyone is your enemy. No innocents." Houses were taken over with soldiers positioned inside "according to plan."

Testimony 8 - Rules of Engagement & Use of White Phosphorous

Some of the younger soldiers "think it's cool to wield such power with no one wanting to rein them in. They (were given) permission to open fire" even at most people who "definitely (are) not terrorists." Free fire used all weapons against "everything (including) houses," whether or not they looked suspect. "I know (that some) crews....even fired white phosphorous. Our battalion mortars (and tanks) were also using phosphorous."

Sometimes an order was given: "Permitted, phosphorous in the air." At times, it was used "because it's fun. Cool. I don't understand what it's used for."

Testimony 9 - Rules of Engagement & House Demolitions

"From the onset....the brigade commander and other officers made it very clear to us that any movement must entail gunfire" with or without being shot at. Alerts were given about a suicide bomber or sniper in the area, but "none of (these) materialized as far as our company was concerned."

"Houses were demolished everywhere." They were fired at "with tremendous power. We didn't see a single house that remained intact....The entire infrastructure, tracks, fields, roads (were) in total ruin." D-9 bulldozers demolished everything "in our designated area. It looked awful, like in those World War II films where nothing remained. A totally destroyed city."

Testimony 10 - Briefings

Formal briefings covered "going off to war (and in war) no consideration of civilians was to be taken. Shoot anyone you see....this pretty much disgusted me. There was a clear feeling, and this was repeated whenever others spoke to us, that no humanitarian consideration played any role in the army at present."

Language used in one briefing was something like: "Don't let morality become an issue. That will come up later. Leave the nightmares and horrors that will come up for later, now just shoot."

Testimony 11 - Use of White Phosphorous & Rules of Engagement

"We walked (with another battalion) and saw all the white phosphorous bombs....we saw glazing on the sand (resulting) from white phosphorous (use), and it was upsetting." Houses were targeted and many around them were destroyed with people inside them.

Testimony 12 - Rules of Engagement

Moving into an area, orders were to "hold the junction, control it." Vehicle movement wasn't allowed and those advancing were fired on. Whole areas were abandoned. In entering houses, strict procedure is followed, including "setting red lines. It means that whoever crosses this line is shot, no questions asked." Orders always were shoot to kill, including women and children.

Testimonies 13 and 14 - Rules of Engagement

Houses were entered with gunfire and taken over. Some civilians were killed. Anyone out at night was called a terrorist even if it was clear he had no weapons.

Testimonies 15 and 16 - Rabbinate Unit

Promoting "Jewish Awareness," rabbis talked with soldiers and gave out materials, the Book of Psalms and some brochures. War got a religious tone against "four enemies:" Hamas, Iran, the Palestinian Authority even though it doesn't control Gaza, and Arab citizens of Israel. Rabbinate briefings said "they (all) undermine us."

Also that Israel was fighting a "war of choice, (a) holy war (with) differing rules." The message "aimed at inspiring the men with courage, cruelty, aggressiveness (and feeling) no pity, God protects you, everything you do is sanctified....Palestinians are the enemy....everyone."
Soldiers were told to be "crusaders," to have a "proper fighting spirit," and show no mercy. Distributed pamphlets said: "Palestinians are like the Philistines of old, newcomers who do not belong in the land, aliens planted on our soil which should clearly return to us."

One man introduced as Rabbi Chen presented his talk in points, also covered in pamphlets. First was "the sanctity of the People of Israel. He put it this way: he said while going in there, we should know there is no accounting for sins in this case." In other words, "whatever we do is fine."
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 19, 2012, 10:48:29 PM
http://www.juancole.com/2012/10/creepy-israeli-planning-for-palestinian-food-insecurity-in-gaza-revealed.html

An Israeli human rights organization, Gisha, sued in Israeli courts to force the release of a planning document for ‘putting the Palestinians on a diet’ without risking the bad press of mass starvation, and the courts concurred. The document, produced by the Israeli army, appears to be a calculation of how to make sure, despite the Israeli blockade, that Palestinians got an average of 2279 calories a day, the basic need. But by planning on limiting the calories in that way, the Israeli military was actually plotting to keep Palestinians in Gaza (half of them children) permanently on the brink of malnutrition, what health professionals call “food insecurity”. And, it was foreseeable that sometimes they would slip into malnutrition, since not as many trucks were always let in every day as the Israeli army recommended (106 were recommended, but it was often less in the period 2007-2010).

Planning for keeping people on the edge is nearly as bad as planning actually to starve them. A prudent person would know that a blockade is a blunt enough instrument, with shipments up and down in a given week, that such a policy would from time to time produce real misery. Were any physicians involved? They should be boycotted by the international community.

And, the Israeli army’s way of trying to minimize the document must be the worst example of propaganda in history! They are saying that the plan was produced but not consulted. But this document aimed at making sure just enough trucks got in to keep people on the edge. If the government didn’t consult it, does that mean it did not care if the food shipments slipped below the basic calorie allowance? Wouldn’t it have been better if they had known about the 106-truck recommendation?

The food blockade had real effects. About ten percent of Palestinian children in Gaza under 5 have had their growth stunted by malnutrition.

A recent report [pdf] by Save the Children and Medical Aid for Palestinians found that, in addition, anemia is widespread, affecting over two-thirds of infants, 58.6 percent of schoolchildren, and over a third of pregnant mothers.

I mean, don’t those figures make you want to do something for those mothers and children? Wouldn’t they melt anyone’s heart?


A UN Report out last month predicts that if Israel does not change its policies toward Gaza, the strip will be uninhabitable by 2020, when the population will likely be 2.1 million (think Houston).
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Mike Sheehy on October 20, 2012, 02:30:45 AM
Seafoid, seriously, Why do you hate jews..?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 20, 2012, 03:45:15 AM
Which rules of engagement do the Palestinians adhere to?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 20, 2012, 08:40:48 AM
Which rules of engagement do the Palestinians adhere to?
Whataboutery isn't an acceptable defence in international law. Israel is obliged to follow the Geneva Conventions regarding the treatment of civilians in war and it doesn't do so.

Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 20, 2012, 08:54:06 AM
Mike Sheehy

Wonderful to see you back. Maybe some day you could actually make a point.

Did you know that the O Donovans in Gnieveguillia had a great grandmother from Gaza on the mother's side? She got married to an Ambrose O Donovan who was serving in the British Army in 1918 after the fall of the Ottoman empire. The wedding was in Beer Sheva. 

Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 21, 2012, 01:26:58 PM
Hopefully before the end of the year, this documentary, "Shalom Belfast" will be shown on BBC. I was interviewed a couple of times for it, and didn't hold back on my views......

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/how-the-irish-view-the-israel-palestinian-conflict.premium-1.471003

How the Irish view the Israel-Palestinian conflict

In the first part of the documentary "Shalom Belfast?" the filmmaker Ithamar Handelman Smith comes to visit what he calls two of the shadier pubs in Belfast. Alongside the flags of the United Kingdom and of Northern Ireland, a number of Israeli flags are on display. They seem to generate great enthusiasm from the patrons.

"I was shot three times and blew up twice. They blew up my car and I lost a child at 5 years of age," relates one of the people at the bar, Steve Mailin. "They blew my car up, killed my child and it turned me nasty. Then I went to ..."

"To avenge [his death]?" asks the interviewer, and Mailin nods.

When Mailin is asked about the understanding the loyalist Protestants like himself in Northern Ireland evince for Israel, he explains: "The vast majority of that community could sympathize with Israel. Israel is an example for the rest of the world, and I think all Israelis are brilliant people ... I will die for Israel, if needed, not a problem. The only place that I can put close to my heart would be Israel, because it is oppressed, nobody likes them, and nobody likes us."

When Handelman Smith directs his camera at the other side - at extremist Catholics - their support is for the Palestinians. Extremists on both sides of the violent and long-standing conflict in Northern Ireland who choose to take sides in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict repeatedly mention the similarities between the two hate-filled clashes.

"Shalom Belfast?" was screened last week at the Tel Aviv Cinematheque and will be broadcast tomorrow (Saturday evening ) on Channel 8. Israeli-born Handelman Smith, a journalist and writer, began working on the film, his first, three years ago when he moved to the capital of Northern Ireland. His wife got a job with the British Council there and he joined her.

"Ever since I was a child, I loved certain Irish bands, like the Pogues, and I romanticized Ireland," he related, in a recent interview in Tel Aviv. "I was interested in the idea of a Western European country that's still stuck in a civil war and a conflict that is somewhat reminiscent of our own conflict. I was interested in the idea that the Irish Catholics are like the 'Palestinians of Europe,' at least in their own mind: an occupied people, robbed of its land and rights, with very strong anti-British sentiments. But I also was anxious because I had never been there and it was clear to me that this place wouldn't be like it is in books and the records of my youth."

In July 2009, he left a broiling-hot Israeli summer and landed straight into a particularly chilly Irish day.

"We landed on July 11 and took a taxi through some especially tough neighborhoods. We saw all the graffiti and the flags and suddenly I was struck by the connection between this place and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I immediately realized there was something I needed to research."

Belfast was covered in flags that day, among them Israeli ones. Handelman Smith had arrived in the city on the day before the most important holiday for the Protestants in Ireland, Orangemen's Day: the day they celebrate King William of Orange's victory over his Catholic cousin King James II in 1690. The Protestants commemorate the occasion date by lighting bonfires and throwing into the flames effigies of the pope, flags of Catholic Ireland (the Republic of Ireland ) - and just to spice things up, some Palestinian flags.

Journalist and writer Handelman Smith, who was born in 1976, wrote and edited for the Israeli press from the time he was 17 years old, mostly focusing on cultural issues; he also published personal columns in Time Out and Akhbar Ha'ir. Over the years he also published four books: a novel, two collections of short stories and one book of poetry (under the name Itamar Ben Canaan ). When he decided to leave Israel and move to Ireland, his friend Aviv Giladi suggested making a film about the move.

"I have always been interested in making films," he said. "I studied cinema in high school and also a bit at the university. I wanted to make a film but I didn't know about what. The moment I landed in Belfast and saw Israeli flags flying in the street I contacted my [Israeli] producers and Channel 8 and told them I thought I had a film."

According to Handelman Smith, 70 percent of the funding for the film comes from British sources; the BBC supported the endeavor along with Channel 8. He relates that the British-American documentary filmmaker Louis Theroux was a main source of inspiration for him as he went out to meet with Irish extremists from both sides - people who range on a scale from hallucinatory to scary, he says. Situations that sometimes were reminiscent of Theroux's experiences among various marginal American sub-cultures arose.

Central figure

Handelman Smith says his intention was to make a straightforward, journalistic documentary and to avoid personal soul-searching. Nevertheless, he does figure prominently in the movie: He leads the documentary journey, converses with the interviewees, argues with them, eggs them on, laughs with them, spends time with them, drinks with them.

"True, I am at the center of the film," he admitted. "After all, I am not just a journalist ... I felt I was part of the story. I encounter [the people in] this story and the film is about how I see them. This is also the angle that interested the Britons who invested in the film. The foundations I applied to in Israel for support expected me to expose my own life, but I wasn't interested in that. Today I am doing everything I can to get away from the image I once had, of a person who is always probing himself. I am tired of it; it doesn't seem interesting to me any more."

He decided that the film would be a personal account of an Israeli filmmaker who comes to Belfast and encounters the strange phenomenon of how the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is reflected in the local conflict. "I pondered a lot about how to build a story around this and in the end it was my wife, Julia Carolyn Ann [Handelman Smith], who gave me the idea: my own journey, in which I go back and forth between the extremes - and try to get everyone to like me."

He and his wife wrote the script together and devoted their whole first year in Belfast to research: "We traveled to every hole in Northern Ireland, we went around to scary pubs and looked for activists, figures whose lives we could follow."

Among the interviewees who appear are, among others, an Irish Protestant who says he feels like an Israeli, decides to convert to Judaism and dreams of moving to a West Bank settlement; a key activist in the Free Gaza movement in Northern Ireland; a Catholic who stands in the city squares wearing a keffiyeh and explaining the plight of the Palestinians; and the head of the "Protestant Messianic Peace Congregation," a church in a chilly coastal town where congregants sing songs in Hebrew, pray for the welfare of the State of Israel, its soldiers and police, and dream of moving one day to live in the Holy Land.

Handelman Smith admits that the encounters with extremists on both sides were sometimes unpleasant.

For example, the conversation with the Protestant paramilitary man Crazy Joe (the nickname for the Steve Mailin mentioned above ) was, he said, "a scary experience. Oddly enough in the Protestants' pubs - where there are supporters of Israel and people are sometimes wrapped in Israeli flags - that's where I felt more on edge. They are soccer hooligans and belong to the British National Front [the extreme right-wing party]: They hate blacks and Muslims and admire Israel because they see in it anti-Muslim might. At all those pubs, they asked me whether I had been in the army and had killed Arabs, and I admit I sometimes had to lie."

Another nerve-racking encounter was with Danny Boyle, a pro-Palestinian terrorist and former member of the Irish Republican Army, who spent 20 years in prison. "I knew he was an extremist, but I didn't know just how extreme. He was terribly violent in his speech. He said Israel had to be burned down and all the Zionists thrown out of there. I'm not a typical Israel who's not scared of anything, but Itai Lev [Handelman Smith's collaborator in the direction of the film] said to him, 'Don't talk that way. Either you talk like a human being or you leave us alone.' So Boyle asked, 'What do you want, to come to my home and drink tea?' And Itai said yes. I got nervous and I asked him in Hebrew, 'Are you crazy? They'll abduct us - this guy works with Hamas.'

"But Itai insisted and we did go to his home, in the scariest neighborhood in Londonderry, which is spookier than Belfast. In the end, only a very small bit of that conversation with him made it into the film. And a month and a half after we met with him, the guy went to prison because he was caught in a car carrying half-a-ton of explosives."

After his extensive investigative journey in Northern Ireland, we wondered, how does Handelman Smith explain the Catholics' extreme support for the Palestinians and the Protestants' backing for Israel?

"Glenn Peterson, an Irish writer I interview in the film, told me something nice," Handelman Smith replied. "When you live in a place like this [Northern Ireland], people look for a context for themselves. They want to think they are not the only ones stuck in a city that's split up according to religion and ethnic origin. They've found a parallel for themselves in Israel and Palestine, and thus feel some sort of identification with that issue.

"After the occupation in 1967, the Catholics became pro-Palestinian and there were close ties between the IRA and the Palestine Liberation Organization. So it's very clear - they really were partners to the Palestinian struggle. On the other side, the Protestants, many of whom are evangelical Christians, are by definition supporters of Israel for religious reasons. Peterson explains that ... in the Orange Lodges [an Irish Protestant fraternal organization], people believe they are descendants of one of the tribes of Israel, the lost 13th tribe. This feeling is embedded deep in their culture.

"Ultimately, Northern Ireland is a very small place, with a lot of madness, and in this sense it is also very similar to Israel," continued Handelman Smith. "In Israel we say there is hardly a single family that doesn't have someone who was wounded in a war or a terror attack. Well, it's that way there too - only there everything is on a smaller scale."

Did Handelman Smith know in advance what awaited him in Northern Ireland? "I knew but I also didn't know. I knew Northern Island is a place with a problematic past, but I also knew there is peace there - there's calm and normal life there ... [But] I was surprised to find that entire communities there are still engaged with their conflict, that there is lively activity surrounding it still. So that too, in fact, is exactly like here."
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: nifan on October 21, 2012, 02:16:14 PM

And the poor who don't have the money to pay for food? Would everyone in a society have access to the same number of calories if less than 2300 is the average for the whole territory ? Mothers who are so weak they can't breastfeed their kids and have no money to pay for formula, for example.

10% of kids are stunted because of Israeli policy.

Israel is a disgrace.

First, I find Israels actions in gaza abhorrent. However this argument with the average calories helps nothing, as it is misreported at best.
the average as i said would be right for adults, but much of the poupulation would be a lot younger and therefore have less needs, easily countering the number of breastfeeding mothers who require what - 600 calories a day extra?
Are you also implying that wealthy palestinians are taking much more than they require and the poor are starving accordingly?

As I say, I dont know all the details here, and im not defending israel, but reporting the average calories above and saying this is just enough to keep them alive is false - 1800 a day average minimum given by  Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 22, 2012, 05:33:18 AM
For some Israelis, Gazans receive 2,279 calories too many

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/for-some-israelis-gazans-receive-2-279-calories-too-many.premium-1.471214

The closet is about to burst from the number of skeletons stuffed inside it. Occasionally one falls out, threatening to wake up complacent Israelis, until it's quickly pushed back inside, out of sight. But the skeletons are still there, deep in the closet, and they will continue to haunt Israelis for many years. One skeleton forced its way out last week: The Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories was forced to hand over its "Red Lines Report," of 2008, in which it calculated the minimum number of calories Gaza residents would need so as not to starve. This followed a successful three-and-a-half year legal battle by the Gisha - Legal Center for Freedom of Movement association. Amira Hass reported on the document, and Haaretz gave it the proper play as its lead story last Wednesday. Some parts of the document had already appeared in Haaretz in 2009, in a report by Uri Blau and Yotam Feldman.

In neither case, however, did the reports raise a storm. The country has plenty of ways (this newspaper being an exception) of burying skeletons deep in the closet so that Israelis shouldn't be overly disturbed. But the skeleton sticking out now belongs to a monster. The COGAT office insists that this was an "internal staff document" and a "working paper" that was never implemented. That's doubtful, but in any case the very fact that work was done and such a working paper was produced is disgusting.

Who came up with the idea of calculating the caloric intake for 1.5 million people under siege? What train of thought even gives Israel the right to enter the mouths and invade the stomachs of the people living under its jackboots? So now it's not just their bedrooms that are brutally broken into every night; now it's also their digestive system.

Even after the writing of this document, Israel continued to brazenly claim that the occupation of Gaza had ended. The very fact that such a document was composed, whether it was used or not, points to a satanic way of thinking. But the reason that army didn't want this document made public had nothing to do with its diabolical content. Nor did it fear a public storm, which it knew wasn't likely to happen in a country afflicted with blindness. The reason the Israel Defense Forces was reluctant to publicize this document was because it would make Israel look even worse in world opinion than it already does. It's a matter of image, you know; the goyim shouldn't find out. It's not nice for the goyim to know how low Israeli racism could sink. The document details the "model formulated by the Health Ministry - according to average Israeli consumption," and the IDF plan for the Palestinians, whose figures were "adjusted to culture and experience" in Gaza. The IDF, the new "Israel food association," knows how to distinguish between what types of foods enlightened types need, and what the savages and natives need. More fruits and vegetables for the enlightened, more sugar and oil for the savages. Since they are so humane, they took into account "'sampling' by toddlers under the age of 2," by adding another 34 tons of food a day as charity that would save them from death. Though the people at the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories made mathematical calculations, from time to time their resolve weakened: At the end of 2008 they approved the entry of shampoo into Gaza, but not conditioner; hummus, but not pine nuts. Imagine that.

Now that the document has been released, it's time to attach names to it. The government headed by Ehud Olmert was the one that in 2007 decided to restrict the entry of goods into Gaza even further. It tightened its grip in an effort to achieve the release of captured soldier Gilad Shalit and to bring down the Hamas regime, but this collective punishment, which is illegal under international law, achieved nothing. Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilna'i, a man of the Labor Party, Atzmaut and the Israel "left," approved the composition of the document. Maj. Gen. Amos Gilad was the Coordinator of Government Activities who ordered the policy to be translated into tables and statistics. Vilna'i and Gilad still serve in senior positions and enjoy public prestige; Olmert was tried on totally unrelated issues. War criminals? Are you kidding? That's a term reserved for Serbs and Congolese.

Of course, there are a lot of Israelis who believe that even the 2,279 daily calories that Israel in its great mercy approved for every Gazan is 2,279 calories too many. If you don't believe me, just ask them.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 22, 2012, 07:52:58 AM
But the Palestinians are just peace loving tree huggers. They wouldn't hurt a fly.  :-X


Just this months rocket attacks on Israel. Although the majority of them don't cause injury, it's only a matter of time before they start to find their range.


October 1
According to the Israel Police, Palestinians fired a rocket into Israel. No injuries or damage were reported.[251]
 October 4
In the evening, according to an Israel Defense Forces spokesperson, Palestinians fired a Qassam rocket into the Ashkelon area.[252]
 October 8
On the morning of the Jewish holiday of Shemini Atzeret, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and other terrorist groups fired more than 50 rockets and mortars into Israel. One of the rockets landed in a petting zoo in the Eshkol Regional Council, killing two goats and wounding nine other goats. A worker stated that the zoo was usually "packed with children" but was empty at the time because of the holiday. A residential building was also damaged, but no human injuries were reported. Israelis in the Eshkol Regional Council were instructed to remain in shelters for several hours. This marked the first time since June that Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip, claimed responsibility for rocket attacks on Israel. The group's stated aim was vengeance against "Zionist crimes"; this was an allusion to an Israeli air strike the previous day against Muhammad Jerbi, a jihadist militant from Rafah, and Abdullah Mohamed Hassan Maqawi, a member of the The Mujahideen Shura Council of Jerusalem, a Gazan militant group.[253][254]
 October 9
Palestinians fired 6 rockets into Israel. No injuries or damage were reported in any of the attacks.
 Around 6 am, a rocket was launched into the Eshkol Regional Council.[255]
 In the afternoon, a Qassam rocket was fired into the Sha'ar Hanegev Regional Council.[256]
 After nightfall, two Qassam rockets landed outside Sderot, and three Grad missiles landed outside Netivot.[255][257]
 
Israel responded with an air strike on an infiltration tunnel in the northern Gaza Strip.[258]
 October 10
In the morning, Palestinians fired a rocket into the Eshkol Regional Council.[259] Another rocket exploded in an open area in the city of Netivot.[260] In the evening, a Grad missile was fired toward Netivot.[261] No injuries or damage were reported in any of the attacks. Israel responded with an air strike on a Hamas training camp, causing no injuries.[262]
 October 12
Around 19:30, Palestinians from the Mujahideen Shura Council in the Environs of Jerusalem fired a Grad missile into Netivot, which exploded in the backyard of a family home. Shrapnel pierced the walls of the home and penetrated a child's bedroom. Though there were no physical injuries, two people were hospitalized for acute stress reaction. Israel responded with an air strike on two Mujahideen Shura Council terrorists riding a motorcycle in the northern Gaza Strip. One was killed and the other was injured.[263][264][265]
 October 14
Palestinians fired two rockets into the Eshkol Regional Council, causing no injuries or damage. In a separate incident, Israeli forces targeted Palestinians terrorists as they were preparing to fire rockets into Israel, killing one and injuring another.[266]
 October 16
Palestinians fired a rocket that landed near a home in the Ashkelon Coast Regional Council. The building was damaged and two people were treated for acute stress reaction. A second rocket landed in an open area in the Lachish Regional Council. Local residents were urged to stay close to bomb shelters. The attacks followed a threat against Israel by Sinai-based Salafist group Ansar Bayt al-Maqdes. Israel responded with an air strike on a base of Hamas' armed wing in the northern Gaza Strip, causing no injuries.[267][268][269]
 October 17
Palestinian terrorists fired at least seven rockets into southern Israel, one of which struck a kindergarten. The building was damaged, but no one was in it at the time and no injuries were caused. The other rockets landed in open areas. Israel returned fire at the source of the rockets and hit some of the terrorists, according to Palestinian media.[270]
 October 18
Palestinians fired a rocket into the Eshkol Regional Council, causing no injuries or damage.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 22, 2012, 08:45:23 AM
Hopefully before the end of the year, this documentary, "Shalom Belfast" will be shown on BBC. I was interviewed a couple of times for it, and didn't hold back on my views......

Presumably you are an "extremist catholic"...

It sounds like another attempt at Hasbara
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 22, 2012, 08:46:43 AM
But the Palestinians are just peace loving tree huggers. They wouldn't hurt a fly.  :-X


Just this months rocket attacks on Israel. Although the majority of them don't cause injury, it's only a matter of time before they start to find their range.


October 1
According to the Israel Police, Palestinians fired a rocket into Israel. No injuries or damage were reported.[251]
 October 4
In the evening, according to an Israel Defense Forces spokesperson, Palestinians fired a Qassam rocket into the Ashkelon area.[252]
 October 8
On the morning of the Jewish holiday of Shemini Atzeret, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and other terrorist groups fired more than 50 rockets and mortars into Israel. One of the rockets landed in a petting zoo in the Eshkol Regional Council, killing two goats and wounding nine other goats. A worker stated that the zoo was usually "packed with children" but was empty at the time because of the holiday. A residential building was also damaged, but no human injuries were reported. Israelis in the Eshkol Regional Council were instructed to remain in shelters for several hours. This marked the first time since June that Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip, claimed responsibility for rocket attacks on Israel. The group's stated aim was vengeance against "Zionist crimes"; this was an allusion to an Israeli air strike the previous day against Muhammad Jerbi, a jihadist militant from Rafah, and Abdullah Mohamed Hassan Maqawi, a member of the The Mujahideen Shura Council of Jerusalem, a Gazan militant group.[253][254]
 October 9
Palestinians fired 6 rockets into Israel. No injuries or damage were reported in any of the attacks.
 Around 6 am, a rocket was launched into the Eshkol Regional Council.[255]
 In the afternoon, a Qassam rocket was fired into the Sha'ar Hanegev Regional Council.[256]
 After nightfall, two Qassam rockets landed outside Sderot, and three Grad missiles landed outside Netivot.[255][257]
 
Israel responded with an air strike on an infiltration tunnel in the northern Gaza Strip.[258]
 October 10
In the morning, Palestinians fired a rocket into the Eshkol Regional Council.[259] Another rocket exploded in an open area in the city of Netivot.[260] In the evening, a Grad missile was fired toward Netivot.[261] No injuries or damage were reported in any of the attacks. Israel responded with an air strike on a Hamas training camp, causing no injuries.[262]
 October 12
Around 19:30, Palestinians from the Mujahideen Shura Council in the Environs of Jerusalem fired a Grad missile into Netivot, which exploded in the backyard of a family home. Shrapnel pierced the walls of the home and penetrated a child's bedroom. Though there were no physical injuries, two people were hospitalized for acute stress reaction. Israel responded with an air strike on two Mujahideen Shura Council terrorists riding a motorcycle in the northern Gaza Strip. One was killed and the other was injured.[263][264][265]
 October 14
Palestinians fired two rockets into the Eshkol Regional Council, causing no injuries or damage. In a separate incident, Israeli forces targeted Palestinians terrorists as they were preparing to fire rockets into Israel, killing one and injuring another.[266]
 October 16
Palestinians fired a rocket that landed near a home in the Ashkelon Coast Regional Council. The building was damaged and two people were treated for acute stress reaction. A second rocket landed in an open area in the Lachish Regional Council. Local residents were urged to stay close to bomb shelters. The attacks followed a threat against Israel by Sinai-based Salafist group Ansar Bayt al-Maqdes. Israel responded with an air strike on a base of Hamas' armed wing in the northern Gaza Strip, causing no injuries.[267][268][269]
 October 17
Palestinian terrorists fired at least seven rockets into southern Israel, one of which struck a kindergarten. The building was damaged, but no one was in it at the time and no injuries were caused. The other rockets landed in open areas. Israel returned fire at the source of the rockets and hit some of the terrorists, according to Palestinian media.[270]
 October 18
Palestinians fired a rocket into the Eshkol Regional Council, causing no injuries or damage.

The collective punishment of 1.5 million people is inconsistent with the moral principles of Judaism. The IRA bombed places in England but the catholics of NI were never denied access to food.
They were never bombed with white phosphorous either.



Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 22, 2012, 11:31:57 AM
Just another day at the office as Israel bomb the shit out of northern Gaza, killing 3 young men and injuring several others. Plus, they attacked a ship in international waters, kidnapping everyone on board, many of whom are European politicians.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 22, 2012, 11:54:52 AM
Just another day at the office as Israel bomb the shit out of northern Gaza, killing 3 young men and injuring several others. Plus, they attacked a ship in international waters, kidnapping everyone on board, many of whom are European politicians.


http://shiptogaza.se/en/Pressrum/Pressmeddelanden/human-consequence-blockade-true-story-pediatrician-henry-ascher

“As a pediatrician and a professor of public health, I strive against elements that limit people’s right to health. In Gothenburg, this primarily means dealing with increasing social inequalities, ignorance concerning the needs of refugees and child refugees and limitations of the right to medical treatment of people not possessing identification papers. In other parts of the world, people are dying as a result of political decisions.
Let’s call her Mona. She is 32 years old and a mother of 2 young children. She discovers two lumps in her breast. Soon she finds out that she has breast cancer. She gets an operation and begins chemotherapy—cytostatics—to kill the remaining cancer cells. She undergoes two treatments and, aside from the usual side effects of chemotherapy, everything goes well.
That’s when the problems start.
At the hospital there is no medicine left and there isn’t any to be found anywhere else. Why? Mona was born and lives in Gaza. Along with 1.6 million other people, most of whom are children, she lives on a small strip of land which is less than one third the size of Öland. For more than five years, Mona and all Gazans have been living under a land and sea blockade enforced by Israel. The import of goods is very restricted and many items are not allowed in at all. Essentially all exports have been halted.

For Mona this has become a question of life and death. She must receive cytostatics in the right amount at the right time in order for her healthy cells to have enough time to regenerate between treatments without the cancer cells having time to spread. She applies to have treatments at a hospital in Israel. Her application is approved and she applies for a permit to cross the Gazan border into Israel. When the day for her treatment arrives, she still has not received her permit to enter Israel. After the hospital puts some pressure on the Israeli authorities, Mona gets her permit some weeks later, but by that time her appointment at the hospital is long gone.
Eventually Mona is finally able to get her third treatment, but several months too late. When it is time for her fourth treatment, the whole charade begins again. She has to wait many months before she gets her fourth treatment. Finally she gives up.
At this point, Mona’s breast cancer should be treated with radiation, but this is impossible—not because Gaza hospitals lack the competence, but because the radio-active substances that are needed are not allowed into Gaza.

After some months, Mona begins to get intense pain in her back. The doctors at the Gazan hospital suspect that her cancer has spread. They want to find out if they are right and to see if the new tumor can be removed, but this diagnostic examination, scintigraphy, requires a weak radio-active isotope, which Israel does not allow into Gaza.

Mona’s story is told by Dr. Rebecka Gardell Abu Asba at a seminar about the health situation in Gaza at Karolinska University Hospital during Almedalen Week. Dr. Gardell Abu Asba met Mona during a visit to Gaza last spring. Unfortunately, Mona is not the only one in this situation. The blockade is often discussed in general political terms. It’s about terrorism, Hamas, fundamentalism and rockets. Mona’s story shows just one of the effects the blockade has on average Gaza citizens. Roughly 12,000 people have been denied travel to Israel for medical treatment. The lack of fuel is also taking a great toll on health care. Diseases also spread, because 90% of the drinking water is polluted and over 90 million liters of water a day run into the Mediterranean without adequate treatment. Why? The import of spare parts for the treatment plants is blocked.

When the Swedish doctor Rebecka Gardell Abu Asba meets Mona in Gaza, she knows that Mona will not live much longer. She is in severe pain, but she doesn’t receive any real treatment for the pain. The medication she needs is not available, since its import is prohibited under the blockade.
I don’t know if Mona is alive today, or if her two young children have become motherless, but I know that she might have had an 80% chance to be cured from her cancer under normal circumstances. Health care in Gaza is high quality and with modern-day breast cancer treatments, the prognosis is good.

Mona’s story brings up many questions. Does access to cancer medicine constitute support for Hamas? Do painkillers for the dying equal support for terrorism? In what way does a block on building materials, which prevents the reconstruction of the schools and homes destroyed by Israel during Operation Cast Lead in 2008-2009, reduce the risk of rocket attacks? And how can spare parts for water plants, sewage treatment plants and power plants be construed as a threat to Israel, one of the world’s strongest military powers?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 22, 2012, 02:17:49 PM
But the Palestinians are just peace loving tree huggers. They wouldn't hurt a fly.  :-X


Just this months rocket attacks on Israel. Although the majority of them don't cause injury, it's only a matter of time before they start to find their range.


October 1
According to the Israel Police, Palestinians fired a rocket into Israel. No injuries or damage were reported.[251]
 October 4
In the evening, according to an Israel Defense Forces spokesperson, Palestinians fired a Qassam rocket into the Ashkelon area.[252]
 October 8
On the morning of the Jewish holiday of Shemini Atzeret, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and other terrorist groups fired more than 50 rockets and mortars into Israel. One of the rockets landed in a petting zoo in the Eshkol Regional Council, killing two goats and wounding nine other goats. A worker stated that the zoo was usually "packed with children" but was empty at the time because of the holiday. A residential building was also damaged, but no human injuries were reported. Israelis in the Eshkol Regional Council were instructed to remain in shelters for several hours. This marked the first time since June that Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip, claimed responsibility for rocket attacks on Israel. The group's stated aim was vengeance against "Zionist crimes"; this was an allusion to an Israeli air strike the previous day against Muhammad Jerbi, a jihadist militant from Rafah, and Abdullah Mohamed Hassan Maqawi, a member of the The Mujahideen Shura Council of Jerusalem, a Gazan militant group.[253][254]
 October 9
Palestinians fired 6 rockets into Israel. No injuries or damage were reported in any of the attacks.
 Around 6 am, a rocket was launched into the Eshkol Regional Council.[255]
 In the afternoon, a Qassam rocket was fired into the Sha'ar Hanegev Regional Council.[256]
 After nightfall, two Qassam rockets landed outside Sderot, and three Grad missiles landed outside Netivot.[255][257]
 
Israel responded with an air strike on an infiltration tunnel in the northern Gaza Strip.[258]
 October 10
In the morning, Palestinians fired a rocket into the Eshkol Regional Council.[259] Another rocket exploded in an open area in the city of Netivot.[260] In the evening, a Grad missile was fired toward Netivot.[261] No injuries or damage were reported in any of the attacks. Israel responded with an air strike on a Hamas training camp, causing no injuries.[262]
 October 12
Around 19:30, Palestinians from the Mujahideen Shura Council in the Environs of Jerusalem fired a Grad missile into Netivot, which exploded in the backyard of a family home. Shrapnel pierced the walls of the home and penetrated a child's bedroom. Though there were no physical injuries, two people were hospitalized for acute stress reaction. Israel responded with an air strike on two Mujahideen Shura Council terrorists riding a motorcycle in the northern Gaza Strip. One was killed and the other was injured.[263][264][265]
 October 14
Palestinians fired two rockets into the Eshkol Regional Council, causing no injuries or damage. In a separate incident, Israeli forces targeted Palestinians terrorists as they were preparing to fire rockets into Israel, killing one and injuring another.[266]
 October 16
Palestinians fired a rocket that landed near a home in the Ashkelon Coast Regional Council. The building was damaged and two people were treated for acute stress reaction. A second rocket landed in an open area in the Lachish Regional Council. Local residents were urged to stay close to bomb shelters. The attacks followed a threat against Israel by Sinai-based Salafist group Ansar Bayt al-Maqdes. Israel responded with an air strike on a base of Hamas' armed wing in the northern Gaza Strip, causing no injuries.[267][268][269]
 October 17
Palestinian terrorists fired at least seven rockets into southern Israel, one of which struck a kindergarten. The building was damaged, but no one was in it at the time and no injuries were caused. The other rockets landed in open areas. Israel returned fire at the source of the rockets and hit some of the terrorists, according to Palestinian media.[270]
 October 18
Palestinians fired a rocket into the Eshkol Regional Council, causing no injuries or damage.

The collective punishment of 1.5 million people is inconsistent with the moral principles of Judaism. The IRA bombed places in England but the catholics of NI were never denied access to food.
They were never bombed with white phosphorous either.
Firing rockets into civilian areas with no guidance is against Islamic teachings.
Rejoicing in the slaughter of innocent children is against everything Islam teaches.
Quote
Palestinians Hand Out Sweets in Celebration of Massacre of Jewish Family
March 12th, 2011 | Author: Un:dhimmi

Hey, let's celebrate our hero baby killer: Palestinian hands out sweets to Hamas policemen in Rafah

Islamic depravity hits bottom. Keeps digging:

Rafah residents hand out candy following massacre of Jewish family, three children in West Bank settlement of Itamar.

Gaza residents from the southern city of Rafah hit the streets Saturday to celebrate the terror attack in the West Bank settlement of Itamar where five family members were murdered in their sleep, including three children.

Residents handed out candy and sweets, one resident saying the joy “is a natural response to the harm settlers inflict on the Palestinian residents in the West Bank.”

Meanwhile, Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad said he “clearly and firmly denounces the terror attack, just as I have denounced crimes against Palestinians.

“We are against all types of violence,” Fayyad said during a tour in Bethlehem. “Our position has not changed. As we have said many times before, we categorically oppose violence and terror, regardless of the identity of the victims or the perpetrators.”

IDF and security forces have been scouring the West Bank area since late Friday night, and have arrested 20 Palestinians from the villages of Awarta, Zababdeh, Sanur and Siliya. The IAF employed unmanned aerial vehicle in an effort to search for the suspects.

The Hamas movement accused the Palestinian Authority’s security apparatus of arresting three of its activists near Qalqilya and Jenin.

“The report of five murdered Israelis is not enough to punish someone,” said Hamas Spokesperson Sami Abu Zuhri, adding, “However; we in Hamas completely support the resistance against settlers who murder and use crime and terror against the Palestinian people under the auspices of the Israeli occupation soldiers.”

A pamphlet distributed by the Islamic group said the PA also detained activists from Nablus, who were previously imprisoned and released.

According to an unverified report, Fatah’s military wing – the al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades – claimed responsibility for the attack. A group spokesman told a Palestinian news agency that a terror cell infiltrated the settlement of Itamar and committed the attack.



Grisly scene: home where the appalling hate crime took place

The spokesperson stressed that the attack “came as a response to Israel’s continues hostile policy toward the Palestinian people.”

‘Give murderers death sentences’
Defense Minister Ehud Barak convened an evaluation session at the Defense Ministry offices in Tel Aviv following the attack. The meeting was attended by IDF Chief of Staff Benny Gantz and other military and intelligence officials.

Barak called on the leaders of Jewish settlements in the West Bank to act responsibly and urged the Palestinian leadership to denounce the attack.

Ron Nachman, mayor of the city of Ariel, arrived in Itamar Saturday noon and expressed anger over the government and defense minister’s conduct.

“We need to find those behind the attack and give them the death penalty. I can’t recall such a horrific terror attack,” he said.

Nachman refused to comment on future “price tag” operations of radical rightist, saying: “I am not responsible for violent acts from either side.”


Palestinian children are still made to 'celebrate' the Ramallah Lynchings today..

This degenerate, ghoulish behaviour, which almost defies belief is, in fact common practice by the Palestinians after murdering Israeli Jews.

The most well-known example was the Ramallah Lynching in 2000, where two IDF soldiers unfortunate to stray into the wrong area were killed and disembowelled in the streets by mobs of screaming Muslims.

To this day, the iconic image of the man holding up his blood-soaked hands to the crowd below him outside the police station where the slaughter took place, is still re-enacted by Palestinian children celebrating the event.

But we’re willing to bet that the average American, German, Scandnavian or Brit is completely unaware of this practice.

Because, in the biased, single-narrative world of the mainstream media, the grisly details of these stories are invariably censored – BBC coverage of this story from today being a prime example.

Stripped of context, it was dressed up as an ‘isolated incident’ – standard procedure in the pro-Muslim, pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel British media. Had things been the other way around however, The BBC would have ensured that we never heard the end of it.

As usual though, they buried this story in the ME section of their website, whereas you can be take to the bank the fact that the slightest perceived transgression by Israel will always make the ‘top stories’ section on the front page.

The lauding of the killer on the al-Qassam webstes and elsewhere – and the street-party-like atmosphere and candy distribution in the disputed territories, will without doubt be buried in the West.

Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 22, 2012, 02:56:02 PM
All you have is  bog standard hasbara.
The Palestinians are not human so  they can be degraded at will.

"This degenerate, ghoulish behaviour, which almost defies belief is, in fact common practice by the Palestinians after murdering Israeli Jews.The most well-known example was the Ramallah Lynching in 2000, where two IDF soldiers unfortunate to stray into the wrong area were killed and disembowelled in the streets by mobs of screaming Muslims".

They were shot in the head. I was in Ramallah at the time. By the time they made it onto the street they were dead.
The soldiers were must'arabeen, soldiers dressed as Palestinians and they were in town to kill someone. 

I seem to recall 2 British soldiers being killed after an incident at Milltown Cemetery in the 1980s but not even the BNP would class all Northern Irish catholics as degenerates.   

To this day, the iconic image of the man holding up his blood-soaked hands to the crowd below him outside the police station where the slaughter took place, is still re-enacted by Palestinian children celebrating the event.

Sounds just like the matzos soaked in the blood of Christian children that Der Sturmer used to mention.  Bullshit.

What is Israel going to do with all  of those unwanted Palestinians? that is the key question.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 22, 2012, 03:08:49 PM
Quote
I seem to recall 2 British soldiers being killed after an incident at Milltown Cemetery in the 1980s but not even the BNP would class all Northern Irish catholics as degenerates.   
I recall it very well. They had a much more humane death than that of the soldiers in Ramallah.
Maybe we aren't all classed as degenerates because our children were never taught to rejoice in, and celebrate the barbaric murder of a human being, any human being. At least, not in our house.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 22, 2012, 03:30:14 PM
Quote
I seem to recall 2 British soldiers being killed after an incident at Milltown Cemetery in the 1980s but not even the BNP would class all Northern Irish catholics as degenerates.   
I recall it very well. They had a much more humane death than that of the soldiers in Ramallah.
Maybe we aren't all classed as degenerates because our children were never taught to rejoice in, and celebrate the barbaric murder of a human being, any human being. At least, not in our house.

What a stupid argument.

Reminds me of this


http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/aug/16/cauldron/?page=2

As desperate Viennese Jews increasingly failed to report to collection points, the Germans ordered the IKG “marshals”—the Viennese equivalent of ghetto police—to assist them in rounding up recalcitrant Jews, bringing them to the collection points, and guarding against any escape. Initially, Josef Löwenherz, the head of the IKG, refused to submit to this Nazi demand in November 1941, but the Nazis then recruited their own thugs to conduct the roundups in the most brutal manner, and Löwenherz relented so that “decent” people could be assigned to the task. As the continued exemption of the so-called “lifters” (Ausheber) depended upon total compliance and fulfillment of their assigned quotas, not surprisingly those being deported did not think their actions “decent.”

Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 22, 2012, 03:48:50 PM
Quote
I seem to recall 2 British soldiers being killed after an incident at Milltown Cemetery in the 1980s but not even the BNP would class all Northern Irish catholics as degenerates.   
I recall it very well. They had a much more humane death than that of the soldiers in Ramallah.
Maybe we aren't all classed as degenerates because our children were never taught to rejoice in, and celebrate the barbaric murder of a human being, any human being. At least, not in our house.

What a stupid argument.

Reminds me of this


http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/aug/16/cauldron/?page=2

As desperate Viennese Jews increasingly failed to report to collection points, the Germans ordered the IKG “marshals”—the Viennese equivalent of ghetto police—to assist them in rounding up recalcitrant Jews, bringing them to the collection points, and guarding against any escape. Initially, Josef Löwenherz, the head of the IKG, refused to submit to this Nazi demand in November 1941, but the Nazis then recruited their own thugs to conduct the roundups in the most brutal manner, and Löwenherz relented so that “decent” people could be assigned to the task. As the continued exemption of the so-called “lifters” (Ausheber) depended upon total compliance and fulfillment of their assigned quotas, not surprisingly those being deported did not think their actions “decent.”
How the hell do you equate what I posted to that garbage you just spewed out. You have some seriously fu**ed up thinking there fella.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 22, 2012, 03:59:41 PM
Quote
I seem to recall 2 British soldiers being killed after an incident at Milltown Cemetery in the 1980s but not even the BNP would class all Northern Irish catholics as degenerates.   
I recall it very well. They had a much more humane death than that of the soldiers in Ramallah.
Maybe we aren't all classed as degenerates because our children were never taught to rejoice in, and celebrate the barbaric murder of a human being, any human being. At least, not in our house.

What a stupid argument.

Reminds me of this


http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/aug/16/cauldron/?page=2

As desperate Viennese Jews increasingly failed to report to collection points, the Germans ordered the IKG “marshals”—the Viennese equivalent of ghetto police—to assist them in rounding up recalcitrant Jews, bringing them to the collection points, and guarding against any escape. Initially, Josef Löwenherz, the head of the IKG, refused to submit to this Nazi demand in November 1941, but the Nazis then recruited their own thugs to conduct the roundups in the most brutal manner, and Löwenherz relented so that “decent” people could be assigned to the task. As the continued exemption of the so-called “lifters” (Ausheber) depended upon total compliance and fulfillment of their assigned quotas, not surprisingly those being deported did not think their actions “decent.”
How the hell do you equate what I posted to that garbage you just spewed out. You have some seriously f***ed up thinking there fella.

I do apologise if it went above your head.

 
Was it really humane to murder 2 British soldiers who were cornered by a mob? Were they put to sleep by injection after a cup of tea ?   Did they really have to die? Was this explained to them? Did they give their consent?

And barbarism is about what Israel is doing to Gaza. As Gideon Levy said about the calories document

The reason the Israel Defense Forces was reluctant to publicize this document was because it would make Israel look even worse in world opinion than it already does. It's a matter of image, you know; the goyim shouldn't find out. It's not nice for the goyim to know how low Israeli racism could sink.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 22, 2012, 04:06:24 PM
Sorry, did I miss the bit in the papers about Derek Wood and David Howes having their intestines ripped from their bodies? No. They were beaten and shot. I don't want to lessen the horror of their murder, but you just can't compare the two in their brutality.

Oh, and Gideon Levy. That well know apologist for Hamas.  ::)
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 22, 2012, 04:15:21 PM


Oh, and Gideon Levy. That well know apologist for Hamas.  ::)

Seafoid, we have a troll on patrol. Ignore his hasbara.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 22, 2012, 05:44:36 PM
Quote
Gideon Levy is a fastidious journalist, one, I do believe, who would never knowingly publish an untruth. And yet, again, I have to quote the old “People in glass houses ….” cliché. For while Levy scrupulously seeks the truth, it is almost never the whole truth. In his inexplicable and anguished race to write and print anything that will show Israel in a bad light, Levy usually manages to leave out of his stories the redeeming features that might throw a different light on Israel. We want the truth, the WHOLE truth … . And there Levy has failed us, time and time again.

http://www.propagandistmag.com/2012/10/16/revolting-lies-and-truth-about-gideon-levy (http://www.propagandistmag.com/2012/10/16/revolting-lies-and-truth-about-gideon-levy)
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 22, 2012, 08:14:26 PM
Russia to the rescue?

Thursday, October 18, 2012 | Ryan Jones


Israel was spared yet more condemnation by the United Nations on Wednesday not by its usual benefactor, the United States, but rather by Russia, which traditionally sides with the Jewish state's Arab antagonists.

At the current gathering of the United Nations Education, Scientific, and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) in Paris, the world body was to vote on three Arab resolutions proposed by Jordan, the Palestinian Authority and Syria. All three resolutions charged Israel with abuse of local Arab populations and Muslim-claimed territories.

Most prominent was the resolution submitted by Jordan accusing Israel of trying to "change the character of Jerusalem" and blasting the prospect of allowing Jews to pray atop the Temple Mount.

Islamic authorities like to claim that the Jews have no historical or religious ties to Jerusalem's Temple Mount, and therefore reject the idea that Jews should have any reason to pray there.

All three Arab entities were surprised when Russia insisted that a vote on the resolutions be postponed for at least six months, and that instead a fact-finding mission be sent to Jerusalem to determine if the Jordanian accusations are accurate. The Russians said Israel is under no obligation to agree to host such a mission.

Last November, UNESCO became the first major world body to officially recognize "Palestine" as an independent state. It is little wonder that it has now become a primary venue for de-legitimizing Israel.


http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/23437/Default.aspx (http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/23437/Default.aspx)
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 22, 2012, 08:18:43 PM
A brave Arab woman stands up for Israel


Friday, October 19, 2012 | Ryan Jones



The Times of Israel has published a fascinating interview with a brave young Arab woman from a small town in the Galilee region who has dedicated her life to defending Israel in the public arena.

Boshra Khalaila is hardly the only Israeli Arab to speak out on behalf of her country, and her own story is very representative of the hurdles many Israeli Arabs must overcome if they wish to freely speak their mind regarding the Jewish state.

But some simply cannot remain silent any longer.

"I am a liberal, free woman, with all the rights that I could enjoy," stated Khalaila. "I compare myself to other women my age in Jordan, the [Palestinian ruled] territories, Egypt, any Arab country. They don’t have the rights that I have: freedom of expression, the right to vote. They are forced into marriage at a young age, and religious head covering, despite their own convictions. With me it’s the opposite; I have everything."


http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/23440/Default.aspx (http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/23440/Default.aspx)
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 22, 2012, 08:24:31 PM

IDF Escorts Medical Equipment to Gaza

The IDF escorts safe passage for foreign aid to Hamas-controlled Gaza, days after it stopped a ship trying to break the maritime blockade.
 


 By Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu
First Publish: 10/22/2012, 9:24 AM
 



New ambulances donated by the German Red Cross on their way to Gaza

Israel news photo: IDF
 

The IDF continues to escort and provide safe passage for foreign aid to Hamas-controlled Gaza, days after stopping a ship trying to break the maritime blockade. After the boat named "Estelle" was guided to the port of Ashdod, military inspectors discovered that all that was on board the ship were activists, but no aid.
 
Israel has blocked contributions to Gaza via the Mediterranean Sea to prevent smuggling for terrorists and weapons. The IDF supervises and escorts donations through Gaza land crossings, as it did this week when Germany delivered three new ambulances and medical equipment.
 
COGAT representatives and officers from the Gaza Coordination and Liaison Administration worked with Red Cross officials to coordinate the donation from the German branch of the Red Cross. 
 
The donated medical equipment included long and short spinal boards, foldable stretchers, stair compatible wheel chairs, stethoscopes, finger pulse oxymeters, electrical thermometers and CPR manikins.
 
COGAT is a unit within the IDF responsible for the transport of aid into both the Judea and Samaria region and Gaza.
 
It works with the Coordination and Liaison Administration of Gaza and the Civil Administration in Judea and Samaria to facilitate the transfer of supplies including gas, building materials, electrical appliances, ceramic parts, hygienic products, wheat and other foods.
 
The alleged land blockade does not exist except for materials that can be directly used for terrorist activities, such as assembling rockets.
 
After years of claims from Hamas that Gaza is facing an “imminent” humanitarian disaster, the United Nations declared two years ago that no such situation exists.
 
Under the Hamas regime, the gap between rich and poor has grown. Hamas controls commerce and heavily taxes operators of smuggling tunnels, whose profits have enabled them to become multi-millionaires.
 
Last week, there was a rush in Gaza for new iPhones, and previous Arutz Sheva reports have documented opulent restaurants and malls throughout the Gaza region


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161181 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161181)
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 22, 2012, 08:34:33 PM
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161102 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161102)




Qatari Fuel to Enter Gaza Through Israel

Israel allow will fuel donated by Qatar to be pumped into Gaza via the Kerem Shalom crossing, says PA official.
 

AAFont Size
 By Elad Benari
First Publish: 10/19/2012, 6:41 AM
 



Kerem Shalom crossing

Flash 90
 

Despite ongoing rocket attacks by Gaza-based terrorists at southern Israel, Israel will allow fuel donated by Qatar to be pumped into Gaza via an Israeli crossing starting on Sunday.
 
The information was disclosed by a Palestinian Authority official who spoke to the Bethlehem-based Ma’an news agency on Thursday.
 
Delivery of Qatari fuel began in July, Ma’an reported, but was cut off after a border attack on Egyptian officers on August 5.
 
The official, Nazmi Muhanna, told the news agency that fuel supplies will resume Sunday after delivery from Egypt and through the Israeli Kerem Shalom crossing into Gaza.
 
Gaza still faces up to eight hours without electricity per day, the report said. The power crisis began in mid-February, when Egypt cut off supplies via a tunnel network running under its border with Gaza.
 
After the August killing of 16 Egyptian border guards, Egypt moved to close more of the tunnels which are sometimes used to smuggle terrorists and weapons between Gaza and the Sinai Peninsula.
 
Israel has continued to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza despite the fact that it is being ruled by Hamas terrorists and despite the never ending rocket attacks being launched from the region.
 
On Wednesday, Israel’s Foreign Ministry publicized a series of Israeli measures to improve the Palestinian Authority economy, currently facing the worst crisis since its 1994 establishment.
 
These measures help both the PA-assigned areas of Judea and Samaria as well as Gaza. Israel has approved internationally funded and monitored projects in Gaza. Since 2011, 235 projects have been approved. In September 2012 alone, 16 new projects were approved.
 
Trade has expanded between Gaza and Judea and Samaria, noted the Foreign Ministry. Before the new school year began, three truckloads of furniture for schools in Judea and Samaria were transferred from Gaza.
 
Israel has also supported the private sector in Gaza, and has approved the transfer of raw materials for private sector construction, including roof tiles, building stones, dry wall, mosaics, adhesives, plaster, etc.
 
In addition to all of the above, the communication channels between Israel and the PA’s Ministry of Health have been maintained in recent years, despite Hamas’ violent takeover of Gaza in 2007. As part of this communication Israeli doctors have more than once helped save the lives of PA Arabs from Gaza who came to receive treatment in Israeli hospitals.
 
Angry at the PA-Israel cooperation, Hamas has prevented the transfer of Gaza patients to hospitals in Israel.
 
Despite all the assistance Israel provides to PA Arabs, both Hamas as well rival Fatah leaders constantly blame Israel for their economic woes.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 23, 2012, 10:45:46 AM

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/survey-most-israeli-jews-would-support-apartheid-regime-in-israel.premium-1.471644#

Most of the Jewish public in Israel supports the establishment of an apartheid regime in Israel if it formally annexes the West Bank.


Spin that
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 23, 2012, 02:22:35 PM
Legendary US linguistics professor and political critic Noam Chomsky called on the Palestinians to uphold their rights and never give up hope to restore them despite all odds and colonial plots being hatched against them.

Chomsky made his remarks on Sunday in a lecture he delivered on the second day of the international conference on languages and literature at the Islamic university in Gaza.

The American professor also stated that the western powers see the Palestinians as people with no rights because the Palestinians do not have resources or influence to give to them, so relying on such powers to get their rights and liberate their land is useless.

He also hailed the Arab nations for revolting against their tyrants and said their uprisings reflected their desire for freedom and liberation from repressive regimes serving the interests of western colonial powers at their expense.

Chomsky was awarded an honorary doctorate degree by the Islamic university in Gaza in appreciation of his positions in support of the Palestinian cause.

In a related context, Palestinian premier Ismail Haneyya met with US professor Noam Chomsky in his cabinet office and talked with him about a number of issues in the Palestinian arena.

Haneyya hailed Chomsky for his courageous positions in support of the Palestinian people and their rights and honored him for his great efforts.

http://www.alresalah.ps/en/index.php?act=post&id=1276
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 23, 2012, 02:46:00 PM
http://www.e-flux.com/journal/the-least-of-all-possible-evils/

Israel’s bombing and invasion of Gaza in the winter of 2008–9 marked the culmination of its violence against the Palestinians since the Nakba of 1948, and resulted in widespread international allegations that Israel had committed war crimes. It was also the assault in which Israeli experts in international humanitarian law—the area of the law that regulates the conduct of war—were more involved than ever before. Since the 2006 Lebanon War, the Israeli military has become increasingly mindful of its exposure to international legal action. Preparations for the next conflict included those in the domain of law, and new “legal technologies” were introduced into military matters.
 
This development gives rise to a series of related questions. Might it be that these legal technologies contributed not to the containment of violence but to its proliferation? That the involvement of military lawyers did not in fact restrain the attack—but rather, that certain interpretations of international humanitarian law have enabled the inflicting of unprecedented levels of destruction? In other words, has the making of this chaos, death, and destruction been facilitated by the terrible force of the law?
 
In more domains than one, the elastic and porous border has become the contemporary pathology of Israel’s regime of control. It manifests itself in a variety of ways—one such being the elasticity that military lawyers identify and mobilize in interpreting the laws of war.
 
The laws of war pose a paradox to those protesting in their name: while they prohibit some things, they authorize others. And thus a line is drawn between the “allowed” and the “forbidden.” This line is not stable and static; rather, it is dynamic and elastic and its path is ever changing. An intense battle is conducted over its route. Much like the route of the separation wall, the thresholds of the law will be pulled and pushed in different directions by those with different objectives. The question hinges on which side of the legal/illegal divide a certain form of military practice falls. International organizations such as the UN and the ICRC (International Committee of the Red Cross), large NGOs and human rights groups, and also some highly regarded academic authorities on international humanitarian law have the means to push the line in one direction—to place controversial military practices on the prohibited side—while state militaries and their apologists seek to push it in the opposite direction. International law can thus not be thought of as a static body of rules but rather an arena in which the law is shaped by an endless series of diffused border conflicts.
 
According to Eitan Diamond, the legal scholar and adviser for the ICRC in Israel, “the architecture of international humanitarian law is typified by ‘rigid lines of absolute prohibition’ and ‘elastic zones of discretion.’” The rigid prohibitions are derived, he states, from the law’s origins in the nineteenth century, “a time when legal thought was dominated by a positivist-formalist approach that conceived of law as a closed system distinguished from politics and ethics.” Today, he fears, “states and their advocates are using arguments based on the logic of the ‘lesser evil’ to subvert the law’s absolute provisions and to subject them to malleable cost-benefit calculations.”20 Diamond and the ICRC—allergic to the “creativity” of state lawyers—would prefer to see a more rigid legal structure and absolute prohibitions. A deontological legal system demanding the strict application of the law is useful in the kind of backroom discussions the ICRC is involved in with the military.
 
New frontiers of military practice are being explored via a combination of legal technologies and complex institutional practices that are now often referred to as “lawfare”—the use of law as a weapon of war. Lawfare is a compounded practice: with the introduction and popularization of international law in contemporary battlefields, all parties to a conflict might seek to use it for their tactical and strategic advantage. The former American colonel and military judge Charles Dunlap, who was credited with the introduction of this term in 2001, suggested that “lawfare” can be defined as “the strategy of using—or misusing—law as a substitute for traditional military means to achieve an operational objective.”21 In the hands of non-state actors, Dunlap says, the “lawfare effect” is created by an interaction between guerrilla groups that “lure militaries to conduct atrocities” and human rights groups that engage in advocacy to expose these atrocities, and who use whatever available means for litigation they have. In a similar vein, Israel now often claims that it faces an unprecedented campaign of lawfare, which threatens to undermine the very legitimacy of the state. Lawfare is used tactically by state militaries themselves. In this context, it refers to the multiple ways by which contemporary warfare is conditioned, rather than simply justified, by international law.22 In both cases, international law and the systems of courts and tribunals that exercise and enact it are not conceived as spaces outside the conflict, but rather as battlegrounds internal to it.
 
It is within the “elastic zones of discretion” that Israeli military lawyers find enormous potential for the expansion of military action. Daniel Reisner, a former chief international lawyer for the Israeli military, argued that because international humanitarian law is not so much a code-based legal system but a precedent-based legal corpus, state practice can continuously shift it.
 
International law is a customary law that develops through an historic process. If states are involved in a certain type of military activity against other states, militias, and the like, and if all of them act quite similarly to each other, then there is a chance that this behavior will become customary international law.23
 
It is in this sense that international law develops through its violation. In modern war, violence legislates: “If the same process occurred in criminal law, the legal speed limit would be 115 kilometres an hour and income tax would be 4 per cent.”24
 
Reisner is proud to have been the first international lawyer to have defended, at the request of then-Prime Minister Ehud Barak, the policy of “targeted assassinations” towards the end of 2000, when most governments and international bodies considered the practice illegal. “We invented the targeted assassination thesis and we had to push it. At first there were protrusions that made it hard to insert easily into the legal molds. Eight years [and, as he subsequently said in this interview—by way of reference to 9/11—‘four planes’] later it is in the center of the bounds of legitimacy.”25
 
Asa Kasher, a professor of ethics at Tel Aviv University, has worked with Reisner to provide an ethical and legal defense for targeted assassination. He talks in similar terms about the nature of law and the ways in which it might be transformed:
 

We in Israel have a crucial part to play in the developing of this area of the law [international humanitarian law] because we are at the forefront of the war against terror, and [the tactics we use] are gradually becoming acceptable in Israeli and in international courts of law … The more often Western states apply principles that originated in Israel to their own non-traditional conflicts in places like Afghanistan and Iraq, then the greater the chance these principles have of becoming a valuable part of international law. What we do becomes the law.26
 
After the Goldstone fact-finding mission on Gaza, Israel’s prime minister emphatically called for a radical rewriting of international humanitarian law. “Paradoxically,” Netanyahu said, “it is possible that the firm response of important international leaders and jurists to [the Goldstone report] will accelerate the re-examination of the laws of war in an age of terror.” His minister of defense, Ehud Barak, added: “We cannot change the law but we can help develop it.”
 
The actions of the Israeli state against Gaza may become acceptable in law. The siege— ongoing since 2007—the 2008–9 invasion, and the 2009 attack on an international flotilla carrying supplies into the enclave have all been carried out with relative impunity, and do not appear to have significantly affected Israel’s international standing. Each of these forms of aggression contains within it a multiplicity of small-scale practices and incidents: restricting the supply of food to the point of starvation; targeted assassinations; sending advance warnings that then allow the military to kill those civilians who choose not to evacuate;27 attacks on activists in international waters; the use of white phosphorus in inhabited areas—the list goes on. In these acts—if Israeli lawyers have their way—lie the seeds of new legislation.
 
Working at the margins of the law is one way to expand them. For violence to have the power to legislate, it needs to be applied in the grey, indeterminate zone between obvious violation and possible legality, and then to be defended diplomatically and by legal opinion. Indeed, the legal tactics sanctioned by military lawyers in Israel’s invasion of Gaza in 2008–9 were framed in precisely this way. “When something’s in the white zone, I’ll let it be done, if it’s in the black I’ll forbid it, but if it’s in the grey zone then I’ll take part in the dilemma, I don’t stop at grey,” said Reisner. Proportionality might indeed be thought of as one of the mechanisms for reshaping juridical space in a way that increases and makes use of the grey zone.
 
The invasion therefore did two simultaneous and seemingly paradoxical things: it both violated the law and shifted its thresholds. This kind of violence not only transgresses but also attacks the very idea of rigid limits. In this circular logic, the illegal turns legal through continuous violation. There is indeed a “law-making character” inherent in military violence. This is law in action, legislative violence as seen from the perspective of those who write it in practice.
 
This use of the law has much in common with that of the George W. Bush Administration’s misappropriation of the Office of Special Counsel in the Justice Department, in order to figure out a way to legalize the use of torture. Inherent in this was the clear intention to stretch the law as far as possible without actually breaking it.28 In this example, US Department of Justice attorney John Yoo used the balancing of interests to authorize certain forms of torture. His famous torture memos were grounded in an Israeli precedent: relying on what is essentially a proportionality analysis, the 1987 Israeli commission of inquiry into the methods of investigation in the General Security Service (the Landau Commission) arrived at the conclusion that the prohibition on torture is not absolute, but is rather based “upon the logic of the lesser evil.”
 
Thus, “the harm done by violating a provision of the law during an interrogation must be weighed against the harm to the life or person of others which could occur sooner or later.”29 Some legal scholars have suggested that Yoo’s legal advice in itself might be considered a crime.
 
Similar lines of legal argument are inspired by a strand of legal scholarship known as “critical legal studies,” an approach that emerged together with other post-structuralist discourses at the end of the 1980s. Critical legal studies scholars aimed to expose the way the law is made—the workings of power in the making and enactment of law—to challenge law’s normative account and to offer an insight into its internal contradictions and indeterminacies. It was, broadly speaking, a critical, left-leaning practice, which attempted to deploy law at the service of a socially transformative agenda. But when international law stands as an obstacle in the way of state militaries, it is easy to see why military lawyers would adopt the attitude of those scholars seeking to challenge rigid definitions and expose the law as an object of critique and contestation. Today, when the creative interpretation of the law is exercised by state and military lawyers, it is primarily human rights and antiwar activists who insist on the dry letter of the law.
 
The appeal, by military lawyers, to international humanitarian law to justify wars could easily be dismissed as cynical propaganda. Most human rights groups have correctly pointed out that international humanitarian law was not properly observed in Gaza, in the sense that it was used too permissively. Evidence and testimonies, including those of soldiers, collected by the Goldstone investigation and human rights groups reveal in baroquely nightmarish details some of the most gruesome and egregious violations. There were about twenty reported instances of Israeli soldiers firing at women and children carrying white flags; reports of the denial of medical aid and ambulances for wounded Palestinians, who bled to death; the wanton destruction of homes and neighborhoods; the use of white phosphorus—and more besides.30 But in the age of lawfare, the elastic nature of the law, and the power of military action to stretch it, those appealing for justice in the name of the law need to be aware of its double edge.
 
Gaza, in this sense, is a laboratory in more than one sense. It is a hermetically sealed zone, with all access controlled by Israel (except the border with Egypt). Within this enclosed space, all sorts of new control technologies, munitions, legal and humanitarian tools, and warfare techniques are tried out on its million-and-a-half inhabitants. The ability to remotely control large populations is also tested, before these technologies are marketed internationally. Most significantly of all, it is the thresholds that are tested and pushed: the limits of the law, and the limits of violence that can be inflicted by a state and be internationally tolerated. This limit, newly defined with every attack, will become the new threshold of what can be done to people in the name of the War on Terror. When the legislative violence directed at Gaza unlocks the chaotic powers of destruction that lie dormant within the law, the consequence will be felt by oppressed people everywhere.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 23, 2012, 10:02:29 PM
Another 2 Palestinian men have just been murdered by Israel in Gaza, making it 5 in the past 24 hours.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 24, 2012, 07:07:39 AM
Another 2 Palestinian men have just been murdered by Israel in Gaza, making it 5 in the past 24 hours.
Were these 2 murdered men in the middle of firing rockets into Israel by any chance?

Quote
IAF Strikes in Gaza Three Times in One Night

IAF aircraft hit Gaza-based terror squads three times in one night, following continuous rocket fire.
 

AAFont Size
 By Elad Benari
First Publish: 10/24/2012, 1:02 AM / Last Update: 10/24/2012, 6:15 AM
 



IAF Counterstrike (Gaza)

Flash 90
 

IAF aircraft struck a terror squad in southern Gaza early Wednesday morning, as it was preparing to fire a rocket at southern Israel, the IDF announced in a statement.
 
The statement said that a direct hit at the terrorists was identified. It was the third time in one night that the IDF retaliated against the ongoing rocket attacks by Gaza terrorists at southern Israel.
 
Shortly after midnight, on Tuesday night, IAF aircraft targeted a terror squad in northern Gaza, as it was making final preparations to launch a rocket at southern Israel.
 
According to a statement by the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit, a direct hit was identified at the terrorists and the rocket attack was thwarted.
 
“The IDF will not tolerate any attempt to harm Israeli citizens and IDF soldiers and will continue to operate against anyone who operates terror against Israel,” said the statement.
 
This air strike took place about an hour and a half after another terror squad was hit as it was preparing to launch rockets at Israel. In this attack, as well, direct hits were identified.
 
The air strikes came after terrorists from Gaza fired seven rockets at Israel earlier in the evening. The rockets came in three rounds – with one round landing in one town in the Eshkol Regional Council, a second round landing in another town, and the third round landing in an open area.
 
No one was injured and no damaged was reported in any of the attacks.
 
Tuesday night's attacks were a continuation of what appeared to be an escalating deterioration of the security situation in southern Israel.
 
An IDF officer was wounded Tuesday morning when an explosive device blew up during an IDF exercise in the Gaza border area. The officer was flown by helicopter to Soroka Hospital in Be'er Sheva, where he was declared by doctors to be in serious condition, with his life in danger. The officer's condition was little-changed Tuesday night.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161272 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161272)

Quote
Three Wounded in Massive Rocket Barrage on South

Hamas and allied terrorists pummeled southern Israel with more than 30 rocket attacks Wednesday morning. Three wounded.
 

AAFont Size
 By Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu
First Publish: 10/24/2012, 7:27 AM
 



Kassam  rockets

Israel news photo: Flash 90
 


Hamas and allied terrorist groups take to heart the Qatari emir’s call for “resistance” and pummeled southern Israel with more than 30 rockets, wounding three people and scoring direct hits on three homes.
 
The Iron Dome system operated shortly after 7 a.m. to down rockets headed towards the port city of Ashkelon.
 
Hamas appears to be trying to prove that its rocket launching capability is stronger than IDF counterterrorist operations that are able to target terrorists when caught in the act of preparing to launch Kassam missiles.
 
The latest attacks came less than a day after the visiting emir of oil-rich Qatar incited Gaza residents by saying during his visit, “There is no clear strategy of resistance and liberation” in the absence of peace talks, which both Hamas and its rival faction Fatah have boycotted.
 
The Air Force struck Gaza three times overnight Tuesday and early Wednesday after terrorists from Gaza fired seven rockets at Israel earlier in the evening. The rockets came in three rounds – with one round landing in one town in the Eshkol Regional Council, a second round landing in another town, and the third round landing in an open area.
 
Tuesday night's attacks were a continuation of what appeared to be an escalating deterioration of the security situation in southern Israel.
 
An IDF officer was wounded Tuesday morning when an explosive device blew up during an IDF exercise in the Gaza border area. The officer was flown by helicopter to Soroka Hospital in Be'er Sheva, where he was declared by doctors to be in serious condition, with his life in danger. The officer's condition was little-changed Tuesday night.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161277 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161277)

Maybe they were just celebrating Halloween a bit early, with some extra special fireworks. I think I'll save my sympathy for those who deserve it, the innocent.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 24, 2012, 07:37:31 AM
Harriet Sherwood cherry picks results of poll to smear Israel with 'apartheid' label

Harriet Sherwood’s latest report, Oct. 23, contains a dramatic headline, ’Israeli poll finds majority in favor of ‘apartheid’ policies.
 
The highlights of the poll reported by Sherwood, and based on a Ha’aretz article by Gideon Levy which cited the results of polling conducted by a group called Dialog, are as follows: (Graph from Ha’aretz)
 


Critical omission by Sherwood on the findings:
 
Here’s the opening passage of Sherwood’s story:
 

“More than two-thirds of Israeli Jews say that 2.5 million Palestinians living in the West Bank should be denied the right to vote if the area was annexed by Israel, in effect endorsing an apartheid state…” [emphasis added]
 
However, Sherwood failed to acknowledge that only 38 percent of the Jewish public wants Israel to annex the territories with settlements on them in the first place, which is arguably the most important stat, as many of the subsequent questions, such as the one highlighted by Sherwood, pertain to a scenario where such annexation occurs. The fact that a majority of Israelis do not express support for annexation renders the subsequent questions extremely less meaningful, and her conclusion about Israeli support for ‘apartheid’ dishonest.
 
A few additional observations.
 •The sample size of the Dialog poll is 503 (out of a Jewish population of over 6 million), which is problematic. Further, since there is no link to the full poll it’s not possible to judge the methodology.
 •Levy admits that “the survey conductors said that the term ‘apartheid’ “was not clear enough to some interviewees”, which may explain the following additional quote by Levy about the results: “39 percent believe apartheid is practiced “in a few fields”; 19 percent believe “there’s apartheid in many fields” and 11 percent do not know.”  Further, it’s unclear how ‘apartheid’ – widely understood as a systemic policy of separation based on race – could be characterized as a dynamic localized in certain fields. It seems possible that Israelis were expressing their belief that “discrimination” occurs in certain fields, which is a far different phenomenon than ‘apartheid’.
 •Sherwood writes that “58% believe Israel already practices apartheid against Palestinians”, a number, it seems, based on Levy’s report, cited above.  As I noted in the previous bullet, this is extremely problematic conclusion, based on what may be an unclear understanding of what the word ‘apartheid’ meant in the context it was being used.
 
Palestinian Context
 
The most glaring omission by Sherwood is her broader failure, in this or other reports alleging Israeli racism, to provide similar data indicating the political views of Palestinians.  This is part of a larger problem within the Guardian’s coverage of the region, which consistently fails to rigorously examine Palestinian society and mores.
 
As such, the following Palestinian poll results should at least serve to provide a bit of context to contrast the recent polling on Israelis.
 •51% support the August 2010 Hamas attack on settlers near Hebron that resulted in the death of four settlers? (PCPSR, October 2010)

 •54% support armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside Israel? (Harry Truman Research Institute/PCPSR, March 1-7, 2009

 • 64% support launching rockets from the Gaza Strip against Israeli towns and cities such as Sderot and Ashkelon? (Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, March 13-15, 2008)

 •84% support the bombing attack that took place in a religious school in West Jerusalem in 2008. (Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, March 13-15, 2008)

 •60% of Palestinians eventually hope that one state − Palestine − will replace the Jewish state. Only 23 percent of Palestinians said they believed in Israel’s right to exist as the national homeland of the Jews.  (Based on a poll in 2010)

 •Only 4% of Palestinians have a favorable view of Jews. (Pew Global, 2011)

 •47.5% of Palestinians still support terrorist attacks inside pre-1967 Israel. (2012 PSR Survey)

 •73% of Palestinians “believe” the Islamic Hadith that preaches it is Islamic destiny to kill Jews. (2011 poll)

 
Of course, there is as good of a chance Sherwood would report these disturbing findings about Palestinian racism, support for violence, and intransigence as the chance she would avoid skewing the results of an Israeli poll in a misleading manner which shows Israelis in the worst possible light.


http://cifwatch.com/ (http://cifwatch.com/)
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 08:42:35 AM
Harriet Sherwood cherry picks results of poll to smear Israel with 'apartheid' label
in thread
Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve

I believe the correct term is  "chutzpah"

Nobody asked Israel to occupy the West Bank and Gaza.  Israel is a sovereign state that decides for itself and it a real tragedy that the people of Israel would choose  apartheid. They won't pull out of the West Bank and they won't give palestinians the vote.

Israel is in a real hole. Hopefully they can pull out of it before it is too late and they try to expel the Palestinians.     
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 24, 2012, 10:09:28 AM
The death toll in the past 24 hours has now increased to 7 as 2 more Palestinians have been murdered by Israel. The skies are filled with Drones and F 16's, and there is a real fear in Gaza right now.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 10:55:02 AM
The death toll in the past 24 hours has now increased to 7 as 2 more Palestinians have been murdered by Israel. The skies are filled with Drones and F 16's, and there is a real fear in Gaza right now.
and they say Gaza is not occupied
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 11:14:39 AM

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/strenger-than-fiction/the-psychology-of-israel-s-declining-democracy.premium-1.472013#

But I think there is an additional reason for the rise in racism. Israel has been occupying the West Bank for more than two thirds of its history now, and has discriminated against Israeli Arabs all along. All Israelis understand that the country cannot be both Jewish and democratic if Israel continues to hold on to the West Bank. But Israel’s political right, which has largely ruled the country for more than half of its existence, claims that Israel cannot or must not withdraw from the West Bank either on theological grounds or because this would endanger Israel’s security.

Psychological research has shown for many decades that human beings are incapable of seeing themselves as bad in the long run. If a group does something that is immoral under a given value system, it cannot in the long run bear the cognitive dissonance. As a result it will tend to change its value system in order to avoid feeling bad, guilty or ashamed.
The implications for Israel are clear: The longer Israel holds on to the territories, and discriminates against Israeli Arabs the stronger the psychological need to adjust core values, to avoid feeling bad. If Israel has ruled over Palestinians for so long without giving them political rights, the consequence will be to simply say that it is justifiable to discriminate against Arabs
.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 24, 2012, 02:49:24 PM
The death toll in the past 24 hours has now increased to 7 as 2 more Palestinians have been murdered by Israel. The skies are filled with Drones and F 16's, and there is a real fear in Gaza right now.

The number of rockets fired from Gaza into Israel TODAY stands at 72. I see not even Haaretz has the gall to say any of those killed were innocent civilians.

Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on October 24, 2012, 03:03:32 PM
The death toll in the past 24 hours has now increased to 7 as 2 more Palestinians have been murdered by Israel. The skies are filled with Drones and F 16's, and there is a real fear in Gaza right now.

The number of rockets fired from Gaza into Israel TODAY stands at 72. I see not even Haaretz has the gall to say any of those killed were innocent civilians.

You are a fraud Ball DeBeaver and a disgusting excuse for a human being. Shame on you.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 24, 2012, 03:29:01 PM
No harm to the MOD's on here, but why is it that people are allowed to mock the deaths of Palestinians as if they are not humans? How long would any of us last if we were to poke fun at the deaths of others on another thread? The attitudes of some on this board is a reflection of why the world is so fcuked up.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 24, 2012, 03:42:13 PM
I'm a fraud? How so? Have I come here and pretend to be something I'm not? I think you'll find that  it is others on here who are the blatant liars.
I have, and will continue, to show that no matter what you read from certain members of this board, that not everyone is taken in by their propoganda. What has been posted by me shows that the situation in the middle east is a hell of a lot different from that portrayed. It is a lot more complex than Israeli = bad, Palestinian = good. I will never accept that firing rockets into civilian areas indiscriminately is justifiable. Neither will I accept the indiscriminate shelling of civilians by Israel, both are just as abhorrent. Those who do these things deserve all the pain they receive.


There are two sides to the story. If anyone can show me where these latest 7 dead have been claimed to be civilian, I will gladly condemn their deaths. For too long this board has been fed half truths and blatant manipulation of the facts.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 24, 2012, 03:47:38 PM
No harm to the MOD's on here, but why is it that people are allowed to mock the deaths of Palestinians as if they are not humans? How long would any of us last if we were to poke fun at the deaths of others on another thread? The attitudes of some on this board is a reflection of why the world is so fcuked up.
Dry yer eyes.

I will mock and rejoice in the deaths of anyone directly involved in the murder of innocent civilians. On either side. They ARE subhuman.

By you trying to have me censored just goes to show how frail your argument is.

If you dont like what I'm saying, or if you think I have broken any rules of the board, then use the report feature at the bottom of the post.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 24, 2012, 03:53:26 PM


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/24/gaza-israel-shelling-resumes (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/24/gaza-israel-shelling-resumes)


Gaza-Israel shelling resumes after departure of Qatari emir
Israel carries out targeted air strikes in response to sustained rocket fire following brief lull during visit of Sheikh Hamad
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Harriet Sherwood in Jerusalem

guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 24 October 2012 14.29 BST



An Israeli man inspects damage to his house following a rocket attack on the the Israeli kibbutz of Beeri from neighbouring Gaza. Photograph: Jack Guez/AFP/Getty Images


More than 70 rockets have been fired into southern Israel from Gaza since the departure on Tuesday of the emir of Qatar, whose visit to the Gaza Strip was seen as a boost for its ruling faction, Hamas. Three foreign agricultural workers were injured and several buildings were hit.

Four militants were killed in resurgent Israeli air strikes overnight as a short period of calm ended. Three were members of Hamas's military wing, the Ezzedin al-Qassam brigades, according to reports on its website.

Hamas, which normally distances itself from rocket fire from Gaza, has claimed responsibility for some operations in recent days. "These holy missions come in response to the repeated, continuous crimes of the enemy against our people, which killed four and injured 10 in the past 48 hours," it said in a statement.

Israel's defence minister, Ehud Barak, said he would order whatever action was necessary to stop rocket fire from Gaza. "If a ground operation will be necessary, there will be a ground operation. Nobody is eager for this but we will act as we are required to stop this wave and to increase the effectiveness of the operation."

Israeli tanks have fired into Gaza in addition to air strikes, according to reports. Schools in both southern Israel and central Gaza were closed on Wednesday, and the Israeli authorities shut crossing points to the enclave.

Both Israel and Hamas are thought to want to avoid an escalation into full-scale conflict. But if Israeli casualties resulted from rocket fire, Israel would be expected to engage in a more sustained assault than targeted assassinations.

Hamas is also under pressure from more radical organisations within Gaza, which may explain its unusual open participation in this latest round of violence. "Hamas feels a tension between the need to be a government [in Gaza] and the need to be part of the resistance [to Israel]. It has in its ranks quite a few people who co-operate with the more radical groups," Yossi Kuperwasser, the director general of Israel's ministry of strategic affairs, told reporters in a briefing last week.

Weapons were "pouring in" to Gaza, he added. "Everyone is extremely busy building a terror infrastructure. Libya is a new and very important source of weapons. The arming process is very intensive and with it comes a growing tendency to use such arms."

Earlier this month, an anti-aircraft missile was fired from Gaza for the first time at an Israeli military helicopter, according to Israeli defence officials. The shoulder-fired Strela missile missed its target.

The visit by the Qatari emir‚ the first head of state to visit Gaza under Hamas rule, was seen as conferring legitimacy on the Islamist organisation. Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani also announced a $400m investment and construction programme for Gaza
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 04:02:31 PM
No harm to the MOD's on here, but why is it that people are allowed to mock the deaths of Palestinians as if they are not humans? How long would any of us last if we were to poke fun at the deaths of others on another thread? The attitudes of some on this board is a reflection of why the world is so fcuked up.
Dry yer eyes.

I will mock and rejoice in the deaths of anyone directly involved in the murder of innocent civilians. On either side. They ARE subhuman.

By you trying to have me censored just goes to show how frail your argument is.

If you dont like what I'm saying, or if you think I have broken any rules of the board, then use the report feature at the bottom of the post.
Go on then. Take the piss out of the Golani brigade of the IDF.


"How frail your argument is.".

Thanks for the laugh habibi

Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Gaaboardmod3 on October 24, 2012, 04:10:50 PM
No harm to the MOD's on here, but why is it that people are allowed to mock the deaths of Palestinians as if they are not humans? How long would any of us last if we were to poke fun at the deaths of others on another thread? The attitudes of some on this board is a reflection of why the world is so fcuked up.

GHD, I'm monitoring this thread as it is an emotive topic, and I'm trying to allow people to debate and argue as long as it is someway civil, albeit heated at times. I don't see any mocking of death, or calling them subhuman, except in the case of people involved in attacks from either side. That might be contentious, but I do not think it is deliberately mocking the death of innocent civilians either.

There are quite a few anti-Israel posters on this, and other threads, and if we allow them to post their opinions and articles, it is only fair to allow pro-Israeli posters the same courtesy. I am not adjudicating on who is 'in the right' here, I'm just trying to make sure that debate is kept as civil as possible.

I think yourself, Seafoid and BalldeBeaver are well able to argue without personalising the issue, so I'm happy for that to continue. However, if I feel someone is crossing the line, then we will act, as we have done before.

Cheers.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 04:23:48 PM
I'm a fraud? How so? Have I come here and pretend to be something I'm not? I think you'll find that  it is others on here who are the blatant liars.
I have, and will continue, to show that no matter what you read from certain members of this board, that not everyone is taken in by their propoganda. What has been posted by me shows that the situation in the middle east is a hell of a lot different from that portrayed. It is a lot more complex than Israeli = bad, Palestinian = good. I will never accept that firing rockets into civilian areas indiscriminately is justifiable. Neither will I accept the indiscriminate shelling of civilians by Israel, both are just as abhorrent. Those who do these things deserve all the pain they receive.


There are two sides to the story. If anyone can show me where these latest 7 dead have been claimed to be civilian, I will gladly condemn their deaths. For too long this board has been fed half truths and blatant manipulation of the facts.

Firing homemade rockets at Israel is pointless. It isn't justified but Israel loves it and does its best to provoke it.
 Zionism is an oppressive ideology that runs an apartheid system for Palestinians.
There is simply no justification for this.

Anyone who denies that the Dahiya doctine imposed on Gaza since 2008 is not a deliberate attempt to force the people of Gaza to accept Israel's terms of engagement is a fraud.

The 2279 calories policy is a stain on the face of Israel which is why it was kept hidden for so long.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 24, 2012, 04:31:14 PM
No harm to the MOD's on here, but why is it that people are allowed to mock the deaths of Palestinians as if they are not humans? How long would any of us last if we were to poke fun at the deaths of others on another thread? The attitudes of some on this board is a reflection of why the world is so fcuked up.

GHD, I'm monitoring this thread as it is an emotive topic, and I'm trying to allow people to debate and argue as long as it is someway civil, albeit heated at times. I don't see any mocking of death, or calling them subhuman, except in the case of people involved in attacks from either side. That might be contentious, but I do not think it is deliberately mocking the death of innocent civilians either.

There are quite a few anti-Israel posters on this, and other threads, and if we allow them to post their opinions and articles, it is only fair to allow pro-Israeli posters the same courtesy. I am not adjudicating on who is 'in the right' here, I'm just trying to make sure that debate is kept as civil as possible.

I think yourself, Seafoid and BalldeBeaver are well able to argue without personalising the issue, so I'm happy for that to continue. However, if I feel someone is crossing the line, then we will act, as we have done before.

Cheers.

Thanks for clearing that up.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 24, 2012, 04:45:26 PM
I'm a fraud? How so? Have I come here and pretend to be something I'm not? I think you'll find that  it is others on here who are the blatant liars.
I have, and will continue, to show that no matter what you read from certain members of this board, that not everyone is taken in by their propoganda. What has been posted by me shows that the situation in the middle east is a hell of a lot different from that portrayed. It is a lot more complex than Israeli = bad, Palestinian = good. I will never accept that firing rockets into civilian areas indiscriminately is justifiable. Neither will I accept the indiscriminate shelling of civilians by Israel, both are just as abhorrent. Those who do these things deserve all the pain they receive.


There are two sides to the story. If anyone can show me where these latest 7 dead have been claimed to be civilian, I will gladly condemn their deaths. For too long this board has been fed half truths and blatant manipulation of the facts.

Firing homemade rockets at Israel is pointless. It isn't justified but Israel loves it and does its best to provoke it.
 Zionism is an oppressive ideology that runs an apartheid system for Palestinians.
There is simply no justification for this.

Anyone who denies that the Dahiya doctine imposed on Gaza since 2008 is not a deliberate attempt to force the people of Gaza to accept Israel's terms of engagement is a fraud.

The 2279 calories policy is a stain on the face of Israel which is why it was kept hidden for so long.

So you think Israel WANTS these rockets fired at their population? I don't agree with you but I can see where you're coming from, but that would be one hell of a risky/dangerous strategy on behalf of the Israeli gov. All it would take is for even one of these things to get a direct hit and you could have dozens of innocent Israeli kids blow to pieces. That would surely result in the IDF going buck mad in Gaza. Do you not think that Hamas are the ones with the death wish? After all, They would be responsible for the ensuing Israeli onslaught that would surely happen.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 04:49:48 PM
I'm a fraud? How so? Have I come here and pretend to be something I'm not? I think you'll find that  it is others on here who are the blatant liars.
I have, and will continue, to show that no matter what you read from certain members of this board, that not everyone is taken in by their propoganda. What has been posted by me shows that the situation in the middle east is a hell of a lot different from that portrayed. It is a lot more complex than Israeli = bad, Palestinian = good. I will never accept that firing rockets into civilian areas indiscriminately is justifiable. Neither will I accept the indiscriminate shelling of civilians by Israel, both are just as abhorrent. Those who do these things deserve all the pain they receive.


There are two sides to the story. If anyone can show me where these latest 7 dead have been claimed to be civilian, I will gladly condemn their deaths. For too long this board has been fed half truths and blatant manipulation of the facts.

Firing homemade rockets at Israel is pointless. It isn't justified but Israel loves it and does its best to provoke it.
 Zionism is an oppressive ideology that runs an apartheid system for Palestinians.
There is simply no justification for this.

Anyone who denies that the Dahiya doctine imposed on Gaza since 2008 is not a deliberate attempt to force the people of Gaza to accept Israel's terms of engagement is a fraud.

The 2279 calories policy is a stain on the face of Israel which is why it was kept hidden for so long.

So you think Israel WANTS these rockets fired at their population? I don't agree with you but I can see where you're coming from, but that would be one hell of a risky/dangerous strategy on behalf of the Israeli gov. All it would take is for even one of these things to get a direct hit and you could have dozens of innocent Israeli kids blow to pieces. That would surely result in the IDF going buck mad in Gaza. Do you not think that Hamas are the ones with the death wish? After all, They would be responsible for the ensuing Israeli onslaught that would surely happen.
I have been watching it for over a decade. Without the occupation there would be no need for half of the IDF. It's like the RUC was. Jobs.
The IDF trashes Gaza every so often to test its new materiel, to stretch international law and to give a run out to products which Israeli companies then sell abroad. 

The rockets give it the excuse to start bombing. It's not complicated.

Hamas and the IDF need each other. The losers are the civilians of Gaza and the people of Israel.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 24, 2012, 05:01:03 PM
I'm a fraud? How so? Have I come here and pretend to be something I'm not? I think you'll find that  it is others on here who are the blatant liars.
I have, and will continue, to show that no matter what you read from certain members of this board, that not everyone is taken in by their propoganda. What has been posted by me shows that the situation in the middle east is a hell of a lot different from that portrayed. It is a lot more complex than Israeli = bad, Palestinian = good. I will never accept that firing rockets into civilian areas indiscriminately is justifiable. Neither will I accept the indiscriminate shelling of civilians by Israel, both are just as abhorrent. Those who do these things deserve all the pain they receive.


There are two sides to the story. If anyone can show me where these latest 7 dead have been claimed to be civilian, I will gladly condemn their deaths. For too long this board has been fed half truths and blatant manipulation of the facts.

Firing homemade rockets at Israel is pointless. It isn't justified but Israel loves it and does its best to provoke it.
 Zionism is an oppressive ideology that runs an apartheid system for Palestinians.
There is simply no justification for this.

Anyone who denies that the Dahiya doctine imposed on Gaza since 2008 is not a deliberate attempt to force the people of Gaza to accept Israel's terms of engagement is a fraud.

The 2279 calories policy is a stain on the face of Israel which is why it was kept hidden for so long.

So you think Israel WANTS these rockets fired at their population? I don't agree with you but I can see where you're coming from, but that would be one hell of a risky/dangerous strategy on behalf of the Israeli gov. All it would take is for even one of these things to get a direct hit and you could have dozens of innocent Israeli kids blow to pieces. That would surely result in the IDF going buck mad in Gaza. Do you not think that Hamas are the ones with the death wish? After all, They would be responsible for the ensuing Israeli onslaught that would surely happen.
I have been watching it for over a decade. Without the occupation there would be no need for half of the IDF. It's like the RUC was. Jobs.
The IDF trashes Gaza every so often to test its new materiel, to stretch international law and to give a run out to products which Israeli companies then sell abroad. 

The rockets give it the excuse to start bombing. It's not complicated.

Hamas and the IDF need each other. The losers are the civilians of Gaza and the people of Israel
.
Amen brother. THAT we can agree on.
As I see it, Hamas is doing the Palestinian cause no good by firing these rockets in Israel. They would give their cause more kudos if they were to take the moral high ground and fought Israel on humanitarian issues alone. Maybe then people like myself might have a bit more sympathy for their cause, as Israel would have no moral right to impose any restrictions on them.
As it stands, they just look like bloodthirsty savages, who use their own people as cannon fodder. Any resulting peace would (hopefully) be reflected in future elections in Israel, with the hard liners being pushed out. Both sets of civilians deserve peace.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 05:09:05 PM
I don't think it would make a difference TBH.  Gaza is unsustainable. All the Palestinians of southern Palestine herded into a concentration camp.

Pauperised since 1967. Bombed numerous time. No industry, very little agricultural capacity.
No political rights. No economic rights. Israel wants the people to leave but no country will take them and most wouldn't leave anyway.

It is a total mess.    That was the price of the Jewish state.
The whole story is desperate. Israelis are not in a great place either if they are honest with themselves. Militarism has cost their society so much in lost potential. 
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 24, 2012, 05:18:50 PM
Apart from the concentration camp part, I would agree with most of that.

Israel doesnt want the people to leave, it wants the headers who attack Israel to leave. But their military is a two edged sword. Without such a strong military, Israel would have been wiped out years ago. With it, they are overly militarised. As long as they feel threatened by their arab neighbours, they will maintain their military might. Catch 22.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 06:03:06 PM
Apart from the concentration camp part, I would agree with most of that.

Israel doesnt want the people to leave, it wants the headers who attack Israel to leave. But their military is a two edged sword. Without such a strong military, Israel would have been wiped out years ago. With it, they are overly militarised. As long as they feel threatened by their arab neighbours, they will maintain their military might. Catch 22.

Militarism is a dead end. Either they are there on their own merit as a people and they integrate into the region or are they are not and they conscript everyone. 
The Arabs offered them 2 states and full recognition but they want all of the land.
they went badly wrong in 1967 and they didn't ever have the balls to stand up to the settlers. 

It didn't have to turn out like this.
And none of their Arab neighbours threaten them either.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 24, 2012, 06:31:49 PM
Truths and lies behind Israel’s attacks on Gaza and its whining about rockets
Submitted by Ali Abunimah on Wed, 10/24/2012 - 16:03

Israel’s hasbara – propaganda – organs are cranked up to the maximum right now complaining that Israel is once again the innocent victim of barrages of rockets from Gaza, and justifiying Israel’s latest killings of Palestinians in Gaza as a necessary and legitimate response.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu claimed today, “We neither chose nor initiated this escalation but if it continues we are prepared for much more extensive and deeper action” in Gaza.

Don’t believe the lies. Israel has been conducting a systematic campaign of “preemptive” extrajudicial executions in Gaza, knowing full well that this would bring on rocket fire. But Israel thinks the price is worth it.

On 14 October, Ynet published an interview with a senior military officer, under the headline, “Surgical strikes are worth risk of rocket fire”:

Israel’s southern communities are bracing for what may prove further escalation in rocket fire, following Saturday and Sunday’s surgical IAF strikes, which left three terrorists dead; but Colonel Tal Hermoni, the IDF’s outgoing Gaza Division commander, is convinced that the benefits of the IDF’s operations outweigh the danger.

“If we wouldn’t be taking them out, the same terrorists would have infiltrated the border and killed 20 kids at a holiday party,” he said Sunday.

Isn’t this is the sort of “preemptive” logic that led so many to accept the US invasion of Iraq?

Israel’s version of “calm,” it would seem, is that it should be allowed to kill whoever it pleases, but Palestinians can never respond.

During the week of 11-17 October, Israeli occupation forces killed five Palestinians in Gaza, two of them extrajudicial executions, according to the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights. Five others, including two children were wounded. PCHR described the extrajudicial killings that Hermoni had overseen:

In the Gaza Strip, IOF extra-judicially executed 2 Palestinians in the northern Gaza Strip. On 13 October 2012, Israeli warplanes launched a missile on a motorcycle ridden by 2 Palestinians on Mas’oud Street in Jabalia refugee camp, in the northern Gaza Strip. As a result, one of them was killed immediately, while the other died 3 hours later. A child who was in the vicinity of the attack was wounded and the windows of 2 houses in the area were broken. The glass door of a nearby pharmacy was also smashed.

Praising Hamas

In the same Ynet interview, Hermoni praised Hamas, which rules the interior of Israeli-occupied Gaza, for doing its best to keep things calm despite the execution campaign he was promoting:

“Hamas is taking action to prevent an escalation and is turning from a terror group to a sovereign movement that is assuming governmental responsibility. They have to worry about feeding and educating people, and every act of terror costs them dearly.

“But they day the decision is made, we’ll know how to bring it to its knees. There will be a (ground) operation in Gaza. The only question is when,” he said.

Israel, it seems, cannot be satisfied unless there is war and violence along its frontiers.

Half the story

Israel’s full-volume hasbara about how it is the passive victim of rocket attacks is, as Yousef Munayyer pointed out in February, only half (in fact much less than half) the story:

If a rocket from Gaza falls in the middle of the desert, does it make a sound?

It does if you are on Twitter. Regular updates on just about every projectile fired from Gaza is reported by the Israeli military’s official twitter account @IDFSpokesperson as well as from the accounts of other Israeli military figures like that of spokesperson @AvitalLeibovich.

But what about projectiles fired by Israel into Gaza? You’d think that since this is actual Israeli military activity the spokespeople from the Israeli military would provide this information.

Munayyer provided the answer, based on UN data:

In 2011, the projectiles fired by the Israeli military into Gaza have been responsible for the death of 108 Palestinians, of which 15 where women or children and the injury of 468 Palestinians of which 143 where women or children. The methods by which these causalities were inflicted by Israeli projectiles breaks down as follows: 57% or 310, were caused by Israeli Aircraft Missile fire, 28% or 150 where from Israeli live ammunition, 11% or 59 were from Israeli tank shells while another 3% or 18 were from Israeli mortar fire.

In 2012, the story is no different. Beware of Israel manufacturing a “rocket crisis” as it did in the weeks before its 2008-2009 “Operation Cast Lead” massacre in Gaza.

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/truths-and-lies-behind-israels-attacks-gaza-and-its-whining-about-rockets
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 24, 2012, 06:57:23 PM
I'm a fraud? How so? Have I come here and pretend to be something I'm not? I think you'll find that  it is others on here who are the blatant liars.
I have, and will continue, to show that no matter what you read from certain members of this board, that not everyone is taken in by their propoganda. What has been posted by me shows that the situation in the middle east is a hell of a lot different from that portrayed. It is a lot more complex than Israeli = bad, Palestinian = good. I will never accept that firing rockets into civilian areas indiscriminately is justifiable. Neither will I accept the indiscriminate shelling of civilians by Israel, both are just as abhorrent. Those who do these things deserve all the pain they receive.


There are two sides to the story. If anyone can show me where these latest 7 dead have been claimed to be civilian, I will gladly condemn their deaths. For too long this board has been fed half truths and blatant manipulation of the facts.

Firing homemade rockets at Israel is pointless. It isn't justified but Israel loves it and does its best to provoke it.
 Zionism is an oppressive ideology that runs an apartheid system for Palestinians.
There is simply no justification for this.

Anyone who denies that the Dahiya doctine imposed on Gaza since 2008 is not a deliberate attempt to force the people of Gaza to accept Israel's terms of engagement is a fraud.

The 2279 calories policy is a stain on the face of Israel which is why it was kept hidden for so long.

So you think Israel WANTS these rockets fired at their population? I don't agree with you but I can see where you're coming from, but that would be one hell of a risky/dangerous strategy on behalf of the Israeli gov. All it would take is for even one of these things to get a direct hit and you could have dozens of innocent Israeli kids blow to pieces. That would surely result in the IDF going buck mad in Gaza. Do you not think that Hamas are the ones with the death wish? After all, They would be responsible for the ensuing Israeli onslaught that would surely happen.
I have been watching it for over a decade. Without the occupation there would be no need for half of the IDF. It's like the RUC was. Jobs.
The IDF trashes Gaza every so often to test its new materiel, to stretch international law and to give a run out to products which Israeli companies then sell abroad. 

The rockets give it the excuse to start bombing. It's not complicated.

Hamas and the IDF need each other. The losers are the civilians of Gaza and the people of Israel.

In the past 2 years, the US tax payers have given Israel over $900 million towards the Iron Dome project. The Iron Dome is a mobile all-weather air defense system in development by Rafael Advanced Defense System, designed to intercept and destroy short-range rockets and artillery shells fired from distances of 4 to 70 kilometers away whose trajectory would take them to a populated area.

The $900 million is in addition to the $3 billion they also receive annually from the US tax payers.

So, with such capabilities to intercept any rockets fired from Gaza, why is it that they don't? Will it harm their victim mentality?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 24, 2012, 07:00:39 PM
Can you honestly not see the difference between firing rockets indiscriminately into civilian areas and laser guided, targetted rocket attacks? The vast majority of which have caused very few civilian casualties.

Israel are targetting the militants, not civilians. Whereas Hamas and it's allies are just firing at will, no matter who gets it. The world would have a lot more sympathy if Hamas were to target just military installations instead of civilians.


...

As for Iron Dome, it is ineffective against the smaller rockets with a short range. Try again.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 24, 2012, 07:09:02 PM
A brief history of the ancient city of Majdal, which was ethnically cleansed by Israel and is now known as Ashkelon. As bad it is for the illegal occupying residents living there now having to deal with a few rockets, it is nothing compared to what the 11,000 or so Palestinians had to deal with in 1948.

During the 1948 war, the Egyptian army occupied a large part of Gaza including Majdal. Over the next few months, the town was subjected to Israeli air-raids and shelling. All but about 1,000 of the town's residents were forced to leave by the time it was captured by Israeli forces as a sequel to Operation Yoav on 4 November 1948.

General Yigal Allon ordered the expulsion of the remaining Arabs but the local commanders did not do so and the Arab population soon recovered to more than 2,500 due mostly to refugees slipping back and also due to the transfer of Arabs from nearby villages. Most of them were elderly, women, or children. During the next year or so, the Arabs were held in a confined area surrounded by barbed wire, which became commonly known as the "ghetto".

Moshe Dayan and Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion were in favor of expulsion, while Mapam and the Israeli labor union Histadrut objected. The government offered the Arabs positive inducements to leave, including a favorable currency exchange, but also caused panic through night-time raids. The first group was deported to the Gaza Strip by truck on 17 August 1950 after an expulsion order had been served. The deportation was approved by Ben-Gurion and Dayan over the objections of Pinhas Lavon, secretary-general of the Histadrut, who envisioned the town as a productive example of equal opportunity.

By October 1950, 20 Arab families remained, most of whom later moved to Lydda or Gaza. According to Israeli records, in total 2,333 Arabs were transferred to the Gaza Strip, 60 to Jordan, 302 to other towns in Israel, and a small number remained in Ashkelon. Lavon argued that this operation dissipated "the last shred of trust the Arabs had in Israel, the sincerity of the State's declarations on democracy and civil equality, and the last remnant of confidence the Arab workers had in the Histadrut." Acting on an Egyptian complaint, the Egyptian-Israel Mixed Armistice Commission ruled that the Arabs transferred from Majdal should be returned to Israel, but this was not done.

Re-population of abandoned Arab dwellings by Jews became official policy by December 1948 but the process began slowly. The Israeli national plan of June 1949 designated Majdal as the site for a regional urban center of 20,000 people. From July 1949, new immigrants and demobilized soldiers moved to the new town, increasing the Jewish population to 2,500 within six months. The town was initially called Migdal Gaza, Migdal Gad and Migdal Ashkelon. In 1953, the nearby neighborhood of Afridar was incorporated and the name "Ashkelon" was adopted. By 1961, Ashkelon ranked 18th among Israeli urban centers with a population of 24,000
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 24, 2012, 07:15:37 PM
It's easy to see there is an election coming up in the US as Obama bends over backwards to provide a show of strength with Israel. Of course the US tax payers stump up $30 million to cover the costs....

US, Israel begin largest-ever joint military exercise


Israeli and US troops launched an expansive missile defence exercise known as Austere Challenge 12 on Sunday, in what is the largest-ever military operation between the two countries. The exercise is expected to last three weeks.
 
Israeli and US troops were on Sunday beginning a vast missile defence exercise called Austere Challenge 12, in what was hailed as their largest-ever joint military operation, officials said.

The exercise, which involves 3,500 personnel from the US European Command (US EUCOM) and 1,000 Israeli troops and is expected to last three weeks, is likely to send a clear signal to Tehran over its disputed nuclear drive, which must of the West believes is a weapons drive.

"Austere Challenge 12 is the largest aerial defence exercise to take place between the two militaries," an Israeli military statement said.

The long-planned operation comes as the world grapples with the standoff over Iran's nuclear programme, and as a bloody civil war in Syria threatens to set the region alight, although Israel and US officials have said there is no connection.

"These exercises are part of a planned training schedule that seeks to increase cooperation interoperability between the militaries. Planning for the exercise began over two years ago and is not a response to specific events in the region," the statement said.

Of the 3,500 US personnel involved, around a thousand will be stationed in Israel, while the rest will operate in Europe and the Mediterranean, senior US air force officer Lieutenant General Craig Franklin told reporters last week.

Troops will train together on Israel's Iron Dome missile defence system, the latest version of the US Patriot and the Arrow anti-ballistic missile system, jointly developed by the two allies.

Command and control functions will be provided by US Navy Aegis cruiser.

Franklin said the operation, which would last "about three weeks," was a defensive exercise unrelated to Iran, or any other developments in the Middle East.

"While the scenario is driven by the overall situation in the Middle East, AC12 is not related to any specific current event... nor to any perceived tensions in the Middle East," he said.

The cost of the exercise is around $38 million, with Washington covering around $30 million of the total.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2012, 08:23:16 PM
A brief history of the ancient city of Majdal, which was ethnically cleansed by Israel and is now known as Ashkelon. As bad it is for the illegal occupying residents living there now having to deal with a few rockets, it is nothing compared to what the 11,000 or so Palestinians had to deal with in 1948.

During the 1948 war, the Egyptian army occupied a large part of Gaza including Majdal. Over the next few months, the town was subjected to Israeli air-raids and shelling. All but about 1,000 of the town's residents were forced to leave by the time it was captured by Israeli forces as a sequel to Operation Yoav on 4 November 1948.

General Yigal Allon ordered the expulsion of the remaining Arabs but the local commanders did not do so and the Arab population soon recovered to more than 2,500 due mostly to refugees slipping back and also due to the transfer of Arabs from nearby villages. Most of them were elderly, women, or children. During the next year or so, the Arabs were held in a confined area surrounded by barbed wire, which became commonly known as the "ghetto".

Moshe Dayan and Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion were in favor of expulsion, while Mapam and the Israeli labor union Histadrut objected. The government offered the Arabs positive inducements to leave, including a favorable currency exchange, but also caused panic through night-time raids. The first group was deported to the Gaza Strip by truck on 17 August 1950 after an expulsion order had been served. The deportation was approved by Ben-Gurion and Dayan over the objections of Pinhas Lavon, secretary-general of the Histadrut, who envisioned the town as a productive example of equal opportunity.

By October 1950, 20 Arab families remained, most of whom later moved to Lydda or Gaza. According to Israeli records, in total 2,333 Arabs were transferred to the Gaza Strip, 60 to Jordan, 302 to other towns in Israel, and a small number remained in Ashkelon. Lavon argued that this operation dissipated "the last shred of trust the Arabs had in Israel, the sincerity of the State's declarations on democracy and civil equality, and the last remnant of confidence the Arab workers had in the Histadrut." Acting on an Egyptian complaint, the Egyptian-Israel Mixed Armistice Commission ruled that the Arabs transferred from Majdal should be returned to Israel, but this was not done.

Re-population of abandoned Arab dwellings by Jews became official policy by December 1948 but the process began slowly. The Israeli national plan of June 1949 designated Majdal as the site for a regional urban center of 20,000 people. From July 1949, new immigrants and demobilized soldiers moved to the new town, increasing the Jewish population to 2,500 within six months. The town was initially called Migdal Gaza, Migdal Gad and Migdal Ashkelon. In 1953, the nearby neighborhood of Afridar was incorporated and the name "Ashkelon" was adopted. By 1961, Ashkelon ranked 18th among Israeli urban centers with a population of 24,000

Zochrot visisted Majdal a few years ago.

Check out the bot reaction after 2:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwD62j9YOOg
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 25, 2012, 02:25:38 PM
Not content with bombing Gaza, Israel decide to attack Sudan and bring their weeks killing to 10.

Sudan 'terrorist state', says Israel official after raid

(AFP) – 4 hours ago 

JERUSALEM — Sudan is a "dangerous terrorist state," a top Israeli defence official said on Thursday after the Sudanese government accused Israel of carrying out a deadly missile strike on a military factory in Khartoum.

Sudanese officials say the attack on the Yarmouk facility south of Khartoum, which took place at around midnight on Tuesday and killed two people, was carried out by four radar-evading aircraft.
Israel, which has long accused Khartoum of serving as a base of support for militants from the Islamist Hamas movement which rules Gaza, has refused all comment on the claim.

"Sudan is a dangerous terrorist state. To know exactly what happened (there), it will take some time to understand," Amos Gilad told Israel's army radio.

Asked directly whether Israel was involved in the attack, Gilad, who serves as director of policy and political-military affairs at the defence ministry, refused to reply directly.

The Israeli air force, he noted, was "one of the most prestigious in the world, a fact which had been proved many times in the past.

"Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir is regarded a war criminal. Sudan has also served as the operational base for (the late Al-Qaeda chief Osama) bin Laden," Gilad pointed out.

"The regime is supported by Iran and it serves as a route for the transfer, via Egyptian territory, of Iranian weapons to Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists," he told the radio.

Khartoum has said it found evidence of Israeli involvement among the remnants of the explosives at the blast site.

"We think Israel did the bombing," Culture and Information Minister Ahmed Bilal Osman said, adding: "We reserve the right to react at a place and time we choose."

It is not the first mystery blast which has prompted allegations of Israeli involvement.
In April 2011, Sudan said it had irrefutable evidence that Israeli attack helicopters carried out an air strike on a car driving along its Red Sea coast which killed two people.

Israel again refused to comment, but Israeli intelligence sources told AFP that a truck carrying weapons, which was being escorted by the car, had been hit in the strike.

In January 2009, foreign aircraft bombed a convoy of trucks in eastern Sudan, with US and Israeli press reports saying they were carrying weapons destined for Gaza during Israel's deadly 22-day assault on the territory.

Khartoum, which has close ties with Hamas, is seeking the removal of US sanctions imposed in 1997 over its alleged support for international terrorism, its human rights record and other concerns.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gSoTbAbd9z-REdfGHzbKpkV-HZtA?docId=CNG.e948f75582c629a7eb61956930e63223.191
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 25, 2012, 04:14:12 PM
Quote
"Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir is regarded a war criminal. Sudan has also served as the operational base for (the late Al-Qaeda chief Osama) bin Laden," Gilad pointed out.

"The regime is supported by Iran and it serves as a route for the transfer, via Egyptian territory, of Iranian weapons to Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists," he told the radio.



Khartoum, which has close ties with Hamas, is seeking the removal of US sanctions imposed in 1997 over its alleged support for international terrorism, its human rights record and other concerns.
I can't think why Israel would have done this.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 25, 2012, 05:44:05 PM

Arab/Leftist Olive Tree Vandals Busted by Jewish Film Crew

Volunteers caught a group of Arabs and anarchists uprooting olive trees near Ateret in Binyamin, apparently planning to blame Jews
 

AAFont Size
 By David Lev
First Publish: 10/25/2012, 6:00 PM
 



Arab/Leftist Olive Tree Vandals

Binyamin Regional Council
 

Volunteers from the grassroots Binyamin Residents' Council on Wednesday caught a group of Arabs and anarchists uprooting olive trees near the town of Ateret in Binyamin. Apparently, the group was planning to cause damage to an olive grove belonging to an Arab farmer, and blame it on Jews from the area.
 
The volunteers filmed footage of the group as it was destroying the trees, filming its members for several minutes, until one of the group noticed they were being recorded. At that point, the group began shouting and threatened to attack the volunteers. The group quickly loaded the trees onto a pickup truck and ran away.
 
Itzik Shadmi, chairman of the Council, called on the IDF and the government to put more effort into preventing these kinds of provocations, and to keep the anarchist and student groups who ostensibly come to “help” the Arabs in the olive harvest out of the area. “Thanks to these patrols, which are manned by volunteers from the Binyamin region, we have shown the true faces of these Arabs, who each year complain that Jewish residents of Judea and Samaria destroy their trees.”
 
Last week, volunteers also caught a group destroying trees, and filmed them as well (see video below). That incident occurred near Elon Moreh. That group apparently did not have a pickup truck to move the evidence when they were caught, and instead left the damaged trees in the field. Volunteers called police, but no arrests were made.


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161332 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161332)
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 25, 2012, 07:52:13 PM

Arab/Leftist Olive Tree Vandals Busted by Jewish Film Crew

Volunteers caught a group of Arabs and anarchists uprooting olive trees near Ateret in Binyamin, apparently planning to blame Jews
 

AAFont Size
 By David Lev
First Publish: 10/25/2012, 6:00 PM
 



Arab/Leftist Olive Tree Vandals

Binyamin Regional Council
 

Volunteers from the grassroots Binyamin Residents' Council on Wednesday caught a group of Arabs and anarchists uprooting olive trees near the town of Ateret in Binyamin. Apparently, the group was planning to cause damage to an olive grove belonging to an Arab farmer, and blame it on Jews from the area.
 
The volunteers filmed footage of the group as it was destroying the trees, filming its members for several minutes, until one of the group noticed they were being recorded. At that point, the group began shouting and threatened to attack the volunteers. The group quickly loaded the trees onto a pickup truck and ran away.
 
Itzik Shadmi, chairman of the Council, called on the IDF and the government to put more effort into preventing these kinds of provocations, and to keep the anarchist and student groups who ostensibly come to “help” the Arabs in the olive harvest out of the area. “Thanks to these patrols, which are manned by volunteers from the Binyamin region, we have shown the true faces of these Arabs, who each year complain that Jewish residents of Judea and Samaria destroy their trees.”
 
Last week, volunteers also caught a group destroying trees, and filmed them as well (see video below). That incident occurred near Elon Moreh. That group apparently did not have a pickup truck to move the evidence when they were caught, and instead left the damaged trees in the field. Volunteers called police, but no arrests were made.


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161332 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161332)
So Jewish settlers don't destroy Palestinian olive trees ?
 Is that what you are saying ?
Are we supposed to belive this hasbara?   
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 26, 2012, 03:22:42 AM
Maybe it was the big bad Jews that done this too.....

Quote
Theft and Destruction at Jewish-Owned Olive Grove

A Jewish farmer went to harvest olives Tuesday from his grove in the Shilo region, but discovered his trees sawn and stripped of fruit.
 

AAFont Size
 By Chana Ya'ar
First Publish: 10/25/2012, 11:00 AM
 



Jewish olive grove destroyed in Shomron

Israel news photo: Shomron Residents' Council
 


A Jewish farmer went to harvest olives Tuesday morning from his grove in the Shilo region in Samaria (Shomron), but discovered that his grove had been stripped of the fruit. Dozens of trees were destroyed as well, their branches chopped. Many were sawn down.
 
Farmer Erez Ben-Saadom was left with only broken branches, he said, and fabric olive sacks with Arabic writing. There were also some olives spilled on the ground.
 
“We don't know what to do now,” the farmer said. “We are talking about tens of thousands of shekels lost, and serious damage to the grove.”
 
Ben-Saadon said it's not the first time he has has fallen victim to theft and vandalism from his Arab neighbors. “Last Sabbath, Arabs harvested from my trees and stole olives from 40 other trees in the same area,” he told Arutz Sheva. “A few years ago, they planted three bombs in our vineyard in Har Bracha,” he added. “It was a miracle nobody was hurt.
 
“Uprooting trees, theft and throwing rocks at farmers is not rare, unfortunately,” he said. “Every year we suffer from assaults and thefts, both from the Arabs and from anarchists and leftist who come here from around the world.
 
“It's outrageous that next to my home in Rechelim, Arabs harvest olives without being disturbed, and yet they attack us in the media as if we're plotting against them – while Arab attacks and thefts targeting Jewish farmers in Samaria are met with silence,” he declared.
 
Samaria (Shomron) Residents' Committee head Benny Katzover confirmed that farmers in the region have faced frequent harassment, theft and vandalism during the olive harvest season, as well as attempted libel.
 
“Unfortunately, this serious issue is met with a lack of proper response,” Katzover said. “I call on the legal authorities to take Arab and far-left attacks as seriously as they take Jewish attacks on Arabs,” he added.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161327 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161327)
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 26, 2012, 03:28:29 AM
Pro-Israel Arab party to run in next Knesset election




Thursday, October 25, 2012 |  Ryan Jones   




Israel's upcoming early election just got a lot more interesting with the announced formation of a new Arab political party that intends to support the Jewish state.

Israel's Channel 2 News on Friday highlighted the new party, which will reportedly be made up of "well-known" Arab public figures.

One of the organizers for the new party told Channel 2, "We're tired of Arab MKs who are more concerned with foreign policy in the Arab world and the Palestinian people."

The source was referring to the fact that the three Arab parties currently in the Knesset are made up of lawmakers who spend the bulk of their time condemning and undermining Israel and collaborating with its enemies.

The new party's goal is to do its job of truly representing its constituents, and therefore will busy itself with bettering the lives of Israel's Arab population.

Earlier in the summer we reported on an Arab public figure from the Galilee who planned to form a pro-Israel Arab Knesset party. Sarhan Bader, a local Likud activist, told The Jerusalem Post at the time that he, too, was tired of Israel's current Arab lawmakers misrepresenting the community.

"Most Arab citizens are in favor of coexisting, cooperating and living in harmony with Jewish Israelis," he said. "The other Arab parties place too much emphasis on the Palestinians and external Arabs. But it’s more important to serve the Arabs inside Israel who want to live here in peace with our Jewish cousins."

It is not yet clear if Bader will be part of the new Arab party profiled by Channel 2, or if two pro-Israel Arab parties will seek seats in the next Knesset.


http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/23454/Default.aspx (http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/23454/Default.aspx)
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 26, 2012, 03:32:27 AM
Arabs urged to serve in Israeli army


Israel is currently engaging in vigorous review of its military draft laws, which currently permit Orthodox Jews and Arabs to avoid national service. Interestingly, there are a number of Arab voices insisting that their sector of society should serve the same as Israel's Jews.

Reforming Israel's draft laws was one of the conditions of former opposition party Kadima joining Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government. At the center of the negotiations was the Tal Law that enables Jews to bypass military service if they are attending yeshiva (Jewish seminary). Non-Orthodox Israelis are unhappy that so many of their religious brethren do not help carry the burden of national defense.

But the situation is not so simple. In a democratic society, it is not possible to only target Orthodox Jews for national service, and so the laws governing the drafting of Israeli Arabs are also being reviewed, much to the irritation of Arab Knesset members.

Arab members of Israel's Knesset like Ahmad Tibi and Talab el-Sana have long insisted that Israel is a racist state and therefore its Arab citizens should not do any kind of national service.

In an interview with Israel's Ynet news portal, Bedouin Arab activist Ibrahim al-Huzeil strongly disagreed.

"You want rights? Make your contribution. If not in the army, then help the community, your sector, your town," said Huzeil. "I see no problem with everyone enlisting, including Arabs and haredim."

As for Tibi and el-Sana, Huzeil said they do not represent most Israeli Arabs, but rather "they represent the Palestinian Authority and terror." Interestingly, Tibi was once an advisor to former Palestinian Authority leader Yasser Arafat, who at one time was the world's most visible terrorist.

Huzeil said that so far eight of his nine sons have served in the Israeli army, and he will continue to raise them to view national service to the Jewish state as a duty.

Protesters at the "Suckers' Tent" in Jerusalem where IDF reservists are challenging the exemption of Orthodox Jews from national service were surprised to hear a message similar to Huzeil's last week when an Arab mother visited.

Anet Haschaya insisted that, like the Orthodox, Israeli Arabs "must also carry their equal share of the burden, stop complaining and begin serving in the IDF – or at least join the national service program."

Haschaya, a Muslim, noted that all three of her sons had or currently were serving in the Israeli army.

A few years ago, the BBC profiled Maj Fehd Fallah, an Israeli Bedouin from the Golan Heights who explained that there are thousands of Arabs serving in the Israeli army, with pride.

"Israeli Muslims who don't serve in the IDF should be ashamed for not serving their country," said Fallah.

While enlistment among Bedouins and other Arab Muslims is relatively low, a comparatively large percentage of Israeli Druze do serve in the IDF, a decision their leaders made shortly after the rebirth of Israel.

It is also more common for Arab Christians to enlist than their Muslim brothers. Two years ago, the IDF celebrated the promotion of its first female Arab combat soldier, Cpl. Elinor Joseph, whose father before her had been an Israeli paratrooper.

"I know I am part of the Jewish state’s army and therefore when we speak about that I listen and learn," said Elinor at the time. "I believe in what I am doing. In my eyes, I am here for a mission."

Earlier this year, Ynet reported on a female Arab Christian soldier who encourages young Israeli Jews to take pride in their upcoming military service.

Shirin Shlian from Nazareth speaks at schools in the Jewish part of the town helping teenage Israelis make sense of the life changes they are about to face.

"I give the students a lesson about the first draft notice, IDF enlistment and the jobs the army has to offer. In addition, I hold personal conversations with each student with the aim of encouraging them to have a significant and contributing service," said Shlian, whose brothers are also soldiers.
"The students applaud me for my decision to volunteer, enlist – and make a contribution to the State."


http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/23279/Default.aspx (http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/23279/Default.aspx)
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 26, 2012, 09:18:02 AM
Remember when Israel destroyed the UN schools in Gaza during Cast Lead and then told the world that there were rockets fired from them? Well, they lied .......

http://www.unrwa.org/etemplate.php?id=1477

No rockets from UNRWA schools in Gaza during the Gaza war of 2008-2009
Israel’s Channel Two publishes correction


24 October 2012
East Jerusalem

Israel’s highest-rating news programme, Channel Two News, has published a statement correcting false claims that rockets were fired from schools operated by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) during the Gaza war in 2008-2009. The statement makes clear that Israeli officials themselves acknowledged that such claims were false and that there was no evidence to support them.

“We heard this misinformation during the war when there was shelling on and around the Agency’s schools and our main warehouse in Gaza”, said UNRWA Spokesperson Chris Gunness, “but Israeli officials made it clear to the UN during the war itself that they knew claims about militants in UNRWA installations were completely false. Constant, unchecked repetition of this misinformation has been very damaging to the Agency and has produced some very poor and biased journalism, which I will continue to confront. This is the third time in just a few months that a major news organisation has issued a public retraction because of false information about UNRWA.”

The shelling in and around UNRWA installations, such as schools and the Agency’s warehouse in Gaza, were condemned by UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon and other world leaders. In a statement issued on 15 January 2009, Mr. Ban expressed “outrage”, saying he had protested to Israel’s defence and foreign ministers. The defence minister had told Mr. Ban that the shelling of the UNRWA warehouse was a “grave mistake”.

After the warehouse was destroyed along with all material and equipment within it, the Israeli government paid over USD 10 million to the United Nations. “Would all this really have happened? Would all this really have been said by such senior officials if there were militants firing rockets from our installations?” asked Gunness.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 26, 2012, 09:21:22 AM
Good piece from professor Richard Falk on why we should boycott those companies who profit from the illegal occupation. One omission is Irish company, CRH, who supply the cement used in the Apartheid Wall and in the illegal settlements

http://www.un.org/ga/61/news/news.asp?NewsID=43376&Cr=palestin&Cr1

UN independent expert calls for boycott of businesses profiting from Israeli settlements

25 October 2012 - A United Nations independent expert today called on the world body’s General Assembly, as well as civil society, to take action against Israeli and international businesses that are profiting from Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territory.

“My main recommendation is that the businesses highlighted in the report – as well as the many other businesses that are profiting from the Israeli settlement enterprise – should be boycotted, until they bring their operations into line with international human rights and humanitarian law and standards,” the Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the occupied Palestinian territories, Richard Falk, said in a news release issued as he presented a report on his work to the Assembly.

Highlighting the activities of companies such as Caterpillar Incorporated of the United States, Veolia Environment of France, G4S of the United Kingdom, the Dexia Group of Belgium, Ahava of Israel, the Volvo Group of Sweden, the Riwal Holding Group of the Netherlands, Elbit Systems of Israel, Hewlett Packard of the USA, Mehadrin of Israel, Motorola of the USA, Assa Abloy of Sweden, and Cemex of Mexico, the Special Rapporteur noted that a wide range of Israeli and international businesses are involved in the establishment and maintenance of the Israeli settlements.

“All Israeli settlements in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, have been established in clear violation of international law,” said Mr. Falk.

“Yet today Israeli settlements control over 40 percent of the West Bank and between 500,000 and 600,000 Israeli citizens are living in Palestinian territory,” he added. “In the last 12 months alone, the settler population has increased by over 15,000 persons.”

He drew the Assembly’s attention to developing international law and standards concerning businesses and human rights, including the UN Global Compact and the UN Guiding Principles on Businesses and Human Rights.

“The principles outlined in the Global Compact are clear,” Mr. Falk said. “Businesses should support and respect the protection of internationally proclaimed human rights and ensure that they are not complicit in human rights abuses.”

The Global Compact is a strategic policy initiative for businesses that are committed to aligning their operations and strategies with ten universally accepted principles in the areas of human rights, labour, environment and anti-corruption. The Guiding Principles, endorsed by the Human Rights Council, provide a global standard for preventing and addressing the risk of adverse impacts on human rights linked to business activity.

Mr. Falk also noted guidance developed by the International Committee of the Red Cross that points to the prospect of corporate and individual criminal responsibility for violations committed during a situation of armed conflict.

“In short, businesses should not breach international humanitarian law provisions. Nor should they be complicit in any breaches. If they do, they may be subject to criminal or civil liability. And this liability can be extended to individual employees of such businesses,” the Special Rapporteur said in presenting his report.

Mr. Falk noted that he had written to all the businesses mentioned in his report, and that positive responses were received from some of them.

“It is encouraging to be informed that Assa Abloy has moved its Mul-T-Locks factory from the West Bank to Israel, and that the Dexia Group, G4S, and Cemex are looking for ways to bring their operations into line with their commitments under the UN Global Compact,” he added.

Independent experts, or special rapporteurs, are appointed by the Geneva-based Human Rights Council to examine and report back on a country situation or a specific human rights theme. The positions are honorary and the experts are not United Nations staff, nor are they paid for their work.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 26, 2012, 10:16:52 AM
Maybe it was the big bad Jews that done this too.....

Quote
Theft and Destruction at Jewish-Owned Olive Grove

A Jewish farmer went to harvest olives Tuesday from his grove in the Shilo region, but discovered his trees sawn and stripped of fruit.
 

AAFont Size
 By Chana Ya'ar
First Publish: 10/25/2012, 11:00 AM
 



Jewish olive grove destroyed in Shomron

Israel news photo: Shomron Residents' Council
 


A Jewish farmer went to harvest olives Tuesday morning from his grove in the Shilo region in Samaria (Shomron), but discovered that his grove had been stripped of the fruit. Dozens of trees were destroyed as well, their branches chopped. Many were sawn down.
 
Farmer Erez Ben-Saadom was left with only broken branches, he said, and fabric olive sacks with Arabic writing. There were also some olives spilled on the ground.
 
“We don't know what to do now,” the farmer said. “We are talking about tens of thousands of shekels lost, and serious damage to the grove.”
 
Ben-Saadon said it's not the first time he has has fallen victim to theft and vandalism from his Arab neighbors. “Last Sabbath, Arabs harvested from my trees and stole olives from 40 other trees in the same area,” he told Arutz Sheva. “A few years ago, they planted three bombs in our vineyard in Har Bracha,” he added. “It was a miracle nobody was hurt.
 
“Uprooting trees, theft and throwing rocks at farmers is not rare, unfortunately,” he said. “Every year we suffer from assaults and thefts, both from the Arabs and from anarchists and leftist who come here from around the world.
 
“It's outrageous that next to my home in Rechelim, Arabs harvest olives without being disturbed, and yet they attack us in the media as if we're plotting against them – while Arab attacks and thefts targeting Jewish farmers in Samaria are met with silence,” he declared.
 
Samaria (Shomron) Residents' Committee head Benny Katzover confirmed that farmers in the region have faced frequent harassment, theft and vandalism during the olive harvest season, as well as attempted libel.
 
“Unfortunately, this serious issue is met with a lack of proper response,” Katzover said. “I call on the legal authorities to take Arab and far-left attacks as seriously as they take Jewish attacks on Arabs,” he added.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161327 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161327)

BDB. What sort of Arabs are these people referred to in your posts ? Are they Algerians or Omanis or what? I would appreciate an explanation.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 26, 2012, 10:21:19 AM
Pro-Israel Arab party to run in next Knesset election




Thursday, October 25, 2012 |  Ryan Jones   




Israel's upcoming early election just got a lot more interesting with the announced formation of a new Arab political party that intends to support the Jewish state.

Israel's Channel 2 News on Friday highlighted the new party, which will reportedly be made up of "well-known" Arab public figures.

One of the organizers for the new party told Channel 2, "We're tired of Arab MKs who are more concerned with foreign policy in the Arab world and the Palestinian people."

The source was referring to the fact that the three Arab parties currently in the Knesset are made up of lawmakers who spend the bulk of their time condemning and undermining Israel and collaborating with its enemies.

The new party's goal is to do its job of truly representing its constituents, and therefore will busy itself with bettering the lives of Israel's Arab population.

Earlier in the summer we reported on an Arab public figure from the Galilee who planned to form a pro-Israel Arab Knesset party. Sarhan Bader, a local Likud activist, told The Jerusalem Post at the time that he, too, was tired of Israel's current Arab lawmakers misrepresenting the community.

"Most Arab citizens are in favor of coexisting, cooperating and living in harmony with Jewish Israelis," he said. "The other Arab parties place too much emphasis on the Palestinians and external Arabs. But it’s more important to serve the Arabs inside Israel who want to live here in peace with our Jewish cousins."

It is not yet clear if Bader will be part of the new Arab party profiled by Channel 2, or if two pro-Israel Arab parties will seek seats in the next Knesset.


http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/23454/Default.aspx (http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/23454/Default.aspx)
BDB - fascinating. It is very strange that the Arab parties would be so pro Palestinian. Do you have any ideas as to why this might happen ? it couldn't happen here.  Imagine Irish catholics in Westmeath taking an interest in British catholics living in Armagh. The mind boggles.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 26, 2012, 11:45:11 AM
If you refuse to serve in the IDF and have a conscience, you go to jail......

Israeli conscientious objector begins 10-day sentence for refusing to serve in IDF


Moriel Rothman, 23, a Jerusalem native who lived in the United States for two decades, says he is acting in 'solidarity with the Palestinians living under occupation.

A U.S.-Israeli citizen who is refusing to perform his compulsory IDF service as a "conscientious objector", has a  has been sentenced to ten days in a military jail, Haaretz has learned.

Moriel Rothman, 23, a Jerusalem native who lived in the United States for two decades before returning to Israel last year, reported Wednesday to IDF headquarters outside in Tel Aviv after receiving a draft notice last June. Rothman told Haaretz late Wednesday night that he had been sentenced.

The IDF Spokespersons’ Unit responded, "The soldier was arrested for avoiding the draft and for violating the Security Service Law and was sentenced to 10 days' incarceration," the IDF Spokesman's Unit said in a statement.

"The above-mentioned soldier submitted a request to appear before the Conscience Committee, and when he completes his sentence a decision will be made concerning the rest of his military service."

The statement did not mention where Rothman was being held.

In an interview with Haaretz, Rothman said he had planned to state his objections to IDF officials, knowing full well he faced incarceration. Rothman said he appealed the June letter, which was rejected ten days ago.

In a long letter posted to his blog, "The Leftern Wall," earlier this week, Rothman, a long-time resident of Yellow Springs, Ohio, laid out his manifesto, framing his refusal to serve in the Israel Defense Forces "on the basis of conscience, opposition to structural violence and the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories."

Clad in jeans, a plaid shirt and sandals, and an army-style jacket, Rothman appeared at an East Jerusalem transit point for soldiers at 8 A.M. Wednesday en route to Tel Aviv, accompanied by about ten friends and family members. He was holding a bag that he said bore a "toothbrush, some almonds, a notebook, a pen, and books by Hanoch Levin, Rebbe Nachman [of Bratslov], [Jorge Luis] Borges and the Dalai Lama."

"Occupation can only be theoretical if you are not occupied, and thus my refusal to support the occupation by serving in the IDF is also an act of solidarity with Palestinians living under occupation," blogged Rothman, a 2011 graduate of Middlebury College in Vermont, and former student president of the national board of "J Street U," the student organizing arm of J Street, a non-profit liberal advocacy group based in Washington, D.C.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/israeli-conscientious-objector-begins-10-day-sentence-for-refusing-to-serve-in-idf-1.472247
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: deiseach on October 26, 2012, 12:29:39 PM
BDB - fascinating. It is very strange that the Arab parties would be so pro Palestinian. Do you have any ideas as to why this might happen ? it couldn't happen here.  Imagine Irish catholics in Westmeath taking an interest in British catholics living in Armagh. The mind boggles.

I'm sure the Thatcherite press was stuffed to the gills during the apartheid era with tales of the good blacks who wanted to engage with the government of South Africa and condemned the terrorism of Mandela and the ANC. It would have been nauseating then too.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: LeoMc on October 26, 2012, 12:36:38 PM
BDB - fascinating. It is very strange that the Arab parties would be so pro Palestinian. Do you have any ideas as to why this might happen ? it couldn't happen here.  Imagine Irish catholics in Westmeath taking an interest in British catholics living in Armagh. The mind boggles.

I'm sure the Thatcherite press was stuffed to the gills during the apartheid era with tales of the good blacks who wanted to engage with the government of South Africa and condemned the terrorism of Mandela and the ANC. It would have been nauseating then too.

In the 1980's the SDLP wanted constitutional politics and were condemning the activities of the IRA.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: deiseach on October 26, 2012, 12:41:05 PM
BDB - fascinating. It is very strange that the Arab parties would be so pro Palestinian. Do you have any ideas as to why this might happen ? it couldn't happen here.  Imagine Irish catholics in Westmeath taking an interest in British catholics living in Armagh. The mind boggles.

I'm sure the Thatcherite press was stuffed to the gills during the apartheid era with tales of the good blacks who wanted to engage with the government of South Africa and condemned the terrorism of Mandela and the ANC. It would have been nauseating then too.

In the 1980's the SDLP wanted constitutional politics and were condemning the activities of the IRA.

I see. By that logic, I presume you think the UK and South Africa were comparable states during that period.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 26, 2012, 12:49:56 PM
If you refuse to serve in the IDF and have a conscience, you go to jail......

Israeli conscientious objector begins 10-day sentence for refusing to serve in IDF


Moriel Rothman, 23, a Jerusalem native who lived in the United States for two decades, says he is acting in 'solidarity with the Palestinians living under occupation.

A U.S.-Israeli citizen who is refusing to perform his compulsory IDF service as a "conscientious objector", has a  has been sentenced to ten days in a military jail, Haaretz has learned.

Moriel Rothman, 23, a Jerusalem native who lived in the United States for two decades before returning to Israel last year, reported Wednesday to IDF headquarters outside in Tel Aviv after receiving a draft notice last June. Rothman told Haaretz late Wednesday night that he had been sentenced.

The IDF Spokespersons’ Unit responded, "The soldier was arrested for avoiding the draft and for violating the Security Service Law and was sentenced to 10 days' incarceration," the IDF Spokesman's Unit said in a statement.

"The above-mentioned soldier submitted a request to appear before the Conscience Committee, and when he completes his sentence a decision will be made concerning the rest of his military service."

The statement did not mention where Rothman was being held.

In an interview with Haaretz, Rothman said he had planned to state his objections to IDF officials, knowing full well he faced incarceration. Rothman said he appealed the June letter, which was rejected ten days ago.

In a long letter posted to his blog, "The Leftern Wall," earlier this week, Rothman, a long-time resident of Yellow Springs, Ohio, laid out his manifesto, framing his refusal to serve in the Israel Defense Forces "on the basis of conscience, opposition to structural violence and the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories."

Clad in jeans, a plaid shirt and sandals, and an army-style jacket, Rothman appeared at an East Jerusalem transit point for soldiers at 8 A.M. Wednesday en route to Tel Aviv, accompanied by about ten friends and family members. He was holding a bag that he said bore a "toothbrush, some almonds, a notebook, a pen, and books by Hanoch Levin, Rebbe Nachman [of Bratslov], [Jorge Luis] Borges and the Dalai Lama."

"Occupation can only be theoretical if you are not occupied, and thus my refusal to support the occupation by serving in the IDF is also an act of solidarity with Palestinians living under occupation," blogged Rothman, a 2011 graduate of Middlebury College in Vermont, and former student president of the national board of "J Street U," the student organizing arm of J Street, a non-profit liberal advocacy group based in Washington, D.C.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/israeli-conscientious-objector-begins-10-day-sentence-for-refusing-to-serve-in-idf-1.472247
It's a cult. You can't opt out.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 26, 2012, 02:38:09 PM
Half the planet has compulsory military service.  ::)

If the man is too much of a coward, (don't believe the lie about having a concience) then he should be jailed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_service (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_service)
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 26, 2012, 02:39:11 PM
Maybe it was the big bad Jews that done this too.....

Quote
Theft and Destruction at Jewish-Owned Olive Grove

A Jewish farmer went to harvest olives Tuesday from his grove in the Shilo region, but discovered his trees sawn and stripped of fruit.
 

AAFont Size
 By Chana Ya'ar
First Publish: 10/25/2012, 11:00 AM
 



Jewish olive grove destroyed in Shomron

Israel news photo: Shomron Residents' Council
 


A Jewish farmer went to harvest olives Tuesday morning from his grove in the Shilo region in Samaria (Shomron), but discovered that his grove had been stripped of the fruit. Dozens of trees were destroyed as well, their branches chopped. Many were sawn down.
 
Farmer Erez Ben-Saadom was left with only broken branches, he said, and fabric olive sacks with Arabic writing. There were also some olives spilled on the ground.
 
“We don't know what to do now,” the farmer said. “We are talking about tens of thousands of shekels lost, and serious damage to the grove.”
 
Ben-Saadon said it's not the first time he has has fallen victim to theft and vandalism from his Arab neighbors. “Last Sabbath, Arabs harvested from my trees and stole olives from 40 other trees in the same area,” he told Arutz Sheva. “A few years ago, they planted three bombs in our vineyard in Har Bracha,” he added. “It was a miracle nobody was hurt.
 
“Uprooting trees, theft and throwing rocks at farmers is not rare, unfortunately,” he said. “Every year we suffer from assaults and thefts, both from the Arabs and from anarchists and leftist who come here from around the world.
 
“It's outrageous that next to my home in Rechelim, Arabs harvest olives without being disturbed, and yet they attack us in the media as if we're plotting against them – while Arab attacks and thefts targeting Jewish farmers in Samaria are met with silence,” he declared.
 
Samaria (Shomron) Residents' Committee head Benny Katzover confirmed that farmers in the region have faced frequent harassment, theft and vandalism during the olive harvest season, as well as attempted libel.
 
“Unfortunately, this serious issue is met with a lack of proper response,” Katzover said. “I call on the legal authorities to take Arab and far-left attacks as seriously as they take Jewish attacks on Arabs,” he added.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161327 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161327)

BDB. What sort of Arabs are these people referred to in your posts ? Are they Algerians or Omanis or what? I would appreciate an explanation.
Why don't you click on the link and find out?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: AZOffaly on October 26, 2012, 02:39:36 PM
You believe that everyone who feels they cannot serve in the military is a coward?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 26, 2012, 02:51:39 PM
No, it would be absurd to think that. This man knew he was going to have to do military service when he returned to Israel, but chose not to. He was given the chance to plead his case to the Israeli conscience committee, but his case was rejected. They didn't believe he was a real conscientious objector.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: AZOffaly on October 26, 2012, 03:05:55 PM
Surely that makes him more courageous, not less, and probably even more principled. If you return somewhere where you *know* you are going to be pressed into the military, by law, yet you still go and try to make a stand against that conscription, is that not saying something about his motivation?

It might say that he's someone who is deliberately causing this issue so he can highlight his beliefs, but it hardly makes him a 'coward'.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 26, 2012, 03:32:38 PM
Maybe it was the big bad Jews that done this too.....

Quote
Theft and Destruction at Jewish-Owned Olive Grove

A Jewish farmer went to harvest olives Tuesday from his grove in the Shilo region, but discovered his trees sawn and stripped of fruit.
 

AAFont Size
 By Chana Ya'ar
First Publish: 10/25/2012, 11:00 AM
 



Jewish olive grove destroyed in Shomron

Israel news photo: Shomron Residents' Council
 


A Jewish farmer went to harvest olives Tuesday morning from his grove in the Shilo region in Samaria (Shomron), but discovered that his grove had been stripped of the fruit. Dozens of trees were destroyed as well, their branches chopped. Many were sawn down.
 
Farmer Erez Ben-Saadom was left with only broken branches, he said, and fabric olive sacks with Arabic writing. There were also some olives spilled on the ground.
 
“We don't know what to do now,” the farmer said. “We are talking about tens of thousands of shekels lost, and serious damage to the grove.”
 
Ben-Saadon said it's not the first time he has has fallen victim to theft and vandalism from his Arab neighbors. “Last Sabbath, Arabs harvested from my trees and stole olives from 40 other trees in the same area,” he told Arutz Sheva. “A few years ago, they planted three bombs in our vineyard in Har Bracha,” he added. “It was a miracle nobody was hurt.
 
“Uprooting trees, theft and throwing rocks at farmers is not rare, unfortunately,” he said. “Every year we suffer from assaults and thefts, both from the Arabs and from anarchists and leftist who come here from around the world.
 
“It's outrageous that next to my home in Rechelim, Arabs harvest olives without being disturbed, and yet they attack us in the media as if we're plotting against them – while Arab attacks and thefts targeting Jewish farmers in Samaria are met with silence,” he declared.
 
Samaria (Shomron) Residents' Committee head Benny Katzover confirmed that farmers in the region have faced frequent harassment, theft and vandalism during the olive harvest season, as well as attempted libel.
 
“Unfortunately, this serious issue is met with a lack of proper response,” Katzover said. “I call on the legal authorities to take Arab and far-left attacks as seriously as they take Jewish attacks on Arabs,” he added.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161327 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161327)

BDB. What sort of Arabs are these people referred to in your posts ? Are they Algerians or Omanis or what? I would appreciate an explanation.
Why don't you click on the link and find out?
Because Jewish settlers are scumbags and that's a settler site.
I wouldn't read the BNF site either. 

Why do Zionists call Palestinians "Arabs" anyway? Because there is no such thing as a Palestinian under the laws of Zionism. They are just some class of non humans. 
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 26, 2012, 03:52:08 PM
Go ahead, let it all out.

Jewish settlers, scumbags? You'd be more welcome in the NF than you realise, with your anti jewish leanings. Some might even call you an anti semite.  :-X


Ar·ab
   [ar-uhb] 

noun
1.
a member of a Semitic people inhabiting Arabia and other countries of the Middle East.

2.
a member of any Arabic-speaking people.


Is that enough for you?











BTW, if anyone were to post on this site that catholics or muslims were scumbags, they would be banned. But it seems OK to call Jews scumbags. Thats OK then.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: LeoMc on October 26, 2012, 04:03:15 PM
BDB - fascinating. It is very strange that the Arab parties would be so pro Palestinian. Do you have any ideas as to why this might happen ? it couldn't happen here.  Imagine Irish catholics in Westmeath taking an interest in British catholics living in Armagh. The mind boggles.

I'm sure the Thatcherite press was stuffed to the gills during the apartheid era with tales of the good blacks who wanted to engage with the government of South Africa and condemned the terrorism of Mandela and the ANC. It would have been nauseating then too.

In the 1980's the SDLP wanted constitutional politics and were condemning the activities of the IRA.

I see. By that logic, I presume you think the UK and South Africa were comparable states during that period.
No more comparable than than South Africa and Israel.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 26, 2012, 04:28:31 PM
When Israel bombed the UN buildings and schools in Gaza during Cast Lead, their spokesman, Mark Regev, came on TV and said they responded to fire from these locations. We knew all along they were lying, and today they have admitted to lying. What else did they lie about?

This is Mark Regev telling said lies to Paxman on Newsnight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9wv0giW1elo

This is his interview with Jon Snow where Jon cuts him off at the end due to his lies, complete with sub titles to explain what Mark is really saying !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMd_js_oQAk

This is Irishman John Ging, the head of the UN relief and works agency in Gaza during Cast Lead, explain how Israel knew the exact locations of their buildings and still went ahead and bombed them.

Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 26, 2012, 04:34:16 PM
Go ahead, let it all out.

Jewish settlers, scumbags? You'd be more welcome in the NF than you realise, with your anti jewish leanings. Some might even call you an anti semite.  :-X


Ar·ab
   [ar-uhb] 

noun
1.
a member of a Semitic people inhabiting Arabia and other countries of the Middle East.

2.
a member of any Arabic-speaking people.


Is that enough for you?


BTW, if anyone were to post on this site that catholics or muslims were scumbags, they would be banned. But it seems OK to call Jews scumbags. Thats OK then.
BDB

It has been a great laugh this week with your attempts to pretend your are a hasbara expert but you are a poor actor.

Anyone who seizes land of peasants at gunpoint with the backing of an army and claims it in the name of God is a sc**bag in my view. The Moroccan settlers in Western Sahara are also scumbags.  As was/were  Ian Smith, the Portuguese in Angola etc

It has nothing to do with the religion of the people involved.  Israeli  colonialism in the West Bank is illegal under international law.

If I took over your house and claimed it was mine because of something G-d said to
Abraham you wouldn't like it either, would you ?

Re" Israeli Arabs" - call them Palestinians, like everyone else does.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 26, 2012, 04:37:36 PM
When Israel bombed the UN buildings and schools in Gaza during Cast Lead, their spokesman, Mark Regev, came on TV and said they responded to fire from these locations. We knew all along they were lying, and today they have admitted to lying. What else did they lie about?

This is Mark Regev telling said lies to Paxman on Newsnight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9wv0giW1elo

This is his interview with Jon Snow where Jon cuts him off at the end due to his lies, complete with sub titles to explain what Mark is really saying !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMd_js_oQAk

This is Irishman John Ging, the head of the UN relief and works agency in Gaza during Cast Lead, explain how Israel knew the exact locations of their buildings and still went ahead and bombed them.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1NCyAK3rDA
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: deiseach on October 26, 2012, 04:46:52 PM
No more comparable than than South Africa and Israel.

Israel is unquestionably comparable to apartheid South Africa. Both are states where rights are conferred based on blood. Israel wouldn't even dispute that, so why would anyone else?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 26, 2012, 04:57:13 PM
There are many courageous Israeli's who refuse to serve in the IDF, and they usually all go to jail. Another group of people are current IDF soldiers who refuse to take part. 550 of the put their names to the following statement:

We, reserve combat officers and soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces, who were raised upon the principles of Zionism, sacrifice and giving to the people of Israel and to the State of Israel, who have always served in the front lines, and who were the first to carry out any mission, light or heavy, in order to protect the State of Israel and strengthen it.

We, combat officers and soldiers who have served the State of Israel for long weeks every year, in spite of the dear cost to our personal lives, have been on reserve duty all over the Occupied Territories, and were issued commands and directives that had nothing to do with the security of our country, and that had the sole purpose of perpetuating our control over the Palestinian people.

We, whose eyes have seen the bloody toll this Occupation exacts from both sides.

We, who sensed how the commands issued to us in the Territories, destroy all the values we had absorbed while growing up in this country.

We, who understand now that the price of Occupation is the loss of IDF’s human character and the corruption of the entire Israeli society.

We, who know that the Territories are not Israel, and that all settlements are bound to be evacuated in the end.

We hereby declare that we shall not continue to fight this War of the Settlements.

We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate, expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.

We hereby declare that we shall continue serving in the Israel Defense Forces in any mission that serves Israel’s defense.

The missions of occupation and oppression do not serve this purpose – and we shall take no part in them.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 26, 2012, 05:00:49 PM
Has anyone got a problem with me quoting the ultra zionist Guardian?  ::)



Israel is hostile towards Arabs, but it is not an apartheid state

My experience of apartheid in South Africa leads me to think a survey of Israeli attitudes towards Arabs has been spun too far




Benjamin Pogrund

guardian.co.uk, Friday 26 October 2012 16.32 BST



That Israel's Jewish public has moved sharply to the right in recent years is well known. There's a rightwing government to prove it – and so beyond challenge is Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, and so confident about his hold on power, that he has called early elections for January. Indeed the government will shift even further to the right with this week's dramatic announcement that Netanyahu's Likud party will join forces for the elections with the foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman's Yisrael Beiteinu (Israel Our Home).

Lieberman, who speaks for many of the Russian immigrants who form about 20% of the population, stands well to the right of even the rightwing Likud, so Netanyahu could run into problems with some of his own members in addition to their resentment at being pushed down the list for parliamentary seats. If the link endures greater curtailment of civil liberties can be expected, harsher attitudes towards Israeli Arabs who also form about 20% of the population, and less influence for Jewish religious parties.

Even with all this, the extent of the hostility expressed by Israeli Jews towards the country's Arab citizens, reported in an opinion survey this week, still comes as a shock: among much else, 42% said they don't want their children in the same school class with Arab children and 42% don't want to live in the same building with Arabs.

A second look moderates the shock. The survey notes that those with the strongest anti-Arab prejudices are religious and ultra-Orthodox Jews – and this is no surprise. Rabbis incite feelings against Arabs and issue circulars urging Jews not to rent or sell property to Arabs.

The ultra-Orthodox go further and not only shun Arabs but, perhaps even more, fellow Jews and especially those who are secular. The ultra-Orthodox keep their children in their own separate schools and live in their own separate neighbourhoods. Not only do they keep seculars and Arabs, and indeed the whole world, at bay but they also discriminate among themselves: many Ashkenazim (Jews of Western origin) view Sephardim (Jews who originate mainly from Arab countries) as less "pure" in their practice of Judaism and thus some Ashkenazi schools for girls impose a quota for Sephardim.

The survey's picture is very different for the secular – who form the majority of Israel's Jews: 73% did not object to having Arabs in their children's school, and 68% would live in an apartment building alongside Arabs.

These are remarkably positive views in light of the effect of the Palestinian suicide bombings during the Second Intifada in driving many Israeli Jews to the right, plus the continuing threats to Israel's existence by Iran and Palestinian militants and their supporters in the world. The firing of rockets and mortars – more than 80 this week – at southern Israel from the Gaza Strip by Hamas and others adds to antipathy towards Palestinians. Rightwing leaders gain support by playing on Jewish fears.

The survey's handling of Jewish views about the West Bank, based on a hypothetical annexation by Israel, raises questions about the way it was conducted and how the results were presented to the public: 69% of Israeli Jews, according to the survey, would oppose giving the West Bank's 2.5 million Palestinians the vote inside Israel. The summary of the survey is headlined: "In case of annexation, most Jews will support apartheid."

I know about apartheid. I was born in South Africa and spent 26 years as a journalist specialising in reporting apartheid; I have also written several books about it. I only left South Africa because my newspaper, the Rand Daily Mail, of which I was then deputy editor, was closed down by its commercial owners under pressure from the government. We paid the price for being the country's leading voice against apartheid.

I also am familiar with Israel. I have lived in Jerusalem since 1997 and for more than 12 years was founder director of the Yakar Center for Social Concern whose purpose was to promote dialogue between Jews and Christians, Jews and Muslims, and Israelis and Palestinians. I was surprised by the survey's findings: could it really be true that most Jews in Israel support apartheid?

Scratch this a little bit and there is a much simpler explanation than alleged "apartheid" for so many opposing giving Palestinians the vote: to do so would, in demographic terms, mean the end of Israel as a Jewish state; on the other hand, denying Palestinians the vote in a one-nation state would end Israel's democratic basis.

With all the survey's references to "apartheid" it cannot be said how those interviewed understood the word. Was it explained to them? How?

The apartheid theme was projected strongly in Haaretz, Israel's liberal newspaper. The writer, Gideon Levy, is famed for his exposes of the evils of occupation; he is also one of the small, perhaps tiny, number of Israeli journalists and academics who seek to pin the "apartheid" tag on Israel.

He wrote that, "a sweeping 74% majority is in favour of separate roads for Israelis and Palestinians in the West Bank". But the sentence that follows needs to be noted: 24% believed separate roads were "a good situation" and 54% believed they were "a necessary situation". Decoded, this gets to the heart of the issue of the separate roads which Israel has built for some settlements. Critics say this is apartheid. But as the 54% indicate, they see it as a security issue; that is, it is the (expensive and extravagant) way to counter drive-by and roadside shootings which have killed many settlers. Nor (and this is little understood) are the roads only for Jews: the cars allowed on it are those with Israeli black and yellow number plates, irrespective of whether the driver is an Israeli Jew or Arab; the barred cars are those with Palestinian green and white plates.

Levy's report said that the survey had been commissioned by the US-based New Israel Fund's Yisraela Goldblum Fund. But the New Israel Fund, a major player in fostering equality and democracy in Israel, quickly announced that it had nothing to do with the survey. With equal speed its deputy communications director, Noam Shelef, wrote in New York's Daily Beast that the survey actually shows that Israelis want to separate themselves from the West Bank: "So, claiming the poll demonstrates support for 'apartheid' is spin at its worst." He said it "seems to amount to a misrepresentation of the data".


Whatever attitudes might be claimed for Israel's Jewish public the situation on the ground does not support accusations of apartheid. The Arab population, some 20%, certainly suffers discrimination but to liken their lot to apartheid South Africa is baseless, indeed ridiculous. Arabs have the vote, which in itself makes them fundamentally different from South Africa's black population under apartheid. And even the current rightwing government says that it wants to overcome Arab disadvantage and promises action to upgrade education and housing and increase job opportunities. Of course time will show how genuine it is.
The West Bank is a linked but separate issue: it's a military occupation which, in its nature, is violent and discriminatory. Trying to put an erroneous apartheid label on it confuses and distorts and is propagandistic.

Why do I dismiss the apartheid analogies so emphatically? Because I straddle both apartheid South Africa and Israel today and have knowledge of the good and the ill in both societies.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 26, 2012, 05:02:53 PM
There are many courageous Israeli's who refuse to serve in the IDF, and they usually all go to jail. Another group of people are current IDF soldiers who refuse to take part. 550 of the put their names to the following statement:

We, reserve combat officers and soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces, who were raised upon the principles of Zionism, sacrifice and giving to the people of Israel and to the State of Israel, who have always served in the front lines, and who were the first to carry out any mission, light or heavy, in order to protect the State of Israel and strengthen it.

We, combat officers and soldiers who have served the State of Israel for long weeks every year, in spite of the dear cost to our personal lives, have been on reserve duty all over the Occupied Territories, and were issued commands and directives that had nothing to do with the security of our country, and that had the sole purpose of perpetuating our control over the Palestinian people.

We, whose eyes have seen the bloody toll this Occupation exacts from both sides.

We, who sensed how the commands issued to us in the Territories, destroy all the values we had absorbed while growing up in this country.

We, who understand now that the price of Occupation is the loss of IDF’s human character and the corruption of the entire Israeli society.

We, who know that the Territories are not Israel, and that all settlements are bound to be evacuated in the end.

We hereby declare that we shall not continue to fight this War of the Settlements.

We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate, expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.

We hereby declare that we shall continue serving in the Israel Defense Forces in any mission that serves Israel’s defense.

The missions of occupation and oppression do not serve this purpose – and we shall take no part in them.

When the settlers go to the Wailing wall they pray the Shema like the rest of their people. It is the holiest prayer in Judaism. 

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/706162/jewish/Translation.htm

"And it will be, if you will diligently obey My commandments which I enjoin upon you this day, to love the L-rd your G-d and to serve Him with all your heart and with all your soul, I will give rain for your land at the proper time, the early rain and the late rain, and you will gather in your grain, your wine and your oil. And I will give grass in your fields for your cattle, and you will eat and be sated. Take care lest your heart be lured away, and you turn astray and worship alien gods and bow down to them. For then the L-rd's wrath will flare up against you, and He will close the heavens so that there will be no rain and the earth will not yield its produce, and you will swiftly perish from the good land which the L-rd gives you. "


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfF6-TkAnBM


The settlements are an alien god. Torture is an alien god.
There was a similar incident with a golden calf a while ago.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 26, 2012, 05:07:31 PM
No more comparable than than South Africa and Israel.

Israel is unquestionably comparable to apartheid South Africa. Both are states where rights are conferred based on blood. Israel wouldn't even dispute that, so why would anyone else?


Good article for you Deiseach

Address by President Nelson Mandela at the International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People in 1997

http://anc.org.za/show.php?id=3384
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: deiseach on October 26, 2012, 05:20:42 PM
Has anyone got a problem with me quoting the ultra zionist Guardian?  ::)

Not at all. The author lists numerous examples of the nature of Israel as an apartheid state. After all that, his conclusion seems to be it's not an apartheid state because 1) some Arabs have the vote and 2) it just isn't, okay? I don't think you read it.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 26, 2012, 07:11:45 PM
When Israel bombed the UN buildings and schools in Gaza during Cast Lead, their spokesman, Mark Regev, came on TV and said they responded to fire from these locations. We knew all along they were lying, and today they have admitted to lying. What else did they lie about?

This is Mark Regev telling said lies to Paxman on Newsnight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9wv0giW1elo

This is his interview with Jon Snow where Jon cuts him off at the end due to his lies, complete with sub titles to explain what Mark is really saying !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMd_js_oQAk

This is Irishman John Ging, the head of the UN relief and works agency in Gaza during Cast Lead, explain how Israel knew the exact locations of their buildings and still went ahead and bombed them.

Thanks for the Regev Links, GHD

This internet thing is fabulous. 

"Israel uses no weapons that are illegal under international law" " we are conducting our internal investigations"
"We take such allegations extremely seriously"

What a lying b*stard

But what would you expect, frankly?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 28, 2012, 04:24:28 PM

Saudi Arabia Funds Mossad Anti-Iran Operations’

An article posted by a former CBS News editor claims that none other than Saudi Arabia helps fund Israeli Mossad operations against Iran.
 

AAFont Size
 By Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu
First Publish: 10/28/2012, 1:25 PM
 



Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
 

An article posted by a former CBS News producer Barry Lando claims that none other than Saudi Arabia helps fund Israeli Mossad operations against Iran.
 
"A Strange Alliance: Are the Saudis Bankrolling Israel's Mossad?" appears on his blog. Lando’s source is named only as “a friend, with good sources in the Israeli government.”
 
He wrote, “The head of Israel's Mossad has made several trips to deal with his counterparts in Saudi Arabia-one of the results: an agreement that the Saudis would bankroll the series of assassinations of several of Iran's top nuclear experts that have occurred over the past couple of years.
 
“The amount involved, my friend claims, was $1 billion dollars. A sum, he says, the Saudis considered cheap for the damage done to Iran's nuclear program.”

Lando admitted that “the tale sounds preposterous” but added, “On the other hand. it makes eminent sense. The murky swamp of Middle East politics has nothing to do with the easy slogans and 30-second sound bites of presidential debates.”
 
Israel and Saudi Arabia have at least one thing in common: neither country wants to allow Ahmadinejad to obtain nuclear capability.
 
Lando noted that the claim of the strange alliance “also makes perfect sense, that, in retaliation for the cyber attacks on their centrifuges, the Iranians reportedly launched their own cyber attack on a Saudi state-owned target: Saudi Aramco, the world’s most valuable company.”
 
Aramco’s computer system suffered a massive cyber attack in August, and American intelligence officials have blamed Iran.
 
“A report earlier this year by Tel Aviv University cites Saudi Arabia as the last hope and defense line for Israel,” Lando wrote. “With most of Israel’s traditional allies in the region sent packing or undermined by the Arab Spring, the Saudis are the Jewish State’s last chance to protect its political interests in the Arab world.”
 
Lando has long experience on Iran. He recently wrote a book called "Web of Deceit: The History of Western Complicity in Iraq, from Churchill to Kennedy to George W. Bush.”
 
He charged on Counterpunch earlier this year that Israel, the United States and Iran do not understand each other’s motives while “their advisors are engaged in an incredibly dangerous three-way game of blind man's bluff.”
 
He said he personally ran into American ignorance in 1980 when he was producing '60 Minutes'.
 
“I was struck by the total inability of Americans—even at the highest level—to understand the emotions and history that drove the hatred of all things American that had exploded in Iran with the fall of the Shah,” Lando wrote.
 
“Just up West 57th street from CBS News, for instance, was a huge billboard with the diabolical image of Khomeini glowering down on New York. I suggested we do a report to give Americans a better idea of what was driving Iran’s revolutionaries and their violent feelings against the United States….
 
“I stitched together a tough report with Mike Wallace based on a series of interviews in New York and Washington.’ Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger was charged by one interviewee “for turning a blind eye to the excesses of the Shah, and refusing to have any contact with the opposition groups.”
 
Lando also reported that classified U.S. documents exposed by Iran “showed that American diplomats based in Teheran had warned Washington months earlier of the threat of a possible hostage-taking – particularly if the U.S. allowed the despised Shah to come to America for medical treatment, as the U.S. ultimately did. Those warnings had been completely ignored by Washington.”
 
However, before the program was broadcast, President Jimmy Carter called the president of CBS News “to try to convince him not to broadcast the report. It would, he said, undermine U.S. negotiations with Iran at a very delicate time.”
 
CBS did not agree to back down but agreed to change the report’s title from “Should the U.S. Apologize?” to a more neutral “The Iran File.”
 
“It was difficult to understand how our report could upset the hostage negotiations,” wrote Lando. “We were not revealing any secrets to Iran. The Iranians already knew well the role of the U.S. in their own history. The people we were informing were 20 million Americans — who didn’t understand what was really roiling Iran.
 
“And still don’t.”



http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161407 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161407)

At least the Saudis know the right side to be on.  ;)
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 28, 2012, 05:52:38 PM
Israeli embassy slurs Vincent Browne as an antisemite for saying
 

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/i-am-not-antisemitic-claims-vincent-browne-3276074.html

"Israel is the cancer in foreign affairs. It polarises the Islamic community of the world against the rest of the world"

Meanwhile over in Chicago , Rahm Emanuel tells Israel that Obama has managed to isolate Iran from the est of the world as a service to
Israel


http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/focus-u-s-a/rahm-emanuel-to-haaretz-thanks-to-obama-iran-is-isolated-from-the-world.premium-1.472638


“Emanuel replies that President Obama has been “a very good friend of Israel” on each of the key issues concerning the two countries’ relationship: The peace process, Iran, the Arab spring, military cooperation and common values.
 
On Iran, Emanuel said that “there is an appreciation of Israel’s sense of threat of Iran acquiring a nuclear weapon – and when he (Obama) went into the Oval office, when it came to Iran and the international community, America was isolated – in three and a half years, the tables have been turned, and Iran is isolated from the world. That’s because of the leadership of the President.””

And Emanuel is not a co religionist of VB either
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 28, 2012, 06:40:18 PM

US Slams 'Irresponsible and Unacceptable' Israel Boycott

Amb. Susan Rice slammed Richard Falk's call for a boycott of companies accused of profiting from “illegal Israeli settlements."
 

AAFont Size
 By Rachel Hirshfeld
First Publish: 10/28/2012, 9:26 AM
 



U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Susan Rice

Israel news photo: Flash 90
 

The U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Susan Rice, on Thursday slammed United Nations special rapporteur Richard Falk's call for a boycott of private companies accused of profiting from the so-called “illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank” as being “irresponsible and unacceptable.”
 
Falk singled out U.S. companies including Caterpillar, Motorola and Hewlett-Packard along with other multinationals in a report to the U.N. on Thursday.
 
“My main recommendation is that the businesses highlighted in the report — as well as the many other businesses that are profiting from the Israeli settlement enterprise — should be boycotted, until they bring their operations into line with international human rights and humanitarian law and standards,” Falk said in a statement emailed by the UN.
 
“In short, businesses should not breach international humanitarian law provisions. Nor should they be complicit in any breaches,” he charged. “If they do, they may be subject to criminal or civil liability. And this liability can be extended to individual employees of such businesses.”
 
The U.S. delegation has repeatedly clashed with Falk over his anti-Israeli bias and his suggestion of a U.S. cover-up in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.
 
“Throughout his tenure as Special Rapporteur, Mr. Falk has been highly biased and made offensive statements, including outrageous comments on the 9/11 attacks,” Rice said.
 
“Mr. Falk’s recommendations do nothing to further a peaceful settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and indeed poison the environment for peace. His continued service in the role of a UN Special Rapporteur is deeply regrettable and only damages the credibility of the UN,” Rice added.
 
Falk is an American professor emeritus of international law at Princeton University and was appointed as special rapporteur in 2008 to a six-year term.


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161395 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161395)
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 29, 2012, 10:10:38 AM
BDB- do you honestly think the Israelis are interested in the 2 state solution?

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/ahead-of-israel-election-pa-bid-in-un-may-push-netanyahu-to-harsh-unilateral-reaction-diplomats-say.premium-1.472367

The PA is expected to seek a vote in the UN General Assembly next month, at which point Israel's election campaign will be in full swing, with several parties holding primaries in late November. This is liable to lead ministers and Knesset members to vie with each other over who can offer a tougher response.
Thus even delaying the vote by a few months, until after the Israeli elections, would help prevent a disaster, ministry officials say.
"Even today, the atmosphere in the Prime Minister's Bureau is one of 'this time, we'll show them what's what,'" said a former senior official who was involved in discussions on the matter between Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his aides. "Likud ministers will pressure him, the polls will scare him. And from there it's not far to a response that would bring about a violent conflagration or the collapse of the Palestinian Authority."
Senior Foreign Ministry officials and Israeli diplomats abroad have been warning of a scenario in which Israel's government "goes crazy" the day after the UN vote. And far from being insulted, politicians are encouraging this campaign.
"We suggest that the European Union take Israel's political needs into account," said a document ministry staffers prepared for Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon before his meeting this week with EU envoy Andreas Reinicke. "Israel is entering a campaign season, and consideration must be given to the fact that its government, too, is liable to find itself under political pressure to respond suitably to unilateral Palestinian moves."
A similar briefing paper was prepared for Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman before his meeting with EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton on Wednesday, and ambassadors worldwide have been asked to give their host governments similar messages.
A senior government official said both Netanyahu and Lieberman warned Ashton that the PA's UN bid would be a "game-changing move" that would spark unilateral Israeli measures in response. "We're asking all these states to make the dangerous ramifications of this move clear to the Palestinians," he added.
Lieberman also told Ashton that the Foreign Ministry has prepared a "toolbox" of possible responses, ranging from relatively mild steps - like revoking PA officials' VIP passes or canceling work permits for Palestinians in Israel - to severe measures like approving construction of thousands of new houses in the settlements or halting tax transfers to the PA. The latter could result in the PA's financial collapse.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 29, 2012, 11:16:59 AM
Israeli embassy slurs Vincent Browne as an antisemite for saying
 

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/i-am-not-antisemitic-claims-vincent-browne-3276074.html

"Israel is the cancer in foreign affairs. It polarises the Islamic community of the world against the rest of the world"


Vincent fell into the trap of been labelled anti semitic just for been critical of Israel. It is the standard response whenever critism is levelled against them.
Much the same as anyone who is critical of Stormont is now labelled a dissident.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 29, 2012, 11:38:54 AM
Israeli embassy slurs Vincent Browne as an antisemite for saying
 

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/i-am-not-antisemitic-claims-vincent-browne-3276074.html

"Israel is the cancer in foreign affairs. It polarises the Islamic community of the world against the rest of the world"


Vincent fell into the trap of been labelled anti semitic just for been critical of Israel. It is the standard response whenever critism is levelled against them.
Much the same as anyone who is critical of Stormont is now labelled a dissident.
I think the term " antisemite "has become so diluted now through Israeli misuse that it has lost most of its meaning.
It's like "the boy who cried wolf". 
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 29, 2012, 04:47:14 PM
The whole raison d'etre of both Hamas and PLO/Fatah is the destruction of Israel. Their ethos has never changed in this matter, so what makes you think they have any intention of allowing the Israelis to live in peace behind ANY border, pre 67 or otherwise.

Do either of you honestly believe that the Palestinians will let Israel have peace if they were to give up Gaza, the west bank and east Jerusalem? Honestly?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 29, 2012, 05:05:33 PM
The whole raison d'etre of both Hamas and PLO/Fatah is the destruction of Israel. Their ethos has never changed in this matter, so what makes you think they have any intention of allowing the Israelis to live in peace behind ANY border, pre 67 or otherwise.

Do either of you honestly believe that the Palestinians will let Israel have peace if they were to give up Gaza, the west bank and east Jerusalem? Honestly?
I do. They have offered Israel full recognition and a demilitarised Palestine but the Israeli Jews want all the land because as Abraham Foxman of AIPAC says they have a covenant with God and they are God's people (WTF).

Fatah is the Palestine Liberation Organisation and Hamas means the Islamic resistance movement.
Anyway, the fact is that 50% of the people living in greater Israel are non Jews and have virtually no rights.
And will Israel be able to pull this off indefinitely? Of course it won't   
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on October 29, 2012, 06:05:22 PM
There has been a case I have been following involving 5 men who have just had their final appeal to the Supreme Court dismissed, and they are to stay in jail. One of them was sentenced to 65 years. Their crime was to provide humanitarian aid to the Palestinians. It is a disgraceful decision, and one that makes a mockery out of US justice.

Below is a background to their case.

The Holy Land Five Case


by NOOR ELASHI

As we approach the tenth anniversary of 9/11, and my father remains incarcerated in a modern-day internment camp, the time in which we live begins to feel less like 2011 and more like 1942. But this week could determine whether today’s justice system is capable of rewriting the sad chapters of our history. I say this week because on Thursday, the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals will hear the long-awaited oral arguments in the Holy Land Foundation case, involving what was once our country’s largest Muslim charitable organization.

Meet my father, Ghassan Elashi. The co-founder of the HLF. Inmate number 29687-177, sentenced to 65 years in prison for his charity work in Palestine. He is an American citizen from Gaza City, who before his imprisonment, took part in the immigration rally in Downtown Dallas, joining the half a million people wearing white, chanting ¡Si, se puede! The prison walls have not hindered his voice, as he writes to me, heartbroken about the homes destroyed during the earthquake in Haiti, the young protesters killed indiscriminately in Syria, the children lost to the famine in Somalia. Most frequently, he writes to me about the Japanese-American internment.

Now meet Fred T. Korematsu, who after Peal Harbor was among the 120,000 Japanese-Americans ordered to live in internment camps. This was in 1942, when President Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9066, which authorized the military detainment of Japanese-Americans to ten concentration camps during World War II. Mr. Korematsu defied orders to be interned, because he viewed the forced removal as unconstitutional. So on May 30, 1942, Mr. Korematsu was arrested. His case was argued all the way to the Supreme Court, which ultimately ruled against him, stating that his jailing was justified due to military necessity.

Nearly forty years later, in 1983, Mr. Korematsu’s case was reopened, and on Nov. 10, 1983, the conviction was overturned. Judge Marilyn Hall Patel notably said, “It stands as a caution that, in times of international hostility and antagonisms, our institutions, legislative, executive and judicial, must be prepared to exercise their authority to protect all citizens from the petty fears and prejudices that are so easily aroused.”

Fast-forward six years. It’s already 1989, when my father co-finds the HLF, which becomes a prominent American Muslim charity that provides relief—through clothes, food, blankets and medicine—to Palestinians and other populations in desperate need. Then, in 1996, President Clinton signs the Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act, giving birth to the Material Support Statute, a law that in time would come under fire by civil libertarians for profiling and targeting Arab and Muslim Americans.

Two years later, in 1998, Clinton awards Mr. Korematsu with the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest citizen honor, condemning Mr. Korematsu’s persecution as a shameful moment in our history.Three years later, the towers fall.

And President Bush declares a “War on Terror.”

In 2001, President Bush signs the Patriot Act, which strengthens the Material Support Statue. The law’s language is so vague that it gives prosecutors the authority to argue that humanitarian aid to designated terrorist organizations could be indirect, and therefore, a crime.

In my father’s case, he is charged with conspiring to give Material Support in the form of humanitarian aid to Palestinian distribution centers called zakat committees. Prosecutors admit the zakat committees on the indictment were not designated terrorist groups, but according to the indictment released in 2004, these zakat committees are “controlled by” or act “on behalf of” Hamas, which was designated in 1995. Their theory is that by providing charity to zakat committees, the HLF helped Hamas win the “hearts and minds” of the Palestinian people.

The HLF case was tried in 2007, lasting three months, and after 19 days of deliberations, the jury deadlocked on most counts. The judge declared a mistrial and the case was tried the following year.

In 2008, after essentially the same arguments, the retrial ended with the jury returning all guilty verdicts, and in 2009, my father was sentenced to 65 years in prison, for essentially giving humanitarian aid to Palestinians.

In 2010, my father was transferred to a “Communications Management Unit” in Marion, Illinois—the aforementioned modern-day internment camp. The CMU received the nickname “Guantanamo North” by National Public Radio since two-thirds of its inmates are Middle Eastern or Muslim. The purpose of this prison—which has another branch in Terre Haute, Indiana—is to closely monitor inmates and limit their communications with their families, attorneys and the media. Thus, I only get to hear my father’s voice once every two weeks, for fifteen minutes. And our visitations take place behind an obtrusive Plexiglass wall.

My father and his co-defendants—now called the Holy Land Five—are in the final stages of the appeal as the oral arguments approach on Thursday. In the Fifth Circuit Court in New Orleans, defense attorneys will urge the panel of three justices to reverse the HLF convictions based on errors that took place in the trial process.

According to the appellate brief, there’s a major fact that undermines the prosecution’s claim that Hamas controlled the zakat committees: “The United States Agency for International Development—which had strict instructions not to deal with Hamas—provided funds over many years to zakat committees named in the indictment, including the Jenin, Nablus, and Qalqilia committees,” writes my father’s attorney, John Cline. He continues stating that in 2004, upon the release of the HLF indictment, “USAID provided $47,000 to the Qalqilia zakat committee.”

Furthermore, defense attorneys will argue that the district court:

a) Violated the right to due process by allowing a key witness to testify without providing his real name, thereby abusing my father’s right to confront his witness. They are referring to an Israeli intelligence officer who became the first person in U.S. history permitted to testify as an expert witness using a pseudonym.

b) Abused its discretion by allowing “inflammatory evidence of little or no probative value,” which included multiple scenes of suicide bombings.

c) Deviated from the sentencing guidelines when they sentenced my father to 65 years.

When putting the lawyerly language aside, human rights attorneys have deemed the HLF case as purely political, perpetrated by the Bush administration. Likewise, the decision to intern Japanese-Americans was based on “race prejudice, war hysteria and failure of political leadership,” according to a 1982 report by the Commission on Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians.

I can only hope that my father’s vindication won’t take 40 years as it did for Mr. Korematsu. Let us learn from our old wrongs
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 29, 2012, 06:50:46 PM
There has been a case I have been following involving 5 men who have just had their final appeal to the Supreme Court dismissed, and they are to stay in jail. One of them was sentenced to 65 years. Their crime was to provide humanitarian aid to the Palestinians. It is a disgraceful decision, and one that makes a mockery out of US justice.

Below is a background to their case.

The Holy Land Five Case


by NOOR ELASHI

As we approach the tenth anniversary of 9/11, and my father remains incarcerated in a modern-day internment camp, the time in which we live begins to feel less like 2011 and more like 1942. But this week could determine whether today’s justice system is capable of rewriting the sad chapters of our history. I say this week because on Thursday, the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals will hear the long-awaited oral arguments in the Holy Land Foundation case, involving what was once our country’s largest Muslim charitable organization.

Meet my father, Ghassan Elashi. The co-founder of the HLF. Inmate number 29687-177, sentenced to 65 years in prison for his charity work in Palestine. He is an American citizen from Gaza City, who before his imprisonment, took part in the immigration rally in Downtown Dallas, joining the half a million people wearing white, chanting ¡Si, se puede! The prison walls have not hindered his voice, as he writes to me, heartbroken about the homes destroyed during the earthquake in Haiti, the young protesters killed indiscriminately in Syria, the children lost to the famine in Somalia. Most frequently, he writes to me about the Japanese-American internment.

Now meet Fred T. Korematsu, who after Peal Harbor was among the 120,000 Japanese-Americans ordered to live in internment camps. This was in 1942, when President Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9066, which authorized the military detainment of Japanese-Americans to ten concentration camps during World War II. Mr. Korematsu defied orders to be interned, because he viewed the forced removal as unconstitutional. So on May 30, 1942, Mr. Korematsu was arrested. His case was argued all the way to the Supreme Court, which ultimately ruled against him, stating that his jailing was justified due to military necessity.

Nearly forty years later, in 1983, Mr. Korematsu’s case was reopened, and on Nov. 10, 1983, the conviction was overturned. Judge Marilyn Hall Patel notably said, “It stands as a caution that, in times of international hostility and antagonisms, our institutions, legislative, executive and judicial, must be prepared to exercise their authority to protect all citizens from the petty fears and prejudices that are so easily aroused.”

Fast-forward six years. It’s already 1989, when my father co-finds the HLF, which becomes a prominent American Muslim charity that provides relief—through clothes, food, blankets and medicine—to Palestinians and other populations in desperate need. Then, in 1996, President Clinton signs the Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act, giving birth to the Material Support Statute, a law that in time would come under fire by civil libertarians for profiling and targeting Arab and Muslim Americans.

Two years later, in 1998, Clinton awards Mr. Korematsu with the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest citizen honor, condemning Mr. Korematsu’s persecution as a shameful moment in our history.Three years later, the towers fall.

And President Bush declares a “War on Terror.”

In 2001, President Bush signs the Patriot Act, which strengthens the Material Support Statue. The law’s language is so vague that it gives prosecutors the authority to argue that humanitarian aid to designated terrorist organizations could be indirect, and therefore, a crime.

In my father’s case, he is charged with conspiring to give Material Support in the form of humanitarian aid to Palestinian distribution centers called zakat committees. Prosecutors admit the zakat committees on the indictment were not designated terrorist groups, but according to the indictment released in 2004, these zakat committees are “controlled by” or act “on behalf of” Hamas, which was designated in 1995. Their theory is that by providing charity to zakat committees, the HLF helped Hamas win the “hearts and minds” of the Palestinian people.

The HLF case was tried in 2007, lasting three months, and after 19 days of deliberations, the jury deadlocked on most counts. The judge declared a mistrial and the case was tried the following year.

In 2008, after essentially the same arguments, the retrial ended with the jury returning all guilty verdicts, and in 2009, my father was sentenced to 65 years in prison, for essentially giving humanitarian aid to Palestinians.

In 2010, my father was transferred to a “Communications Management Unit” in Marion, Illinois—the aforementioned modern-day internment camp. The CMU received the nickname “Guantanamo North” by National Public Radio since two-thirds of its inmates are Middle Eastern or Muslim. The purpose of this prison—which has another branch in Terre Haute, Indiana—is to closely monitor inmates and limit their communications with their families, attorneys and the media. Thus, I only get to hear my father’s voice once every two weeks, for fifteen minutes. And our visitations take place behind an obtrusive Plexiglass wall.

My father and his co-defendants—now called the Holy Land Five—are in the final stages of the appeal as the oral arguments approach on Thursday. In the Fifth Circuit Court in New Orleans, defense attorneys will urge the panel of three justices to reverse the HLF convictions based on errors that took place in the trial process.

According to the appellate brief, there’s a major fact that undermines the prosecution’s claim that Hamas controlled the zakat committees: “The United States Agency for International Development—which had strict instructions not to deal with Hamas—provided funds over many years to zakat committees named in the indictment, including the Jenin, Nablus, and Qalqilia committees,” writes my father’s attorney, John Cline. He continues stating that in 2004, upon the release of the HLF indictment, “USAID provided $47,000 to the Qalqilia zakat committee.”

Furthermore, defense attorneys will argue that the district court:

a) Violated the right to due process by allowing a key witness to testify without providing his real name, thereby abusing my father’s right to confront his witness. They are referring to an Israeli intelligence officer who became the first person in U.S. history permitted to testify as an expert witness using a pseudonym.

b) Abused its discretion by allowing “inflammatory evidence of little or no probative value,” which included multiple scenes of suicide bombings.

c) Deviated from the sentencing guidelines when they sentenced my father to 65 years.

When putting the lawyerly language aside, human rights attorneys have deemed the HLF case as purely political, perpetrated by the Bush administration. Likewise, the decision to intern Japanese-Americans was based on “race prejudice, war hysteria and failure of political leadership,” according to a 1982 report by the Commission on Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians.

I can only hope that my father’s vindication won’t take 40 years as it did for Mr. Korematsu. Let us learn from our old wrongs


Care to answer the question?



Quote
The whole raison d'etre of both Hamas and PLO/Fatah is the destruction of Israel. Their ethos has never changed in this matter, so what makes you think they have any intention of allowing the Israelis to live in peace behind ANY border, pre 67 or otherwise.

Do either of you honestly believe that the Palestinians will let Israel have peace if they were to give up Gaza, the west bank and east Jerusalem? Honestly?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 30, 2012, 09:44:28 AM
BDB  This week you say

"The whole raison d'etre of both Hamas and PLO/Fatah is the destruction of Israel. Their ethos has never changed in this matter, so what makes you think they have any intention of allowing the Israelis to live in peace behind ANY border, pre 67 or otherwise."

Last week you said

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=22339.msg1169215#msg1169215
"Israel doesnt want the people to leave, it wants the headers who attack Israel to leave. But their military is a two edged sword. Without such a strong military, Israel would have been wiped out years ago. With it, they are overly militarised. As long as they feel threatened by their arab neighbours, they will maintain their military might. Catch 22."

So which is it? Are the Palestinian people housetrained enough to ready to live with Israel or not? 
Or do they deserve apartheid instead until they cop on ?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: thebigfella on October 30, 2012, 11:15:49 AM
I great to see the lads here have learned how to use cut and paste.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: ludermor on October 30, 2012, 11:41:14 AM
It is refreshing to get evenly balanced propaganda
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 30, 2012, 01:35:22 PM
Quote
Errors and omissions excepted

The headline of a news article last week was misleading. Most Israelis do support an apartheid regime, but only if the occupied territories are annexed; however, most Israelis oppose such annexation.


By Gideon Levy| 04:09 29.10.12




This article is meant to fix a few mistakes. They shouldn't have happened; we must acknowledge them, apologize for them and fix them. They were not made intentionally, but as a result of neglect due to time pressure. Now is the time to make things right.


This is the headline from GHD and seafoid's favourite paper, where they try to justify lying about the Israeli people wanting to live in an apartheid state.

Gideon Levy is a liar, who makes up stories to suit his own agenda. Anyone who takes his stories at face value is nothing but a fool.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/errors-and-omissions-excepted.premium-1.472852 (http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/errors-and-omissions-excepted.premium-1.472852)
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 30, 2012, 02:38:59 PM
Quote
Errors and omissions excepted

The headline of a news article last week was misleading. Most Israelis do support an apartheid regime, but only if the occupied territories are annexed; however, most Israelis oppose such annexation.


By Gideon Levy| 04:09 29.10.12




This article is meant to fix a few mistakes. They shouldn't have happened; we must acknowledge them, apologize for them and fix them. They were not made intentionally, but as a result of neglect due to time pressure. Now is the time to make things right.


This is the headline from GHD and seafoid's favourite paper, where they try to justify lying about the Israeli people wanting to live in an apartheid state.

Gideon Levy is a liar, who makes up stories to suit his own agenda. Anyone who takes his stories at face value is nothing but a fool.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/errors-and-omissions-excepted.premium-1.472852 (http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/errors-and-omissions-excepted.premium-1.472852)
BDS

Ha'aretz is an Israeli newspaper.
It is owned by Israeli Jews.
They know their stuff.
I have the feeling you don't.

"Gideon Levy is a liar, who makes up stories to suit his own agenda"

Go on then. Prove he's a liar. What stories has he made up.- give me at least 10 and links and why you think he lied.

The really depressing fact for Israel is that so many Jews hate Palestinians.
Israel is supposed to be just like Europe. It is supposed to be a normal country. And it is far worse than Portadown ever was.   
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 30, 2012, 02:40:08 PM
BDB

I just read the bit you highlighted

 Most Israelis do support an apartheid regime, but only if the occupied territories are annexed; however, most Israelis oppose such annexation.

WTF are you on about ? - Is the "but" what you think is important?   
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 30, 2012, 02:58:17 PM
Quote
This article is meant to fix a few mistakes. They shouldn't have happened; we must acknowledge them, apologize for them and fix them.
Are you seriously that deluded by your hatred of everything Israeli, that you can't accept that he has admitted to not telling the truth?

The Sun is a British newspaper, so we must believe everything they write. After all, they are British and we aren't. They know what they're talking about.

Only an idiot would come up with that as an argument.

Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 30, 2012, 03:10:20 PM
Quote
This article is meant to fix a few mistakes. They shouldn't have happened; we must acknowledge them, apologize for them and fix them.
Are you seriously that deluded by your hatred of everything Israeli, that you can't accept that he has admitted to not telling the truth?

The Sun is a British newspaper, so we must believe everything they write. After all, they are British and we aren't. They know what they're talking about.

Only an idiot would come up with that as an argument.
did you read the whole article?

"This deviation from the important issue, this incitement against the mistakes, was done deliberately. It was intended to obscure the truth revealed by the survey, which justifiably has garnered harsh responses around the world. It was the final means of propaganda available to those who seek to blur the true image of Israeli society and paint an unrealistic, imaginary portrait instead.

The most important thing was, and remains, that a significant portion of Israel's Jewish society advocates positions that can only be described as nationalistic and racist. Nearly half of the respondents don't want an Arab neighbor or an Arab student in their child's class; a third don't want Arabs to vote; nearly half want to discriminate against Arabs living in the country. Isn't that enough to scare anyone who fears for the future of this country?

But the right wing and its GAAboard mouthpieces aren't interested in any of that. "

And Ha'aretz is equivalent to the Sun, is that what you believe? 
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 30, 2012, 03:29:50 PM
BDB

As Levy says,


Bring us another reliable poll that proves Israeli society is not as racist and nationalistic as depicted in this survey.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 30, 2012, 04:40:27 PM





Ha’aretz’s Apartheid Campaign Against Israel

October 28, 2012


Cross posted by Yishai Goldflam at CAMERA  (This is a translated version of the original which appeared at CAMERA’s Hebrew site, Presspectiva.)
 
Amidst its financial hardships and declining Israeli readership, the Israeli daily, Ha’aretz, has upped its anti-Israel advocacy, engaging in a campaign to promote the apartheid canard about Israel. First, Akiva Eldar falsely alleged that the Israeli government had acknowledged Jews as the minority population residing between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, a claim he was forced to correct. Then Gideon Levy wrote an article bearing the sinister headline, “Survey: Most Israeli Jews support apartheid regime in Israel.”

The online versions in English and Hebrew were subsequently changed slightly. And the print edition’s English headline was “Survey: Most Israeli Jews advocate discrimination against Arabs.”  This story was followed the next day by an article that attempted to solidify as fact supposed Jewish support for an apartheid regime, with the headline, “Arab MKs: Israeli Jews’ support of apartheid is not surprising.”
 
Levy’s article claimed that according to a recent survey the majority of Israelis not only support apartheid, but also hold racist views towards Israeli Arabs and believe that apartheid already exists today in Israel. Predictably, the story spread like wildfire and was quoted in major media outlets such as London’s The Guardian and The Independent, Toronto’s Globe and Mail, Agence-France Presse, and dozens of other sites, blogs and forums.
 
Pro- and anti-Israel activists have spent the past two days debating the reliability of the survey, its wording and meaning, as well as the accuracy of Gideon Levy’s article publicizing the poll. But most of those involved in the debate did not see the complete, original survey because it was not published anywhere, including in Levy’s article. One notable exception was this in-depth analysis by Avi Mayer which relied upon the original poll. CAMERA/Presspectiva obtained a copy of the original survey, and compared it to Levy’s article and Ha’aretz’s headline to see whether or not they accurately reflected the survey.
 
Unsurprisingly, Levy’s article was full of omissions and distortions. He apparently ignored the data that did not suit him and emphasized those that were in accord with his own well-known anti-Israel world view. At times, he completely reversed the survey’s findings. The sensational headline represents, at best, Levy’s interpretation of the survey and does not represent objective, factual reporting.
 
It also appears that the survey itself has its own share of problems – including the lack of clarity and hypothetical nature of the questions, no definition of terms that were used, limited answer choices, no correction for confounding factors, and general lack of explanation about what exactly was meant by the questions.
 
Yet even on the assumption that the survey was a valid one that was appropriately conducted, the results neither justify Ha’aretz’s bombastic headlines, which seem to be part of a campaign to damage and delegitimize the Jewish state, nor the article itself that cherry-picks or otherwise misrepresents the results in order to reach the predetermined conclusion of the headline.
 
Levy Distorts
 
Levy’s striking misrepresentations included the following:
 

A sweeping 74 percent majority is in favor of separate roads for Israelis and Palestinians in the West Bank. A quarter – 24 percent – believe separate roads are “a good situation” and 50 percent believe they are “a necessary situation.”
 
Levy conveniently omitted the original question and answers from the survey. They were:
 

17. In the territories, there are some roads where travel is permitted only to Israelis and others where travel is permitted only to Palestinians. Which of the following opinions are closest to your own: A. It is a good situation. B. It is not a good situation, but what can you do? C. It is not a good situation and it needs to be stopped.
 
24% – it is a good situation.
 
50% – it is not a good situation, but there is nothing that can be done.
 
17% – it is not a good situation and it needs to be stopped
 
If the answers are divided according to those who see it as “good” and those who see it as “not good,” then 67% see it as a bad situation. But Levy did not bother to inform reader that the 50% of those who saw separate roads as “necessary” saw it as an undesirable situation.
 
When a “minority” becomes a “majority”
 
Levy devoted much of his fiery wrath to the alleged racism of Israeli Jews toward Israeli Arabs, but here too he distorted the results in order to make his case. Already in the third sentence of the article, he wrote:
 

A majority of Israeli Jews also explicitly favors discrimination against the state’s Arab citizens…
 
Levy misled his readers. There are five questions in the survey relating to discrimination against Arabs. Below are the questions and results:
 

4. In your opinion, is it desirable or undesirable for Jews to receive priority over Arabs in government hiring? a
 
59% – desirable; 34% undesirable
 
 
 
5. In your opinion, is it desirable to enact a law that prevents Israeli Arabs from voting in the Knesset?
 33% – desirable; 59% undesirable
 
 
 
7. Do you agree or disagree with the argument that the state needs to care more for its Jewish citizens than its Arab citizens?
 49% – agree; 49% – disagree
 
 
 
8. Would it bother you if in your place of abode, for example in your apartment building, an Arab family also lived there?
 42% – it would bother me; 53% – it would not bother me
 
 
 
9. Would it bother you if in one of your children’s classrooms at school, there were also Arab children?
 42% – it would bother me; 49% – it would not bother me
 
Does the overall picture obtained from these results support Levy’s characterization of most Israeli Jews favoring discrimination against Israeli-Arabs? On the contrary. Most people reading these results would perceive just the opposite, that a majority of Israelis do not support discrimination against Arabs.
 
Moreover, there are confounding factors here that skew the numbers, making the majority a smaller one than might be expected.  For example, the highest percentages of negative answers to the questions about Arab children sharing a class room with their children and Arab families living in the same apartment building came from the group that self-identified as ultra-Orthodox Jews. This community tends to insulate their families from the outside world and would be expected to just as readily answer that they would not want their children sharing a classroom with secular Jews, or that they would want all their neighbors to share their same values and strictures. This artificially confounds the data. Israeli society is certainly not perfect, but it is a far cry from Levy’s misrepresentation that most Israeli Jews openly and explicitly favor discrimination against Arabs.
 
Levy’s misrepresentation was even worse in the commentary accompanying the main article, where he wrote:
 

Most Israelis do not want Arab voters for the Knesset, nor Arab neighbors at home, nor Arab students near the bookcases of Jewish texts in Jewish schools that teach Jewish heritage. And our camp will be pure, as pure of Arabs as possible and perhaps even more.
 
What is amazing about the above paragraph is that Levy chose precisely the three examples that demonstrate the opposite of the scenario he describes. Unfortunately, readers horrified at the “findings” described by Levy do not possess the tools to see that the author was deceiving them, because the results of the survey were not included.
 
The issue of Levy’s selective reporting is evident throughout the article, in which he introduced the “negative” data without mentioning the “positive” data.
 
For example, when he wrote that “a third of the respondents support a law that would prevent Israeli Arabs from voting for the Knesset, ” he did not bother to mention that 59% oppose such a law.
 
Similarly, when Levy wrote that “36 percent support transferring some of the Arab towns from Israel to the PA, in exchange for keeping some of the West Bank settlements,” he did not bother to note that even more– 48% – oppose it. And when he wrote that “42 percent don’t want to live in the same building with Arabs and 42 percent don’t want their children in the same class with Arab children,” he did not bother to note that even more – 53% and 49% respectively – would not mind.
 
The headline in Ha’aretz’s print edition trumpeted that “Most Israeli Jews advocate discrimination against Arabs” – a conclusion clearly not borne out by the results of the survey. But this was evidently of no concern to editors who opted for a sensational headline that presented Israel in the worst possible light, no matter how false it was.
 
Support for Apartheid?
 
The subject of apartheid – the focus of Ha’aretz’s headline and on which Levy places his primary emphasis, as well as the charge that was disseminated around the world – takes up just 3 out of the 17 questions in the survey and is divided into two separate allegations by Levy:
 
a) the majority of Israelis support an apartheid regime; and
 
b) most Israelis think that Israel is already an apartheid state
 
Levy shares an honest point acknowledged by the pollsters that provides a key to understanding the problematic nature of the above allegations:
 

The survey conductors say perhaps the term “apartheid” was not clear enough to some interviewees.
 
Indeed, in the three questions dealing with the concept of apartheid, there is no definition or explanation of what is meant by the term “apartheid.” This raises the question of how the pollsters concluded, on the one hand, that the respondents “support apartheid” even while admitting that the term may not have been clear to the respondents. This logical failure would have raised a red flag to responsible journalists. That it did not give Levy reason to pause is testament to his lack of journalistic ethics.
 
Levy began the article by stating:
 

Most of the Jewish public in Israel supports the establishment of an apartheid regime in Israel if it formally annexes the West Bank.
 
It is an emphatic conclusion, but not what was asked in the survey. The only question addressing annexation of the territories was Question 16:
 

16. If Israel annexes the territories of Judea and Samaria, in your opinion, is it necessary to give 2.5 million Palestinians the right to vote in the Knesset?
 
While 69% of respondents answered no, the survey’s question addressed a hypothetical scenario that had no bearing on the current situation. Moreover, there were more interviewees who responded that they oppose annexation than those who responded that they support it (48% oppose, 38% support). In other words, almost half the respondents were forced to choose an answer about a hypothetical scenario that they explicitly oppose. Yet Ha’aretz’s online edition turned this finding into a headline without noting that it only described a hypothetical scenario that was already widely rejected by respondents. The online headline was subsequently changed to include the word “would” presumably to account for the hypothetical nature of the result: “Survey: Most Israeli Jews would support apartheid regime in Israel” but the damage wrought by the original headline had already been done, demonstrating the success of Ha’aretz’s apparent campaign to portray Israeli Jews as racists who support apartheid.
 
What about the claim that the majority of Israelis believe that an apartheid regime already exists in the country? Levy wrote:
 

Although the territories have not been annexed, most of the Jewish public (58 percent ) already believes Israel practices apartheid against Arabs.
 
This is what the survey says:
 

11. Which of the following opinions is closest to yours? A. There is no apartheid at all in Israel. B. There is apartheid in some areas. C. There is apartheid in many areas.
 
31% – There is no apartheid at all in Israel.
 
39% – There is apartheid in some areas.
 
19% – There is apartheid in many areas.
 
Beyond Levy’s ignoring of the survey’s nuance, with his blanket assertion that Israel “practices apartheid against Arabs,” are the problems inherent in the survey question itself – which Levy similarly ignores. What is “apartheid in some areas” or “apartheid in many areas”? The term “apartheid,” contrary to its superficial use in the survey, and contrary to the concept of “discrimination” has a very clear and precise meaning: According to the 2002 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, it refers to “an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.” (See more at “Israeli Apartheid Week“)
 
There is no such thing as “some” apartheid. There is either apartheid or no apartheid. Apartheid is not simply discrimination – the sort that exists in almost every country around the world including Israel, which is precisely why the term was created specifically to describe South Africa’s regime.
 
Anyone who understands the meaning of the word “apartheid” cannot reliably answer such an illogical question that seeks to reveal whether Israel practices apartheid “in some areas” or “in many areas.” Of even greater concern is the impact of Levy’s assertion “that 58% of Israeli citizens support apartheid” on those readers in London, New York, or Berlin who actually know what real apartheid is.
 
Despite the fact, that by any parameter, there is no connection between any Israeli policy and the South African apartheid regime, international activists are currently attempting to brand Israel with this smear in order to convince good and caring people that Israel is a second South Africa and should be treated as such – with boycott, divestment and sanctions. The Ha’aretz articles of the last few days indicate that the Israeli paper, too, seeks to demonize Israel as apartheid.
 
The fact that the survey question did not define “apartheid” or explain to respondents the difference between “apartheid” and “discrimination,” and the fact that the pollsters admitted that the term was not clear to all respondents suggests that respondents took the term “apartheid” to mean “discrimination” and understood it as simply a synonym for the latter. Moreover, the absurd response options of apartheid in “some” areas or in “many” areas also would suggest that the poll writers, intentionally or not, misled respondents into thinking that “apartheid” is interchangeable with “discrimination.” This is a plausible interpretation of the data that Levy chose to ignore.
 
It is difficult to overestimate the damage done to Israel by Ha’aretz’s sensational headlines and reporting. Instead of engaging in serious and balanced social criticism based on the findings of the survey, Ha’aretz chose instead to export Gideon Levy’s hysteria and obsession in the form of distorted headlines and an inaccurate story.
 
Ha’aretz’s campaign is transparent. Last week the paper falsely reported that the Israeli government admits to apartheid, this week it wrongly reported that the Israelis themselves admit to apartheid. Foreign journalists, ambassadors, diplomats, and policymakers around the world should take note. While Ha’aretz might have been perceived as a serious and reliable inside source of news about Israel, it is becoming increasingly clear that it nothing more than a tool for anti-Israel activists.


http://cifwatch.com/2012/10/ (http://cifwatch.com/2012/10/)
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 30, 2012, 05:06:15 PM
http://cifwatch.com/2012/10/30/what-the-guardian-wont-report-fatah-fb-page-posts-pic-of-mother-placing-suicide-belt-on-her-child/ (http://cifwatch.com/2012/10/30/what-the-guardian-wont-report-fatah-fb-page-posts-pic-of-mother-placing-suicide-belt-on-her-child/)

Isn't it amazing how palestinian kids are precious when they're killed by the big bad jews, but not when they are the ones being sent out to kill. Cannon fodder.


What the Guardian won’t report: Fatah FB page posts pic of mother placing suicide belt on her child

October 30, 2012 in Adam Levick


This is just grotesque.
 
Per Palestinian Media Watch:
 

The Facebook page for Fatah in Lebanon has posted this picture of a mother dressing her young son with a suicide belt.
 
This picture was posted on the Fatah Facebook page together with an imaginary conversation between the son who is being sent to his death and the mother encouraging it. “Why me and not you?” the child innocently asks his mother, who answers that she will continue to have more children “for the sake of Palestine”:
 


Here’s PMW’s translation of the Arabic next to the photo:


visitors can't see pics , please register or login

 

“My mother dressed me in a strange belt (i.e., a suicide belt).
 
I asked her: ‘What is this, mother?’
 
She said: ‘I will put it on you and you will go to your death!’
 
I said to her: ‘Mother, what have I done that you want me to die?’
 
She shed a tear that hurt my heart and said: ‘The homeland needs you, son. Go and blow up the sons of Zion.’
 
I said to her: ‘Why me and not you?’
 
She said: ‘I will stay in order to give birth to more children for the sake of Palestine.’
 
I kissed her hand and said to her: ‘Keep it up, mother, for you and for Palestine I will kill the impure and the damned.’”
 
PMW notes that the Facebook page states that it is “the official page of Fatah’s Information and Culture Commission in Lebanon,” and is linked to from the official site of the Fatah Information and Culture Commission (http://www.fatehmedia.ps).
 
Our series of posts titled ‘What the Guardian won’t report’ is inspired by our belief that what the Guardian doesn’t report is often as damaging to the public’s understanding of Israel and Israelis as what they do report. 
 
You simply can’t truly understand the complexities of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict without basic facts about the injurious impact of Palestinian incitement, terror and antisemitism.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 30, 2012, 05:16:27 PM
http://cifwatch.com/2012/10/30/what-the-guardian-wont-report-fatah-fb-page-posts-pic-of-mother-placing-suicide-belt-on-her-child/ (http://cifwatch.com/2012/10/30/what-the-guardian-wont-report-fatah-fb-page-posts-pic-of-mother-placing-suicide-belt-on-her-child/)

Isn't it amazing how palestinian kids are precious when they're killed by the big bad jews, but not when they are the ones being sent out to kill. Cannon fodder.


What the Guardian won’t report: Fatah FB page posts pic of mother placing suicide belt on her child

October 30, 2012 in Adam Levick


This is just grotesque.
 
Per Palestinian Media Watch:
 

The Facebook page for Fatah in Lebanon has posted this picture of a mother dressing her young son with a suicide belt.
 
This picture was posted on the Fatah Facebook page together with an imaginary conversation between the son who is being sent to his death and the mother encouraging it. “Why me and not you?” the child innocently asks his mother, who answers that she will continue to have more children “for the sake of Palestine”:
 


Here’s PMW’s translation of the Arabic next to the photo:


visitors can't see pics , please register or login

 

“My mother dressed me in a strange belt (i.e., a suicide belt).
 
I asked her: ‘What is this, mother?’
 
She said: ‘I will put it on you and you will go to your death!’
 
I said to her: ‘Mother, what have I done that you want me to die?’
 
She shed a tear that hurt my heart and said: ‘The homeland needs you, son. Go and blow up the sons of Zion.’
 
I said to her: ‘Why me and not you?’
 
She said: ‘I will stay in order to give birth to more children for the sake of Palestine.’
 
I kissed her hand and said to her: ‘Keep it up, mother, for you and for Palestine I will kill the impure and the damned.’”
 
PMW notes that the Facebook page states that it is “the official page of Fatah’s Information and Culture Commission in Lebanon,” and is linked to from the official site of the Fatah Information and Culture Commission (http://www.fatehmedia.ps).
 
Our series of posts titled ‘What the Guardian won’t report’ is inspired by our belief that what the Guardian doesn’t report is often as damaging to the public’s understanding of Israel and Israelis as what they do report. 
 
You simply can’t truly understand the complexities of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict without basic facts about the injurious impact of Palestinian incitement, terror and antisemitism.

When is the last time a Jew in Israel was killed by a suicide bomb, BDB ?

Israel is really desperate when it has people like you defending it. 
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 30, 2012, 05:17:57 PM





Ha’aretz’s Apartheid Campaign Against Israel

October 28, 2012


Cross posted by Yishai Goldflam at CAMERA  (This is a translated version of the original which appeared at CAMERA’s Hebrew site, Presspectiva.)
 
Amidst its financial hardships and declining Israeli readership, the Israeli daily, Ha’aretz, has upped its anti-Israel advocacy, engaging in a campaign to promote the apartheid canard about Israel. First, Akiva Eldar falsely alleged that the Israeli government had acknowledged Jews as the minority population residing between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, a claim he was forced to correct. Then Gideon Levy wrote an article bearing the sinister headline, “Survey: Most Israeli Jews support apartheid regime in Israel.”

The online versions in English and Hebrew were subsequently changed slightly. And the print edition’s English headline was “Survey: Most Israeli Jews advocate discrimination against Arabs.”  This story was followed the next day by an article that attempted to solidify as fact supposed Jewish support for an apartheid regime, with the headline, “Arab MKs: Israeli Jews’ support of apartheid is not surprising.”
 
Levy’s article claimed that according to a recent survey the majority of Israelis not only support apartheid, but also hold racist views towards Israeli Arabs and believe that apartheid already exists today in Israel. Predictably, the story spread like wildfire and was quoted in major media outlets such as London’s The Guardian and The Independent, Toronto’s Globe and Mail, Agence-France Presse, and dozens of other sites, blogs and forums.
 
Pro- and anti-Israel activists have spent the past two days debating the reliability of the survey, its wording and meaning, as well as the accuracy of Gideon Levy’s article publicizing the poll. But most of those involved in the debate did not see the complete, original survey because it was not published anywhere, including in Levy’s article. One notable exception was this in-depth analysis by Avi Mayer which relied upon the original poll. CAMERA/Presspectiva obtained a copy of the original survey, and compared it to Levy’s article and Ha’aretz’s headline to see whether or not they accurately reflected the survey.
 
Unsurprisingly, Levy’s article was full of omissions and distortions. He apparently ignored the data that did not suit him and emphasized those that were in accord with his own well-known anti-Israel world view. At times, he completely reversed the survey’s findings. The sensational headline represents, at best, Levy’s interpretation of the survey and does not represent objective, factual reporting.
 
It also appears that the survey itself has its own share of problems – including the lack of clarity and hypothetical nature of the questions, no definition of terms that were used, limited answer choices, no correction for confounding factors, and general lack of explanation about what exactly was meant by the questions.
 
Yet even on the assumption that the survey was a valid one that was appropriately conducted, the results neither justify Ha’aretz’s bombastic headlines, which seem to be part of a campaign to damage and delegitimize the Jewish state, nor the article itself that cherry-picks or otherwise misrepresents the results in order to reach the predetermined conclusion of the headline.
 
Levy Distorts
 
Levy’s striking misrepresentations included the following:
 

A sweeping 74 percent majority is in favor of separate roads for Israelis and Palestinians in the West Bank. A quarter – 24 percent – believe separate roads are “a good situation” and 50 percent believe they are “a necessary situation.”
 
Levy conveniently omitted the original question and answers from the survey. They were:
 

17. In the territories, there are some roads where travel is permitted only to Israelis and others where travel is permitted only to Palestinians. Which of the following opinions are closest to your own: A. It is a good situation. B. It is not a good situation, but what can you do? C. It is not a good situation and it needs to be stopped.
 
24% – it is a good situation.
 
50% – it is not a good situation, but there is nothing that can be done.
 
17% – it is not a good situation and it needs to be stopped
 
If the answers are divided according to those who see it as “good” and those who see it as “not good,” then 67% see it as a bad situation. But Levy did not bother to inform reader that the 50% of those who saw separate roads as “necessary” saw it as an undesirable situation.
 
When a “minority” becomes a “majority”
 
Levy devoted much of his fiery wrath to the alleged racism of Israeli Jews toward Israeli Arabs, but here too he distorted the results in order to make his case. Already in the third sentence of the article, he wrote:
 

A majority of Israeli Jews also explicitly favors discrimination against the state’s Arab citizens…
 
Levy misled his readers. There are five questions in the survey relating to discrimination against Arabs. Below are the questions and results:
 

4. In your opinion, is it desirable or undesirable for Jews to receive priority over Arabs in government hiring? a
 
59% – desirable; 34% undesirable
 
 
 
5. In your opinion, is it desirable to enact a law that prevents Israeli Arabs from voting in the Knesset?
 33% – desirable; 59% undesirable
 
 
 
7. Do you agree or disagree with the argument that the state needs to care more for its Jewish citizens than its Arab citizens?
 49% – agree; 49% – disagree
 
 
 
8. Would it bother you if in your place of abode, for example in your apartment building, an Arab family also lived there?
 42% – it would bother me; 53% – it would not bother me
 
 
 
9. Would it bother you if in one of your children’s classrooms at school, there were also Arab children?
 42% – it would bother me; 49% – it would not bother me
 
Does the overall picture obtained from these results support Levy’s characterization of most Israeli Jews favoring discrimination against Israeli-Arabs? On the contrary. Most people reading these results would perceive just the opposite, that a majority of Israelis do not support discrimination against Arabs.
 
Moreover, there are confounding factors here that skew the numbers, making the majority a smaller one than might be expected.  For example, the highest percentages of negative answers to the questions about Arab children sharing a class room with their children and Arab families living in the same apartment building came from the group that self-identified as ultra-Orthodox Jews. This community tends to insulate their families from the outside world and would be expected to just as readily answer that they would not want their children sharing a classroom with secular Jews, or that they would want all their neighbors to share their same values and strictures. This artificially confounds the data. Israeli society is certainly not perfect, but it is a far cry from Levy’s misrepresentation that most Israeli Jews openly and explicitly favor discrimination against Arabs.
 
Levy’s misrepresentation was even worse in the commentary accompanying the main article, where he wrote:
 

Most Israelis do not want Arab voters for the Knesset, nor Arab neighbors at home, nor Arab students near the bookcases of Jewish texts in Jewish schools that teach Jewish heritage. And our camp will be pure, as pure of Arabs as possible and perhaps even more.
 
What is amazing about the above paragraph is that Levy chose precisely the three examples that demonstrate the opposite of the scenario he describes. Unfortunately, readers horrified at the “findings” described by Levy do not possess the tools to see that the author was deceiving them, because the results of the survey were not included.
 
The issue of Levy’s selective reporting is evident throughout the article, in which he introduced the “negative” data without mentioning the “positive” data.
 
For example, when he wrote that “a third of the respondents support a law that would prevent Israeli Arabs from voting for the Knesset, ” he did not bother to mention that 59% oppose such a law.
 
Similarly, when Levy wrote that “36 percent support transferring some of the Arab towns from Israel to the PA, in exchange for keeping some of the West Bank settlements,” he did not bother to note that even more– 48% – oppose it. And when he wrote that “42 percent don’t want to live in the same building with Arabs and 42 percent don’t want their children in the same class with Arab children,” he did not bother to note that even more – 53% and 49% respectively – would not mind.
 
The headline in Ha’aretz’s print edition trumpeted that “Most Israeli Jews advocate discrimination against Arabs” – a conclusion clearly not borne out by the results of the survey. But this was evidently of no concern to editors who opted for a sensational headline that presented Israel in the worst possible light, no matter how false it was.
 
Support for Apartheid?
 
The subject of apartheid – the focus of Ha’aretz’s headline and on which Levy places his primary emphasis, as well as the charge that was disseminated around the world – takes up just 3 out of the 17 questions in the survey and is divided into two separate allegations by Levy:
 
a) the majority of Israelis support an apartheid regime; and
 
b) most Israelis think that Israel is already an apartheid state
 
Levy shares an honest point acknowledged by the pollsters that provides a key to understanding the problematic nature of the above allegations:
 

The survey conductors say perhaps the term “apartheid” was not clear enough to some interviewees.
 
Indeed, in the three questions dealing with the concept of apartheid, there is no definition or explanation of what is meant by the term “apartheid.” This raises the question of how the pollsters concluded, on the one hand, that the respondents “support apartheid” even while admitting that the term may not have been clear to the respondents. This logical failure would have raised a red flag to responsible journalists. That it did not give Levy reason to pause is testament to his lack of journalistic ethics.
 
Levy began the article by stating:
 

Most of the Jewish public in Israel supports the establishment of an apartheid regime in Israel if it formally annexes the West Bank.
 
It is an emphatic conclusion, but not what was asked in the survey. The only question addressing annexation of the territories was Question 16:
 

16. If Israel annexes the territories of Judea and Samaria, in your opinion, is it necessary to give 2.5 million Palestinians the right to vote in the Knesset?
 
While 69% of respondents answered no, the survey’s question addressed a hypothetical scenario that had no bearing on the current situation. Moreover, there were more interviewees who responded that they oppose annexation than those who responded that they support it (48% oppose, 38% support). In other words, almost half the respondents were forced to choose an answer about a hypothetical scenario that they explicitly oppose. Yet Ha’aretz’s online edition turned this finding into a headline without noting that it only described a hypothetical scenario that was already widely rejected by respondents. The online headline was subsequently changed to include the word “would” presumably to account for the hypothetical nature of the result: “Survey: Most Israeli Jews would support apartheid regime in Israel” but the damage wrought by the original headline had already been done, demonstrating the success of Ha’aretz’s apparent campaign to portray Israeli Jews as racists who support apartheid.
 
What about the claim that the majority of Israelis believe that an apartheid regime already exists in the country? Levy wrote:
 

Although the territories have not been annexed, most of the Jewish public (58 percent ) already believes Israel practices apartheid against Arabs.
 
This is what the survey says:
 

11. Which of the following opinions is closest to yours? A. There is no apartheid at all in Israel. B. There is apartheid in some areas. C. There is apartheid in many areas.
 
31% – There is no apartheid at all in Israel.
 
39% – There is apartheid in some areas.
 
19% – There is apartheid in many areas.
 
Beyond Levy’s ignoring of the survey’s nuance, with his blanket assertion that Israel “practices apartheid against Arabs,” are the problems inherent in the survey question itself – which Levy similarly ignores. What is “apartheid in some areas” or “apartheid in many areas”? The term “apartheid,” contrary to its superficial use in the survey, and contrary to the concept of “discrimination” has a very clear and precise meaning: According to the 2002 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, it refers to “an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.” (See more at “Israeli Apartheid Week“)
 
There is no such thing as “some” apartheid. There is either apartheid or no apartheid. Apartheid is not simply discrimination – the sort that exists in almost every country around the world including Israel, which is precisely why the term was created specifically to describe South Africa’s regime.
 
Anyone who understands the meaning of the word “apartheid” cannot reliably answer such an illogical question that seeks to reveal whether Israel practices apartheid “in some areas” or “in many areas.” Of even greater concern is the impact of Levy’s assertion “that 58% of Israeli citizens support apartheid” on those readers in London, New York, or Berlin who actually know what real apartheid is.
 
Despite the fact, that by any parameter, there is no connection between any Israeli policy and the South African apartheid regime, international activists are currently attempting to brand Israel with this smear in order to convince good and caring people that Israel is a second South Africa and should be treated as such – with boycott, divestment and sanctions. The Ha’aretz articles of the last few days indicate that the Israeli paper, too, seeks to demonize Israel as apartheid.
 
The fact that the survey question did not define “apartheid” or explain to respondents the difference between “apartheid” and “discrimination,” and the fact that the pollsters admitted that the term was not clear to all respondents suggests that respondents took the term “apartheid” to mean “discrimination” and understood it as simply a synonym for the latter. Moreover, the absurd response options of apartheid in “some” areas or in “many” areas also would suggest that the poll writers, intentionally or not, misled respondents into thinking that “apartheid” is interchangeable with “discrimination.” This is a plausible interpretation of the data that Levy chose to ignore.
 
It is difficult to overestimate the damage done to Israel by Ha’aretz’s sensational headlines and reporting. Instead of engaging in serious and balanced social criticism based on the findings of the survey, Ha’aretz chose instead to export Gideon Levy’s hysteria and obsession in the form of distorted headlines and an inaccurate story.
 
Ha’aretz’s campaign is transparent. Last week the paper falsely reported that the Israeli government admits to apartheid, this week it wrongly reported that the Israelis themselves admit to apartheid. Foreign journalists, ambassadors, diplomats, and policymakers around the world should take note. While Ha’aretz might have been perceived as a serious and reliable inside source of news about Israel, it is becoming increasingly clear that it nothing more than a tool for anti-Israel activists.


http://cifwatch.com/2012/10/ (http://cifwatch.com/2012/10/)
Message to CAMERA- when you are explaining, you are losing.

Why are Israeli Jews so touchy about apartheid anyway ? Isn't Erez Israel Jewish land? Wasn't it given to them by GOD?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 30, 2012, 05:20:58 PM
Wouldn't you be touchy if someone were to accuse Irish Catholics of apartheid? I would be.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 30, 2012, 05:46:42 PM
Wouldn't you be touchy if someone were to accuse Irish Catholics of apartheid? I would be.
I am not aware of any grounds for the accusation of apartheid in Ireland. As far as I know nobody is denied the right to vote or the right to water or the right to drive on the roads as is the case under Israeli occupation.
Israeli Jews are proud of their special rights- if they are ashamed of apartheid they are hypocrites.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 30, 2012, 05:51:05 PM
Quote
When is the last time a Jew in Israel was killed by a suicide bomb, BDB ?

There's a great big wall that has a lot to do with that. 


When was the last time an Irish child was murdered by a British soldier? The two are exactly the same. Murder of innocent civilians is murder of innocent civilians. You hypocrite.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 30, 2012, 07:33:25 PM
Quote
When is the last time a Jew in Israel was killed by a suicide bomb, BDB ?

There's a great big wall that has a lot to do with that. 


When was the last time an Irish child was murdered by a British soldier? The two are exactly the same. Murder of innocent civilians is murder of innocent civilians. You hypocrite.
Israel is fucked, BdB. Especially considering the sub intellect required to find what you post as supportive. Your side treats humans like vermin and is shit scared of the ordinary joes of the world seiing israeli apartheid for the moral sludge it is. I think your links to memri and camera say more between the lines than you understand- Israel has already lost the information war and zionist jews are really concerned they are going to lose the goys. Calling people antismites won't save herzlcs dream. This is the real world and nobody owes israel anything.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Hardy on October 30, 2012, 07:59:19 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 30, 2012, 08:12:13 PM
Quote
When is the last time a Jew in Israel was killed by a suicide bomb, BDB ?

There's a great big wall that has a lot to do with that. 


When was the last time an Irish child was murdered by a British soldier? The two are exactly the same. Murder of innocent civilians is murder of innocent civilians. You hypocrite.
Israel is fucked, BdB. Especially considering the sub intellect required to find what you post as supportive. Your side treats humans like vermin and is shit scared of the ordinary joes of the world seiing israeli apartheid for the moral sludge it is. I think your links to memri and camera say more between the lines than you understand- Israel has already lost the information war and zionist jews are really concerned they are going to lose the goys. Calling people antismites won't save herzlcs dream. This is the real world and nobody owes israel anything.

I take it your medication has kicked in.  :o
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 30, 2012, 08:56:39 PM
Quote
When is the last time a Jew in Israel was killed by a suicide bomb, BDB ?

There's a great big wall that has a lot to do with that. 


When was the last time an Irish child was murdered by a British soldier? The two are exactly the same. Murder of innocent civilians is murder of innocent civilians. You hypocrite.
Israel is fucked, BdB. Especially considering the sub intellect required to find what you post as supportive. Your side treats humans like vermin and is shit scared of the ordinary joes of the world seiing israeli apartheid for the moral sludge it is. I think your links to memri and camera say more between the lines than you understand- Israel has already lost the information war and zionist jews are really concerned they are going to lose the goys. Calling people antismites won't save herzlcs dream. This is the real world and nobody owes israel anything.

I take it your medication has kicked in.  :o
You know, in the 1950s  supporters of Israel used to talk about culture and progress and now they deny apartheid and dehumanise Palestinians. It has been some fall really. 
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 30, 2012, 09:02:57 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

the board is very quiet now, isn't it, with the all Ireland over and Banty gone
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Mike Sheehy on October 31, 2012, 12:07:49 AM
Quote
When is the last time a Jew in Israel was killed by a suicide bomb, BDB ?

There's a great big wall that has a lot to do with that. 


When was the last time an Irish child was murdered by a British soldier? The two are exactly the same. Murder of innocent civilians is murder of innocent civilians. You hypocrite.
Israel is fucked, BdB. Especially considering the sub intellect required to find what you post as supportive. Your side treats humans like vermin and is shit scared of the ordinary joes of the world seiing israeli apartheid for the moral sludge it is. I think your links to memri and camera say more between the lines than you understand- Israel has already lost the information war and zionist jews are really concerned they are going to lose the goys. Calling people antismites won't save herzlcs dream. This is the real world and nobody owes israel anything.

I take it your medication has kicked in.  :o

You are wasting your time talking to this boozed up anti-semite.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 31, 2012, 08:27:16 AM
Hilarious stuff lads. Bring in alcoholism and homosexuality.

Are they supposed to be insults? And isn't it great PR for the board as well?

It was a technique which the Zionists were to employ throughout their struggle. The technique of promoting damaging personal attacks on those who stood in their way rather than trying to counter their arguments."
"Such non conformists were subtly made aware that their jobs might be at risk, their books unpublishable, their preferment out of the question, their public reputations vulnerable if they did not renounce the heresy of anti Zionism "
Publish it not, Mayhew and Adams, 1975
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 31, 2012, 02:25:34 PM
If you don't like what is posted, then gurn yer lamps out to the mods. Look down to the right. See where it says "Report to moderater", fill yer boots.

The one thing I will never do on this thread, is report anyone for anything they post. If you're big enough to dish it out, then expect to get it right back at ya.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 31, 2012, 02:25:58 PM
So called Land Grabs

 
We read in the international press the complaints against Israel for demolishing Arab homes, but little
background or context is ever given.

First, according to international treaties, in Judea and Samaria, the land is divided in areas "A", "B" and C". Let's just read for a moment what these area actually are.

Definition of Land Areas

Area 'A': Full Palestinian control; mainly urban areas (cities and towns)
     17.2% of total area, 55% of Palestinian population

Area 'B': Palestinian civil and Israeli security control; mainly populated rural areas
    23.8% of area, 41% of the population

Area 'C': Full Israeli control; communities, community access roads, buffer zones (near communities, roads,
strategic areas and Israel) and almost all of the Jordan Valley 
    59% of area, 4% of population

Ownership of the Land in Judea and Samaria

There are 4 types of ownership:

•State lands--35%
•Privately own Jewish land--5%
•Privately owned Arab lands--30%
•Undefined ownership--30%

Basically, the communities in Judea and Samaria have been established ONLY on State lands or privately owned
Jewish land.

However, the Palestinians are being encouraged by their leaders to move into area "C", albeit illegally. and then claim ownership.

This is a land grab, pure and simple.

The international media has accepted the Palestinian narrative about land ownership, but ignored the fact that in many cases this "ownership" is actually the occupation of land that does not belong to them and into which, even according to international law, they have come illegally.


http://www.cohav.org/land-grabs.html (http://www.cohav.org/land-grabs.html)


Never mind the source boys, is it true, or is it not?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: dec on October 31, 2012, 02:29:24 PM
State lands--35%

How did the Israeli state come to own 35% of the West Bank/Judea and Samaria?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 31, 2012, 02:38:18 PM
Irish ties to Israel hurt by NGO funding

By ALEX RYVCHIN

10/17/2012 22:34

The Irish government is either oblivious to Trócaire’s extensive anti-peace activities, or knowingly carrying on a long tradition of anti-Israel bias.
Photo: Reuters
 This week, officials from Ireland are traveling to Israel for high-level talks. At the top of the agenda should be the damaging policies conducted by Trócaire, one of the major recipients of Irish taxpayer largesse.

Founded by the Bishops of Ireland, Trócaire is the official overseas development agency of the Catholic Church in Ireland and a major recipient of funds from Irish Aid with an annual budget of some ¤56 million.

In contrast to the humanitarian label, Trócaire is also a major contributor to and unwitting participant in the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.

Amid the organization’s materials showing impoverished African children and grateful aid recipients from the third world are political attacks in the form of calls to boycott Israeli products from the West Bank. In a recent op-ed in the Irish Times, Trócaire’s executive director, Justin Kilcullen, urged Ireland to adopt a total ban on “illegal settlement goods” and to “push European counterparts for similar action.”

Beyond the central moral issue raised by an aid organization interceding politically in a complex and multifaceted conflict, Trócaire’s role as a key enabler of anti-Israel campaigns raises important questions. If boycotts are a legitimate means of influencing the policies of foreign governments, why is there no call to boycott Syria following the deaths of tens of thousands of people in Assad’s bloody war against his own people? And why is there no Trocaire-led boycott of China, or of many other countries plagued by violent attacks and terrorism. In fact, why is Israel the only country that Trócaire targets in the entire Middle East?

The answer may have something to do with the fact that Trócaire’s “Occupied Palestinian Territories/Israel Programme Officer,” Garry Walsh, was previously employed as the National Coordinator for Ireland Palestinian Solidarity Campaign – an openly partisan and biased organization far removed from any humanitarian objectives. The appointment of Walsh to lead the campaign against Israel has completed Trócaire’s transformation from a legitimate aid organization to anti-Israel lobbyist, and has led to the loss of all credibility and influence to comment on the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Trócaire’s track record illustrates the growing influence of bias and politics, at the expense of assisting people in need. For example, in 2007, Trócaire joined Badil (a militant anti-Israel NGO) in a “Call to Action,” to advance boycotts divestment and sanctions (BDS) against Israel and invoking offensive rhetoric aimed at the Jewish community. Trócaire is also involved in campaigns to commemorate the Palestinian “nakba” (meaning catastrophe, and referring to the failure of the Arab side in the war of 1948) reinforcing the image of Palestinian victimhood resulting from Israeli independence.

Trócaire’s executive director, Justin Kilcullen, produced a highly distorted report on Gaza which falsely blames Israel alone for the conflict, erasing Hamas mass terror.

Apparently, the Irish government is either oblivious to Trócaire’s extensive anti-peace activities, or the current government is knowingly carrying on a long tradition of Irish anti-Israel bias. In the past financial year, the group received ¤18.5 million from Irish Aid, the government’s assistance program for developing countries, all at the expense of the Irish taxpayer.

SADLY, TRÓCAIRE is but one example of Irish government funding for an NGO whose damaging political agenda is hidden in the language of human rights. Irish Aid also supports Al-Haq, which calls itself a “human rights organization,” yet a closer look at the group reveals another goal: targeting Israel in the political war. The group has suggested “flooding the Israeli Supreme Court with petitions in the hope of obstructing its functioning and resources.” It commences spurious legal proceedings in foreign courts attacking freely elected Israeli politicians, and has even sought to manipulate the UK judicial system to sabotage economic ties between Britain and Israel.

Like Trócaire, the motives of the group are betrayed by its leadership. Al-Haq is headed by Shawan Jabarin, one of the alleged “senior activists of the Popular Front terrorist organization” according to the Israeli High Court. And like Trócaire, the group receives substantial support courtesy of the Irish taxpayer. In 2009 alone, Al Haq received $186,689 from Irish Aid.

An Irish taxpayer might well ask why on earth their government has seen fit to fund “humanitarian” organizations headed by radical ideologues and alleged members of terror groups.

What is even more perplexing is that in funding groups such as Trócaire and Al-Haq, the Irish government is supporting organizations which completely undermine its very own policies.

Officially, the Irish government has rejected the unconscionable movement of boycotts, divestment and sanctions against Israel. Yet Irish Aid continues to give money to groups that actively campaign for BDS – a strategy that politicizes human rights, adds fuel to the conflict and, to be clear, seeks nothing less than the ultimate destruction of Israel.

One leading boycott activist – Ahmed Moor – revealed the true aims of the movement, when he declared: “Boycotts, divestment and sanctions does mean the end of the Jewish state.... Ending the occupation doesn’t mean anything if it doesn’t mean ending the Jewish state itself.”

So on the one hand, the Irish government says that it advocates a peaceful settlement of the Arab-Israeli conflict and the realization of a two-state solution. Yet at the same time, it provides large funds to organizations involved in a campaign which seeks the destruction of a democratic, sovereign state.

The Irish government supports a negotiated settlement between Israel and the Palestinians. This is how lasting peace will be achieved. This is how Israel will realize its dream of peaceful co-existence with its neighbors, and Palestinians can achieve statehood.

In contrast, as the examples of Trócaire and Irish Aid funding for Al Haq illustrate, the abuse of public funds for destructive and discriminatory activities shows the need for a systematic and independent review of these important issues.



http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=288273 (http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=288273)

Don't bother shaking your box at me again.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 31, 2012, 02:51:14 PM
If you don't like what is posted, then gurn yer lamps out to the mods. Look down to the right. See where it says "Report to moderater", fill yer boots.

The one thing I will never do on this thread, is report anyone for anything they post. If you're big enough to dish it out, then expect to get it right back at ya.

Homophobia is not manly.
If you have a point you should be able to make it without slurring the gay community.

Surely Israel can do better than you. 
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 31, 2012, 02:52:25 PM
So called Land Grabs

 
We read in the international press the complaints against Israel for demolishing Arab homes, but little
background or context is ever given.

First, according to international treaties, in Judea and Samaria, the land is divided in areas "A", "B" and C". Let's just read for a moment what these area actually are.

Definition of Land Areas

Area 'A': Full Palestinian control; mainly urban areas (cities and towns)
     17.2% of total area, 55% of Palestinian population

Area 'B': Palestinian civil and Israeli security control; mainly populated rural areas
    23.8% of area, 41% of the population

Area 'C': Full Israeli control; communities, community access roads, buffer zones (near communities, roads,
strategic areas and Israel) and almost all of the Jordan Valley 
    59% of area, 4% of population

Ownership of the Land in Judea and Samaria

There are 4 types of ownership:

•State lands--35%
•Privately own Jewish land--5%
•Privately owned Arab lands--30%
•Undefined ownership--30%

Basically, the communities in Judea and Samaria have been established ONLY on State lands or privately owned
Jewish land.

However, the Palestinians are being encouraged by their leaders to move into area "C", albeit illegally. and then claim ownership.

This is a land grab, pure and simple.

The international media has accepted the Palestinian narrative about land ownership, but ignored the fact that in many cases this "ownership" is actually the occupation of land that does not belong to them and into which, even according to international law, they have come illegally.


http://www.cohav.org/land-grabs.html (http://www.cohav.org/land-grabs.html)


Never mind the source boys, is it true, or is it not?
How can Israel own state land in the West Bank? 
Is the West Bank part of Israel? Yes or no ?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 31, 2012, 03:53:28 PM
How the Occupation Became Legal
Eyal Press


http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/jan/25/how-occupation-became-legal/


This is the second in an NYRblog series about the fate of democracy in different parts of the world.
 
Shark de Mayo/thelawfilm.com
Justice Meir Shamgar

In 1979, a group of Palestinian farmers filed a petition with Israel’s High Court of Justice, claiming their land was being illegally expropriated by Jewish settlers. The farmers were not Israeli citizens, and the settlers appeared to have acted with the state’s support; indeed, army helicopters had escorted them to the land—a hilltop near Nablus—bringing along generators and water tanks. The High Court of Justice nevertheless ordered the outpost dismantled. “The decision of the court… proved that ‘there was justice’ in Jerusalem and that Israel was indeed ruled by Law,” exulted one Israeli columnist.

But the frustration of the settlers did not last very long. As revealed in The Law in These Parts, an engrossing new Israeli
documentary making its American debut at the Sundance Film Festival, just hours after the ruling was handed down, Ariel Sharon, a keen supporter of the settlement project who was then Israel’s Minister of Agriculture, organized a meeting to discuss how to circumvent it. Alexander Ramati, then a legal advisor to the West Bank military command, raised his hand to tell Sharon about an Ottoman concept known as “Mawat land.” The Ottomans, who had controlled Palestine until World War I, had used the term to designate land far enough from any neighboring village that a crowing rooster perched on its edge could not be heard. Under Ottoman law, if such land was not cultivated for three years it was “mawat”—dead —and reverted to the empire. “With or without your rooster, be at my office at 8:00 in the morning,” Sharon told Ramati, who was soon crisscrossing the West Bank in the cockpit of a helicopter, identifying tens of thousands of uninhabited acres that could be labeled “state land” and made available to settlers, notwithstanding the Geneva Convention’s prohibition on moving civilians into occupied territory.

In the years that followed, a string of new settlements was built on this territory, eventually prompting another challenge before the Israeli High Court. This time, the Court denied the challenge, ruling that settlement construction was permissible while Israel served as the temporary custodian of the territory. This provided a legal basis for land expropriation that has since enabled hundreds of thousands of Israelis to relocate to the West Bank.

Surprisingly little is known about the legal apparatus that has enabled and structured the occupation. Filmed in nine days but based on years of archival research, The Law in These Parts aims to expose it. Even before the 1967 Six-Day War, the film reveals, officers in the army’s legal corps drew up guidelines for a separate system of laws that could be applied to territory under IDF control, rules they were convinced could strike a balance between order and justice. But by the time the first

Palestinian Intifada erupted in 1987, detention without trial and convictions based on secret evidence had become standard operating procedure in the military courts entrusted with this task. One reason Israel did not simply extend its own laws to the West Bank and Gaza Strip was that doing so would “imply certain things you may not want,” an official in the film explains – in particular, that Palestinians living in the occupied territories were citizens with the same rights as Israelis. (In contrast, Jewish settlers in places like Hebron were spared the military justice system and granted access to civilian courts in Israel.) Director Ra’anan Alexandrowicz, an Israeli known for his meticulously researched documentaries, initially planned to make these Palestinians the film’s protagonists. Instead, the documentary focuses on the handful of Israeli legal officials who, working largely in the shadows, set the ground rules for an occupation now in its forty-fifth year.

The architects of this parallel justice system believed that what they were designing was enlightened and progressive, a sentiment some viewers of the film may initially be inclined to share. At the insistence of Meir Shamgar, an elderly man with an august bearing who served as Israel’s Military Advocate General from 1963 to 1968, it was agreed soon after the Six-Day War that Palestinians could appeal cases to Israel’s High Court of Justice. Shamgar, who later served as the High Court’s president, notes that international law did not require Israel to grant Palestinians such access and expresses considerable pride in this. “I hope other countries will emulate the practice,” he says.
 

Like all the people interviewed in the film, Shamgar is seated in a black leather chair set behind a desk that is mounted on a stage, an arrangement that makes it easy to imagine him in court, with the gavel – and the power to mete out judgment – in his hands. In the film, of course, this power actually rests with Alexandrowicz, a deft interviewer who patiently draws out his subjects but is not shy about airing his opinions – as, for example, after an exchange with Shamgar about a High Court case in which a Palestinian living near Hebron challenged the expropriation of so-called “state land.” It was Shamgar who presided over the case and who ruled that while international law barred Israel from assuming ownership of the territory, building temporary outposts was permissible. Half-a-million Israelis now live in these “temporary” settlements, notes Alexandrowicz. “Look, I don’t think this is connected to Supreme Court rulings,” says Shamgar, attributing what happened to politics. But Alexandrowicz points out that international law “clearly forbids transferring population from the occupying state to the occupied area.” He asks Shamgar, “Why didn’t the court see this as something it needed to stand up against?” Shamgar glances to the side, a trace of exasperation ruffling his face. “That is a question after the fact,” he says.

“Justice Shamgar doesn’t see the connection between Supreme Court rulings and our settlements in the occupied territories,” Alexandrowicz then says in a voiceover. “But I, the person documenting, see a connection, and I present the rulings and events as I understand them. Because in the world of the film, I rule on what reality is.” As the statement suggests, The Law in These Parts makes no claim to being objective: as the narrative unfolds, it becomes increasingly apparent that the film is putting its subjects on trial before the audience. In another scene, Alexandrowicz interviews a former military judge about a case involving a Palestinian arrested without being told what he’d done wrong. To protect Israel’s sources in the territories, Palestinians often could be shown only a “paraphrase” of the charges against them, the judge explains. And what if the security forces made unreliable accusations? “As a rule, I didn’t doubt what they said,” says the judge. This revealing admission was extracted from an interview that lasted more than three hours. “The viewer is only hearing a ‘paraphrase’ of my interview,” says Alexandrowicz. Here as elsewhere, he slyly anticipates (and thus potentially defuses) the charge that his view is biased, while implicitly raising the same question about the supposedly neutral officials who held sway in courtrooms where the disparity in power, and the absence of objectivity, was far more glaring.

Alexandrowicz’s unsparing inquiry is targeted at Israelis and foreign observers, who trumpet the achievements of Israel’s democracy and the High Court’s willingness to restrain abuses even at the occasional expense of security. The Law in These Parts does not deny that the High Court has successfully put a stop to some abuses in the territories—most notably in a 1999 ruling that barred various methods of physical interrogation (shaking, hooding, and shackling detainees) practiced for years with impunity. Like the 1979 decision on settlements, it infuriated some Israelis on the right, particularly since it came a few years after a wave of suicide bombings. On other occasions, the High Court has issued rulings—requiring, for example, that Israel re-route its security barrier to expropriate less Palestinian land—that the army has refused to enforce. But the film disquietingly suggests that these occasional displays of independence may only serve to foster the illusion of justice even as separate laws for settlers, house demolitions, restrictions on free movement and a host of other unjust policies obtained “a legal seal of approval,” as Ilan Katz, who served as Deputy Military Advocate General from 2000 to 2003, puts it in the film. The Knesset could easily have passed a law barring Palestinians from petitioning the High Court, notes Katz. Why didn’t it? “Because many times the Supreme Court is convenient for the security forces,” he says.

The Law in These Parts appeared in Israel during a period in which many of the organs of an independent civil society – including the civil court system – have been under attack. The repressive climate may explain why the film has generated enormous interest in Israel, screening in more than 100 locations and receiving the prize for best documentary at the 2011 Jerusalem Film Festival. Of course, the warm reception also underscores a paradox: while many Israelis seem open and even sympathetic to critical examinations of the occupation, no political constituency has emerged to challenge the creeping colonization of East Jerusalem and the West Bank, which has continued to advance under the Netanyahu government. The film’s subjects have been more sparing with their praise – with one notable exception, a former military judge named Jonathan Livny who has attended some screenings and spoken admiringly about it. At one point in the film, Livny is openly critical of the military courts: “As a military judge, you don’t just represent justice,” he says. “You represent the authorities of the occupation, vis-à-vis a population that sees you as the enemy… It’s an unnatural situation. As long as it’s only temporary, fine. But when it goes on for 40 years? How can the system function? How can it be just?”

It is the closest any of the film’s subjects come to admitting to a troubled conscience, and it made me wonder whether the experience of being cross-examined in the studio had forced Livny to grapple with the compromises he’d made. “Yes,” he told me when I reached him recently by phone, “it’s become an educational moment in my life. It enabled me to sit for three hours and really look inwardly and go through a process of understanding and come to grips, through the questioning, with my emotions, my feelings, with trying to understand the role I played.” I asked him if he ever looked back and thought he should have followed the lead of the hundreds of Israeli soldiers who refused to serve in the occupied territories. “Never,” he said. “Because I realized that if I wouldn’t do it and somebody else would be in my place, that person would not even have the qualms that I showed.” Many of his colleagues viewed the settlements favorably, he told me. Some even lived in them. Few understood Arabic, which he spoke fluently.
 Still, he said, he regarded the system in which he’d served as a place where cultivating respect for the rule of law was impossible. “It is a kangaroo court.”

We spoke in early January, a week after Israel’s High Court ruled on a petition challenging the right of Israeli companies to mine in eight quarries situated across the Green Line. The materials are sold overwhelmingly to Israelis —“looting the West Bank,” in the words of Dror Etkes, a researcher formerly with the organization Yesh Din, which submitted the complaint—in seemingly clear violation of a provision of the Hague Convention requiring an occupying power to serve only as the “administrator” of such resources. The High Court rejected the challenge, ruling that the occupation has gone on for so long that the situation has acquired certain “unique characteristics.” About this, at least, Ra’anan Alexandrowicz might agree.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 31, 2012, 05:42:09 PM
Back to the future

Radio RSA: The Voice of South Africa
In 1988, Wasburn’s students analyzed five weeks of nightly radio broadcasts from Radio RSA (“The Voice of South Africa”), the South African government’s international radio service, which sought to improve world opinion of the apartheid regime.
Fanus Venter, then head of Radio RSA, referred to its mission as “the ultimate public relations challenge.”

According to Venter, the main objective of the station is to foster understanding of South Africa’s unique situation in the world and to counteract the untruths and the halftruths about the nation which has been spread worldwide. To this end, the [South African Broadcasting Corporation] claims that Radio RSA presents balanced and objective information which enables its audiences to make a more accurate assessment of South African affairs against a background of what it describes as inaccurate and often one-sided coverage given events in South Africa by foreign media.
The study took forty-five hours of Radio RSA broadcasts and categorized the narrative into six interrelated propaganda themes, which I summarize below.

1. Brand South Africa

The most common theme sought to deflect from the apartheid issue and instead focus on “positive” traits shared between South Africa and other Western nations:

Theme 1. South Africa is an unusually complex, modern society with a pro-Western government, a vital capitalist economy, vast natural resources, and a rich cultural life with ties to Western Europe. While the nation faces serious, continuing problems of race, exclusive focus on this single aspect of South African society, by the media of other countries, has produced a highly distorted and misleading international image of the nation.
[...]
[T]he view of South Africa as a modern, productive society with strong cultural links to the West, working to achieve greater participation for all of its citizens in national political and economic life through gradual reform, is introduced in a piecemeal fashion. Nevertheless items depicting day-to-day life in South Africa, music, literature, art, business, science, flora and fauna all carry Radio RSA's most important message: contrary to the image of South Africa constructed by the international media, and despite admitted difficulties, South Africa is a vital, progressive state with much to admire and is deserving of support from the West.

Wasburn explained how something seemingly innocuous, such as focusing on South Africa’s achievements and rich culture, sought to mask the country’s crimes through an “apolitical” filter:

The accusation that a nation is insensitive to human rights or is militarily adventurous calls for the construction and presentation of a national image inconsistent with the labeling. The distinction between issue-specific and what will be termed thematic counterpropaganda is not hard and fast. However, it does clarify how manifestly nonpolitical material can be employed as a form of counterpropaganda.

Even the most cursory glance at the programming schedules of the major international broadcasting organizations reveals that a substantial amount of broadcast time is devoted to the transmission of materials such as music, sporting events, verbal travelogues, cultural affairs, business, and features purporting to depict daily life in the nation.

Although lacking obvious political content, numerous analysts have contended that such cultural materials can effectively promote particular values and national images that serve political and economic interests. Benevolence–malevolence is a common cognitive dimension of international images attributed to nations. A likely reason for allocating time to materials lacking obvious political intent is that they can cultivate a more benevolent image of a nation. Such materials do not evoke the resistance aroused by assertions that deal explicitly with political events, conditions, policies, principles, or other potentially
controversial matters.

The goal of such strategy is to disprove that Country X is a “bad” country by demonstrating that it produces some “good.” If the country does good, then criticism of the country as “bad” cannot be correct. This assists us in parsing the strategy behind campaigns such as pinkwashing. Of course the flaw is that good actions do not offset bad ones, and criticism of a nation’s actions are not offset by positive labels ascribed to the country as a whole. The branding theme seeks to determine whether a country is inherently good or bad, thus deflecting criticisms of what the country’s government is doing.

2. Singling out South Africa

Theme 2. South Africa is wantonly and hypocritically singled out as a nation that oppresses its people. The government of South Africa is committed to democratic development. To this end, it is working to promote economic advancement, literacy, order, and stability, all of which are social preconditions for the maintenance of political liberties. The great threat to continuing social improvement in South Africa comes from revolutionary forces that are committed to violence and attempt to disrupt peace and legal order.
Radio RSA cited an opinion piece by British writer and commentator Simon Jenkins, who at the time had just returned from trips to Israel and South Africa.
Jenkins’s piece, titled “People Who Live In Glass Houses: Before the British Begin to Criticise Other Nations on Human Rights, They Should Go to See Ulsters’ Peace Wall,” was published in the Sunday Times on February 28, 1988.

Radio RSA quoted from the piece two days later:
“The past week saw media attention being paid to the violence in Northern Ireland, Israeli soldiers beating Palestinians, the reporting of uprisings in the Soviet Union as well as the news of the restrictions placed on organizations in South Africa ... (I was) shocked by the complexity of the problems in Israel and South Africa, many of which were inherited from British policy decisions. (I was) impressed, however, by the efforts being made to overcome these problems. (I do) not believe that either Tel Aviv or Pretoria takes any more delight in increasing the permanent emergency powers than does the British government in extending its own increasingly permanent emergency powers.”

3. There are prominent and successful blacks in South Africa. Blacks are better off here than elsewhere.

Theme 3. South Africa has undertaken major programs to improve black–white relations—particularly through increasing black participation in the management of the South African economy.
This theme attempted to counter accusations of racism by demonstrating a commitment to improving the situation of blacks in South Africa.
For example, the director of the International Executive Service of South Africa discussed a program to develop small, black-owned businesses in Soweto (March 9, 1988) and the director of South Africa’s Urban Foundation described how the South African business community has tried to respond to the social needs of black South Africans (February 19, 1988).
Moreover, Radio RSA cited studies proving black success in South Africa.
“Contrary to much international criticism that blacks in South Africa lack opportunities, a recent survey shows that increasing numbers of black businessmen are reaching the top in the executive field with local companies.
“(Voice of Trevor Woodburn, head of the Woodburn-Mann consulting organization that conducted the survey) I was absolutely shocked to find that we, in fact, have placed far more blacks at the senior executive levels than most of the consultants around the world—in countries like Britain, Australia, Canada, for example, or even Italy or Germany...”

4. South Africa wants peace and good relations with its neighbors

Theme 4. South Africa maintains a policy of peaceful co-existence and helpfulness toward the other nations of Africa.
Example:
“A spokesman for the South African Department of Foreign Affairs said the positive areas of cooperation between South Africa and Mozambique are often overlooked by the international community. A group of diplomats had been invited so that they could be shown an aspect of the cooperation that existed. The spokesman said it was significant that representations of countries such as Canada and Australia, which have been so vociferous in their criticisms of South Africa, had failed to use the opportunity to see the true state of affairs.” (March 5, 1988)
As well, Radio RSA boasted that South Africa’s “economic strength” and “agricultural and technical know-how” could benefit less-developed countries in Africa:
“South African presence in central Africa has been criticized by the Nigerian government, according to two articles in the Johannesburg press yesterday. But South Africa’s aid to the development of agriculture in Equatorial Guinea will achieve wider acceptance of the fact that South Africa, with its economic strength and depth of agricultural and technical knowhow, is well placed to contribute significantly to development in Africa.” (February 10, 1988)

5. BDS is “counterproductive”

Theme 5. Efforts by foreign states to influence South Africa’s domestic policies through the imposition of negative economic sanctions are both futile and counterproductive. South Africa’s economy is fundamentally sound. A slide backward into recession, unemployment, and falling real income would worsen social problems. The nation’s social-political difficulties are complex and can be solved best by its own people.
Critics of BDS against South Africa often claimed that reforms were under way but could be hindered by negative actions that forced white South Africans to react defensively and “circle the wagons”—often referred to by its Afrikaner term as the “laager” mentality.

Moreover, BDS would hurt the population it sought to help:
“The London branch of the Washington based International Freedom Foundation has issued a publication that questions whether massive disruption of the South African economy is either in the interest of, or supported by, the blacks in South Africa. Entitled Understanding Sanctions, it analyzes opinions held by black South Africans and finds that opposition to sanctions encompasses all sectors, including trade unionists, church and tribal leaders, and the ordinary black population. It say disinvestment hurts no one except those too poor to do anything about it, and that means the vast majority of the black population of South Africa. The publication concluded that for positive reform to accelerate, the West has to take moral courage and positive action in the form of investment in South Africa.” (February 19, 1988)
The International Freedom Foundation, cited above, was a DC-based think-tank covertly funded by the South African government to promote the government’s interests.
6. South Africa resides in a tough neighborhood; South Africa is an asset to the West.
Theme 6. Political and economic instability is widespread across southern Africa. The chief sources of such problems are tribalism, incompetence, crime, corruption, and, most important, foreign interference. South Africa deserves Western support because of its potential as a major stabilizing force on the subcontinent.
With the assertion of this theme, South African national image construction comes full circle. It has moved from the defensive position that criticisms of South Africa’s domestic and foreign policies are based, for the most part, on misunderstanding are hypocrisy, to the offensive position that criticism and negative sanctions should be replaced by various forms of support for South Africa from the West.
To pursue this offensive strategy, it was first necessary to establish that factors, other than the activities of South Africa itself, were responsible for the region’s political and economic problems...[N]umerous items appeared in the top-of-the-hour newscasts that dealt with lack of cooperation, incompetence, and corruption in other African nations and even in Africa’s international organizations...
The position that the Republic of South Africa contributed to such stability as there was in southern Africa, rested on many of the same items presented in support of Theme 4, which expressed South Africa’s helpfulness toward the other nations of the continent. Additional items also were presented that expressed South Africa’s importance to the overall economy of Africa.
Invest, don’t divest
An additional argument stressed in both themes 5 and 6 called for investment, not divestment or sanctions, as a positive and constructive solution for South Africa:
“Investment, not sanctions, is the only way in which Europe (can) contribute towards a peaceful resolution of southern Africa’s problems. South Africa needs assistance in its struggle for stability, not avoidance or neglect.” (March 12, 1988)
And, as previously quoted:

“[D]isinvestment hurts no one except those too poor to do anything about it, and that means the vast majority of the black population of South Africa...[F]or positive reform to accelerate, the West has to take moral courage and positive action in the form of investment in South Africa.” (February 19, 1988)
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 31, 2012, 06:11:52 PM
Bar a couple of irrelevant mentions of Israel circa 1988, the only thing that stood out to me was this piece of complete ballix
Quote
Radio RSA cited an opinion piece by British writer and commentator Simon Jenkins, who at the time had just returned from trips to Israel and South Africa.
Jenkins’s piece, titled “People Who Live In Glass Houses: Before the British Begin to Criticise Other Nations on Human Rights, They Should Go to See Ulsters’ Peace Wall,” was published in the Sunday Times on February 28, 1988.

Anyone, like myself, who has lived within a stones throw (literally) will tell you that the peace walls are a necessary evil, and a sign of a divided society, not a breach of anyones human rights. Everyone would love to see a day when they weren't needed, but for now, they are.


I would ask that you keep the rest of your posts relevant to the current situation, or I will be forced to start dragging up crap from the time of King David. Equally irrelevant
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 31, 2012, 07:32:19 PM
Bar a couple of irrelevant mentions of Israel circa 1988, the only thing that stood out to me was this piece of complete ballix
Quote
Radio RSA cited an opinion piece by British writer and commentator Simon Jenkins, who at the time had just returned from trips to Israel and South Africa.
Jenkins’s piece, titled “People Who Live In Glass Houses: Before the British Begin to Criticise Other Nations on Human Rights, They Should Go to See Ulsters’ Peace Wall,” was published in the Sunday Times on February 28, 1988.

Anyone, like myself, who has lived within a stones throw (literally) will tell you that the peace walls are a necessary evil, and a sign of a divided society, not a breach of anyones human rights. Everyone would love to see a day when they weren't needed, but for now, they are.


I would ask that you keep the rest of your posts relevant to the current situation, or I will be forced to start dragging up crap from the time of King David. Equally irrelevant

85% of the wall is built on Palestinian land. So it's a land grab. Not a peace wall.


http://www.btselem.org/separation_barrier

"Eighty-five percent of the amended route runs through the West Bank, and not along the Green Line. In areas where the Barrier has already been built, the extensive violations of human rights of Palestinians living nearby are evident. Further construction inside the West Bank, in accordance with the Cabinet's decision of February 2005, causes additional human rights violations affecting hundreds of thousands of local residents.
 
The construction of the barrier has brought new restrictions on movement for Palestinians living near the Barrier's route, in addition to the widespread restrictions that have been in place since the outbreak of the current intifada. Thousands of Palestinians have difficulty going to their fields and marketing their produce in other areas of the West Bank. The areas west of the Barrier are one of the most fertile areas in the West Bank, and the agriculture there generates, according to the World Bank, 8 percent of Palestinian agricultural production. The harm to the farming sector prevents Palestinian farmers from gaining additional income and prevents an increase in the number of Palestinians working in agriculture, which is a major sector of the Palestinian economy.
 
The restrictions on freedom of movement also impair access of rural Palestinians to hospitals in nearby towns, harm the educational system since many schools, primarily in rural areas, are dependent on teachers who live outside the community, and hamper family and social ties."

BTW if the Zionists ran Belfast no catholic living west of the Bann would be allowed into the city.

Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on October 31, 2012, 07:41:25 PM
Quote
BTW if the Zionists ran Belfast nobody West of the Bann would be allowed into the city.
Just bloody right. Hateful shower of hoors they are.  ;D

You know as well as I do that when the wall is finished, then the real negotiations will begin. Any settlements outside will probably just be dismantled, or left to their own devices.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on October 31, 2012, 08:20:05 PM
The ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 31, 2012, 08:39:02 PM
Quote
BTW if the Zionists ran Belfast nobody West of the Bann would be allowed into the city.
Just bloody right. Hateful shower of hoors they are.  ;D

You know as well as I do that when the wall is finished, then the real negotiations will begin. Any settlements outside will probably just be dismantled, or left to their own devices.
Raimeis

The wall was begun in 2003. Bush was president. Mubarak ruled Egypt. the US was the sole superpower. Iraq was about to be invaded. the Project for the new American century was go.

Now it's 2012. Rumsfeld is disgraced. We are into year 5 of the global economic crisis. Mubarak is dying. The brothers are in power. The Israeli embassy in Cairo was ransacked last year. The PNAC is banjaxed. The US was downgraded to AA.
The days when Israelis told Arabs what to do are over

http://www.magnumphotos.com/C.aspx?VP3=SearchResult&ALID=2K7O3R1W2I1U

Israel is stuck in a trap it built itself. It can't pull out of the West Bank because to do so would provoke a Jewish civil war. 40% of IDF officers are either settlers or Orthodox. Israel can only deepen the occupation and hope the world doesn't say anything about its apartheid.

The country is increasingly right wing. In the medium term the Orthodox will become the largest Jewish demographic.
the Orthodox are the least likely to accept the Palestinian right to self determination. 

It's a mess for the Zionists. They gambled their state on the settlers. 
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on October 31, 2012, 09:01:26 PM

Israel has always felt under siege, but its internal problems could be more damaging than any external threat. The rift is between the secular and the ultra-Orthodox, who believe any compromise with Arabs is unacceptable. Zealous immigrants are boosting the extreme right and militant settlers are pushing further into Palestinian territory. Last summer, a new social movement was born demanding an end to corruption, lower inflation and cuts to public services. Almost half a million Israelis took to the streets to protest. It was the biggest wave of demonstrations in the country's history. Meanwhile, the occupation of the Palestinian territories and the apartheid system inflicted on Palestinians living in Israel continues. Israel proclaims itself to be a secular, democratic and Jewish state - but can it credibly live up to such claims?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e99rS5QflXg#!
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on October 31, 2012, 09:46:53 PM
Israeli justice

An Israeli Court in Lod acquitted Tuesday an Israeli soldier who shot and killed a Palestinian child during a nonviolent protest against the Annexation Wall in Ni’lin village, near the central West Bank city of Ramallah, in July 2008.

The soldier admitted to firing two rounds of live ammunition at the child, 10-year-old Ahmad Mousa, leading to his death.

During his court testimony, the soldier said that “not firing back at those who hurl stones at the army is considered weakness; therefore, I opened fire”.

The Judge claimed that “it was not proven that the bullets fired by the soldier led to the death of the child”, despite the fact that she acknowledged that the soldier opened fire using live ammunition while his life was not in danger.

The soldier, identified as Omri Abu, stated that he was in a bulletproof vehicle, but added that “these vehicles protect you to a certain level, and sometimes become useless when the hood is damaged, and the windshield is broken”.

According to Israeli daily, Haaretz, as the unit arrived at the scene, Palestinian youths started hurling stones at the armored jeep, and Abu immediately opened the jeep’s door and fired two rounds of live ammunition, hitting the child in the forehead causing instant death.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on November 02, 2012, 07:59:43 AM
Mick Davis, the CEO of Xstrata, is an antisemite

 http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bffd3136-532c-11e1-8aa1-00144feabdc0.html

As a leader of Britain’s Jewish community he made waves last year when he criticised Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel’s prime minister, warning that unless there was a two-state solution with the Palestinians, Israel risked becoming an apartheid state.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on November 02, 2012, 10:23:01 AM
95 years ago today, one nation solemnly promised to a second nation the country of a third." More than that, the country was still part of the Empire of a fourth, namely Turkey.

It read:

Foreign Office, November 2nd,1917

Dear Lord Rothschild,

I have much pleasure in conveying to you on behalf of His Majesty's Government the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations, which has been submitted to and approved by the Cabinet:

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

I should be grateful if you would bring this Declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely,

Arthur James Balfour.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p389_John.html
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on November 02, 2012, 10:37:06 AM
95 years ago today, one nation solemnly promised to a second nation the country of a third." More than that, the country was still part of the Empire of a fourth, namely Turkey.

It read:

Foreign Office, November 2nd,1917

Dear Lord Rothschild,

I have much pleasure in conveying to you on behalf of His Majesty's Government the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations, which has been submitted to and approved by the Cabinet:

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

I should be grateful if you would bring this Declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely,

Arthur James Balfour.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p389_John.html


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/01/uk-responsibility-to-the-palestinians

Today is the 95th anniversary of the Balfour Declaration, when the then foreign secretary, Arthur Balfour, signed a fateful letter to Lord Rothschild announcing that the British government "view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish people". Britain thus gave the zionist movement carte blanche to transform the overwhelmingly Arab state of Palestine into a Jewish one.

To further this aim, from 1920 onwards, Britain encouraged the mass immigration into Palestine of hundreds of thousands of European Jews, expressly against the wishes of the majority population. As Palestine descended into chaos, the British washed their hands of their responsibility for the mess they had caused and stood by while hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were terrorised into fleeing their homeland, as Palestine was transformed into Israel.

We call for the British government to acknowledge publicly the responsibility of previous British administrations from 1917 to 1948 for the catastrophe that befell the Palestinians, when over threequarters were expelled deliberately and systematically by the zionist army. Most of them remain refugees today without redress. The truth about their expulsions is still not officially established, since Israel officially denies any responsibility for it.

Ghada Karmi
Tim Llewellyn
Karl Sabbagh
John Rose
Kamel Hawwash
Naomi Foyle
Mona Baker
Mike Marquesee
Seni Seneviratne
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on November 02, 2012, 10:38:14 AM
it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine

doesn't really tally with

2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on November 05, 2012, 01:46:02 PM
Below is an account by Professor Noam Chomsky on his visit to Gaza last week. Well worth a read for a current and historical observation on the besieged region:

http://chomsky.info/articles/20121104.htm


Impressions of Gaza


Noam Chomsky

November 4, 2012


Even a single night in jail is enough to give a taste of what it means to be under the total control of some external force. And it hardly takes more than a day in Gaza to begin to appreciate what it must be like to try to survive in the world’s largest open-air prison, where a million and a half people, in the most densely populated area of the world, are constantly subject to random and often savage terror and arbitrary punishment, with no purpose other than to humiliate and degrade, and with the further goal of ensuring that Palestinian hopes for a decent future will be crushed and that the overwhelming global support for a diplomatic settlement that will grant these rights will be nullified.

The intensity of this commitment on the part of the Israeli political leadership has been dramatically illustrated just in the past few days, as they warn that they will “go crazy” if Palestinian rights are given limited recognition at the UN. That is not a new departure. The threat to “go crazy” (“nishtagea”) is deeply rooted, back to the Labor governments of the 1950s, along with the related “Samson Complex”: we will bring down the Temple walls if crossed. It was an idle threat then; not today.

The purposeful humiliation is also not new, though it constantly takes new forms. Thirty years ago political leaders, including some of the most noted hawks, submitted to Prime Minister Begin a shocking and detailed account of how settlers regularly abuse Palestinians in the most depraved manner and with total impunity. The prominent military-political analyst Yoram Peri wrote with disgust that the army’s task is not to defend the state, but “to demolish the rights of innocent people just because they are Araboushim (“niggers,” “kikes”) living in territories that God promised to us.”

Gazans have been selected for particularly cruel punishment. It is almost miraculous that people can sustain such an existence. How they do so was described thirty years ago in an eloquent memoir by Raja Shehadeh (The Third Way), based on his work as a lawyer engaged in the hopeless task of trying to protect elementary rights within a legal system designed to ensure failure, and his personal experience as a Samid, “a steadfast one,” who watches his home turned into a prison by brutal occupiers and can do nothing but somehow “endure.”

Since Shehadeh wrote, the situation has become much worse. The Oslo agreements, celebrated with much pomp in 1993, determined that Gaza and the West Bank are a single territorial entity. By then the US and Israel had already initiated their program of separating them fully from one another, so as to block a diplomatic settlement and punish the Araboushim in both territories.

Punishment of Gazans became still more severe in January 2006, when they committed a major crime: they voted the “wrong way” in the first free election in the Arab world, electing Hamas. Demonstrating their passionate “yearning for democracy,” the US and Israel, backed by the timid European Union, at once imposed a brutal siege, along with intensive military attacks. The US also turned at once to standard operating procedure when some disobedient population elects the wrong government: prepare a military coup to restore order.

Gazans committed a still greater crime a year later by blocking the coup attempt, leading to a sharp escalation of the siege and military attacks. These culminated in winter 2008-9, with Operation Cast Lead, one of the most cowardly and vicious exercises of military force in recent memory, as a defenseless civilian population, trapped with no way to escape, was subjected to relentless attack by one of the world’s most advanced military systems relying on US arms and protected by US diplomacy. An unforgettable eyewitness account of the slaughter — “infanticide” in their words — is given by the two courageous Norwegian doctors who worked at Gaza’s main hospital during the merciless assault, Mads Gilbert and Erik Fosse, in their remarkable book Eyes in Gaza.

President-elect Obama was unable to say a word, apart from reiterating his heartfelt sympathy for children under attack — in the Israeli town Sderot. The carefully planned assault was brought to an end right before his inauguration, so that he could then say that now is the time to look forward, not backward, the standard refuge of criminals.

Of course, there were pretexts — there always are. The usual one, trotted out when needed, is “security”: in this case, home-made rockets from Gaza. As is commonly the case, the pretext lacked any credibility. In 2008 a truce was established between Israel and Hamas. The Israeli government formally recognizes that Hamas observed it fully. Not a single Hamas rocket was fired until Israel broke the truce under cover of the US election on November 4 2008, invading Gaza on ludicrous grounds and killing half a dozen Hamas members. The Israeli government was advised by its highest intelligence officials that the truce could be renewed by easing the criminal blockade and ending military attacks. But the government of Ehud Olmert, reputedly a dove, chose to reject these options, preferring to resort to its huge comparative advantage in violence: Operation Cast Lead. The basic facts are reviewed once again by foreign policy analyst Jerome Slater in the current issue of the Harvard-MIT journal International Security.

The pattern of bombing under Cast Lead was carefully analyzed by the highly informed and internationally respected Gazan human rights advocate Raji Sourani. He points out that the bombing was concentrated in the north, targeting defenseless civilians in the most densely populated areas, with no possible military pretext. The goal, he suggests, may have been to drive the intimidated population to the south, near the Egyptian border. But the Samidin stayed put, despite the avalanche of US-Israeli terror.

A further goal might have been to drive them beyond. Back to the earliest days of the Zionist colonization it was argued across much of the spectrum that Arabs have no real reason to be in Palestine; they can be just as happy somewhere else, and should leave — politely “transferred,” the doves suggested. This is surely no small concern in Egypt, and perhaps a reason why Egypt does not open the border freely to civilians or even to desperately needed materials

Sourani and other knowledgeable sources observe that the discipline of the Samidin conceals a powder keg, which might explode any time, unexpectedly, as the first Intifada did in Gaza in 1989 after years of miserable repression that elicited no notice or concern,

Merely to mention one of innumerable cases, shortly before the outbreak of the Intifada a Palestinian girl, Intissar al-Atar, was shot and killed in a schoolyard by a resident of a nearby Jewish settlement. He was one of the several thousand Israelis settlers brought to Gaza in violation of international law and protected by a huge army presence, taking over much of the land and scarce water of the Strip and living “lavishly in twenty-two settlements in the midst of 1.4 million destitute Palestinians,” as the crime is described by Israeli scholar Avi Raz. The murderer of the schoolgirl, Shimon Yifrah, was arrested, but quickly released on bail when the Court determined that “the offense is not severe enough” to warrant detention. The judge commented that Yifrah only intended to shock the girl by firing his gun at her in a schoolyard, not to kill her, so “this is not a case of a criminal person who has to be punished, deterred, and taught a lesson by imprisoning him.” Yifrah was given a 7-month suspended sentence, while settlers in the courtroom broke out in song and dance. And the usual silence reigned. After all, it is routine.

And so it is. As Yifrah was freed, the Israeli press reported that an army patrol fired into the yard of a school for boys aged 6 to 12 in a West Bank refugee camp, wounding five children, allegedly intending only “to shock them.” There were no charges, and the event again attracted no attention. It was just another episode in the program of “illiteracy as punishment,” the Israeli press reported, including the closing of schools, use of gas bombs, beating of students with rifle butts, barring of medical aid for victims; and beyond the schools a reign of more severe brutality, becoming even more savage during the Intifada, under the orders of Defense Minister Yitzhak Rabin, another admired dove.

My initial impression, after a visit of several days, was amazement, not only at the ability to go on with life, but also at the vibrancy and vitality among young people, particularly at the university, where I spent much of my time at an international conference. But there too one can detect signs that the pressure may become too hard to bear. Reports indicate that among young men there is simmering frustration, recognition that under the US-Israeli occupation the future holds nothing for them. There is only so much that caged animals can endure, and there may be an eruption, perhaps taking ugly forms — offering an opportunity for Israeli and western apologists to self-righteously condemn the people who are culturally backward, as Mitt Romney insightfully explained.

Gaza has the look of a typical third world society, with pockets of wealth surrounded by hideous poverty. It is not, however, “undeveloped.” Rather it is “de-developed,” and very systematically so, to borrow the terms of Sara Roy, the leading academic specialist on Gaza. The Gaza Strip could have become a prosperous Mediterranean region, with rich agriculture and a flourishing fishing industry, marvelous beaches and, as discovered a decade ago, good prospects for extensive natural gas supplies within its territorial waters.   

By coincidence or not, that is when Israel intensified its naval blockade, driving fishing boats toward shore, by now to 3 miles or less.

The favorable prospects were aborted in 1948, when the Strip had to absorb a flood of Palestinian refugees who fled in terror or were forcefully expelled from what became Israel, in some cases expelled months after the formal cease-fire.

In fact, they were being expelled even four years later, as reported in Ha’aretz (25.12.2008), in a thoughtful study by Beni Tziper on the history of Israeli Ashkelon back to the Canaanites. In 1953, he reports, there was a “cool calculation that it was necessary to cleanse the region of Arabs.” The original name, Majdal, had already been “Judaized” to today’s Ashkelon, regular practice.

That was in 1953, when there was no hint of military necessity. Tziper himself was born in 1953, and while walking in the remnants of the old Arab sector, he reflects that “it is really difficult for me, really difficult, to realize that while my parents were celebrating my birth, other people were being loaded on trucks and expelled from their homes.”

Israel’s 1967 conquests and their aftermath administered further blows. Then came the terrible crimes already mentioned, continuing to the present day.

The signs are easy to see, even on a brief visit. Sitting in a hotel near the shore, one can hear the machine gun fire of Israeli gunboats driving fishermen out of Gaza’s territorial waters and towards shore, so they are compelled to fish in waters that are heavily polluted because of US-Israeli refusal to allow reconstruction of the sewage and power systems that they destroyed.

The Oslo Accords laid plans for two desalination plants, a necessity in this arid region. One, an advanced facility, was built: in Israel. The second one is in Khan Yunis, in the south of Gaza. The engineer in charge of trying to obtain potable water for the population explained that this plant was designed so that it cannot use sea water, but must rely on underground water, a cheaper process, which further degrades the meager aquifer, guaranteeing severe problems in the future. Even with that, water is severely limited. The United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), which cares for refugees (but not other Gazans), recently released a report warning that damage to the aquifer may soon become “irreversible,” and that without remedial action quickly, by 2020 Gaza may not be a “liveable place.”

Israel permits concrete to enter for UNRWA projects, but not for Gazans engaged in the huge reconstruction needs. The limited heavy equipment mostly lies idle, since Israel does not permit materials for repair. All of this is part of the general program described by Israeli official Dov Weisglass, an adviser to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, after Palestinians failed to follow orders in the 2006 elections: “The idea,” he said, “is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger.” That would not look good.

And the plan is being scrupulously followed. Sara Roy has provided extensive evidence in her scholarly studies. Recently, after several years of effort, the Israeli human rights organization Gisha succeeded to obtain a court order for the government to release its records detailing plans for the diet, and how they are executed. Israel-based journalist Jonathan Cook summarizes them: “Health officials provided calculations of the minimum number of calories needed by Gaza’s 1.5 million inhabitants to avoid malnutrition. Those figures were then translated into truckloads of food Israel was supposed to allow in each day ... an average of only 67 trucks — much less than half of the minimum requirement — entered Gaza daily. This compared to more than 400 trucks before the blockade began.” And even this estimate is overly generous, UN relief officials report.

The result of imposing the diet, Mideast scholar Juan Cole observes, is that “[a]bout ten percent of Palestinian children in Gaza under 5 have had their growth stunted by malnutrition ... in addition, anemia is widespread, affecting over two-thirds of infants, 58.6 percent of schoolchildren, and over a third of pregnant mothers.” The US and Israel want to ensure that nothing more than bare survival is possible.

“What has to be kept in mind,” observes Raji Sourani, “is that the occupation and the absolute closure is an ongoing attack on the human dignity of the people in Gaza in particular and all Palestinians generally. It is systematic degradation, humiliation, isolation and fragmentation of the Palestinian people.” The conclusion is confirmed by many other sources. In one of the world’s leading medical journals, The Lancet, a visiting Stanford physician, appalled by what he witnessed, describes Gaza as “something of a laboratory for observing an absence of dignity,” a condition that has “devastating” effects on physical, mental, and social wellbeing. “The constant surveillance from the sky, collective punishment through blockade and isolation, the intrusion into homes and communications, and restrictions on those trying to travel, or marry, or work make it difficult to live a dignified life in Gaza.” The Araboushim must be taught not to raise their heads.

There were hopes that the new Morsi government in Egypt, less in thrall to Israel than the western-backed Mubarak dictatorship, might open the Rafah crossing, the sole access to the outside for trapped Gazans that is not subject to direct Israeli control. There has been slight opening, but not much. Journalist Laila el-Haddad writes that the re-opening under Morsi, “is simply a return to status quo of years past: only Palestinians carrying an Israeli-approved Gaza ID card can use Rafah Crossing,” excluding a great many Palestinians, including el-Haddad’s family, where only one spouse has a card.

Furthermore, she continues, “the crossing does not lead to the West Bank, nor does it allow for the passage of goods, which are restricted to the Israeli-controlled crossings and subject to prohibitions on construction materials and export.” The restricted Rafah crossing does not change the fact that “Gaza remains under tight maritime and aerial siege, and continues to be closed off to the Palestinians’ cultural, economic, and academic capitals in the rest of the [occupied territories], in violation of US-Israeli obligations under the Oslo Accords.”

The effects are painfully evident. In the Khan Yunis hospital, the director, who is also chief of surgery, describes with anger and passion how even medicines are lacking for relief of suffering patients, as well as simple surgical equipment, leaving doctors helpless and patients in agony. Personal stories add vivid texture to the general disgust one feels at the obscenity of the harsh occupation. One example is the testimony of a young woman who despaired that her father, who would have been proud that she was the first woman in the refugee camp to gain an advanced degree, had “passed away after 6 months of fighting cancer aged 60 years. Israeli occupation denied him a permit to go to Israeli hospitals for treatment. I had to suspend my study, work and life and go to set next to his bed. We all sat including my brother the physician and my sister the pharmacist, all powerless and hopeless watching his suffering. He died during the inhumane blockade of Gaza in summer 2006 with very little access to health service. I think feeling powerless and hopeless is the most killing feeling that human can ever have. It kills the spirit and breaks the heart. You can fight occupation but you cannot fight your feeling of being powerless. You can't even dissolve that feeling.”

Disgust at the obscenity, compounded with guilt: it is within our power to bring the suffering to an end and allow the Samidin to enjoy the lives of peace and dignity that they deserve.

Noam Chomsky visited the Gaza Strip on October 25-30, 2012.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on November 06, 2012, 05:12:48 PM
Gaza: Israeli Forces Kill Palestinian Man

 
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
 
Published: November 5, 2012
 
 A Palestinian in the Gaza Strip who died early Monday after he was shot by Israeli forces as he approached the border fence with Israel was mentally ill, his family said. Israeli forces shot the man, Ahmad Nabhani, 23, as he crawled toward the border on Sunday evening, partly concealed in a dried river bed, an Israeli military spokeswoman said. She said he ignored several warnings to stop. Mr. Nabhani later died of his wounds. “He was sick, he had a mental illness,” said Mr. Nabhani’s brother, Hazem, 27. He said his brother was being heavily medicated for depression and had approached the border fence three times previously. Each time, Israeli forces handed him back to Palestinian authorities, his brother said. “My brother didn’t understand anything,” he said. “Sometimes you’d speak to him and he wouldn’t understand. It is like he wasn’t there.”

Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 06, 2012, 07:17:26 PM
While it is a tragedy that someone with a mental disorder has lost their life, it is hardly the fault of the soldiers.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on November 10, 2012, 03:27:04 PM
Israel back to doing what it does best...... Murdering children playing football.

Hamid's only crime was been born a Palestinian in the worlds largest open air prison


Gaza boy killed by Israel dreamed of becoming soccer player


Published today (updated) 10/11/2012 17:08

GAZA CITY (Ma'an) -- Hamid Younis Abu Daqqa, 13, always wore his Real Madrid shirt when he played soccer with his friends. He died wearing the shirt, killed by Israeli forces before the second half of a game with friends could be finished.

His father said Hamid would imitate Real Madrid star Ronaldo while playing in front of his Gaza home.

"My house is located in an area away from clashes, nearly one and a half kilometers away from the nearest point of the borders with Israel, therefore I didn't have a problem my son playing in front of the house," Hamid's father told Ma'an.

"I received a phone call. His friend was on the phone telling me that my son was shot in the chest. I rushed to the hospital and found him dying."

Hamid would never miss a Real Madrid game.




"Despite me pushing him to focus on his schoolwork, he would be mesmerized in front of the TV screen watching games," his father said.

Hamid used to play soccer every day for 30 minutes before sundown, his attention focused on the ball, blocking out the sound of Israel helicopters.

It was during a game he loved that Hamid was killed, his white Real Madrid shirt stained red as the bullets hit him.

Medics said Hamid was hit by machine gun fire, either from Israeli helicopters or tanks, during an incursion into the Gaza Strip on Thursday.

An Israeli army spokeswoman said at the time that reports of injuries were being checked.

Hamid's funeral took place on Friday, a Palestinian flag draped over his body.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on November 10, 2012, 04:18:25 PM
In the past 30 minutes, Israel have launced several attacks on several locations in Gaza. One hit a crowded civilian area and 3 Palestinian teenagers, Ahmed Kamel Aldrdsawe, Mohammed Osama and Muhamad Al-Khor were murdered. 30 others, including several children were injured, 10 seriously.

Another airstrike hit a house, injuring 4 children from one family.

How much longer can the world sit back and allow this racist murder machine called Israel to continue it's ethnic cleansing of Palestine?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 10, 2012, 04:25:08 PM
Is that the WHOLE story? Did Israel just start firing into Gaza for no reason?
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 10, 2012, 04:50:44 PM

Gaza Terrorists Hit IDF Jeep with Anti-Tank Missile

The jeep was hit and caught fire. It had been moving along the security fence.
 

AAFont Size
 By Gil Ronen
First Publish: 11/10/2012, 12:00 AM
 

 

Arabs in Gaza say terrorists have hit an IDF jeep with an anti-tank missile.
 
The jeep reportedly caught fire. It had been driving along the border between Gaza and Israel, opposite the Zeitoun neighborhood in central Gaza, east of Gaza City.
 
Voice of Israel public radio said the jeep belonged to the Givati Brigade.
 
According to an Arab report, the IDF responded with heavy tank fire at the eastern part of Gaza and at an area east of Khan Younis. There were also reports of artillery fire and fire from helicopters.
 
"Two Palestinians were killed and 22 others wounded, six of them seriously," said spokesman Yahya Khader of the Hamas government's emergency services in Gaza, who was quoted by AFP. Voice of Israel radio said the unofficial death toll in Gaza was five.
 
On Thursday, a huge tunnel packed with hundreds of kilograms of explosives blew up near an IDF force. One soldier was lightly wounded
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2012, 05:05:55 PM
Is that the WHOLE story? Did Israel just start firing into Gaza for no reason?
You have to go back to the 1940s. The Nazis murdered 6 million Jews. After the war the US and the British  gave them half of Palestine in sympathy. The Jews ethnically cleansed Southern Palestine and created a small enclave around Gaza into which they shunted all the Palestinians they didn't want in their Jewish state.  In 1967 for reasons nobody understands they occupied Gaza.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on November 10, 2012, 05:10:27 PM
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/10/world/meast/gaza-violence/

Gaza City (CNN) -- Three Palestinians were killed and 22 injured when Israeli tank fire hit a building east of Gaza City where hundreds of mourners were gathered for a funeral, Palestinian medical sources said Saturday.

Ten of those injured are in a serious condition, the medical sources said, and the number of deaths is expected to rise.

CNN has not yet been able to reach the Israeli military for comment on the incident.

Palestinian security sources said the Israeli artillery fire followed the detonation of a device by a Palestinian militant group targeting an Israeli military vehicle, near the border between Gaza and Israel.

In a separate incident, Palestinian medical sources in Khan Younis, in the south of the Gaza Strip, said an Israeli artillery shell hit a civilian house and injured a couple and their two children.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2012, 07:19:04 PM
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/10/world/meast/gaza-violence/

Gaza City (CNN) -- Three Palestinians were killed and 22 injured when Israeli tank fire hit a building east of Gaza City where hundreds of mourners were gathered for a funeral, Palestinian medical sources said Saturday.

Ten of those injured are in a serious condition, the medical sources said, and the number of deaths is expected to rise.

CNN has not yet been able to reach the Israeli military for comment on the incident.

Palestinian security sources said the Israeli artillery fire followed the detonation of a device by a Palestinian militant group targeting an Israeli military vehicle, near the border between Gaza and Israel.

In a separate incident, Palestinian medical sources in Khan Younis, in the south of the Gaza Strip, said an Israeli artillery shell hit a civilian house and injured a couple and their two children.
Israel is like Japan in 1935. Run by a military cult who think their country is favoured by God and can do anything.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: haveaharp on November 10, 2012, 07:59:19 PM
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/10/world/meast/gaza-violence/

Gaza City (CNN) -- Three Palestinians were killed and 22 injured when Israeli tank fire hit a building east of Gaza City where hundreds of mourners were gathered for a funeral, Palestinian medical sources said Saturday.

Ten of those injured are in a serious condition, the medical sources said, and the number of deaths is expected to rise.

CNN has not yet been able to reach the Israeli military for comment on the incident.

Palestinian security sources said the Israeli artillery fire followed the detonation of a device by a Palestinian militant group targeting an Israeli military vehicle, near the border between Gaza and Israel.

In a separate incident, Palestinian medical sources in Khan Younis, in the south of the Gaza Strip, said an Israeli artillery shell hit a civilian house and injured a couple and their two children.
Israel is like Japan in 1935. Run by a military cult who think their country is favoured by God and can do anything.

Except that Japan didn't have the backing of America to do as they pleased in their region.
Cannot see anything changing anytime soon.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on November 10, 2012, 09:42:09 PM
A further 2 people have died from injuries they recieved today when US/Israeli war planes attacked the mourners at a funeral. Another man has died from injuries as Israel continues to bomb Gaza, bringing the total killed today to 7.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2012, 10:59:28 PM
A further 2 people have died from injuries they recieved today when US/Israeli war planes attacked the mourners at a funeral. Another man has died from injuries as Israel continues to bomb Gaza, bringing the total killed today to 7.
It's pour encourager les autres. Gaza isn't supposed to have anti tank weapons.
Only the Jews are allowed to fight with 20th and 21st century technology.
Israel just wants peace. 
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: dillinger on November 11, 2012, 12:35:51 AM
In the past 30 minutes, Israel have launced several attacks on several locations in Gaza. One hit a crowded civilian area and 3 Palestinian teenagers, Ahmed Kamel Aldrdsawe, Mohammed Osama and Muhamad Al-Khor were murdered. 30 others, including several children were injured, 10 seriously.
Are you getting these names before the deceased families are or something?

I mean, in the last 30 minutes! :o
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: give her dixie on November 11, 2012, 12:42:37 AM
In the past 30 minutes, Israel have launced several attacks on several locations in Gaza. One hit a crowded civilian area and 3 Palestinian teenagers, Ahmed Kamel Aldrdsawe, Mohammed Osama and Muhamad Al-Khor were murdered. 30 others, including several children were injured, 10 seriously.
Are you getting these names before the deceased families are or something?

I mean, in the last 30 minutes! :o

Whenever there are deaths in Palestine, the names of the dead are usually released upon identification. In the case of the above names, they were killed instantly at the funeral in front of hundreds of people, and their families, and so their names were released immediatly.
Title: Re: 2,279 calories per person: How Israel made sure Gaza didn't starve
Post by: haveaharp on November 14, 2012, 04:25:22 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20328579 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20328579)

Will this see a serious escalation ?
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: give her dixie on November 14, 2012, 04:36:22 PM
Hamas says now in 'open war' with Israel, promises 'gates of hell'

http://rt.com/news/hamas-open-war-israel-694/

In the past 2 hours, Israel launched an airstike on a car travelling in Gaza. It was another targeted assassination, and this time they murdered a top Hamas official, and 5 others.

This is a game changer, and the next few hours and days are going to be brutal.

How much punishment can the Palestinians take, and how much longer can the world allow Israel to murder, steal and kidnap at will?
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: give her dixie on November 14, 2012, 04:48:49 PM
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02398/gazaFire2_2398593d.jpg

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSysiqT4_YjWW65gBOH4cN3aRnlqCrgTJhBAXwiQ1wuG9GTSgcWNA
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2012, 04:54:53 PM
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02398/gazaFire2_2398593d.jpg

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSysiqT4_YjWW65gBOH4cN3aRnlqCrgTJhBAXwiQ1wuG9GTSgcWNA
Abbas is going to the UN on the 27th for a vote , no veto, on UN membership as an observing state.
Israeli Jews are going to end up at the ICC for what they have done to Gaza. 

It is all going to fall apart for Zionism. 
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Rossfan on November 14, 2012, 05:05:09 PM
[. 

It is all going to fall apart for Zionism.
Not while their mates in Washington continue to support/back/encourage/let them run wild  >:(
Always amazes me how firing rockets into apartment blocks isn't terrorism if it's done by Israeli military personnel but if a Palestinian fires a shot at an Israeli miltary vehicle its " Terrorism most foul"
Then they wonder why the Muslim world is so anti US
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: give her dixie on November 14, 2012, 05:39:54 PM
Not content with the assassinations today, the "IDF" have now uploaded an 11 second clip of the airstrike on the you tube channel. How sick can these people be? A young child was among the dead, and these sick b**tards post the video on you tube.....
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 14, 2012, 05:45:53 PM
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02398/gazaFire2_2398593d.jpg

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSysiqT4_YjWW65gBOH4cN3aRnlqCrgTJhBAXwiQ1wuG9GTSgcWNA
You come on here every 15 minutes posting up details of the latest Israeli atrocity. You ignore any action by the Palestinians, such as:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20294335

http://news.yahoo.com/israel-kills-one-second-day-gaza-strikes-062552365.html

That's the result of a 10 second google search. I'm no expert on the middle east, but I recognise a complex, intractable historical conflict when I see one. You, on the other hand, see nothing but a story a child of 6 could understand, with good guys on one side and monsters on the others. Grow up, ffs!
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2012, 05:54:48 PM
[. 

It is all going to fall apart for Zionism.
Not while their mates in Washington continue to support/back/encourage/let them run wild  >:(
Always amazes me how firing rockets into apartment blocks isn't terrorism if it's done by Israeli military personnel but if a Palestinian fires a shot at an Israeli miltary vehicle its " Terrorism most foul"
Then they wonder why the Muslim world is so anti US
Israeli FM yesterday said it is more important that Israel be Jewish rather than Israel be a democracy.
Let's see how long that lasts.
 
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2012, 05:55:50 PM
Not content with the assassinations today, the "IDF" have now uploaded an 11 second clip of the airstrike on the you tube channel. How sick can these people be? A young child was among the dead, and these sick b**tards post the video on you tube.....
Israel is a military cult. 80% of the people are indoctrinated. Very hard to see how they could lobby for peace when their whole society is built around the army. 
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ulick on November 14, 2012, 05:56:45 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G
You come on here every 15 minutes posting up details of the latest Israeli atrocity. You ignore any action by the Palestinians, such as:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20294335

http://news.yahoo.com/israel-kills-one-second-day-gaza-strikes-062552365.html

That's the result of a 10 second google search. I'm no expert on the middle east, but I recognise a complex, intractable historical conflict when I see one. You, on the other hand, see nothing but a story a child of 6 could understand, with good guys on one side and monsters on the others. Grow up, ffs!

From that BBC article:

"Israel says 11 rockets landed, one of which fell next to a house in Netivot. Several people were treated for shock.

Earlier, six Palestinians, including two militants, were killed in Israeli air strikes on Gaza, following an attack by militants on an army jeep."

Good one Myles, showing us just how proportional the Israeli actions are.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 14, 2012, 05:57:52 PM
Hamas says now in 'open war' with Israel, promises 'gates of hell'

http://rt.com/news/hamas-open-war-israel-694/

In the past 2 hours, Israel launched an airstike on a car travelling in Gaza. It was another targeted assassination, and this time they murdered a top Hamas official, and 5 others.

This is a game changer, and the next few hours and days are going to be brutal.

How much punishment can the Palestinians take, and how much longer can the world allow Israel to murder, steal and kidnap at will?
Probably not as long as they allow the Hamas animals to fire rockets at Israeli civilians.

Go get 'em IDF.   UNLEASH HELL
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2012, 06:02:56 PM
Hamas says now in 'open war' with Israel, promises 'gates of hell'

http://rt.com/news/hamas-open-war-israel-694/

In the past 2 hours, Israel launched an airstike on a car travelling in Gaza. It was another targeted assassination, and this time they murdered a top Hamas official, and 5 others.

This is a game changer, and the next few hours and days are going to be brutal.

How much punishment can the Palestinians take, and how much longer can the world allow Israel to murder, steal and kidnap at will?
Probably not as long as they allow the Hamas animals to fire rockets at Israeli civilians.

Go get 'em IDF.   UNLEASH HELL

Unleash hell and pay the bill at the ICC
Israel is all over the place concerning the palestinian application for UN observer status.
Even Jews have to face justice.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 14, 2012, 06:36:14 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G
You come on here every 15 minutes posting up details of the latest Israeli atrocity. You ignore any action by the Palestinians, such as:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20294335

http://news.yahoo.com/israel-kills-one-second-day-gaza-strikes-062552365.html

That's the result of a 10 second google search. I'm no expert on the middle east, but I recognise a complex, intractable historical conflict when I see one. You, on the other hand, see nothing but a story a child of 6 could understand, with good guys on one side and monsters on the others. Grow up, ffs!

From that BBC article:

"Israel says 11 rockets landed, one of which fell next to a house in Netivot. Several people were treated for shock.

Earlier, six Palestinians, including two militants, were killed in Israeli air strikes on Gaza, following an attack by militants on an army jeep."

Good one Myles, showing us just how proportional the Israeli actions are.
OK, I'll extend the google search to 20 seconds. From the Human Rights Watch report on 2011:
Palestinian armed groups in Gaza launched hundreds of rocket attacks at Israeli population centers in 2011, killing two civilians and seriously injuring at least nine others; indiscriminate mortar attacks seriously injured at least four civilians in Israel. Another attack fatally injured an Israeli youth in a school bus. Egyptian attackers whom Israel claimed operated in coordination with armed groups in Gaza crossed the Egyptian border and killed six Israeli civilians.

Hamas authorities carried out three judicial executions in 2011 after unfair military trials, and allegedly tortured scores of detainees, some of whom died in custody.

The Palestinian Authority's (PA) security services arbitrarily detained hundreds of Hamas supporters as well as politically unaffiliated protesters who supported the pro-democracy Arab Spring movements and reconciliation between Hamas and Fatah. The PA also arrested journalists who were critical of the authorities. Credible allegations of torture by the PA's security services continued.

http://www.hrw.org/world-report-2012/world-report-2012-israeloccupied-palestinian-territories

Plenty of stuff in there too about Israeli atrocities. I'm not defending them. I'm just saying it's not the black and white story GHD would have us believe.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 14, 2012, 06:38:54 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: give her dixie on November 14, 2012, 06:40:37 PM
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02398/gazaFire2_2398593d.jpg

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSysiqT4_YjWW65gBOH4cN3aRnlqCrgTJhBAXwiQ1wuG9GTSgcWNA
You come on here every 15 minutes posting up details of the latest Israeli atrocity. You ignore any action by the Palestinians, such as:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20294335

http://news.yahoo.com/israel-kills-one-second-day-gaza-strikes-062552365.html

That's the result of a 10 second google search. I'm no expert on the middle east, but I recognise a complex, intractable historical conflict when I see one. You, on the other hand, see nothing but a story a child of 6 could understand, with good guys on one side and monsters on the others. Grow up, ffs!


If you go back through the thread you will see that I only reported on the deaths in Gaza, and not on how many missiles and bullets that are fired at them. That would make the number of rockets pale in comparrison. No Israeli to the best of my knowledge has been killed by a rocket from Gaza this year.

You post a link to a story about rockets. Sure even a 6 year old would know that the headline is a lie:
"Israel says 79 rockets fired at it from Gaza"
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 14, 2012, 06:41:56 PM
Todays attacks from Israel have come as a direct result of the 150 rockets fired into Israel in the last week.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2012, 06:55:30 PM
Todays attacks from Israel have come as a direct result of the 150 rockets fired into Israel in the last week.
It's because there's an election coming up soon in Israel and Gaza needs a whupping. It happens every time the Jews vote.
That is the system that runs in Israel. Talk peace but depend on violence.  If Israel were to end the occupation there would be an intra Jewish civil war so it's easier to bomb the shit out of Gaza.

Israel turned into a sad Jewish state. It is very hard to believe that the people prayed for 19 centuries and ended up with  sociopaths like Netanyahu and Lieberman running the promised land. 
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 14, 2012, 07:28:24 PM
Todays attacks from Israel have come as a direct result of the 150 rockets fired into Israel in the last week.
It's because there's an election coming up soon in Israel and Gaza needs a whupping. It happens every time the Jews vote.
That is the system that runs in Israel. Talk peace but depend on violence.  If Israel were to end the occupation there would be an intra Jewish civil war so it's easier to bomb the shit out of Gaza.

Israel turned into a sad Jewish state. It is very hard to believe that the people prayed for 19 centuries and ended up with  sociopaths like Netanyahu and Lieberman running the promised land.

I don't think there is anyone on this board who talks a bigger load of aul balls than you.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 14, 2012, 07:36:53 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Hey Bibi, we sure fooled those Hamas scumbags into thinking we were more concerned about Syria.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2012, 08:00:48 PM
Todays attacks from Israel have come as a direct result of the 150 rockets fired into Israel in the last week.
It's because there's an election coming up soon in Israel and Gaza needs a whupping. It happens every time the Jews vote.
That is the system that runs in Israel. Talk peace but depend on violence.  If Israel were to end the occupation there would be an intra Jewish civil war so it's easier to bomb the shit out of Gaza.

Israel turned into a sad Jewish state. It is very hard to believe that the people prayed for 19 centuries and ended up with  sociopaths like Netanyahu and Lieberman running the promised land.

I don't think there is anyone on this board who talks a bigger load of aul balls than you.

Carlo Strenger knows what is happening

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/strenger-than-fiction/an-open-letter-to-akiva-eldar-looking-beyond-the-two-state-solution.premium-1.477593#

Maybe it will work in our favor: if we present Israel’s citizens with the details of a one-state solution, they might conceivably wake up. They might realize that they keep electing parties that lead them into catastrophe.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 14, 2012, 08:16:49 PM
To the "hard" man sending me the threatening pms, go f**k yerself.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2012, 08:34:08 PM
Israeli elections preceded by attacks on Gaza : 1955,1961
1981,1996,2009
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2012, 09:24:11 PM
This is Uri Avnery’s (Gush Shalom) first commentary:
 
Press Release 11/14/2012
 Avnery on the deliberate cynicism
 
Netanyahu and Barak have decided to deliberately violate a cease-fire which had just been stabilized.
At the price of great and ongoing suffering on both sides of the border, the government’s aim had been accomplished: social issues will be removed from the public agenda and the election campaign
 
“Binyamin Netanyahu and Ehud Barak have decided – for the second time in a row the State of Israel will conduct general elections under the shadow of war in the Gaza Strip. The cease-fire which already started to stabilize has been broken deliberately and shattered to pieces. The inhabitants of the communities of southern Israel, who just started to breathe freely, are sent right back to air raid alarms and to running to shelters” said former Knesset Member Uri Avnery of Gush Shalom.

“At the price of great suffering on both sides of the border, the government’s aim has been accomplished: the social issues, which threatened to assume prominence in these elections, have been pushed aside and removed from the agenda of the elections campaign. Forgotten, too, is the brave attempt of Mahmoud Abbas to address the Israeli public opinion. In the coming weeks, the headlines will be filled with constant war and death, destruction and bloodshed. When it ends at last, it will be revealed that no goal has been achieved and that the problems remain the same, or perhaps exacerbated. “
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2012, 09:36:22 PM
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-killed-its-subcontractor-in-gaza.premium-1.477886

Ahmed Jabari was a subcontractor, in charge of maintaining Israel's security in Gaza. This title will no doubt sound absurd to anyone who in the past several hours has heard Jabari described as "an arch-terrorist," "the terror chief of staff" or "our Bin Laden."

But that was the reality for the past five and a half years. Israel demanded of Hamas that it observe the truce in the south and enforce it on the multiplicity of armed organizations in the Gaza Strip. The man responsible for carrying out this policy was Ahmed Jabari.

In return for enforcing the quiet, which was never perfect, Israel funded the Hamas regime through the flow of shekels in armored trucks to banks in Gaza, and continued to supply infrastructure and medical services to the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip. Jabari was also Israel's partner in the negotiations for the release of Gilad Shalit; it was he who ensured the captive soldier's welfare and safety, and it was he saw to Shalit's return home last fall.
 
The assassination of Jabari will go down in history as another showy military action initiated by an outgoing government on the eve of an election.

This is what researcher Prof. Yagil Levy has called "fanning the conflict as an intra-state control strategy:" The external conflict helps a government strengthen its standing domestically because the public unites behind the army, and social and economic problems are edged off the national agenda.

This recipe is familiar from 1955, when David Ben-Gurion returned from his exile in Sde Boker and led the Israel Defense Forces to a retaliatory action in Gaza, and his party, Mapai, to victory in the election. (Barak recalled this period with nostalgia, when he spoke last week at a memorial for Moshe Dayan). Ever since, whenever the ruling party feels threatened at the ballot box, it puts its finger on the trigger. The examples are common knowledge: the launch of the Shavit 2 missile in the summer of 1961, in the midst of the Lavon affair; the bombing of the Iraqi reactor in 1981; Operation Grapes of Wrath in Lebanon in 1996, and Operation Cast Lead in Gaza on the eve of the 2009 election. In the two latter cases, the military action turned into a defeat in the election.

There is a disagreement among historians as to whether it is necessary to add the Yom Kippur War to the list. In that conflict, which broke out on the eve of the 1973 election, the Arabs fired first, but their decision to go to war was taken in the context of the increasingly extreme position of Prime Minister Golda Meir's government ¬ which had refused Egyptian President Anwar Sadat's peace offer and declared an expansion of Israeli settlements in Sinai.

This, for example, is the opinion of researchers Prof. Motti Golani and Shoshana Ishoni-Barri.

The current operation, Pillar of Cloud, belongs in the same category. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is interested in neutralizing every possible rival, and Defense Minister Ehud Barak is fighting for enough votes to return to the Knesset. A war against Hamas will wipe out the electoral aspirations of the ditherer, Ehud Olmert, whose disciples expected him to announce his candidacy this evening ¬ and it will kick off the agenda the "social and economic issue" that serves the Labor Party headed by MK Shelly Yacimovich.
 

Israel is a madhouse
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 14, 2012, 09:40:53 PM
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-killed-its-subcontractor-in-gaza.premium-1.477886

Ahmed Jabari was a subcontractor, in charge of maintaining Israel's security in Gaza. This title will no doubt sound absurd to anyone who in the past several hours has heard Jabari described as "an arch-terrorist," "the terror chief of staff" or "our Bin Laden."

But that was the reality for the past five and a half years. Israel demanded of Hamas that it observe the truce in the south and enforce it on the multiplicity of armed organizations in the Gaza Strip. The man responsible for carrying out this policy was Ahmed Jabari.

In return for enforcing the quiet, which was never perfect, Israel funded the Hamas regime through the flow of shekels in armored trucks to banks in Gaza, and continued to supply infrastructure and medical services to the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip. Jabari was also Israel's partner in the negotiations for the release of Gilad Shalit; it was he who ensured the captive soldier's welfare and safety, and it was he saw to Shalit's return home last fall.
 
The assassination of Jabari will go down in history as another showy military action initiated by an outgoing government on the eve of an election.

This is what researcher Prof. Yagil Levy has called "fanning the conflict as an intra-state control strategy:" The external conflict helps a government strengthen its standing domestically because the public unites behind the army, and social and economic problems are edged off the national agenda.

This recipe is familiar from 1955, when David Ben-Gurion returned from his exile in Sde Boker and led the Israel Defense Forces to a retaliatory action in Gaza, and his party, Mapai, to victory in the election. (Barak recalled this period with nostalgia, when he spoke last week at a memorial for Moshe Dayan). Ever since, whenever the ruling party feels threatened at the ballot box, it puts its finger on the trigger. The examples are common knowledge: the launch of the Shavit 2 missile in the summer of 1961, in the midst of the Lavon affair; the bombing of the Iraqi reactor in 1981; Operation Grapes of Wrath in Lebanon in 1996, and Operation Cast Lead in Gaza on the eve of the 2009 election. In the two latter cases, the military action turned into a defeat in the election.

There is a disagreement among historians as to whether it is necessary to add the Yom Kippur War to the list. In that conflict, which broke out on the eve of the 1973 election, the Arabs fired first, but their decision to go to war was taken in the context of the increasingly extreme position of Prime Minister Golda Meir's government ¬ which had refused Egyptian President Anwar Sadat's peace offer and declared an expansion of Israeli settlements in Sinai.

This, for example, is the opinion of researchers Prof. Motti Golani and Shoshana Ishoni-Barri.

The current operation, Pillar of Cloud, belongs in the same category. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is interested in neutralizing every possible rival, and Defense Minister Ehud Barak is fighting for enough votes to return to the Knesset. A war against Hamas will wipe out the electoral aspirations of the ditherer, Ehud Olmert, whose disciples expected him to announce his candidacy this evening ¬ and it will kick off the agenda the "social and economic issue" that serves the Labor Party headed by MK Shelly Yacimovich.
 

Israel is a madhouse

 ::)
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 14, 2012, 10:08:55 PM
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02398/gazaFire2_2398593d.jpg

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSysiqT4_YjWW65gBOH4cN3aRnlqCrgTJhBAXwiQ1wuG9GTSgcWNA
You come on here every 15 minutes posting up details of the latest Israeli atrocity. You ignore any action by the Palestinians, such as:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20294335

http://news.yahoo.com/israel-kills-one-second-day-gaza-strikes-062552365.html

That's the result of a 10 second google search. I'm no expert on the middle east, but I recognise a complex, intractable historical conflict when I see one. You, on the other hand, see nothing but a story a child of 6 could understand, with good guys on one side and monsters on the others. Grow up, ffs!


If you go back through the thread you will see that I only reported on the deaths in Gaza, and not on how many missiles and bullets that are fired at them. That would make the number of rockets pale in comparrison. No Israeli to the best of my knowledge has been killed by a rocket from Gaza.

You post a link to a story about rockets. Sure even a 6 year old would know that the headline is a lie:
"Israel says 79 rockets fired at it from Gaza"
Why does that not surprise me? (the bit about your knowledge, I mean).
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on November 14, 2012, 10:12:31 PM
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02398/gazaFire2_2398593d.jpg

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSysiqT4_YjWW65gBOH4cN3aRnlqCrgTJhBAXwiQ1wuG9GTSgcWNA
You come on here every 15 minutes posting up details of the latest Israeli atrocity. You ignore any action by the Palestinians, such as:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20294335

http://news.yahoo.com/israel-kills-one-second-day-gaza-strikes-062552365.html

That's the result of a 10 second google search. I'm no expert on the middle east, but I recognise a complex, intractable historical conflict when I see one. You, on the other hand, see nothing but a story a child of 6 could understand, with good guys on one side and monsters on the others. Grow up, ffs!


If you go back through the thread you will see that I only reported on the deaths in Gaza, and not on how many missiles and bullets that are fired at them. That would make the number of rockets pale in comparrison. No Israeli to the best of my knowledge has been killed by a rocket from Gaza.

You post a link to a story about rockets. Sure even a 6 year old would know that the headline is a lie:
"Israel says 79 rockets fired at it from Gaza"
Why does that not surprise me? (the bit about your knowledge, I mean).
More people die in Israel from pea nut allergies than rockets from Gaza.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 14, 2012, 10:20:57 PM
More Irishmen were killed by the IRA, than the Brits (1969 - 1994).
Who's the bad guy?
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on November 14, 2012, 10:44:20 PM
Some very bad pictures coming out of Palestine tonight this little girl was one of the zionist victims.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: boojangles on November 14, 2012, 10:49:01 PM
Some very bad pictures coming out of Palestine tonight this little girl was one of the zionist victims.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Spotted with a rocket launcher no doubt.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 14, 2012, 11:02:56 PM
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02398/gazaFire2_2398593d.jpg

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSysiqT4_YjWW65gBOH4cN3aRnlqCrgTJhBAXwiQ1wuG9GTSgcWNA
You come on here every 15 minutes posting up details of the latest Israeli atrocity. You ignore any action by the Palestinians, such as:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20294335

http://news.yahoo.com/israel-kills-one-second-day-gaza-strikes-062552365.html

That's the result of a 10 second google search. I'm no expert on the middle east, but I recognise a complex, intractable historical conflict when I see one. You, on the other hand, see nothing but a story a child of 6 could understand, with good guys on one side and monsters on the others. Grow up, ffs!


If you go back through the thread you will see that I only reported on the deaths in Gaza, and not on how many missiles and bullets that are fired at them. That would make the number of rockets pale in comparrison. No Israeli to the best of my knowledge has been killed by a rocket from Gaza.

You post a link to a story about rockets. Sure even a 6 year old would know that the headline is a lie:
"Israel says 79 rockets fired at it from Gaza"
Why does that not surprise me? (the bit about your knowledge, I mean).
More people die in Israel from pea nut allergies than rockets from Gaza.
I've seen that line hundreds of times. Every time I see it, I ask the writer / speaker to provide some evidence to back it up. What've you got?
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: give her dixie on November 15, 2012, 12:01:25 AM
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02398/gazaFire2_2398593d.jpg

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSysiqT4_YjWW65gBOH4cN3aRnlqCrgTJhBAXwiQ1wuG9GTSgcWNA
You come on here every 15 minutes posting up details of the latest Israeli atrocity. You ignore any action by the Palestinians, such as:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20294335

http://news.yahoo.com/israel-kills-one-second-day-gaza-strikes-062552365.html

That's the result of a 10 second google search. I'm no expert on the middle east, but I recognise a complex, intractable historical conflict when I see one. You, on the other hand, see nothing but a story a child of 6 could understand, with good guys on one side and monsters on the others. Grow up, ffs!


If you go back through the thread you will see that I only reported on the deaths in Gaza, and not on how many missiles and bullets that are fired at them. That would make the number of rockets pale in comparrison. No Israeli to the best of my knowledge has been killed by a rocket from Gaza this year.

You post a link to a story about rockets. Sure even a 6 year old would know that the headline is a lie:
"Israel says 79 rockets fired at it from Gaza"
Why does that not surprise me? (the bit about your knowledge, I mean).

Sorry, typo. I meant killed this year.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 15, 2012, 12:07:39 AM
Israeli elections preceded by attacks on Gaza : 1955,1961
1981,1996,2009
Israeli elections preceded by attacks from pals......

Every f**kin one of them.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: give her dixie on November 15, 2012, 12:24:18 AM
It's fair to say that the tension has been raised to a level not seen in 4 years in Gaza since Cast Lead.
Israel has once again used the Palestinians in Gaza as an election issue. Pure evil.

For hours today F16's Drones, and Apache helicopters roamed the skies of Gaza. 8 people were killed and over 50 injured. Among tthe dead was an 11 month old daughter of a BBC Arabic reporter.

Ahmed Jabari was a high ranking Hamas leader and his death today, along with the others, has sparked what will be a brutal few days ahead.

As expected, the US State Dept backed Israel and their right to defend themselves. No mention on how the Palestinians have any right to defend themselves from settlers.

Israel have been itching to launch something big on Gaza for a while now. They took the opportunity of the US election results and their own upcoming election to go mental once again.

Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 15, 2012, 12:27:33 AM
Again the lies continue. Where are the settlers in Gaza?

LIAR
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: theskull1 on November 15, 2012, 01:39:58 AM
Ball DB

Are you even remotely interested in GAA? ALL of your contributions on this site are related to this conflict. Is the israeli lobby rich enough to pay for trolls on meaningless forums like this?
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 15, 2012, 01:43:31 AM
Sorry, my mistake. I thought this was the non GAA section.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: theskull1 on November 15, 2012, 01:53:58 AM
 ::)

So you join a GAA forum solely to post about a single topic (more or less) in the non GAA section.    ???

Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: dec on November 15, 2012, 03:25:59 AM
::)

So you join a GAA forum solely to post about a single topic (more or less) in the non GAA section.    ???

He joined in 2006.

His first post on the middle east was this thread.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 15, 2012, 03:34:12 AM
You should have let him figure that out for himself.


I don't have to justify myself to anyone. If you don't agree with my argument, then counter it. Play the ball, not the man.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2012, 06:27:19 AM
Israeli elections preceded by attacks on Gaza : 1955,1961
1981,1996,2009
Israeli elections preceded by attacks from pals......

Every f**kin one of them.
what are pals? Isn't it a dog food?
You crack me up. You don't have the tribal paranoia required to make a proper hasbara bot. You have the words but it all falls short.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 15, 2012, 07:37:13 AM

Three Killed in Grad Rocket Attack on Kiryat Malachi

IDF troops are on alert as the funeral for top Hamas terrorist Ahmed Jaabari takes place
 

AAFont Size
 By David Lev
First Publish: 11/15/2012, 7:38 AM
 

Mendy Gil
 

At least three people killed Thursday morning when a Grad rocket hit an apartment building in Kiryat Malachi. Five other people were injured in the attack, with three in serious to critical condition. Rescue teams hurried to the scene to treat the injured, who were taken for treatment in a Beersheva hospital. Among the injured was a two year old baby. Sources said that the buiding hit by the rocket was in the Chabad neighborhood of the city.
 
Initial reports said that one person had been killed, with at least five injured, three of them critically. Israel Radio said that lifesaving teams had attempted to revive the critically injured, but declared two of them dead when the attempts failed. The five were among a large group that had taken refuge in an old building that suffered a direct hit from a Grad rocket. Rescue teams were trying to remove victims of the attack from the rubble, and were preparing for the possibility of more casualties, Magen David Adom officials said.
 
A heavy barrage of Grad and Katyusha rockets was fired at the main population centers in southern Israel Thursday morning. Red Alert warnings were heard in Ashdod, Ashkelon, Kiryat Malachi, Beersheva, and Ofakim. Speaking live from Beersheva at around 8:00 AM Israel time, Israel Radio's correspondent counted at least a dozen missiles hitting in the area of the city. The IDF said that several of the rockets fired at Ashdod and Ashkelon were intercepted by the Iron Dome rocket interception system.
 
IDF officials expected the barrage to continue throughout Thursday morning, as Gazans prepare to bury Ahmed Jaabari, commander of Hamas's "military" terror wing, who was eliminated Wednesday night, takes place. The IDF was on alert throughout the country, saying that terror activity was likely to increase, with possible rioting by Arabs in PA controlled areas of Judea and Samaria, and a strong likelihood that terrorists would attempt to kidnap IDF soldiers or Israeli civilians.
 
The IDF eliminated three Hamas terrorists early Thursday, Israel Radio said, as Gaza Arab terrorists continued to hammer Israeli towns and villages with rockets. Several rockets were fired at the Be'ersheva and Ofakim areas on Thursday morning. The three were members of Hamas' military wing, the IDF said. Since midnight Wednesday, about 30 rockets were fired at Israeli targets, for a total of over 110 since the beginning of the Pillar of Defense operation Wednesday night.
 
The UN Security Council, at an emergency closed session, discussed the situation in Gaza without coming to any decisions. But during the meeting, U.S. Ambassador to the UN strongly defended Israel, saying that said there was no justification for the violence that "Hamas and other terrorist organizations" are aiming at Israel.
 
“We call on those responsible to stop these cowardly acts immediately,” Rice said, adding that the rocket attacks were harming efforts to end the Middle East conflict and create a PA state. “Hamas claims to have the best interests of the Palestinian people at heart, yet it continues to engage in violence that does nothing but set back the Palestinian cause," said the US ambassador, who is considered a frontrunner to become the next US secretary of state. "Attacking Israel on a near daily basis does nothing to help Palestinians in Gaza nor to move the Palestinian people any closer to achieving self determination and independence," Rice said.
 
The IDF reported that it had destroyed dozens of rocket launching pads and hundreds of weapons in Gaza overnight, including many long-range missiles that Israeli officials fear could be fired at the Tel Aviv area. On Thursday morning, IDF planes dropped tens of thousands of flyers over Gaza cities and towns, warning civilians to stay away from Hamas terror bases and rocket-launching sites, lest they be caught up in an Israeli attack on a legitimate target.


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/162111 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/162111)


Maybe there was a meeting of the Israeli joint chiefs of staff in the building, and thats why it was targetted. But then again, maybe it was just because they were jews, any jews.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 15, 2012, 07:46:51 AM
what are pals? Isn't it a dog food?
You crack me up. You don't have the tribal paranoia required to make a proper hasbara bot. You have the words but it all falls short.
Decisions, decisions. Do I play the ball, or do I play the man?  ::)

If your argument stacks up, then so be it, but you obviously don't think it does, so have to resort to petty name calling.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 15, 2012, 07:59:25 AM

Fighting Terror While Minimizing Harm to Gaza Civilians

In wake of the battle against terror, the IDF is emphasizing via the media and the web that much effort is made to avoid civilian casualties
 

AAFont Size
 By Yoni Kempinski
First Publish: 11/15/2012, 9:01 AM
 



In wake of the current IDF operation against terror, the Israeli army is emphasizing through the media and the Internet that it is doing its utmost to avoid civilian casualties when striking back against the Hamas terror organization. The IDF is placing recorded telephone calls, dropping warning leaflets and even diverting missiles mid-flight if civilians are spotted in the line of fire.
 

On Thursday morning, the army dispersed leaflets above several locations in the Gaza Strip. These leaflets warn the residents of the Gaza Strip to stay away from Hamas, and other terror organizations’, operatives and facilities that pose a risk to their safety.
 


The IDF Spokesman Unit explains that the leaflets stress that Hamas is dragging the region toward violence, and that the IDF is prepared to defend the residents of the State of Israel until quiet is restored to the region:
 
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"For your own safety, take responsibility for yourselves and avoid being present in the vicinity of Hamas operatives and facilities and those of other terror organizations that pose a risk to your safety. Hamas is once again dragging the region to violence and bloodshed. The IDF is determined to defend the residents of the State of Israel. This announcement is valid until quiet is restored to the region. Israel Defense Forces Command.”
 

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/162112 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/162112)

Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2012, 08:36:25 AM
what are pals? Isn't it a dog food?
You crack me up. You don't have the tribal paranoia required to make a proper hasbara bot. You have the words but it all falls short.
Decisions, decisions. Do I play the ball, or do I play the man?  ::)

If your argument stacks up, then so be it, but you obviously don't think it does, so have to resort to petty name calling.
You are wearing the wrong equipment.
It's senior hurling and you run onto the pitch in a pair of budgie smugglers.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2012, 08:40:55 AM
BDB

Keep the IDF spin coming. It's gas. 
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: trileacman on November 15, 2012, 09:32:27 AM
BDB

Keep the IDF spin coming. It's gas.

The death of 3 Israeli civilians isn't "spin". If you condemn the deaths of Palestinian civilians then this must be condemned also, otherwise you are nothing but a mirror image of your enemy.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2012, 10:03:14 AM
BDB

Keep the IDF spin coming. It's gas.

The death of 3 Israeli civilians isn't "spin". If you condemn the deaths of Palestinian civilians then this must be condemned also, otherwise you are nothing but a mirror image of your enemy.
3 dead Israelis isn't spin but the rest of his stuff is.
The IDF wants to minimise casulaties- WTF.

RIP for the 3 dead Jews. 
But they died for the greater good of a Likud election victory.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: trileacman on November 15, 2012, 10:11:57 AM
I used to support the Palestinians in their struggle but the fanaticism on this thread makes it hard to keep it up. Even there you couldn't condemn the deaths of Israeli's without a cheap dig.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2012, 10:20:01 AM
I used to support the Palestinians in their struggle but the fanaticism on this thread makes it hard to keep it up. Even there you couldn't condemn the deaths of Israeli's without a cheap dig.

I'm not surprised that Israelis were killed today.   
There is no military solution to the problem. Every death in the conflict is pointless.
But Israelis are not interested in changing the status quo either. The whole thing is a dysfunctional system.
The system says Jews are superior to Palestinians and only Jews have the right to live in Greater Israel.
If Palestinians are driven to nihilism maybe the system needs another look. Killing Jews won't solve anything. it's counterproductive as well as wrong but the whole thing is FUBR.   


It's far worse than Sunningdale for slow learners. Hamas are useless but they are no worse than Israel's leaders.

Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Hardy on November 15, 2012, 10:21:33 AM
People "weren't surprised" David Black was killed either. Others condemned the killing.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2012, 10:35:59 AM
People "weren't surprised" David Black was killed either. Others condemned the killing.

I don't think killing anyone for political reasons is justified Hardy. Maybe it would help to say that Gaza is more like a drugs feud than anything else.

Norn Irn is run on the basis of the rule of law.  Gaza isn't. There is no court for Gazans who are killed by Israel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTaPGAvEdF0

Perhaps there will be if the Palestinians get a majority at the UN vote on observer status. That would allow them to bring Israeli war criminals to the ICC.   
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Nally Stand on November 15, 2012, 10:43:13 AM
I used to support the Palestinians in their struggle but the fanaticism on this thread makes it hard to keep it up. Even there you couldn't condemn the deaths of Israeli's without a cheap dig.

So your level of commitment to supporting the people of Palestine is chiefly determined by what some Galway fella writes on a discussion forum?  :o
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Nally Stand on November 15, 2012, 10:44:36 AM
I don't think killing anyone for political reasons is justified

Ever?
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: trileacman on November 15, 2012, 11:00:13 AM
I used to support the Palestinians in their struggle but the fanaticism on this thread makes it hard to keep it up. Even there you couldn't condemn the deaths of Israeli's without a cheap dig.

So your level of commitment to supporting the people of Palestine is chiefly determined by what some Galway fella writes on a discussion forum?  :o

When you see the type of rhetoric you are associating with it can be hard to associate yourself with the same, yes. Similar to people losing faith in militant republicanism when it commits to drive by shootings of prison officers along the M1.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: trileacman on November 15, 2012, 11:06:37 AM
I used to support the Palestinians in their struggle but the fanaticism on this thread makes it hard to keep it up. Even there you couldn't condemn the deaths of Israeli's without a cheap dig.

I'm not surprised that Israelis were killed today.   
There is no military solution to the problem. Every death in the conflict is pointless.
But Israelis are not interested in changing the status quo either. The whole thing is a dysfunctional system.
The system says Jews are superior to Palestinians and only Jews have the right to live in Greater Israel.
If Palestinians are driven to nihilism maybe the system needs another look. Killing Jews won't solve anything. it's counterproductive as well as wrong but the whole thing is FUBR.   


It's far worse than Sunningdale for slow learners. Hamas are useless but they are no worse than Israel's leaders.
The exact same rhetoric is used by the anti-Zionist side which regularly calls for the destruction of Israel. No-one here is saying that Hamas are worse than the Israeli leaders but a balanced opinion now and again such as that last post wouldn't go amiss.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Nally Stand on November 15, 2012, 11:14:03 AM
I used to support the Palestinians in their struggle but the fanaticism on this thread makes it hard to keep it up. Even there you couldn't condemn the deaths of Israeli's without a cheap dig.

So your level of commitment to supporting the people of Palestine is chiefly determined by what some Galway fella writes on a discussion forum?  :o

When you see the type of rhetoric you are associating with it can be hard to associate yourself with the same, yes. Similar to people losing faith in militant republicanism when it commits to drive by shootings of prison officers along the M1.

OK, so when it comes to forming your opinions, Seafoids writings carry equal weight as people who shoot prison guards?  ???

I just never though you were the type of person who would be so easily led that you would change your outlook on a major world conflict solely because of what some lad in Galway wrote on a gaa forum!
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2012, 11:23:17 AM
I used to support the Palestinians in their struggle but the fanaticism on this thread makes it hard to keep it up. Even there you couldn't condemn the deaths of Israeli's without a cheap dig.

I'm not surprised that Israelis were killed today.   
There is no military solution to the problem. Every death in the conflict is pointless.
But Israelis are not interested in changing the status quo either. The whole thing is a dysfunctional system.
The system says Jews are superior to Palestinians and only Jews have the right to live in Greater Israel.
If Palestinians are driven to nihilism maybe the system needs another look. Killing Jews won't solve anything. it's counterproductive as well as wrong but the whole thing is FUBR.   


It's far worse than Sunningdale for slow learners. Hamas are useless but they are no worse than Israel's leaders.
The exact same rhetoric is used by the anti-Zionist side which regularly calls for the destruction of Israel. No-one here is saying that Hamas are worse than the Israeli leaders but a balanced opinion now and again such as that last post wouldn't go amiss.
Trileacman

Have a look at this interview with a senior Israeli minister.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPVTC9frqMA

It's not some dispute over a field. Do the Palestinians have the right to live in "Greater Israel".

A senior member of Netanyahu's government says they don't. Apartheid is what they have and if they don't like it they can f*** off.   

There isn't going to be a Palestinian state. Why not? 
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 15, 2012, 04:18:37 PM
To read some of the bull on this thread you would think Israel are just firing at will at the civilians of Gaza. They aren't. Hamas and it's allies are firing indiscriminately into Israel, with the hope that they kill as many jews as possible. Israel are specifically targetting known senior terrorist members, weapons caches and firing points for rockets. All of these are using the civilian population of Gaza as cover.
If Israel just wanted to kill as many pals as possible, then it could use some of it's considerable weaponry at their disposal, not just the odd missile at a moving car.
Civilian casualties are deeply regretted, and should be avoided, but sometimes they are unavoidable. The strike on     al jabari is a good example of how Israel target these people. His car was allowed to reach the junction (the widest point) to minimise the number of civilians in the area.
If Israel were to fire indiscriminately at unarmed civilians, I would have no hesitation in condeming them for it, as I have in the past. If the pals were to target only military targets in their rocket attacks, I could not condem them for it. They don't. They only target civilians, and as long as they do that then I will continue to demonise these vile pieces of filth as the murdering scum they are.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 15, 2012, 04:26:03 PM

Miraculous Recovery by Injured Gaza Man?

Pallywood is in high gear as Gazans dupe BBC viewers in time-honored style.
 

AAFont Size
 By Gil Ronen
First Publish: 11/15/2012, 5:25 PM
 




Barely one day into the fighting in Hamas-run Gaza, the locals are hard at work playing the victim for the world's press.
 
Footage from the BBC captured by watchdog group Honest Reporting shows a heavy man lying on the ground and being carried away by residents, apparently after being injured by an Israeli attack.
 
Moments later, that same man again fills the frame, except he is walking about and obviously unhurt.
 
The widespread staging of such victim situations is a favored tactic of Arabs fighting Israel and has come to be known as "Pallywood." Because Israel is stronger militarily, the Arabs cling to the underdog image of poor refugees under occupation and siege by evil Israelis, thus eliciting sympathy.
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kvaUmIB87-M

Welcome to the wonderful world of Pallywood, where everyone is a victim.


Don't believe everything you are told about the Israelis, and certainly don't believe everything you see.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2012, 04:38:56 PM

Miraculous Recovery by Injured Gaza Man?

Pallywood is in high gear as Gazans dupe BBC viewers in time-honored style.
 

AAFont Size
 By Gil Ronen
First Publish: 11/15/2012, 5:25 PM
 




Barely one day into the fighting in Hamas-run Gaza, the locals are hard at work playing the victim for the world's press.
 
Footage from the BBC captured by watchdog group Honest Reporting shows a heavy man lying on the ground and being carried away by residents, apparently after being injured by an Israeli attack.
 
Moments later, that same man again fills the frame, except he is walking about and obviously unhurt.
 
The widespread staging of such victim situations is a favored tactic of Arabs fighting Israel and has come to be known as "Pallywood." Because Israel is stronger militarily, the Arabs cling to the underdog image of poor refugees under occupation and siege by evil Israelis, thus eliciting sympathy.
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kvaUmIB87-M

Welcome to the wonderful world of Pallywood, where everyone is a victim.


Don't believe everything you are told about the Israelis, and certainly don't believe everything you see.
It's obviously the Messiah ! 

TBH this Israeli propaganda is sick when Israel is  killing civilians in Gaza.

And when a whole people is denied basic rights because they aren't Jewish , because they weren't chosen by God, they are all victims.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 15, 2012, 04:47:41 PM
I see you have the sense not to deny it. Thats a good boy, you're learning.  ;)
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: fitzroyalty on November 15, 2012, 04:59:51 PM
Anyone siding with the Israelis need their f**king head looked at.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2012, 05:02:13 PM
I see you have the sense not to deny it. Thats a good boy, you're learning.  ;)
I presume its BS like most hasbara. Even if it were true it won't keep Israeli commanders away from the ICC
 when TSHTF .
the notion that Israel is a normal country that just wants peace is ludicrous.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2012, 05:08:10 PM
So Gaza was Israel's gift to Obama before his inauguration, and now upon his reelection. "Obama do you enjoy when Israel takes a [expletive deleted] in your lap after you win election to the most powerful office on Earth?" Scott Roth tweeted, while Ian Bremmer reported the inevitable news from the president's news conference:
Israel the most mentioned country in the Pres Debate on Foreign Policy. Israel & Gaza go to war and no questions in press conf. #irony
— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) November 14, 2012
They hear America loud and clear in the West Bank, and it is the sound of indifference; and the bully goes wild once again.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2012, 05:13:35 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/15/israel-gaza-militants-deadly-exchanges-live?commentpage=last#end-of-comments

The White House spokesman Jay Carney has condemned the rocket fire from Gaza, saying there is "no justification" for Hamas's violence. He called on those responsible to stop the "cowardly acts" immediately.
Carney said Hamas claimed to have the best interests of the Palestinians at heart, but its use of violence was counterproductive to the Palestianian cause, the Associated Press reports.


Last year..


The Secretary General of the UN asked Abbas to abandon any further action on his statehood bid after the US defunded UNESCO. The Secretary General is part of one of the major organs of the UN, the Secretariat. After the UNESCO vote, he has no choice other than to accept treaty instruments from Palestine, like every other State. If he or the UN Treaty Organization extend the rights reserved for a State to Palestine, they risk loosing their funding from the US government.

The US and EU have been blocking action on the Advisory Opinion and dozens of fact finding mission reports concerning war crimesand crimes against humanity. They have also been blocking the criminal complaint that Palestine filed with the ICC and resisting efforts to reconvene the Geneva Conference of High Contracting Parties to take action on the 2004 ICJ Advisory Opinion. For example, when Palestine asked for membership in the UN, the US promised to veto the application and lobbied the other members of the Security Council to withhold support.

http://www.haaretz.com/misc/iphone-article/israel-palestinian-economy-not-stable-enough-for-independent-state-1.419358

Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 15, 2012, 05:26:12 PM
Would you buy a poppy? No, because you know where some of the money it raises goes to people you don't want it to go to.
The Yanks don't want any of their money going to a state they can't trust to use it properly.

It's not that f**king hard to understand.  ::)
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2012, 05:35:13 PM
Would you buy a poppy? No, because you know where some of the money it raises goes to people you don't want it to go to.
The Yanks don't want any of their money going to a state they can't trust to use it properly.

It's not that f**king hard to understand.  ::)
It's not about money. It's about the US doing everything it can to deny the Palestinians a state.
It's about the power and the autism of the Jewish lobby

for something that is "not that f**king hard to understand" how did you miss it ?  8)

Here's another example

Ms Nuland is White house Press secretary.


QUESTION: So the next time Human Rights Watch comes out with a report that’s critical of Israel for its treatment of the Palestinians, I’ll assume that you’re going to be saying the same thing, correct; that you think that the report is credible, it’s based on eyewitness accounts?
MS. NULAND: As --
QUESTION: And you’re not going to say that it’s politically motivated and should be dismissed?
MS. NULAND: Matt, as you have made clear again and again in this room, we are not always consistent.
Goyal.
QUESTION: So, in other words, anything that Human Rights Watch says that is critical of someone you don’t like, that’s okay; but once they criticize someone that you do like, then it’s not worth the paper it’s printed on?
MS. NULAND: Matt, I’m not going to get into colloquy on this one.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2012, 10:48:00 PM
Ha'aretz reporting that a rocket that landed in a West Bank Jewish settlement was fired from the Sinai in Egypt. If this is true then Israel's monopoly on the use of violence to get its way has been challenged and their famous "deterrence" is no longer working. 

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/live-blog-rockets-slam-into-israel-s-south-in-third-day-of-idf-operation-in-gaza-1.478193#article_comments

9:13 P.M. Rockets fired from direction of Egypt toward Eshkol Regional Council (Haaretz)

11:07 P.M.The Israeli cabinet approved the request of Defense Minister Ehud Barak to call-up 75,000 additional reservists. The draft order is due to take effect within a few hours. During Operation Cast Lead, some 10,000 reservists were drafted and during the Second Lebanon War, some 60,000 reservists were drafted.


Will they go into Egypt ?

It looks like Netanyahu's gamble of assassinating someone in Gaza for a poll jump may have turned into something much worse. 

Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on November 17, 2012, 02:18:46 AM
After seeing countless pictures of dead children from Gaza tonight I thought a bout Netanyahu and his war criminals. How come they get to live? For something they instigated. While innocent people some only little innocent babies, some still in there mothers womb have to die a horrendous death. There only crime being they were born into a different culture that the "might is right" abhor ed. Would it be hard for the Palestinians to get at the right people who are directly responsible for there sufferings? 
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 17, 2012, 04:11:21 AM

Children of Slain Chabad Woman in Better Condition

The husband and children of Mirah Scharf are in better condition Friday after suffering wounds in the rocket attack that took her life.
 

AAFont Size
 By Maayana Miskin
First Publish: 11/16/2012, 2:09 PM
 

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Mirah Scharf (right)

Courtesy of the family
 

The husband and children of Mirah Scharf are in better condition Friday after being wounded Thursday morning in a rocket attack on Kiryat Malachi.

The four remain hospitalized in Tel Hashomer. Father Shmuel, 29, is in moderate condition, four-year-old Yosef Yitzchak is in moderate to light condition, and young Hana (2) and Geula (8 months) are both in good condition.
 
The children have not yet been told that their mother was killed in the attack.

The Scharf family was in Israel temporarily, and normally lives in New Delhi, India, where they serve as Chabad emissaries and usually host 100 people for Sabbath meals.

They were intending to attend a memorial ceremony Thursday for Gavriel and Rivka Holtzberg, the young Chabad couple murdered by terrorists four years ago in Mumbai, India.

Mirah Scharf was killed in the attack, as were Ahron Smadja, 49, and Yitzchak Amsallem, 24. Her funeral Thursday was attended by many of the Israeli backpackers who met her in India.

Her father-in-law, Rabbi Yehoshua Scharf, recalled her as devoted to her work. “In our generation everyone is looking for luxury, but they lived in minimalist conditions in a Chabad house that was open to the public 24 hours a day,” he said.



Just in case you're wondering, her children were yards away from her when she was murdered, narrowly missing death. But that doesn't matter, does it? Only palestinian kids get killed, don't they.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: give her dixie on November 17, 2012, 09:34:24 AM
Well, as expected the past few days have been brutal. 40 Palestinians killed, and over 350 injured, many seriously. Countless buildings and infrastructure destroyed, and fear and panic instilled in 1.6 million people. 3 Israeli's have also been killed and others injured. And to top it off, Israel have called up 75,000 reservists to go along with their existing army and are seriously threatening a ground invasion that will be nothing short of a blood bath.

Israel have been itching for a chance to attack Gaza again. They have bid their time following Cast Lead 4 years ago. The general feeling in Israel is that they didn't go far enough the last time. Plus, they got off Scott Free for killing 1,400 people in 22 days. 400 were children.

So, when they executed Jabari last Wednesday, they knew that it would stoke the flames and that Hamas would have no option but to retaliate with rockets, and then they would have the excuse to go into Gaza full bore. Boy have they gone in. As I type this, over 200 missiles have rained down on Gaza since midnight, killing 8 and injuring scores of others. Over 1,000 in total since Wednesday.

Unsurprisingly, the US and the UK have given their full support to Israel in this latest round of attacks. Arnt they 2 great nations sitting back and giving the green light for the murder of men women and children locked up in the worlds largest prison by the 4th best equipped army in the world who also happen to have 500 undeclared nuclear weapons. What beacons of humanity and democracy they really are.

As the past few days have gone by, one Israeli spokesperson after another has been on the airwaves spouting the same lies over and over again. However, day by day, as the truth emerges from Gaza, they are been shown up for what they are. Not human.

It is also worth bearing in mind that Hamas are a democratically elected Government in Gaza. Israel is directly targeting the leadership, and have destroyed several of the main Government buildings. Their homes have been destroyed, and everyone is a target. Targeting the democratically elected Government of 1.6 million people is beyond belief. Democracy eh?

To be honest, Israel have manufactured this whole thing knowing full well the consequences. They are testing and teasing a number of countries with their behavior, chiefly Iran. Add to this Egypt and their new Government, Turkey, Tunisia, Lebannon, and Qatar and it is a messy mix.

The Egyptian Prime Minister visited Gaza yesterday. While they were visiting a hospital, bodies of young children were brought in following an airstrike on their home. Today, 12 members of the Tunisian Government have arrived. The Government building they were to meet in was destroyed after the Egyptian Prime Minister met the Hamas Government. Just hours before the Tunisian ministers arrived today, Israel destroyed a school they built. Israel made sure to show them what they are capable of, and how much they respect them.

4 years ago as Gaza was been pulverised, no journalists were allowed in, and Egypt closed the gates at Rafah. Today, it's a different story. Plus, twitter and facebook have been red hot over the past few days where images and video are been shared and viewed instantly. The images emerging from Gaza are absolutely horrific and heartbreaking. The main stream media are not trusted as their biased reporting is exposed.

The next 24 hours are going to be crucial. Will Israel invade or not. If they do, they will no doubt go in full tilt. The consequences will be many as it will draw in the above mentioned countries who will not sit idly by this time around if Gaza is attacked. Israel knows this, and if they can get to Iran this way, they will play the game. Because that is what all this is to them as they carry out their plans to take all of the Palestinian land. This time though, they might have bit off more than they can handle........

Sadly though, a lot of people will die and get injured on both sides while a lunatic army continues its aggression on a defenseless people.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: JimStynes on November 17, 2012, 09:44:11 AM
What is the best website to follow what is really going on?
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Minder on November 17, 2012, 10:33:26 AM
RNU fights back......

Stall paintbombed in Castlecourt


A stall has been paintbombed in a busy Belfast shopping centre by a man who claimed to be protesting over the Israeli offensive on Gaza.
The incident happened in Castlecourt on Friday at 1.50pm when the shopping centre was packed with Christmas shoppers.


 
Republican Network for Unity (RNU) have admitted carrying out the attack on the stall, which sells cosmetics using Dead Sea Salt.

Over 20 Palestinians and three Israelis have been killed in attacks by both sides following Israel's assassination of Ahmed Jabari, the Hamas military chief, in a drone strike on his car on Wednesday.

Hundreds of rockets have been fired into Israel, who has responded with airstrikes during three days of fighting.

Tanaiste Eamon Gilmore has condemned the escalation of violence which he said has put the lives of innocent civilians at risk.

In a statement RNU said that six balloons filled with red paint were launched from a balcony overlooking the stall.

Police are appealing to anyone who witnessed the incident or has information in relation to it to contact them.

© UTV News
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: give her dixie on November 17, 2012, 10:45:04 AM
What is the best website to follow what is really going on?


Jim, it is best to follow on twitter as it is a constant stream of news as it happens and links to photo's video's and news articles.

https://twitter.com/search?q=gaza&src=savs
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 17, 2012, 12:51:00 PM
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Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 17, 2012, 01:32:07 PM


Breaking News

 

PMO spokesman: 60 Gazan rockets hit Palestinian civilians

By JPOST.COM STAFF

11/17/2012 14:55


Sixty out of the 703 rockets Hamas fired during the four days of Operation Pillar of Defense fell inside the Gaza Strip on Palestinian civilians, PMO Spokesman said on Twitter on Saturday.

Only 27 of the rockets fell on urban areas in Israel.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 17, 2012, 02:09:23 PM


Breaking News

 

PMO spokesman: 60 Gazan rockets hit Palestinian civilians

By JPOST.COM STAFF

11/17/2012 14:55


Sixty out of the 703 rockets Hamas fired during the four days of Operation Pillar of Defense fell inside the Gaza Strip on Palestinian civilians, PMO Spokesman said on Twitter on Saturday.

Only 27 of the rockets fell on urban areas in Israel.
So why the big panic ?
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 17, 2012, 05:37:53 PM

Op-Ed: Spare Us the Pieties on Gaza

Published: Saturday, November 17, 2012 6:25 PM
 
Disproportion? Innocents in Gaza? Give me a break!
 



Jack Engelhard
Jack Engelhard is the author of “The Bathsheba Deadline” and “Indecent Proposal”, as well as the award-winning memoir of his experiences as a Jewish refugee from Europe, "Escape From Mount Moriah". His latest novel, "The Girls of Cincinnati," is available on Amazon. He can be reached at his website www. jackengelhard. com.


Frankly, given a choice, I prefer the skinheads and other brutes who express their anti-Semitism openly. In such places, we know the enemy.

But please spare me the pieties and the righteous indignation of those “good people” protesting throughout Europe
You called it “peace” as long as the Arabs were doing the killing and the Jews were doing the dying.
 against Israel’s defensive operation in Gaza. True, thousands have taken up banners in support of Israel and Jews all over the world are expressing support. At the same time, however, the streets of Europe (and even some in America) are in an uproar. These are the “humanitarians” - the good, the noble, the refined, who chant “peace.”

Now you’re up and about? Now you speak? Where were you when, throughout the years, thousands of jihadist bombs fell on Israel? The streets of Europe were empty. There were no pictures in the newspapers of grieving Jewish mothers and fathers, of frightened old people and children. You called it “peace” as long as the Arabs were doing the killing and the Jews were doing the dying. All was well with the world.

Suddenly, as Israel answers back, you found your Cause; and how self-righteous you are in your Cause.

You are the best and the brightest of Europe. You are educated. You attended the finest schools. You care for the birds, the bees, the bears, the trees. You favor free speech and freedom of religion. Strange it is that the one and only place in the Middle East that shares your world-view is Israel, and it is Israel that you slander.

Israel is a Jewish State. Is that your problem? At the first hint of Jewish self-defense, how quickly you show your true colors.

I’ve seen the photos of your candlelight vigils along the streets and boulevards of Europe, all of it; all these tears in the service of those terrorists whom you call your brothers. Indeed you are related to Hamas (and Fatah) as once before, a mere generation ago, you were related to Hitler’s stormtroopers. Your angelic faces are touching - and disgusting. Your hypocrisy is transparent and nauseating.

You speak of disproportion. You want proportion? Give Israel a population of 300 million residing in 22 countries, similar to the Arab Muslims who surround and ambush Israel - instead of six million Jews in one single country. There’s plenty of “proportion” coming from your BBC, which delights in presenting one side of the story and picks up where Der Sturmer left off. Now, with this type of “news”, we know how Europe was conditioned for a Holocaust.

Already we see Nights of Broken Glass. Thank you, Europe, for reminding us why America was discovered just in time (and why Israel was redeemed many generations too late). You dare judge Israel? In your deportations, your expulsions, your forced conversions, your inquisitions, your pogroms, you have no moral authority over Israel or even within your own borders. You gave all that up from 1492 to 1942.

To those on the Left who sought peace, well, dear peace-lovers, peace brought this on. “Land for Peace” made this happen, as Land for Peace became Land for Jihad. “Painful Concessions” caused this war. “Goodwill Gestures”
You have no moral authority over Israel or even within your own borders.
backfired. Want more “peace”? Give up the Golan Heights. Give up the entire "West Bank". Give up Jerusalem. Imagine the “peace.”

As for those “innocent civilians” in Gaza, they were given a choice and they chose Hamas. They chose this pestilence.

As for those “refugee camps” - why are they “refugee camps” when Israel handed over all that territory for a nation to be built in peace and security alongside Israel? Why are all Palestinians automatically refugees even after they’ve been given a home? The only true refugees are the thousands of Israelis who were driven from Gaza and still live in trailer parks. No tears for them in this world that still dreams of Auschwitz.

Once, in response to a column I wrote about Theresienstadt, someone responded that I was incorrect; that Theresienstadt was not a prelude to Auschwitz, but rather “a vacation resort.” I wrote back wishing this person a lifetime in such vacation resorts. I wish the same lifetime vacation resorts to all those parading throughout the streets of Europe or demonstating in New York at the Israeli Consulate, with banners crying, “Death to Israel.”

God bless the IDF! Go Israel!


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/12456 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/12456)
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: red hander on November 17, 2012, 06:01:19 PM
BalldeBeaver, you're obviously an Israeli government plant, part of a well established policy by Jerusalem to bombard opposition worldwide whether it be TV, radio, internet etc with pro-Israeli propaganda to excuse the inexcusable as your masters prepare (once again) to do exactly what the SS did in Warsaw Ghetto... There is little difference between those Nazi scum and the IDF, a shower of murdering b**tards... Go play your get out jail card and brand me an anti-semite... GO HAMAS!
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 17, 2012, 06:12:55 PM
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Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Rossfan on November 17, 2012, 06:27:17 PM
Very apt.
Two gangs of supremacist cnuts.

When will goldenboy Obama pull the plug on the Hitlerite warmongering Zionist racist Israeli Government and rogue state?
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Ball DeBeaver on November 17, 2012, 06:43:49 PM
A hitlerite, Zionist Israeli.  ;D
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: ludermor on November 17, 2012, 07:29:44 PM
BalldeBeaver, you're obviously an Israeli government plant, part of a well established policy by Jerusalem to bombard opposition worldwide whether it be TV, radio, internet etc with pro-Israeli propaganda to excuse the inexcusable as your masters prepare (once again) to do exactly what the SS did in Warsaw Ghetto... There is little difference between those Nazi scum and the IDF, a shower of murdering b**tards... Go play your get out jail card and brand me an anti-semite... GO HAMAS!
ffs will ya get over yourself, are you accusing seafoid and ghd of beings plants? The propaganda flow doesnt have to flow one way.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: red hander on November 17, 2012, 07:36:58 PM
I didn't mention Seafoid or GHD, you did, so you get over yourself, arsehole
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: tyssam5 on November 17, 2012, 08:20:32 PM
To read some of the bull on this thread you would think Israel are just firing at will at the civilians of Gaza. They aren't. Hamas and it's allies are firing indiscriminately into Israel, with the hope that they kill as many jews as possible. Israel are specifically targetting known senior terrorist members, weapons caches and firing points for rockets. All of these are using the civilian population of Gaza as cover.
If Israel just wanted to kill as many pals as possible, then it could use some of it's considerable weaponry at their disposal, not just the odd missile at a moving car.
Civilian casualties are deeply regretted, and should be avoided, but sometimes they are unavoidable. The strike on     al jabari is a good example of how Israel target these people. His car was allowed to reach the junction (the widest point) to minimise the number of civilians in the area.
If Israel were to fire indiscriminately at unarmed civilians, I would have no hesitation in condeming them for it, as I have in the past. If the pals were to target only military targets in their rocket attacks, I could not condem them for it. They don't. They only target civilians, and as long as they do that then I will continue to demonise these vile pieces of filth as the murdering scum they are.

I'm sure they'll get the white phosphorous out soon enough. Between that and the cluster-bombs they have the terrorism down to a fine art.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: red hander on November 17, 2012, 08:43:36 PM
Gaza has been under siege for over 7 years by the Israelis who control absolutely everything that goes into the area... Where have we heard this before, oh yes, I remember, the Warsaw ghetto, who would have believed the Israelis would have learned so many lessons from the murdering b**tards that treated the jews of Poland so badly... Israel is an absolute disgrace and their military is a shower of murdering b**tards, exactly like the scum of Hitler's SS... There's irony for you, folks
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on November 17, 2012, 09:23:14 PM
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Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: red hander on November 17, 2012, 09:40:56 PM
Just the latest holocaust against innocent Arab men, women and children, Israel really is the scum of the Earth, but alas, because I criticise it, my argument is non-valid, because I'm an anti-Semite, according to those murdering Israeli b**tards
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 17, 2012, 10:46:07 PM
It is just beyond belief that Israel is getting away with this mass slaughter without one word of condemnation from the west. The photo's above only tell a fraction of the true reality. Fcuk Israel, Fcuk the US for backing them, and fcuk the horse they both rode in on. The 2 greatest threats to world peace.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: hardstation on November 17, 2012, 11:02:55 PM
A boy my da knows has recently moved home having spent the last 20 years in Israel. He reckons that "the Jews in Israel are the biggest shower of cúnts in the world".

He was telling my da that some hoor rushed in to bunk him in the queue for a bus. This fella pulled him about it (only using words) when some boy soldier weighed in threatening to shoot him for challenging a Jew. According to him, he was lucky as many have been shot for similar.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on November 17, 2012, 11:05:06 PM
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Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Nally Stand on November 17, 2012, 11:43:59 PM
Just the latest holocaust against innocent Arab men, women and children, Israel really is the scum of the Earth, but alas, because I criticise it, my argument is non-valid, because I'm an anti-Semite, according to those murdering Israeli b**tards

Well said.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: tyssam5 on November 18, 2012, 12:03:23 AM
A boy my da knows has recently moved home having spent the last 20 years in Israel. He reckons that "the Jews in Israel are the biggest shower of cúnts in the world".

He was telling my da that some hoor rushed in to bunk him in the queue for a bus. This fella pulled him about it (only using words) when some boy soldier weighed in threatening to shoot him for challenging a Jew. According to him, he was lucky as many have been shot for similar.

Why did he stay 20 years then? I don't think there's too many white foreigners been shot in bus queues in fairness?

I was there a couple of times for work. People I met seemed for the most part secular and 'normal'. Thinking everyone on both sides or one side is a complete lunatic would be short sighted, especially for people who have grown up in a divided society ourselves.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 18, 2012, 12:17:09 AM
Ball DeBeaver any comment on Israel supplying weapons to loyalist terrorists in the north?

I assume you approved of this and their use in the murder of Catholics.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 18, 2012, 12:19:16 AM
It never ceases to amaze me how steadfast the Palestinians really are. Here they are once again getting pulverized in their homeland by a nuclear armed murderous regime made up of squatters. They are standing up to their fleet of over 250 F16's and F whatever the latest killing machine that the US taxpayers send them every week. Apache murder machines, and the up to date lethal weapon called a Drone. A large fleet of war ships patrol their coast, and they get their kicks from shooting fishermen and sinking their old boats.

They have been locked up now for that many years, the siege has just become a way of life. For survival, they dig 1 km tunnels to bring in food. Israel takes great pride in bombing these tunnels, and then tell the world that they destroyed an "arms smuggling tunnel". A few years ago, the US taxpayers paid millions to install an underground 12" thick plate, 500 metres underground, cutting off all the lifeline tunnels. The Palestinians responded by digging deeper or spending 2 days with cutting gas and cutting a large hole in the steel. Within a few months, all life line tunnels were back to full capacity. Money well spent on the under ground steel wall.

They have the highest rate of amputee's and wheel chair users per head of capita such is the amount of injuries received over the years. Every single family in the strip has had a relative killed or injured over the years.

80% of the population are refugee's and rely on the UN for food. They are part of the 7 million Palestinian refugee's scattered across the middle east in similar camps. They live in poor conditions and still hold the keys to their homes they were forced out of in 1948. Their homes now occupied by squatters from across the world who get to live there because they are Jews.

Unemployment in Gaza is at 60 to 70%, and well over half of the population are under 18. I delivered more goods to the UK in the past 10 days than Gaza was allowed to export all year.

When you consider how they have to live, you have to wonder why people ask "Why do they fire rockets"



Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 18, 2012, 12:49:52 AM
Some tweets coming out now.....

BREAKING| More than FIFTEEN Israeli Apaches are hovering over Nussairat refugee camp, central #Gaza Strip !!

Two children killed in an airstrike on a house in #Gaza city, 6 journalists injured on building for media offices.

Jon Donnison ‏@JonDonnison
This is what we are hearing in #Gaza city in last 10 minutes or so. Not edited. Sounds like Israeli shelling from sea. http://soundcloud.com/jondonnison/sunday-shelling-from-at-sea …

BREAKING: #IOF now are striking buildings that host press offices in Gaza, injuries reported

According to #Gaza radio, two children have been killed in Jabalia and ten civilians injured, presumably by naval fire. #GazaUnderAttack

Jon Donnison ‏@JonDonnison
Terrible lifts & lighting in Shawa and Hussari building which we believe just been hit. Around 12 floors high. Difficult 2 get out of. #Gaza

alex thomson ‏@alextomo
#c4news #gaza local reports say 6 journalists injured in Israeli attack on news agency building
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 18, 2012, 01:11:08 AM
You got to hand it to Israel, they launch "Surgical Strikes" on the media buildings where all the journalists are. 6 have been taken to hospital and a local TV station destroyed.....

How will Mark Regev spin this one?

Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 50 Palestinians murdered
Post by: GAAboardmod1 on November 18, 2012, 01:13:51 PM
Keep it civil.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 50 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2012, 01:47:45 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/17/israel-gaza-us-policy

According to Haaretz, Israel's Interior Minister, Eli Yishai, said this about Israel's attacks on Gaza: "The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages."

Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2012, 01:51:37 PM
Ball DeBeaver any comment on Israel supplying weapons to loyalist terrorists in the north?

I assume you approved of this and their use in the murder of Catholics.
That's antisemitic, er ..
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza and murder top Hamas leader
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2012, 01:54:09 PM
To read some of the bull on this thread you would think Israel are just firing at will at the civilians of Gaza. They aren't. Hamas and it's allies are firing indiscriminately into Israel, with the hope that they kill as many jews as possible. Israel are specifically targetting known senior terrorist members, weapons caches and firing points for rockets. All of these are using the civilian population of Gaza as cover.
If Israel just wanted to kill as many pals as possible, then it could use some of it's considerable weaponry at their disposal, not just the odd missile at a moving car.
Civilian casualties are deeply regretted, and should be avoided, but sometimes they are unavoidable. The strike on     al jabari is a good example of how Israel target these people. His car was allowed to reach the junction (the widest point) to minimise the number of civilians in the area.
If Israel were to fire indiscriminately at unarmed civilians, I would have no hesitation in condeming them for it, as I have in the past. If the pals were to target only military targets in their rocket attacks, I could not condem them for it. They don't. They only target civilians, and as long as they do that then I will continue to demonise these vile pieces of filth as the murdering scum they are.

I'm sure they'll get the white phosphorous out soon enough. Between that and the cluster-bombs they have the terrorism down to a fine art.
Not to mention the depleted uranium.

And anyone who objects is told either

A you are an antisemite
b it is worse in Somalia
c if the Palestinians loved their children none of this would happen

Zionism will destroy mainstream Judaism.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2012, 02:01:09 PM
You got to hand it to Israel, they launch "Surgical Strikes" on the media buildings where all the journalists are. 6 have been taken to hospital and a local TV station destroyed.....

How will Mark Regev spin this one?
When did Regev become a surgeon? 

Here is Regev telling Paxo that a UN school in Gaza Israel bombed was used by Hamas to fire on Israel 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wv0giW1elo

Israel recently admitted that the story was bullshit

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-tv-admits-no-rockets-were-ever-fired-unrwa-schools-gaza-during-cast-lead

Never trust a Zionist junkie.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 50 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2012, 02:50:48 PM
" Hamas and it's allies are firing indiscriminately into Israel, with the hope that they kill as many jews as possible."

This is utter horseshit. AND THE USE OF "IT'S" IS DEPLORABLE.

In 2011 2 people  in Israel were killed by a palestinian rocket. This year 3 have died

As for genocide, at the going kill rate, it would require 4,477,714,286 rockets and mortars, and 4,477,714 years to kill all the Jews in Israel

What is far more dangerous and needs to be wiped out is the Israeli institution of marriage

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4151492,00.html

Twenty-three Israeli women were murdered by their partners in 2011, according to data published by Women’s International Zionist Organization (WIZO) ahead of the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women on Friday

However don't hold Your breath.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: ludermor on November 18, 2012, 03:26:19 PM
I didn't mention Seafoid or GHD, you did, so you get over yourself, arsehole
Why the need to get personal and cast insults? Do you really think the israeli gov would plant someone on a gaa board in 2006 to get ready for a 2012 propaganda brief?
And i know you didnt mention GHD or Seafoid but they constanly post links from the complete opposite to BDB views but you dont accuse them of being plants.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 50 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 18, 2012, 05:05:07 PM
Gods chosen people have just destroyed a house in Gaza killing 11 members of the same family. 5 children and 4 women among the dead.

This is just so so sad at this stage. This isn't a war, its a massacre
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 50 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Rossfan on November 18, 2012, 05:10:30 PM
Another of the many massacres perpetrated by the Zionist Supremacists on the Palestinian people since 1948.
Meanwhile Goldenboy Obama gives the Zionists his full imprimatur while the rest of the "Free world" looks the other way and continues to engage in silly adventures in Afghanistan.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 50 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 18, 2012, 05:36:27 PM
Another of the many massacres perpetrated by the Zionist Supremacists on the Palestinian people since 1948.
Meanwhile Goldenboy Obama gives the Zionists his full imprimatur while the rest of the "Free world" looks the other way and continues to engage in silly adventures in Afghanistan.


And how can the west arm, support, fund and recognise a bunch of unelected gangsters in Lybia and Syria as the true leaders in those countries, and yet, at the same time, arm, support, and fund another bunch of gangsters in their attempt to over throw a democratically Government in Gaza.

Democracy, western style it seems......
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 50 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2012, 06:09:43 PM
Gods chosen people have just destroyed a house in Gaza killing 11 members of the same family. 5 children and 4 women among the dead.

This is just so so sad at this stage. This isn't a war, its a massacre

It isn't war . It's apartheid. Zionism is an addiction to violence. God only knows how it is related to Judaism.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 40 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2012, 07:37:36 PM

Op-Ed: Spare Us the Pieties on Gaza

Published: Saturday, November 17, 2012 6:25 PM
 
Disproportion? Innocents in Gaza? Give me a break!
 



Jack Engelhard
Jack Engelhard is the author of “The Bathsheba Deadline” and “Indecent Proposal”, as well as the award-winning memoir of his experiences as a Jewish refugee from Europe, "Escape From Mount Moriah". His latest novel, "The Girls of Cincinnati," is available on Amazon. He can be reached at his website www. jackengelhard. com.




As for those “innocent civilians” in Gaza, they were given a choice and they chose Hamas. They chose this pestilence.


God bless the IDF! Go Israel!


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/12456 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/12456)
@BDB

I presume you agree with what you post. So let's take the highlighted sentence back 31 years to a by election in Norn Irn.
Eoin Carron was Bobby Sand's election agent and when the latter died during the hunger strikes he was elected by a landslide in Fermanagh South Tyrone.

Now imagine that the catholics of that constituency got the Gaza treatment. Any catholic business within the area slowly strangled by customs rules. All catholics restricted to 2000 calories per day.  Every 4 years FST bombed with F16s. No rebuilding allowed in between.  Anyone trying to travel to Armagh or Derry shot on sight at the fence surrounding the constituency.  30% of catholic women develop anemia. 10% severely malnourished.   

When the FG?labour coalition   in Dublin complain to London the following year Norman Tebbit replies with


As for those “innocent civilians” in Fermanagh South Tyrone, they were given a choice and they chose Sinn Fein . They chose this pestilence

And that is the logic that you apply to the Palestinians.
Obviously all the Ulster posters on the board would agree with you. 
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 19, 2012, 12:44:19 AM
I remember seeing a BBC documentary a few years ago where BBC journalists were chased away from an illegal West Bank settlement by a Zionist settler brandishing an offensive machine gun and an even more offensive Texan accent. Today on BBC news a Russian Zionist immigrant in Israel proper was interviewed and she suggested that Israel flatten Gaza just like Russia did to Chechnya in their war. Just made me think Israel might need to alter its immigration polices.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 19, 2012, 12:48:55 AM
Gilad Sharon, nephew of murderous vegetable Ariel Sharon, is just as bloodthirsty as his uncle.

"We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too."

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=292466
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on November 19, 2012, 02:01:21 AM
My God in heaven Israel is carpet bombing Gaza right now, many dead..
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 19, 2012, 04:22:59 AM
Another family wiped out by Gods chosen people, fully funded by the US taxpayers.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2012, 08:46:03 AM

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/haaretz-poll-more-than-90-percent-of-israeli-jews-support-gaza-war.premium-1.478903#

Six days into the aerial attack on Gaza, 84 percent of the Israeli public supports Operation Pillar of Defense, with 12 percent opposing it, according to a Haaretz-Dialog poll taken Sunday. The poll surveyed proportional samples of Jews and Arabs, indicating that Jewish support for the war stands at upwards of 90 percent.
Previous experience shows that from now on, it will only get worse for the leadership as matters become more complicated and the public's exuberance wears off.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2012, 09:09:04 AM
How to get war approval rates in excess of 90% :

You need to doctor some pictures

http://972mag.com/on-facebook-idf-illustrates-palestinian-violence-with-photo-from-bahrain/58550/
http://972mag.com/war-trauma-kid-not-if-youre-asian/45238/
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: glens abu on November 19, 2012, 09:43:10 AM
Rally in support of the people of Gaza tomorrow night at 7.00pm City Hall Belfast,try and be there if you really care.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 19, 2012, 11:17:33 AM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: southdown on November 19, 2012, 12:00:06 PM
Obama, the Nobel Peace Prize Winner, seems very quiet.  Saw a report on the news last night of Israeli military trucks carrying what were clearly labelled cluster bombs.  If they use these they cannot claim to be carryng out "surgical" strikes.

The hypocrocy of this whole episode sickens my hole.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Denn Forever on November 19, 2012, 12:14:41 PM
Do you have any links to this news item showing these trucks carrying cluster bombs?
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: southdown on November 19, 2012, 12:18:56 PM
Was on sky news last night at about 8, then went on to say how Israel and the US were the only major powers not to have signed the treaty banning the use of these.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2012, 12:41:27 PM
Obama, the Nobel Peace Prize Winner, seems very quiet.  Saw a report on the news last night of Israeli military trucks carrying what were clearly labelled cluster bombs.  If they use these they cannot claim to be carryng out "surgical" strikes.

The hypocrocy of this whole episode sickens my hole.

"Surgical strikes" is war porn . And BS.

It seems the Israelis have run out of soft targets so the likelihood of family wipeouts is higher than it was on Thursday.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 19, 2012, 12:44:16 PM
USA shields Israel
Russia shields Syria
China shields North Korea

Rogue superpowers shielding rogue regional powers.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: nrico2006 on November 19, 2012, 01:54:51 PM
Haven't followed this too much since it all started last week, but was it not started by Palestinians? 
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 19, 2012, 01:59:04 PM
Excellent statement from Mark Durkan where he pulls no punches in seeking an end to the massacre unfolding in Gaza. We need more Irish politicians to take a leaf out of his book and speak out and tell the truth without fear of offending Israel or the US.

Durkan: End the slaughter in Gaza

SDLP Foyle MP Mark Durkan has written to the Foreign Secretary William Hague to register his deep concern at the deteriorating situation in Gaza and has called for urgent intervention by the international community to stop the humanitarian catastrophe which is currently unfolding.
Mon 19th November

Mr Durkan, a member of the All Party Group on Palestine (at Westminster) said: “I have written to the Foreign Secretary William Hague to register my deep concern at the deteriorating situation in Gaza and the inadequacy of the international response to Israel’s violence against the Palestinian people.

“I would also stress that I have registered my full condemnation of any and all attacks on Israelis by Hamas or any other armed interest. Rocket attacks on Southern Israel have to be totally repudiated not only because of the death and destruction they bring to Israeli civilians but also because of the retaliatory violence which Israel feels it has the right to visit upon the afflicted people of Gaza.

“It is not good enough for governments – including the UK government – to hide behind superficial even-handedness or to call for a two-way ceasefire in terms that suggest that Israel is not to be held to any particular account for the scale, nature and humanitarian impact of the military action it has deployed.

“Israel has been able to execute recent attacks because they know that they are immune from meaningful international sanction or diplomatic rebuke.

“I have made it clear to the Foreign Secretary that if current policy approaches are rendering the UK and Europe devoid of influence or meaningful intervention, then they need to change.

“I would also stress the fact that now President Obama has secured a second term with a positive mandate he needs to be more active and ethical in using his stature in pursuit of peace, international justice and human rights in the Middle East.

“This should begin with a truly unequivocal condemnation of Israel’s current excesses.

“His administration and European governments must also reflect strongly on their thwarting of the Palestinian application at the UN General Assembly later this month.

“There must be a redoubling of international efforts to secure a lasting settlement with a secure and independent state of Palestine alongside a secure and independent Israel.

“President Obama and the responsible international community would find more progress towards the ‘two states’ solution if they allowed more semblance of a ‘two states’ process.”
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 19, 2012, 02:01:52 PM
Haven't followed this too much since it all started last week, but was it not started by Palestinians?


You are 100% correct. The Palestinians started this by not moving off their homeland and hand it all over to Israel, as was promised to them thousands of years ago in some book.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Denn Forever on November 19, 2012, 02:18:34 PM
Was it started this week by rocket attacks from inside Gaza?  Were there any attacks from Gaza this week before Israel took out the Hamas leader?

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/photo.php?fbid=356053114491489&set=a.108531529243650.16425.100002604093592&type=1&theater
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2012, 02:26:15 PM
You would wonder what has happened to Israeli civil society when Gaza is attacked before every election and 90% of Israeli Jews approve. 
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: trileacman on November 19, 2012, 02:40:00 PM
Was it started this week by rocket attacks from inside Gaza?  Were there any attacks from Gaza this week before Israel took out the Hamas leader?

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/photo.php?fbid=356053114491489&set=a.108531529243650.16425.100002604093592&type=1&theater

No Israel kicked it off by taking out the Hamas leader and no cower behind the excuse that they are replying to rockets from Gaza, an outright lie. Obama shows his weak side by towing the "blame Gaza" side in all this, all the other foreign affairs ministers around the world are absolute f**king cowards who won't call this for what it is.

William Hague especially is a spineless cnut.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2012, 02:50:15 PM
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/dancing-israeli-students-chant-death-arabs-rally-backing-gaza-slaughter

Israeli students at Haifa University danced and chanted “Death to the Arabs” at a rally on Sunday to support Israel’s bombardment of the Gaza Strip.

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/idf-must-learn-syrians-how-slaughter-enemy-says-prominent-israeli-rabbi

This report, from the Israeli financial news website Globes, was translated by Dena Shunra:


Rabbi Yaakov Yosef: “The IDF must learn from the Syrians how to slaughter the enemy”

“The army has got to learn from the Syrians how to slaughter and crush the enemy” - that is how Rabbi Yaakov Yosef, son of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, “blessed” the IDF [sic] soldiers who may soon find themselves within the Gaza Strip, within the framework of a ground operation which may happen in practice.

According to the report on the Jewish Voice [hakol hayehudi] website, Rabbi Yosef gave a sermon today at the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron, and among other statements blessed the IDF soldiers by saying: “we warmly bless the soldiers and pray that they leave in peace and return in peace.” Immediately thereafter he said that the IDF should learn from the Syrians “how to slaughter and how to crush the enemy.”

According to the report, Rabbi Yosef said similar things in a sermon he gave in Jerusalem last weekend. Yosef was interrogated by the police in the past for alleged incitement, due to his statement of consent and approval for the Torat Hamelech book, which deals in the halacahic laws of war under the Torah.




http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/flatten-gaza-hiroshima-and-mow-population-israeli-public-figures-urge

Among the latest horrifying examples of incitement to mass murder by Israeli public figures, Gilad Sharon, the son of former prime minister and notorious war criminal Ariel Sharon, has called for the Israeli army to “flatten” Gaza as the US flattened the Japanese city of Hiroshima in 1945 with an atomic bomb.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 19, 2012, 03:06:23 PM
Breaking News:--- Israeli warplanes target Al-Shorouq building which houses many international and local media outlets, at least 1 person has been killed and 7 others injured. Tens of journalists are trapped inside the building as fire engulfs 1st and 2nd level of ( Entrance) the 12-story building

Ministry of Health confirm 98 killed, and over 750 injured. The other 1.6 million are living in a deep fear thinking will I be next?

Meanwhile, Israel keeps on bombing, and no one has the guts or the balls to stand up to them and roar.  "Stop This Massacre".

I hate to harp on about Obama, but has he not proven to be a gutless morally bankrupt man. He is seeing the same images of dead children as we are, and he hasn't the heart to say a single word. Cameron, and Hague are just as bad. Hague is a puppet for Israel because all he says when he speaks is that Hams is to blame. Thats right William, keep on telling the lie, and keep repeat the word Hamas 20 times into every interview.

What we are witnessing now is very unique in that Israel is showing the world how they are carrying out a massacre. They have let all the media who wants to go to Gaza enter without a word of a fuss. No one got in 4 years ago. The media there are showing us the death and destruction through the main stream, and those on social media have been live reporting the attacks 24/7 through facebook and twitter. For 6 days now Gaza has been trending in the top 5, and if anyone clicks on it, they will see video and images that no main stream would ever report.

In the face of all this, Israel is showing the world how evil it really is, and how much control they have over the west. Has any western leader spoke out and condemned them for killing babies and pregnant women?

The scary bit is yet to come, if they decide to launch a ground invasion. Not only will the Palestinians in Gaza resist in any way they can, but other nations will support them. Egypt, Turkey and Tunisia are serious players, and they will not allow a bloodbath in Gaza.

Right now the Israeli public is baying for blood, and giving full backing to a ground invasion. What does it say about them that they would love to see that much death and destruction?

The coming hours and days are very critical, but sadly, the killing will continue......
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Rossfan on November 19, 2012, 03:46:21 PM
Obama could stop those cnuts overnight if he just gave the word.
But then his party might lose out on all the funds they get from US Jews.
Sickening the lot of it.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on November 19, 2012, 03:51:37 PM
Please watch this documentary it answers many questions. While we say how can this happen? This should go some way to explaining how the system works. Don't rush to judgement until you watch it. Thank you.
http://youtu.be/IQqWM0nRRPU
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2012, 04:21:02 PM
Gilad Sharon, nephew of murderous vegetable Ariel Sharon, is just as bloodthirsty as his uncle.

"We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too."

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=292466

The Nazis razed the Warsaw ghetto in 1944. That a Jew proposes to do the same to Gaza in 2012 is beyond words.
And the Jerusalem Post is the Israeli equivalent of the Indo. How can they publish such hatred? 
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Nally Stand on November 19, 2012, 04:25:24 PM
Register your disgust with the Israeli ambassador at:

ambassador-sec@dublin.mfa.gov.il

It won't solve anything, but can't do any harm to bombard the tramps with emails.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Puckoon on November 19, 2012, 04:32:31 PM
Excellent statement from Mark Durkan where he pulls no punches in seeking an end to the massacre unfolding in Gaza. We need more Irish politicians to take a leaf out of his book and speak out and tell the truth without fear of offending Israel or the US.


“I would also stress that I have registered my full condemnation of any and all attacks on Israelis by Hamas or any other armed interest. Rocket attacks on Southern Israel have to be totally repudiated not only because of the death and destruction they bring to Israeli civilians but also because of the retaliatory violence which Israel feels it has the right to visit upon the afflicted people of Gaza.

“It is not good enough for governments – including the UK government – to hide behind superficial even-handedness or to call for a two-way ceasefire in terms that suggest that Israel is not to be held to any particular account for the scale, nature and humanitarian impact of the military action it has deployed.

“Israel has been able to execute recent attacks because they know that they are immune from meaningful international sanction or diplomatic rebuke.


GHD, Been following this with some interest over the weekend, and it's a very very bad situation. Like you, I applaud Mark Durkan's message. His entire message. Including, specifically, the above 3 sections.

The scale on which Israel has reacted at Palestine, and the number of civilian casualties as a result is frightening, as is the lack of intervention from the world stage.

The scale on which Hamas is being held completely blameless on this board and in the social media is also frightening.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2012, 04:45:04 PM
Israel only has 60% support in the US this time around. I believe the % was much higher for the last Obama inauguration /Israeli election Gaza carnage.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: The Iceman on November 19, 2012, 05:01:59 PM
Puck,
I think it is hard to be as calculated as politicians in our response to this. I know I have been sickened to the stomach by it all - some of the images and news reports online are horrifying. Hamas have to answer for their part in this but I have to sympathize with their general cause and as a result of Israel's heavy-handedness.
What is equally shocking to me is the stance of American's who I would call friends on all of this. I am just really saddened by it all.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Puckoon on November 19, 2012, 05:06:42 PM
It has indeed been a horrifying weekend for the violence. I don't know many people, American or not, who could argue otherwise.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: stew on November 19, 2012, 05:33:51 PM
Register your disgust with the Israeli ambassador at:

ambassador-sec@dublin.mfa.gov.il

It won't solve anything, but can't do any harm to bombard the tramps with emails.

Good man yourself, thanks for this Nally.Mr. Ambassador, I have long been a supporter of your people and have defended your right to exist as a nation on many, many occasions, I have even, to my shame defended the indefensible by giving your people the benefit of the doubt, that I will do no more.

I am absolutely sickened and disgusted by what your people are doing to the people of Gaza, I live in the US and I am appalled at the lack of airtime this atrocity is getting, and the governments of the world should hang their heads in shame!

I know Mr. Ambassador that these words will be seen by blind eyes, I just thought I would send you this email to let you know that the people who pray for you and your people the world over are disgusted at your complete lack of humanity pertaining to the people of Gaza, how can you of all people not learn from the mistakes of the past?

I beg you to use your influence to see reason and be the difference, help these people keep their lives and stop the killings for the love of God!

Kevin Newbanks.




Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2012, 05:35:40 PM
Register your disgust with the Israeli ambassador at:

ambassador-sec@dublin.mfa.gov.il

It won't solve anything, but can't do any harm to bombard the tramps with emails.

Good man yourself, thanks for this Nally.Mr. Ambassador, I have long been a supporter of your people and have defended your right to exist as a nation on many, many occasions, I have even, to my shame defended the indefensible by giving your people the benefit of the doubt, that I will do no more.

I am absolutely sickened and disgusted by what your people are doing to the people of Gaza, I live in the US and I am appalled at the lack of airtime this atrocity is getting, and the governments of the world should hang their heads in shame!

I know Mr. Ambassador that these words will be seen by blind eyes, I just thought I would send you this email to let you know that the people who pray for you and your people the world over are disgusted at your complete lack of humanity pertaining to the people of Gaza, how can you of all people not learn from the mistakes of the past?

I beg you to use your influence to see reason and be the difference, help these people keep their lives and stop the killings for the love of God!



Fair play Stew.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: stew on November 19, 2012, 05:56:51 PM
The total of dead has reached 100 now, the Israelis have lost 3 people whilst 25 children living in Gaza have been killed as well as ten women.

Where the fcuk are the Governments of the world?


b**tards all.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2012, 05:58:23 PM
Israel is such a mess


http://www.adl.org/PresRele/IslME_62/6429_62.htm


ADL Expresses Support For Targeted Military Action In Gaza


New York, NY, November 14, 2012 … The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) expressed support for the targeted military action taken today by Israel to protect the civilian population in southern Israel against the renewed barrage of rocket and mortar fire from Hamas-controlled Gaza.

 

Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director, issued the following statement:

Israel has shown tremendous restraint in the face of the unceasing rocket and mortar fire launched from Gaza.  This operation is directly targeting the leadership responsible for these attacks, as well as the warehouses and facilities housing their weapons.   No country in the world would stand by and tolerate such attacks on more than a million civilians.   

 

The international community has a clear obligation to condemn these attacks and to support the actions taken by Israel against Hamas and other terror organizations operating in Gaza as Israel carries out its basic duty to defend its civilian population.



The Anti-Defamation League, founded in 1913, is the world's leading organization fighting anti-Semitism through programs and services that counteract hatred, prejudice and bigotry.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2012, 05:59:31 PM
BTW no sign of BalldeBeaver today.

The embassy must have run out of verbiage.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Pangurban on November 19, 2012, 08:31:15 PM
The so called leaders of the Western World should hang their heads in shame, while their erstwhile leader Obama stands exposed as the biggest con-man ever to occupy the White House. Protest is futile, we can only hope for an early cease fire. and in the meantime boycott all Isreali products/ In condeming the Western leaders hypocrisy we should also note the very muted response from the rest of the world, including our own moral heroes in the Dail, while the silence from the Vatican has been deafening. We are living in a morally bankrupt world
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: tyssam5 on November 19, 2012, 11:46:31 PM
Was it started this week by rocket attacks from inside Gaza?  Were there any attacks from Gaza this week before Israel took out the Hamas leader?

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/photo.php?fbid=356053114491489&set=a.108531529243650.16425.100002604093592&type=1&theater

No Israel kicked it off by taking out the Hamas leader and no cower behind the excuse that they are replying to rockets from Gaza, an outright lie. Obama shows his weak side by towing the "blame Gaza" side in all this, all the other foreign affairs ministers around the world are absolute f**king cowards who won't call this for what it is.

William Hague especially is a spineless cnut.

Was wondering about the order of events myself, I thought the attack on the Hamas leader preceded the rockets from Gaza, but the reporting on this issue is generally fairly bad.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on November 20, 2012, 12:29:01 AM
Was it started this week by rocket attacks from inside Gaza?  Were there any attacks from Gaza this week before Israel took out the Hamas leader?

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/photo.php?fbid=356053114491489&set=a.108531529243650.16425.100002604093592&type=1&theater

No Israel kicked it off by taking out the Hamas leader and no cower behind the excuse that they are replying to rockets from Gaza, an outright lie. Obama shows his weak side by towing the "blame Gaza" side in all this, all the other foreign affairs ministers around the world are absolute f**king cowards who won't call this for what it is.

William Hague especially is a spineless cnut.

Was wondering about the order of events myself, I thought the attack on the Hamas leader preceded the rockets from Gaza, but the reporting on this issue is generally fairly bad.
Excuse me for not getting the names of the people. First person shot was a mentally challenged man who walked to close to the wall Israel built around Gaza. The second incident Israel killed a 13 year old playing football out side his house. While at the funeral of the thirteen year old Israel fired a missile at the mourners seriously injuring five teenagers and killing two of the little boys cousins. This is the truth how it started Israel was looking for blood. I will get the victims names for you soon. I am sick to my stomach a bout the whole thing. Also like to add that the media have blood in there hands. They have a moral duty to let people know the truth and reading some of the comments here it appears there deliberate distortion of the truth have left a lot of people none the wiser.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2012, 09:09:08 AM
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/gaza-s-96-dead-include-farmers-water-sellers-and-the-girl-next-door.premium-1.479110/gaza-s-96-dead-include-farmers-water-sellers-and-the-girl-next-door.premium-1.479110

On Sunday afternoon the IAF fired two missiles on a vehicle distributing purified water to the Beit Lahia area, killing the driver, Suhail Ashur Mohammed Hamada, 42, and his 10-year-old son.

An estimated 95 percent of the water in Gaza is not fit to drink, forcing residents to buy purified water or receive it from their municipality.

Another 10-year-old boy was killed along with his father later Sunday, while they were trying to fix a pipe on the roof of their home in Jabalya. Missile or bomb fragments often cause damage to pipes and water heaters, and residents risk their lives to go up on their roofs in an effort to fix them. At 10 P.M. Jalal Nasser, 42, and his 10-year-old son Hussein were killed by an Israeli missile.
 
•   Later that night, a 31-year-old man whom relatives described as mentally retarded was killed in an air strike while standing near his home in Saja'iyya.•   
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Declan on November 20, 2012, 09:10:31 AM
Killing Hope: Why Israel Targets Sports in Gaza
by Dave Zirin
Let's start with a fact. On November 16, the Israeli Air Force bombed the 10,000-seat Palestine Stadium "into ruins." The stadium also headquartered the center for youth sports programs throughout the Gaza Strip. This is the second time Israel has flattened the facility. The first was in 2006 and the people of Gaza have spent the last six years rebuilding the fields, stands, and offices to keep the national soccer team as well as club sports alive in the region.

I'm sure the reaction to this fact will depend on what side people take in the current conflict. For the Israeli government and their supporters, they promised “collective punishment” following the Hamas rockets fired over the border and they are delivering “collective punishment.” Matan Vilnai, deputy defense minister of Israel has in the past threatened a "holocaust" and Gilad Sharon, son of former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, called for Gaza to be the new “Hiroshima.” In this context, a sports facility must seem like little more than target practice.

For those attending daily demonstrations against the carnage, this news of a stadium’s destruction must also be seen as an irrelevancy. After all according to The Wall Street Journal, 90 Palestinians, including 50 civilians, have been killed in Gaza. 225 children are among the more than 700 injured and these numbers are climbing. Israeli ground troops are massing at the border and President Obama can only bring himself to defend Israel without criticism. There is only so much concern for a stadium people can be expected to muster.

I think however that we should all take a moment to ask the question, "Why?" Why has the Palestinian sports infrastructure, not to mention Palestinian athletes, always been a target of the Israeli military? Why has the Palestinian domestic soccer league only completed seven seasons since its founding in 1977? Why are players commonly subjected to harassment and violence, not to mention curfews, checkpoints, and all sorts of legal restrictions on their movement? Why were national team players Ayman Alkurd, Shadi Sbakhe and Wajeh Moshate killed by the Israeli Defense Forces during the 2009 military campaign? Why did imprisoned national team player Mahmoud Sarsak require a hunger strike, the international solidarity campaign of Amnesty International, and a formal protest from both FIFA and the 50,000-player soccer union FIFpro to just to win his freedom after three years behind bars?

The answer is simple. Sports is more than loved in Gaza (and it is loved.) It’s an expression of humanity for those living under occupation. It’s not just soccer and it’s not just the boys. Everyone plays, with handball, volleyball, and basketball joining soccer as the most popular choices. To have several thousand people gather to watch a girls sporting event is a way of life. It’s a community event designed not only to cheer those on the field, but cheer those in the stands. As one Palestinian man from Gaza said to me, “[Sports] is our time to forget where we are and remember who we are.”

Attacking the athletic infrastructure is about attacking the idea that joy, normalcy, or a universally recognizable humanity could ever be a part of life for a Palestinian child. This is a critical for Israel both internationally and at home. The only way the Israeli government and its allies can continue to act with such brazen disregard for civilian life is if they convince the world that their adversaries collectively are less than human. The subway ads calling Muslims “savages”, the Islamophobic cartoons and videos that are held up as examples of free speech, are all part of a quilt that says some deaths are not to be mourned.

At home, attacking sports is about nothing less than killing hope. Israel’s total war, underwritten by the United States, is a war not only on Hamas or military installations but on the idea that life can ever be so carefree in Gaza as to involve play. The objective instead is to hear these words of a young girl outside Al Shifa Hospital on November 18th who said, "To the world and people: Why should we be killed and why shouldn't we have a normal childhood? What did we do to face all this?"

If you play, you can dream. If you dream, you are imagining a better world.  As the great Olympian Wilma Rudolph said, “Never underestimate the power of dreams and the influence of the human spirit. The potential for greatness lives within each of us.” Nothing marks the nihilism of Israel’s project quite like this fact: they don’t want the people of Gaza to dream. In the eyes of Benjamin Netanyahu, they are only worthy of nightmares.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Aerlik on November 20, 2012, 10:34:05 AM
Hmmm, interesting...

during this evening's Channel 9 News (West Aus) the newsreader read out how 12 people had been "murdered" (sic) in an attack on the house on Gaza.  This preceded the cut to the commercials.  So, I sat and waited for the story to air...not a word of it.    Not a single fekkin word of it.  Instead the usual pro-Zionist shite.  Fcuk it's maddening. 

The commercial media in this  country are a disgrace.  Only ABC and SBS have in-depth coverage for the zionist atrocities and terrorism.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2012, 12:49:21 PM
http://readersupportednews.org/off-site-opinion-section/133-133/14621-elites-will-make-gazans-of-us-all
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Nally Stand on November 20, 2012, 01:29:35 PM
"There are no innocents in Gaza. Don’t let any diplomats who want to look good in the world endanger your lives. At the tiniest concern for your lives, mow them down! There are no righteous men [in Gaza], turn it into rubble! Paint it red!”
–       Michael Ben-Ari, Israeli Member of Parliament


"The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages, only then will Israel be calm for 40 years. We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages, destroying all the infrastructure, including roads and water.”
–      Eli Yishai, Deputy Prime Minister of Israel


“We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too. To prevent harm to innocent civilians in Gaza will ultimately lead to harming the truly innocent: the residents of southern Israel. The residents of Gaza are not innocent, they elected Hamas. The Gazans aren’t hostages; they chose this freely, and must live with the consequences.”
–      Gilad Sharon, son of former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon



Has Inda opened his mouth about this at all yet?
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: southdown on November 20, 2012, 01:34:14 PM
Correct me if am wrong, but if Palestine were able to get full UN status (that is a bif if) could Israel then be held accountable by the International Criminal Court for their actions?

Is full UN membership a realistic goal, or will the US do all in their powers to veto this. 
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 20, 2012, 02:03:13 PM
Correct me if am wrong, but if Palestine were able to get full UN status (that is a bif if) could Israel then be held accountable by the International Criminal Court for their actions?

Is full UN membership a realistic goal, or will the US do all in their powers to veto this.

Yep, as a state, Palestine can take Israel to court and by the time they are finished with them, there wouldn't be much left. As Seafoid said earlier, it would be the end of the Zionist dream and plan.

So, in light of that, never will the US allow that to happen as they hold a veto at the UN. That is the sham of the UN as it's a democracy of one.

The very fact that Obama hasn't been able to say boo so far on the babies getting murdered, and instead justifies their death in a "Israel has the right to defend itself" statement. Pathetic excuse for a human and as a father of 2 young girls, it shows you how much hold Israel have over the US. The US is not allowed to comment and must do as it's told by a lunatic state in the Middle East. It is extremely sad as it makes a complete mockery of the independence of the US.

Towards the US, Israel behaves like a school bully. Every one of his victims hand over their full support and dinner money. Until they grow up and grow a pair of balls, the school bully will reign.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: ballinaman on November 20, 2012, 02:07:03 PM
Register your disgust with the Israeli ambassador at:

ambassador-sec@dublin.mfa.gov.il

It won't solve anything, but can't do any harm to bombard the tramps with emails.
Dropped him a line there to let them know my thoughts.
Shame on Israel.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 20, 2012, 02:55:47 PM
In the past hour, Israel have killed another 12 Palestinians. 4 are children

2 children were killed instantly as a "Surgical Strike" hit them and their 15 friends as they were playing. Cars arriving at the hospital filled with badly injured kids.

Today is international day for children. Israel knows how best to mark such a special day
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2012, 03:12:48 PM
Correct me if am wrong, but if Palestine were able to get full UN status (that is a bif if) could Israel then be held accountable by the International Criminal Court for their actions?

Is full UN membership a realistic goal, or will the US do all in their powers to veto this.

The Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court recently advised that there was no reasonable basis to proceed with any investigation of war crimes or crimes against humanity unless the relevant bodies at the United Nations or the ICC Assembly of States Parties first make a legal determination as to whether or not the victim qualifies as a State. Ambassador Christian Wenaweser, president of the ICC Assembly of State Parties, told Joe Lauria of the WSJ that a Palestinian UN observer state could join the ICC and ask the court to investigate any alleged war crimes and other charges against Israel committed on Palestinian territory after July 2002, including Israel’s 2008-09 assault on the Gaza Strip.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904060604576575002527221120.html

The US will not tolerate full UN membership but observer status is not subject to a veto at the security council and
the palestinians are looking at a win in a free vote


According to a Palestinian official, Middle East Quartet envoy Tony Blair and EU foreign affairs chief Lady Ashton were in Ramallah yesterday to renew efforts to persuade the Palestinian leadership to delay its drive to get the United Nations general assembly to recognise a Palestinian state.   

b**tards

If Israel is exposed to the might of international justice Zionism is toast.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 20, 2012, 03:31:31 PM
Thousands of Palestinians are fleeing their homes after Israel dropped leaflets over 300,000 homes.
The leaflets also showed a map and had designated roads for them to travel on.

Tomorrow, you will hear an Israeli spokesperson on the airwaves justifying the slaughter of innocents by telling us that they are a very humane people. They sent them a message, and we even drew a map for them to show them where to go. If they are on the BBC, do not expect an interviewer to challenge them.

George Orwell was right. "War is peace"

Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: theskull1 on November 20, 2012, 03:42:03 PM
Nothing exposes the corruption of political leaders like this issue. Protecting the claim jumping bully at every turn. Its hard to fathom the level of influence zionists have on so many western powers from politics, media all the way to finance. The other side of the arguement here in the 'free world' never has a chance just like the Palestinians themselves. It really is an ugly world out there
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Nally Stand on November 20, 2012, 03:49:32 PM
Thousands of Palestinians are fleeing their homes after Israel dropped leaflets over 300,000 homes.
The leaflets also showed a map and had designated roads for them to travel on.

Tomorrow, you will hear an Israeli spokesperson on the airwaves justifying the slaughter of innocents by telling us that they are a very humane people. They sent them a message, and we even drew a map for them to show them where to go. If they are on the BBC, do not expect an interviewer to challenge them.

George Orwell was right. "War is peace"

What's your reading of the Egyptians claiming that a truce is imminent, GHD?
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 20, 2012, 04:11:42 PM
It's looking good at this stage Nally. Various well connected sources are confirming a ceasefire from midnight.

However, I still don't trust Israel over the next few hours.

Hamas had laid down a condition for a ceasefire in that the siege had to be lifted.

Apparently, while not a complete lifting is to be announced, a substantial shift is on the cards.

The sad part is, Hilary Clinton is scheduled to appear later to announce the deal. WTF?
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Nally Stand on November 20, 2012, 04:18:09 PM
It's looking good at this stage Nally. Various well connected sources are confirming a ceasefire from midnight.

However, I still don't trust Israel over the next few hours.

Hamas had laid down a condition for a ceasefire in that the siege had to be lifted.

Apparently, while not a complete lifting is to be announced, a substantial shift is on the cards.

The sad part is, Hilary Clinton is scheduled to appear later to announce the deal. WTF?

As you say, they can't be trusted. Even if they do agree to a truce, how many more pounds of flesh will they needlessly claim before midnight?
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2012, 04:34:10 PM
It's looking good at this stage Nally. Various well connected sources are confirming a ceasefire from midnight.

However, I still don't trust Israel over the next few hours.

Hamas had laid down a condition for a ceasefire in that the siege had to be lifted.

Apparently, while not a complete lifting is to be announced, a substantial shift is on the cards.

The sad part is, Hilary Clinton is scheduled to appear later to announce the deal. WTF?

As you say, they can't be trusted. Even if they do agree to a truce, how many more pounds of flesh will they needlessly claim before midnight?
They might send the Phalange in to mop up. I think they did that before somewhere. 
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 20, 2012, 05:26:26 PM
Mark Regev made good on his promise as 2 camera men from Al Aqsa TV were killed in the past 30 minutes.

22 killed today so far.

Now watch this interview with Regev yesterday:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU0MLpX2iGw
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2012, 05:55:13 PM
Mark Regev made good on his promise as 2 camera men from Al Aqsa TV were killed in the past 30 minutes.

22 killed today so far.

Now watch this interview with Regev yesterday:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU0MLpX2iGw
Regev is such a slimeball.


He is the Grand Wizard of hasbara.
Title: Re: Israel escalate attacks on Gaza, over 70 Palestinians murdered
Post by: stew on November 20, 2012, 06:11:00 PM
Correct me if am wrong, but if Palestine were able to get full UN status (that is a bif if) could Israel then be held accountable by the International Criminal Court for their actions?

Is full UN membership a realistic goal, or will the US do all in their powers to veto this.

Yep, as a state, Palestine can take Israel to court and by the time they are finished with them, there wouldn't be much left. As Seafoid said earlier, it would be the end of the Zionist dream and plan.

So, in light of that, never will the US allow that to happen as they hold a veto at the UN. That is the sham of the UN as it's a democracy of one.

The very fact that Obama hasn't been able to say boo so far on the babies getting murdered, and instead justifies their death in a "Israel has the right to defend itself" statement. Pathetic excuse for a human and as a father of 2 young girls, it shows you how much hold Israel have over the US. The US is not allowed to comment and must do as it's told by a lunatic state in the Middle East. It is extremely sad as it makes a complete mockery of the independence of the US.

Towards the US, Israel behaves like a school bully. Every one of his victims hand over their full support and dinner money. Until they grow up and grow a pair of balls, the school bully will reign.

Tell me again why so many of you wanted Obama to win again????

Never mind, Romney would have been just as bad if not worse on this issue, I am beside myself for not having the balls nor intellect to
see through the propaganda and I am ashamed of myself for backing the pro Israeli brigade for so long!
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 20, 2012, 06:29:41 PM
The b**tards are shelling the shit out of Gaza right now. 50 explosions in the past 45 minutes and many injures and some further deaths been reported. I hope all those leaders and politicians are proud of themselves.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 20, 2012, 06:54:31 PM
According to all the people tweeting out of Gaza right now reporting huge explosions going off everywhere. They are under heavy attack in the area's they dropped the leaflets on

North to the south, east to the west, they are getting a full on attack.

Navy ships are shelling all along the coast.

14 killed in the past 3 hours

This is mental. Mental
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Saffrongael on November 20, 2012, 07:09:45 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/11/20/hamas-kills-suspected-col_n_2165236.html

Hamas kills six suspected Israel collaborators

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Masked gunmen publicly shot dead six suspected collaborators with Israel in a large Gaza City intersection Tuesday, witnesses said. An Associated Press reporter saw a mob surrounding five of the bloodied corpses shortly after the killing.
Some in the crowd stomped and spit on the bodies. A sixth corpse was tied to a motorcycle and dragged through the streets as people screamed, "Spy! Spy!"
The Hamas military wing, Izzedine al-Qassam, claimed responsibility in a large handwritten note attached to a nearby electricity pole. Hamas said the six were killed because they gave Israel information about fighters and rocket launching sites.
The killing came on the seventh day of an Israeli military offensive that has killed more than 120 Palestinians, both militants and civilians. Israel has launched hundreds of airstrikes, targeting rocket launching sites, weapons caches and homes of Hamas activists, as Palestinians fired hundreds of rockets at Israel.
Israel relies on a network of local informers to identify its targets in Gaza.
The six were killed on Tuesday afternoon in Gaza City's Sheik Radwan neighborhood.
Witnesses said a van stopped in the intersection, and four masked men pushed the six suspected informers out of the vehicle. Salim Mahmoud, 18, said the gunmen ordered the six to lie face down in the street and then shot them dead. Another witness, 13-year-old Mokhmen al-Gazhali, said the informers were killed one by one, as he mimicked the sound of gunfire.
They said only a few people were in the street at first – most Gazans have been staying indoors because of the Israeli airstrikes – but the crowd quickly grew after the killings. Eventually several hundred men pushed and shoved to get a close look at the bodies, lying in a jumble on the ground. One man spit at the corpses, another kicked the head of one of the dead men.
"They should have been killed in a more brutal fashion so others don't even think about working with the occupation (Israel)," said one of the bystanders, 24-year-old Ashraf Maher.
One body was then tied by a cable to the back of a motorcycle and dragged through the streets. A number of gunmen on motorcycles rode along as the body was pulled past a house of mourning for victims of an Israeli airstrike.
There is broad consensus among Palestinians that informers for Israel deserve harsh punishment, and it is rare to hear someone speak out against killings of alleged collaborators. Such public killings been carried out in the West Bank and Gaza since the first uprising against Israeli occupation in the late 1980s.
In Israel's last major Gaza offensive four years ago, 17 suspected collaborators who fled after their prisons were hit in airstrikes were later shot dead in extra-judicial killings.
During the current offensive, Tuesday's killings brought to eight the number of suspected informers being shot dead in public. On Friday, the body of one alleged informer was found in a garbage bin, and another was shot dead in the street. Hamas claimed responsibility for both killings.
Since seizing Gaza in 2007, Hamas has executed four informers by firing squad, and about a dozen more are on death row in Gaza.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Puckoon on November 20, 2012, 07:59:21 PM
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/os-ed-eugene-robinson-112012-20121119,0,6832845.column (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/os-ed-eugene-robinson-112012-20121119,0,6832845.column)

The drama unfolding in Gaza seems numbingly familiar. This time, however, there's a big and potentially tragic difference: Not even the actors — Palestinians and Israelis — can possibly know how it will turn out.

How many times must they rehash this tired plot? Resentments build, tensions rise. A disputed border incident provides a spark. Israel reacts with sudden force. Palestinians fire rockets at civilian targets. Israel launches reprisal attacks — first justified, then disproportionate. Anguished women wail at the funerals of dead children. Men swear oaths of vengeance, solemn vows that honor and self-respect will never allow them to break.

The usual ending is a cease-fire and a return to the status quo. But the whole Mideast region is undergoing a process of tumultuous change, and there is no guarantee that the stasis considered "normal" in the occupied territories will ever return.

As President Obama noted, Israel has the absolute right to defend itself against rocket attacks whose sole purpose is to terrorize and kill civilians. Israel does not have a right, in my view, to keep Gaza's 2 million residents under permanent blockade as punishment for choosing officials of Hamas, the Islamist group, as their leadership.

Hamas, of course, has no right to launch rockets at Israel knowing they may fall on schools, hospitals and playgrounds. But Israel has no right to use this flare-up as an excuse for what some commentators have called "mowing the grass" — assassinating Palestinian leaders who have proved particularly effective, destroying infrastructure for the sake of destruction, chalking up civilian casualties in Gaza as an unfortunate side effect.

Israel has the right to exist in peace. Palestinians have the right to an independent state. Each side insists on having its rights fully acknowledged before the other side's rights are even considered.

Enough with rights. Someone has to start dealing with new and unfamiliar realities.

Henry Kissinger's famous observation about Israel's security was that there could be no war without Egypt, no peace without Syria. For more than three decades, Israel has had a peace treaty with Egypt, the Arab world's most populous state, and a strictly observed truce with Syria across the Golan Heights. But then came the Arab Spring.

Egyptian dictator Hosni Mubarak is gone, replaced by an elected government whose leaders are members of the once-banned Muslim Brotherhood — an organization that has nurtured and supported Hamas. The new government has pledged to honor the treaty, but it is likely to take the plight of the Palestinians much more seriously than did Mubarak, who saw them not as brothers and sisters but as pawns.

Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad, meanwhile, is fighting for his regime's survival in a civil war. It is quite possible that the country will fracture — and with it, perhaps, the once-sturdy Golan truce.

Throughout the Arab world, religious parties are demanding — and attaining — new power and influence. There are many reasons for this Islamic ascendance, most of which have nothing to do with Israel. But is the continued Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza a contributing factor? Yes, without a doubt, if only because it represents Arab humiliation and provides a focal point for a host of grievances.

Another factor to take into account is the influence Iran now has in Syria and Gaza. One of Israel's aims in the current bombing campaign may be to degrade Iran's ability to retaliate — with rockets fired from Gaza — in case of an Israeli attack on Iranian nuclear facilities. But does anyone really think the regime in Tehran is viewing these events with anything other than smug satisfaction? Perceived Israeli excesses in Gaza — more than 90 people have been killed so far — can only weaken international support for an attack on the nuclear sites.

There are far too many variables for anyone to be confident of what happens next. Perhaps Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh have an exquisite sense of how far they can push before things spin out of control. I hope so.

Both leaders say they want a cease-fire. Once the fighting stops, there must be renewed negotiations toward the obvious two-state solution. The Obama administration should use its power and influence to bring Israelis and Palestinians to the table, kicking and screaming if necessary.

Given the situation, a peace process is likely to be long, bitter and frustrating. But not undertaking one, as everyone should now realize, is much worse.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2012, 08:19:16 PM
According to all the people tweeting out of Gaza right now reporting huge explosions going off everywhere. They are under heavy attack in the area's they dropped the leaflets on

North to the south, east to the west, they are getting a full on attack.

Navy ships are shelling all along the coast.

14 killed in the past 3 hours

This is mental. Mental
there won't be a ceasefire at midnight.
Netanyahu wants to get reelected.

Zionism is insane. 
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: haveaharp on November 20, 2012, 08:25:03 PM
While governments everywhere do nothing, turn a blind eye etc. What about the arab league ?

Seafoid and give her dixie, i admire your passion on the subject, and you both seem to be under the impression (especially seafoid) that something has to change "israel is finished" etc. What do you think is likely to happen ? (Not what do you want to happen)

Disappointed in Obama but should not have expected anything other than the "israel has the right to defend itself" line.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: glens abu on November 20, 2012, 08:54:00 PM
Good turnout at rally in Belfast tonight and mass rally and march planned for Sat so everyone who can make it please try your best to be there and bring someone with you.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on November 20, 2012, 09:44:27 PM
While governments everywhere do nothing, turn a blind eye etc. What about the arab league ?

Seafoid and give her dixie, i admire your passion on the subject, and you both seem to be under the impression (especially seafoid) that something has to change "israel is finished" etc. What do you think is likely to happen ? (Not what do you want to happen)

Disappointed in Obama but should not have expected anything other than the "israel has the right to defend itself" line.

I posted a link to a documentary a couple of pages back. This should answers most of anyones questions. Barack is part of the Israeli mafia that controls American politics. 
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2012, 10:13:23 PM
While governments everywhere do nothing, turn a blind eye etc. What about the arab league ?

Seafoid and give her dixie, i admire your passion on the subject, and you both seem to be under the impression (especially seafoid) that something has to change "israel is finished" etc. What do you think is likely to happen ? (Not what do you want to happen)

Disappointed in Obama but should not have expected anything other than the "israel has the right to defend itself" line.

I think Israel has thrived because of a few factors

- European holocaust guilt
- blind support from the Jewish diaspora
- the Lobby in the States
- Arab weakness
- American Empire
- sympathy from the ordinary people of the West, the romance of it, Exodus, the miracle of making the desert bloom, whatever
-  the peace process

As long as the peace process went on any criticism of Israel could be held at bay. It was a country say a bit like Northern Ireland with a political problem but it was in a process and working for peace and would get there.  Decent people gave Israel the benefit of the doubt in good faith.

Now it is clear the peace process was a joke, an excuse for a land grab .
http://www.aljazeera.com/palestinepapers/

There won't be a Palestinian state. There will instead be apartheid. The Europeans will pick up the tab. Long term Israel will follow Moshe Dayan's advice on how to manage the Palestinians "Treat them like dogs- those who want to can leave". By 2018 there will be over 1 million Jewish settlers in the West Bank. That is just taking the piss.


I think this is a game changer.  Walt and Mearsheimer and Jimmy Carter both wrote important books a few years ago about where Israel was headed and they were slated for antisemitism but they have been proved right.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Israel_Lobby_and_U.S._Foreign_Policy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Not_Apartheid


The ADL is a Jewish charity that was set up to fight racism and bigotry in the US in the 1920s. Now it actively supports Israeli apartheid in the West Bank and Gaza. Hypocrisy is the greatest luxury.

At the moment anyone who is critical of Israel is labeled an antisemite but this insult becomes less and less effective the more Israel's long term strategy is revealed.

What is likely to happen?

First of all Israel will lose support in Europe. Then it is very hard to see younger American Jews who mostly tend towards the Democrats to support an openly racist policy that says that Jews are superior to Palestinians. So I think there will be a widening gap between Israeli Jews and American Jews.   A lot of american Jews don't want to admit that Israel does things like fire white phosphorous on civilians or demolish the homes of non Jews. "Jews wouldn't do that" . But unfortunately they do in Israel. 
 
The cost of the Jewish state now is the abandonment of Jewish ethics. So Israel can take a Machiavellian stance and say "it is not as bad as Somalia" but what is the point of the Jewish state then?  You adopt nihilism and you bless it. For what ?

Looking at the pillars of support

-I think the Germans have paid enough for the holocaust and younger Germans especially will be horrified by apartheid   
-The Jewish diaspora will slowly turn away
-The lobby is a wedge run by a minority- maybe this will hold out longest
-The Arabs are moving to a situation where their governments reflect the thinking of the people and nobody Arab buys Israeli PR.
-The Americans have lost their sole superpower status and China doesn't care about WW2 or owe anything to Israel
-Ordinary people will be turned away by racism and bigotry and apartheid
-There is no peace process

Israeli society will become more extremist and there will be more wars but ultimately Israel won't be able to convince the rest of the world to put up with it.

It is a total mess. 
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2012, 10:41:01 PM
Netanyahu is such a tr**p.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Speeches+by+Israeli+leaders/2012/PM_Netanyahu_meeting_UNSG_Ban_Ki-Moon_20-Nov-2012.htm


"The moment we draw symmetry between the victims of terror and the unintended casualties that result from legitimate military action against the terrorists, the minute that false symmetry is drawn, the terrorists win."

Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 20, 2012, 11:12:35 PM
Sick b**tards.

@IDFSpokesperson: Warning to reporters in Gaza: Stay away from Hamas operatives & facilities. Hamas, a terrorist group, will use you as human shields.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Denn Forever on November 20, 2012, 11:21:04 PM
If we got the 2 state solution and  both sides did not attack each other (No rockets and no more settlements), would either state be viable? 
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2012, 08:43:04 AM
There is a whole  system behind what Israel is doing

http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/american-jews-one-way-ticket-to-the-front-line.premium-1.479238#

It is not at all clear that Lakein, who is not even registered yet as a reservist, will even be needed for service. But this does not seem to faze him. Tomorrow, he says, after a night in Jerusalem at the home of friends, he will go to the induction center, and ask to be allowed to head to the front lines of the offensive. “The Lubavitch rebbe said that 'whoever serves in the IDF gets his place reserved in the world to come.'”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubavitcher
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 21, 2012, 10:31:16 AM
A bus has been hit in Tel Aviv, with 10 people injured. This will be a slight game changer me thinks.....

Retaliation will be swift and brutal in Gaza.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: haveaharp on November 21, 2012, 10:31:25 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20425352 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20425352)

Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 21, 2012, 10:58:12 AM
This is a link to my web site where there are 3 live stream channels set up:

http://gazatvnews.com/gaza-live-stream/

1 is an English guy, Harry Fear reporting live. There is a live stream of the Gaza skyline
where you can hear the various aircraft roaming the skies bombing Gaza. The 3rd is
the Al Jazeera channel.

This is my facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/GazaTVNews

Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/GazaTVNews

I have 4 different people in Gaza as admins, and they are reporting live as attacks take place.

The power of social media in the past week has been huge as the truth is out 30 minutes before the main stream get hold of the story. There are some heroes in Gaza who have been working around the clock blogging and tweeting about the reality of this current massacre, and I have been retweeting and posting their links all week. 
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: nrico2006 on November 21, 2012, 11:17:51 AM
Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Nally Stand on November 21, 2012, 11:25:20 AM
Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.

I would say where the anger is directed at on this thread is in direct proportion to the events as they have unfolded. 5 Israelis killed compared to over 140 Palestinians, over 20% of whom were children? What do you expect, a wishy-washy discussion where we pretend both sides are just as bad as each other?
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 21, 2012, 11:32:35 AM
Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.

No Israeli nationals were dragged around by motorbikes. Get your facts right.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Denn Forever on November 21, 2012, 11:46:43 AM
A new low.  Sympathy for the Gaza crisis is hard to maintain when you see that.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Ulick on November 21, 2012, 12:07:54 PM
Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.

For all the Israeli technology, the targeted bombings such as the one that killed Ahmed al-Jabari could not happen without collaborators and informers on the ground pointing out the targets. Lowest of the low. Harrowing to see their bodies dragged through the streets but IMO understandable in a desperate situation when you want others to think twice before taking the shekel. 
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: nrico2006 on November 21, 2012, 12:10:22 PM
Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.

I would say where the anger is directed at on this thread is in direct proportion to the events as they have unfolded. 5 Israelis killed compared to over 140 Palestinians, over 20% of whom were children? What do you expect, a wishy-washy discussion where we pretend both sides are just as bad as each other?

Both sides are obviously as bad as each other, murder is murder.  From the news reports I have seen, it seems that all this has started up again due to rockets being launched from Gaza into Israel. 
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: nrico2006 on November 21, 2012, 12:12:08 PM
Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.

No Israeli nationals were dragged around by motorbikes. Get your facts right.

Really sorry there.  Does it make any difference what their nationality is?  They were brutally murdered due to a perceived link to Israel.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Nally Stand on November 21, 2012, 12:35:39 PM
Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.

I would say where the anger is directed at on this thread is in direct proportion to the events as they have unfolded. 5 Israelis killed compared to over 140 Palestinians, over 20% of whom were children? What do you expect, a wishy-washy discussion where we pretend both sides are just as bad as each other?

Both sides are obviously as bad as each other, murder is murder. From the news reports I have seen, it seems that all this has started up again due to rockets being launched from Gaza into Israel.

As the old saying goes, "never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level then beat you with experience."

So I think I'll just leave you to it.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: glens abu on November 21, 2012, 12:36:21 PM
Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.

No Israeli nationals were dragged around by motorbikes. Get your facts right.

Really sorry there.  Does it make any difference what their nationality is?  They were brutally murdered due to a perceived link to Israel.

Ok then so the allies during the war were as bad as the Germans[Houlacust and all]  because the French shot people who collaborated with the Germans, >:(load of balls
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2012, 12:38:09 PM
A new low.  Sympathy for the Gaza crisis is hard to maintain when you see that.

10% of the kids in Gaza are severely malnourished. The Strip will be unfit for human habitation by 2020. 95% of the water is undrinkable .

Gaza has been systematically de developed by Israel

http://www.palestine-studies.org/files/pdf/jps/1069.pdf
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: nrico2006 on November 21, 2012, 01:08:59 PM
Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.

No Israeli nationals were dragged around by motorbikes. Get your facts right.

Really sorry there.  Does it make any difference what their nationality is?  They were brutally murdered due to a perceived link to Israel.

Ok then so the allies during the war were as bad as the Germans[Houlacust and all]  because the French shot people who collaborated with the Germans, >:(load of balls

Those pictures of the men dragging a body around by motorbike are as harrowing as I am likely to see.  How can their actions be seen any differently than the other sides? 
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: nrico2006 on November 21, 2012, 01:13:00 PM
Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.

I would say where the anger is directed at on this thread is in direct proportion to the events as they have unfolded. 5 Israelis killed compared to over 140 Palestinians, over 20% of whom were children? What do you expect, a wishy-washy discussion where we pretend both sides are just as bad as each other?

Both sides are obviously as bad as each other, murder is murder. From the news reports I have seen, it seems that all this has started up again due to rockets being launched from Gaza into Israel.

As the old saying goes, "never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level then beat you with experience."

So I think I'll just leave you to it.

Good lad.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Denn Forever on November 21, 2012, 01:14:30 PM
I am not arguing that things are sh*t in Gaza.  I was just commenting on the dragging of the body through the street behind a motorbike.  I fear now for the families of these collaborators.

It is hard to hear about Democracy in this conflict.  The lesson learned is that we should strive for democracy as long as it is the democracy we think is right.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: glens abu on November 21, 2012, 01:15:30 PM
Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.

No Israeli nationals were dragged around by motorbikes. Get your facts right.

Really sorry there.  Does it make any difference what their nationality is?  They were brutally murdered due to a perceived link to Israel.

Ok then so the allies during the war were as bad as the Germans[Houlacust and all]  because the French shot people who collaborated with the Germans, >:(load of balls

Those pictures of the men dragging a body around by motorbike are as harrowing as I am likely to see.  How can their actions be seen any differently than the other sides?

Well I just wish I was able to post the photos of the many mutilated children that I have seen from Gaza in the past week,children who did nothing and not part of the war unlike the collaborators who were shot.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2012, 01:38:03 PM
The use of collaborators is one of the many disturbing aspects of Israeli apartheid. Collaborators are often blackmailed into working for Israel or given special privileges and have a very high mortality rate . 

http://www.btselem.org/English/Testimonies/20080911_Muhammad_Khawajah_age_12_detained_by_IDF.asp

Testimony: 12-year-old beaten and imprisoned with adults, Sept. '08
Muhammad Khawajah, 12

I live with my family in Ni'lin. We live on the ground floor of the house, my two uncles and their families live on the first floor, and my grandmother lives on the second floor. Last Thursday [11 September], around 3:00 A.M., I woke up from my mother's shouts. She was shouting, "Get up! Get up! The army is here!" My father wasn't home that night. I got up and went out with her to the inner courtyard of the house. There were about 12 soldiers there, and their faces were painted black. One soldier wore a black hat that covered his face. He sat on the stairs outside the house and didn't take part. I think he was a collaborator who led them to houses. The soldiers were on the first floor. I heard them tell my Uncle Sami to direct them to our floor. One of the soldiers asked, "Where is Muhammad?", and I realized he was asking about me. The soldier told my uncle to call me, so he did. I started walking towards them. Two soldiers grabbed me and took me outside. I realized they wanted to arrest me. I was afraid, and began to cry, and called my uncle to come with me.
The soldiers cuffed my hands tight with plastic handcuffs, which hurt a lot. A soldier grabbed me by the shirt from behind and started walking and pushing me forward. The shirt was up against my neck and I couldn't breathe properly. I tried to free myself, and he punched me in the back and pulled the shirt tighter, choking me even more. Another soldier also punched me and pulled my hair as we walked. I cried and called out for my uncle and my father. The soldiers hit me and said, "Quiet! Quiet!" They led me to an alleyway between the houses, where there are cactuses. We were walking by some cactuses and then one of the soldiers pushed me into them. The thorns pricked me in the hands and legs. The soldiers kept on pushing me forward and hitting me along the way.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/13/israelandthepalestinians.middleeast

From a plastic chair on his front porch Samir looked out over a garden neatly planted with rose bushes. In this house Samir, his wife, and five of their children are living a new life, surrounded by Jewish Israeli neighbours and, like them, in the firing line of the makeshift Palestinian rockets that target the Israeli town of Sderot. Last year one of these Qassam rockets fired only a couple of miles away in Gaza crashed into his garden, sending shrapnel up the front of the house.  Samir is not his real name, for this heavy-set, 52-year-old Palestinian is scared to reveal his true identity. This is his fresh start, his reward after working for more than 20 years in secret in his native Gaza as a collaborator with the Israeli security forces. "I don't regret any of my story," he said. "I'm very happy that I helped the state of Israel. Here everything is straightforward, not like with the Arabs. Here there is a law and there are rights." Many of Sderot's residents are trying to sell their houses and move to safer towns beyond the reach of the rockets. But Palestinians such as Samir are moving in, in part because property is cheaper but also because there are others like them here, a community of perhaps 80 collaborators - they prefer to use a Hebrew word that translates as "assistants" - and their close relatives.
Most arrived before the rockets, when Sderot was simply an inexpensive Israeli town close to the Gaza border and convenient for occasional family visits. Those visits are now too dangerous and most of the Palestinians in Sderot now acknowledge they can never go home. Samir was caught in 1994, the year that Yasser Arafat returned to Gaza in the wake of the Oslo peace accords. A friend and distant relative had given up Samir's name during a brutal interrogation. Samir had spent years giving the Israelis whatever information he could find about the armed groups and their planned attacks, work he kept secret even from his wife. But Palestinian collaborators risk death if they are caught by their own people. 




http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1000976.html

 Jody Kollapen, who was head of Lawyers for Human Rights in the apartheid regime, watches silently. He sees the "carousel" into which masses of people are jammed on their way to work, visit family or go to the hospital. Israeli peace activist Neta Golan, who lived for several years in the besieged city, explains that only 1 percent of the inhabitants are allowed to leave the city by car, and they are suspected of being collaborators with Israel . Nozizwe Madlala-Routledge, a former deputy minister of defense and of health and a current member of Parliament, a revered figure in her country, notices a sick person being taken through on a stretcher and is shocked. "To deprive people of humane medical care? You know, people die because of that," she says in a muted voice. 



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/25/palestinian-collaborator-jailed

Hers is a grim story of an unhappy life and naivety. Enticed out of the occupied West Bank and into Israel, then plunged into a high-risk spying effort that lasted for five months until her capture, Tibi was lucky to escape with her life: collaborators, who are nearly always men, are so reviled among Palestinians that many are either shot in the street or sentenced to years on death row.
She did not speak to journalists after her hearing last week, but accounts from prosecutors involved in her case paint a scattered picture of Tibi's life. Originally from Tulkarem, she was living with her family in Nablus, in the north of the occupied West Bank. She attended school until the age of 16 but then her father ordered her to marry an older man. It was an unhappy marriage: she told the court that he had forced her into prostitution. Within a few years she was divorced and increasingly cut off from her family.
Several months ago Tibi met an Arab-Israeli in Nablus, named Mahmoud, who persuaded her to join him on a trip back into Israel. She agreed, though it should perhaps have raised her suspicions when he arranged a rare permit for her to leave the West Bank.
The couple slept together and then he took her to an office in Tel Aviv, where Israeli security service agents apparently confronted her with a video of her in bed with the man, the prosecutors said. They threatened to pass the video back to her family unless she helped them and also apparently promised her 100,000 shekels (£15,500) if she would pass them regular information about a group of militants in Nablus.

Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: ballinaman on November 21, 2012, 01:38:55 PM
Unreal stuff....

http://www.economist.com/node/21566931
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Nally Stand on November 21, 2012, 01:45:28 PM
Unreal stuff....

http://www.economist.com/node/21566931


From above sourse:
"Total number of Israelis killed by rocket, mortar or anti-tank fire from Gaza since 2006: 47
(Source: Wikipedia. This is disputed; another source says 26)

Number of Palestinians in Gaza killed by Israeli fire from April 1st 2006 to July 21st 2012: 2,879"
[/i]


 ::) :-\ ::) :-\ ::) :-\ ::) :-\
Both sides are obviously as bad as each other
::):-\ ::) :-\ ::) :-\ ::) :-\
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 21, 2012, 01:47:10 PM
Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.

No Israeli nationals were dragged around by motorbikes. Get your facts right.

Really sorry there.  Does it make any difference what their nationality is?  They were brutally murdered due to a perceived link to Israel.

It made a difference as you tried to portray that the men were Israeli's. Yes it is sad to see, and wrong, but if you could only imagine the situation on the ground there, you would maybe understand why it was done. Several houses have been hit, and people killed, and it was informers who provided the locations. It went on here as well.

If you think that that image is the worst thing you have ever seen, try having a look at some of the images coming out of Gaza. Take your pick from images of burn babies. Babies in parts. Amputee's,  etc, etc, etc. They are beyond words I can assure you.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Hardy on November 21, 2012, 01:59:12 PM
What a sick auction is going on here.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on November 21, 2012, 02:11:35 PM
Unreal stuff....

http://www.economist.com/node/21566931
A lot of quotes there from the I.D.F. they don't give high enough figures for Palestinian deaths caused by Israel. My brother visited a children's hospital recently in Gaza where it was full of youngsters dying with cancer from contaminated water. Also Gaza has a very high suicide rate caused by a psychological war waged on the Gazan people. The air in Gaza is always full of f16's and drones randomly killing people. The wall which is three times bigger and longer than the Berlin wall. Has a buffer zone if you approach the wall you get shot. Their is also restrictions on how far people can fish of the coast of Gaza before being murdered by the I.D.F. Israel is arguably the most racist sectarian place on earth. I cringe when I hear it being called a democracy.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on November 21, 2012, 02:19:07 PM
"Both sides are as bad as each other" is both totally disgusting and morally wrong. An unbelievable comment. If thats how the average observer views what  is happening in Palestine what hope do they have.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Puckoon on November 21, 2012, 02:50:55 PM
"Both sides are as bad as each other" is both totally disgusting and morally wrong. An unbelievable comment.

It may be wrong to play the Devil's advocate while people are being murdered and rockets are being fired - but in the interests of furthering the understanding of the "average observer", I feel there are a few points that the very very pro Palestinian fellas on here need to either address - or at a minimum understand how it can look that way.

GHD and I argued quite a bit a few months back about the situation, and I've since tried to dig a little deeper into the history, motives and actions, to try and understand for myself the complexities. I wouldn't say I have succeeded - but I am not prepared to take either the Hasbara as Seafoid likes to say, nor the absolution of Palestinian (Hamas) blame that exists here at 100% face value.

The fact remains that there are two sides to this story. No matter if you're a gaaboarder pro palestine, nor an American real life friend who's pro Israel.

Questions leveled at me in recent days when I have been criticising the Israeli actions include the following.

1. Nally, forgive the wikipedia reference - but since you used it, here is one:
This year alone there have been almost 2000 rockets fired at Israel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2012 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2012)

The question was - how many rockets do you allow to be fired at your civilian population before you react? Can anyone give an answer to this one?

2. The Hamas Covenant/Charter.
I'd like to think this is outdated - but Hamas refuse to change the wording for "internal reasons" (see "WTF?"). In it, it calls for the the total destruction of the Jews by Jihad, and the "obliteraton or dissolution of Israel". It "calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories".

Question 2 - how does a country deal with an enemy who has embedded in their business plan that your total destruction is their goal?

Now, can anyone see a parallel in these words and in the actions of Israel currently? It seems to me, that both sides would be happy to obliterate the other off the map both in their words and actions. It also seems to me that one side is winning and as such we are up in arms about it. Does Hamas want peace fellas? Or do they want to destroy Israel? What the f**k is going on over there?

There is certainly no spin, nor bias in the death toll - but how about a bit of honesty regarding motivation. Long term motivation and recent history that has led to the present day situation?

I'm all ears.

BTW Seafoid - I enjoyed reading your post yesterday where you added a little detail as to what you think will happen. It was more honest, balanced, informative and less sniperish than anything I've read from you before on the topic.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 21, 2012, 02:57:53 PM
This is footage of the football stadium in Gaza that Israel destroyed a few hours ago.

They have also destroyed several Govenment building. These buildings contain very important records on births deaths etc, etc. Thus wiping out records of their official existence in Palestine

This is pure evil at work before our very eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8amgsXRdZQ
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 21, 2012, 03:21:45 PM
3 days go .. This guy's house that has 4 of his kids , his wife and 3 of his brothers.
He used to joke and play with his kids .. on that day he was joking with his kids saying ' I'm mad at you sons, don't talk to me for the whole day ' and went out the house to buy them some sweets.

5 minutes later he heard a massive explosion near his house, he was running like crazy to see what's going on. He found out the whole house being bombed on his kids and wife. He got a heart attack. And fell down on the ground. His small heart couldn't handle seeing anything after what he saw. He couldn't imagine seeing his wife , his kids being killed into parts. 6 hours later he woke up and found his kids over that bed. He went crazy. He lost his mind. He sat beside them and said " Wake up sons I know you're kidding me. This is not funny anymore .. I got you sweets. come on. He thought they will wake up. But they didn't." He lost all his kids, brothers and wife. But He'd never realized that. Because he lost his mind too
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2012, 03:27:39 PM
"Both sides are as bad as each other" is both totally disgusting and morally wrong. An unbelievable comment.

It may be wrong to play the Devil's advocate while people are being murdered and rockets are being fired - but in the interests of furthering the understanding of the "average observer", I feel there are a few points that the very very pro Palestinian fellas on here need to either address - or at a minimum understand how it can look that way.

GHD and I argued quite a bit a few months back about the situation, and I've since tried to dig a little deeper into the history, motives and actions, to try and understand for myself the complexities. I wouldn't say I have succeeded - but I am not prepared to take either the Hasbara as Seafoid likes to say, nor the absolution of Palestinian (Hamas) blame that exists here at 100% face value.

The fact remains that there are two sides to this story. No matter if you're a gaaboarder pro palestine, nor an American real life friend who's pro Israel.

Questions leveled at me in recent days when I have been criticising the Israeli actions include the following.

1. Nally, forgive the wikipedia reference - but since you used it, here is one:
This year alone there have been almost 2000 rockets fired at Israel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2012 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2012)

The question was - how many rockets do you allow to be fired at your civilian population before you react? Can anyone give an answer to this one?

2. The Hamas Covenant/Charter.
I'd like to think this is outdated - but Hamas refuse to change the wording for "internal reasons" (see "WTF?"). In it, it calls for the the total destruction of the Jews by Jihad, and the "obliteraton or dissolution of Israel". It "calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories".

Question 2 - how does a country deal with an enemy who has embedded in their business plan that your total destruction is their goal?

Now, can anyone see a parallel in these words and in the actions of Israel currently? It seems to me, that both sides would be happy to obliterate the other off the map both in their words and actions. It also seems to me that one side is winning and as such we are up in arms about it. Does Hamas want peace fellas? Or do they want to destroy Israel? What the f**k is going on over there?

There is certainly no spin, nor bias in the death toll - but how about a bit of honesty regarding motivation. Long term motivation and recent history that has led to the present day situation?

I'm all ears.

BTW Seafoid - I enjoyed reading your post yesterday where you added a little detail as to what you think will happen. It was more honest, balanced, informative and less sniperish than anything I've read from you before on the topic.

Puckoon

The rockets don't happen in isolation. You have to look at the whole system

There are 10 million people in Greater Israel which is Gaza, Israel, the West Bank and East Jerusalem . 5 million are Jews and 5 million are palestinians. The palestinians are divided into 5 groups- 4 of them live in greater Israel

1 Those with Israeli passports
2 East Jerusalem Palestinians
3 "West Bank" Palestinians
4 Gazans
5 Refugees in other countries
 
Only the crowd in 1 have anything like the same rights as Jews in Israel.

All are discriminated against. East Jerusalem palestinians aren't allowed to build houses and are discriminated against in the jobs market. West Bankers are not allowed to use the roads. Gazans are not given enough to eat. 95% of their water is undrinkable. The sewage system of Gaza was destroyed by Israel in 2009. Their sports facilities are now being bombed.
Refugees in group 5 aren't even allowed into Israel.

The rockets are a symptom of the dysfunction, not a cause.

Regarding your second point

Hamas Foreign Minister: We Accept Two-State Solution With '67 BordersMay 17 2011
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/05/24/136403918/hamas-foreign-minister-we-accept-two-state-solution-with-67-borders


The problem is not Hamas. The problem is the system and the Zionist insistence that ALL of the land is Jewish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPVTC9frqMA
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: southdown on November 21, 2012, 03:35:57 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20425352

The media are winding me up on this.  Headline about bus bomb in Israel with several hurt, further down they mention the 11 Palestinians have been killed.  BBC have been utterly shameful so far in their reporting IMVHO.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Cold tea on November 21, 2012, 03:38:26 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20425352

The media are winding me up on this.  Headline about bus bomb in Israel with several hurt, further down they mention the 11 Palestinians have been killed.  BBC have been utterly shameful so far in their reporting IMVHO.

+1 David Beckam got more headlines, shameful reporting altogether.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2012, 03:55:06 PM
Israel the loser in all of this

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/netanyahu-s-alibi-for-conceding-to-hamas.premium-1.479369#

"Netanyahu and Lieberman came to power in no small measure because of Operation Cast Lead. The residents of the south voted in their masses for the pair, who had taken Olmert and Livni to task for their failure to get rid of Hamas. The challengers from Likud and Yisrael Beiteinu promised in every setting before the 2009 elections that they would accomplish what Olmert and Livni didn't. Ultimately, their own past criticisms have come crashing into the reality of the present. What remains of their fiery speeches is the understanding of the limits of force.
What remained for Netanyahu to do at the Sde Boker ceremony was present his alibi to the south's residents and Likud's voters. What remained was for him to explain why he was willing to settle for a cease-fire that included concessions to a terrorist organization, rather than overthrowing Hamas as he had promised.

Netanyahu's first line of defense was to underline the accomplishments of the past week. We had hit the leaders of the terrorists, destroyed thousands of missiles, we had hit Hamas installations and restored deterrence. Netanyahu's second line of defense was to explain the complications that made him reluctant to launch a ground operation in Gaza. "Israel is at the heart of an unstable, complex and dangerous region ... and we must act with diplomatic wisdom," he said. His third line of defense was to repeat election promises to residents of the south: We will look after you, repair the damage and give you compensation.

Although the exit strategy from Pillar of Defense is almost identical to the one from Cast Lead, the balance of power it leaves between Israel and Hamas is worse. Rocket fire on Jerusalem and Tel Aviv and a parade of Arab foreign ministers to the Gaza Strip, giving legitimacy to Hamas, are just two examples.
"


I would say that losing Stew says it all for Israel

Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Puckoon on November 21, 2012, 04:01:22 PM
Seafoid - I  have dug deep enough to have uncovered the 2008 Hamas statement on accepting the two state solution with 1967 borders. My point is that many who read the news (American news in particular) have not, and that the Hamas decision to not change the charter is no way to garner any kind of western support. Then again, the charter also states that conferences and treaties and talks are all a waste of time and that the only solution is through Jihad. I wish I was making it up. But I'm not.

Far out example:
Catholic Ireland writes a charter stating that the destruction of England, and the obliteration of the protestant people is our goal. Then we say - ah, we don't really mean that literally, its more a figure of speech - but....... we aren't changing it.

You see how it looks? Could you really blame themmuns for not trusting us?

Maybe a different question could be "Are Hamas doing anything to further peace in the area"?


Another question re 1967 - what is your opinion on how that war started and ultimately led to Israel being an occupier for the last 40 years?
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 140 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 21, 2012, 04:06:32 PM
The BBC have been shameful in their coverage, but hey, what did we really expect.

Just watching the BBC news now and they have had the bus bomb as the headline story.
Several Palestinians, including children have been killed today and it is a non story for the BBC

I don't know if anyone read the Irish News, but BBC NI decided to pull the programme "Shalom Belfast". It was due to be broadcast on Monday night. They are pathetic

Maybe they didn't want to embarrass the people who show their support for Israel, and Gordon from Co Down who converts to a jew and goes to live in a settlement. He says in the show when asked about taking someones house in Palestine: "Their holiday is over. It's time they left"

Here is a short clip from the documentary they decided to shelve

http://www.triplevision.co.uk/2012/02/shalom-belfast/
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2012, 04:25:59 PM
Seafoid - I  have dug deep enough to have uncovered the 2008 Hamas statement on accepting the two state solution with 1967 borders. My point is that many who read the news (American news in particular) have not, and that the Hamas decision to not change the charter is no way to garner any kind of western support. Then again, the charter also states that conferences and treaties and talks are all a waste of time and that the only solution is through Jihad. I wish I was making it up. But I'm not.

Far out example:
Catholic Ireland writes a charter stating that the destruction of England, and the obliteration of the protestant people is our goal. Then we say - ah, we don't really mean that literally, its more a figure of speech - but....... we aren't changing it.

You see how it looks? Could you really blame themmuns for not trusting us?

Maybe a different question could be "Are Hamas doing anything to further peace in the area"?


Another question re 1967 - what is your opinion on how that war started and ultimately led to Israel being an occupier for the last 40 years?


Puckoon

Articles 2 & 3 of the constitution were there until a referendum in 1999 once the peace process got underway
They claimed the wee 6 for the republic.  A lot of Prods up there didn't like it but they didn't carpet bomb us.
they didn't destroy Croke Park.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_2_and_3_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

They went when the time was appropriate. I don't see the big deal about the Hamas Charter given our own history TBH.
 
The 67 war started because it was always the plan to take all of the land. Egypt was attacked by Israel not vice versa.
They wanted the West Bank post 48 and the shakham plan to take it was formulated in 1963.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08BrEQKn_qo&list=UU2z1N-0W9zMmtMkEnmaSlRQ&index=10&feature=plcp


If they didn't want the land why are there 800,000 settlers there now? 

They thought they could do a repeat of 1948 but they got it wrong.

It is a real Jewish tragedy  , the whole mess. But nobody could stop them. 

People think Israel /Palestine is no different to Northern Ireland 20 years ago  but it isn't.
Israel is like Ulster in 1650.

Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Ulick on November 21, 2012, 04:44:19 PM
The question was - how many rockets do you allow to be fired at your civilian population before you react? Can anyone give an answer to this one?

Depend on the definition of "rocket". 2000 rockets with 3 fatalities suggest they're about as lethal as the rockets we see fired at the PSNI every July. In fact Malta has more people killed by fireworks every year than are killed by these rockets in Israel.

Question 2 - how does a country deal with an enemy who has embedded in their business plan that your total destruction is their goal?

Ignore them and trust in democracy. The same could be said about the anarchist movement and global capitaism, North Korea and South Korea, RSF/CIRA and Northern Ireland - no one seriously believes Hamas has the ability to inflict more than a few fatalities on Israel never mind total destruction of the state.


On the who started it propaganda war I've found the following enlightening. Basically the rockets fired from Gaza are usually preceeded by fatalities in Gaza from projectiles fired by the Israelis:

http://blog.thejerusalemfund.org/2012/02/half-story-what-idfspokesperson-leaves.html (http://blog.thejerusalemfund.org/2012/02/half-story-what-idfspokesperson-leaves.html)

"As you can see in the chart [below], increases in the red line, which signifies Palestinian casualties, typically precede increases in the blue line, which signifies launches of projectiles from Gaza. This is particularly evident before the most significant spikes in the blue line. This suggests that Palestinian launches may be explained, in part, as a response to Israeli projectiles which kill or injure Palestinians."

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Puckoon on November 21, 2012, 04:45:03 PM

 
The 67 war started because it was always the plan to take all of the land. Egypt was attacked by Israel not vice versa.

This seems to be the crux, wouldn't you say? It also seems to be the area where historical opinons differ regarding the events that led to the attack. As they used to say - get your retaliation in first.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Puckoon on November 21, 2012, 04:47:04 PM
The question was - how many rockets do you allow to be fired at your civilian population before you react? Can anyone give an answer to this one?

Depend on the definition of "rocket". 2000 rockets with 3 fatalities suggest they're about as lethal as the rockets we see fired at the PSNI every July. In fact Malta has more people killed by fireworks every year than are killed by these rockets in Israel.


I've often wondered why their success rate is so low. I don't attribute it to them firing off Roman Candles though?
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 21, 2012, 05:12:05 PM
There is a lot of talk about a ceasefire been agreed. Lets hope it's true
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2012, 06:04:26 PM

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/live-blog-day-8-of-israel-gaza-conflict-2012-1.479350

Egypt has announced that Israel and Hamas had agreed to a cease-fire to end eight days of fighting. Hundreds of rockets were fired into southern Israel, killing killed five Israelis, while IDF strikes in Gaza killed more than 140 Palestinians.

UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton arrived in Israel on Tuesday, to help the sides reach a cease-fire.


I this is true then Hillary has been squeezing Bibi's nuts. This is a climbdown for him.
I wonder if it linked to the Palestinian vote at the UN at the end of the month. Is there some deal they have cooked to avoid Israelis being dragged to the Hague.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Ulick on November 21, 2012, 06:23:10 PM
I wouldn't say it's a climbdown, in fact I'd say he'd no intention of a ground invasion. The IDF simply have no credible targets left. Continued bombing just creates more innocent victims which not even the famed hasbara can counter. The Palestinians have been given another bloody nose and the Egyptians have been shown who is boss. Job done!
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Itchy on November 21, 2012, 06:27:59 PM
Seafood- I assume you've no problem calling the people who put a bomb on a public bus in tel Aviv murderers and cowards, targeting civilians in breech of the Geneva convention. Were probably women and children on that bus. Hamas then praised the attack, what do you think about that seafood.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Ulick on November 21, 2012, 06:33:09 PM
Seafood- I assume you've no problem calling the people who put a bomb on a public bus in tel Aviv murderers and cowards, targeting civilians in breech of the Geneva convention. Were probably women and children on that bus. Hamas then praised the attack, what do you think about that seafood.

Where they targeting civilians though - I read the bus was next to the IDF Headquaters so it could be argued that they were targeting the IDF and some civilians were injured as collateral damage. That's what the IDF are arguing is happening in Gaza isn't it?
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: tyssam5 on November 21, 2012, 06:33:18 PM
The question was - how many rockets do you allow to be fired at your civilian population before you react? Can anyone give an answer to this one?

Depend on the definition of "rocket". 2000 rockets with 3 fatalities suggest they're about as lethal as the rockets we see fired at the PSNI every July. In fact Malta has more people killed by fireworks every year than are killed by these rockets in Israel.


I've often wondered why their success rate is so low. I don't attribute it to them firing off Roman Candles though?

Since they've killed a few people this time I'm sure there is plenty of variation in 'rocket quality', but I stayed in Askelon in 2007 and they showed me where a 'rocket' had hit the hotel car-park. The Tarmac wasn't even damaged, looked like someone had skid a motor-bike.
A few longer range efforts have got a lot of publicity, but the vast majority don't go more than 10 or so miles and apart from a couple of small towns, it's empty desert or maybe some farms to the North.

The West Bank as portrayed in maps doesn't exist, the small towns and cities there have been separated/ghettoized and the idea seems to be to make a Palestinian state unfeasible. Israel has the power right now and there are plenty of right wing Zionists who want all that land (the whole country is tiny). Delays in the proposed 2 state settlement will be used make further territorial gains.

Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Rossfan on November 21, 2012, 06:37:40 PM
Itchy, what do you call people who fire big rockets and bombs into multi story buildings occupied by hundreds of civilians - at least 70% of them women and children?
Do you consider them to be fair game ?
RTE news gave the bus attack with 20 wounded first mention and added as an afterthought that 11 ppeople were killed in Gaza.
So 20 wounded Israelis are more newsworthy than 11 dead Palestinians. :-\
Same oul hierarchy of victims sh1te from the Western media. :(
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2012, 06:43:16 PM
Seafood- I assume you've no problem calling the people who put a bomb on a public bus in tel Aviv murderers and cowards, targeting civilians in breech of the Geneva convention. Were probably women and children on that bus. Hamas then praised the attack, what do you think about that seafood.
Obviously. It is not right to target civilians, but I'd love to see Israel take international law seriously as well.
WTF are 800,000 Jews doing in the Palestinian occupied territories ? 

Bringing in the GC is a bit of as joke really seeing as Israeli ignores them. 
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: tyssam5 on November 21, 2012, 06:53:07 PM
The question was - how many rockets do you allow to be fired at your civilian population before you react? Can anyone give an answer to this one?

Depend on the definition of "rocket". 2000 rockets with 3 fatalities suggest they're about as lethal as the rockets we see fired at the PSNI every July. In fact Malta has more people killed by fireworks every year than are killed by these rockets in Israel.


See link to economist article posted earlier. IDF states that only 35 out of 848 projectiles fell on 'non-empty' areas. So my guess on that was close enough, add other observation about lack of lethality of many and you have your answer.

I've often wondered why their success rate is so low. I don't attribute it to them firing off Roman Candles though?
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Itchy on November 21, 2012, 08:02:50 PM
Itchy, what do you call people who fire big rockets and bombs into multi story buildings occupied by hundreds of civilians - at least 70% of them women and children?
Do you consider them to be fair game ?
RTE news gave the bus attack with 20 wounded first mention and added as an afterthought that 11 ppeople were killed in Gaza.
So 20 wounded Israelis are more newsworthy than 11 dead Palestinians. :-\
Same oul hierarchy of victims sh1te from the Western media. :(

Well Rossfan, I call people who fire missiles into buildings of civilians cowardly murderers. Just because I think Hamas joy at blowing up a bus is sick doesn't automatically mean I'm a supporter of Israel. Just means there are plenty of murdering cowards on both sides. It is however interesting to read the relatively lukewarm criticism of Hamas by seafood when he copies and pastes endless articles when Israel is the aggressor. For what its worth I do believe Israel is the biggest aggressor but its not the only one.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2012, 08:24:10 PM
Itchy, what do you call people who fire big rockets and bombs into multi story buildings occupied by hundreds of civilians - at least 70% of them women and children?
Do you consider them to be fair game ?
RTE news gave the bus attack with 20 wounded first mention and added as an afterthought that 11 ppeople were killed in Gaza.
So 20 wounded Israelis are more newsworthy than 11 dead Palestinians. :-\
Same oul hierarchy of victims sh1te from the Western media. :(

Well Rossfan, I call people who fire missiles into buildings of civilians cowardly murderers. Just because I think Hamas joy at blowing up a bus is sick doesn't automatically mean I'm a supporter of Israel. Just means there are plenty of murdering cowards on both sides. It is however interesting to read the relatively lukewarm criticism of Hamas by seafood when he copies and pastes endless articles when Israel is the aggressor. For what its worth I do believe Israel is the biggest aggressor but its not the only one.
Is that you BalldeBeaver?

Israel is the aggressor BTW. If the Brits kept Fermanagh under lockdown and allowed only 2000 calories in per head for over 6 years and trashed the county's water system and had 10% of kids badly malnourished as official policy I would consider the Brits to be out of order. 
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: CiKe on November 21, 2012, 08:55:13 PM
I wouldn't be next or near as informed as most of ye, but i'd like to think i could see through the propaganda.

I'm not sure I agree with all of you on that the BEEB is wilfully taking sides however. Unfortunately, like it or not, actual Israeli deaths/injuries are less common which in some respects make them more reportable than the more common suffering of Palestinians in Gaza. To be clear, I'm not saying this is right or that I agree with this hierarchy of victims - far from it.

That said, unintentionally I think the BEEB gave a succinct insight into the day to day last night. Admittedly I didn't watch the whole of the 22:00 news, but I could have sworn that during the first few minutes they showed destroyed buildings, piles of rubble and smoke rising across Gaza. Juxtaposed against this was a hole in an Israeli roof and a 6inch hole in the ground beneath it, about the size where'd you'd maybe put a flower pot. Not exactly proportionate response shall we say.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Itchy on November 21, 2012, 10:00:22 PM
Itchy, what do you call people who fire big rockets and bombs into multi story buildings occupied by hundreds of civilians - at least 70% of them women and children?
Do you consider them to be fair game ?
RTE news gave the bus attack with 20 wounded first mention and added as an afterthought that 11 ppeople were killed in Gaza.
So 20 wounded Israelis are more newsworthy than 11 dead Palestinians. :-\
Same oul hierarchy of victims sh1te from the Western media. :(

Well Rossfan, I call people who fire missiles into buildings of civilians cowardly murderers. Just because I think Hamas joy at blowing up a bus is sick doesn't automatically mean I'm a supporter of Israel. Just means there are plenty of murdering cowards on both sides. It is however interesting to read the relatively lukewarm criticism of Hamas by seafood when he copies and pastes endless articles when Israel is the aggressor. For what its worth I do believe Israel is the biggest aggressor but its not the only one.
Is that you BalldeBeaver?

Israel is the aggressor BTW. If the Brits kept Fermanagh under lockdown and allowed only 2000 calories in per head for over 6 years and trashed the county's water system and had 10% of kids badly malnourished as official policy I would consider the Brits to be out of order.

You're either with me or against me right seafood? perhaps if you read my post youd see i did indicate israel is aggressor. However, you do the Palestinian plight no favours with your complete inability to be genuinely critical of Hamas and the fundamentalist religious shite they spout.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2012, 10:14:17 PM
Itchy, what do you call people who fire big rockets and bombs into multi story buildings occupied by hundreds of civilians - at least 70% of them women and children?
Do you consider them to be fair game ?
RTE news gave the bus attack with 20 wounded first mention and added as an afterthought that 11 ppeople were killed in Gaza.
So 20 wounded Israelis are more newsworthy than 11 dead Palestinians. :-\
Same oul hierarchy of victims sh1te from the Western media. :(

Well Rossfan, I call people who fire missiles into buildings of civilians cowardly murderers. Just because I think Hamas joy at blowing up a bus is sick doesn't automatically mean I'm a supporter of Israel. Just means there are plenty of murdering cowards on both sides. It is however interesting to read the relatively lukewarm criticism of Hamas by seafood when he copies and pastes endless articles when Israel is the aggressor. For what its worth I do believe Israel is the biggest aggressor but its not the only one.
Is that you BalldeBeaver?

Israel is the aggressor BTW. If the Brits kept Fermanagh under lockdown and allowed only 2000 calories in per head for over 6 years and trashed the county's water system and had 10% of kids badly malnourished as official policy I would consider the Brits to be out of order.

You're either with me or against me right seafood? perhaps if you read my post youd see i did indicate israel is aggressor. However, you do the Palestinian plight no favours with your complete inability to be genuinely critical of Hamas and the fundamentalist religious shite they spout.
Do you think abortion should be legalised in Ireland? 
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Itchy on November 21, 2012, 10:33:42 PM
Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri hailed the explosion.

"Hamas blesses the attack in Tel Aviv and sees it as a natural response to the Israeli massacres...in Gaza," he told Reuters. "Palestinian factions will resort to all means in order to protect our Palestinian civilians in the absence of a world effort to stop the Israeli aggression."

Sweet cakes were handed out in celebration in Gaza's main hospital, which has been inundated with wounded from the round-the-clock Israeli bombing and shelling.

"GATES OF HELL"

"You opened the gates of hell on yourselves," Hamas's armed wing, the al-Qassam brigades, said on Twitter. "Oh Zionists, you have to drag yourselves out of hell, go back home now, go back to Germany, Poland, Russia, America and anywhere else."
Itchy, what do you call people who fire big rockets and bombs into multi story buildings occupied by hundreds of civilians - at least 70% of them women and children?
Do you consider them to be fair game ?
RTE news gave the bus attack with 20 wounded first mention and added as an afterthought that 11 ppeople were killed in Gaza.
So 20 wounded Israelis are more newsworthy than 11 dead Palestinians. :-\
Same oul hierarchy of victims sh1te from the Western media. :(

Well Rossfan, I call people who fire missiles into buildings of civilians cowardly murderers. Just because I think Hamas joy at blowing up a bus is sick doesn't automatically mean I'm a supporter of Israel. Just means there are plenty of murdering cowards on both sides. It is however interesting to read the relatively lukewarm criticism of Hamas by seafood when he copies and pastes endless articles when Israel is the aggressor. For what its worth I do believe Israel is the biggest aggressor but its not the only one.
Is that you BalldeBeaver?

Israel is the aggressor BTW. If the Brits kept Fermanagh under lockdown and allowed only 2000 calories in per head for over 6 years and trashed the county's water system and had 10% of kids badly malnourished as official policy I would consider the Brits to be out of order.

You're either with me or against me right seafood? perhaps if you read my post youd see i did indicate israel is aggressor. However, you do the Palestinian plight no favours with your complete inability to be genuinely critical of Hamas and the fundamentalist religious shite they spout.
Do you think abortion should be legalised in Ireland?

You're doing a great job of showing just how unable you are to be balanced by refusing to engage. Here's a quote for you from Hamas ...

Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2012, 10:44:00 PM
Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri hailed the explosion.

"Hamas blesses the attack in Tel Aviv and sees it as a natural response to the Israeli massacres...in Gaza," he told Reuters. "Palestinian factions will resort to all means in order to protect our Palestinian civilians in the absence of a world effort to stop the Israeli aggression."

Sweet cakes were handed out in celebration in Gaza's main hospital, which has been inundated with wounded from the round-the-clock Israeli bombing and shelling.

"GATES OF HELL"

"You opened the gates of hell on yourselves," Hamas's armed wing, the al-Qassam brigades, said on Twitter. "Oh Zionists, you have to drag yourselves out of hell, go back home now, go back to Germany, Poland, Russia, America and anywhere else."
Itchy, what do you call people who fire big rockets and bombs into multi story buildings occupied by hundreds of civilians - at least 70% of them women and children?
Do you consider them to be fair game ?
RTE news gave the bus attack with 20 wounded first mention and added as an afterthought that 11 ppeople were killed in Gaza.
So 20 wounded Israelis are more newsworthy than 11 dead Palestinians. :-\
Same oul hierarchy of victims sh1te from the Western media. :(

Well Rossfan, I call people who fire missiles into buildings of civilians cowardly murderers. Just because I think Hamas joy at blowing up a bus is sick doesn't automatically mean I'm a supporter of Israel. Just means there are plenty of murdering cowards on both sides. It is however interesting to read the relatively lukewarm criticism of Hamas by seafood when he copies and pastes endless articles when Israel is the aggressor. For what its worth I do believe Israel is the biggest aggressor but its not the only one.
Is that you BalldeBeaver?

Israel is the aggressor BTW. If the Brits kept Fermanagh under lockdown and allowed only 2000 calories in per head for over 6 years and trashed the county's water system and had 10% of kids badly malnourished as official policy I would consider the Brits to be out of order.

You're either with me or against me right seafood? perhaps if you read my post youd see i did indicate israel is aggressor. However, you do the Palestinian plight no favours with your complete inability to be genuinely critical of Hamas and the fundamentalist religious shite they spout.
Do you think abortion should be legalised in Ireland?

You're doing a great job of showing just how unable you are to be balanced by refusing to engage. Here's a quote for you from Hamas ...

IT would be fantastic if Hamas were like Fine Gael and they wore suits and went to mass on Sundays.  But they come from Gaza. And you know if you look at Irish history Hamas aren't that different in outlook to the people who wrote the constitution in 1937. Fundamentalism can happen anywhere. You have to understand what Israel has done to Gaza in terms of de-development and how this  turned many people to religion.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2538308?uid=3737760&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21101403997591

But do any of your quotes above legalise what Israel does to Gaza? Of course not.
And you never answered my abortion question either.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Itchy on November 21, 2012, 10:53:46 PM
What's your question got to do with this thread?

I love how you are so understanding of Hamas fundamentalist. Could same argument not be made for the Jews, almost wiped out by a genocide and hell bent on building a country no matter what. Both are bullshit positions but seems you are only able to say one side does wrong.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: tyssam5 on November 21, 2012, 10:57:09 PM
What's your question got to do with this thread?

I love how you are so understanding of Hamas fundamentalist. Could same argument not be made for the Jews, almost wiped out by a genocide and hell bent on building a country no matter what. Both are bullshit positions but seems you are only able to say one side does wrong.

It could be argued that it's less of a bullshit position to be hell bent on building a country if you've been living in that place for hundred or thousands of years as opposed to returning after a 2000 year gap.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Itchy on November 21, 2012, 11:06:02 PM
What's your question got to do with this thread?

I love how you are so understanding of Hamas fundamentalist. Could same argument not be made for the Jews, almost wiped out by a genocide and hell bent on building a country no matter what. Both are bullshit positions but seems you are only able to say one side does wrong.

It could be argued that it's less of a bullshit position to be hell bent on building a country if you've been living in that place for hundred or thousands of years as opposed to returning after a 2000 year gap.

Yes and I'd agree with that but doesn't mean I can't call a spade a spade when talking about Hamas. Seafood seems to think everything is excusable because Israel is a rogue murderous state. I say everything is not excused. Its only a shane the cowardly yanks and toothless UN dont kick Israel out of the UN. Our cowardly government should have expelled their nasty little ambassador too.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: hardstation on November 21, 2012, 11:12:35 PM
Seafood?
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 22, 2012, 12:29:20 AM
Well, after 8 days of uncalled for madness, a ceasefire has been reached and hopefully, no further loss of life or injury will take place for a long time. Given Hamas has agreed a deal with Israel through Egypt, means they have to keep their word with Egypt if they stand any chance of opening up the Rafah crossing for increased trade and passenger movement. Israel has to keep their side due to the US giving their word to Egypt. Whoever blinks 1st and breaks the ceasefire, then there will be a big row for sure.

Tonight in Gaza they are celebrating wildly. They fought the might of the 4th best equipped army in the world. They fought them with rockets that for the largest part, fell on empty land. They drove fear into the heart of Israel for 8 solid days. That was the only weapons they hard to fight back with. Bibi called up 75,000 troops and marched them to the top of the hill. Combined with the standing army, they numbered close to 100,000. Not even this threat scared them, and Bibi had to march them all back down again tonight.

They go home wounded, and judging by the look on Bibi's face tonight, he looked a very beaten man. He backed out of the ceasefire last night and had 24 hours where he pounded the strip from one end to the other. Today he got pulled into line and told to stop. He let Clinton down big time yesterday as an agreement was reached and she was to announce it. He backed out and the US were raging. The body language of Clinton last night told it all. Today she stayed in Cairo and announced it with the Egyptian Prime Minister.

Sadly though, a high price was paid. Over 150 people died, the majority women and children. The images of the young children will stay with me forever. Families destroyed, and a level of pain we could never imagine feeling. Over 1,000 are injured, and many of them have serious wounds. Dime bombs cause serious internal injuries, as they are the preferred weapon of choice for the IDF.

In the past 18 months Israel would have killed as many people. Their deaths never made the news, and it never changed anything. When the same number die in 8 days, then the world notices.

Maybe, just maybe, their deaths could be the last for a long time, and people can build on this going forward. The last 8 days brought the plight of Palestinians to the attention of a lot of people, and they got to see how ruthless and cruel Israel were. They showed no respect as they killed and bombed at will, and did so without any condemnation from the west. However, when you think of it, how could the west say anything when we look back at their actions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

While the main stream media were there reporting, it was twitter and facebook where the news flowed. People were live tweeting 24/7. Every attack was reported instantly. Within minutes you find out what damage was done, and if there were any injured. Within another 15 minutes, photos would appear. The main stream media would be reporting it 2 hours later. Live streams were set up and live broadcasts of the Gaza skyline were streamed. Some nights it was frighting to hear the ongoing aerial bombardment. Israel lost the PR war on this one, and every lie they told was de bunked in minutes. There was no hiding the truth on the internet.

A lot of fingers were pointing at who started it. For me, the minute they hit the car last Wednesday and killed a top man, they lit the fuse. They knew that Hamas would hit back, and then they could go crazy. Funny that as the days went on, reporters seemed to forget this and blamed the rockets for the trouble. They also forgot about the boys that were killed a few days before that. This thread is running for a while now. There has been a lot of posts going back over the weeks that shows you what was going on in the build up to this. This attack was well planned by Israel, and it was expected.

Hamas will come out of this stronger than ever. Ismail Haniya is a very popular man in Gaza, and over the last few years, he has gone from strength to strength in the face of so many hurdles. I feel he is a good man to lead them over the next few years. Fatah are going down hill rapidly, and Abbas has lost a serious amount of respect recently.

Israel found out this time that they are dealing with a different landscape now, and they are not going to get their own way too easy again. Egypt is a powerful force, and they took the lead in this one. There was no way in hell that Egypt would have stood by for a minute if Israel had of sent in the ground troops. Turkey too stood up as they are still seeking an apology for the deaths on Mavi Marmara. Others in the region stood up as well, and combined, they sent out a strong message that things had changed.

I know full well from my experiences in Gaza that they want to live in peace. They love life, and they have suffered enough. If Israel would only lift the siege and allow them to live a normal life, then not only would they be happy, but the whole middle east would be the better for it.

Lets hope the news from Gaza for a while will be a whole lot better, and Seafoid and I can post something different for a change. Tonight my anger has changed to hope, and i'm looking forward to the coming weeks and months to see the changes.

Sure how can they fail now, they have Stew behind them  ;)

Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: stew on November 22, 2012, 01:36:33 AM
Are you not glad that their rockets fell without killing people GHD? I know I am, I just wish the Israeli's weapons did the same.

Hey, nice crack at the end there bud, hey, when I am wrong at least I will come out and say so. :-[
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on November 22, 2012, 03:44:42 AM
Itchy, what do you call people who fire big rockets and bombs into multi story buildings occupied by hundreds of civilians - at least 70% of them women and children?
Do you consider them to be fair game ?
RTE news gave the bus attack with 20 wounded first mention and added as an afterthought that 11 ppeople were killed in Gaza.
So 20 wounded Israelis are more newsworthy than 11 dead Palestinians. :-\
Same oul hierarchy of victims sh1te from the Western media. :(
Agree with you 100%. If people wanted to strike a blow for Ireland the first thing I would do would be level RTE studios. Shameless shower. The British mouth piece in Ireland. If memory serves me right I think they had sensor ship on Sinn Fein years before the BBC. Western media is mostly controlled by world order pathological liers its how they keep control, brain washing people.

I'm glad there is a ceasefire for now but Israel being Israel still killed people after it was announced. Sky still full of drones and f16's tonight as well. Dose anyone know if the blockage is still in place?

That's a sad story GHD a bout the dad coming back and finding his family all dead. I just feel so sad for the people of Palestine they have a very very tough existence. 
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: tyssam5 on November 22, 2012, 05:10:45 AM
Itchy, what do you call people who fire big rockets and bombs into multi story buildings occupied by hundreds of civilians - at least 70% of them women and children?
Do you consider them to be fair game ?
RTE news gave the bus attack with 20 wounded first mention and added as an afterthought that 11 ppeople were killed in Gaza.
So 20 wounded Israelis are more newsworthy than 11 dead Palestinians. :-\
Same oul hierarchy of victims sh1te from the Western media. :(
Agree with you 100%. If people wanted to strike a blow for Ireland the first thing I would do would be level RTE studios. Shameless shower. The British mouth piece in Ireland. If memory serves me right I think they had sensor ship on Sinn Fein years before the BBC. Western media is mostly controlled by world order pathological liers its how they keep control, brain washing people.

I'm glad there is a ceasefire for now but Israel being Israel still killed people after it was announced. Sky still full of drones and f16's tonight as well. Dose anyone know if the blockage is still in place?

That's a sad story GHD a bout the dad coming back and finding his family all dead. I just feel so sad for the people of Palestine they have a very very tough existence.

True but government decision as opposed to RTE  think.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2012, 09:54:12 AM
Well, after 8 days of uncalled for madness, a ceasefire has been reached and hopefully, no further loss of life or injury will take place for a long time. Given Hamas has agreed a deal with Israel through Egypt, means they have to keep their word with Egypt if they stand any chance of opening up the Rafah crossing for increased trade and passenger movement. Israel has to keep their side due to the US giving their word to Egypt. Whoever blinks 1st and breaks the ceasefire, then there will be a big row for sure.

Tonight in Gaza they are celebrating wildly. They fought the might of the 4th best equipped army in the world. They fought them with rockets that for the largest part, fell on empty land. They drove fear into the heart of Israel for 8 solid days. That was the only weapons they hard to fight back with. Bibi called up 75,000 troops and marched them to the top of the hill. Combined with the standing army, they numbered close to 100,000. Not even this threat scared them, and Bibi had to march them all back down again tonight.

They go home wounded, and judging by the look on Bibi's face tonight, he looked a very beaten man. He backed out of the ceasefire last night and had 24 hours where he pounded the strip from one end to the other. Today he got pulled into line and told to stop. He let Clinton down big time yesterday as an agreement was reached and she was to announce it. He backed out and the US were raging. The body language of Clinton last night told it all. Today she stayed in Cairo and announced it with the Egyptian Prime Minister.

Sadly though, a high price was paid. Over 150 people died, the majority women and children. The images of the young children will stay with me forever. Families destroyed, and a level of pain we could never imagine feeling. Over 1,000 are injured, and many of them have serious wounds. Dime bombs cause serious internal injuries, as they are the preferred weapon of choice for the IDF.

In the past 18 months Israel would have killed as many people. Their deaths never made the news, and it never changed anything. When the same number die in 8 days, then the world notices.

Maybe, just maybe, their deaths could be the last for a long time, and people can build on this going forward. The last 8 days brought the plight of Palestinians to the attention of a lot of people, and they got to see how ruthless and cruel Israel were. They showed no respect as they killed and bombed at will, and did so without any condemnation from the west. However, when you think of it, how could the west say anything when we look back at their actions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

While the main stream media were there reporting, it was twitter and facebook where the news flowed. People were live tweeting 24/7. Every attack was reported instantly. Within minutes you find out what damage was done, and if there were any injured. Within another 15 minutes, photos would appear. The main stream media would be reporting it 2 hours later. Live streams were set up and live broadcasts of the Gaza skyline were streamed. Some nights it was frighting to hear the ongoing aerial bombardment. Israel lost the PR war on this one, and every lie they told was de bunked in minutes. There was no hiding the truth on the internet.

A lot of fingers were pointing at who started it. For me, the minute they hit the car last Wednesday and killed a top man, they lit the fuse. They knew that Hamas would hit back, and then they could go crazy. Funny that as the days went on, reporters seemed to forget this and blamed the rockets for the trouble. They also forgot about the boys that were killed a few days before that. This thread is running for a while now. There has been a lot of posts going back over the weeks that shows you what was going on in the build up to this. This attack was well planned by Israel, and it was expected.

Hamas will come out of this stronger than ever. Ismail Haniya is a very popular man in Gaza, and over the last few years, he has gone from strength to strength in the face of so many hurdles. I feel he is a good man to lead them over the next few years. Fatah are going down hill rapidly, and Abbas has lost a serious amount of respect recently.

Israel found out this time that they are dealing with a different landscape now, and they are not going to get their own way too easy again. Egypt is a powerful force, and they took the lead in this one. There was no way in hell that Egypt would have stood by for a minute if Israel had of sent in the ground troops. Turkey too stood up as they are still seeking an apology for the deaths on Mavi Marmara. Others in the region stood up as well, and combined, they sent out a strong message that things had changed.

I know full well from my experiences in Gaza that they want to live in peace. They love life, and they have suffered enough. If Israel would only lift the siege and allow them to live a normal life, then not only would they be happy, but the whole middle east would be the better for it.

Lets hope the news from Gaza for a while will be a whole lot better, and Seafoid and I can post something different for a change. Tonight my anger has changed to hope, and i'm looking forward to the coming weeks and months to see the changes.

Sure how can they fail now, they have Stew behind them  ;)

Unless the system changes nothing meaningful will change.
Israel has de developed Gaza since 1967.  There is very little work. The people can't get decent job experience.
Hamas can't do anything about that. The system run by Israel is rotten.

What is clear is that the status quo is unsustainable but there is no way to see how to get onto a different path where everyone gets a shot at a fair deal. 
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: LeoMc on November 22, 2012, 12:54:36 PM
Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri hailed the explosion.

"Hamas blesses the attack in Tel Aviv and sees it as a natural response to the Israeli massacres...in Gaza," he told Reuters. "Palestinian factions will resort to all means in order to protect our Palestinian civilians in the absence of a world effort to stop the Israeli aggression."

Sweet cakes were handed out in celebration in Gaza's main hospital, which has been inundated with wounded from the round-the-clock Israeli bombing and shelling.

"GATES OF HELL"

"You opened the gates of hell on yourselves," Hamas's armed wing, the al-Qassam brigades, said on Twitter. "Oh Zionists, you have to drag yourselves out of hell, go back home now, go back to Germany, Poland, Russia, America and anywhere else."
Itchy, what do you call people who fire big rockets and bombs into multi story buildings occupied by hundreds of civilians - at least 70% of them women and children?
Do you consider them to be fair game ?
RTE news gave the bus attack with 20 wounded first mention and added as an afterthought that 11 ppeople were killed in Gaza.
So 20 wounded Israelis are more newsworthy than 11 dead Palestinians. :-\
Same oul hierarchy of victims sh1te from the Western media. :(

Well Rossfan, I call people who fire missiles into buildings of civilians cowardly murderers. Just because I think Hamas joy at blowing up a bus is sick doesn't automatically mean I'm a supporter of Israel. Just means there are plenty of murdering cowards on both sides. It is however interesting to read the relatively lukewarm criticism of Hamas by seafood when he copies and pastes endless articles when Israel is the aggressor. For what its worth I do believe Israel is the biggest aggressor but its not the only one.
Is that you BalldeBeaver?

Israel is the aggressor BTW. If the Brits kept Fermanagh under lockdown and allowed only 2000 calories in per head for over 6 years and trashed the county's water system and had 10% of kids badly malnourished as official policy I would consider the Brits to be out of order.

You're either with me or against me right seafood? perhaps if you read my post youd see i did indicate israel is aggressor. However, you do the Palestinian plight no favours with your complete inability to be genuinely critical of Hamas and the fundamentalist religious shite they spout.
Do you think abortion should be legalised in Ireland?

You're doing a great job of showing just how unable you are to be balanced by refusing to engage. Here's a quote for you from Hamas ...

IT would be fantastic if Hamas were like Fine Gael and they wore suits and went to mass on Sundays.  But they come from Gaza. And you know if you look at Irish history Hamas aren't that different in outlook to the people who wrote the constitution in 1937. Fundamentalism can happen anywhere. You have to understand what Israel has done to Gaza in terms of de-development and how this  turned many people to religion.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2538308?uid=3737760&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21101403997591

But do any of your quotes above legalise what Israel does to Gaza? Of course not.
And you never answered my abortion question either.

I don't think he was justifying it and he appears to be condemning it. Are you able to condemn some of the Hamas actions rather than justify them?
Hamas have murdered many less innocents than the IDF but there are still victims on the Israeli side. Just as the Israeli aggression pushes the people of Gaza toward their hardliners so the Hamas response is pushing moderate Israelis toward their hard-liners.

The Gazans won the PR battle thanks to the good work of people like GHD and the courage of those on the ground and it is that groundswell which stopped this latest bloodbath, not their mostly ineffectual rocket attacks.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2012, 01:05:20 PM
By all means condemn Hamas- they kill people too, they aren't always particularly tolerant - but they haven't ruined the lives of 5 million Jews the way the Israeli government has in the case of the palestinians.
Most Israelis don't want to know what they have done to Gaza. They don't want to accept the reality of Israeli state violence.

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/west-of-eden/gaza-requiem-six-remarks-on-image-perceptions-and-four-dead-palestinian-children.premium-1.479828

But there is a Reuters picture that I wish I hadn’t seen. I looked at it, almost by accident, and it has been seared into my memory ever since. It shows 6 year old Jamal Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, 4 year old Yousef Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, 7 year old Sarah Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, and one year old Ibrahim Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, all lying together, faces bruised, eyes closed, breaths extinguished, on a steel gurney in a Gaza morgue.
They were killed in an air force bombing raid in what Israel says - and I am absolutely convinced - was a regrettable human error.
But most Israelis haven’t seen this picture. They wouldn’t want to, even if they could. They may have heard of, but they certainly haven’t devoted too much attention to, the killing of the 8 members of the al-Dalu family. Many of them were harshly critical of Haaretz for having chosen to devote a main headline to their demise.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: LeoMc on November 22, 2012, 01:36:09 PM
By all means condemn Hamas- they kill people too, they aren't always particularly tolerant - but they haven't ruined the lives of 5 million Jews the way the Israeli government has in the case of the palestinians.
Most Israelis don't want to know what they have done to Gaza. They don't want to accept the reality of Israeli state violence.

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/west-of-eden/gaza-requiem-six-remarks-on-image-perceptions-and-four-dead-palestinian-children.premium-1.479828

But there is a Reuters picture that I wish I hadn’t seen. I looked at it, almost by accident, and it has been seared into my memory ever since. It shows 6 year old Jamal Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, 4 year old Yousef Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, 7 year old Sarah Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, and one year old Ibrahim Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, all lying together, faces bruised, eyes closed, breaths extinguished, on a steel gurney in a Gaza morgue.
They were killed in an air force bombing raid in what Israel says - and I am absolutely convinced - was a regrettable human error.
But most Israelis haven’t seen this picture. They wouldn’t want to, even if they could. They may have heard of, but they certainly haven’t devoted too much attention to, the killing of the 8 members of the al-Dalu family. Many of them were harshly critical of Haaretz for having chosen to devote a main headline to their demise.

The ordinary Israeli people are the ones who need to see the pictures. While they have their own dead they will not ask questions and while Hamas fire rockets the Generals in Tel Aviv can paint the picture of the big bad ogre who needs to be exterminated.

While Hamas terrorism goes un-condemned the Generals know their high tech terrorism cannot be fully condemned and that those who condone one act of terrorism while condemning another can be painted as Anti-semites.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2012, 01:56:30 PM
By all means condemn Hamas- they kill people too, they aren't always particularly tolerant - but they haven't ruined the lives of 5 million Jews the way the Israeli government has in the case of the palestinians.
Most Israelis don't want to know what they have done to Gaza. They don't want to accept the reality of Israeli state violence.

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/west-of-eden/gaza-requiem-six-remarks-on-image-perceptions-and-four-dead-palestinian-children.premium-1.479828

But there is a Reuters picture that I wish I hadn’t seen. I looked at it, almost by accident, and it has been seared into my memory ever since. It shows 6 year old Jamal Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, 4 year old Yousef Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, 7 year old Sarah Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, and one year old Ibrahim Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, all lying together, faces bruised, eyes closed, breaths extinguished, on a steel gurney in a Gaza morgue.
They were killed in an air force bombing raid in what Israel says - and I am absolutely convinced - was a regrettable human error.
But most Israelis haven’t seen this picture. They wouldn’t want to, even if they could. They may have heard of, but they certainly haven’t devoted too much attention to, the killing of the 8 members of the al-Dalu family. Many of them were harshly critical of Haaretz for having chosen to devote a main headline to their demise.

The ordinary Israeli people are the ones who need to see the pictures. While they have their own dead they will not ask questions and while Hamas fire rockets the Generals in Tel Aviv can paint the picture of the big bad ogre who needs to be exterminated.

While Hamas terrorism goes un-condemned the Generals know their high tech terrorism cannot be fully condemned and that those who condone one act of terrorism while condemning another can be painted as Anti-semites.

Who is supposed to condemn Hamas? The Arabs ? 

The whole terrorism/ moral army framing of the conflict is bullshit. As is the anti Zionist= antisemite argument.
Palestinians have their homes demolished because they aren't Jewish. The Israeli approach to the conflict
is utterly amoral. And it makes Jewish ethics more or less redundant.

What difference would it make anyway if Hamas was condemned? Would it change Israel?
Would Israel stop building settlements ?


http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2011/01/27/erekat-finally-hits-mark#

"(Israeli Foreign Mimnister) Livni is recorded confirming what Palestinians have always accused Israeli governments of doing: creating facts on the ground to prevent the possibility of a viable Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza."

When Mr Erekat asked Ms Livni: “Short of your jet fighters in my sky and your army on my territory, can I choose where I secure external defence?”. She replied: “No. In order to create your state you have to agree in advance with Israel – you have to choose not to have the right of choice afterwards. These are the basic pillars.”

“Israel takes more land [so] that the Palestinian state will be impossible . . . the Israel policy is to take more and more land day after day and that at the end of the day we’ll say that is impossible, we already have the land and we cannot create the state”. She conceded that it had been “the policy of the government for a really long time”.

Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 22, 2012, 03:19:07 PM
Might have to revise my opinion of him.

Real Madrid iconic forward Cristiano Ronaldo has donated €1.5 million to Palestinian children in Gaza, the Arabic version of the club’s Classico network reports. The star forward gave his Golden Boot which he earned in 2011 to the Real Madrid foundation. The Spanish giants in their turn sold it at auction and will now donate the funds to schools in Gaza According to various reports, the Real Madrid Foundation has helped to build 167 schools in 66 countries. It’s not the first time Ronaldo has given to Gaza.
Last year he sold most of his sports shoes at a Real Madrid Foundation auction which was also dedicated to raising funds for schools in Gaza.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Itchy on November 22, 2012, 06:26:08 PM
By all means condemn Hamas- they kill people too, they aren't always particularly tolerant - but they haven't ruined the lives of 5 million Jews the way the Israeli government has in the case of the palestinians.
Most Israelis don't want to know what they have done to Gaza. They don't want to accept the reality of Israeli state violence.

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/west-of-eden/gaza-requiem-six-remarks-on-image-perceptions-and-four-dead-palestinian-children.premium-1.479828

But there is a Reuters picture that I wish I hadn’t seen. I looked at it, almost by accident, and it has been seared into my memory ever since. It shows 6 year old Jamal Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, 4 year old Yousef Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, 7 year old Sarah Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, and one year old Ibrahim Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, all lying together, faces bruised, eyes closed, breaths extinguished, on a steel gurney in a Gaza morgue.
They were killed in an air force bombing raid in what Israel says - and I am absolutely convinced - was a regrettable human error.
But most Israelis haven’t seen this picture. They wouldn’t want to, even if they could. They may have heard of, but they certainly haven’t devoted too much attention to, the killing of the 8 members of the al-Dalu family. Many of them were harshly critical of Haaretz for having chosen to devote a main headline to their demise.

The ordinary Israeli people are the ones who need to see the pictures. While they have their own dead they will not ask questions and while Hamas fire rockets the Generals in Tel Aviv can paint the picture of the big bad ogre who needs to be exterminated.

While Hamas terrorism goes un-condemned the Generals know their high tech terrorism cannot be fully condemned and that those who condone one act of terrorism while condemning another can be painted as Anti-semites.

Who is supposed to condemn Hamas? The Arabs ? 

The whole terrorism/ moral army framing of the conflict is bullshit. As is the anti Zionist= antisemite argument.
Palestinians have their homes demolished because they aren't Jewish. The Israeli approach to the conflict
is utterly amoral. And it makes Jewish ethics more or less redundant.

What difference would it make anyway if Hamas was condemned? Would it change Israel?
Would Israel stop building settlements ?


http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2011/01/27/erekat-finally-hits-mark#

"(Israeli Foreign Mimnister) Livni is recorded confirming what Palestinians have always accused Israeli governments of doing: creating facts on the ground to prevent the possibility of a viable Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza."

When Mr Erekat asked Ms Livni: “Short of your jet fighters in my sky and your army on my territory, can I choose where I secure external defence?”. She replied: “No. In order to create your state you have to agree in advance with Israel – you have to choose not to have the right of choice afterwards. These are the basic pillars.”

“Israel takes more land [so] that the Palestinian state will be impossible . . . the Israel policy is to take more and more land day after day and that at the end of the day we’ll say that is impossible, we already have the land and we cannot create the state”. She conceded that it had been “the policy of the government for a really long time”.

Anyone with respect for rules of war and who detests the targeting of civilians should condemn Hamas and at the same time Israel. That does not take from the fact that Israel is a murderous rogue state which treats the people of Gaza like dogs in a ghetto. However, if you are unable to be balanced and critical of both sides when their is cause to be then your opinion is worthless and counter productive.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on November 22, 2012, 09:10:38 PM
GHD or anyone else that works in the besieged Gaza strip, my wife and I are trying to find out the name of these two children in the picture. Both there parents were murdered by the IDF. Any help would be appreciated.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Nally Stand on November 23, 2012, 09:42:30 AM
Israel has broken the truce already. A 20 year old Palestinian has been murdered and another 10 injured by the IDF in Gaza.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 23, 2012, 09:49:03 AM
Israel has broken the truce already. A 20 year old Palestinian has been murdered and another 10 injured by the IDF in Gaza.
Colonialism is always the same. The infected blankets, the Treaty of Limerick, the word  of a Zionist.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Denn Forever on November 23, 2012, 10:05:24 AM
Israel has broken the truce already. A 20 year old Palestinian has been murdered and another 10 injured by the IDF in Gaza.

Damn.  Where was this reported and is there a link?
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: johnneycool on November 23, 2012, 10:13:15 AM
bbc have it up now, you'd need to go looking for it..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20461914 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20461914)

Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Denn Forever on November 23, 2012, 11:06:09 AM
Quote
The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) confirmed only that it had fired "warning shots" after seeing a group walking towards the border fence.  .....  Eyewitnesses said the group were farmers but the Israelis said they had been marching towards the border as if staging a protest.

Montgomery Alabama 2012.  I dispair.

Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 23, 2012, 11:38:55 AM
I have just been catching up there now on the news. Seems that the farmers were on their own land on the Gaza side of the fence and they were shot. There is a video of the shooting, but due to the internet connection I have on the boat, I can't see it.

I havn't watched this link, but see if it works. 
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=3527230439348

In the past, Israel has broken over 75% of agreed cease fires, and today is no different. Sasly though, the media always forgets these matters......

Considering over 50% of Israel are against the ceasefire, it wouldn't surprise me if the stir things up again. They will sink lower than a snakes belly for political (or land) gain

Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Itchy on November 23, 2012, 01:28:02 PM
Reports say they were trying to put an Hamas flag on the security fence. Thats all the trigger happy scumbags in the IDF need to justify murdering someone.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 23, 2012, 01:33:39 PM
It's a concentration camp fence in reality.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 23, 2012, 01:35:26 PM
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6d83ec1e-33ec-11e2-9ce7-00144feabdc0.html
 

November 22, 2012 6:39 pm
 
Winning wars will not make Israel safe
 
By Philip Stephens
 
Amid the upheaval of the Arab uprisings, there have been a couple of constants in the Middle East. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei’s regime in Iran is still defying international pressure over its nuclear programme; and Benjamin Netanyahu’s Israeli government is attempting to scupper any prospect of a two-state accord with the Palestinians.
 
Israel’s escalation of the conflict in Gaza can be seen as a simple act of deterrence: every nation has the right to defend itself. Mr Netanyahu’s record suggests more complicated motives. He is fighting an election; and he wants to forestall any effort by Barack Obama’s administration to restart peace negotiations. This summer Mr Obama vetoed an Israeli attack on Iran. Mr Netanyahu does not intend to give ground on Palestine.
 






The effect of Israeli attacks on Gaza has been to underpin Hamas’s legitimacy across the Arab world and to weaken Mahmoud Abbas’s Palestinian Authority. Not so long ago the Israeli government was talking, albeit through the Egyptians, to Ahmed Al-Jabari, the head of Hamas’s military organisation. By killing Mr Al-Jabari, it created another martyr to Palestinian radicalism. Mr Abbas, sidelined by Israel’s colonisation of the West Bank, struggles to seem relevant.
 
This is of a piece with the reactionary world view of the Israeli prime minister. Almost everything has changed in the Middle East; Mr Netanyahu has not. He lives in the shadow of a war hero brother, who perished during the Israeli rescue of hostages at Entebbe, and a father who believed Arabs would never make peace with Jews. As long as Hamas can be cast as terrorists, Mr Netanyahu can refuse to talk peace. The unspoken delusion is that Israel’s security can be forever underwritten by military victories.
 
Even before the Arab uprisings the strategy had run out of road. Ehud Olmert, Mr Netanyahu’s predecessor, also waged war on Hamas in an effort to show it would pay a heavy price for terror attacks. Mr Olmert, however, had also begun to understand that military might was not enough. He concluded that durable security depended on facing up to the decision Israel had long avoided: a negotiated withdrawal from the Palestinian territories. “The time has come to say these things,” Mr Olmert remarked during the dying months of his premiership.
 
Mr Netanyahu is creating facts on the ground intended to defy this strategic logic. His settlement policy has left the West Bank resembling nothing so much as a Bantustan from South Africa’s apartheid era. You hear his supporters say that it will soon be impossible for any Israeli leader to hand back the land.
 
All the while, Israel is running out of friends. Hamas hails from the same Islamist family as Mohamed Morsi’s Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Not so long ago the US shunned contact with the Brotherhood. This week Mr Obama praised Mr Morsi for his leadership in brokering the Gaza ceasefire.
 
Turkey, once a close partner, is as hostile to the present government as is any Arab state. The leaders across Europe who this week affirmed Israel’s right to defend itself did so through gritted teeth. Even Tony Blair, who as an international envoy to the region has never strayed far from Mr Netanyahu, seems to think it is time to talk to Hamas.

Mr Netanyahu draws a link between Palestine and Iran’s nuclear programme. He says Israel can consider peace only when the US has dealt with the threat from an Iranian bomb. Logic runs in the opposite direction. International pressure cannot properly be mobilised against Tehran until the west shakes off the charge of double standards.
 
The parallel with Iran is anyway an uncomfortable one. Ayatollah Khamenei is a fellow reactionary. He shares Mr Netanyahu’s view that military force is the sole source of security. Tehran sees a nuclear capability as an insurance policy against outside threats. The only hope of persuading the regime to forsake the bomb lies in a US offer of security guarantees.
 
Mr Obama’s response to the latest crisis was to send Hillary Clinton, the outgoing secretary of state, to the region. The US president cannot stop there. His visit to Asia this week was another reminder of the pivot towards the Pacific – the US hope that it can shed responsibilities elsewhere to concentrate diplomatic and military resources in east Asia. The flare-up in Gaza was a reminder that some responsibilities cannot be shirked.
 
During his first term Mr Obama blinked in the face of Mr Netanyahu’s intransigence. He took advice from officials who said that the US could never challenge Israel.
 
What is required now is American leadership – a decision by the White House to set out the parameters for a settlement and to seek broad regional and international support for them. The elements are familiar enough: a Palestinian state based on 1967 borders with agreed land swaps; unbreakable security guarantees for Israel and its recognition across the Arab world; and a shared capital in Jerusalem. Past Israeli leaders have accepted this as a fair template. If Mr Netanyahu rejects it, he must explain why.
 
The time has also come for Europeans to leave the sidelines. Instead of whispering behind their hands, they should say publicly what they agree privately. After all, they need do no more than take Mr Olmert’s script: Israel’s security and democracy cannot indefinitely survive the subjugation of Palestinians. One way to start would be to offer European backing for Palestinian statehood at the UN. If there is a single lesson from the tumultuous events of the past few years, it is that the era of the armed reactionary is coming to a close.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: stew on November 23, 2012, 03:51:06 PM
By all means condemn Hamas- they kill people too, they aren't always particularly tolerant - but they haven't ruined the lives of 5 million Jews the way the Israeli government has in the case of the palestinians.
Most Israelis don't want to know what they have done to Gaza. They don't want to accept the reality of Israeli state violence.

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/west-of-eden/gaza-requiem-six-remarks-on-image-perceptions-and-four-dead-palestinian-children.premium-1.479828

But there is a Reuters picture that I wish I hadn’t seen. I looked at it, almost by accident, and it has been seared into my memory ever since. It shows 6 year old Jamal Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, 4 year old Yousef Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, 7 year old Sarah Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, and one year old Ibrahim Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, all lying together, faces bruised, eyes closed, breaths extinguished, on a steel gurney in a Gaza morgue.
They were killed in an air force bombing raid in what Israel says - and I am absolutely convinced - was a regrettable human error.
But most Israelis haven’t seen this picture. They wouldn’t want to, even if they could. They may have heard of, but they certainly haven’t devoted too much attention to, the killing of the 8 members of the al-Dalu family. Many of them were harshly critical of Haaretz for having chosen to devote a main headline to their demise.

The ordinary Israeli people are the ones who need to see the pictures. While they have their own dead they will not ask questions and while Hamas fire rockets the Generals in Tel Aviv can paint the picture of the big bad ogre who needs to be exterminated.

While Hamas terrorism goes un-condemned the Generals know their high tech terrorism cannot be fully condemned and that those who condone one act of terrorism while condemning another can be painted as Anti-semites.

Who is supposed to condemn Hamas? The Arabs ? 

The whole terrorism/ moral army framing of the conflict is bullshit. As is the anti Zionist= antisemite argument.
Palestinians have their homes demolished because they aren't Jewish. The Israeli approach to the conflict
is utterly amoral. And it makes Jewish ethics more or less redundant.

What difference would it make anyway if Hamas was condemned? Would it change Israel?
Would Israel stop building settlements ?


http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2011/01/27/erekat-finally-hits-mark#

"(Israeli Foreign Mimnister) Livni is recorded confirming what Palestinians have always accused Israeli governments of doing: creating facts on the ground to prevent the possibility of a viable Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza."

When Mr Erekat asked Ms Livni: “Short of your jet fighters in my sky and your army on my territory, can I choose where I secure external defence?”. She replied: “No. In order to create your state you have to agree in advance with Israel – you have to choose not to have the right of choice afterwards. These are the basic pillars.”

“Israel takes more land [so] that the Palestinian state will be impossible . . . the Israel policy is to take more and more land day after day and that at the end of the day we’ll say that is impossible, we already have the land and we cannot create the state”. She conceded that it had been “the policy of the government for a really long time”.

Anyone with respect for rules of war and who detests the targeting of civilians should condemn Hamas and at the same time Israel. That does not take from the fact that Israel is a murderous rogue state which treats the people of Gaza like dogs in a ghetto. However, if you are unable to be balanced and critical of both sides when their is cause to be then your opinion is worthless and counter productive.

Well put Sir, that said the rules of war are never followed by anybody.

Both are at fault but Israel needs to be reigned in and Obama needs to grow a pair and set them straight on a few things!!! Enough of this shite.

Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: orangeman on November 25, 2012, 11:37:23 PM
There's a couple of good photos in this montage  -

http://www.rte.ie/news/galleries/2012/1123/the-week-in-pictures-gallery.html
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 130 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 26, 2012, 04:11:18 PM
A Palestinian man on Monday died of wounds sustained in an Israeli strike that killed two of his relatives on the first day of Israel's military offensive on the Gaza Strip.

Ahmad Ali Masharawi sustained major burns when an Israeli missile hit his garden in Gaza City on Nov. 14. His infant nephew, 11-month-old, Omar Masharawi, was killed immediately, as was his pregnant sister-in-law Hiba Mashharawi Turk.

BBC correspondent Paul Danahar wrote on Twitter that Ahmad Masharawi had been trying to carry Omar to safety when the house was hit engulfing them both in flames.

Omar's father and Ahmad's brother is BBC employee Jihad Masharawi, whose image cradling his dead son became a symbol of the conflict.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=542043
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Denn Forever on November 26, 2012, 04:26:46 PM
Is the truce holding up? 
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 26, 2012, 05:02:50 PM
At this stage, Israel have violated the truce 4 times, killing one man and seriously injuring several others.

Talks are ongoing today in Egypt between Hamas and Israel in order to iron out further details.

Click on this link for news on the retirement of Ehud Barak who has taken the fall for what has been seen in Israel as a defeat.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/barak-the-great-hope-that-turned-into-a-bitter-disappointment.premium-1.480714/barak-the-great-hope-that-turned-into-a-bitter-disappointment.premium-1.480714
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 27, 2012, 08:15:32 AM
Britain ready to back Palestinian bid for statehood at UN

Britain is prepared to back a key vote recognising Palestinian statehood at the United Nations if Mahmoud Abbas pledges not to pursue Israel for war crimes and to resume peace talks.

Abbas, president of the Palestinian Authority, has called for Britain’s backing in part because of its historic responsibility for Palestine. The government has previously refused, citing strong US and Israeli objections and fears of long-term damage to prospects for negotiations.

On Monday night, the government signalled it would change tack and vote yes if the Palestinians modified their application, which is to be debated by the UN general assembly in New York later this week. As a “non-member state”, Palestine would have the same status as the Vatican.


Whitehall officials said the Palestinians were now being asked to refrain from applying for membership of the international criminal court or the international court of justice, which could both be used to pursue war crimes charges or other legal claims against Israel.

Abbas is also being asked to commit to an immediate resumption of peace talks “without preconditions” with Israel. The third condition is that the general assembly’s resolution does not require the UN security council to follow suit.

The US and Israel have both hinted at possible retaliation if the vote goes ahead. Congress could block payments to the Palestinian Authority and Israel might freeze tax revenues it transfers under the 1993 Oslo agreement or, worse, withdraw from the agreement altogether. It could also annex West Bank settlements. Britain’s position is that it wants to reduce the risk that such threats might be implemented and bolster Palestinian moderates.

France has already signalled that it will vote yes on Thursday, and the long-awaited vote is certain to pass as 132 UN members have recognised the state of Palestine. Decisions by Germany, Spain and Britain are still pending and Palestinians would clearly prefer a united EU position as counterweight to the US.

Willian Hague, the foreign secretary, discussed the issue on Monday with Abbas and the French foreign minister, Laurent Fabius, offiicals said.

Palestinian sources said Hillary Clinton, the US secretary of state, raised the issue with Abbas at his Ramallah headquarters last week, shortly before a ceasefire was agreed in the Gaza Strip, as had Tony Blair, the Quartet envoy.


Abbas has been widely seen to have been sidelined by his rivals in the Islamist movement Hamas, as well by his failure to win any concessions from Israel. Abbas, whose remit does not extend beyond the West Bank, hopes a strong yes vote will persuade Israel to return to talks after more than two years.

Officals in Ramallah have opposed surrendering on the ICC issue so it can be used as a bargaining chip in future, but views are thought to be divided. Abbas said at the weekend: “We are going to the UN fully confident in our steps. We will have our rights because you are with us.”

Leila Shaid, Palestine’s representative to the EU, said: “After everything that has happened in the Arab spring, Britain can’t pretend it is in favour of democracy in Libya, Syria and Egypt but accept the Palestinians continuing to live under occupation. As the former colonial power, Britain has a historic responsibility to Palestine. Britain is a very important country in the Middle East, it has extensive trade relations, and David Cameron should know he risks a popular backlash from Arab public opinion if he does not support us.”

Palestinians have rejected the claim that they are acting unilaterally, calling the UN path “the ultimate expression of multilateralism”. Israel’s apparent opposition to unilateralism has not stopped it acting without agreement to build and expand settlements, they say.

guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media 2012
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Denn Forever on November 27, 2012, 09:26:56 AM
Better news for a change.  Here's hoping.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Rossfan on November 27, 2012, 11:03:40 AM
So there are now only 3 "rogue states" left in the World- U.S, Israel and North Korea.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 27, 2012, 11:23:11 AM
Britain ready to back Palestinian bid for statehood at UN

Britain is prepared to back a key vote recognising Palestinian statehood at the United Nations if Mahmoud Abbas pledges not to pursue Israel for war crimes and to resume peace talks.

Abbas, president of the Palestinian Authority, has called for Britain’s backing in part because of its historic responsibility for Palestine. The government has previously refused, citing strong US and Israeli objections and fears of long-term damage to prospects for negotiations.

On Monday night, the government signalled it would change tack and vote yes if the Palestinians modified their application, which is to be debated by the UN general assembly in New York later this week. As a “non-member state”, Palestine would have the same status as the Vatican.


Whitehall officials said the Palestinians were now being asked to refrain from applying for membership of the international criminal court or the international court of justice, which could both be used to pursue war crimes charges or other legal claims against Israel.

Abbas is also being asked to commit to an immediate resumption of peace talks “without preconditions” with Israel. The third condition is that the general assembly’s resolution does not require the UN security council to follow suit.

The US and Israel have both hinted at possible retaliation if the vote goes ahead. Congress could block payments to the Palestinian Authority and Israel might freeze tax revenues it transfers under the 1993 Oslo agreement or, worse, withdraw from the agreement altogether. It could also annex West Bank settlements. Britain’s position is that it wants to reduce the risk that such threats might be implemented and bolster Palestinian moderates.

France has already signalled that it will vote yes on Thursday, and the long-awaited vote is certain to pass as 132 UN members have recognised the state of Palestine. Decisions by Germany, Spain and Britain are still pending and Palestinians would clearly prefer a united EU position as counterweight to the US.

Willian Hague, the foreign secretary, discussed the issue on Monday with Abbas and the French foreign minister, Laurent Fabius, offiicals said.

Palestinian sources said Hillary Clinton, the US secretary of state, raised the issue with Abbas at his Ramallah headquarters last week, shortly before a ceasefire was agreed in the Gaza Strip, as had Tony Blair, the Quartet envoy.


Abbas has been widely seen to have been sidelined by his rivals in the Islamist movement Hamas, as well by his failure to win any concessions from Israel. Abbas, whose remit does not extend beyond the West Bank, hopes a strong yes vote will persuade Israel to return to talks after more than two years.

Officals in Ramallah have opposed surrendering on the ICC issue so it can be used as a bargaining chip in future, but views are thought to be divided. Abbas said at the weekend: “We are going to the UN fully confident in our steps. We will have our rights because you are with us.”

Leila Shaid, Palestine’s representative to the EU, said: “After everything that has happened in the Arab spring, Britain can’t pretend it is in favour of democracy in Libya, Syria and Egypt but accept the Palestinians continuing to live under occupation. As the former colonial power, Britain has a historic responsibility to Palestine. Britain is a very important country in the Middle East, it has extensive trade relations, and David Cameron should know he risks a popular backlash from Arab public opinion if he does not support us.”

Palestinians have rejected the claim that they are acting unilaterally, calling the UN path “the ultimate expression of multilateralism”. Israel’s apparent opposition to unilateralism has not stopped it acting without agreement to build and expand settlements, they say.

guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media 2012
The Palestinians should sue Israel's ass for war crimes.
The hypocrisy of the chosen people needs to be exposed.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Lar Naparka on November 27, 2012, 11:43:43 AM
Is the truce holding up?

I can’t see the truce lasting as it’s not in Israel’s best interests to maintain it. Nethanyahu and his supporters started the latest conflict in order to boost their electoral chances and it appears that they have failed dismally in this.
The widespread perception is that the Gazans came off better in this instance and I’m sure the Israeli hawks are itching for an excuse to have another go to recover lost prestige if nothing else.
Some folks never learn…..
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 27, 2012, 01:20:47 PM

Israel-U.S. effort to soften wording of Palestinian UN bid has failed, official says



http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-u-s-effort-to-soften-wording-of-palestinian-un-bid-has-failed-official-says.premium-1.480931

Israeli official says senior PA negotiator Saeb Erekat refuses U.S. request to discuss UN bid; Washington seeks to alter proposal's wording in order to minimize the political fallout.

 By Barak Ravid | Nov.27, 2012 | 1:59 PM | 3

 By Barak Ravid | Nov.27,2012 | 1:59 PM | 39


Israel, U.S. hold secret talks on softening Palestinian Authority's UN bid

 By Barak Ravid | Nov.27,2012 | 1:59 PM | 11



American-Israeli efforts to soften the wording of the proposed United Nations General Assembly resolution regarding the recognition of a Palestinian state has failed, an Israeli official said on Tuesday.

Haaretz has learned that the push did not succeed because the Palestinians refused to add a clause to the draft that would prevent them from filing criminal charges against Israeli officials at the International Criminal Court in The Hague. The General Assembly was due to vote on the proposal on Thursday.

The Palestinians distributed the final draft of the General Assembly resolution early on Wednesday morning in New York and are refusing to pursue any further discussions on the matter.

Over the past two days, the United States has made attempts to alter the wording of the resolution in order to minimize the political damage that will likely result from the General Assembly vote, in which the Palestinians are expected to garner a large majority.

Earlier Tuesday, Haaretz reported that Israel had joined the American effort, and that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu sent his special envoy, lawyer Isaac Molho, to Washington on Sunday to work on the issue along with senior Obama administration officials.

A senior Israeli official involved in the international contacts to soften the wording of the resolution stated that the effort was too little, too late and had ended in failure. In his words, senior Obama administration officials contacted the chief of the Palestinian negotiating team Saeb Erekat on Wednesday and asked him to come to Washington urgently in order to negotiate the wording of the resolution, but Erekat refused.

"Erekat told the Americans that he didn't have any time and that he would speak with them after the [General Assembly] vote," said the senior Israeli official.

At the center of Palestinian steadfast refusal to alter the resolution draft lies the demand that a clause be inserted into the resolution stating that the Palestinians would not approach the ICC in order to file charges against Israeli officials.

The United Kingdom has made it clear to the Palestinians that it will support their measure in the United Nations if they provide guarantees that they will not seek to file criminal charges against Israeli officials with the ICC. The British did not state whether they were requesting oral or written guarantees from the Palestinians.

The Palestinians made it clear to the U.S. and several prominent European Union member states that they are only prepared to provide an oral guarantee that they will not seek to file charges with the ICC for a temporary period of approximately half a year. After the end of this period, they stated, they would consider themselves no longer bound by this guarantee.

After responding negatively to American efforts to alter the wording of the resolution, the Palestinian delegation to the UN in New York distributed a final draft of the resolution proposal that is contained below. In this draft, which in any event is phrased in general and relatively moderate terms, some minor changes were inserted in response to requests made by some European countries. The principal change was the emphasis placed on the necessity of the immediate renewal of the peace process with Israel.

5. The General Assembly expresses the urgent need for the resumption and acceleration of negotiations within the Middle East peace process, based on the relevant United Nations resolutions, the Madrid terms of reference, including the principle of land for peace, the Arab Peace Initiative and the Quartet Roadmap, for the achievement of a just, lasting and comprehensive peace settlement between the Palestinian and Israeli sides that resolves all outstanding core issues, namely the Palestine refugees, Jerusalem, settlements, borders, security and water.

 Also included in the resolution draft was a clause stating:

4. The General Assembly affirms its determination to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in l967 and fulfills the vision of two States, an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine, living side by side in peace and security with Israel, on the basis of the pre-1967 borders.

 
According to the final draft of the resolution, the GA will state that it grants to Palestine the status of an observer nation that isn't a full member of the UN. The resolution will establish that the designation of this status to Palestine will not harm in any manner either the position or rights of the Palestine Liberation Organization as the representative of the Palestinian people in the framework of the UN.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 28, 2012, 06:44:58 PM
Palestinians say UN bid is last-ditch peace effort

By By KARIN LAUB, Associated Press – 40 minutes ago 

RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) — A bid for U.N. recognition of a state of Palestine is a last-ditch attempt to rescue troubled Mideast peace efforts, a Palestinian spokeswoman said Wednesday, rejecting Israel's charge that it is an attempt to bypass negotiations.

Hanan Ashrawi, a senior Palestinian official, urged the U.S. to drop its opposition to the bid, dismissing Washington's stance as "pathetic" and harmful to American interests in the region. The Palestinians have come under intense pressure from the U.S., Britain and others to modify the bid but "have not succumbed," she said.

On Thursday, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas plans to ask the U.N. General Assembly to recognize Palestine in the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem, areas Israel captured in the 1967 Mideast war. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 but still controls most access.

The Palestinians expect some two-thirds of the General Assembly's 193 members will accept Palestine as a non-member observer state. The U.S., Israel, Canada and a few others are opposed.

The vote will not change the situation on the ground, yet the Palestinians still say it is significant.
Abbas has said U.N. recognition is not meant to replace negotiations with Israel, but to improve Palestinian leverage and secure the pre-1967 war frontiers as the baseline for future border talks — an idea Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has rejected.

This does not mean the U.N. vote will pave the way for a quick resumption of talks, which broke down four years ago.

Abbas has said he will not negotiate as long as Israel keeps expanding settlements on war-won land. Half a million Israelis now live in the West Bank and east Jerusalem, blurring the 1967 lines.
Beyond a 10-month partial halt in 2009 that failed to restart sustained peace talks, Netanyahu has refused to freeze construction in settlements.

Abbas aides have given conflicting accounts of whether U.N. recognition of "Palestine" would soften his demands for a settlement freeze ahead of any negotiations.

Referring to Israeli settlement building, Ashrawi said Wednesday that the U.N. bid "is a last-ditch effort, because we believe the two-state solution (a Palestinian state alongside Israel) is in jeopardy as a result of these actions."

She said if the U.S. "can't vote yes, at least don't vote no, because that would be seen as being really pathetic by the rest of the world."

Deputy U.S. Secretary of State William Burns met with Abbas Wednesday at his New York hotel in a last-minute attempt to halt the U.N. bid, Abbas aide Saeb Erekat said.

Burns told Abbas that the U.N. vote goes against U.S. interests and President Barack Obama would make a new push in 2013 to see a Palestinian state formed through negotiations, Erekat said.

Burns "asked President Abbas to change his mind," the aide said.
Abbas told Burns that the vote would take place on Thursday, as planned, Erekat said.

Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev dismissed the U.N. quest as futile, saying only negotiations with Israel can bring about a Palestinian state.

"They can get pieces of paper from the U.N., but they are not going to move peace forward, they are not going to make a Palestinian statehood more real," he said.

"They boycott Israel. They refuse to talk to us. Who do they plan to make peace with?" he said.
Surveys indicate most Palestinians have become disillusioned with prospects of setting up a state through negotiations. Two decades of talks have failed to produce results, marred by intransigence and repeated bouts of violence.

The vote comes at an important time domestically for Abbas, who has watched his political rival, the Islamic militant group Hamas, gain popularity, particularly after holding its own during an Israeli offensive on Hamas-ruled Gaza earlier this month. The military action was aimed at stopping almost daily rocket barrages from the Gaza Strip at southern Israel.

Hamas, which seized control of Gaza from Abbas in 2007, argues that negotiations with Israel are a waste of time, but Hamas leaders have come out in support of the U.N. bid in recent days.

During Israel's Gaza offensive, Abbas was largely sidelined at his compound in the West Bank, underscoring international concerns that the deadlock in peace efforts is increasingly weakening him and other Palestinian pragmatists.

Abbas aides have said they expect key European countries to support the U.N. bid in an attempt to strengthen Abbas.

France, Spain, Norway, Denmark and Switzerland have pledged support. Germany said it would not support the initiative, while Britain's foreign secretary said his government would not oppose it. He said Britain would only vote in favor if the Palestinians softened some of the language.

Israel appeared to be backing away from plans to immediately punish the Palestinians for going to the U.N. Instead, an Israeli government official said Israel would wait to see whether the Palestinians would use the world body's expected approval to hurt Israel.

The Palestinians plan to seek membership or access to a number of international and U.N. agencies, including the International Criminal Court, once their statehood bid is approved.

Israel would respond "forcefully" if the Palestinians try to pursue war crimes charges against Israel at the ICC, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss policy considerations. If the Palestinians use their upgraded international status "as a tool to confront Israel in the international arena, there will be a response."

Until then, he said, Israel will be bound by its obligations to the Palestinians under existing peace agreements, but won't necessarily go beyond them. Earlier there was talk of Israel's retaliating by canceling the partial peace accords.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 28, 2012, 07:34:59 PM
We'll see tomorrow how many countries around the world support the right of Jews to settle the West Bank and pretend they own the place. 


http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-won-t-punish-palestinians-for-un-statehood-bid.premium-1.480997#


Israeli ambassadors worldwide have been instructed to pressure every country to publish an announcement, regardless of how they will vote, emphasizing that the borders of the Palestinian state and the other core issues will be decided only by direct negotiations with Israel. The ambassadors have been asked to demand that the announcements will acknowledge that this symbolic decision does not change facts on the ground and does not recognize Palestinian sovereignty over the West Bank, Gaza Strip or East Jerusalem.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Rossfan on November 28, 2012, 09:15:25 PM
In other words the whole world is out of step except the rogue State of Israel  >:(
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 29, 2012, 05:20:35 AM
An Israel that opposes the UN resolution is an Israel that wants to strengthen Hamas and a return of terror.

By Gideon Levy | Nov.29, 2012 | 1:27 AM

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/november-29.premium-1.481277#.ULbribHTrMM.facebook

The writer Amos Oz recalls that day, 65 years ago, in his novel "A Tale of Love and Darkness": "On Saturday morning, they said, the General Assembly would convene at a place called Lake Success and there they would determine our fate. 'Who is for life and who for destruction,' said Mr. Abramski."

Abramski was right. If he were alive today, he would have similar things to say about want will happen tonight in the UN General Assembly. Who is for life and who for destruction. If Israel was a wise and reasonable country, it would have to join the family of nations this evening, not including Micronesia, and vote proudly for the completion of the previous vote on November 29: two states for two peoples. And if there were a real peace camp in Israel, its members would flock en masse to the tiny rally being held in front of Independence Hall in Tel Aviv, where this State of Israel was declared.

But Israel, as usual, says no. First, hurling childish threats, with unparalleled chutzpah, bullying and condescension: we'll punish the Palestinian Authority; we'll hit it in its pocket; we'll build 3,000 apartments in the settlements. And now, in a weaker voice, we're "lowering our profile." And no is still no.

When Israel says no, what does it mean? That the talk of two states is one big fraud; that it simply doesn't want peace; that the world can go jump in a lake; that the Palestinians are forbidden to fight for their freedom, either with weapons or with diplomacy; no to Hamas and no to PA President Mahmoud Abbas. No, and no. Jerusalem's thousand nos.

Israel will say no tonight, not just to the Palestinians, but to the whole world, except its patron, the United States, which will apparently humiliate itself again and draw even more hatred by voting automatically with Israel. Most Israelis will not even ask themselves how we reached the point at which the entire world really is against us; whether, perhaps, Israel has some part in it, to which voting against the resolution will only add.

"The automatic majority," as Israel disparagingly calls the sane majority in the United Nations, will vote for recognition of Palestine as a nonmember state. Because that is the right and necessary step to take; Israeli propagandizing word play will not help. "A unilateral step," Israel, in its temerity, calls it, while Israel builds more and more settlements in a step that is anything but multilateral. "A breach of the Oslo Accords," Israel accuses, although Israel never met its obligation for the "third phase," which was to have transferred most of the West Bank to Palestinian control 15 years ago.

An Israel that opposes the UN resolution is an Israel that wants to strengthen Hamas and a return of terror. There is no other way to explain its intransigence. But of all its baseless and foolish reasons for its opposition, one stands out: the danger that, after their change of status in the UN, the Palestinians will supposedly appeal to the International Criminal Court in The Hague regarding the war crime of moving the population of the occupying state into the occupied territories.

What exactly is Israel afraid of? After all, Retired Justice Edmond Levy will make it alright. In fact, he already has: the committee he headed has already determined that there is no occupation at all and the settlements are completely kosher. And so what is there to fear? Could it be that despite the acclaimed Levy report, there is something to worry about? After all, the International Criminal Court fights war crimes and is esteemed by the whole world. On the contrary, let Israel send retired Justice Levy to that court to present Israel's justified and persuasive arguments.

Mr. Abramski is long dead. So is Mrs. Tosia Krochmal, the neighbor of the young Amos on Amos Street in the Jerusalem neighborhood of Kerem Avraham who, 65 years ago, brought the extension cord from the sewing machine in her husband's doll hospital to the Lembergs' house, so they could bring their heavy black radio out to their balcony, to hear the "voices of Lake Success." This evening, no one will be listening to the radio. Israel will continue to bury its head in the sand, to disconnect from reality, to ignore the world, ignore justice and proclaim: No.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: glens abu on November 29, 2012, 09:35:52 AM
Well thats the Irish on their way to Gaza...... the generosity of the irish people again has been wonderful, this team of 13 women and men are heading to gaza to both build and strengthen links with the youth of gaza among others. We have seen just a glimpse of the daily sufferings the palestinian have to endure at the hands of the terrorist goverment and forces of israel and how they have defended their land and familys, Irish friends of Palestine will be meeting Palestinians from all walks of life and i know they will carry the message from us all here in Ireland that we are with them, we will be their voice when the world continues to ignore them... So good luck to Irish delegation, especially my friends MaryKate Quinn, Sinead MacLochlainn Phil Mc Cullough John Mallon Gerry MacLochlainn and Daithi Mac Giolla Mhaoil , there are no better people who are representative of the Irish....also a big fundraising night in the P.D this Saturday for Irish Medical Aid for Palestine helping to buy much needed medical equipment in labour wards and theatres in Gaza.. please show your support and come along..... Tiocfaidh ar Palestine

SF have organised street collections between 1pm and 3pm on Sat for Medical aid for Palestine and also holding a function in the PD club Belfast on Sat night,all welcome.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: glens abu on November 29, 2012, 01:16:17 PM
Sinn Féin MLA’s to visit GazaNovember 29, 2012

Sinn Féin MLA’s Pat Sheehan and Caitriona Ruane are to travel to Gaza this week as part of a European parliamentarian delegation. The purpose of the visit is to witness  first hand the situation in Gaza following eight days of intensive naval and aerial bombardment by Israeli forces.

Speaking ahead of the visit Mr Sheehan said:

“The impact on Gaza following a week of severe bombardment by Israeli forces is dramatic. It further compounds the destruction of infrastructure including roads, schools, hospitals, sanitation works and government buildings that have been destroyed or damaged in the Israeli assault four years ago.

“Given this and the ongoing illegal blockade by Israel which makes it extremely difficult to bring in the materials needed to rebuild this vital infrastructure the situation in Gaza is very serious.

“Myself and Caitriona Ruane will see first hand the damage that was caused indeed the human tragedy. We will meet with a the Al Dalu who lost ten family members when their house was hit by an Israeli missile. We will also meet with local politicians, NGO’s and UNRWA.”
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 29, 2012, 01:50:58 PM
This evenings vote at the UN has taken another few twists and turns, and it now looks like only the United States, Canada, Micronesia, the Marshall Islands and possibly the Czech Republic are voting for Israel. I have been very disappointed that in the past few years, Canada under Harper has joined the US stance in unconditional support for Israel.

Israel suffered a defeat in their 8 day "Pillar Of Cloud" attack both in Gaza and in PR damage. Tonight they will suffer another defeat and bar the countries mentioned above, Palestine will finally get some form of recognition from the world. It's the least they deserve after 64 years. There are now major cracks appearing in the Zionist dream, and time will only tell what happens next.

Today is world solidarity day for Palestine, and there is some excitement in Palestine today. It's been a tough couple of weeks, and maybe this vote can put a smile back on the faces of those who suffered for a little while.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/germany-backtracks-on-palestinian-bid-israeli-official-we-lost-europe.premium-1.481392

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and the Palestinian people are enjoying sweeping support in the lead up to Thursday night's vote at the UN General Assembly over whether to upgrade the Palestinians' standing to non-member observer status. By Thursday morning Israel time, that support had turned into a full-on landslide, as more European nations decided to alter their positions, essentially leaving Israel to fend for itself.

Early Thursday morning, just hours before the vote -- scheduled to take place around 11:00 P.M. (Israel time) -- Germany changed its mind, deciding to abstain from voting rather than opposing the Palestinian initiative, as Israel had assumed it would.

"The decision wasn't taken lightly," Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle said. "Germany shares the goal for a Palestinian state. We have campaigned for this in many ways, but the recent decisive steps towards real statehood can only be the result of negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians," the German official said.

The UN General Assembly is expected to pass a historic resolution recognizing Palestine within the 1967 borders as a non-member observer state.

At least 150 countries are expected to vote in favor of the resolution. In opposing the resolution, Israel is likely to find itself isolated with the United States, Canada, Micronesia, the Marshall Islands and possibly the Czech Republic – although sources at the Foreign Ministry said Germany's decision would likely affect the Czech vote as well.

This, in effect, leaves Israel without any European country supporting it at the international forum. Officials in Israel said that Germany's decision was influenced by Britain. "Britain's dramatic reversal prompted the Germans to change their mind," a Foreign Ministry official said. "We lost Europe. More than half of its countries will vote with the Palestinians, and the rest will abstain."

Bulgaria and Romania, with whom Israel has held intensive discussions in the last day, have also backtracked on their positions, as both intend to abstain. Belgium, meanwhile announced Thursday morning that it will vote in favor of the Palestinians. Belgium's foreign minister Didier Reynders said his UN envoy will stress that his country urges the renewal of negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians.

Speaking in Jerusalem hours before the vote, Prime Minister Netanyahu said the UN General Assembly's recognition of Palestine as a non-member observer state "will not change anything on the ground." Netanyahu denounced the international community and said that, "No matter how many fingers are raised against us, there is no power in the world that can force Israel to compromise on its security."

Netanyahu said the decision will not advance the establishment of a Palestinian state, but rather push it farther away. "Israel's hand is outstretched in peace, but a Palestinian state will not be formed without recognition of Israel as the Jewish state," the prime minister said.

"A Palestinian state will not rise without declaring an end to the conflict and without security arrangements that protect Israel's citizens. None of these issues are mentioned in the UN General Assembly decision. These are just some of the reasons why we are rejecting the proposed resolution."

Netanyahu added: "Peace can only be achieved through direct negotiations without preconditions between the parties, and not through unilateral decisions made at the UN. I suggest we not pay heed to the applause at the UN. I remember when Israel's unilateral disengagement from Gaza received international applause; we got applause and then rockets. Israel withdrew from Gaza and Iran went in. The same exact thing happened when we left Lebanon. As prime minister, I will not allow the growth of another Iranian terror base in Judea and Samaria – the heart of the country – just a kilometer outside of central Jerusalem."
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: glens abu on November 29, 2012, 02:03:44 PM
This evenings vote at the UN has taken another few twists and turns, and it now looks like only the United States, Canada, Micronesia, the Marshall Islands and possibly the Czech Republic are voting for Israel. I have been very disappointed that in the past few years, Canada under Harper has joined the US stance in unconditional support for Israel.

Israel suffered a defeat in their 8 day "Pillar Of Cloud" attack both in Gaza and in PR damage. Tonight they will suffer another defeat and bar the countries mentioned above, Palestine will finally get some form of recognition from the world. It's the least they deserve after 64 years. There are now major cracks appearing in the Zionist dream, and time will only tell what happens next.

Today is world solidarity day for Palestine, and there is some excitement in Palestine today. It's been a tough couple of weeks, and maybe this vote can put a smile back on the faces of those who suffered for a little while.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/germany-backtracks-on-palestinian-bid-israeli-official-we-lost-europe.premium-1.481392

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and the Palestinian people are enjoying sweeping support in the lead up to Thursday night's vote at the UN General Assembly over whether to upgrade the Palestinians' standing to non-member observer status. By Thursday morning Israel time, that support had turned into a full-on landslide, as more European nations decided to alter their positions, essentially leaving Israel to fend for itself.

Early Thursday morning, just hours before the vote -- scheduled to take place around 11:00 P.M. (Israel time) -- Germany changed its mind, deciding to abstain from voting rather than opposing the Palestinian initiative, as Israel had assumed it would.

"The decision wasn't taken lightly," Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle said. "Germany shares the goal for a Palestinian state. We have campaigned for this in many ways, but the recent decisive steps towards real statehood can only be the result of negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians," the German official said.

The UN General Assembly is expected to pass a historic resolution recognizing Palestine within the 1967 borders as a non-member observer state.

At least 150 countries are expected to vote in favor of the resolution. In opposing the resolution, Israel is likely to find itself isolated with the United States, Canada, Micronesia, the Marshall Islands and possibly the Czech Republic – although sources at the Foreign Ministry said Germany's decision would likely affect the Czech vote as well.

This, in effect, leaves Israel without any European country supporting it at the international forum. Officials in Israel said that Germany's decision was influenced by Britain. "Britain's dramatic reversal prompted the Germans to change their mind," a Foreign Ministry official said. "We lost Europe. More than half of its countries will vote with the Palestinians, and the rest will abstain."

Bulgaria and Romania, with whom Israel has held intensive discussions in the last day, have also backtracked on their positions, as both intend to abstain. Belgium, meanwhile announced Thursday morning that it will vote in favor of the Palestinians. Belgium's foreign minister Didier Reynders said his UN envoy will stress that his country urges the renewal of negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians.

Speaking in Jerusalem hours before the vote, Prime Minister Netanyahu said the UN General Assembly's recognition of Palestine as a non-member observer state "will not change anything on the ground." Netanyahu denounced the international community and said that, "No matter how many fingers are raised against us, there is no power in the world that can force Israel to compromise on its security."

Netanyahu said the decision will not advance the establishment of a Palestinian state, but rather push it farther away. "Israel's hand is outstretched in peace, but a Palestinian state will not be formed without recognition of Israel as the Jewish state," the prime minister said.

"A Palestinian state will not rise without declaring an end to the conflict and without security arrangements that protect Israel's citizens. None of these issues are mentioned in the UN General Assembly decision. These are just some of the reasons why we are rejecting the proposed resolution."

Netanyahu added: "Peace can only be achieved through direct negotiations without preconditions between the parties, and not through unilateral decisions made at the UN. I suggest we not pay heed to the applause at the UN. I remember when Israel's unilateral disengagement from Gaza received international applause; we got applause and then rockets. Israel withdrew from Gaza and Iran went in. The same exact thing happened when we left Lebanon. As prime minister, I will not allow the growth of another Iranian terror base in Judea and Samaria – the heart of the country – just a kilometer outside of central Jerusalem."

Thats good news for a change,maybe the tide is turning at last.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Denn Forever on November 29, 2012, 04:09:59 PM
Please, no more rockets into israel.  Don't give them any excuse.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 29, 2012, 04:32:06 PM
Please, no more rockets into israel.  Don't give them any excuse.
This Gaza turkey shoot was different



http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/a-special-place-in-hell/the-washington-post-s-israel-problem-and-ours.premium-1.481395

From a distance, you might well think nothing's changed. From a distance of 6,000 miles or so, it might elude notice that every single war destroys Israel. Every one, every time. Each war here is a watershed. It leaves an entirely different Israel and different Israelis in its wake.
You can't see it, but this war changed everyone here. Out of view, deep inside, something shifted. For some, it may have been the horrifying sense that this is what we can expect - from the other side and from ourselves as well - every couple of years. Forever. Like hurricanes in Haiti. Bombs, rockets, a new cohort of children with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. And every single time, it comes closer to your own home. Wherever you are.


Maybe Jewish Israelis will eventually understand what the last 65 years have been like for the Palestinians.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Itchy on November 29, 2012, 06:49:51 PM
Please, no more rockets into israel.  Don't give them any excuse.
This Gaza turkey shoot was different



http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/a-special-place-in-hell/the-washington-post-s-israel-problem-and-ours.premium-1.481395

From a distance, you might well think nothing's changed. From a distance of 6,000 miles or so, it might elude notice that every single war destroys Israel. Every one, every time. Each war here is a watershed. It leaves an entirely different Israel and different Israelis in its wake.
You can't see it, but this war changed everyone here. Out of view, deep inside, something shifted. For some, it may have been the horrifying sense that this is what we can expect - from the other side and from ourselves as well - every couple of years. Forever. Like hurricanes in Haiti. Bombs, rockets, a new cohort of children with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. And every single time, it comes closer to your own home. Wherever you are.


Maybe Jewish Israelis will eventually understand what the last 65 years have been like for the Palestinians.

Is the last line in your post your own thoughts or from the article?
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 29, 2012, 08:13:34 PM
 It has been a bad fortnight for Zionism. Tel Aviv hit by missiles from Gaza. A humiliating ceasefire.
The Likud is taken over by extremists.  And now not one of the 27 countries of the EU votes in support of Israeli colonialism at the UN.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: hardstation on November 29, 2012, 09:59:26 PM
Well thats the Irish on their way to Gaza...... the generosity of the irish people again has been wonderful, this team of 13 women and men are heading to gaza to both build and strengthen links with the youth of gaza among others. We have seen just a glimpse of the daily sufferings the palestinian have to endure at the hands of the terrorist goverment and forces of israel and how they have defended their land and familys, Irish friends of Palestine will be meeting Palestinians from all walks of life and i know they will carry the message from us all here in Ireland that we are with them, we will be their voice when the world continues to ignore them... So good luck to Irish delegation, especially my friends MaryKate Quinn, Sinead MacLochlainn Phil Mc Cullough John Mallon Gerry MacLochlainn and Daithi Mac Giolla Mhaoil , there are no better people who are representative of the Irish....also a big fundraising night in the P.D this Saturday for Irish Medical Aid for Palestine helping to buy much needed medical equipment in labour wards and theatres in Gaza.. please show your support and come along..... Tiocfaidh ar Palestine

SF have organised street collections between 1pm and 3pm on Sat for Medical aid for Palestine and also holding a function in the PD club Belfast on Sat night,all welcome.

I didn't know David Bell went by that name. In fact, when I knew him he had little or no Irish.

BTW, what is Tiocfaidh ar Palestine?

In saying that, I might go to the PD for that (and to have a nosey around the new club).
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on November 29, 2012, 10:06:26 PM
And the voting has taken place, with 138 countries voting for, 9 against and 41 abstentions. Well done Palestine, and the people have something to be happy about tonight. Excellent news, and may this be another blow to the Zionist dream......
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 29, 2012, 10:18:37 PM
Zionism is a nightmare.

And the Yanks are a total joke. Like whoever it was at the BBC who protected Jimmy Savile from exposure as a paedo.

All Israel has behind it is Lobby money. If you asked most US senators they probably only do it for the money.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Itchy on November 29, 2012, 10:54:54 PM
Looks like America doesn't like democracy too much anymore.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 29, 2012, 10:59:23 PM
Countries that voted against Palestine's UN bid: Canada, Czech Republic, Palau, Nauru, Micronesia, Marshall island, Panama, US, Israel.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Puckoon on November 30, 2012, 01:05:13 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20415886 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20415886)

An article based on the legalities of war. It uses examples from the recent violence in Gaza and I found it interesting. Some folks might find it useful also, particularly those who asked questions during the violence as to the rights and wrongs and the whodunnit etc etc...

International law regulates the use of military force by states and the conduct of hostilities.

As in virtually every modern conflict, there is intense debate on the legality of the actions of the two sides involved here - Israel and Hamas.

Israel argues that its Operation Pillar of Defence is justified under the right of self-defence. This position has in principle been supported by various countries, including the US and EU member states.

Enshrined in Article 51 of the UN Charter, the right of self-defence is accepted as a fundamental principle of international law. While aspects of this principle are disputed, it is universally agreed that a state can defend itself against an armed attack.

There is some debate as to the intensity that an armed attack should reach before a state can lawfully resort to self-defence. Most international lawyers would agree that rockets launched against civilians that disrupt the social life of part of a country constitute an armed attack for the purposes of Article 51.

Self-defence
 
A case for self-defence is sometimes contested on factual grounds, for example with the argument that it was the other side that attacked first. In this case, critics of the Israeli position also advance two legal arguments.

First, they argue that the right of self-defence should be invoked only against another state, but not against a non-state entity like Gaza. State practice, especially since the attacks of 11 September 2001, militates against this interpretation of self-defence.


Secondly, some commentators maintain that Gaza is still subject to Israeli occupation because of the ongoing blockade, and that Israel cannot rely on self-defence in an occupied territory. Israel argues against this, pointing to its withdrawal from Gaza in 2005.

In a legal sense, "blockade" and "occupation" are concepts that have been understood in international law as distinct for some time. The conflation of the two is novel, and it runs into logical difficulties when its proponents characterise a ground operation as an "invasion".

The right of self-defence is no blank cheque. International law allows states to defend themselves only with force that is necessary and proportionate.

A common misperception is that proportionality in self-defence means an eye for an eye, a rocket for a rocket, or a casualty for a casualty. This is not so: there is no place in international law for using force in revenge.


“The principle of humanity must however be balanced against the principle of military necessity”

In some cases, a necessary and proportionate response will entail the use of greater military force than was involved in the original attack; in other cases, it will be possible for a country to defend itself effectively with less force.

The principle of self-defence belongs to the body of international law that regulates resort to force or "going to war" (often referred to by the Latin term jus ad bellum, that is "law to war").

The other relevant body of international law regulates the conduct of hostilities once the conflict has started. It is known as the law of armed conflict (or the jus in bello that is "law in war").

International law maintains a strict separation between these two bodies of law.

Starting a war off on the right side of the law does not give a state more rights in the conduct of hostilities than its enemies. It is possible for a state that resorted to force lawfully to commit unlawful acts in the course of an armed conflict - and vice versa.

Humanity
 
The law of armed conflict also limits the amount of force that states can lawfully use.

 It is not easy to establish the facts during or after an armed conflict
A key principle is that of humanity: belligerents should always avoid unnecessary suffering.

The principle of humanity must however be balanced against the principle of military necessity.

The legal manual used by the British armed forces says that military necessity allows a state to use force, unless otherwise prohibited, which is "required in order to achieve the legitimate purpose of the conflict, namely the complete or partial submission of the enemy at the earliest possible moment and with the minimum expenditure of life and resources".

The argument that the Israeli bombardments are ineffective because they have so far failed to completely stop rocket attacks can cut both ways.

Strategically, it may identify a fundamental weakness in the Israeli response and suggest the pursuit of non-forcible alternatives. But, from a military necessity angle, it may justify an escalation in the force that Israel uses so as to achieve the objective of averting the attacks.

Of course, the fact that the law authorises a certain action does not make it wise in a political or strategic sense.

“International law defines military objectives as 'objects which... make an effective contribution to military action... and whose total or partial destruction... offers a definite military advantage'”

Distinction
 
A cornerstone in the law of armed conflict is the principle of distinction: parties to a conflict must distinguish between combatants and civilians at all times.

Various specific rules flesh out the content of this principle. Attacks on civilians and civilian objects are always banned. Attacks may be conducted against combatants or non-combatants who directly participate in hostilities, and against military objectives.

The principle of distinction also prohibits acts or threats of violence aimed at spreading terror among civilians, as well as attacks carried out with means which by their nature cannot target a specific military objective. The launching of missiles against southern Israel is said to breach distinction.

But when does an object become a legitimate military target?

International law defines military objectives as "objects which... make an effective contribution to military action... and whose total or partial destruction... offers a definite military advantage".

Rocket launchers and ammunition depots are in this category. Problems arise with so-called dual-use targets, such as the Serbian TV station bombed by Nato during the 1999 Kosovo War and the media building targeted by Israel in the course of Operation Pillar of Defence.

Proportionality
 
What about a building which contains a military objective, such as a rocket launcher, but which also houses civilians?

 An accusation levelled against Hamas is that it endangers its own civilians
This example illustrates the importance of another pillar of the law of armed conflict: the principle of proportionality. Whenever there is a risk of loss of civilian life or damage to civilian property, belligerents are required to balance the anticipated military advantage with the risks posed to civilians and their property.

In some cases this may mean - as the former president of the International Court of Justice, Judge Rosalyn Higgins, wrote in one of her judgements - that "even a legitimate target may not be attacked if the collateral civilian casualties would be disproportionate to the specific military gain from the attack".

An attacker is also under a duty to call off an attack immediately if, in the course of it, it realizes that civilians would face excessive risk.

An attacker targeting military objectives in a densely populated area like Gaza must do everything feasible to verify the nature of the targets and avoid errors.

The practice of dropping leaflets or calling residents before a bombing is presented by Israel as evidence of its efforts to comply with these rules, although critics reply that these methods are not always effective and do not in any event prevent the destruction of civilian property.

Obligations
 
A frequent accusation levelled against Hamas is that it deliberately endangers its own civilians by placing military objectives in their midst.

 
“Ultimately, the legality of a particular targeting decision will often depend on who is right about what happened”

This is certainly a serious breach of the laws of armed conflict, but it does not mitigate Israel's obligation to continue to take all necessary precautions to minimise loss of civilian life.

All modern armed forces, including the Israel Defense Forces, have specialists on the law of armed conflict who are involved in the approval of targets.

Ultimately, the legality of a particular targeting decision will often depend on who is right about what happened. Was there a genuine military objective? Was it possible in the circumstances to hit that target while avoiding any loss of civilian life? What did the attacker know or should have known?

Establishing these facts during an armed conflict, or in its aftermath, is no easy feat.

However, when the attacker deliberately targets civilian objects, there is no version of the facts capable of justifying his actions under the laws of armed conflict.

The legal regulation of war is a sombre affair. This is an area of the law where starry-eyed idealism may be counterproductive.

It is better to remind ourselves that during an armed conflict, the law can at best reduce suffering but never eliminate it; and that wars, even those fought with a scrupulous observance of all the rules in the book, are always a scourge.

Guglielmo Verdirame is professor of International Law at the Department of War Studies and Dickson Poon School of Law, King's College London.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on November 30, 2012, 04:58:13 PM
Israel will build 3000 apartments for Jewish settlers in an area that will cut the West Bank in 2 and deny the possibilty of a Palestinian state


http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/in-response-to-un-vote-israel-to-build-3-000-new-homes-in-settlements.premium-1.481695

In response to UN vote, Israel to build 3,000 new homes in settlements

Netanyahu orders thousands of new housing units in East Jerusalem and the West Bank; controversial plans for new construction in the E1 area near Jerusalem will be advanced, contrary to commitments made to the Obama administration.

 By Barak Ravid | Nov.30, 2012 | 5:36 PM



Israel plans to build some 3,000 new housing units in East Jerusalem and West Bank settlements in response to the Palestinians' successful bid for recognition at the UN General Assembly this week, a senior diplomatic source told Haaretz on Friday.
 
According to the source, Israel also plans to advance long-frozen plans for the E1 area, which covers an area that links the city of Jerusalem with the settlement of Ma'aleh Adumim.

If built, the controversial plan would prevent territorial contiguity between the northern and southern West Bank, making it difficult for a future Palestinian state to function.
 
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on December 02, 2012, 04:07:44 PM
Ceasefire update : Israel has killed 2 Palestinians , wounded 43 and arrested 19 fishermen since the ceasefire began. Last night, a shell hit a house and 4 people were injured, 2 seriously.

They are trying to get the resistance in Gaza to retaliate, and then they can go back to full scale attack. They are a wounded state at the minute, and they are lashing out.

On top of the announcement of 3,000 new illegal houses, they are now to hold $120 million in taxes due to be paid to the Palestinian Authority. The sooner Palestine take them to the international court the better.

Then, there is this new 'Site 911' that is to be built by the US in Israel.......

U.S. Army Corps of Engineers taking bids to build complex for Israeli Air Force
 
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is receiving bids to build a five-story complex for the Israeli Air Force, or IAF, near Tel Aviv.

The facility, mysteriously dubbed "site 911," will be built under the auspices of the Foreign Military Sales program and is expected to cost the U.S. between $25 million and $100 million, according to a solicitation for bids posted on a U.S. government website.

Only U.S. construction firms are able to bid on this contract, and the deadline for proposals is December 3, according to the notice. The notice, first reported on by The Washington Post, includes structural plans that show the first three underground floors are roughly 41,000 square feet and will include classrooms on Level 1, an auditorium on Level 3 and shock-resistant doors throughout.

The architectural plans, drawn up by prominent Israeli firm Ada Karmi-Melamede Architects, pays close attention to the aesthetics of the design as well as the functional parameters outlined in the solicitation. For example, three picnic tables are planned for the exterior.

Atypical to most Corps of Engineers contracts, the contractor hired will be required to supply mezuzahs, which it describes as parchment inscribed with Torah verses, "for each door or opening exclusive of toilets or shower rooms." Generally, mezuzahs are placed in a case and attached to a door frame as a sign of the Jewish faith.

The construction site, on an established Israeli Air Force base, will be guarded by "an Israeli citizen who served in the IAF" and will be separated from military installations with a solid 6-foot fence. Despite the precautions taken around the base, construction workers will be subject to stringent security regulations. Non-Israeli employees are required to arrive on and exit from the site "in a group only"; "the fenced area shall have one gate only for both entering and exiting the site"; and during work hours, employees are prohibited from leaving the base.

The notice also states that the employment of non-Israeli citizens is forbidden, except those from "the U.S., Canada, Western Europe countries, Poland, Moldavia, Thailand, Philippines, Venezuela, Romania and China." It specifies that the employment of Palestinians is strictly prohibited. In addition, it says, "the Contracting Officer retains all rights to refuse or inhibit employment of any employee."

Site 911 appears to be one of the largest facilities built by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which maintains three offices in Israel and has been credited with building a variety of facilities for the Israel Defense Forces over the last few years, including underground hangars for Israeli fighter-bombers and command centers. The purpose of Site 911 remains unclear.

The Israeli Embassy in Washington and the Israel Defense Forces did not respond to requests from CNN for comment.
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: seafoid on December 02, 2012, 04:28:57 PM
More news from Israel
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-confiscates-nis-460-million-in-palestinian-authority-tax-funds.premium-1.481888#

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz decided Sunday to confiscate the tax revenues that Israel collected for the Palestinian Authority during the month of November, and use it to offset the PA's debt to Israel's Electric Corporation.

The move comes in response to Thursday's upgrade of Palestine at the United Nations to nonmember observer state, following a vote of 138 to 9. Following the upgrade, Israel announced on Friday that it intends on building 3,000 new homes in settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank.

The confiscation of funds, which total NIS 460 million and are intended for the salaries of PA officials, comes after Israel warned of the move ahead of the UN vote. On November 11, Steinitz warned: "If the Palestinians continue to advance their unilateral move they should not expect bilateral cooperation. We will not collect their taxes for them and we will not transfer their tax revenues."

However, as the Israeli government weighed the legal implications following last week's UN General Assembly vote, it was not expected to rescind the economic accords that govern relations with the Palestinian Authority or do anything that would bring about its collapse.

In the weekly meeting on Sunday, Israel's cabinet unanimously decided to reject the UN decision to upgrade Palestine's status. In the decision, it was written that the West Bank is a "contested area" over which the "Jewish people have a natural right."

Moreover, the cabinet decision also stated that the UNGA decision "will not serve as the basis to future negotiations with the Palestinian Authority and it cannot advance a peaceful solution."

Netanyahu also compared the recent UN General Assembly decision to recognize Palestine as a nonmember state with observer status to the 1975 UNGA decision that equated Zionism with racism. During the weekly cabinet meeting, Netanyahu read out the cabinet decision from 1975 in which then Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin said that in response to the UN decision, Israel will accelerate plans to settle in various parts of the country, as well as in West Bank settlements. 

Ahead of the PA's expected upgrade at the UN, Israeli officials had weighed a number of retaliatory steps, such as reconsidering the provisions of the Oslo Accords, including the 1994 Paris Protocol.

The protocol regulates economic ties between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, tasking the former with collecting taxes and customs duties on the latter's behalf, amounting to around $100 million a month on goods imported into the Palestinian territories

Israel has previously frozen payments to the Palestinian government during times of heightened security and diplomatic tensions, provoking strong international criticism.

In 2011, Israel froze November's transfer of October's $100 million in tax funds to punish the Palestinians for their efforts to win UN recognition of their independence. The Israeli decision came after the Palestinians were accepted to the UN cultural agency UNESCO as part of a broader effort for admission as a full member state at the United Nations.

On November 30 that year, Israel announced that it would release the funds owed to the Palestinian Authority, ending a standoff that the Palestinians said had caused grave damage to their fragile economy.

The tax funds from customs duties and other fees are needed by the Palestinian government, the largest single employer in the Palestinian territories, to pay tens of thousands of workers, as well as security forces, which have won praise for their cooperation in halting militant attacks on Israelis.

The move followed heavy pressure from the United States, United Nations and Europe on Israel to free the money.
 
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: Rossfan on December 02, 2012, 04:59:22 PM
138 Countries are out of step with Israel .
The arrogance of the fcukers  ???
Title: Re: Israel massacre ongoing in Gaza, over 160 Palestinians murdered
Post by: give her dixie on December 03, 2012, 04:20:08 PM
UK and France summon Israeli envoys in settlements row

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20579248

Britain and France have both summoned Israeli ambassadors in protest at Israel's decision to approve the construction of 3,000 new homes in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

The UK said the move would cast doubt on Israel's "stated commitment to achieving peace with the Palestinians".

Israel authorised the 3,000 additional housing units a day after the UN voted to upgrade Palestinian status.

An official close to the prime minister said Israel would not change its mind.

"Israel will continue to stand by its vital interests, even in the face of international pressure, and there will be no change in the decision that was made," an official in Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office said.

Sweden has also summoned the Israeli ambassador, while Russia and Germany have expressed their opposition to the settlement plans.

The UN has warned the homes would be "an almost fatal blow" to peace hopes.


Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu: "We will continue building in Jerusalem and anywhere on Israel's strategic map"


In a statement, the UK Foreign Office said it was urging Israel to reconsider, and threatened a "strong reaction" if the homes went ahead.

It said: "We deplore the recent Israeli government decision to build 3,000 new housing units and unfreeze development in the E1 block. This threatens the viability of the two state solution."

Plans for construction in the E1 area - between Jerusalem and the West Bank settlement of Maaleh Adumim - are strongly opposed by Palestinians, who say such development will prevent the creation of a contiguous Palestinian state.

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon earlier warned that the E1 plans would have to be rescinded.


Analysis


Jonathan Marcus
BBC Diplomatic Correspondent
The British and French governments have made their displea