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Tyrone would have beaten almost anybody today, but Dublin were dreadful. They have a squad full of good players but no great ones. Alan Brogan is obviously their best forward, but they should still have been capable of lifting their game when he went off. Instead, they lost their shape and their spirit at a very early stage. If it had not been for a freak goal before half-time, they could have lost by 15 or 20 points.

Tyrone proved that form is temporary but class is permanent. In their first five games, they only played really well in the first 20 minutes of the drawn game in Omagh. However, when the AI series came around, they were like greyhounds out of the traps.

Dooher was fantastic throughout, but it was an outstanding team display. Above all, it was a triumph for Harte. If O'Neill, who is still only 28, was available, you would nearly make them favourites. It's lucky that they don't have to play Down too often...

A minute's silence was observed at Croke Park today to mark the death of Paddy O'Hara, one of the great figures of the GAA in Ulster. Paddy had an incredible football career, starting off by winning an Ulster title with Antrim in 1946 and was one of the stars of the team which only lost narrowly and controversially to Kerry in the semi final. He also both played for and managed Queen's, and was in charge of the side which won the Sigerson for the first time in 1958. Many people feel that success was a big factor in Down's All Ireland break-through two years later.

Amazingly, Paddy went on to manage six of the nine Ulster counties at senior level. He was particularly well regarded during his time with Down in the mid-1960s, and, if an internal row which led to his resignation had been avoided, he might well have won an All Ireland there.

Paddy was later the main GAA commentator with the BBC, and was also a regular with RTE. He retired to live in the west of Ireland, and had been in poor health in recent years, but he will always be remembered as a true legend of the game.

It's a bit hard to believe that Oisin should announce his retirement by slagging off both his manager and his club and county keeper iin the space of the same sentence, as the BBC quote suggests - did he really say this ?

JMohan, your first ever post was at 10.22pm tonight and you have followed it with 14 others in the course of just over an hour. Time to take a deep breath...?

We don't have to worry about county football for another five months, but there were some lessons on display on Croke Park today. The main one was that, although we were dire by any standards last week, we were beaten by a very fine team.

Wexford have been championship regulars on Croke Park for the last few seasons, have beaten us comfortably home and away in the league over the last two years and won the 2008 division three in which we were lucky to finish third. It was amazing that we were odds-on favourites last Saturday, and it was a classic case of a team being ranked on its reputation from more than a decade ago.

Our defence has shown at least some signs of improvement this year, but it could not cope with the loss of Doyle and Cole. If they are both back next summer, if Howard and Turley continue to develop, if Carr and Murphy play to their potential and if Duffin and one or two others can be introduced, there would be the basis for the sort of defensive squad which is required at this level. That's a lot of `ifs', but you have to be an optimist when you follow Down. Throw in Ambrose and McComiskey, again if fit, and the bitter experience we gained through flopping in our first championship outing at Croke Park for 14 years, and there is a realistic prospect of further progress in 2009.

In other words, Ross and DJ should give it another go. We now know that, regardless of our draw in Ulster, we are capable of a run in the qualifiers. We are at least a year, possibly two, behind Wexford, but they have shown what is possible.

Take Your Points, I thought most of your analysis was very fair but you should watch the replay of the incident involving McDonnell and the Wexford defender on the Hogan sideline. McDonnell goes for the tackle and his hand makes contact with the face of the defender. I doubt if it was intentional, but it happened. There was a very similar incident with McDonnell and the Wexford keeper minutes earlier.

You are deluding yourself if you think that diving by either side or the performance of the referee was a factor in the result. Armagh had a couple of unusual and crucial handling errors mid-way through the second half, but Wexford absolutely dominated the final quarter, won by a convincing five points and were the fitter and faster side by a distance.

Croke Park, as everyone knows, is a huge pitch, and the statistic which is difficult to ignore is that Armagh have now lost four of their last five AI championship matches there (Tyrone 03, Fermanagh 04, Tyrone 05, Kerry 06 and today). The evidence is that Armagh can use astute tactics and physical strength, as well as two outstanding forwards,to grind down most opposition in Ulster, but simply do not have the pace to cope with the wide open spaces of Croker.

Look at the sheer speed of the Kerry attack when it came to the crunch in the second game,and the overall contribution of Galway's Meehan as well.

There are some outstanding Armagh players who are approaching the end of their careers, but they need to be replaced with younger, faster, options for success at HQ. 

Watching the replays closely, it seems that Stevie McDonnell made definite but probably accidental contact with the side of the face of both the keeper and a defender in his first two tackles.I don't think diving had anything to do with this result - the difference between the teams was pace in the final quarter

Coulter had a good season, with another four goals (and five assists) to add to his outstanding championship record. It did not really happen for him against Armagh, and we could not get the ball to him in the Wexford match. Luke Howard also did very well, although his first half in Omagh and his second half in Croke Park showed his inexperience.  Carr was probably just a little more consistent than either of them and his free-taking was top drawer. However, there's no doubt that Dan was the man this summer. It's just a pity that he could not find his best form on the biggest stage. He would not have won an All Star, but he probably lost the chance of a nomination as a result of the Wexford game. With a bit of luck, he might at least get the Ulster equivalent. Carr and Coulter should be in the reckoning there as well.

As far as I know, there were three Shamrocks players on the championship panel of 30 - the two Raffertys and McGuigan. There were also a number of players on stand-by, including Davey.

It's a bit difficult to believe that posters on this board are ready to have a go at Aidan Carr, but I suppose that goes with the territory when your father is the manager. He did struggle in the first half in Omagh, like every other Down player, but he settled after the break and was excellent in the replay. I thought he did reasonably well against Armagh, on a day when the suspension of Cole and the injury to Doyle left us even more vulnerable than usual at the back. He was impressive against Offaly and most people believe he also did very well when we were under intense pressure against Laois. I reckon he was our best player by a distance against Wexford.

However, the question for Islandboy is this. If Carr was not one of our two best performers this summer, then who, apart from Dan, had a better season than he did ? 

It's hardly surprising to find your half-back line struggling when you are being cleaned out at midfield. McGuigan is pretty clearly not a defender anyway, and Murphy was disappointing against Wexford by his usual high standards. That left Carr to try and hold the line together, and he did a decent job in difficult circumstances. Criticising him for missing one free when he has put over 23 others in his last five games is a bit rich. After Dan, he has probably been our player of the season.

This thread has always been for both club and county football, so perhaps its title should be changed. Carr played in the half-forward line last summer, and things did not work out for him in the crunch games against Monaghan and Meath. Coulter's supply in both those matches was very limited. By contrast, Carr looked an accomplished and confident figure at half back throughout this season. If Duffin or someone similar brings in a more physical presence alongside him, he could be even better next year.

I would not argue with Islandboy about Fegan and McGuigan, as there is little evidence that they are county standard. Murtagh has only ever played well for Down in flashes over many years. Apart from the Offaly game, when he was given an incredible amount of room, Murtagh has been disappointing all this summer.

Murney only made his championship debut this year, and, while he struggled badly in Omagh, he improved considerably in the qualifiers and was by no means our worst defender against Wexford. He is worth another season at least.

Hughes has become an enigma, brilliant in one game and anonymous the next. He ran himself into the ground against Laois, and had then looked exhausted mentally and physically against Wexford. He probably needs to be held back in the league, but someone with his pace and ability must deliver the goods in the championship at some stage.

Clarke is perhaps paying a price for his versatility, as he seems to pop up in a different position for Down every year. Wing forward might be his best bet next time.

Carr is a quality wing back who was forced to play at centre half because of injuries. His free taking alone - 23 kicks converted in his last five championship matches - would guarantee his place alone.

I felt that Brannigan and Maginn were both impressive throughout our u21 run in the spring, although they did not have their best games, like most of their colleagues, against Kildare. Brannigan, as already discussed, would be very small for county football, but Maginn is worth a look. 

Walsh is a decent player who sometimes lacked confidence and never seemed to have two good games in a row for Down. In 2006, he was MoM against Cavan in the USC preliminary round but was poor in the first round against Donegal and dropped for the qualifier disaster in Sligo. He was pretty ineffective in the 2007 championship as well, and it was not a big surprise when he was left out of this year's squad. However, he was studying in London for much of that period and, now that he is based at home again, and would still only be 26 or 27, I would certainly not rule him out next year. If he shows well for Mayobridge, and still has something to prove at county level, his ability is not in question.

Boyle played against Armagh and Derry in the National League last year without really catching the eye. If he has since filled out, and is capable of winning the ball, then he might be worth another look. There are probably others ahead of him in the queue.

Ciaran Brannigan was an outstanding minor, and also excellent for the u21s, but it is difficult to see how a player of his size could make an impact in senior county football. His clubmate, Conor Maginn, would be a more serious prospect. John Boyle from the Point got a run before, but also looked too light at county level and dropped out fairly quickly.