Tyrone County Football and Hurling

Started by Fear ón Srath Bán, April 01, 2007, 05:58:31 PM

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trailer

The fact that Peter Harte stayed on says everything you need to know about yesterdays performance on and off the field. Taking Sludden off was a ridiculous decision. Meyler as well was poor.

Harte must go. That game was there for the taking and was lost on the line. With Peter Donnelly exiting now is the time for a new fresh senior setup. Harte will never go of his own free will, so unfortunately he must be removed. I wouldn't be surprised to see a player revolt, with a lot of players declaring themselves unavailable if he stays on.

Tyrdub

Quote from: southtyronegael on August 11, 2019, 10:31:41 PM
If Peter harte was being tactically fouled as much as you say then why wasn't he moved into the full forward line where he would have won a few frees and been harder to get away with fouling him.

PH was being tactically fouled all day, some of it in front of Deegan who in my opinion was atrocious yesterday. Surely its a mark of how highly Kerry rate him when they went tot his extreme to take him out of the game. But I do agree, he should have been moved inside to see what damage he could do

Taylor

The disappointment of the result hasnt hit me yet - more anger and frustration - the game was there for the taking.

Ref was poor but didnt beat us - we did that ourselves.

PH should certainly have been moved up front out in the open. The amount of runs being blocked/bear hugs that went unpunished was incredible but its an AI semi final and he should have expected and indeed planned for that.
McShane was very good, won almost every ball that was kicked into him but he did miss a few handy scores.
Mattie was just ok - we needed a huge game from him.
Meyler had an off day.
Sludden had lost the head after getting booked for no reason but MH jumped the gun by taking him off - was playing well

IMHO the losing of the game was actually in the first half - we completely dominated and didnt go for the jugular. It seemed that we were happy to be a few points in front and thought we could continue that way in the second half.

Watching the game back last night I couldnt help but think the pick of both teams wouldnt beat the Dubs though

GetOverTheBar

Quote from: Tyrdub on August 12, 2019, 08:48:58 AM
Quote from: southtyronegael on August 11, 2019, 10:31:41 PM
If Peter harte was being tactically fouled as much as you say then why wasn't he moved into the full forward line where he would have won a few frees and been harder to get away with fouling him.

PH was being tactically fouled all day, some of it in front of Deegan who in my opinion was atrocious yesterday. Surely its a mark of how highly Kerry rate him when they went tot his extreme to take him out of the game. But I do agree, he should have been moved inside to see what damage he could do

If we are being honest it was just the same as what David Moran got - do you not recall two or three instances he was surrounded by a sea of white? They weren't saying hello.

McKernan stripped one of Kerry lads on sideline where I was and was roaring in his face all sorts.....I don't think I'd get away with typing it here.

Nothing to see re: tactical fouling.

clarshack

#10384
Quote from: trailer on August 12, 2019, 08:30:42 AM
The fact that Peter Harte stayed on says everything you need to know about yesterdays performance on and off the field. Taking Sludden off was a ridiculous decision. Meyler as well was poor.

At one stage in the 2nd half, did it not flash up on the big screen that Peter Harte was being replaced by Kyle Coney? was thinking to myself that's a first for MH to be taking him off for not playing well. Maybe if Kyle was on instead he would have made a better attempt for that goal chance that Peter Harte missed.

GetOverTheBar

Quote from: trailer on August 12, 2019, 08:30:42 AM
The fact that Peter Harte stayed on says everything you need to know about yesterdays performance on and off the field. Taking Sludden off was a ridiculous decision. Meyler as well was poor.

Harte must go. That game was there for the taking and was lost on the line. With Peter Donnelly exiting now is the time for a new fresh senior setup. Harte will never go of his own free will, so unfortunately he must be removed. I wouldn't be surprised to see a player revolt, with a lot of players declaring themselves unavailable if he stays on.

You could have taken all three off, Sludden was poor too. Meyler isn't a footballer but he has his uses....just wasn't to be for him yesterday and Peter Harte had little to no impact.

As for Harte going? Not happening, lets be honest.

tyrone08

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 12, 2019, 09:51:20 AM
Quote from: trailer on August 12, 2019, 08:30:42 AM
The fact that Peter Harte stayed on says everything you need to know about yesterdays performance on and off the field. Taking Sludden off was a ridiculous decision. Meyler as well was poor.

Harte must go. That game was there for the taking and was lost on the line. With Peter Donnelly exiting now is the time for a new fresh senior setup. Harte will never go of his own free will, so unfortunately he must be removed. I wouldn't be surprised to see a player revolt, with a lot of players declaring themselves unavailable if he stays on.

You could have taken all three off, Sludden was poor too. Meyler isn't a footballer but he has his uses....just wasn't to be for him yesterday and Peter Harte had little to no impact.

As for Harte going? Not happening, lets be honest.

Peter harte received a rough time of it aided by the ref letting kerry players do what they want to him. However it is a major failure on Mickeys behalf as i have never seen him sub peter harte in all my years watching.  Also a failure not at least move peter to closer to full forward.

As for mickey leaving there is no chance in hell. I fully expect after next year for the county board to offer him another extension and when that happens I will be washing my hands of tyrone.

Tyrdub

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 12, 2019, 09:15:52 AM
Quote from: Tyrdub on August 12, 2019, 08:48:58 AM
Quote from: southtyronegael on August 11, 2019, 10:31:41 PM
If Peter harte was being tactically fouled as much as you say then why wasn't he moved into the full forward line where he would have won a few frees and been harder to get away with fouling him.

PH was being tactically fouled all day, some of it in front of Deegan who in my opinion was atrocious yesterday. Surely its a mark of how highly Kerry rate him when they went tot his extreme to take him out of the game. But I do agree, he should have been moved inside to see what damage he could do

If we are being honest it was just the same as what David Moran got - do you not recall two or three instances he was surrounded by a sea of white? They weren't saying hello.

McKernan stripped one of Kerry lads on sideline where I was and was roaring in his face all sorts.....I don't think I'd get away with typing it here.

Nothing to see re: tactical fouling.

Sorry, as a half-neural here I have to disagree with you (and that's coming from someone who hated Tryone's dark arts specialists of the noughties). Yes Tyrone were in their faces but nowhere near the level of Kerry, and a lot of the Kerry tactics should have been carded, i dont think any Tyrone player should have been carded for off the ball stuff. I not saying they didn't do it, just they weren't as cynical or vociferous at it

GetOverTheBar

Quote from: Tyrdub on August 12, 2019, 10:07:08 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 12, 2019, 09:15:52 AM
Quote from: Tyrdub on August 12, 2019, 08:48:58 AM
Quote from: southtyronegael on August 11, 2019, 10:31:41 PM
If Peter harte was being tactically fouled as much as you say then why wasn't he moved into the full forward line where he would have won a few frees and been harder to get away with fouling him.

PH was being tactically fouled all day, some of it in front of Deegan who in my opinion was atrocious yesterday. Surely its a mark of how highly Kerry rate him when they went tot his extreme to take him out of the game. But I do agree, he should have been moved inside to see what damage he could do

If we are being honest it was just the same as what David Moran got - do you not recall two or three instances he was surrounded by a sea of white? They weren't saying hello.

McKernan stripped one of Kerry lads on sideline where I was and was roaring in his face all sorts.....I don't think I'd get away with typing it here.

Nothing to see re: tactical fouling.

Sorry, as a half-neural here I have to disagree with you (and that's coming from someone who hated Tryone's dark arts specialists of the noughties). Yes Tyrone were in their faces but nowhere near the level of Kerry, and a lot of the Kerry tactics should have been carded, i dont think any Tyrone player should have been carded for off the ball stuff. I not saying they didn't do it, just they weren't as cynical or vociferous at it

I see your point, the way I look at it, the game was there for Tyrone - they probably could/should have been home and hosed at HT and then they lost it both on the pitch and sideline. I don't really see the point in crying about dark arts when you were so easily the better team in the first half. I'm more annoyed at the stellar names on the Tyrone team no showing than what Kerry did - Kerry just did what they had to do to get over the line, i.e. Stephen O'Brien black and good luck to them.

I think the problem I really have is that year and year again we are sold a lie by some Tyrone fans - our players are best in Ireland (going through the qualifiers) but in the white heat of Croke Park they just aren't there and this is a repeat edition now unfortunately. I've accepted that Mickey Harte is staying to he's ready to go. Jesus I sound very negative but unless Tyrone unearth a couple of superstars in the next few months it's going to be the exact same next year surely.

Christmas Lights

Unfortunately this Tyrone team / squad are mentally weak on the really big days in Croke Park.  Seeing them up close, that is not a great Kerry team, not yet anyway, they are still young but Tyrone's experience really should have seen them prevail through this.  I see people meanting fitness, S&C, Maurice Deegan as reasons for the defeat but no, this was once again an implosion by Tyrone.  After a very comfortable first half, they went completely into their shell 2nd half and looked like they played with fear.  A fear of going ahead and actually winning the match against Kerry. 

Some bizarre calls on the line as well yesterday I felt and I am a Mickey Harte fan.  Peter Harte was getting a lot of abuse and wasn't getting into the game.  Just move him into the full forward line and then you have a normal defender against a normal forward situation.  I thought that was a pretty simple / obvious move.  Peter Harte didn't touch the ball for the first 19-20 minutes of the game as I remember his first touch and thinking that's the first time I've seen him.  Our best player and we cant get him into the match.  You have to do  / change something to get him on the ball and to start affecting the play.

Matty Donnelly & Frank Burns were going really well first half but faded out of it second half.  We still lack forwards with real scoring firepower.  McShane done well yesterday but bar him, we didn't have another cutting edge forward.  McAliskey on his day could possibly bring that to Tyrone but he doesn't seem to be trusted to start by the management.  Still need another few though, the likes of Kerry have O'Shea, Clifford, Geaney and O'Brien who can cause damage.  All Dublins forwards and their subs can tear defences to shreds.  Tyrone lack the firepower up front to really put manners on the top 2 or 3 teams.  We probably depending on the likes of Canavan and a couple from the under 20's to come through to give us some more options up front.  You wont win an all Ireland without 4-5 top forwards tbh.

In hiding

I see in mickeys post match interview he states that Tyrone have improved from last year. Anyone else think that?

Angelo

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 12, 2019, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: Tyrdub on August 12, 2019, 10:07:08 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 12, 2019, 09:15:52 AM
Quote from: Tyrdub on August 12, 2019, 08:48:58 AM
Quote from: southtyronegael on August 11, 2019, 10:31:41 PM
If Peter harte was being tactically fouled as much as you say then why wasn't he moved into the full forward line where he would have won a few frees and been harder to get away with fouling him.

PH was being tactically fouled all day, some of it in front of Deegan who in my opinion was atrocious yesterday. Surely its a mark of how highly Kerry rate him when they went tot his extreme to take him out of the game. But I do agree, he should have been moved inside to see what damage he could do

If we are being honest it was just the same as what David Moran got - do you not recall two or three instances he was surrounded by a sea of white? They weren't saying hello.

McKernan stripped one of Kerry lads on sideline where I was and was roaring in his face all sorts.....I don't think I'd get away with typing it here.

Nothing to see re: tactical fouling.

Sorry, as a half-neural here I have to disagree with you (and that's coming from someone who hated Tryone's dark arts specialists of the noughties). Yes Tyrone were in their faces but nowhere near the level of Kerry, and a lot of the Kerry tactics should have been carded, i dont think any Tyrone player should have been carded for off the ball stuff. I not saying they didn't do it, just they weren't as cynical or vociferous at it

I see your point, the way I look at it, the game was there for Tyrone - they probably could/should have been home and hosed at HT and then they lost it both on the pitch and sideline. I don't really see the point in crying about dark arts when you were so easily the better team in the first half. I'm more annoyed at the stellar names on the Tyrone team no showing than what Kerry did - Kerry just did what they had to do to get over the line, i.e. Stephen O'Brien black and good luck to them.

I think the problem I really have is that year and year again we are sold a lie by some Tyrone fans - our players are best in Ireland (going through the qualifiers) but in the white heat of Croke Park they just aren't there and this is a repeat edition now unfortunately. I've accepted that Mickey Harte is staying to he's ready to go. Jesus I sound very negative but unless Tyrone unearth a couple of superstars in the next few months it's going to be the exact same next year surely.


I've watched the game back on TV.

I don't think you can fault the Tyrone players for effort but there's definitely a mental weakness there when things aren't going their way, the routine mistakes that were being made when the tide turned are unforgivable at this level and they were punished. I think the quality of some of our players isn't good enough.

Tactically the game had all the parameters that I felt we needed to win, we broke even on the primary possession, our defence shape was solid and compact for most of the game, I don't think you could fault the defence on shirking their duties, I though the likes of McNamee, Hampsey, Brennan, Cassidy and McKernan all played very well. We know Geaney and Clifford are top class, I think they are generally going to hit 5-6 points from play in any game and they hit 7 yesterday, one was a gift from a Morgan pass gone astray so I don't think you can put much blame there. I thought Meyler did a good job on Sean O'Shea and really limited his impact from play.

O'Brien was the one Kerry forward who had a real impact, it looked like McGeary who was picking him up - I don't think he did too bad a job on him all and all but McGeary cost us the goal with a loose pass after a surge up the pitch. It was endemic of the panic and lack of composure in Tyrone when things started to go wrong and it was ruthlessly punished though felt Geaney was extremely lucky not to be pulled up for overcarrying. I think it was Mattie who was tracking him back and let him run through as well.

McShane has been our best player this season but he missed a poor free and hand another poor wide shortly after that, he also should have taken his point when he tried to find Harte for a goal. Peter Harte was anonymous and it was another very disappointing performance from him in a big game, I have sympathy for him as the ref was watching him being pulled, dragged and checked by the same players all game and did nothing about it but Petey just has to learn how to deal with the attention. Sludden was harshly pulled ashore too not long after a poor miss.

There's also a real killer instinct in that team, in the first half we had so many openings where a goal chance could or should have been created and you can guarantee if Dublin are afforded that type of space they will hit that Kerry backline for 4 or 5 goals.

In saying that we would still have won that game only for Deegan pulling Kerry into it when they were second best, they had three nonsense frees handed to them at the start of the second half.

I thought we went out with a whimper in the end, I could not understand how easy Kerry were allowed get their restarts off after we had it back to a 3 point game a number of times in the closing 8/9 minutes. Surely somebody on the team has to be making a conscious decision to get the team to go up man on man in that time period and make it a battle for possession, instead we allowed Kerry to get the ball off and play for a soft free that they were getting all day to kill the time.

I'm not averse to a change of management, Harte has another year on his term so will likely see it out. I just don't feel as if management is the issue here. It was a case of some really poor basic errors being made by the players when the game was going against them and a referee intent on helping the opposition when they were in a very bad place that decided that game.
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Angelo

Quote from: In hiding on August 12, 2019, 10:57:53 AM
I see in mickeys post match interview he states that Tyrone have improved from last year. Anyone else think that?

I think we have pretty much stayed fairly static, our performance yesterday was probably better than we performed against Monaghan this time last year.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

bgal10

Pretty frustrating defeat yesterday to be honest.  Had the feel of the Mayo QF defeat in 2016 - a game that was certainly there for the taking.  I don't think you can say the game was lost on the line.  Tactics were spot on in the first half and provided the platform to gain a 4 point lead.  You can argue it should have been more but I'll take a 4 point half time lead against Kerry any day. 

The goal was ultimately the huge turning point in the game.  What should have a been a score for us, turns into 3 for them and is a 4 point instant swing.  It's hard to legislate on the line for a terrible giveaway like that occurring.

Definitely don't think Deegan did us any favours.  Kerry got at least two ridiculous frees at the start of the second half to give them a foothold and there seemed to be a couple of strange free out decisions midway through the second half.  He also threw the ball up after the sludden booking incident where tyrone had possession inside the kerry half.  You can say its not about the referee but these points make a massive difference in a game.  Its very small margins, if Tyrone were given the same handy frees and the lead extends to 6 points, its probably done.

Feels though we are just missing that bit of real star star quality to get over the line.  McShane was great yesterday but we can't afford him to miss that free.  We also probably need him to be finishing off that goal chance.

What tactical changes specifically would others have made during the 2nd half that would have got us over the line?

The_Slug

Colm Cavanagh looks to have retired from the county scene, going by his latest tweet there. Great servant to the Tyrone jersey, always gave it his all. Massive gain for Moy in starred games, provided injuries don't reoccur.