The OFFICIAL Liverpool Supporters thread

[lynchbhoy]

Lynchbhoy that statement about Benitez is ludicrous. From that I would surmise that your knowledge of English soccer is comparable to your 'knowledge' of Derry football. Theres no questioning his record.

no questioning his record ?
I dont give a monkeys about his record elsewhere, and if you are a liverpool fan, the only record you shoul dbe looking at is his one from the time he arrived merseyside.
it is nothing to write home about.
Glossed over by CL and cup wins but there is nothing that I would compare with the great managers of Anfield when I used to support them as a boy from 1975 onwards - so if you are questioning me and my knowledge of liverpool, well it goes back quite a while. Long enough to compete with any of your own I would imagine.
However I dont wear rose coloured glasses when analysing benitez. He aint good enough imo.
Great in spain, but just has not delivered at anfield.
Or would you say he has ?

what about my knowledge of Derry football - whats your question there....if you cant back up your point, why attempt to sling mud?
doesnt look good for you !

[EC Unique]

Norf I hope the irony of the Chelsea fans singing to us last night 'your support is shit' wasnt lost on you. 21000 flags handed out post kickoff last night to try to create an atmosphere, which came nowhere near the decibel levels of Anfield. Why do the club feel the need to hand out these flags? Is it because they know the fans arent passionate enough about the team to bring their own? A contrived, fabricated atmosphere was witnessed last night, and the harsh reality of it all was exposed when Torres equalised, you would have sworn the mute was pressed on the Chelsea 'fans'.

PS- if thats the greatest atmosphere the place has even seen, I despair for you.

If atmosphere won premierships maybe Liverpool would have a few by now

How boring..yes the premiership started in 1993 with Sky. Before that nothing happened every saturday.

I suppose if United win the European Cup this month, then it will be a case of "We've won the Champions League twice, Liverpool have only won it once" 

I was paying complement to the Anfield atmosphere But you go and get all defensive    Ah well, cheer up there is always next year... again

[stevo-08]

I see the seasonal circle of this thread has gone full tilt too. Optimism in August, to who's in/who's out in April!

Norf, to be fair, most on here have said all through the season that we have alot of players who just arent up to the standard required to challenge for the PL. And the obvious time to discuss who should be replaced is when the season has finished, which happened to be last wednesday for Liverpool. I dont think there's anything wrong with that.

There's always going to be a bit of optimism in August just before the season starts but even the most die-hard Liverpool supporter would admit that there's no comparision between the current Liverpool squad and the squads at Man Utd & Chelsea.

That I cant answer

He just doesnt seem to fit into the club or hasnt really been ruthless enough
he is only marginally better (arguably) than houllier (measuring him on his team selections and tactics /changes when things go wrong - not on cups etc).

Was thinking recently, even if Liverpool had a bigger warchest than man u , chelsea etc, houllier would not be able to properly integrate any big money players as he just doesnt seem to have a fixed plan of how he wants a team to play and for me , that is the bottom line.
He has had long enough to buy players to fit into any scheme he has planned but just cannot deliver.

lynchbhoy, I think you're being very unfair to Rafa. Look at the players at his disposal compared to Chelsea & Man U. Utd paid big bucks for the likes of Rio, Hagreaves, Nani, Anderson, Rooney, Carrick, Tevez, Saha. Only Torres & Mascherano come into that bracket in the Liverpool squad and I think you'll agree that both of those players have integrated quite well. Skrtel is another acquisition who looks like he'll have a bright future.

Certainly Rafa isnt perfect and sometimes his tactics seem strange to put it mildly, but I wouldnt be showing him the gate just yet. Imagine if Utd got rid of Ferguson after 4 seasons!!! I think Rafa has 2 years left on his contract so give him the funds and lets see what he can do. If we're still not close to challenging the top teams at that stage then certainly you'd have to question if he's the right man for the job.

[nrico2006]

Ha ha I love this constant argument about Rafa etc getting the same time in the job as Fergie - I don't remember Fergir spending what Rafa did in his first 4 years in retrospect.

[bingobus]

Ha ha I love this constant argument about Rafa etc getting the same time in the job as Fergie - I don't remember Fergir spending what Rafa did in his first 4 years in retrospect.

Thats no counter argument, different times with far more money in the game. Fergie always had money and was always leading the way with buying players at the time - Ince, Keane, Pallister, Hughes, etc where all big buys at the time and prob record buys back then. So don't start giving it Rafa spent Zillions and Fergie didn't.

[Minder]

Ferguson has spent more in his local off license than some managers have spent on players in the Premiership......

[corn02]

Well done Nicro, the game was alot different back then.

[lynchbhoy]

lynchbhoy, I think you're being very unfair to Rafa. Look at the players at his disposal compared to Chelsea & Man U. Utd paid big bucks for the likes of Rio, Hagreaves, Nani, Anderson, Rooney, Carrick, Tevez, Saha. Only Torres & Mascherano come into that bracket in the Liverpool squad and I think you'll agree that both of those players have integrated quite well. Skrtel is another acquisition who looks like he'll have a bright future.

Certainly Rafa isnt perfect and sometimes his tactics seem strange to put it mildly, but I wouldnt be showing him the gate just yet. Imagine if Utd got rid of Ferguson after 4 seasons!!! I think Rafa has 2 years left on his contract so give him the funds and lets see what he can do. If we're still not close to challenging the top teams at that stage then certainly you'd have to question if he's the right man for the job.

Thats a valid argument
but if not benitez , who then is responsible for the decision to purchase players, to pick systems within which they all play and fit etc.

imo gerrard has not been as dominant or as brilliant as he can be or was prior to benitez joining - and if liverpools best player is not scaling the heights he can so easily and consistently do because of being played out of position or having an imbalance in the team selection or tactics
then imo there is only one place to look and one man to blame.

Yes it is a team game, but imo gerrard is sympomatic of the rest of liverpools players and the malady in the side.
Based on what I have seen, I just dont think benitez has it.
What the actual answer is, well I would have said capello, but its too late now.
How about rijkard?

[brokencrossbar1]

Liverpool make formal Barry bid
Eurosport - Fri, 02 May 14:12:00 2008
Liverpool have made a bid to sign Aston Villa captain Gareth Barry in a cash plus player exchange deal.

The Reds formally contacted Villa on Thursday with their bid for the England midfielder.

There has been speculation for the past fortnight that 27-year-old Barry has emerged as one of Rafael Benitez's major summer transfer tasrgets.

Benitez wants Barry to form a partnership with his England colleague and close friend Steven Gerrard.

Barry, who celebrates the 10th anniversary of his Villa debut next week, has made no secret of his desire to play Champions League football.

He is on more than £40,000 a week at Villa and could come close to doubling that if he moved to Anfield or Chelsea who have also been linked with the player.

The former Brighton trainee has already expressed a desire to hold talks with Villa manager Martin O'Neill to assess what his transfer plans are for the 2008-2009 campaign.

Villa are challenging strongly for a UEFA Cup spot but Barry wants to see whether Villa are in a position to move to the next level.

O'Neill pulled off a masterstroke in persuading Barry to sign a new four-year deal when he took charge of Villa in the summer of 2006.

But he may find it harder to persuade Barry to sign a new contract and to convince him to stay with the midlands club.

As predicted, money plus probably Carson.  Would it be wothwhile, I wonder throwing Riise in as well and doing a straight swap? 

[GalwayBayBoy]

Barry is a good player but where are they planning on playing him? We already have plenty of central midfielders unless Alonso is going to be sold this Summer?

Granted Barry can play centre midfield, left midfield and left-back.

[stevo-08]

Thats a valid argument
but if not benitez , who then is responsible for the decision to purchase players, to pick systems within which they all play and fit etc.

imo gerrard has not been as dominant or as brilliant as he can be or was prior to benitez joining - and if liverpools best player is not scaling the heights he can so easily and consistently do because of being played out of position or having an imbalance in the team selection or tactics
then imo there is only one place to look and one man to blame.

Yes it is a team game, but imo gerrard is sympomatic of the rest of liverpools players and the malady in the side.
Based on what I have seen, I just dont think benitez has it.
What the actual answer is, well I would have said capello, but its too late now.
How about rijkard?

Benitez has made plenty of mistakes in the transfer market but what manager hasnt - Fergie has bought some duds in his day (Veron, Forlan, Djemba Djemba, Barthez, kleberson), Mourinho bought flops like shevchenko, kezman, wright phillips, del horno, boulahrouz & even the genius wenger bought Reyes & Jeffers. It's not easy to get it right.

I think Gerrard has played well under Rafa, maybe not as brilliant as he once was but maybe he's getting more attention than previously (chelsea had makelele all over him like a rash on wednesday). I actually think finding a right position for gerrard is one of Rafa's biggest problems. IMO he should be played off torres for majority of games but against the top 3 teams, he should be played on right wing with (hopefully) 2 quality strikers up front.

By the way, if we're trying to blame someone, look no further than Rick Parry who's been a complete disaster as a CEO. The club seem to have completely stood still under his watch.

Barry is a good player but where are they planning on playing him? We already have plenty of central midfielders unless Alonso is going to be sold this Summer?

Granted Barry can play centre midfield, left midfield and left-back.

But we dont have plenty of "Good" central midfielders. Mascherano is a defensive midfileder and alonso just cant do it anymore. Lucas will be good in time. I think it's a very good piece of business if it goes through. He's a good player and has proven it in the PL already.

[bingobus]

I don't think changing manager is the answer yet. Rafa has had 4 years and has been relatively successfully in the cups, the league hasn't seen the title charge we have hoped or expected, particularly in the current year. I would put part of this down to him, not understanding the EPL as well he knows the European game but it has been a learning curve and he has 2 years to get there in my opinion. He has tried to play the squad game but does not have the players to do so.

Why 2 years? Well, that would have given him 6 years. Time to put his own team in place and get used to the EPL. Maybe at that stage he could be beat by goal difference on the last day and should be sacked then. Unlikely, its a moving target really. But if by each Febraury we are out of the title race, then yes ot may be time for a change. Plus he has recruited a massive amount of younf talent to the club that are currently in reserves, youth teams and on loan. They should be given team to come through, at most we should expect maybe 2 next year and maybe 2/3 per year thereafter.

We need another 4/5 first team players who should be starting the majority of games.

GK - Reina No.1, no need for change. Needs an undertudy. Intandje nowhere near first team standard. Martin and Austrian in reserves are also too young. Carson will hardly sit on bench. Harper from Newcastle has been mentioned as replacement and would do the job.

RB - Don't think Finnan or Arbeloa are good enough to be regular. Adequate squad members with Arbeloa's versatility prob given him the nob. Alves has been mentioned and would be ideal, good going forward and can deliver a good ball. Will be costly though. Degan for Dortmund has been talked off on a free. Can't say I know much of him. Coming through the ranks is Stephen Darby, who is very solid. Captain of Reserves - good on ball, cool at the back. Good prospect and a year out on loan next year would be good for him. Could make it.

LB - Riise can go. End off. Insua is a real prospect and imho is good enough to make the step up. Hope he starts next two games. With Aurelio to stay as cover and Arbeloa as back up, no buys here.

CB - Don't need two much here. Skrtel, Carra and Agger (when fit) are a good trio with bug Sammi as cover next year. Prob could buy next summer. Hobbs, Antwin and Roque have spent part of year on loan but don't think they'll be ready. Antwin got good reports but another year on loan at a higher level would prob do more to tell the tale. The young guns aren't too bad and would be hopeful that San Jose, Huth or Ayala could make it. San Jose looks the best bet, good on ball and can read the game.

Left Wing - Babbel only one I would keep. Kewell can go. Would see Babbel as more central in longer term. Hopefully he has adapted more after a season but you never see lasting a full game. Replacements - Gareth Barry - would need a good left back in Evra, Clichy, Cole style behind him to provide width/pace. Barry and Babbel would probably do the job. Adam Hamill doen very well at Dunfermilne but hasn't been as effective at Southampton this year, only in patches. Not ready on that evidence. Another year on loan may make or break him. Leto won't make it, spain would be obvious place for him.

Centre Mid - Well stocked. Gerrard, Mash, Alonso, Lucas, Plessis for two positions. If Alonso leaves then Barry may fill his role. Lucas needs to get but stronger and quicker with the ball at feet. Perfer Gerard in this role. Plessis has the potential, was probably outshone in reserves by Jay Spearing - All action, Denis wise mould, good from dead ball. Year on loan would be good test for him. Cuthrie has done well at Bolton, good squad option in the Darren Fletcher mould if he'd be happy with it. Ryan Flynn doesn't have it, may well be released in summer.

Wide Right - I would prefer Pennant in this role with Kuyt back up front. Benayoun isn;t good enough, drifts away from wing too often. He's a poormans Garcia with the big game goals!! Paul Anderson has done well at Swansea who pay be looking to buy him. May be worth a year as a squad player to see if he can make it. I'd be happy to see Pennat/Benayoun leave if a quality RM was bought in - Bentley, Mancini (Roma) could fit bill.

Up Front - Torres can stay!!! Crouch and Vornin can go. I like Crouch but he's not to feature for Rafa, so cash in. Kuyt is a good squad player but wouldn;t be a first choice striker. Would love to see Villa, Berbatov or top quality striker come in. Rafe will prob look for someone to play the current Stevie role between midfeild and Torres - Aimar, Saviola. Nemeth looks good with the reserves, good finisher, gets others involved, pacy. El Zhar, Lindfield, Brouwer won't cut it. Simon is a big lad and good come through. Pacheco looks like a real player and could fill the role with Torres in a year or two.

In - Harper, Alves, Barry, Bentley, Aimar, Villa.
Out - Intadje, Riise, Finnan, Benayoun, Pennat, Crouch, Voronin, few younsters.


Thats probably too much to read for many but it will do me for the whole summer and will keep Norf happy regarding the season end merry go round.

[GalwayBayBoy]

I think Gerrard has played well under Rafa, maybe not as brilliant as he once was but maybe he's getting more attention than previously (chelsea had makelele all over him like a rash on wednesday). I actually think finding a right position for gerrard is one of Rafa's biggest problems

Gerrard has scored 22 goals this season. 23 two seasons ago also under Rafa. All Gerrard's best season's have been under Benitez.

[thewingedlady]

Agree with most of what you're saying there bingo, although I'd hang on to Crouchy, he must be the most underappreciated footballer going. I know Benitez doesnt see him as part of his main strategy but he annoys defences somethin awful and his goal record is pretty good for all the time he gets playing.Dissappointed he didn't get on against Chelsea.

As for transfers, seeing names like Degen crock up just sickens my hole. We've been doing this for ten odd years now, tapping into unknown players (i know he's on a free) and hoping that they turn out useful. Alright, you might unearth an odd jem (Hyypia for example) but for one Hyypia you've got a long list of Diomedes, Josemis and Le Tallecs who, lets call a spade a spade, were all pish. When oh when are we gonna be looking for the top players? It just feels like I'm gonna be sitting here in 12 months time asking the same questions because it happens every season.

[bingobus]

Feck me, Bernard Diomede, how the hell did we miss him during our list of worse ever Liverpool players    Add to the fact that he has a world cup medal as well. He was some waste.

Spot on re Degen. Not that spending big cash is a guarantee as well. Glad we missed Malouda.