Brexit.

[t_mac]

So it doesn't matter about Sinn Féin policy in the up coming election, why do they bother going round doors canvasing when everyone know they are abstaining and therefore they don't have to have any policies on social or economic matters.

[clarshack]

The whole tutoring thing is a scam imho with teachers or ex teachers creaming it on the side. Kids either have it or they don't.

At 11?

Well a smart 11 year old is likely to get the transfer test tutored or not. An 11 year old that isn't smart is going to struggle to get the transfer test even with being tutored. Even if they do manage to get it (having been tutored like fcuk), it's been mentioned here that they are soon found out in the first few weeks of grammar school, and where does that leave them?

[armaghniac]

Well a smart 11 year old is likely to get the transfer test tutored or not. An 11 year old that isn't smart is going to struggle to get the transfer test even with being tutored. Even if they do manage to get it (having been tutored like fcuk), it's been mentioned here that they are soon found out in the first few weeks of grammar school, and where does that leave them?

It leaves them needing more tutoring.

[clarshack]

Well a smart 11 year old is likely to get the transfer test tutored or not. An 11 year old that isn't smart is going to struggle to get the transfer test even with being tutored. Even if they do manage to get it (having been tutored like fcuk), it's been mentioned here that they are soon found out in the first few weeks of grammar school, and where does that leave them?

It leaves them needing more tutoring.

And therefore more cash for the tutor...

[t_mac]

The whole tutoring thing is a scam imho with teachers or ex teachers creaming it on the side. Kids either have it or they don't.

At 11?

Well a smart 11 year old is likely to get the transfer test tutored or not. An 11 year old that isn't smart is going to struggle to get the transfer test even with being tutored. Even if they do manage to get it (having been tutored like fcuk), it's been mentioned here that they are soon found out in the first few weeks of grammar school, and where does that leave them?

Folk paid into the grammar school I went to after failing the 11+ and ended up solicitors, engineers etc.  11+ is big pressure and kids can flunk it due to nerves or issues going on in family at the time.

[Rossfan]

So it doesn't matter about Sinn Féin policy in the up coming election, why do they bother going round doors canvasing when everyone know they are abstaining and therefore they don't have to have any policies on social or economic matters.

To make sure "we" vote to make sure "they" don't win??

[t_mac]

So it doesn't matter about Sinn Féin policy in the up coming election, why do they bother going round doors canvasing when everyone know they are abstaining and therefore they don't have to have any policies on social or economic matters.

To make sure "we" vote to make sure "they" don't win??

And we get no representation and they get handy money.

[thewobbler]

The point about paying for tuition isn't to cheat the system or to get your child into an environment that they're unfit for. It's to give them a chance to see if they can thrive in an academic environment, which has to be easier to adapt to if you're in it from day 1, rather than transferred in 3-5 years down the line.

Some kids will never be cut out for academia. Some will have to give literally everything they have to succeed at academia. But I would never deny/ complain about any parent wanting to give their kids that opportunity.

[marty34]

The 11+ was a shocker by Sinn Fein. The ultimate outcome seems to have been more exams, and more diverse exams, thereby creating a natural advantage for wealthier families who can afford to pay for additional tuition.

I don't get the thing about tuition - surely if they need tuition, would parents not see how ironic that is to get into a grammar school?

Also, when in a grammar school, would they not get found out quick enough ?

If you've got a 50:50 chance of something you really want, and the opportunity exists to make this a 60:40 in your favour, would you not take it?

That's what parents across NI now face. I'd imagine there's very few P6 teachers would ever outright recommend against private tuition too, if asked. It can only improve their children, even if they don't really need it.

——

For the first couple of years in post-primary school, I expect there would be negligible difference between being in a high streamed class in secondary school, and a randomly streamed class in grammar school.

What children will though get from a grammar school is a greater focus on academic results and professional pathways. The children are encouraged on this pathway and are surrounded by children who will follow it.

When a parent pays £500-£1,000 to help ensure their child at least gets that opportunity, it's an unusually justifiable expense. Johnny might still end up a bricklayer - and probably very happy doing so - but at least he got to find out for himself that an academic pathway wasn't for him.

I'd say pupils would get found out quick enough in first year at a grammar school.  By that I mean, the teachers would spot a pupil in the first few months.

That's why tuition is used to get pupils into a grammar school as they are tutored but what happens after they go to the grammar  school?

[t_mac]

The 11+ was a shocker by Sinn Fein. The ultimate outcome seems to have been more exams, and more diverse exams, thereby creating a natural advantage for wealthier families who can afford to pay for additional tuition.

I don't get the thing about tuition - surely if they need tuition, would parents not see how ironic that is to get into a grammar school?

Also, when in a grammar school, would they not get found out quick enough ?

If you've got a 50:50 chance of something you really want, and the opportunity exists to make this a 60:40 in your favour, would you not take it?

That's what parents across NI now face. I'd imagine there's very few P6 teachers would ever outright recommend against private tuition too, if asked. It can only improve their children, even if they don't really need it.

——

For the first couple of years in post-primary school, I expect there would be negligible difference between being in a high streamed class in secondary school, and a randomly streamed class in grammar school.

What children will though get from a grammar school is a greater focus on academic results and professional pathways. The children are encouraged on this pathway and are surrounded by children who will follow it.

When a parent pays £500-£1,000 to help ensure their child at least gets that opportunity, it's an unusually justifiable expense. Johnny might still end up a bricklayer - and probably very happy doing so - but at least he got to find out for himself that an academic pathway wasn't for him.

I'd say pupils would get found out quick enough in first year at a grammar school.  By that I mean, the teachers would spot a pupil in the first few months.

That's why tuition is used to get pupils into a grammar school as they are tutored but what happens after they go to the grammar  school?

So you think some child at 11 who receives tutoring and achieves a grade A in the 11+ wouldn't be fit for the school they went to, you wouldn't conclude there was a high level of intelligence there to begin with? 

[marty34]

The 11+ was a shocker by Sinn Fein. The ultimate outcome seems to have been more exams, and more diverse exams, thereby creating a natural advantage for wealthier families who can afford to pay for additional tuition.

I don't get the thing about tuition - surely if they need tuition, would parents not see how ironic that is to get into a grammar school?

Also, when in a grammar school, would they not get found out quick enough ?

If you've got a 50:50 chance of something you really want, and the opportunity exists to make this a 60:40 in your favour, would you not take it?

That's what parents across NI now face. I'd imagine there's very few P6 teachers would ever outright recommend against private tuition too, if asked. It can only improve their children, even if they don't really need it.

——

For the first couple of years in post-primary school, I expect there would be negligible difference between being in a high streamed class in secondary school, and a randomly streamed class in grammar school.

What children will though get from a grammar school is a greater focus on academic results and professional pathways. The children are encouraged on this pathway and are surrounded by children who will follow it.

When a parent pays £500-£1,000 to help ensure their child at least gets that opportunity, it's an unusually justifiable expense. Johnny might still end up a bricklayer - and probably very happy doing so - but at least he got to find out for himself that an academic pathway wasn't for him.

I'd say pupils would get found out quick enough in first year at a grammar school.  By that I mean, the teachers would spot a pupil in the first few months.

That's why tuition is used to get pupils into a grammar school as they are tutored but what happens after they go to the grammar  school?

So you think some child at 11 who receives tutoring and achieves a grade A in the 11+ wouldn't be fit for the school they went to, you wouldn't conclude there was a high level of intelligence there to begin with?

My point is why do they need tutoring to get into a grammar school? Isn't it ironic..don't you think?

What's the point of all the stress on parents and more importantly, the pupils themselves.  A lot to do with the parents I reckon - prestige for them.

No different in getting 3 A's at A level at a 'normal' school and a grammar school.  They can still access the same uni courses.

[t_mac]

The 11+ was a shocker by Sinn Fein. The ultimate outcome seems to have been more exams, and more diverse exams, thereby creating a natural advantage for wealthier families who can afford to pay for additional tuition.

I don't get the thing about tuition - surely if they need tuition, would parents not see how ironic that is to get into a grammar school?

Also, when in a grammar school, would they not get found out quick enough ?

If you've got a 50:50 chance of something you really want, and the opportunity exists to make this a 60:40 in your favour, would you not take it?

That's what parents across NI now face. I'd imagine there's very few P6 teachers would ever outright recommend against private tuition too, if asked. It can only improve their children, even if they don't really need it.

——

For the first couple of years in post-primary school, I expect there would be negligible difference between being in a high streamed class in secondary school, and a randomly streamed class in grammar school.

What children will though get from a grammar school is a greater focus on academic results and professional pathways. The children are encouraged on this pathway and are surrounded by children who will follow it.

When a parent pays £500-£1,000 to help ensure their child at least gets that opportunity, it's an unusually justifiable expense. Johnny might still end up a bricklayer - and probably very happy doing so - but at least he got to find out for himself that an academic pathway wasn't for him.

I'd say pupils would get found out quick enough in first year at a grammar school.  By that I mean, the teachers would spot a pupil in the first few months.

That's why tuition is used to get pupils into a grammar school as they are tutored but what happens after they go to the grammar  school?

So you think some child at 11 who receives tutoring and achieves a grade A in the 11+ wouldn't be fit for the school they went to, you wouldn't conclude there was a high level of intelligence there to begin with?

My point is why do they need tutoring to get into a grammar school? Isn't it ironic..don't you think?

What's the point of all the stress on parents and more importantly, the pupils themselves.  A lot to do with the parents I reckon - prestige for them.

No different in getting 3 A's at A level at a 'normal' school and a grammar school.  They can still access the same uni courses.

Sorry I think you miss the point of getting into a school where the culture is one to learn, develop and better oneself.  The point is their ability to get three A's or whatever they are capable off in a non streamed secondary school, where a vast majority of pupils don't want to learn and drag the rest with them, is somewhat impeded.

[marty34]

The 11+ was a shocker by Sinn Fein. The ultimate outcome seems to have been more exams, and more diverse exams, thereby creating a natural advantage for wealthier families who can afford to pay for additional tuition.

I don't get the thing about tuition - surely if they need tuition, would parents not see how ironic that is to get into a grammar school?

Also, when in a grammar school, would they not get found out quick enough ?

If you've got a 50:50 chance of something you really want, and the opportunity exists to make this a 60:40 in your favour, would you not take it?

That's what parents across NI now face. I'd imagine there's very few P6 teachers would ever outright recommend against private tuition too, if asked. It can only improve their children, even if they don't really need it.

——

For the first couple of years in post-primary school, I expect there would be negligible difference between being in a high streamed class in secondary school, and a randomly streamed class in grammar school.

What children will though get from a grammar school is a greater focus on academic results and professional pathways. The children are encouraged on this pathway and are surrounded by children who will follow it.

When a parent pays £500-£1,000 to help ensure their child at least gets that opportunity, it's an unusually justifiable expense. Johnny might still end up a bricklayer - and probably very happy doing so - but at least he got to find out for himself that an academic pathway wasn't for him.

I'd say pupils would get found out quick enough in first year at a grammar school.  By that I mean, the teachers would spot a pupil in the first few months.

That's why tuition is used to get pupils into a grammar school as they are tutored but what happens after they go to the grammar  school?

So you think some child at 11 who receives tutoring and achieves a grade A in the 11+ wouldn't be fit for the school they went to, you wouldn't conclude there was a high level of intelligence there to begin with?

My point is why do they need tutoring to get into a grammar school? Isn't it ironic..don't you think?

What's the point of all the stress on parents and more importantly, the pupils themselves.  A lot to do with the parents I reckon - prestige for them.

No different in getting 3 A's at A level at a 'normal' school and a grammar school.  They can still access the same uni courses.

Sorry I think you miss the point of getting into a school where the culture is one to learn, develop and better oneself.  The point is their ability to get three A's or whatever they are capable off in a non streamed secondary school, where a vast majority of pupils don't want to learn and drag the rest with them, is somewhat impeded.

Bit elitist there - grammar schools are no better or worse than other schools in my opinion apart from the point that they're results based - in them you're a number, a stat for the bosses trying to get to No. 1 in the league tables!!!

Most important thing for me, especially going forward is the mental welfare of each pupil.  Are they happy in their school setting ?  Are they sociable etc. etc.  It's not all about the results.

[marty34]

The 11+ was a shocker by Sinn Fein. The ultimate outcome seems to have been more exams, and more diverse exams, thereby creating a natural advantage for wealthier families who can afford to pay for additional tuition.

I don't get the thing about tuition - surely if they need tuition, would parents not see how ironic that is to get into a grammar school?

Also, when in a grammar school, would they not get found out quick enough ?

If you've got a 50:50 chance of something you really want, and the opportunity exists to make this a 60:40 in your favour, would you not take it?

That's what parents across NI now face. I'd imagine there's very few P6 teachers would ever outright recommend against private tuition too, if asked. It can only improve their children, even if they don't really need it.

——

For the first couple of years in post-primary school, I expect there would be negligible difference between being in a high streamed class in secondary school, and a randomly streamed class in grammar school.

What children will though get from a grammar school is a greater focus on academic results and professional pathways. The children are encouraged on this pathway and are surrounded by children who will follow it.

When a parent pays £500-£1,000 to help ensure their child at least gets that opportunity, it's an unusually justifiable expense. Johnny might still end up a bricklayer - and probably very happy doing so - but at least he got to find out for himself that an academic pathway wasn't for him.

I'd say pupils would get found out quick enough in first year at a grammar school.  By that I mean, the teachers would spot a pupil in the first few months.

That's why tuition is used to get pupils into a grammar school as they are tutored but what happens after they go to the grammar  school?

So you think some child at 11 who receives tutoring and achieves a grade A in the 11+ wouldn't be fit for the school they went to, you wouldn't conclude there was a high level of intelligence there to begin with?

My point is why do they need tutoring to get into a grammar school? Isn't it ironic..don't you think?

What's the point of all the stress on parents and more importantly, the pupils themselves.  A lot to do with the parents I reckon - prestige for them.

No different in getting 3 A's at A level at a 'normal' school and a grammar school.  They can still access the same uni courses.

Sorry I think you miss the point of getting into a school where the culture is one to learn, develop and better oneself.  The point is their ability to get three A's or whatever they are capable off in a non streamed secondary school, where a vast majority of pupils don't want to learn and drag the rest with them, is somewhat impeded.

The vast majority of pupils in a non-grammar don't want to learn? Where do you hear this stuff?

Sounds a bit snobbish to me - must have went to a grammar school maybe?

[GJL]

The point about paying for tuition isn't to cheat the system or to get your child into an environment that they're unfit for. It's to give them a chance to see if they can thrive in an academic environment, which has to be easier to adapt to if you're in it from day 1, rather than transferred in 3-5 years down the line.

Some kids will never be cut out for academia. Some will have to give literally everything they have to succeed at academia. But I would never deny/ complain about any parent wanting to give their kids that opportunity.

There is also a large difference in the quality of P6/P7 teachers. Some kids may be lucky enough to have great teachers who have them well prepared for transfer tests where as others may not be so lucky and have teachers who put very little preparation into this. It is not a level playing field.