Joe Brolly

[seafoid]

Joe is usually right and tells the truth which really does people's heads in because they can't handle the truth... like that Jack Nicholson movie.

Tyrone is an ideology. Tyrone drunk or sober.

[thewobbler]

garvaghy may be  built along a main road but it is 700ft above sea level on a mountain. serious windy place. bit of a vanity project with no stands to even accomodate a decent crowd for a game. county board still owe 1.2 million stg for the loan on it. any wonder they cant spend money on county teams or others grounds. club scene is in rude health in tyrone and we regularly have more people attending club championship games than county home league games. without the club scene they would have nothing.

I honestly don't see how it can be described as a vanity project. Every county in Ireland either has a centre of excellence, or is desperately wanting for one.

I'm going to take a guess that the potential for a spectator stand was discussed at length during its planning, but the vast cost of the project meant priorities had to be put in place, and I'd also guess that the mission statement for the project was vested in developing players, not providing a venue for club matches.... hence the stand being relegated.

By the way I'm not trumpeting the County Board for the sake of it. But holding Garvaghey up as a failure because it's not doing something it was never meant to do, is all wrong.

[AZOffaly]

Would a 'stand' be seen as an inherent part of a centre of excellence? The primary reason for these centres is for participation, not observation. I don't think they've been built to provide extra grounds for games. I don't think there's anything in Hawkfield in Kildare, there's nothing in Currrans, or Farranfore in Kerry. Offaly's latest Faithful Fields in Kilcormac doesn't have anything like that, and Dr. Morris Park in Thurles has nothing.

[Owen Brannigan]

Any link guys?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/columnists/joe-brolly/joe-brolly-turning-club-game-into-an-afterthought-36184759.html

[southtyronegael]

im not saying garvaghey is a failure but 7.6 million is alot of money which could have been spent gettin a few other grounds up to scratch for big games. omagh is the only floodlit ground in tyrone that can hold county/club championship games and it is constantly liable to flooding. weve even had to start moving games to armagh because we have nowhere suitable.

[Walter Cronc]

3k capacity stand in Owenbeg!

[Owen Brannigan]

garvaghy may be  built along a main road but it is 700ft above sea level on a mountain. serious windy place. bit of a vanity project with no stands to even accomodate a decent crowd for a game. county board still owe 1.2 million stg for the loan on it. any wonder they cant spend money on county teams or others grounds. club scene is in rude health in tyrone and we regularly have more people attending club championship games than county home league games. without the club scene they would have nothing.

I honestly don't see how it can be described as a vanity project. Every county in Ireland either has a centre of excellence, or is desperately wanting for one.

I'm going to take a guess that the potential for a spectator stand was discussed at length during its planning, but the vast cost of the project meant priorities had to be put in place, and I'd also guess that the mission statement for the project was vested in developing players, not providing a venue for club matches.... hence the stand being relegated.

By the way I'm not trumpeting the County Board for the sake of it. But holding Garvaghey up as a failure because it's not doing something it was never meant to do, is all wrong.

You miss a basic point, it is almost 700ft above sea level.  Local schools were asked by the county board and Club Tyrone to play their games at it but other schools refuse to accept it as a venue because of the almost perpetual wind at the site.  They prefer to play anywhere else regardless of underfoot conditions.  If you visit Garvaghey note that it is at the same level as the many adjacent wind farms, wonder why they are located at this altitude.  So location was the first issue, why was land chosen at this level to build a multi million pound centre? However, Fermanagh also have a site for their county players so wind blasted that the grass grows at an angle. 

The drainage issue in Omagh should be no surprise to anyone.  The area has the third/fourth highest rainfall for any town in Ireland.  The ground is unplayable for considerable periods of the year and it is the ground with the lights, the fancy media box and large stand.  It's drainage system is inadequate and it sits on the top of a hill.  Compare it to the Athletic Grounds, Celtic Park and Páirc Esler for playing surfaces and their availability. 

Brolly is correct in so many aspects of this week's article that to nitpick about not getting money from US  or seeing it purely as an attack on Tyrone would seems to be grasping at straws. Surprised he didn't raise the issue of forcing families to choose between an AI final for their female athletes and county championship games for their male athletes.

His argument against academies/development squads can be laid at the door of any county.  It is an example of elitism driven by the county game to feed its needs and not for the benefit of clubs.  There is no example to show that academies/development squads actually result in success at county level.

Is Brolly wrong about the Academy demands on school children?

[thewobbler]

Owen if we're getting into missing the point, then did you not just miss it too?

—

1. Development centres are not spectator grounds.

2. The vast, vast majority of funding and sponsorship raised for Garvaghey was for the development of Tyrone County Teams. It's trite and ungracious to suggest that it should have been siphoned off for another purpose, even if seems like a related purpose.

3. The development of Garvaghey is one of the major reasons why the club and county games continue (just about) to sit by side. Without it, there would be a demand on Tyrone clubs to share their facilities with county u13-adult for 10 months a year.

4. Which is why Down fork out a large 5 figure sum every year hiring council and school facilities for our county teams, and why Armagh's minor management tear their hair out every year when no club will host their Ulster League fixtures

5. I know that in theory Tyrone GAA could have purchased land closer to sea level and then spent the necessary adding drainage to make it year round playable. But the reality is that there would have been a trade off involved; either a less central location, a smaller plot, or a bigger cost. Which of those would you have been happy with?

[Walter Cronc]

Owen if we're getting into missing the point, then did you not just miss it too?

—�

1. Development centres are not spectator grounds.

2. The vast, vast majority of funding and sponsorship raised for Garvaghey was for the development of Tyrone County Teams. It's trite and ungracious to suggest that it should have been siphoned off for another purpose, even if seems like a related purpose.

3. The development of Garvaghey is one of the major reasons why the club and county games continue (just about) to sit by side. Without it, there would be a demand on Tyrone clubs to share their facilities with county u13-adult for 10 months a year.

4. Which is why Down fork out a large 5 figure sum every year hiring council and school facilities for our county teams, and why Armagh's minor management tear their hair out every year when no club will host their Ulster League fixtures

5. I know that in theory Tyrone GAA could have purchased land closer to sea level and then spent the necessary adding drainage to make it year round playable. But the reality is that there would have been a trade off involved; either a less central location, a smaller plot, or a bigger cost. Which of those would you have been happy with?

So who pays for the upkeep of Garvaghey if there is no spectator facilities. Are counties not obliged to have a 2nd county ground? Surely then Tyrone GAA will have to invest in any upgrade to Dungannon, which could have been limited by incorporating a 5-10k capacity whilst building Garvaghey.

[blewuporstuffed]

Owen if we're getting into missing the point, then did you not just miss it too?

—

1. Development centres are not spectator grounds.

Owenbeg seems to function well as both

2. The vast, vast majority of funding and sponsorship raised for Garvaghey was for the development of Tyrone County Teams. It's trite and ungracious to suggest that it should have been siphoned off for another purpose, even if seems like a related purpose.

the garvaghy centre was sold as somewhere that would benefit all Gaels within the county, it seems to have moved away from that a bit

3. The development of Garvaghey is one of the major reasons why the club and county games continue (just about) to sit by side. Without it, there would be a demand on Tyrone clubs to share their facilities with county u13-adult for 10 months a year.

Agreed, and it is serving that purpose well

4. Which is why Down fork out a large 5 figure sum every year hiring council and school facilities for our county teams, and why Armagh's minor management tear their hair out every year when no club will host their Ulster League fixtures

5. I know that in theory Tyrone GAA could have purchased land closer to sea level and then spent the necessary adding drainage to make it year round playable. But the reality is that there would have been a trade off involved; either a less central location, a smaller plot, or a bigger cost. Which of those would you have been happy with?

the issue with location is that for a good part of the year the pitches are unplayable (or at least practically unusable) due to either strong winds or snow.
a better, more sheltered location should have been selected.
However, we are were we are with that now.

You can certainly argue that the purpose of garvaghy was not to host club games, but my argument would be that it should have been, as that is one of the major needs within the county. Its certainly a more critical need than an expensive building shaped like a T

[Owenmoresider]

Would a 'stand' be seen as an inherent part of a centre of excellence? The primary reason for these centres is for participation, not observation. I don't think they've been built to provide extra grounds for games. I don't think there's anything in Hawkfield in Kildare, there's nothing in Currrans, or Farranfore in Kerry. Offaly's latest Faithful Fields in Kilcormac doesn't have anything like that, and Dr. Morris Park in Thurles has nothing.

Seems to be a lot of club games being played there so there must be a stand of some sort.

[AZOffaly]

There is one viewing stand, you're right.

http://kildangan.kildare.gaa.ie/news/hawkfielddevelopmentnearingcompletion

[Dinny Breen]

Would a 'stand' be seen as an inherent part of a centre of excellence? The primary reason for these centres is for participation, not observation. I don't think they've been built to provide extra grounds for games. I don't think there's anything in Hawkfield in Kildare, there's nothing in Currrans, or Farranfore in Kerry. Offaly's latest Faithful Fields in Kilcormac doesn't have anything like that, and Dr. Morris Park in Thurles has nothing.

Seems to be a lot of club games being played there so there must be a stand of some sort.

A small stand, maybe 100/150 seater. Kildare have all SFC games either in Hawkfield or Newbridge to control gate money.

[BennyCake]

If anyone read Colm O'Rourke's column on sunday he said the he one of alot of other people not happy with Gooch's testimonial dinner but Brolly was the only person who was willing to come out and say it to the Gooch. I think he's right as well.

What part of Joe's column was inaccurate on Sunday? Tyrone did have arrange for a SFC game to be played in Armagh and for all the money spent on the centre of excellence I don't remember seeing a stand for spectators

Priority was building the clubhouse in the shape of a giant T.

Yeah that was daft. Who's going to see that? Unless the Ardboe lads arrive at training by helicopter

Can't understand why there wasn't a stand built capable to hosting games. Perfect location for a lot of neutrals, and good roads.

[Donnellys Hollow]

Would a 'stand' be seen as an inherent part of a centre of excellence? The primary reason for these centres is for participation, not observation. I don't think they've been built to provide extra grounds for games. I don't think there's anything in Hawkfield in Kildare, there's nothing in Currrans, or Farranfore in Kerry. Offaly's latest Faithful Fields in Kilcormac doesn't have anything like that, and Dr. Morris Park in Thurles has nothing.

Seems to be a lot of club games being played there so there must be a stand of some sort.

A small stand, maybe 100/150 seater. Kildare have all SFC games either in Hawkfield or Newbridge to control gate money.

The "stand" in Hawkfield has 200 seats and 6 wheelchair spaces.