FAI...Spring friendlies for Interim Manager - Belgium/Swiss

Started by CĂșig huaire, November 19, 2009, 01:34:00 PM

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Esmarelda


lurganblue

Quote from: Esmarelda on November 14, 2017, 11:25:24 AM
Quote from: illdecide on November 14, 2017, 11:13:27 AM
Because their players are better than ours
Really, which ones, specifically?

As a villa fan i have watched a bit of Birkir Bjarnason. Absolute dog shit for us but seems to be a class act when playing for Iceland.

mouview

Quote from: Capt Pat on November 14, 2017, 12:24:49 AM
That is another nil all draw in the world cup qualifiers. I fancy tomorrow nights game will go the same way.

Italy won't be missed. Who did they have on their team? It is not like 94 when they had baggio and Zola in their squad. This time around all the hype is about Buffon retiring, not on the great players who will miss the world cup.

I'd normally agree, but they at least try to play football by passing it around and are technically much better than a lot of teams. They'd still bring more to the tournie than the Swedes, who parked the bus last night.

NAG1

Quote from: mouview on November 14, 2017, 11:37:59 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 14, 2017, 12:24:49 AM
That is another nil all draw in the world cup qualifiers. I fancy tomorrow nights game will go the same way.

Italy won't be missed. Who did they have on their team? It is not like 94 when they had baggio and Zola in their squad. This time around all the hype is about Buffon retiring, not on the great players who will miss the world cup.

I'd normally agree, but they at least try to play football by passing it around and are technically much better than a lot of teams. They'd still bring more to the tournie than the Swedes, who parked the bus last night.

The Italians were unopposed to lumping the ball long either. Not that they seemed to have any system in place last night, but the main effort seemed to be to get it wide and thump crosses in. That would be ok barring the fact the Darmian is one of the full backs and doesnt seem to have grasped the art of crossing the ball yet.

International football in the main is dross and if it wasnt for the drama factor in the big tournaments it would be mostly unwatchable.

seafoid

Quote from: illdecide on November 14, 2017, 11:13:27 AM
Because their players are better than ours
They play better as a team. They could be compared  to Mullinalaghta. Half parish champions of Longford
Martin O Neill is managing the equivalent of Laois.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Syferus

Quote from: mouview on November 14, 2017, 11:37:59 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 14, 2017, 12:24:49 AM
That is another nil all draw in the world cup qualifiers. I fancy tomorrow nights game will go the same way.

Italy won't be missed. Who did they have on their team? It is not like 94 when they had baggio and Zola in their squad. This time around all the hype is about Buffon retiring, not on the great players who will miss the world cup.

I'd normally agree, but they at least try to play football by passing it around and are technically much better than a lot of teams. They'd still bring more to the tournie than the Swedes, who parked the bus last night.

I'd argue the Swedes will bring more to a WC than a poor Italian side. If they had much to bring to the table they'd have qualified.

lurganblue

Quote from: Syferus on November 14, 2017, 03:25:40 PM
Quote from: mouview on November 14, 2017, 11:37:59 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 14, 2017, 12:24:49 AM
That is another nil all draw in the world cup qualifiers. I fancy tomorrow nights game will go the same way.

Italy won't be missed. Who did they have on their team? It is not like 94 when they had baggio and Zola in their squad. This time around all the hype is about Buffon retiring, not on the great players who will miss the world cup.

I'd normally agree, but they at least try to play football by passing it around and are technically much better than a lot of teams. They'd still bring more to the tournie than the Swedes, who parked the bus last night.

I'd argue the Swedes will bring more to a WC than a poor Italian side. If they had much to bring to the table they'd have qualified.

They'll also bring their blonde's in the crowd. Camera men will be happy

Jim_Murphy_74

Quote from: Syferus on November 14, 2017, 03:25:40 PM
I'd argue the Swedes will bring more to a WC than a poor Italian side. If they had much to bring to the table they'd have qualified.

The question is will they bring Zlatan?   

I have a Swedish colleague here and he said the debate has already started.   Zlatan likely to return to play early in the New Year but a lot of Swedish fans are arguing that the team as a collective have played better without him.  Coach won't entertain talk about it as Zlatan formally retired at Euros.

/Jim.

Main Street

Quote from: Esmarelda on November 14, 2017, 10:19:06 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 12, 2017, 08:11:48 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 12, 2017, 03:44:01 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 12, 2017, 03:39:54 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 12, 2017, 03:38:37 PM
Because they're a mediocre bunch of footballers who have been coached into playing a system that has no room for continuity, flair or intuition. Which means that when they go a goal down va a better side, they simply don't have the belief or experience to make a game of it.

The World Cup will bea horror show if we get there
I think you're intentionally avoiding my question. What's the difference between Ireland and Iceland with regards to progressing at the world cup? My point is that we can be coached to achieve better than you're suggesting.

Jesus I'm not avoiding the point.

Iceland are a limited side who've worked out if they counter attack with intent, they can spoil and beat better teams.

Ireland have absolutely no game plan / tactics for counter attacking. They just boot the ball away. It's kot possession football, it's not territory football, it's shot football.
From what I've seen, Iceland are anything but a limited team, they have deservedly topped their qual group, have beaten Turkey, Croatia and Ukraine at home and hammered Turkey away in a crunch group decider. That's not the stuff of a limited team, that's the stuff of an excellent team who have emerged from limited circumstances.  Iceland play as a team of players who know each other inside out, they play (mostly)  a sophisticated flexible  442, which can only be achieved with every player in a disciplined manner understanding their role and their fellow players. That's football intelligence in action.
I'd share most people's turn off with Ireland's utter inability to posses the ball.
However, for these play offs it's 100% about the result and O'Neill  succeeded in neutralising  Denmark to the extent of them only having 3  or so shots on goal. The cliche applies, it's only half time.
I've just looked at the clubs that Iceland's squad play for, as, strangely, it seems to be the main reason that many posters use to justify Ireland's inability to play good football, or to achieve.

Here are the clubs of their most capped players: Randers, Aberdeen, Rubin Kazan, Lokeren, Burnley, Aston Villa, Everton, Cardiff City.

If Ireland shouldn't be expected to win their group and if "we don't have the players" to play decent football because our players don't play for top clubs, then how do Iceland buck this trend?
From your list of clubs you leave out Finnbogasson of Augsburg in the  Bundesliga, Hallfridsonn of Udinese  in Serie A, Kolbeinnsson is injured at Nantes.
Iceland have players playing regularly in the premier division of the vast majority of west European leagues, Israel and Russia. The players have been coached at club level since the age of 5 by licensed coaches in their home land. Usually they finish their A level education before moving abroad and have already had experience playing at senior level. Irish LOI  football clubs are decades behind the Iceland structure.

The question is more how can Iceland be on a par and even better than the other Scandinavian countries who have a similar sporting culture, with a longer established, better financed and more resourceful infrastructure. Perhaps one difference is that Iceland has the island mentality, they have adapted over generations to a harsher environment/conditions and just get on with life, and now they have learned to play football.





Esmarelda

Quote from: Main Street on November 14, 2017, 04:17:54 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 14, 2017, 10:19:06 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 12, 2017, 08:11:48 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 12, 2017, 03:44:01 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 12, 2017, 03:39:54 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 12, 2017, 03:38:37 PM
Because they're a mediocre bunch of footballers who have been coached into playing a system that has no room for continuity, flair or intuition. Which means that when they go a goal down va a better side, they simply don't have the belief or experience to make a game of it.

The World Cup will bea horror show if we get there
I think you're intentionally avoiding my question. What's the difference between Ireland and Iceland with regards to progressing at the world cup? My point is that we can be coached to achieve better than you're suggesting.

Jesus I'm not avoiding the point.

Iceland are a limited side who've worked out if they counter attack with intent, they can spoil and beat better teams.

Ireland have absolutely no game plan / tactics for counter attacking. They just boot the ball away. It's kot possession football, it's not territory football, it's shot football.
From what I've seen, Iceland are anything but a limited team, they have deservedly topped their qual group, have beaten Turkey, Croatia and Ukraine at home and hammered Turkey away in a crunch group decider. That's not the stuff of a limited team, that's the stuff of an excellent team who have emerged from limited circumstances.  Iceland play as a team of players who know each other inside out, they play (mostly)  a sophisticated flexible  442, which can only be achieved with every player in a disciplined manner understanding their role and their fellow players. That's football intelligence in action.
I'd share most people's turn off with Ireland's utter inability to posses the ball.
However, for these play offs it's 100% about the result and O'Neill  succeeded in neutralising  Denmark to the extent of them only having 3  or so shots on goal. The cliche applies, it's only half time.
I've just looked at the clubs that Iceland's squad play for, as, strangely, it seems to be the main reason that many posters use to justify Ireland's inability to play good football, or to achieve.

Here are the clubs of their most capped players: Randers, Aberdeen, Rubin Kazan, Lokeren, Burnley, Aston Villa, Everton, Cardiff City.

If Ireland shouldn't be expected to win their group and if "we don't have the players" to play decent football because our players don't play for top clubs, then how do Iceland buck this trend?
From your list of clubs you leave out Finnbogasson of Augsburg in the  Bundesliga, Hallfridsonn of Udinese  in Serie A, Kolbeinnsson is injured at Nantes.
Iceland have players playing regularly in the premier division of the vast majority of west European leagues, Israel and Russia. The players have been coached at club level since the age of 5 by licensed coaches in their home land. Usually they finish their A level education before moving abroad and have already had experience playing at senior level. Irish LOI  football clubs are decades behind the Iceland structure.

The question is more how can Iceland be on a par and even better than the other Scandinavian countries who have a similar sporting culture, with a longer established, better financed and more resourceful infrastructure. Perhaps one difference is that Iceland has the island mentality, they have adapted over generations to a harsher environment/conditions and just get on with life, and now they have learned to play football.
Well I picked out the players that had over 50 caps so it wasn't intentional. . I don't see the relevance of them playing top level football in countries such as Denmark, Israel or Scotland. They're no better than the Championship in England in my opinion where most of our players play. I was going to say you might have a point about the coaching but  ultimately their players still play at a similar level to ours. And our players generally don't play hoofball with their clubs.

Also, Iceland are good now with limited players but historically they haven't. Have they just got a better than usual bunch?

Billys Boots

I think the difference in Iceland is the coaching - you are not allowed coach U10s in Iceland unless you have UEFA 'B' accreditation (if you had UEFA 'B' in Ireland you would have been coaching senior squads in the Leinster Senior League or equivalent).  The new FAI player development pathway (PDP) programme, introduced by Ruud Dokter seeks to change all this - recent results for our underage international squads have already shown a benefit from this programme, so I think the future is brighter than it was. 
My hands are stained with thistle milk ...

AZOffaly

Quote from: Billys Boots on November 14, 2017, 04:35:21 PM
I think the difference in Iceland is the coaching - you are not allowed coach U10s in Iceland unless you have UEFA 'B' accreditation (if you had UEFA 'B' in Ireland you would have been coaching senior squads in the Leinster Senior League or equivalent).  The new FAI player development pathway (PDP) programme, introduced by Ruud Dokter seeks to change all this - recent results for our underage international squads have already shown a benefit from this programme, so I think the future is brighter than it was.

But we had great underage results in the past with the likes of Brian Kerr. Is the coaching in the clubs aligned to this PDP?

Esmarelda

Quote from: Billys Boots on November 14, 2017, 04:35:21 PM
I think the difference in Iceland is the coaching - you are not allowed coach U10s in Iceland unless you have UEFA 'B' accreditation (if you had UEFA 'B' in Ireland you would have been coaching senior squads in the Leinster Senior League or equivalent).  The new FAI player development pathway (PDP) programme, introduced by Ruud Dokter seeks to change all this - recent results for our underage international squads have already shown a benefit from this programme, so I think the future is brighter than it was.
Do you think O'Neill would change his approach if a batch of skilled players came through?

rrhf

Surely the next big thing in soccer will be the nationalisation of all players within the countries their club is injust like rugby. How good would that be for England.

Avondhu star

Quote from: lurganblue on November 14, 2017, 03:28:20 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 14, 2017, 03:25:40 PM
Quote from: mouview on November 14, 2017, 11:37:59 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 14, 2017, 12:24:49 AM
That is another nil all draw in the world cup qualifiers. I fancy tomorrow nights game will go the same way.

Italy won't be missed. Who did they have on their team? It is not like 94 when they had baggio and Zola in their squad. This time around all the hype is about Buffon retiring, not on the great players who will miss the world cup.

I'd normally agree, but they at least try to play football by passing it around and are technically much better than a lot of teams. They'd still bring more to the tournie than the Swedes, who parked the bus last night.

I'd argue the Swedes will bring more to a WC than a poor Italian side. If they had much to bring to the table they'd have qualified.

They'll also bring their blonde's in the crowd. Camera men will be happy

Hopefully the day starts off very sunny but then heavy rain before kickoff
Lee Harvey Oswald , your country needs you