Why? It's not as if any of the freestate parties will look after northern nationalists? If anything they will be more anxious than ever to obey their British puppetmasters.😠😠
Quote from: T Fearon on January 11, 2017, 09:15:07 PM
Why? It's not as if any of the freestate parties will look after northern nationalists? If anything they will be more anxious than ever to obey their British puppetmasters.😠😠
It's th only thing which will move the unionists into moving towards any kind of compromise.
But it is illogical and useless.
Enda has already got them agreeing to consider talking to each other.
He's a mighty man altogether :D
It's like dealing with 5 year olds God help us :-\
Quote from: T Fearon on January 11, 2017, 09:15:07 PM
Why? It's not as if any of the freestate parties will look after northern nationalists? If anything they will be more anxious than ever to obey their British puppetmasters.😠😠
Ain't gonna happen. It's not in the terms of the Good Friday Agreement so I don't know why this keeps coming up.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 11, 2017, 09:41:24 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 11, 2017, 09:15:07 PM
Why? It's not as if any of the freestate parties will look after northern nationalists? If anything they will be more anxious than ever to obey their British puppetmasters.😠😠
Ain't gonna happen. It's not in the terms of the Good Friday Agreement so I don't know why this keeps coming up.
Brexit requires a whole new agreement, if only to regulate things previously done at EU level. If there is not to be chaos then NI must remain in the single market, and some additional structures with the 26 counties would be needed for that.
Quote from: armaghniac on January 11, 2017, 09:48:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 11, 2017, 09:41:24 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 11, 2017, 09:15:07 PM
Why? It's not as if any of the freestate parties will look after northern nationalists? If anything they will be more anxious than ever to obey their British puppetmasters.😠😠
Ain't gonna happen. It's not in the terms of the Good Friday Agreement so I don't know why this keeps coming up.
Brexit requires a whole new agreement, if only to regulate things previously done at EU level. If there is not to be chaos then NI must remain in the single market, and some additional structures with the 26 counties would be needed for that.
Brexit will require a lot of creativity. It looks as though the Eurosceptics want a hard Exit. WTF.
And they do not care about OWC.
Tories will court DUP votes at Westminster,Irish Govt will look after its own interests by keeping the North at arms length (as it always does) and licking up to the British to protect its own economy as a result of Brexit. SF more interested in its own fortunes than the people,SDLP useless,whither now for Northern Nationalists?
Sure don't you want them to become "Northern Irish" so you should be delighted with the way things are going ;D
At least the SDLP are trying. We're like the lost tribe of Israel, and the Dublin talk to us via their Minister for Foreign Affairs, ffs.
The only organisation that has looked after us and treated us as equals is the GAA.
Quote from: Orior on January 11, 2017, 11:23:48 PM
At least the SDLP are trying. We're like the lost tribe of Israel, and the Dublin talk to us via their Minister for Foreign Affairs, ffs.
The only organisation that has looked after us and treated us as equals is the GAA.
Not if you are a club player, so a new organisation is needed to ensure that club players are given their rights and welfare.
Quote from: Orior on January 11, 2017, 11:23:48 PM
At least the SDLP are trying. We're like the lost tribe of Israel, and the Dublin talk to us via their Minister for Foreign Affairs, ffs.
The only organisation that has looked after us and treated us as equals is the GAA.
And the Irish League of Credit Unions, Comhaltas, Irish Amateur Boxing, IRFU, Catholic Church, Hockey, Cricket, Church of I ::)). .........
Quote from: T Fearon on January 11, 2017, 09:15:07 PM
Why? It's not as if any of the freestate parties will look after northern nationalists? If anything they will be more anxious than ever to obey their British puppetmasters.😠😠
The govt in the South lick everyone's arse. Spineless gobshites.
Quote from: Orior on January 11, 2017, 11:23:48 PM
At least the SDLP are trying. We're like the lost tribe of Israel, and the Dublin talk to us via their Minister for Foreign Affairs, ffs.
The only organisation that has looked after us and treated us as equals is the GAA.
What about Man Utd?
It's not just people in the north that FF and FG don't care about - they hate us guys in the south too!
For what it's worth though, I think the rise of SF's electoral power in the south worries them and would mean they'd definitely be more interested in the north than in the past. Obviously it would be a self serving interest but an interest nonetheless.
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 12, 2017, 09:36:39 AM
It's not just people in the north that FF and FG don't care about - they hate us guys in the south too!
For what it's worth though, I think the rise of SF's electoral power in the south worries them and would mean they'd definitely be more interested in the north than in the past. Obviously it would be a self serving interest but an interest nonetheless.
I'm not sure this is quite fair, of course politicians are self-serving, but it is also true that in the past people like Garret Fitzgerald and Bertie Aherne did good work in the North. Arguably they have been more willing to plan for the long term in NI matters than in regular 26 county politics, where expediency rules the day.
The weakness of Democratic systems - everything is based on themail next Election.
Quote from: armaghniac on January 11, 2017, 09:48:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 11, 2017, 09:41:24 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 11, 2017, 09:15:07 PM
Why? It's not as if any of the freestate parties will look after northern nationalists? If anything they will be more anxious than ever to obey their British puppetmasters.😠😠
Ain't gonna happen. It's not in the terms of the Good Friday Agreement so I don't know why this keeps coming up.
Brexit requires a whole new agreement, if only to regulate things previously done at EU level. If there is not to be chaos then NI must remain in the single market, and some additional structures with the 26 counties would be needed for that.
What? Brexit has invalidated the GFA? I don't know where you're getting that from.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 12, 2017, 05:12:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 11, 2017, 09:48:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 11, 2017, 09:41:24 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 11, 2017, 09:15:07 PM
Why? It's not as if any of the freestate parties will look after northern nationalists? If anything they will be more anxious than ever to obey their British puppetmasters.😠😠
Ain't gonna happen. It's not in the terms of the Good Friday Agreement so I don't know why this keeps coming up.
Brexit requires a whole new agreement, if only to regulate things previously done at EU level. If there is not to be chaos then NI must remain in the single market, and some additional structures with the 26 counties would be needed for that.
What? Brexit has invalidated the GFA? I don't know where you're getting that from.
If a whole load of obstacles to cross border trade and movement of people are introduced, against the wishes of people in both parts of Ireland, then that clearly undermines the spirit of the GFA whatever the legal eagles might read into it.
I don't know how you can make a post that somehow suggests that this does not overthrow the GFA, even from California. In practical terms nationalist parties cannot return to Stormont and support the PSNI etc if the government are harassing people in border areas.
But also on a practical basis, the GFA did not introduce cross border bodies or procedures on huge range of matters as there was no need, as the EU ensured these things. The minimum requirement is a new agreement that continues the level of coordination that we have at present and even if the British have some transitional arrangements then this new agreement is still needed as London will continue to chip away at these things and you should have to argue the case each time in relation to NI. They should usefully add some forms of practical coordination not there at present.
My understanding of all-Ireland cross-border bodies is that they were introduced via the GFA and not via any EU treaties. The North South Ministerial Council will continue to operate, Brexit or no Brexit.
The "spirit of the agreement" has often been used as a euphemism for what anti-agreement people wished were in the deal, but it has no bearing on what was actually in the deal.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 12, 2017, 09:50:37 PM
My understanding of all-Ireland cross-border bodies is that they were introduced via the GFA and not via any EU treaties. The North South Ministerial Council will continue to operate, Brexit or no Brexit.
They might continue to operate or they might not. Either way, a whole range of new bodies are needed to replace the EU.
QuoteThe "spirit of the agreement" has often been used as a euphemism for what anti-agreement people wished were in the deal, but it has no bearing on what was actually in the deal.
The preamble to the GFA states
Wishing to develop still further the unique relationship between their peoples and the close co-operation between their countries as friendly neighbours and as partners in the European Union".
The British government wish to eliminate the partnership in the European Union.
Quote from: armaghniac on January 12, 2017, 11:03:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 12, 2017, 09:50:37 PM
My understanding of all-Ireland cross-border bodies is that they were introduced via the GFA and not via any EU treaties. The North South Ministerial Council will continue to operate, Brexit or no Brexit.
They might continue to operate or they might not. Either way, a whole range of new bodies are needed to replace the EU.
QuoteThe "spirit of the agreement" has often been used as a euphemism for what anti-agreement people wished were in the deal, but it has no bearing on what was actually in the deal.
The preamble to the GFA states
Wishing to develop still further the unique relationship between their peoples and the close co-operation between their countries as friendly neighbours and as partners in the European Union".
The British government wish to eliminate the partnership in the European Union.
The British people instructed the British government to leave the EU by way of referendum . The government took instruction .
Quote from: ashman on January 13, 2017, 01:10:34 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 12, 2017, 11:03:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 12, 2017, 09:50:37 PM
My understanding of all-Ireland cross-border bodies is that they were introduced via the GFA and not via any EU treaties. The North South Ministerial Council will continue to operate, Brexit or no Brexit.
They might continue to operate or they might not. Either way, a whole range of new bodies are needed to replace the EU.
QuoteThe "spirit of the agreement" has often been used as a euphemism for what anti-agreement people wished were in the deal, but it has no bearing on what was actually in the deal.
The preamble to the GFA states
Wishing to develop still further the unique relationship between their peoples and the close co-operation between their countries as friendly neighbours and as partners in the European Union".
The British government wish to eliminate the partnership in the European Union.
The British people instructed the British government to leave the EU by way of referendum . The government took instruction .
Let them take Britain wherever they want, the people of NI did not want.
The "British People" can't instruct the British Government by Referendum.
It was consultative and the Government is going gung ho because of the outcome and to hell with 62% of Scots and 56% of the 6Cos voters.
Meanwhile the real World .........
Quote from: armaghniac on January 13, 2017, 01:23:09 AM
Quote from: ashman on January 13, 2017, 01:10:34 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 12, 2017, 11:03:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 12, 2017, 09:50:37 PM
My understanding of all-Ireland cross-border bodies is that they were introduced via the GFA and not via any EU treaties. The North South Ministerial Council will continue to operate, Brexit or no Brexit.
They might continue to operate or they might not. Either way, a whole range of new bodies are needed to replace the EU.
QuoteThe "spirit of the agreement" has often been used as a euphemism for what anti-agreement people wished were in the deal, but it has no bearing on what was actually in the deal.
The preamble to the GFA states
Wishing to develop still further the unique relationship between their peoples and the close co-operation between their countries as friendly neighbours and as partners in the European Union".
The British government wish to eliminate the partnership in the European Union.
The British people instructed the British government to leave the EU by way of referendum . The government took instruction .
Let them take Britain wherever they want, the people of NI did not want.
NI is part of the Union, therefore it leaves too.
Maybe the real problem here is belonging to a Union in the first place.
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2017, 09:49:41 AM
The "British People" can't instruct the British Government by Referendum.
It was consultative and the Government is going gung ho because of the outcome and to hell with 62% of Scots and 56% of the 6Cos voters.
Meanwhile the real World .........
The real world where (whether we like it or not) the UK is effectively one country? And the majority of people that voted wanted to leave. So the UK government is mandated to leave.
Pending the Apple case we should be discussing our potential exit. We cannot stay in the EU if we lose that case.
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 13, 2017, 10:06:50 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2017, 09:49:41 AM
The "British People" can't instruct the British Government by Referendum.
It was consultative and the Government is going gung ho because of the outcome and to hell with 62% of Scots and 56% of the 6Cos voters.
Meanwhile the real World .........
The real world where (whether we like it or not) the UK is effectively one country? And the majority of people that voted wanted to leave. So the UK government is mandated to leave.
Pending the Apple case we should be discussing our potential exit. We cannot stay in the EU if we lose that case.
Using Rossfan logic gay marriage should still be illegal in Roscommon and Leitrim!
Re the EU and Ireland, there are thankfully at least two things which our governments have stoutly defended the Irish position/policy on over the years in the context of the various treaties, whatever about other things that should have been defended also, namely our corporation tax rates and our military neutrality. Various stories in recent months suggest that the EU is still determined to pursue a common tax base and an EU military force and moves on both fronts may be coming before too long. If we're forced against our will and coerced into losing our exemptions on both despite having had guarantees about them in previous treaties then it really is time to call a halt on the 'ever closer union'.
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 13, 2017, 10:06:50 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2017, 09:49:41 AM
The "British People" can't instruct the British Government by Referendum.
It was consultative and the Government is going gung ho because of the outcome and to hell with 62% of Scots and 56% of the 6Cos voters.
Meanwhile the real World .........
The real world where (whether we like it or not) the UK is effectively one country? And the majority of people that voted wanted to leave. So the UK government is mandated to leave.
The UK can leave en bloc, but there is no requirement for the subsequent arrangements to be the same for GB and NI.
QuotePending the Apple case we should be discussing our potential exit. We cannot stay in the EU if we lose that case.
Why on earth would you say that, do you think that Apple would be here if we weren't in the EU? Bad enough people in England losing the plot without starting here.
Quote from: armaghniac on January 13, 2017, 10:42:15 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 13, 2017, 10:06:50 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2017, 09:49:41 AM
The "British People" can't instruct the British Government by Referendum.
It was consultative and the Government is going gung ho because of the outcome and to hell with 62% of Scots and 56% of the 6Cos voters.
Meanwhile the real World .........
The real world where (whether we like it or not) the UK is effectively one country? And the majority of people that voted wanted to leave. So the UK government is mandated to leave.
The UK can leave en bloc, but there is no requirement for the subsequent arrangements to be the same for GB and NI.
QuotePending the Apple case we should be discussing our potential exit. We cannot stay in the EU if we lose that case.
Why on earth would you say that, do you think that Apple would be here if we weren't in the EU? Bad enough people in England losing the plot without starting here.
If we lose the right to set our own tax rates/regime then there's little reason for any MNC's to locate in Ireland. None. We'd be better off to form an economic bloc with the UK where we can continue with our tax regime and build from there getting access to their commonwealth. Obviously the US should be a key area of focus but God knows how that would go with the clown taking over now but I guess that's the same for everyone. The EU will want to deal with Britain and vice versa so after all the sabre rattling and rubbish talk, cold hard business decisions will dictate that a sensible trade agreement will be reached.
The EU is a busted flush. Together with the euro it is just a mechanism to make more money for Germany in particular. It started off as a good idea but it has morphed into a monster than serves very few. The benefits to Ireland are overstated and mostly in the past. Time for a new order....we should be ahead of the curve rather than reacting all the time. The Brits will make Brexit work, I have no doubt about that.
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 13, 2017, 11:16:13 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 13, 2017, 10:42:15 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 13, 2017, 10:06:50 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2017, 09:49:41 AM
The "British People" can't instruct the British Government by Referendum.
It was consultative and the Government is going gung ho because of the outcome and to hell with 62% of Scots and 56% of the 6Cos voters.
Meanwhile the real World .........
The real world where (whether we like it or not) the UK is effectively one country? And the majority of people that voted wanted to leave. So the UK government is mandated to leave.
The UK can leave en bloc, but there is no requirement for the subsequent arrangements to be the same for GB and NI.
QuotePending the Apple case we should be discussing our potential exit. We cannot stay in the EU if we lose that case.
Why on earth would you say that, do you think that Apple would be here if we weren't in the EU? Bad enough people in England losing the plot without starting here.
If we lose the right to set our own tax rates/regime then there's little reason for any MNC's to locate in Ireland. None. We'd be better off to form an economic bloc with the UK where we can continue with our tax regime and build from there getting access to their commonwealth. Obviously the US should be a key area of focus but God knows how that would go with the clown taking over now but I guess that's the same for everyone. The EU will want to deal with Britain and vice versa so after all the sabre rattling and rubbish talk, cold hard business decisions will dictate that a sensible trade agreement will be reached.
The EU is a busted flush. Together with the euro it is just a mechanism to make more money for Germany in particular. It started off as a good idea but it has morphed into a monster than serves very few. The benefits to Ireland are overstated and mostly in the past. Time for a new order....we should be ahead of the curve rather than reacting all the time. The Brits will make Brexit work, I have no doubt about that.
The UK has a broken economy. It has a deficit of 6% of GDP
The EZ does not.
How can Brexit work with that deficit ?
The UK is a large country with many indigenous businesses. They have problems but not insurmountable ones. They control their own currency. They need to get a bit more self sufficient in the short term.
Bottom line though is that it's in no one's interest that there is a so called "hard" Brexit in terms of trade. People might want to "teach them a lesson" but when the reality is viewed they'll see it's not in the EU's interests. More goods enter the UK from the EU than vice versa. Common sense will prevail.
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 13, 2017, 01:17:54 PM
The UK is a large country with many indigenous businesses. They have problems but not insurmountable ones. They control their own currency. They need to get a bit more self sufficient in the short term.
Bottom line though is that it's in no one's interest that there is a so called "hard" Brexit in terms of trade. People might want to "teach them a lesson" but when the reality is viewed they'll see it's not in the EU's interests. More goods enter the UK from the EU than vice versa. Common sense will prevail.
People haven't been getting payrises above inflation for 10 years.
That is the main issue and Brexit will not address it. The UK needs a new economic system.
Published the other day Seafoid
@FraserNelson: So the Cameron/IDS reforms left Britain with employment higher and inequality lower than any point in the Blair/Brown years. Quite a legacy.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/householddisposableincomeandinequality/financialyearending2016
How many food banks had they in the Blair years?
Blair was a Tory anyway.
Quote from: Minder on January 13, 2017, 01:48:19 PM
Published the other day Seafoid
@FraserNelson: So the Cameron/IDS reforms left Britain with employment higher and inequality lower than any point in the Blair/Brown years. Quite a legacy.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/householddisposableincomeandinequality/financialyearending2016
Wages are still lower than in 2007
Lots of new jobs but many of them are crap
The lack of payrises is one reason behind the Brexit vote and the subsequent collapse of sterling with implications for Marmite and Mr Kipling which are exceedingly expensive now for British wallets
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/jan/13/low-paid-men-in-uk-four-times-more-likely-to-be-working-part-time-than-in-1990s