I think the game is dying in front of us - Manus Boyle

[Il Bomber Destro]

Gaelic football is being played to a superior level now than it has ever been.

The great matches we've seen this decade are the greatest matches of all time.

This won't fit the narrative, but it's a fact.

Its a opinion. My opinion is football played today especially in the latter stages of the championship is more low risk than ever before. Another opinion is Kerry,Tyrone who are two of the current top 4 teams collectively and individually wouldn't be a patch of 00s kerry,Tyrone teams and how good would those teams have been if they were exposed to the high range training and expertise that Dublin seniors are currently getting.

Because the game has changed, how well would guys like Dara O'Cinneide or Kevin Hughes cope with the pace of the modern day game? There are as good as footballers out there as there was 10 years ago but the athleticism and fitness has gone up a few levels since then and if you're not as genetically gifted in that manner it would be tough to make it in the modern game.

There were plenty of small, skillful slight forwards on the county scene 10-15 years ago - they're ten a penny with the big teams now and it is not counties getting more risk adverse, its counties adjusting to the reality of the modern game. I don't like the way the game is now compared to 10-15 years ago and it's nothing to do with the style of football. Back then you had sides like Laois and Westmeath winning provincials, Sligo, Fermanagh and Wexford going on extended runs. There was a belief most counties could go out there and compete with the top counties. It's now a case of 5-6 counties believing they can make an impact at the latter end of the season and everyone else just making up the numbers.

As a matter of preference I'd rather watach a 0-9 to 0-8 game where the opponents were really made work for their scores than a 4-18 to 2-14 game where teams just run down the centre at will and get easy scores, but maybe that's just me.

[Cunny Funt]

Gaelic football is being played to a superior level now than it has ever been.

The great matches we've seen this decade are the greatest matches of all time.

This won't fit the narrative, but it's a fact.

Its a opinion. My opinion is football played today especially in the latter stages of the championship is more low risk than ever before. Another opinion is Kerry,Tyrone who are two of the current top 4 teams collectively and individually wouldn't be a patch of 00s kerry,Tyrone teams and how good would those teams have been if they were exposed to the high range training and expertise that Dublin seniors are currently getting.

But the inverse of this is that the current Dublin and Mayo teams would absolutely destroy Dublin and Mayo from the noughties. And they both would have been in the top 4-5 teams in the noughties.

Not sure would Dublin have been regarded as top 4 or 5 team in 00s they received a few trimmings back then didn't reach any All Ireland final, could count on one hand how many semi finals they reached while the likes of Westmeath,Laois and Kildare won Leinster titles. They "arrived" as a new and improved Dublin outfit in 2011.

Mayo reached two All Ireland finals in the 00s but hammered in both. Outside of those 04,06 finals where they struggled past Laois,Fermanagh to get there it was a lot of early championship exits to likes of Westmeath,Derry,Fermanagh,Meath. Again debatable if Mayo were top 4-5 team back then. 

[Cunny Funt]

Gaelic football is being played to a superior level now than it has ever been.

The great matches we've seen this decade are the greatest matches of all time.

This won't fit the narrative, but it's a fact.

Its a opinion. My opinion is football played today especially in the latter stages of the championship is more low risk than ever before. Another opinion is Kerry,Tyrone who are two of the current top 4 teams collectively and individually wouldn't be a patch of 00s kerry,Tyrone teams and how good would those teams have been if they were exposed to the high range training and expertise that Dublin seniors are currently getting.

Because the game has changed, how well would guys like Dara O'Cinneide or Kevin Hughes cope with the pace of the modern day game? There are as good as footballers out there as there was 10 years ago but the athleticism and fitness has gone up a few levels since then and if you're not as genetically gifted in that manner it would be tough to make it in the modern game.

There were plenty of small, skillful slight forwards on the county scene 10-15 years ago - they're ten a penny with the big teams now and it is not counties getting more risk adverse, its counties adjusting to the reality of the modern game. I don't like the way the game is now compared to 10-15 years ago and it's nothing to do with the style of football. Back then you had sides like Laois and Westmeath winning provincials, Sligo, Fermanagh and Wexford going on extended runs. There was a belief most counties could go out there and compete with the top counties. It's now a case of 5-6 counties believing they can make an impact at the latter end of the season and everyone else just making up the numbers.

As a matter of preference I'd rather watach a 0-9 to 0-8 game where the opponents were really made work for their scores than a 4-18 to 2-14 game where teams just run down the centre at will and get easy scores, but maybe that's just me.

Are you suggesting the required for "modern football" is to have mostly 6 footers and pacy players? Mayo have pushed Dublin all the way the last few years but a good number of their players are under 6ft and wouldn't be regarded as overly pacy either.

On your final point i too would prefer to see a matches where sides has to work for their scores but i think many on here are not fans of the art of defending.

[rrhf]

Just imagine each man picked up and stuck with each man on the Dublin team. Call me naive but Surely the system is irrelevant if 14 good outfield players do their individual job well, mark Kilkenny connolly mc Menamen cooper mc Mahon and win the individual battles. The dubs system is a better system than tyrones as proven, but we didn't individually put a bloody hand on them.

[rosnarun]

Gaelic football is being played to a superior level now than it has ever been.

The great matches we've seen this decade are the greatest matches of all time.

This won't fit the narrative, but it's a fact. an opinion

+1

[magpie seanie]

Putting a defensive system in place is one thing. It's completely worthless if your players don't have the intelligence, athleticism and most of all, skill levels and decision making ability to be able to transition to attack quickly and efficiently. I think where Dublin and to be fair, Mayo, stand apart from the others at the moment is their skill levels and attacking play is miles ahead of other counties. Tyrone have a bit to go attack wise. Kerry are a good attacking side but defensively were not at the races this year.

You can be a good attacking team even with a strong defensive system.

[Zulu]

Just imagine each man picked up and stuck with each man on the Dublin team. Call me naive but Surely the system is irrelevant if 14 good outfield players do their individual job well, mark Kilkenny connolly mc Menamen cooper mc Mahon and win the individual battles. The dubs system is a better system than tyrones as proven, but we didn't individually put a bloody hand on them.

That's it in a nutshell. Every Chris Barrett turnover in the All Ireland final was roared to the rafters and are youtube clips you'd watch just as easily as great scores. He and Mayo showed you can defend when isolated and you don't need 101 bodies back to be defensively sound. The All Ireland final had 30+ scores but nobody could say it wasn't intense or that there was no defending. Once the penny drops with a few others we could have a great era of football. Blanket defending is fine for the likes of Carlow as they are just trying to survive, those wanting to win things should be going man for man and coaching their players to be able to do that. The thing is, a few teams could beat Mayo or Kerry in a shoot out and it's your only chance against Dublin so why not go for it? Trying to beat Dublin or Mayo in an arm wrestle is an almost certain loser.

[sid waddell]

Gaelic football is being played to a superior level now than it has ever been.

The great matches we've seen this decade are the greatest matches of all time.

This won't fit the narrative, but it's a fact.

Its a opinion. My opinion is football played today especially in the latter stages of the championship is more low risk than ever before. Another opinion is Kerry,Tyrone who are two of the current top 4 teams collectively and individually wouldn't be a patch of 00s kerry,Tyrone teams and how good would those teams have been if they were exposed to the high range training and expertise that Dublin seniors are currently getting.

What's "low risk" football?

Not kicking possession away for the sake of it?

Defences in this decade have been more organised and better than ever before, yet we're seeing higher average scores being posted now than ever before.

That's pretty clear proof of a higher standard.

[Lar Naparka]

Just imagine each man picked up and stuck with each man on the Dublin team. Call me naive but Surely the system is irrelevant if 14 good outfield players do their individual job well, mark Kilkenny connolly mc Menamen cooper mc Mahon and win the individual battles. The dubs system is a better system than tyrones as proven, but we didn't individually put a bloody hand on them.

That's it in a nutshell. Every Chris Barrett turnover in the All Ireland final were roared to the rafters and are youtube clips you'd watch just as easily as great scores. He and Mayo showed you can defend when isolated and you don't need 101 bodies back to be defensively sound. The All Ireland final had 30+ scores but nobody could say it wasn't intense or that there was no defending. Once the penny drops with a few others we could have a great era of football. Blanket defending is fine for the likes of Carlow as they are just trying to survive, those wanting to win things should be going man for man and coaching their players to be able to do that. The thing is, a few teams could beat Mayo or Kerry in a shoot out and it's your only chance against Dublin so why not go for it? Trying to beat Dublin or Mayo in an arm wrestle is an almost certain loser.

I'd love to be able to agree with you, but the omens suggest otherwise.
First and foremost, winning is everything. That's the ethos that pervades the sport today and that isn't going to change any time soon. Dublin and Mayo fans will cheerfully tell you that they'd be happy with a 0-1 t0 0-0 win after three replays and a double dose of extra time, as long as they won.
Dublin and Mayo are out in front because their players are incredibly determined and prepared to put their normal lives on hold in just about every conceivable way, in order to come out on top.
No other side in the land, Mayo included, can ever hope to match Dublin's resources so for the vast majority, there is no incentive to put in the time and effort needed to compete at the highest level.
What happens then is that teams who know full well that they won't be in the final shakeup will try to keep possession at all costs so as to prevent their opponents from scoring and depend on breakaways to to try and score themselves. If that means parking 10 or more men inside their half of the field  for most of the game, then that's what they will do.
Fans can't have it both ways; it's all right talking about open, attacking play when you have teams that are terrified of being walloped out of sight.
Tyrone (who else?) are a perfect example of this.
If Mickey had the likes of Mugsy and Peter Canavan, he'd be very happy to change Tyrone's style of play and that's for sure.
The reality is that very few teams can have realistic expectations of winning a provincial, never mind getting near Croke Park in any year. Keeping the margins they lose by down to respectable levels is the priority.

[mrhardyannual]

The biggest problem is that counties and clubs to a greater extent are paying a fortune to coaches/trainers/managers who can get teams fit etc but haven't an original thought when it comes to devising tactics, either attacking or defensive for their teams. I don't blame McGuinness for any of this. He devised a system suited to the team he had. It won't work in general.

[johnneycool]

Just imagine each man picked up and stuck with each man on the Dublin team. Call me naive but Surely the system is irrelevant if 14 good outfield players do their individual job well, mark Kilkenny connolly mc Menamen cooper mc Mahon and win the individual battles. The dubs system is a better system than tyrones as proven, but we didn't individually put a bloody hand on them.

That's it in a nutshell. Every Chris Barrett turnover in the All Ireland final was roared to the rafters and are youtube clips you'd watch just as easily as great scores. He and Mayo showed you can defend when isolated and you don't need 101 bodies back to be defensively sound. The All Ireland final had 30+ scores but nobody could say it wasn't intense or that there was no defending. Once the penny drops with a few others we could have a great era of football. Blanket defending is fine for the likes of Carlow as they are just trying to survive, those wanting to win things should be going man for man and coaching their players to be able to do that. The thing is, a few teams could beat Mayo or Kerry in a shoot out and it's your only chance against Dublin so why not go for it? Trying to beat Dublin or Mayo in an arm wrestle is an almost certain loser.

I'm not involved in football, but is the art of one on one defending not coached anymore as a skillset in its own right?

Are coaches so preoccupied with systems that one on one coaching of defending is a thing of the past?

[Syferus]

Just imagine each man picked up and stuck with each man on the Dublin team. Call me naive but Surely the system is irrelevant if 14 good outfield players do their individual job well, mark Kilkenny connolly mc Menamen cooper mc Mahon and win the individual battles. The dubs system is a better system than tyrones as proven, but we didn't individually put a bloody hand on them.

That's it in a nutshell. Every Chris Barrett turnover in the All Ireland final was roared to the rafters and are youtube clips you'd watch just as easily as great scores. He and Mayo showed you can defend when isolated and you don't need 101 bodies back to be defensively sound. The All Ireland final had 30+ scores but nobody could say it wasn't intense or that there was no defending. Once the penny drops with a few others we could have a great era of football. Blanket defending is fine for the likes of Carlow as they are just trying to survive, those wanting to win things should be going man for man and coaching their players to be able to do that. The thing is, a few teams could beat Mayo or Kerry in a shoot out and it's your only chance against Dublin so why not go for it? Trying to beat Dublin or Mayo in an arm wrestle is an almost certain loser.

I'm not involved in football, but is the art of one on one defending not coached anymore as a skillset in its own right?

Are coaches so preoccupied with systems that one on one coaching of defending is a thing of the past?

When has it ever been one-on-one? Once a player gets the ball the defence naturally drifts towards that area. Support will always be key to a good defence.

[johnneycool]

Just imagine each man picked up and stuck with each man on the Dublin team. Call me naive but Surely the system is irrelevant if 14 good outfield players do their individual job well, mark Kilkenny connolly mc Menamen cooper mc Mahon and win the individual battles. The dubs system is a better system than tyrones as proven, but we didn't individually put a bloody hand on them.

That's it in a nutshell. Every Chris Barrett turnover in the All Ireland final was roared to the rafters and are youtube clips you'd watch just as easily as great scores. He and Mayo showed you can defend when isolated and you don't need 101 bodies back to be defensively sound. The All Ireland final had 30+ scores but nobody could say it wasn't intense or that there was no defending. Once the penny drops with a few others we could have a great era of football. Blanket defending is fine for the likes of Carlow as they are just trying to survive, those wanting to win things should be going man for man and coaching their players to be able to do that. The thing is, a few teams could beat Mayo or Kerry in a shoot out and it's your only chance against Dublin so why not go for it? Trying to beat Dublin or Mayo in an arm wrestle is an almost certain loser.

I'm not involved in football, but is the art of one on one defending not coached anymore as a skillset in its own right?

Are coaches so preoccupied with systems that one on one coaching of defending is a thing of the past?

When has it ever been one-on-one? Once a player gets the ball the defence naturally drifts towards that area. Support will always be key to a good defence.

I'm talking about the likes of Tony Scullion who was able to hold his own one on one. There's no defenders out there like that now, well if there are we wouldn't know.

[lenny]

Just imagine each man picked up and stuck with each man on the Dublin team. Call me naive but Surely the system is irrelevant if 14 good outfield players do their individual job well, mark Kilkenny connolly mc Menamen cooper mc Mahon and win the individual battles. The dubs system is a better system than tyrones as proven, but we didn't individually put a bloody hand on them.

That's it in a nutshell. Every Chris Barrett turnover in the All Ireland final was roared to the rafters and are youtube clips you'd watch just as easily as great scores. He and Mayo showed you can defend when isolated and you don't need 101 bodies back to be defensively sound. The All Ireland final had 30+ scores but nobody could say it wasn't intense or that there was no defending. Once the penny drops with a few others we could have a great era of football. Blanket defending is fine for the likes of Carlow as they are just trying to survive, those wanting to win things should be going man for man and coaching their players to be able to do that. The thing is, a few teams could beat Mayo or Kerry in a shoot out and it's your only chance against Dublin so why not go for it? Trying to beat Dublin or Mayo in an arm wrestle is an almost certain loser.

I'm not involved in football, but is the art of one on one defending not coached anymore as a skillset in its own right?

Are coaches so preoccupied with systems that one on one coaching of defending is a thing of the past?

When has it ever been one-on-one? Once a player gets the ball the defence naturally drifts towards that area. Support will always be key to a good defence.

It was always one on one until harte brought in the horrible but effective idea of swarming round a man who had the ball. That is the main reason the game has become so bad to watch. Pat spillane took a lot of stick at the time but he was right - it was puke football and lots of other teams have copied it since. Harte even took it further the last couple of years with 15 players inside his own 45 metre line, with most of them inside of 35 yards from their own goals. Pathetic.

[blewuporstuffed]

Lads, I have said this before, it was the ever-changing of the rules to favour the forward that led us down this path.
Its got to a stage now where it is so so difficult (impossible) to defend against any decent forward 1v1 , so the automatic thing for managers to do is to come up with a system to cover for this.