Croke Park

[Hardy]

I think what bothers people is the handing out of public funds to private companies to fund their capital projects. Even ignoring the fact that many of these are tax-defaulting economic basket cases, what can be the justification for this? Funding capital projects even for employment-generating major multinational enterprises was abandoned years ago as an unproductive way of supporting industry.

While many may disagree, a case can be made that tax breaks and grants given to the racing/thoroughbred industry help sustain employment and promote a foreign revenue earning industry, helping it to maintain its status as a world leader in its field. Where is the  equivalent justification for putting taxpayers' money into serially-defaulting, abysmally-managed local private micro-businesses that rarely generate enough revenue to pay even their part-time employees and generate no full time employment at all?

The fact that this unaccountable largesse is routinely compared with supporting a community organisation, when no such comparison is valid, is another source of irritation. The GAA uses all of any funding it receives (which is proportionately much less than that given to capital projects for  the 'professional' sports) to the benefit of the community, rather than  squandering it on paying players and distributing any surplus among the shareholders of these private companies? How does this make sense as a use of taxpayers' money?

[Turfsmoke]

Hardy,

Well said.

Nothing much more needs to be said.

[dublinfella]

I think what bothers people is the handing out of public funds to private companies to fund their capital projects. Even ignoring the fact that many of these are tax-defaulting economic basket cases, what can be the justification for this? Funding capital projects even for employment-generating major multinational enterprises was abandoned years ago as an unproductive way of supporting industry.

While many may disagree, a case can be made that tax breaks and grants given to the racing/thoroughbred industry help sustain employment and promote a foreign revenue earning industry, helping it to maintain its status as a world leader in its field. Where is the  equivalent justification for putting taxpayers' money into serially-defaulting, abysmally-managed local private micro-businesses that rarely generate enough revenue to pay even their part-time employees and generate no full time employment at all?

The fact that this unaccountable largesse is routinely compared with supporting a community organisation, when no such comparison is valid, is another source of irritation. The GAA uses all of any funding it receives (which is proportionately much less than that given to capital projects for  the 'professional' sports) to the benefit of the community, rather than  squandering it on paying players and distributing any surplus among the shareholders of these private companies? How does this make sense as a use of taxpayers' money?

well put, and while i have no truck for the way EL clubs have run themselves, are you saying that capital grants should only be given to amateur games? that soccer, rugby, boxing, golf, athletics etc as sports where the elite can earn a living are any less worthy of the title of 'community organisaton'? thats a bit arrogant.

basically its one rule for the clubhouse in your club and another for the boxing club? if we accept public funding it stinks to high heaven to go into court with the explicit intention of blocking similar arrangements with our competors. its ingracious, arrogant and risks future funding for ourselves.

and for the record Shamrock Rovers is a members run club. its disengenoious to talk about shareholders surpluses in this context. they are run nearly identically to a gaa club these days. at least be accurate, as it seems to be part of lore on this site that they are getting a stadium built for free.

[realredhandfan]

So Dublinfella do you know many GAA clubs who choose bankruptcy to rip off their suppliers.  Nah its a common business ploy. 

[dubnut]

Dublinfella the least you could do is stop saying "we" when referring to the GAA in all this.
Its pretty obvious the "we" from your point of view is Rovers.
I see what you are doing though and it is clever, but not clever enough.

[Hardy]

... are you saying that capital grants should only be given to amateur games?

No. I'm saying that there's no justification at all for giving taxpayers' money to private businesses, even if they sail under the banner of 'sport', unless it's to promote and sustain employment and that, even then, capital grants would not be the way to do it. I'm also saying that there's a clear justification, in terms of social capital, for helping to fund not-for-profit organisations that exist solely to contribute positively to the community.

that soccer, rugby, boxing, golf, athletics etc as sports where the elite can earn a living are any less worthy of the title of 'community organisaton'? thats a bit arrogant. basically its one rule for the clubhouse in your club and another for the boxing club?

There's quite a mix there and they're not mutually equivalent. I can't see how it's arrogant to point out that a half-arsed, tax-defaulting company run by a few local gombeen-men calling itself a 'football club' is not a community organisation in any sense, while a boxing club or an amateur soccer club catering for youngsters from the local community clearly is.

So it's not one rule for the GAA club and one for the boxing club. I'm advocating one rule for amateur, community-oriented entities and an entirely different one for companies in the sports-entertainment business.

if we accept public funding it stinks to high heaven to go into court with the explicit intention of blocking similar arrangements with our competors. its ingracious, arrogant and risks future funding for ourselves.

If you're referring to the Tallaght case, I don't know enough about it to comment. My remarks are addressed to the general case.

and for the record Shamrock Rovers is a members run club. its disengenoious to talk about shareholders surpluses in this context. they are run nearly identically to a gaa club these days. at least be accurate, as it seems to be part of lore on this site that they are getting a stadium built for free.

Again, I don't know anything about Shamrock Rovers except that I understand in a previous incarnation they cashed in their valuable property and perfectly adequate stadium and pocketed the cash, in another incarnation they defaulted on their tax obligations (apologies if I'm wrong) and liquidated and now they surface again, with the same name, without the tax paid and they have their hands out for government money to fund a stadium for their own exclusive use. Now that IS a bit arrogant, not to mention brass-necked.

[lynchbhoy]

do or should organisations get funded depending on the amount of people that sport services -
So sports with a smaller playing membership will undoubtedly get a lesser stake of the cash.
Pro sports obv should be self funding to a certain extent and get a lesser stake of public funds, and then the participating peoples dictate the amount awarded.

If it is that easy for a 'group' to get funding, then I am gonna go off ans set up my own local ' kabbaddi' group, organise leagues and rake in a pile of cash - as all I need is a few squares of a car park in which to play the game.

easy money, a bit like the fai and shamrock rovers.

[realredhandfan]

They are obviously not even answerable to the Government never mind their community. 

[Rossfan]

[How much public cash went to Shamrock Rovers?

At the moment €2m in lotto funds, €2m from Rovers themselves and the SDCC want to put in €2m to finish it. Zero on the table from Thomas Davis.

[/quote]

For F*** sake will you ever shut up with your rubbish.
Shamrock Rovers put nothing into Tallaght -that;' why the Council took the lease back.
There was £1.5m in lotto money and when that ran out -owing a builder €3-400,000 - everything stopped.
My sources tell me it will now cost €11 million to build the Soccer only version of this stadium and Shams will still be putting NOTHING into it !!!

[dublinfella]

For F*** sake will you ever shut up with your rubbish.
Shamrock Rovers put nothing into Tallaght -that;' why the Council took the lease back.
There was £1.5m in lotto money and when that ran out -owing a builder €3-400,000 - everything stopped.
My sources tell me it will now cost €11 million to build the Soccer only version of this stadium and Shams will still be putting NOTHING into it !!!

your sources?

11m?

on a 6m project?

The Coucil took the lease back because Mulden, the guys who bought superquinn to close them, got involved and their intentions were less than sporting. There is a lot of bull floating in this issus, and your post is full if it.

[realredhandfan]

Dublinfella how dare you compare the management of Shamrock Rovers FC to the management of a Gaelic Club.  How dare you? Shame on you you know f**k all about the GAA.

[Rossfan]

your sources?   -- An official of SDCC

11m? - Estimate by SDCC official - wait till they go to tender -maybe 14m

on a 6m project? -  EH ?? in Ireland - you are joking

There is a lot of bull floating in this issus, and your post is full if it.  - you are the one consistent bull spouter on this item . - what ever your agenda is ?

[dublinfella]

your sources?   -- An official of SDCC

11m? - Estimate by SDCC official - wait till they go to tender -maybe 14m

on a 6m project? -  EH ?? in Ireland - you are joking

There is a lot of bull floating in this issus, and your post is full if it.  - you are the one consistent bull spouter on this item . - what ever your agenda is ?

there is no tender, the builders are already in place, the delay is due to thomas davis. i call bullshit.

Dublinfella how dare you compare the management of Shamrock Rovers FC to the management of a Gaelic Club.  How dare you? Shame on you you know f**k all about the GAA.

its pathetic when the best 'argument' people have is to try and claim that people with a different point of view arent 'true gaels' or in this case, a member. I bet i put more time and effort into my club than you yours. And you are substantitvley wrong on how Rovers today go about their business. Hence TD's blocking moves.

[realredhandfan]

i doubt it very much.  You are too busy firing snowballs for the FAI to help out.

[dublinfella]

i doubt it very much.  You are too busy firing snowballs for the FAI to help out.

Im the treasurer of my club, one of the largest in the land. I do not need to explain myself to you.

I have never defended the FAI, ever. Find me an example. But what TD are doing is a disgrace and as Sean Moran in todays Times says, it has profoundly damaged the GAA's relationship with the Department of Sport. If the GAA escalate this as they are threating to do when they lose next week, the FAI say they will return the favour next big project of ours that capital grants are involved in. Brilliant.

We have no right to use others facilities while holding rule 42 dear.