A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[T Fearon]

Apples.I remember in the 60s the Priest organising a football tournament,with lads from Edgarstown,Tunnel etc.Ballyoran and Churchill Park werent built at the time.The troubles drove everyone apart from the middle class into sectarian ghettoes where both sides lived apart in the same deprived conditions.

[T Fearon]

Also remember playing football at YMCA in Jervis Street,and annual football primary school tournaments in Brownstown with all schools including catholic involved.No problems whatsoever.

[armaghniac]

Also remember playing football at YMCA in Jervis Street,and annual football primary school tournament in Brownstown,with all schools including catholic involved.No problems whatsoever.

Aye, an no doubt the Protestant schools all came to the Gaalic schools tournaments.

[Applesisapples]

And I remember the Lambegs outside our chapel 4 miles from the Orange Hall with RUC/B Specials on hand for protection every night in July. I also remember my Dad's inability to find employment in firms because he was a catholic. I remember also workplaces adorned with union flegs and royal pictures, swings tied up on Sunday, generations in our parish forced into ghettos in the nearest town to manage the vote, I could go on. Halcyon Days Tony in the Orange State, I wish they were back...not.

[Na Glinntí Glasa]

My dad got a job many moons ago in gallaghers in ballymena. he told me he was over the moon to get into it as it was a great place to work and the long term benifit of being there would be worth it.

This was the mid 70's, and on his first day being shown the machine where he would be working his boss left him with the line "work hard and make your quota and at the end of the day remember your the token taig here, i was forced to put you in here. Some sort of equality bullshite we have to do to let your lot get jobs."

Same stories as others where the union flag was hung all over the place and bunting hung off his machine each twelfth. Pure sectarian hatred, nothing more.

[general_lee]

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/generation-emigration/living-in-england-has-given-me-new-confidence-in-my-irish-identity-1.2500911

[T Fearon]

I am not saying things were perfect,I've said before my mother practically lost her entire family due to emigration owing to sectarian discrimination,but I had a very good childhood,and my mum and dad worked in majority Protestant firms in Portadown and never once were subjected to sectarianism of any kind and made lifelong friends.

I don't think at any time Protestants and Catholics hated each other en masse,but living in the past,and nursing age old grievances,and hankering after the unattainable,full unity with peoples (that's UK and Southern Ireland) who neither understand nor want us,is not the way forward in my opinion.

[armaghniac]

I am not saying things were perfect,I've said before my mother practically lost her entire family due to emigration owing to sectarian discrimination,but I had a very good childhood,and my mum and dad worked in majority Protestant firms in Portadown and never once were subjected to sectarianism of any kind and made lifelong friends.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that all relationships are problematic.

I don't think at any time Protestants and Catholics hated each other en masse,but living in the past,and nursing age old grievances,and hankering after the unattainable,full unity with peoples (that's UK and Southern Ireland) who neither understand nor want us,is not the way forward in my opinion.

I think many people do not understand you, whatever about the generality. How about your description of those cultural differences between the people of Middletown and Glaslough, or Cullaville and Inniskeen?

[Rossfan]

The 6 Cos will never be a separate State.
It will always be an unwanted part of the UK or a quasi autonomous part of an All Ireland political entity.
As for a separate "Northern Irish culture".....
What the Hell does it consist of?
6,000 Orange parades, pissing on Catholic Churches, Willie Frazer, Jamie Bwyson?
I think that would exclude 750,000 people at least from this new Identity/culture.

[seafoid]

The 6 Cos will never be a separate State.
It will always be an unwanted part of the UK or a quasi autonomous part of an All Ireland political entity.
As for a separate "Northern Irish culture".....
What the Hell does it consist of?
6,000 Orange parades, pissing on Catholic Churches, Willie Frazer, Jamie Bwyson?
I think that would exclude 750,000 people at least from this new Identity/culture.

A very traumatised and Incoherent polity that pretends everything is fine. If NI was a person she'd be Blanche Dubois from a streetcar named desire.

[T Fearon]

Armagniac,I accept there is a close resemblance in culture between Middletown and Glasslough ,just as many towns and villages in Northern Italy are more German or Austrian in culture than Italian,but it means nothing in the overall scheme of things.

Reasons why there will not be a United Ireland are principally:

Freestate abandoned the North in the 1920s.

Freestate dispensed with Articles 2 and 3 in 1998.

All of nationalist Ireland accepts the British "right" to govern the North.

Minister in free state government admitted freestate couldn't afford the North.

North is categorised under Freestate's Foreign Affairs Dept (they therefore regard us as Irish as Syria)

In short,if unionists became nationalists tomorrow there still wouldn't be a United Ireland.

I take no pleasure in pointing out these unpalatable facts.However why hanker after something that simply is not going to come about

[Maguire01]

Freestate dispensed with Articles 2 and 3 in 1998.

The "Freestate" didn't exist in 1998.
Even if it did, it was the people of Ireland, north and south, who voted to drop Articles 2 and 3.

[armaghniac]

Armagniac,I accept there is a close resemblance in culture between Middletown and Glasslough ,just as many towns and villages in Northern Italy are more German or Austrian in culture than Italian,but it means nothing in the overall scheme of things.

was re

Well now that you mention, Alto Adige ensures the territorial integrity of Italy, despite some there who hanker for the former colonial power, a bit like Larne. 

Reasons why there will not be a United Ireland are principally:

Freestate abandoned the North in the 1920s.

Freestate dispensed with Articles 2 and 3 in 1998.

All of nationalist Ireland accepts the British "right" to govern the North.

Minister in free state government admitted freestate couldn't afford the North.

North is categorised under Freestate's Foreign Affairs Dept (they therefore regard us as Irish as Syria)

In short,if unionists became nationalists tomorrow there still wouldn't be a United Ireland.

I take no pleasure in pointing out these unpalatable facts.However why hanker after something that simply is not going to come about

People agreed that Britain should administer NI until there is nationalist majority, if unionists become nationalists as you say then then nobody thinks that Britain should be in NI. The only remaining problem as you say, is that NI is an economic basket case. What we need is a united Ireland, not a part of Ireland that works and hands over money to the other part. There is no advantage in NI remaining poor as a mechanism for preventing a united Ireland. If you want a common cause for the people of the 6 counties to come together on, then let that cause be one where they aim to achieve the economic success of the 26 counties or Scotland and stop being the indigent relation.

[T Fearon]

Write to the Dublin Government with those requests?😂😂😂😂😂😂 The 26 county "success" is built on European money,and leaves that part of Ireland in thrall to Germany,it is no more successful than the North,in that it relies on foreign subsidies as well as bribing rich businesses and people with low corporation tax etc.It doesn't even have its own currency.Is this really the scenario you want to live in, even if the people of the south wanted you or me (which they don't).

[armaghniac]

Write to the Dublin Government with those requests?😂😂😂😂😂😂 The 26 county "success" is built on European money,and leaves that part of Ireland in thrall to Germany,it is no more successful than the North,in that it relies on foreign subsidies as well as bribing rich businesses and people with low corporation tax etc.It doesn't even have its own currency.Is this really the scenario you want to live in, even if the people of the south wanted you or me (which they don't).

This is complete bollix and you well know it. NI gets EU grants along with every other poor region. "Bribing" corporations with low tax brings hundreds of thousands of well paid jobs and is such a good idea that  NI seems keen to adopt it. Having your own currency is not as important as having adequate quantities of it, being in the same situation as nations such as France and none the worse off for it.