English V Carey

[bottlethrower7]

In fairness to Cashman, it had to be galling for any Corkman who had seen the majesty of Ring, to see the Kilkenny propaganda machine spinning out of control wrt to as  flawed a hurler as Carey. Schadenfreude at Carey's woefull performences v Cork in recent All Ire finalswas had by all in Cork.THe Carey spin machine has certainly forever soured Cork views on him.

I don't think anyone would argue that the 'Carey spin machine' went a little out of control. As HOH said, none of that was of his making. And to somehow imply that his was anything less than a great hurler, for this reason, is very narrow-minded (but whats new there, eh Tomas?). In my book, Carey is the finest hurler of my lifetime. Whelehan was certainly more consistent, but Carey more talented in my view. Again, this is apples and oranges stuff, only my opinion, but there ya go.

Back to the 'spin machine'. This is the self-same 'spin machine' that would have us believe that Cork would be winning anything and everything under the sun, had Setanta O'hAlpin not turned his back on his county, the same 'spin machine' that would have us believe that Diarmaid O'Sullivan is a good hurler, and the same 'spin machine' that would glorify horribly average players like Sean McGrath (and to a lesser extent) Joe Deane.

People in glass houses Tomas.......

[mouview]

Back to the 'spin machine'. This is the self-same 'spin machine' that would have us believe that Cork would be winning anything and everything under the sun, had Setanta O'hAlpin not turned his back on his county, the same 'spin machine' that would have us believe that Diarmaid O'Sullivan is a good hurler, and the same 'spin machine' that would glorify horribly average players like Sean McGrath (and to a lesser extent) Joe Deane.

And Setanta's older brother!!!

[GalteeMountainBoy]

I'm part of the English brigade as well but I'll concede to anyone who reckons there is bias to my opinion. Because they're probably right

Its marginal, but I think Nicky had the greater finesse, on his day there was something otherworldly about his hurling game. Finesse alone would seperate the two; I think Carey's reputation really only took off in his latter years, and by taking off I mean the panelgiac stuff that is often written about him being an equal of Ring, Keher or Doyle (Jimmy). Remember the jibing he often (with some justification to be fair) DJ had to ship for large parts of his career about being effectively a "choker" on All Ireland Final day.
I'll see you that and raise you Nicky v. Conor Hayes in 1988 I hear you say. Whats more widely known now and was really only half known then is that Nicky and his family took an incredible amount of abuse in the week before that All Ireland. I've often thought it may have been a factor in him later decided to move to Dublin to live.

As for Cooney, I think glorious and all as he was in his pomp., there was a slide in his career towards the end.

[sligeach]

Well I'm not from a hurling county obviously but ...

I have always argued the point that DJ was overrated. I just can't understand why so many people think he was so great. The media always had a hard on for him but thats a different issue.

I just don't see why people consider him so good ? To me Henry Shefflin and Eoin Kelly (Tipp) are much better even at this early stage.  I won't keep going because I really like Kilkenny hurling and kilkenny people and I always end up in an argument over this. I was even told before that DJ was better then Eddie Keher and as proof of this the lad said that Keher said DJ was better then him.

Well Eddie might well have said but it doesn't make it true. Best Kilkenny hurler to date -> Eddie Keher.

As for Nicky, I believe he was better then DJ but the best of his time ? I don't know.

Nicky was fantastic, I only had the pleasure of watching him a few times. Himself and Pat Fox were fantastic players.

[Bord na Mona man]

I think Carey was somewhat overrated, but remember he arrived around the time that coverage of hurling exploded in the media.
What probably clouded the debate further was how offended Cork people got about comparisons to Christy Ring, so naturally they would tend to go overdrive at highlighting Carey's flaws.

I don't think we was ultimate all round hurler, but he was a devastating finisher and goal scorer.
When he'd take possession anywhere close to goals, the gasp of expectation from the crowd is something that no other player has generated in my lifetime.

Like HOH mentioned, English missed a lot of the television era. Before the 90s, Munster clashes didn't get televised live. After that, English was injury hit and often playing cameo roles.
My memories of English was that he could sweet points from distance, even with his marker breathing down his neck.

If you needed someone to dig a team out of a hole with a last minute goal, I'd give Carey the nod. To win the game with a scatter of points, then I'd go for English.

[bottlethrower7]

I think Carey was somewhat overrated, but remember he arrived around the time that coverage of hurling exploded in the media.
What probably clouded the debate further was how offended Cork people got about comparisons to Christy Ring, so naturally they would tend to go overdrive at highlighting Carey's flaws.

don't forget though, at that time TG4 started reshowing old all-Irelands. A lot of people had never seen those games, and it was fairly apparent that the standard wasn't all that hot. I think Carey was being held up in the context of the standard of his day against Ring relative to his.

But, comparing any 2 players is a pointless exercise. In saying that, Carey was far better than Ring!