Man Utd Thread:

Started by full back, November 10, 2006, 08:13:49 AM

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Ed Ricketts

Quote from: oakleaflad on October 05, 2020, 12:58:03 PM
Cavani and Telles having medicals. Deals should go through today.

Also heavily rumoured to have agreed a deal to sign 18 year old winger Amad Traore from Atalanta for 30m Euros plus add ons, with him joining in January due to issues obtaining a work permit.

€30million+ after 24 minutes of football. Must be special.

Fantastic that the first team is in such good shape that transfer budget can be blown on punts like this.
Doc would listen to any kind of nonsense and change it for you to a kind of wisdom.

sid waddell

Quote from: Taylor on October 05, 2020, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: Bronco on October 05, 2020, 12:04:15 PM
The season before last he scored 13 league goals and had 10 assists despite not always being played in an advanced role. The season before that he had 13 assists.

To me that's a good return for any midfielder under the circumstances, especially when you factor in many of his teammates were terrible.

I believe a lot of the criticism he gets is racist pure and simple. There's absolutely no chance a white English midfielder performing to Pogba's level would get the same level of unwarranted criticism.


Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2020, 11:52:12 AM
Quote from: Bronco on October 05, 2020, 11:43:05 AM
Pogba is a very talented player,but he isn't being used to his strengths. In a way he's a victim of his own versatility.

That's an interesting narrative.

By "interesting" I mean, "when a player has continually underachieved for 3 years, attempts to defend him is just being contrary for the sake of it".

Racist?
Show me an white English midfielder who was signed for what he was signed for and what he is paid weekly?

If there was one and he was carrying on the way Pogba does (on and off the field) he would be destroyed by the English media
I suppose Gareth Bale would be as close to a comparison as you could get

A world class talent who hasn't had the best attitude over the last few years, but who still showed his quality when it mattered most in 2018

The British media seem to be fairly sweet on him, I suppose because they find him to be an identifiable figure in the way they don't with Pogba


nrico2006

Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 01:27:58 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 05, 2020, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: Bronco on October 05, 2020, 12:04:15 PM
The season before last he scored 13 league goals and had 10 assists despite not always being played in an advanced role. The season before that he had 13 assists.

To me that's a good return for any midfielder under the circumstances, especially when you factor in many of his teammates were terrible.

I believe a lot of the criticism he gets is racist pure and simple. There's absolutely no chance a white English midfielder performing to Pogba's level would get the same level of unwarranted criticism.

Has Bales attitude been bad really though?  Playing golf in his spare time and having a dig, via the banner, at a club who showed him no respect is hardly a bad attitude.  The man wanted to play but had a manager with a bad attitude.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2020, 11:52:12 AM
Quote from: Bronco on October 05, 2020, 11:43:05 AM
Pogba is a very talented player,but he isn't being used to his strengths. In a way he's a victim of his own versatility.

That's an interesting narrative.

By "interesting" I mean, "when a player has continually underachieved for 3 years, attempts to defend him is just being contrary for the sake of it".

Racist?
Show me an white English midfielder who was signed for what he was signed for and what he is paid weekly?

If there was one and he was carrying on the way Pogba does (on and off the field) he would be destroyed by the English media
I suppose Gareth Bale would be as close to a comparison as you could get

A world class talent who hasn't had the best attitude over the last few years, but who still showed his quality when it mattered most in 2018

The British media seem to be fairly sweet on him, I suppose because they find him to be an identifiable figure in the way they don't with Pogba
'To the extreme I rock a mic like a vandal, light up a stage and wax a chump like a candle.'

thewobbler

Ah great.

Looks like it's no longer possible to point out that a black player is underachieving, without being labelled a racist.

How has the world ended up like this?

——

Pogba generates disdain moreso than fellow underachieving peers because he acts like a superstar off the pitch, but generally goes missing when on the pitch.

Taylor

Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 01:27:58 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 05, 2020, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: Bronco on October 05, 2020, 12:04:15 PM
The season before last he scored 13 league goals and had 10 assists despite not always being played in an advanced role. The season before that he had 13 assists.

To me that's a good return for any midfielder under the circumstances, especially when you factor in many of his teammates were terrible.

I believe a lot of the criticism he gets is racist pure and simple. There's absolutely no chance a white English midfielder performing to Pogba's level would get the same level of unwarranted criticism.


Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2020, 11:52:12 AM
Quote from: Bronco on October 05, 2020, 11:43:05 AM
Pogba is a very talented player,but he isn't being used to his strengths. In a way he's a victim of his own versatility.

That's an interesting narrative.

By "interesting" I mean, "when a player has continually underachieved for 3 years, attempts to defend him is just being contrary for the sake of it".

Racist?
Show me an white English midfielder who was signed for what he was signed for and what he is paid weekly?

If there was one and he was carrying on the way Pogba does (on and off the field) he would be destroyed by the English media
I suppose Gareth Bale would be as close to a comparison as you could get

A world class talent who hasn't had the best attitude over the last few years, but who still showed his quality when it mattered most in 2018

The British media seem to be fairly sweet on him, I suppose because they find him to be an identifiable figure in the way they don't with Pogba

Possibly Sid however the difference is Bale delivers on the pitch (when he does get on).

Being on Spain also took some attention off him.

Pogba doesnt deliver on the pitch (or hasnt any time I have seen him in the last few years).

Off the pitch his social media presence, the brands he promotes - you have to deliver if you are going to do that.

Dont remember Bale having any social media presence as such

trileacman

Bale gets a good bit of abuse for being the "golfer" and not trying to speak Spanish. The times are quite commonly on his case as are other broadsheet journalists for pissing away his best years happily sitting on a bench raking in the cash.

I don't think Pogba gets enough stick for his poor performances. Harry Maguire's price tag is regularly thrown at him here on this board and in the press. Pogba is hardly mentioned. Likewise Man U best performances this past 3 years have tended to come when he hasn't been playing.
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

Bronco

Acts like a superstar? What does this mean? Please provide a few examples.


Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2020, 02:28:42 PM
Ah great.

Looks like it's no longer possible to point out that a black player is underachieving, without being labelled a racist.

How has the world ended up like this?

——

Pogba generates disdain moreso than fellow underachieving peers because he acts like a superstar off the pitch, but generally goes missing when on the pitch.

sid waddell

Quote from: Taylor on October 05, 2020, 02:40:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 01:27:58 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 05, 2020, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: Bronco on October 05, 2020, 12:04:15 PM
The season before last he scored 13 league goals and had 10 assists despite not always being played in an advanced role. The season before that he had 13 assists.

To me that's a good return for any midfielder under the circumstances, especially when you factor in many of his teammates were terrible.

I believe a lot of the criticism he gets is racist pure and simple. There's absolutely no chance a white English midfielder performing to Pogba's level would get the same level of unwarranted criticism.


Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2020, 11:52:12 AM
Quote from: Bronco on October 05, 2020, 11:43:05 AM
Pogba is a very talented player,but he isn't being used to his strengths. In a way he's a victim of his own versatility.

That's an interesting narrative.

By "interesting" I mean, "when a player has continually underachieved for 3 years, attempts to defend him is just being contrary for the sake of it".

Racist?
Show me an white English midfielder who was signed for what he was signed for and what he is paid weekly?

If there was one and he was carrying on the way Pogba does (on and off the field) he would be destroyed by the English media
I suppose Gareth Bale would be as close to a comparison as you could get

A world class talent who hasn't had the best attitude over the last few years, but who still showed his quality when it mattered most in 2018

The British media seem to be fairly sweet on him, I suppose because they find him to be an identifiable figure in the way they don't with Pogba

Possibly Sid however the difference is Bale delivers on the pitch (when he does get on).

Being on Spain also took some attention off him.

Pogba doesnt deliver on the pitch (or hasnt any time I have seen him in the last few years).

Off the pitch his social media presence, the brands he promotes - you have to deliver if you are going to do that.

Dont remember Bale having any social media presence as such

Bale hasn't delivered very much on the pitch since 2016 with the notable exception of the Champions League final in 2018 - but that was just one kick of a ball, a great one admittedly (his second goal was a goalkeeping howler which should have been stopped 100 times out of 100)

He was happy to pose with a flag which said "Wales, Golf, Madrid, in that order"

That's far more unprofessional than anything Pogba did

Pogba is a Rolls Royce of a footballer and showed it at the 2018 World Cup

He made a disastrous career move to a club which has been poison for the last seven years and where nobody seems to know what they're doing

Difficult to shine in that atmosphere

I do think there's an element of certain old school pundits taking a particular dislike to him because they're automatically suspicious of a confident young black man from the Paris banlieues and automatically think he's of bad character

The likes of Souness and Giles look at Pogba and just think to themselves "trouble", because they can't identify with him

But that's not the reality

In reality Pogba is no different in character to most other professional footballers, he just needs somebody to bring the best out of his talents and he hasn't had that at Manchester United, I keep saying it but if they had a proper manager like Pochettino I'd wager they'd get a lot more out of Pogba


Taylor

Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 03:22:51 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 05, 2020, 02:40:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 01:27:58 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 05, 2020, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: Bronco on October 05, 2020, 12:04:15 PM
The season before last he scored 13 league goals and had 10 assists despite not always being played in an advanced role. The season before that he had 13 assists.

To me that's a good return for any midfielder under the circumstances, especially when you factor in many of his teammates were terrible.

I believe a lot of the criticism he gets is racist pure and simple. There's absolutely no chance a white English midfielder performing to Pogba's level would get the same level of unwarranted criticism.


Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2020, 11:52:12 AM
Quote from: Bronco on October 05, 2020, 11:43:05 AM
Pogba is a very talented player,but he isn't being used to his strengths. In a way he's a victim of his own versatility.

That's an interesting narrative.

By "interesting" I mean, "when a player has continually underachieved for 3 years, attempts to defend him is just being contrary for the sake of it".

Racist?
Show me an white English midfielder who was signed for what he was signed for and what he is paid weekly?

If there was one and he was carrying on the way Pogba does (on and off the field) he would be destroyed by the English media
I suppose Gareth Bale would be as close to a comparison as you could get

A world class talent who hasn't had the best attitude over the last few years, but who still showed his quality when it mattered most in 2018

The British media seem to be fairly sweet on him, I suppose because they find him to be an identifiable figure in the way they don't with Pogba

Possibly Sid however the difference is Bale delivers on the pitch (when he does get on).

Being on Spain also took some attention off him.

Pogba doesnt deliver on the pitch (or hasnt any time I have seen him in the last few years).

Off the pitch his social media presence, the brands he promotes - you have to deliver if you are going to do that.

Dont remember Bale having any social media presence as such

Bale hasn't delivered very much on the pitch since 2016 with the notable exception of the Champions League final in 2018 - but that was just one kick of a ball, a great one admittedly (his second goal was a goalkeeping howler which should have been stopped 100 times out of 100)

He was happy to pose with a flag which said "Wales, Golf, Madrid, in that order"

That's far more unprofessional than anything Pogba did

Pogba is a Rolls Royce of a footballer and showed it at the 2018 World Cup

He made a disastrous career move to a club which has been poison for the last seven years and where nobody seems to know what they're doing

Difficult to shine in that atmosphere

I do think there's an element of certain old school pundits taking a particular dislike to him because they're automatically suspicious of a confident young black man from the Paris banlieues and automatically think he's of bad character

The likes of Souness and Giles look at Pogba and just think to themselves "trouble", because they can't identify with him

But that's not the reality

In reality Pogba is no different in character to most other professional footballers, he just needs somebody to bring the best out of his talents and he hasn't had that at Manchester United, I keep saying it but if they had a proper manager like Pochettino I'd wager they'd get a lot more out of Pogba

Granted some of your above points however any stick Pogba gets is nothing to do with race.


Bronco

I'm still patiently awaiting responses to my earlier posts....

sid waddell

Quote from: Taylor on October 05, 2020, 03:27:06 PM

Granted some of your above points however any stick Pogba gets is nothing to do with race.
I hae me doots about that, it's not something that's provable but I think there's definitely an element of unconscious racism with some people who focus on him, Souness and Giles especially, a sort of unconscious Ron Atkinson complex

It would be very naive to think that sort of attitude has simply disappeared

GJL

Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 03:33:43 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 05, 2020, 03:27:06 PM

Granted some of your above points however any stick Pogba gets is nothing to do with race.
I hae me doots about that, it's not something that's provable but I think there's definitely an element of unconscious racism with some people who focus on him, Souness and Giles especially, a sort of unconscious Ron Atkinson complex

It would be very naive to think that sort of attitude has simply disappeared

Souness demonstrated this type of thinking yesterday leading to a skysports appology. He probably had a valid point but would be better keeping it to himself.

imtommygunn

Pogba is a huge footballing talent who only seems to play when he can be arsed. He is an infuriating player so deserves plenty of abuse.

I don't support his team(s) so don't care that much. The comparison that springs to mind for me is Aidan McGeady. Ah McGeady has it he's going to do something great here. Nope. Repeat at infinitum. I know it's a lesser scale of ability but it's infuriating for a fan of his team to watch. Stephen Ireland was on that scale too. Those kind of players do my head in and do plenty of peoples heads in too.

J70

#47353
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 03:22:51 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 05, 2020, 02:40:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 01:27:58 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 05, 2020, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: Bronco on October 05, 2020, 12:04:15 PM
The season before last he scored 13 league goals and had 10 assists despite not always being played in an advanced role. The season before that he had 13 assists.

To me that's a good return for any midfielder under the circumstances, especially when you factor in many of his teammates were terrible.

I believe a lot of the criticism he gets is racist pure and simple. There's absolutely no chance a white English midfielder performing to Pogba's level would get the same level of unwarranted criticism.


Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2020, 11:52:12 AM
Quote from: Bronco on October 05, 2020, 11:43:05 AM
Pogba is a very talented player,but he isn't being used to his strengths. In a way he's a victim of his own versatility.

That's an interesting narrative.

By "interesting" I mean, "when a player has continually underachieved for 3 years, attempts to defend him is just being contrary for the sake of it".

Racist?
Show me an white English midfielder who was signed for what he was signed for and what he is paid weekly?

If there was one and he was carrying on the way Pogba does (on and off the field) he would be destroyed by the English media
I suppose Gareth Bale would be as close to a comparison as you could get

A world class talent who hasn't had the best attitude over the last few years, but who still showed his quality when it mattered most in 2018

The British media seem to be fairly sweet on him, I suppose because they find him to be an identifiable figure in the way they don't with Pogba

Possibly Sid however the difference is Bale delivers on the pitch (when he does get on).

Being on Spain also took some attention off him.

Pogba doesnt deliver on the pitch (or hasnt any time I have seen him in the last few years).

Off the pitch his social media presence, the brands he promotes - you have to deliver if you are going to do that.

Dont remember Bale having any social media presence as such

Bale hasn't delivered very much on the pitch since 2016 with the notable exception of the Champions League final in 2018 - but that was just one kick of a ball, a great one admittedly (his second goal was a goalkeeping howler which should have been stopped 100 times out of 100)

He was happy to pose with a flag which said "Wales, Golf, Madrid, in that order"

That's far more unprofessional than anything Pogba did

Pogba is a Rolls Royce of a footballer and showed it at the 2018 World Cup

He made a disastrous career move to a club which has been poison for the last seven years and where nobody seems to know what they're doing

Difficult to shine in that atmosphere

I do think there's an element of certain old school pundits taking a particular dislike to him because they're automatically suspicious of a confident young black man from the Paris banlieues and automatically think he's of bad character

The likes of Souness and Giles look at Pogba and just think to themselves "trouble", because they can't identify with him

But that's not the reality

In reality Pogba is no different in character to most other professional footballers, he just needs somebody to bring the best out of his talents and he hasn't had that at Manchester United, I keep saying it but if they had a proper manager like Pochettino I'd wager they'd get a lot more out of Pogba

Haven't heard much of Souness, but I do listen to Giles quite regularly on Eamon Dunphy's podcast.

They were actually only talking about Pogba last week, and from what I remember, Giles was quite complementary about him, particularly ability-wise, but putting the problem down to United's tactics and the way he was being used, with United not playing to his strengths. Basically, he doesn't fit the team.

BennyCake

Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 03:33:43 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 05, 2020, 03:27:06 PM

Granted some of your above points however any stick Pogba gets is nothing to do with race.
I hae me doots about that, it's not something that's provable but I think there's definitely an element of unconscious racism with some people who focus on him, Souness and Giles especially, a sort of unconscious Ron Atkinson complex

It would be very naive to think that sort of attitude has simply disappeared

Are you Canadian?

Fans are pissed off at Pogba's shit attitude and poor performances, that's been going on for 3 seasons. He's on astronomical wages and does feck all to justify them.  Feck all to do with race.