Rugby world cup 2015

[AZOffaly]

And we don't trust those sort of guys. Zebo was probably lucky to make the squad, and was nowhere near the team for the big games.

[gallsman]

Is the timing of the Rugby Championship and 6 nations an advantage to the southern hemisphere teams?

I wouldn't know too much about Rugby so should the Argie no 3 have seen red for that tackle?

TMO decided that he led with his arm going into the ruck, therefore fine.

However, to most it looked like he threw himself in head first. Didn't look like he deliberately targeted anyone around the head area (which would have been dangerous play and an immediate red) but deserved a yellow. He'd already picked a yellow up in the first half, so he should have walked.

[AZOffaly]

Is the timing of the Rugby Championship and 6 nations an advantage to the southern hemisphere teams?

I wouldn't know too much about Rugby so should the Argie no 3 have seen red for that tackle?

TMO decided that he led with his arm going into the ruck, therefore fine.

However, to most it looked like he threw himself in head first. Didn't look like he deliberately targeted anyone around the head area (which would have been dangerous play and an immediate red) but deserved a yellow. He'd already picked a yellow up in the first half, so he should have walked.

TMO did *not* say that. It wasn't fine, it was a penalty. He said he led with his left arm, but he was about to say he threw his right shoulder in when Garces cut him off. Plain to see the left arm but the right shoulder was what made the contact. You could tell Garces knew he would have to send him off. I bet if he wasn't on a yellow, he'd have received one right there.

[gallsman]

Ireland is a small island with only have 3 1/2 teams to pick from and a large part of the population don't play rugby so it's hard to get to the level of teams like the All Blacks but in the NH the emphasis seems to be on eating a few extra steaks so that players bulk up then both teams charge at each other, the strongest team then generally wins.  The SH teams are at least equally based on agility.  It's ok having the ability to drive a guy back if he runs straight at you but if you can't catch him you can't tackle him.  There is not enough players like Jason Robinson in the northern hemisphere that can cut a team open using there agility and pace.  I think the Foley tries against England showed the difference in the type of players the southern hemisphere have.

Crash ball rugby. It's a bit simplistic to say that the SH teams are all based on agility. The South African team would generally be the biggest beasts in world rugby. They obviously have quality players in the backline, but overall they'd be nowhere near the skill level of the All Blacks (or, as it transpires, Japan).

As for some of the comments here calling people out for "almost being happy Ireland lost", that's absolute horseshit. What people feel is vindication after an overwhelming display of arrogance and rugby snobbery. Comments to the effect of "South Africa can't be that good, they lost to Japan" completely ignore the fact that the Japan performance that day probably would have beaten everyone in the tournament outside maybe the All Blacks and New Zealand. The Tier 2 countries have come on absolutely massively in this tournament and I don't understand where the arrogance comes from - anyone in Ireland's group would have had it very, very tough against Georgia for example. We need to realise that we do not belong at the very top table. Instead, we reside firmly in a second tier that is much broader than originally thought.

[AZOffaly]

Ireland were ranked third before the Argentina game. I suppose it depends where you draw the line at the top table. I would say Ireland, all things being equal, are competitive with the likes of Argentina, South Africa, England, France, Wales. Probably 5th or 6th in real rankings. If that's not top table, then so be it, they are not at the top table.

I think they are a level below Australia and New Zealand.

I think the likes of Japan and Georgia have probably closed the gap a bit, and even Romania would have the likes of Fiji and Italy in their sights.

[ashman]

Everything AZ is saying is reasonable in itself, but I think Dave Hannigan nailed the long-term problem on Twitter:

In terms of overinflated expectations matched by failure to deliver in major tournaments, Irish rugby starting to resemble English soccer

Harsh, but fair. This is the eighth World Cup and we haven't won a single knockout game. And the thing is, I don't know the question to ask, let alone the answer. The Tri Nations/Rugby Championship is clearly a superior competition - this is not news - but the Six Nations is at the heart of rugby in these islands. The moment you start picking at it, you run the risk of the whole thing unravelling. The mediocrity, for the want of a less inflammatory term, is built-in.

Come on Argentina.

Think same chap is not keen on rugby .  Ireland went in to RWC with realistic hopes of reaching a semi final .  Serious rugby folk thought that based on last two years .  Of course certain media went OTT on this.

Injuries had a huge bearing but Argentina were just better yesterday.

The Southern Hemisphere teams are moving the ball quicker and playing a less physically demanding game.  They avoid contact . 

[gallsman]

Ireland were ranked third before the Argentina game. I suppose it depends where you draw the line at the top table. I would say Ireland, all things being equal, are competitive with the likes of Argentina, South Africa, England, France, Wales. Probably 5th or 6th in real rankings. If that's not top table, then so be it, they are not at the top table.

I think they are a level below Australia and New Zealand.

I think the likes of Japan and Georgia have probably closed the gap a bit, and even Romania would have the likes of Fiji and Italy in their sights.

I put NZ out in front at the top table and since Cheika came in, Australia have joined them. South Africa are a bit below them with the "better" 6 Nations teams and Argentina, then the "weaker" 6 Nations teams and the "newcomers" are a bit behind that. With the exception of NZ, obviously on any given day, any top team can beat one of the others (Aus-Sco yesterday for example) but at this stage I think the gap between what I'm labeling Tier 1 and Tier 2 is bigger than that between Tiers 2 and 3.

Canada were also largely excellent in this tournament and should have beaten Italy. Considering the disparity between the finances and infrastructure in some of these countries and the top teams, their achievements are all the more remarkable.

Is it time to look at fully democratizing World Rugby? Look at what a few years of regularly competing against the SANZAR teams has done for Argentina. Granted they were coming from a much stronger base (their 2007 team was bloody brilliant), but the likes of Romania and Georgia need to be testing themselves more regularly against the 6 Nations teams rather than beating on the  likes of Spain etc in the ENC.

[AZOffaly]

I think so. Romania and Georgia are certainly worthy of consideration for the 6 nations. They are no worse than Italy were when they were invited in. I wonder about the likes of Fiji, Samoa and Tonga though. It might be an unpopular thing to say, but I thought they were disappointing in this tournament. Japan were a breath of fresh air, but the rest of the pacific islands (I know I'm taking a liberty including Japan in that term) were poor. But is their an appetite down under to help them? New Zealand, for all their achievements and standing, have raped those countries for years for their best players. Would they really like to see Samoa, Tonga and Fiji given a better tournament to play in? Would they let them into an expanded Rugby Championship?

I have my doubts.

[JoG2]

In fairness, Indiana was flagging the Argentine threat beforehand, so he can feel vindicated. I don't think sensible Irish were any way writing the Argentinians off, but it's the way the game unfolded that disappointed me.

AZ Wales had far more injuries then us and came out of a much tougher pool

They haven't complained about injuries once- they just got on with it. Gatland again today- injuries are not an excuse he said - we had the chances to win it.

Just as a point of information Argentina are down 3 tight-head props, and their first choice second row(who got a 9 week ban in the first game) and their first choice centre yesterday.

Injuries in a game like rugby union are just an excuse. All teams have them.

We lost because we were beaten by a better team and in my opinion we grossly underestimated them. If we really thought they could beat us we'd have prepared to defend our wider channels better. One of our wingers missed five tackles out of nine yesterday.

The 6 Nations is a second rate competition-we can see now why Argentina declined the offer to join the 6 Nations five years ago and instead joined the Rugby Championship.

It's funny there was serious opposition from the other Rugby Championship partners to letting them in and you can see why yesterday.

Argentina has a big population of people and stature wise they are genetically a physically big nation. Put your money on them now for the 2019 WC

did they?

[gallsman]

I think so. Romania and Georgia are certainly worthy of consideration for the 6 nations. They are no worse than Italy were when they were invited in. I wonder about the likes of Fiji, Samoa and Tonga though. It might be an unpopular thing to say, but I thought they were disappointing in this tournament. Japan were a breath of fresh air, but the rest of the pacific islands (I know I'm taking a liberty including Japan in that term) were poor. But is their an appetite down under to help them? New Zealand, for all their achievements and standing, have raped those countries for years for their best players. Would they really like to see Samoa, Tonga and Fiji given a better tournament to play in? Would they let them into an expanded Rugby Championship?

I have my doubts.

Fiji could probably stand their ground. Samoa and Tonga aren't at that level. Tonga's win against France four years ago is a distant memory.

As you've pointed out, many of these countries could be better if they had their full pool of players available to them. Part of the issue here is the pillaging of youth players for the club teams in Aus and NZ but there is an additional, and more sinister, complication in that it's an open secret that professional teams, especially in France, will insist on Pacific Island players giving up on playing for their countries before they sign them.

It will be interesting to see what happens if/when there's a push to include Georgia and perhaps also Romania in an expanded Northern hemisphere tournament. The 6 Nations isn't administered by World Rugby, so even if democratised, there'll be little influence there and I imagine the English and French clubs wouldn't take too kindly to the tournament being extended for another three or four weeks. It would hopefully result in greater pressure  on the established unions to budge though.

[Syferus]

Alot of the Island nations' best players are poached by the big two and NZ in particular. If they had their full pick the Pacific Islanders team that represented them all would be a force at international level.

Brutal weekend for the Northern sides. We don't go for the bruises like Wales,  England and France do but we don't have the cutting edge southern teams,  SA excepted,  have.

We're caught in a middle ground where we're better than the other European sides but the game we have to play to outfox them seems to leave us susceptible to the quick off-loading game played in the south.

[rodney trotter]

Samoa played some played brilliant Rugby in the final group game against Scotland. They couldn't keep up the intensity in the second half but was great to watch. A pity they hadn't played like that from the beginning of the tournament

[gallsman]

Alot of the Island nations' best players are poached by the big two and NZ in particular. If they had their full pick the Pacific Islanders team that represented them all would be a force at international level.

Brutal weekend for the Northern sides. We don't go for the bruises like Wales,  England and France do but we don't have the cutting edge southern teams,  SA excepted,  have.

We're caught in a middle ground where we're better than the other European sides but the game we have to play to outfox them seems to leave us susceptible to the quick off-loading game played in the south.

I don't really think we're that much better than the other 6 Nations teams, Italy and probably Scotland aside, although I imagine this tournament will boost Scotland enormously. We've won the last two 6 Nations and deservedly so, but only on points difference.

[Canalman]

This tournament is the deathknell of the ahem "fat" international rugby player imo.

[Syferus]

Alot of the Island nations' best players are poached by the big two and NZ in particular. If they had their full pick the Pacific Islanders team that represented them all would be a force at international level.

Brutal weekend for the Northern sides. We don't go for the bruises like Wales,  England and France do but we don't have the cutting edge southern teams,  SA excepted,  have.

We're caught in a middle ground where we're better than the other European sides but the game we have to play to outfox them seems to leave us susceptible to the quick off-loading game played in the south.

I don't really think we're that much better than the other 6 Nations teams, Italy and probably Scotland aside, although I imagine this tournament will boost Scotland enormously. We've won the last two 6 Nations and deservedly so, but only on points difference.

Only one of the challengers not to play Bruiserball. Of all the teams who have a chance of living with the southern ones it should be us.  Indeed we've proved we can multiple times just not in the WC apparently. Need to uptime our players' intelligence in attack and not just in defense. Schmidt will hopefully take stock for the Spring and set us on that road.