Westport

[Fishead_Sam]

Nah, better than that Sam – Portadown!!! 

The ancestors must have been too busy reasoning with them to fight back. Id say I'm from the crowd that where Mayo already the family name/clan are in the County min. 1,500 years but Im sure there was some Ulster infiltration along the way.

Louisburg was called something else a few hundred years ago, it was renamed after a battle fought along what is now the American/Canadian border in the Anglo-French/Indian wars. Some Landlord son got killed by a Frenchman or Indian so he renamed the Village after the Battle of Louisburg aparantlly.

Talking about the Ulster Influence, Castlebar had a load of Ulster Protestants moved into the town around 250 years ago. Castlebar had the biggest Linen trade in Ireland outside of Ulster. Two streets in the town acknowledge its Ulster Heritage, Linnenhall Street & New Antrim Street.

[Donagh]

It was build by Lord Altamont for the 4,000 Catholic weavers from Armagh who had taken refuge in Mayo in 1795. He named it Louisburgh, after his daughter Louisa, whom as I vaguely remember went mad or something after her husband was killed in the Americas.

Yup your linen trade was based on the weavers from north Armagh. Linen was the main industry in Armagh at the time amongst both Catohlics and Protestant, but around 1975 there was a slump in the trade coinciding with the outbreak of the Seven Years War. So although the Orangemen claimed at the time they were getting rid of rebels, the real reason was that they were getting rid of their economic competition – the Catholic weavers.

Yez are all nordies I'm afraid Sam.

[Fishead_Sam]

It was build by Lord Altamont for the 4,000 Catholic weavers from Armagh who had taken refuge in Mayo in 1795. He named it Louisburgh, after his daughter Louisa, whom as I vaguely remember went mad or something after her husband was killed in the Americas.

Yup your linen trade was based on the weavers from north Armagh. Linen was the main industry in Armagh at the time amongst both Catohlics and Protestant, but around 1975 there was a slump in the trade coinciding with the outbreak of the Seven Years War. So although the Orangemen claimed at the time they were getting rid of rebels, the real reason was that they were getting rid of their economic competition – the Catholic weavers.

Yez are all nordies I'm afraid Sam.

Think I might be ok Carownisky Strand a little out of the village. Not disagreeing! with you Donagh but did all the local Mayo names swallow them up because look at all the shop names O'Malley, McNamarra, Durcan, Gibbons etc, all Old Murrisk or Connermarra names.

Is there a chance that her husbands was killed in the Anglo-French wars?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

As a general rule, FS, regarding the anglicisation of Gaelic names, those that might have been transliterated as Mc El..., Mc Il... (Mac Giolla as Gaeilge), etc., in Ulster, invariably became Kil... in Connacht, where those unfortunates would have had to take flight from Ulster at a time before the English language had broken through on its depredations.

So where you might see 'good' Connacht names like, say, Kilmurray, these might actually be Gaelic Ulster names that have been rendered as Mc El or Mc Il in Ulster, i.e., Mc Elmurray.

[Fishead_Sam]

As a general rule, FS, regarding the anglicisation of Gaelic names, those that might have been transliterated as Mc El..., Mc Il... (Mac Giolla as Gaeilge), etc., in Ulster, invariably became Kil... in Connacht, where those unfortunates would have had to take flight from Ulster at a time before the English language had broken through on its depredations.

So where you might see 'good' Connacht names like, say, Kilmurray, these might actually be Gaelic Ulster names that have been rendered as Mc El or Mc Il in Ulster, i.e., Mc Elmurray.

Thanks Fear on Srath Ban, but isn't it also a trend that towns or villages origionaly full of English or Scots or Anglisized Irish where over time often swamped/outnumbered by the local Irish over time thru successive movement from Country to Town, yes there is a common name in Mayo Kilcoyne that probably was an example, but as far as Im aware they mostly about 70 miles from Louisburg in the S.W. up near the N.E. of the County. Also Louisburg in an area of the country among the worst ravaged by the famine, is it not possible alot of origional villagers may have had a few shillings (being of a trade) to escape to the Americas during the famine. Sure up in Ulster large waves of Ulster-Scots left Ulster to take up their great granparents colonial tradition.

[Donagh]

Found this bit below on the web – seems we are both right Sam. We also had a thread on the old board about Mayo names that are also common in north Armagh. Can't remember them offhand but I was very surprised and the amount of overlap. Even derivations of the Gaelic version of my own surname, which is found only around the southern shores of Lough Neagh is fairly common in parts Mayo (north Armagh being predominantly Gaelic speaking at the time).

A Short History of Louisburgh
in Mayo in the West of Ireland
Louisburgh enjoys the unusual privilege of being a "planned town" retaining many of the original eighteenth century features in style and scale. It is also unique among Irish towns by taking its name from a town in the New World - the reverse of the normal pattern.
It is almost certainly named after the fortress town of Louisbourg in Nova Scotia where a member of the founding landlord's family, a Henry Browne of Westport, had taken part in a seige in 1758, and afterwards was a member of the reconstituted regiment called the Louisbourg Grenadiers.
This Henry Browne was an uncle of John Dennis Browne, 3rd Lord Altamont, who on the 21st May, 1787, married Louisa Catherine Howe, daughter of the Admiral of the British Fleet during the American Revolutionary War, and who also had family involvement in the siege of Louisbourg in Nova Scotia, Canada. Their son in turn married Catherine de Burgh, daughter of the Earl of Clanricarde.
So, when the new town of the Earl of Altamont on West Mayo came to be built about 1795/1796 in the western part of His Lordship's estate, the name Louisburgh naturally presented itself from the family connections with Louisbourg and the combined names of the two ladies, Louisa Catherine and Catherine de Burgh.
The town almost immediately received an influx of refugees fleeing from sectarian battles in County Armagh in 1795-1796.

[Fishead_Sam]

Found this bit below on the web – seems we are both right Sam. We also had a thread on the old board about Mayo names that are also common in north Armagh. Can't remember them offhand but I was very surprised and the amount of overlap. Even derivations of the Gaelic version of my own surname, which is found only around the southern shores of Lough Neagh is fairly common in parts Mayo (north Armagh being predominantly Gaelic speaking at the time).

A Short History of Louisburgh
in Mayo in the West of Ireland
Louisburgh enjoys the unusual privilege of being a "planned town" retaining many of the original eighteenth century features in style and scale. It is also unique among Irish towns by taking its name from a town in the New World - the reverse of the normal pattern.
It is almost certainly named after the fortress town of Louisbourg in Nova Scotia where a member of the founding landlord's family, a Henry Browne of Westport, had taken part in a seige in 1758, and afterwards was a member of the reconstituted regiment called the Louisbourg Grenadiers.
This Henry Browne was an uncle of John Dennis Browne, 3rd Lord Altamont, who on the 21st May, 1787, married Louisa Catherine Howe, daughter of the Admiral of the British Fleet during the American Revolutionary War, and who also had family involvement in the siege of Louisbourg in Nova Scotia, Canada. Their son in turn married Catherine de Burgh, daughter of the Earl of Clanricarde.
So, when the new town of the Earl of Altamont on West Mayo came to be built about 1795/1796 in the western part of His Lordship's estate, the name Louisburgh naturally presented itself from the family connections with Louisbourg and the combined names of the two ladies, Louisa Catherine and Catherine de Burgh.
The town almost immediately received an influx of refugees fleeing from sectarian battles in County Armagh in 1795-1796.

Goodman Donagh, there seems to have been a now almost forgotten interaction between Ulster & Mayo that existed. I often hear a version of my family name appear on programmes from BBC NI, UTV & RTE (when they go North) my family name is very certainly an Ancient Mayo name [I know that for a fact], but I hear a version of it found in Ulster instead of a Y ending it ends irionicaly in the e used as as Gaeilge and nearly always a Unionist Protestant name in the North but a common Mayo name, so Mayo people must have gone to Ulster as well as Ulster people coming to Mayo. From my mothers line her family name is very certainly origionaly from Donegal and maybe Scotland before that. Ciaran MacDonalds dad is from Donegal, Ronan MacGarritys from Fermanagh, Martin Carney a Donegal -Mayomans dad was from Mayo. The list goes on. The Linenhall planters in Castlebar etc.

Back to Catherine deBurgh you mentioned before that name is more commonly known as Burke or MacWillaim in Mayo but thats a Norman-Welsh not an Ulster-Scot or Ulster-Irish one. I am personaly very interested in Irish History and especialy local, but the interest tapers off at about the time of the famine, re-emerges for my hero Collins, and lose it again after that a bit. Really big 1798 man (Had it worked it sounds like a country where a party like Fine Gael would have flourished even more than it has, 1798 its my Interpretation of what a true Republican is, obviously thats just a personal opinion.)

[Donagh]

Ah we've something in common then, late 18th Ireland and particularly the Ulster Presbyterian connection to '98 is one of my pet subjects. I'm also rereading Pakenham's Year of Liberty in tandem with a biography of Richard Brinsley Sheridan at the moment and have a large print on canvass of the 'United Irish Patriots' taking pride of place over the dining room table (11 of the 17 being Ulstermen). Hard to make out the detail in this pic from the original in the National Gallery.

[Pangurban]

Are you fellows familiar with the term...Flight Of Ideas

[Donagh]

Are you fellows familiar with the term...Flight Of Ideas

I've heard of the term Pangurban, but I'm sure most of us have our nerdy passions that take over when we find someone else with a similar interest. Apologies...

[Pangurban]

No apology required Donagh, i share the same interest, but i was amused by the way a simple query re. attractions in Westport deviated into a discussion of placenames,origins of surnames and the history of Ireland in the 17th and 18th Centuries. Interesting discussion nevertheless

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Thanks Fear on Srath Ban, but isn't it also a trend that towns or villages origionaly full of English or Scots or Anglisized Irish where over time often swamped/outnumbered by the local Irish over time thru successive movement from Country to Town...

Apologies for the delay in getting back to you FS, and yes, there would have been myriad migrations and population movements, particularly with the dawning of the 'Industrial Revolution' across the water, which would certainly have led to major demographic shifts in town populations throughout recent Irish history, all over Ireland. The Great Hunger is another story of course, where population movements were due to an altogether more pressing dynamic, of which your own county was a particularly noteworthy victim.

[Fishead_Sam]

The Great Hunger is another story of course, where population movements were due to an altogether more pressing dynamic, of which your own county was a particularly noteworthy victim.

One of the reasons that from Boston - Berlin, Ballyhaunis - Brisbane, Barain - Buones Aires, Blackrock - Ballincollig, Belfast - Bancock, Belmullet - Birmigham, Brussels - Bahamas, Baltimore - Balkens everywhere you go theres always a Mayo person, those that didn't die or stay seem to have appeared in every little nook-&-cranny on this planet. Esp. Coppers & Flannerys of Wexford St. 

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Interesting article on An Ghorta Mhór in today's Irish Times (it was never a 'famine' -- there was an overabundance of food... leaving the country!):

President recalls forgotten story of Famine

Denis Staunton in Toronto

President Mary McAleese has described the story of Toronto's reception of more than 38,000 Irish immigrants in 1847 as an important glimpse into the forgotten story of Protestants who suffered in the Famine and a challenge to prosperous countries today.

The President yesterday opened Ireland Park, a memorial to the 1,100 people who died during the arrival of Irish immigrants at a time when Toronto's population was only 20,000.

"You had a tiny city, a small city, overwhelmed in a very short period of time, utterly and absolutely overwhelmed and their response was the most remarkable, loving Christian response you could have imagined. They opened their hearts, they sacrificed themselves, they helped many of those 38,000 to recover from illness, to go on to live good lives," she said.

Earlier, Mrs McAleese attended an open-air concert at St Paul's Catholic School, in a disadvantaged district once dominated by Irish immigrants and now home to children from more than 40 countries. The children, few of whom had any Irish roots, played the tin whistle and fiddle and a steel band played Amhrán na bFhiann.

The President went on to St James' Cemetery, where more than 300 Irish Protestant Famine victims are buried in a common grave. The register records their names and ages, including Ann Smith (20), Elizabeth Ward (16), William Graham (4) and Jane Henry (5 months).

"We're very familiar with the Famine as a story of the deaths of a million Irish Catholics and the emigration of many more. But the story of the Protestant victims of the Famine is a smaller story and it's not so well known but it's uniquely captured here in Toronto," Mrs McAleese said.

"They travelled on the same ships, they arrived in the same conditions, they met the same deaths and they went on to the same future, those who survived. But they met here a place where Catholics and Protestants worked together respectfully, worked in their service, helped them to live if they could and helped them to die as best they could."

After a reception on board the Naval Service flagship LE Eithne, Mrs McAleese opened Ireland Park in a ceremony watched by thousands on video screens in a nearby park.

She said that the monument carries an important contemporary message: "It's very important to remind ourselves, those of us who are comfortable, those of us who are cosy, those of us who are prosperous, that we still have the same kind of moral responsibility that the people here faced in May of 1847 when they were confronted with the downstream consequences of cataclysmic famine. And they responded instantly, without questioning, with complete moral responsibility for the problem. We are faced with that same issue on our planet in our day and the question then has to be raised as to whether we face it with the same immediate sense of moral responsibility. And that, I think, is a very important question," she said.

[Donagh]

I seem to remember a good documentary a few years ago about a nurse who worked on Grosse Isle, near Quebec which has the largest famine graveyard outside Ireland. It was a quarantine island on the St Lawrence river that was ravaged by cholera.