Mickey Moran & John Morrison New Leitrim Management

Started by 45GoneShort, August 25, 2008, 10:10:28 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

moysider

Quote from: stephenite on August 26, 2008, 12:52:39 AM
Quote from: moysider on August 26, 2008, 12:40:28 AM
And even though I ll get killed by by own for saying this the Mayo players have far more regard for M&M than others I could name.

Whilst I've no doubt that would be true of some of the Mayo players, there were some senior players who had little or no respect for these lads.

The players decision to not inform of them of their plans before heading off down to Hill 16 before the semi final in 06 tells quite a tale.



Not sure about that Stephenite. The lads thet though up that move could not have told management. No management team could or would condone that particular stunt. And stunt was what it was. Grand we won in the end and it was great crack but you would have to be mental as a manager or coach to encourage  something like that. That was unmanageable.

Now I m sure some of the lads that came up with that plan will manage in the future and would not tolerate that kind of thing.

Yet I dont see that as disrespect for M&M. And at least they had the cop to go with it even though Moran at least was appalled at first, as he should have been.

The players did their own thing to be sure and to an extent management lost control at that time. This had a knock-on effect for the final as management did not have the authority to demand tactical changes from the players.

But the big damage to the effectiveness of the management came from the coolness between management and Board which had set in in early summer. It meant management could not afford to alienate any players because they were they only thing they had onside. Most media were negative about them from the start.


stephenite

Ah yeah but that incident was only example of it - and the most public one it was too. Only point I'm making is that I'm aware of some senior players that had little or no time for M & M

moysider


OK. I ll go along with that. I know a similar feeling exists with the current management.

stephenite

If you've got the guts of 30 guys on a panel - there'll always be some who don't like to listen what those in charge are saying, I suppose it's how you manage that is what counts.

mayoman dan

 Whilst I've no doubt that would be true of some of the Mayo players, there were some senior players who had little or no respect for these lads.
The players did their own thing to be sure and to an extent management lost control at that time. This had a knock-on effect for the final as management did not have the authority to demand tactical changes from the players
.
Please expand on this.What tactical changes would the management have in mind? Which senior players had no respect for M@M.

RedandGreenSniper

I think you're giving a very distorted version of events Moysider. As Stephenite says going down to the Hill was but one of several examples of players taking the reins that year.

In the dressing room after the Dublin game Heaney and Brady brought all the players into the warm-up area for a talk about what had to be done in the coming weeks. Management weren't told. Moran came into the dressing room then wondering where the players were and was visibly annoyed when told they were having a talk between themselves in the warm-up area. Another instance of being undermined. There were others too that I can't quite recall offhand.

Also, and I've said this before, the 2006 season was one where we did well but encountered a bit of luck too. Barely beat Leitrim, edged past Galway, struggled to beat a terrible Laois side after a replay and then produced a very good performance against Dublin, aided greatly by an implosion by the Dubs when they were seven points up. Then we were destroyed in the final. 2004 was a much better year for us I think.

Also the week before the All-Ireland final in a trial game in Enfield Barry Moran was put at full-forward for the possibles team on Heaney for the probables. A good idea, a sign that management recognised the need for Heaney to be able to do a decent job on Kieran Donaghy. But Barry Moran turns around and takes 2-4 off Heaney, were alarm bells not ringing then? BY the team the management realised the problem fully and sent on Brady in the final, the damage had been done and the game was over.

True there was tension between the management and county board all year and we could speculate all night about alterior motives from the county board. But there was also tension between M & M after the final and their partnership dissolved at the time, only coming back to work together now, two years on.

People say management were hard done by to be 'sacked' after getting to the All-Ireland final. Well they weren't quite sacked but thats another issue. Bottom line, after receiving a hiding like that in a final it is hard for the same management to continue. Maughan's Mayo were very lacklustre in 2005. A fresh voice can often be the best thing. Look at Cork this year with Conor Counihan. Kerry got hammered (in performance terms) by Tyrone in 2003. Paidi went, Jack O'Connor came in and they won the All-Ireland the following year. It can be very hard for management to remain on when their tacticals errors had been so clearly highlighted on the biggest stage of all.

I know people will say we've hardly set the world on fire since M & M's departure and O'Mahony's appointment but just because things have went only so-so since doesn't mean that they would have been any better had M & M been left in charge. Mayo were good in 2006 and were always going to slide afterwards. I think most people recognised that at the start of 2007, even before JOM started any of his annoying 'lets be patient' speeches. McDonald was the big mistake and one he erred on but it wasn't a particularly easy position to be in. But we've been over that before.

Best of luck to M & M in Leitrim. They're good guys
Mayo for Sam! Just don't ask me for a year

stephenite

Best of luck to them indeed. I am certainly not going to slight anything that they did or didn't do.

On any team in any county there are personality clashes amongst players and managers/backroom staff. It's human nature, however they really only come to the surface after a poor season or a bad loss.

Unfortunately, we've had more than our fair share of these bad losses over the past number of years, so we discuss them more.

RedandGreenSniper

Ya have to laugh sometimes though  :D

We don't half take over threads even when they have feck all to do with us.

The 'Sligo where do we go from here' thread earlier this season morphed into a discussion on parish lines in north Mayo with poor oul Sligonian nearly having an aneriusm! and here we are talking over a Leitrim thread talking about 2006   :D
Mayo for Sam! Just don't ask me for a year

JMohan

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on August 26, 2008, 05:08:54 AM
I think you're giving a very distorted version of events Moysider. As Stephenite says going down to the Hill was but one of several examples of players taking the reins that year.

In the dressing room after the Dublin game Heaney and Brady brought all the players into the warm-up area for a talk about what had to be done in the coming weeks. Management weren't told. Moran came into the dressing room then wondering where the players were and was visibly annoyed when told they were having a talk between themselves in the warm-up area. Another instance of being undermined. There were others too that I can't quite recall offhand.

Also, and I've said this before, the 2006 season was one where we did well but encountered a bit of luck too. Barely beat Leitrim, edged past Galway, struggled to beat a terrible Laois side after a replay and then produced a very good performance against Dublin, aided greatly by an implosion by the Dubs when they were seven points up. Then we were destroyed in the final. 2004 was a much better year for us I think.

Also the week before the All-Ireland final in a trial game in Enfield Barry Moran was put at full-forward for the possibles team on Heaney for the probables. A good idea, a sign that management recognised the need for Heaney to be able to do a decent job on Kieran Donaghy. But Barry Moran turns around and takes 2-4 off Heaney, were alarm bells not ringing then? BY the team the management realised the problem fully and sent on Brady in the final, the damage had been done and the game was over.

True there was tension between the management and county board all year and we could speculate all night about alterior motives from the county board. But there was also tension between M & M after the final and their partnership dissolved at the time, only coming back to work together now, two years on.

People say management were hard done by to be 'sacked' after getting to the All-Ireland final. Well they weren't quite sacked but thats another issue. Bottom line, after receiving a hiding like that in a final it is hard for the same management to continue. Maughan's Mayo were very lacklustre in 2005. A fresh voice can often be the best thing. Look at Cork this year with Conor Counihan. Kerry got hammered (in performance terms) by Tyrone in 2003. Paidi went, Jack O'Connor came in and they won the All-Ireland the following year. It can be very hard for management to remain on when their tacticals errors had been so clearly highlighted on the biggest stage of all.

I know people will say we've hardly set the world on fire since M & M's departure and O'Mahony's appointment but just because things have went only so-so since doesn't mean that they would have been any better had M & M been left in charge. Mayo were good in 2006 and were always going to slide afterwards. I think most people recognised that at the start of 2007, even before JOM started any of his annoying 'lets be patient' speeches. McDonald was the big mistake and one he erred on but it wasn't a particularly easy position to be in. But we've been over that before.

Best of luck to M & M in Leitrim. They're good guys

Those backroom stories paint a far more accurate view of what I heard was happening in Mayo back then.



The press release says Morrison has been at 5 teams?
Who were they? Armagh, Donegal, Derry, Mayo, ... and now Leitrim - that them? Personally I'd be asking questions if you've been with that many teams - You have to wonder about some of these managers and coaches who end up going to so many teams as well rather than staying with one - have they won anything at any of them?


BigJohnBrowne

#24
God, its amazing how posters pick up on words and make a fuss about them especially when taking them out of context.  Morrison has assisted '5 counties' as he is a master coach, one of a small number in the country. In addition he assists coaches in numerous clubs throughout Ireland, his role is coaching so spreading himself around is expected.    Bit of sour grapes about this.

Also would like evidence about the 'split' between the M&M's after leaving Mayo - don't think that's true. 

I'm thrilled that Leitrim have managed to win over these 2 fantastic men.  The press release shows that they intend starting at the club level and put in all their efforts from there upwards to the senior team.  Just what Leitrim needs to validate and compliment the existing coaching plans.

Well done Leitrim.  Here's to a bright future.   Media will have a fun day when Leitrim play Wicklow in the league with Micko one side and Mickey on the other  also Could be interesting if Leitrim draw Mayo in the Championship !!!

Its a breath of fresh air and a change that was badly needed in recent years.

Liatroim AbĂș

JMohan

Quote from: BigJohnBrowne on August 26, 2008, 08:16:09 AM
God, its amazing how posters pick up on words and make a fuss about them especially when taking them out of context.  Morrison has assisted '5 counties' as he is a master coach, one of a small number in the country.

What is a 'Master Coach'?

Quote from: BigJohnBrowne on August 26, 2008, 08:16:09 AMIn addition he assists coaches in numerous clubs throughout Ireland, his role is coaching so spreading himself around is expected.    Bit of sour grapes about this.
Assists?
What do you mean by sours grapes?

Quote from: BigJohnBrowne on August 26, 2008, 08:16:09 AMAlso would like evidence about the 'split' between the M&M's after leaving Mayo - don't think that's true. 
I have never heard of any split either

Quote from: BigJohnBrowne on August 26, 2008, 08:16:09 AMI'm thrilled that Leitrim have managed to win over these 2 fantastic men.  The press release shows that they intend starting at the club level and put in all their efforts from there upwards to the senior team.  Just what Leitrim needs to validate and compliment the existing coaching plans.

Well done Leitrim.  Here's to a bright future.   Media will have a fun day when Leitrim play Wicklow in the league with Micko one side and Mickey on the other  also Could be interesting if Leitrim draw Mayo in the Championship !!!
They are probably the best kind of coaches that Leitrim need alright

Barney

Best of luck to Mickey and John - they gave us a great Summer in 2006, and they way they were treated was a disgrace. Whatever their failings they were guests in our county and any divorce could have been handled with dignity. But that is not the way with the Mayo County Board bloodhounds - they couldn't wait to have their man in blue in the hot seat, and look at where we are now!

So next years championship starts off with New York, and then a semi-final with Leitrim!

Isn't it bizarre how infrequently the teams meet - in the last nearly 20 years I think we have only drawn each other twice!

Bensars

That appointment will please the skip hire companies of leitrim . In these days of economic burden and the credit crunch any additional business will probably be welcomed.!

On_the_Couch

A Field in the wilds of Leitrm, First Leitrim training session for 2009, In the middle, a Caldron boiling. Thunder.

Enter the three Mickeys (a bit of bardic licence here).

1 MICKEY. Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.
2 MICKEY. Thrice and once, the hedge-pig whin'd.
3 MICKEY. Harpier cries:-'tis time! 'tis time!

1 MICKEY. Round about the caldron go
In the poison'd entrails throw.-
Toad, that under cold stone,
Days and nights has thirty-one
Swelter'd venom sleeping got,
Boil thou first i' the charmed pot!
ALL. Double, double toil and trouble
Fire burn, and caldron bubble.

2 MICKEY. Fillet of a fenny snake,
In the caldron boil and bake
Eye of newt, and toe of frog,
Wool of bat, and tongue of dog,
Adder's fork, and blind-worm's sting,
Lizard's leg, and owlet's wing,-
For a charm of powerful trouble,
Like a hell-broth boil and bubble.
ALL. Double, double toil and trouble
Fire burn, and caldron bubble.

3 MICKEY. Scale of dragon tooth of wolf
Witches' mummy maw and gulf
Of the ravin'd salt-sea shark
Root of hemlock digg'd i the dark
Liver of blaspheming Jew
Gall of goat, and slips of yew
Sliver'd in the moon's eclipse
Nose of Turk, and Tartar's lips
Finger of birth-strangled babe
Ditch-deliver'd by a drab,-
Make the gruel thick and slab:
Add thereto a tiger's chaudron,
For the ingrediants of our caldron.
ALL. Double, double toil and trouble
Fire burn, and caldron bubble.

2 MICKEY. Cool it with a baboon's blood,
Then the charm is firm and good. ....

God help poor Leitrim and thanks to my friend Will for the above lines

magpie seanie

Leitrim must be favourites to win Division 4 now.