Author Topic: To unite or not to unite, that is the question.  (Read 6077 times)

muppet

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To unite or not to unite, that is the question.
« on: October 24, 2007, 12:09:06 PM »
 Given the large scale immigration into both parts of the island it is not inconceivable that the immigrants will decide the fate of unification in any future vote.

Assuming they are neutral now how do posters think they would vote in a future referendum and what would the issues be?

For the record here are a few off the top of my head:

Issues that might lead them to vote for 32 county Ireland:
* A lot of the Eastern Europeans are Catholic
* They see a thriving economy in the South with good prospects
* Sympathies might lay easier with the underdog against the Imperial power

Issues that might lead them to vote for the 6 remaining in the UK:
* No Health Service in the South
* A taste for vigilante killings among Republicans (not unknown on the other side)
* A government with a shocking record of corruption
* A state unable to deal with rising crime
* An infrastructure 20 years behind where it should be

It may come down to those voters and by my reckoning we (Nationalists) have an awful lot to do.
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his holiness nb

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Re: To unite or not to unite, that is the question.
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2007, 12:14:02 PM »
I'll give this thread a 15-20 page minimum!
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An Fear Rua

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Re: To unite or not to unite, that is the question.
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2007, 12:23:24 PM »
I'll give this thread a 15-20 page minimum!

The reported halfheartedness towards the nationalist ideals , on which the state was founded(another thread on here) of the native population of the 26 counties would be more of factor at the current moment, if that persists......

Eastern Europeans being catholics would be irrelevant in the 26 as religious divisions are rarely apparent these days?
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armaghniac

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Re: To unite or not to unite, that is the question.
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2007, 12:26:57 PM »
* A state unable to deal with rising crime

NI is exactly dealing well with rising crime either if you deal with other threads on this page

* An infrastructure 20 years behind where it should be

Firstly, if you presume it people in the North voting on this, the state of the M50 is neither here nor there. There is substantial investment in infrastructure and in the timescale for these types of votes the infrastructure will be quite good.
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T Fearon

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Re: To unite or not to unite, that is the question.
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2007, 12:48:02 PM »
Up North immigrants would be much more likely to be attacked from unionist bigots, and Unionist politicians are generally Tory like in their attitude to Johnny Foreigner (this in spite of Trimble's letter in Portuguese to all Portuguese in the Upper Bann constituency ahead of the last Westminster Election, which did him a fat lot of good ;D). So the immigrant vote for a united Ireland is pretty much in the bag

A lot of moderate Unionists (who care more about economics than religion) are warming to the idea of breaking the link with Britain as well.

Unity is merely a matter of time and I wouldn't rule out 2016

Farrandeelin

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Re: To unite or not to unite, that is the question.
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2007, 01:42:39 PM »
Jesus Tony, you must be the most optimistic person I've ever come across. That's despite all your predictions never come to pass! ;)
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brokencrossbar1

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Re: To unite or not to unite, that is the question.
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2007, 01:50:05 PM »
5times I think they would be allowed to vote as recent noises from FF is that they are looking to allow the franchise for general elections to be extended to immigrants as they are resident in the country and therefore have a right to have a say in what happens(I agree with this concept).  I would, however, doubt that they would be the deciding factor in a referendum as i would suggest they have no real interest in the history of the country and as the majority of them live in th 26 they are happy enopugh with their current lot i would say.

Up north, there may be a larger turnout obviously but the numbers at this stage probably are not high enough for it to be the difference.

For what it is worth, I agree with Tony here and have repeated on numerous occasions that I believe there will be a ceremonial event on the 100 year anniversary of the Easter Rising which will be the start of the "official" handover process.  De facto it will have happened economically and logistically in the next 9 years and many of the current systems eg health, revenue, will merge in so far as they will have a common strategy.  

The DUp language is changing and it is evident to me now looking from the outside in that they realise that they will be in a better state in a united Ireland.  Once the average unionists on the street have seen this they will soon follow, but there will be some form of concessions made to them.

oneillcup2007

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Re: To unite or not to unite, that is the question.
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2007, 01:55:14 PM »
I think we need to be careful here - theres potential for the huge pro unionist vote in the South to default and vote that the free state is returned to the UK.  Have any of you tried to reason with these people?  I refer you to the denationalisation of irish rugby thread.  Theres a lot of people ashamed to be Irish in and outside the GAA.   Add to that the huge Northern vote of those whose only claim to being British is that their parents told them that their grandparents were - a significant if poorly thought out choice of opinion, then I could see Britain actiually reclaiming Ireland in a number of years.  As they say all it talkes for no sense to prevail is for good people to do nothing...   

oneillcup2007

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Re: To unite or not to unite, that is the question.
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2007, 01:59:11 PM »
Mindye It would be nice for Ireland to be united in time for the centenary of the 1916 rising.   

Louth Exile

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Re: To unite or not to unite, that is the question.
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2007, 02:00:02 PM »
Would "immigrants" be allowed to vote in any such referendum?

I used to work at elections and if I remember correctly, citizens of other EU states who are resident in the ROI can vote in certain elections, but they do not have a vote in referendums (if I remember correctly)

I would agree with BC that they would not be that interested in it that they would be a deciding factor anyway. There was 21k pols who recently voted from the ROI in their home elections. This might suggest that these people still care what happens in their home country (naturally enough) and may not be here for the long term! (eg. construction industry slows, unemployment rises)

I think we need to be careful here - theres potential for the huge pro unionist vote in the South to default and vote that the free state is returned to the UK.  Have any of you tried to reason with these people? 
:D Where is this huge unionist vote in the south? the 26 counties were changed from a free state to a republic a long time ago.
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Tankie

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Re: To unite or not to unite, that is the question.
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2007, 02:06:54 PM »
I wouldnt be too worried about the imagrants, do the people in the south want to unite. Alot of people in the South see the North as a ecconomic drain on the British govenerment and would be asking the question on whether we want to take that over. I would be all up for a United Ireland but the ecconomics would have to be right.
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Goats Do Shave

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Re: To unite or not to unite, that is the question.
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2007, 02:31:29 PM »
I wouldnt be too worried about the imagrants, do the people in the south want to unite. Alot of people in the South see the North as a ecconomic drain on the British govenerment and would be asking the question on whether we want to take that over. I would be all up for a United Ireland but the ecconomics would have to be right.

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An Fear Rua

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Re: To unite or not to unite, that is the question.
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2007, 02:36:39 PM »

Oh ai! - I'm all right Jack!

- Cheers!  :'(


you sound surprised ???? surely this isnt news to you
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lynchbhoy

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Re: To unite or not to unite, that is the question.
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2007, 02:39:02 PM »
I wouldnt be too worried about the imagrants, do the people in the south want to unite. Alot of people in the South see the North as a ecconomic drain on the British govenerment and would be asking the question on whether we want to take that over. I would be all up for a United Ireland but the ecconomics would have to be right.

Oh ai! - I'm all right Jack!

- Cheers!  :'(

thats the common consensus down here Goats.

Would be much of the same opinion even myself ! !

however the responsiblity has to be taken on by EU, Brit etc gov to inject huge cash into NI to keep it afloat and promote foreign investment/industry when transferring ownership back to the rest of Ireland.
I certainly dont want to be paying my considerable tax money to keep those work shy civil servants, claim loving psni/ruc and dole scrounging layabouts from NI in the lazy life  they are accustomed to.

Tankie may be mentally retarded, but he is on the ball here in relation to what most free-staters think !
 :D
..........

Tankie

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Re: To unite or not to unite, that is the question.
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2007, 02:39:23 PM »
I wouldnt be too worried about the imagrants, do the people in the south want to unite. Alot of people in the South see the North as a ecconomic drain on the British govenerment and would be asking the question on whether we want to take that over. I would be all up for a United Ireland but the ecconomics would have to be right.

Oh ai! - I'm all right Jack!

- Cheers!  :'(


Whats the point in us all being broke. We have seen how badly Germany struggled with reunification. Unification is something that I would want to take place but not if it is going to set us all back years. I would also be looking for a 70% Yes vote from the north as a mininum because everyone would need to be on board for it to work.
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