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How many years has mcgeaney been in charge of Armagh, 11 I think , how many times has he got to the last four ? He won it last year am I right in saying that's their only year they reached semi under his leadership, if there was ever an example of history is written by the victors .

If Tyrone beat Kerry on Saturday, it will make Armagh's capitulation against Kerry look even worse, especially given how powerless the line seemed to be when the game was in the melting pot.

The next few years could get very interesting, especially if there is no more silverware delivered.
McGeeney seems such an addict that I can definitely see there being a chance of him over-staying his welcome.

I can't see either of these teams having any impact in Sam next year. Kildare probably have more potential.

There is a huge need for a third tier with a reduction of teams in Sam and the Tailteann and letting Scottish, English and USA based regions into it (the 3rd tier). A reduction to 12-12-8 (8 + others) would provide three competitive competitions.

I think it's going to take a few years of the current setup before the bottom teams in the Tailteann start looking for a third tier.

I don't know how much demand there would be for letting Scottish, English and (especially USA) based regions into a 3rd tier though given the cost and logistics they would bring with them. I'd say the current Junior and Ny in the Tailteann suits them fairly fine for the time being.

Also I think the bottom Sam/Upper Tailteann teams are not going to be in any huge rush to change things any time soon. I could see a lot of those county boards thinking there wouldn't be a whole lot of upside and would be a lot of downsides in changing from the current system e.g. no glamour ties (with crowds) against the top team.

To cut even at Croke park, they used to talk about having to get it half full.

Back in the noughties it was something like 31,000 people to break even.

What is the cost though. Surely they only open bars and areas needed as per the crowd. So I assume they cover it whatever the crowd.
For small games thry only open lower hogan.

Talking about a specific attendance break-even cost for a stadium the size and nature of Croke Park is pretty much an absolutely terrible way to look at the issue given how much the attendance can fluctuate over the course of a year at different events and how many fixed annual costs and variable costs the stadium would have to cover. Given how prices change, the figure probably literally changes from day-to-day. It's just an absolutely terrible way to look at the question of a stadium's profitability.

It makes far more sense and is far easier given the nature of the stadium "business" (given financial reporting requirements) to look at the annual figures.

Some info from last year's financial accounts regarding Croke Park.

Contribution from our match day activities was disappointing. Total contribution at €1.69m in 2024 was down €140K on 2023 at €1.83m. We hosted 31 match days in 2024, compared to 36 in 2023, with match day attendances falling from 948,000 in 2023 to 865,000 in 2024

So basically Croke Park made a profit of €1.69m in terms of its core business of hosting GAA games in 2024 off the back of 31 match days with a total attendance at those matches of 865,000.

When you compare the attendances of those games at Croke Park versus the absolute best case scenario for annual match attendances at Casement [The attendances for the whole of the Ulster Championship has been around the 100k for a good few years] the capacity for the core operations to turn a profit look severly challenging.

As referenced at the outset, our non-core activities, generated a contribution of €8.3m in 2024. In comparison we had no non-core events in 2023. In May we hosted the legendary Bruce Springsteen and in August, Coldplay delivered one of the great series of evenings held in the stadium, a concert sequence, that put us in the Top 10 worldwide stadium venues in 2024, as listed by Polestar. Not to disappoint, Leinster brought a full house to the stadium for their Champions Cup semi-final

The difference between the two years is obviously stark - 2024 was probably cost to a perfect year for non-core activites compared to 2023 which was a complete zero - the issue is that none of these activites are in any way reliable. I'm convinced that Casement would be a lot closer to Pairc Ui Chaoimh compared to Croke Park in terms of attracting events.

I only took a fairly quick look at the accounts and I definitely don't feel like I have a full handle on the exact nature of the business of Croke Park. Frankly this would take more time that I'm willing to spend looking at previous years' financial reports and looking at the various subsidary companies that make up the Páirc an Chrócaigh Group of Companies.

These are all the companies that make up the Páirc an Chrócaigh Group of Companies

- Páirc an Chrócaigh CTR. The principal stadium trading company. PCT posted an operating surplus before interest,
distributions, and exceptional items, at €15.1m for the period 2024 an increase of €3.3m on 2023 at €11.8m, a
27.9% improvement.
- Brindare Ltd. This company is responsible for income and expenditure associated with our meeting and events
business. The business recorded a 77.8% improvement in room hire and food and beverage revenues.
- Gambetto / Mercury Investments/ Croke Park Motors – are vehicles we use to hold our property assets. As
expected, rental income for the 12-month period 2024 is largely unchanged on prior year.
- Lauris Ltd. This entity accounts for our pitch farm which is located in North County Dublin.
- Clonliffe Property Investments – this company holds our new hotel which is currently under construction.
- National Handball and Croke Park Community Centre CLG – we hold a 50% interest in this JV in respect of the
handball centre to the East of the stadium. During the period, PCT's share of the of the joint venture, NHCPCC,
losses for the year were €124K.
- For completeness two other companies Le Cheile Promotions Ltd and Musaem CLG CTR, are related by common
directors but do not form part of the consolidated figures.

I'm not really sure how that Brindare in particular fits into things.

Also I'm a bit suspicious when I see something like

The business recorded a 77.8% improvement in room hire and food and beverage revenues.

when there's no actual Euro amount provided.

There could be some intra-group transfers and stuff like that going on - this was very much a quick and dirty look to see what sort of basic info I could find out about how Croke Park is doing.

What I couldn't figure out is how these core and non-core activites ended up contributing to a situation where the Group of Companies had a profit, before interest, tax, CLG distribution and exceptional items, for 2024 of €21.3m and contributed a dividend of €16m to CLG (the overall main GAA financial company) especially when the profit increased so much compared to 2023 but the dividend only increased by €1million compared to 2023.

The directors of the Páirc an Chrócaigh Group of Companies are pleased to report a strong set of results for 2024. PCT Consolidated Group turnover, for 2024, at €59.7m represents an increase of €17.7m, or 42% on 2023 at €42m. A significant contribution to the results was from non-core activities, emphasising the importance, in particular, of concerts to the overall stadium performance.

PCT Consolidated Group profit, before interest, tax, CLG distribution and exceptional items, for 2024 was €21.3m, an increase of 85% on 2023 at €11.5m. The strong performance facilitated a dividend payment of €16m to CLG, marginally up on 2023 at €15m and underlines the importance of the stadium  in the furtherance of CLG ambitions.

My overall thoughts looking at this limited information is that spending £270 million plus on Casement is just an absolutely terrible idea, bordering on criminal neglience.

Kevin O'Donovan trying to sell the future of Pairc Ui Chaoimh as a municipal stadium which is basically code for taxpayers money.

Also yet more confirmation that there is basically no way to turn a profit on ordinary operations of the stadium due to the running costs.

When you consider how the current version of Casement has the scope to be an even bigger financial disaster than PuC it's mind-boggling that there is anyone still speaking publicly about being in favour of the current version.

"My vision is for it to be a municipal stadium. I think stadiums are expensive public goods that need public support and funding and need to be multi-sport. SuperValu Páirc Uí Chaoimh wasn't built for that, but this is our way of maybe retrofitting a little bit of that. Building multi-sport training facilities in the future will be harder.

"This stadium is actually used far more than people actually know because we've all the club programmes, several inter-county teams and the camogie and ladies football are in here now. But, is it used 365 days a year? No, should it be used 365 days a year? It kind of has to be to pay the bills, the rates, the energy costs and so on.

https://www.echolive.ie/corksport/arid-41662664.html

The old momentum breaker was the mystery injury, but that one doesn't get used anymore.

Philly McMahon on the Indo podcast suggested starting a bit of a schmozzle - nothing serious, just a bit of handbags stuff to break the momentum! 

Says it all that Philly's response to a situation like this is to cheat.

However, the way Galway tore them open with direct running when they got those two goals in quick succession would worry me from a Meath perspective, you could see Donegal making hay as that is their bread and butter. Easy to say on here, luckily football is played on grass so will see what happens.

Meath have conceded a fair few goals to direct running besides just the Galway game.

Am I right in the below...

The below is the breach of their own contract whereby he was cleared by the DRA and GAA. Then this agreement was indirectly reneged on by the email...

Mr Gallagher wants a declaration that the defendants acted in breach of contract and due process when they, in effect, disciplined him on January 5th, thereby failing to be bound by a determination of the Dispute Resolution Authority in February 2024, and associated damages.

And then this is directly in relation to the Naas gig - where he will need to come out with loss of earning...

He is further seeking a declaration, and damages, that the defendants wrongfully induced or procured Naas to breach its lawful contractual obligations arising from a contract "made orally" between him and the Kildare club on or about late December 2024.

Not a lawyer but just reading the bit about Naas breaching its lawful contractual obligations, makes me wonder  if the court ruled in his favour on that if it would go close to establishing in law that any club manager who gets money (don't know if expenses versus more than expenses would make a difference) is in de facto employment (with all the rules/regulations/protections that come with something being legally classified as a job e.g. rules on working conditions/working hours/pensions/holiday rights/dismissal. Could potentially be opening up a huge minefield for the GAA as a whole.

Was it Tyrone who allowed Kerry wallop them in league in Tralee that time?

The biggest issue was the rules changing, if you dont play attacking football you lose.

Kerry did beat Armagh by 10 points in the league this year so I don't know how much Armagh could have done on that front?

I'm getting a bit fed up with the replies from Milltown Row2 - he seems unable to take on board others' views.
Nobody is hammering Clare - they have benefited from an unfair system but cannot be blamed.

I'll repeat my point:
In last 3 years only one of six counties, Westmeath in 2024, advanced to the Sam Maguire Cup after gaining promotion from Division 3.
There is no fairness in a system that allows Division 3 and 4 counties that reach Connacht or Munster Finals take the place of the NFL Division 3 winners or runners-up who finished above them in NFL.
The 2 teams promoted from Division 3 should automatically qualify for that year's Sam Maguire Cup.

The thing is I can't see any of the provincial councils being willing to "discredit" the provincial championships by "giving up" more places to the league. League position is obviously fairer compared to the luck of getting a handy provincial draw - if you look back over the various provincial championships over the years a lot of teams ended up getting to the provincial finals by turning in one or two decent performances and there was some years that teams ended up in some of the provincial finals by basically being the least shit of the sides on their side of the draw as opposed to being anywhere close to the being in the top 8 teams in the country.
The harsh reality is that because the provincial councils control such a big chunk of the votes at Congress  that the chances to any switch to favour the national league is remote.

The financials are at the stage now where they make so little sense that anyone who is still in favour of building the 34,000 version at Casement, should be looking at instant dismissal from any role or position involving having any responsibilty for any spending whatsoever.

If a private business announced it was going spending £200 million plus to increase it's capacity to hold matches by a total of 5,000 for one day a year, I'd imagine law enforcement would descend on the business with lightning speed.

Really pedestrian game.

Both sides look miles off being All-Ireland contenders based on that half's performance.

Dublin probably happy enough to be only 2 points down.

Sorry, hold up.....what happens the £170 million in this case??

Well the UK Government money is contingent on the rest of the money being found for this project. It isn't a blank cheque £50m to spend on any stadium at the site or at least that was my reading of what was said on Wednesday. So it's £120m for another stadium (and does the Irish Government money remain committed in that case?)

So if you redesign another stadium and take it through planning and the courts that isn't built for another 5-7 years based on previous experience, what's the cost of that going to be in terms of what we know about construction costs at the minute?

It's a bit frustrating to hear people talk about throwing up a 25,000 capacity stadium as if it can be started tomorrow and be done cheaply in a year or two. That's not the case.

Can Antrim or the GAA wait to 2032 for a stadium at the site?
[/quote]

The reality is that if the GAA say they are going to build a smaller stadium at the same site when the current planning permission expires contributions from London, Dublin and Stormont aren't going to be revoked.

People keep pointing to PuC and lack of concerts while forgetting Cork is much smaller than Belfast, less accessible and less attractive for major concerts.

Belfast is far more similar to Cork than compared to Dublin in terms of attracting concerts.

This is what the CEO of Cork GAA said a few month's back at a speech in PuC

"Concerts in this building are challenging because we're a mid size venue. We're too big for Live at the Marquee, we're too small for Coldplay. We talk to the promoters every day we are seeing now if we can move the dial a little bit and go into smaller events and use car parks and use 4G and put marquees up on the pitch and so on.

"So lest anyone think we are idle, you are at the discretion of the major acts' touring diaries; it's not your diary it's theirs, and we play games for a significant period of the year. Concerts are the only thing that will move the dial on debt here. Everything else really is to keep the lights on."

PuC has no concerts this year, one Bruce Springsteen concert last year and none the year before that.

There is the possibility that Casement is much more successful at attracting concerts compared to PuC but the possibility isn't that great. I haven't heard any sort of decent argument why the Ulster Council would be much more successful at convincing promoters to hold concerts in Casememt compared to the Cork County Board convincing promoters to pay to use PuC.

Kerry v Meath - Meath by 3
Roscommon v Cork - cork by 3
Dublin v Derry - Dublin by 6
Galway v Armagh - Galway by 2
Louth v Clare - clare by 4
Monaghan v Down - Monaghan by 6
Donegal v Mayo - mayo  by 4
Tyrone v Cavan - draw

With both Cliffords, Geaney, DOC and Barry Dan out, that Meath prediction might be right and good value at 12/1

All injured?  That could be interesting, not just  for this weekend

A Kerryman I was talking to this morning said this week's Kerryman said DOC, Barry Dan, Geaney and Paudie won't play. He said the Kerryman (as a local paper) tends to be very reliable with injuries and stuff like that and that DC and O'Beaglaoich are also rumoured to be out. Said the talk is Barry Dan is gone for the year and it's very doubtful whether DOC will feature anytime soon. Could just be yerra but if all that lot are missing it could be a very different 26 named and could be a serious blow to Kerry's chances at Sam.

If all six are out Meath will fancy their chances of finishing top of the group, any team with injuries won't want three games in consecutive weeks which is what Kerry will likely get if they drop into 2nd place.


Possible starting 15 if all six are out?

Shane Ryan
Tom O'Sullivan Jason Foley  Dylan Casey
Gavin White Mike Breen Paul Murphy
Joe O'Connor Mark O'Shea
Micheal Burns Sean O'Shea Graham O'Sullivan
Killian Spillane  Dylan Geaney Tony Brosnan

Meath are missing players also. All the talk about kerry missing midfielders Meath are down 4 midfielders. Meath will be playing with their third or fourth choice midfield. Meath are missing Ronan Jones, Jack Flynn, Jack kinlough and Conor Gray missing all midfielders. Jones, Flynn,Kinlough are out for the rest of the year. Jack Flynn is Meath best midfielder, Ronan Jones is Meaths real leader around mid field area, only playet on team at his peak at 28. While kinlough who started ad third man midfielder in 8 games in a row the league and start of championship was excellent is also out. While Conor Gray who was outstanding in Tailtean cup winning campaign is coming back after three months in hospital pneumonia and injury after injury is only now able to take his place on bench. Meath will have three man midfield of veteran 34 year old Brian Menton who struggles to last 70 minutes and past his best. Adam O Neill will partner him who is defender basically a full back. Meath third man midfielder is 20 year old Conor Duke. No one mentioning Meath are missing best midfielders Flynn and Jones and another midfield starter on 40 kinlough. Not one mentioning in this media. Meath are down 4 midfielders and have to play defender at midfield.

I'm actually surprised at how litte coverage this game has gotten in the GAA media this week. Loads of the pods and stuff seem to be writing it off as an automatic win for Kerry paying it very little mention.

That Kerry starting 15 looks reasonable - the issue is that bench looks fairly inexperienced for the most part. I'd say there are a fair few there with only limited enough championship game time.

With be interesting to see how the midfield goes with both sides missing players there.