The Many Faces of US Politics...

[PadraicHenryPearse]

doesnt agree with everything.... its not a tax hike etc. its supporting and arming a genocide.

If Trump DIDN'T support the genocide, you'd have a valid point.

But he does, and he will offer even less support for their cause when this comes to settlement.

And there are plenty of other issues way more important than a tax hike or cut at stake here for Americans.

I personally would never vote for someone who supports arming a genocide. I would never even consider it.

That's your choice and legitimate option (presumably) living on the island of Ireland.

is it not an option for you?

Not as much as it is in Ireland, no, where sympathy towards Palestine is a mainstream position.

Trump is unlikely to win NY, but I'd still be reluctant to take that risk and, given that he is even worse on Gaza, other issues are also extremely important to me in voting against him (taxes is not one of them).

If I was living out west in the deep red state my wife is from, my vote against Trump would definitely be completely irrelevant and I'd be freer to register a wasted protest vote on a single issue.

However, even if I did throw away that vote (and it would be wasted at this moment in time)  I would still be contributing cash to Harris and hoping for a Dem victory.

so it is an option but you choose not only to vote for but to finance a supporter of arming the genocide of Palestinians.

In your simplistic perspective and spin, yes.

It is very simple alright, you are financing and supporting someone who is happy to support a genocide of Palestinians but there is no Spin.

it's actually worst than that, she and Biden could stop the genocide and they choose not too and you are contributing financially to that party.

The spin is in how you present the genocide as the only issue pertinent to my contributions and vote.

you'd think it would be the most important issue, Harris supports and is and will arm the murder of thousands of innocent  people!!!

 

Once again, given that her opponent is even worse, she is the better alternative and at least will fight for the Palestinians way more than Trump will in deciding the future. So on the balance, other issues such as Trump's authoritarian tendencies and his support of the movement of the US in an anti-democratic, christian nationalist direction matter just as much to me in choosing who to support.

If you wouldn't vote, that's your choice, but you would then surrender any right to complaint about what Trump would bring on.

why would I surrender any right to complain about whatever genocider is elected??? I didn't vote for either and I have nothing to do with either winning or losing.

take the hypothetical scenario that there are 2 candidates, each have a policy of killing 10,000 people but their other 99 polices from tax to climate etc. vary... 

I choose not to vote for anyone that had a policy to kill 10,000. You would and you financially support one of them!!!

[J70]

Yes, because the 99 other policies affect and will affect numerous people in good ways and very bad as well. Palestine is not the be all and end all of what the US presidential election will mean for the country and the world.

[Itchy]

Yes, because the 99 other policies affect and will affect numerous people in good ways and very bad as well. Palestine is not the be all and end all of what the US presidential election will mean for the country and the world.

This is what you vote for, precision assassinations of bloggers, journalists. I could put an article up like this every day for a decade.

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/palestinian-tiktok-star-19-who-shared-details-of-gaza-life-under-siege-is-killed-by-israeli-airstrike/a1022211519.html

Shame on you

[trueblue1234]

Its not even possible that Trump could be worse than Biden on Gaza. How could it be worse?

Very easily.

The USAF and USN join in with airstrikes.

The place is flattened already. You're simply trying to convince yourself there is a difference. Of there is a difference it's microscopic and negligible.

No. Just pointing out after you asked how could it be worse, how it could be worse...


Anyway, widening the argument your making out - if, as you say, both are equally bad on Gaza - then should anyone looking to vote for the two mainstream options not compare them on their other merits?

no, they should not be voting for or supporting people who support and arm a genocide.

Look I think little of Biden, and Harris feels like a similar puppet. But the reality is that it's a 2 horse race. And not voting or voting for outside the top 2 is a guaranteed wasted vote. Therefore imo if your basing your vote solely on the Genocide in Palestine, would you not be obligated to vote for the least worst option. Even if you didn't fully support the candidate? Surely that would be the best thing to do? And while I Agree the democrats have failed badly in Palestine, I 100% think Trump would have been worse. All be it marginally.
And that's my opinion from afar, without any inside track on US politics.

I dont care if a party or candidate cut all my taxes or even gave me free money. I would not vote for a someone or a party that is arming a genocide.. 

So as a principle, you'd allow a worse option in? Far enough, but I don't think that's the best option for Palestine imo. In fact the opposite.

I wouldn't  allow either in. Both support arming the genocide, they are equally are terrible as each other.

You don't have the power to stop both. But it is within your control to try and prevent one of them. Therefore stopping the worst option getting in, would be the best for Palestine. That wouldn't stop you protesting and posting your views on-line as well. But keeping Trump out is definitely in the interest of Palestinians. So I'd swallow my principles for their sake. That's my take. In the real world.

[Rossfan]

Sadly no Country in the Workd seems to give 2 hoots about the Palestinians☹️

[Itchy]

Its not even possible that Trump could be worse than Biden on Gaza. How could it be worse?

Very easily.

The USAF and USN join in with airstrikes.

The place is flattened already. You're simply trying to convince yourself there is a difference. Of there is a difference it's microscopic and negligible.

No. Just pointing out after you asked how could it be worse, how it could be worse...


Anyway, widening the argument your making out - if, as you say, both are equally bad on Gaza - then should anyone looking to vote for the two mainstream options not compare them on their other merits?

no, they should not be voting for or supporting people who support and arm a genocide.

Look I think little of Biden, and Harris feels like a similar puppet. But the reality is that it's a 2 horse race. And not voting or voting for outside the top 2 is a guaranteed wasted vote. Therefore imo if your basing your vote solely on the Genocide in Palestine, would you not be obligated to vote for the least worst option. Even if you didn't fully support the candidate? Surely that would be the best thing to do? And while I Agree the democrats have failed badly in Palestine, I 100% think Trump would have been worse. All be it marginally.
And that's my opinion from afar, without any inside track on US politics.

I dont care if a party or candidate cut all my taxes or even gave me free money. I would not vote for a someone or a party that is arming a genocide.. 

So as a principle, you'd allow a worse option in? Far enough, but I don't think that's the best option for Palestine imo. In fact the opposite.

I wouldn't  allow either in. Both support arming the genocide, they are equally are terrible as each other.

You don't have the power to stop both. But it is within your control to try and prevent one of them. Therefore stopping the worst option getting in, would be the best for Palestine. That wouldn't stop you protesting and posting your views on-line as well. But keeping Trump out is definitely in the interest of Palestinians. So I'd swallow my principles for their sake. That's my take. In the real world.

You stop one genocide supporter and you give a mandate to the other. Harris says she will continue to sell weapons to Israel. Voting for her means you give her the mandate to do that.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Yes, because the 99 other policies affect and will affect numerous people in good ways and very bad as well. Palestine is not the be all and end all of what the US presidential election will mean for the country and the world.

not supporting someone helping/supporting and arming someone else commit a genocide should be the be all and end all. 

[Look-Up!]

An attack on Harris is support for Trump. Every Democrat who stays at home in this election may as well be voting for Trump. The rednecks are voting.

Sounds like Bush doctrine. You're either with us or with the terrorists. Ironic you should disparage the rednecks in your next sentence.

There are others running other than the 2 you mentioned you know.

Protest votes for third parties do little to advance an agenda in a US presidential election. Especially this year, when the three independent candidates are all left-leaning and will pull from Harris, not Trump.

But let's say you vote for Chase Oliver, whose platform opposes Netanyahu's war in Gaza - where does his plan to abolish the federal reserve feature in one's thinking?

More importantly, what good will it do for the people of Gaza? Will President Trump, who benefited from your protest vote, suddenly find a modicum of humanity in his opinion of the Palestinians and bring that to bear on his party and Netanyahu?

This stuff has to come from the grass roots.

Who knows what Trump would do. Everyone was predicting WWIII and the end of America in 2016. Chicken Licken springs to mind. Fact of the matter Biden is in charge with this shitshow going on in Palestine and Harris fully supports it. People have every right to be disgusted.

Nothing wrong with a protest vote, shows an appetite for change. But media tell ye that this is the most important crucial election ever, future of America is at stake, protest vote destructive to America blah blah blah. They say this EVER 4 years and ye believe it EVERY 4 YEARS.

Not everything has to be a zero sum game. Protest vote now might be pretty useless but it can sow the seeds for the future generations. As the saying goes, a society grows great when old men plant trees under whose shade they will never sit.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Its not even possible that Trump could be worse than Biden on Gaza. How could it be worse?

Very easily.

The USAF and USN join in with airstrikes.

The place is flattened already. You're simply trying to convince yourself there is a difference. Of there is a difference it's microscopic and negligible.

No. Just pointing out after you asked how could it be worse, how it could be worse...


Anyway, widening the argument your making out - if, as you say, both are equally bad on Gaza - then should anyone looking to vote for the two mainstream options not compare them on their other merits?

no, they should not be voting for or supporting people who support and arm a genocide.

Look I think little of Biden, and Harris feels like a similar puppet. But the reality is that it's a 2 horse race. And not voting or voting for outside the top 2 is a guaranteed wasted vote. Therefore imo if your basing your vote solely on the Genocide in Palestine, would you not be obligated to vote for the least worst option. Even if you didn't fully support the candidate? Surely that would be the best thing to do? And while I Agree the democrats have failed badly in Palestine, I 100% think Trump would have been worse. All be it marginally.
And that's my opinion from afar, without any inside track on US politics.

I dont care if a party or candidate cut all my taxes or even gave me free money. I would not vote for a someone or a party that is arming a genocide.. 

So as a principle, you'd allow a worse option in? Far enough, but I don't think that's the best option for Palestine imo. In fact the opposite.

I wouldn't  allow either in. Both support arming the genocide, they are equally are terrible as each other.

You don't have the power to stop both. But it is within your control to try and prevent one of them. Therefore stopping the worst option getting in, would be the best for Palestine. That wouldn't stop you protesting and posting your views on-line as well. But keeping Trump out is definitely in the interest of Palestinians. So I'd swallow my principles for their sake. That's my take. In the real world.

by voting for Harris you endorse her policies, the f**king real world won't change when people have no principles and turn a blind eye to a genocide.. either with the policies of genociders

[J70]

Yes, because the 99 other policies affect and will affect numerous people in good ways and very bad as well. Palestine is not the be all and end all of what the US presidential election will mean for the country and the world.

not supporting someone helping/supporting and arming someone else commit a genocide should be the be all and end all. 

You're entitled to your opinion. As am I.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Yes, because the 99 other policies affect and will affect numerous people in good ways and very bad as well. Palestine is not the be all and end all of what the US presidential election will mean for the country and the world.

not supporting someone helping/supporting and arming someone else commit a genocide should be the be all and end all. 

You're entitled to your opinion. As am I.

ofcourse, but your opinion is that voting for and giving money to someone who supports and arms a genocide is fine.

[J70]

Yes, because the 99 other policies affect and will affect numerous people in good ways and very bad as well. Palestine is not the be all and end all of what the US presidential election will mean for the country and the world.

not supporting someone helping/supporting and arming someone else commit a genocide should be the be all and end all. 

You're entitled to your opinion. As am I.

ofcourse, but your opinion is that voting for and giving money to someone who supports and arms a genocide is fine.

Yes, based on the overall picture. But me and you are going around in circles at this point. 

[J70]

An attack on Harris is support for Trump. Every Democrat who stays at home in this election may as well be voting for Trump. The rednecks are voting.

Sounds like Bush doctrine. You're either with us or with the terrorists. Ironic you should disparage the rednecks in your next sentence.

There are others running other than the 2 you mentioned you know.

Protest votes for third parties do little to advance an agenda in a US presidential election. Especially this year, when the three independent candidates are all left-leaning and will pull from Harris, not Trump.

But let's say you vote for Chase Oliver, whose platform opposes Netanyahu's war in Gaza - where does his plan to abolish the federal reserve feature in one's thinking?

More importantly, what good will it do for the people of Gaza? Will President Trump, who benefited from your protest vote, suddenly find a modicum of humanity in his opinion of the Palestinians and bring that to bear on his party and Netanyahu?

This stuff has to come from the grass roots.

Who knows what Trump would do. Everyone was predicting WWIII and the end of America in 2016. Chicken Licken springs to mind. Fact of the matter Biden is in charge with this shitshow going on in Palestine and Harris fully supports it. People have every right to be disgusted.

Nothing wrong with a protest vote, shows an appetite for change. But media tell ye that this is the most important crucial election ever, future of America is at stake, protest vote destructive to America blah blah blah. They say this EVER 4 years and ye believe it EVERY 4 YEARS.

Not everything has to be a zero sum game. Protest vote now might be pretty useless but it can sow the seeds for the future generations. As the saying goes, a society grows great when old men plant trees under whose shade they will never sit.

We already know Trump's attitude towards the Palestinians from his first term. We know Trump's attitude towards Muslims in general and towards basically everyone whose support he doesn't rely on to achieve and maintain power. We know his attitude towards Putin and Ukraine.

As for this election, Trump is pretty clear about what he intends to do on multiple fronts. That stuff matters a lot too to those of us who live in the country.

And sorry, but I'm not a one issue voter, whether it's abortion, or guns, or f**king Netanyahu.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

An attack on Harris is support for Trump. Every Democrat who stays at home in this election may as well be voting for Trump. The rednecks are voting.

Sounds like Bush doctrine. You're either with us or with the terrorists. Ironic you should disparage the rednecks in your next sentence.

There are others running other than the 2 you mentioned you know.

Protest votes for third parties do little to advance an agenda in a US presidential election. Especially this year, when the three independent candidates are all left-leaning and will pull from Harris, not Trump.

But let's say you vote for Chase Oliver, whose platform opposes Netanyahu's war in Gaza - where does his plan to abolish the federal reserve feature in one's thinking?

More importantly, what good will it do for the people of Gaza? Will President Trump, who benefited from your protest vote, suddenly find a modicum of humanity in his opinion of the Palestinians and bring that to bear on his party and Netanyahu?

This stuff has to come from the grass roots.

Who knows what Trump would do. Everyone was predicting WWIII and the end of America in 2016. Chicken Licken springs to mind. Fact of the matter Biden is in charge with this shitshow going on in Palestine and Harris fully supports it. People have every right to be disgusted.

Nothing wrong with a protest vote, shows an appetite for change. But media tell ye that this is the most important crucial election ever, future of America is at stake, protest vote destructive to America blah blah blah. They say this EVER 4 years and ye believe it EVERY 4 YEARS.

Not everything has to be a zero sum game. Protest vote now might be pretty useless but it can sow the seeds for the future generations. As the saying goes, a society grows great when old men plant trees under whose shade they will never sit.

We already know Trump's attitude towards the Palestinians from his first term. We know Trump's attitude towards Muslims in general and towards basically everyone whose support he doesn't rely on to achieve and maintain power. We know his attitude towards Putin and Ukraine.

As for this election, Trump is pretty clear about what he intends to do on multiple fronts. That stuff matters a lot too to those of us who live in the country.

And sorry, but I'm not a one issue voter, whether it's abortion, or guns, or f**king Netanyahu.

it's not one issue,it's the minimum bar anyone should meet before you consider voting for them, not to support a genocide. You'd think it would be an easy bar to meet for the morally superior democrats...

[J70]

We've covered this.