I was talking to an old friend that used to play for Mullaghbrack GFC which sadly folded years ago, the Ladies have a team and they play at their lovely wee ground just outside Markethill, he claims the GAA are trying to claim the property as their own as the club no longer exists, when the ladies are mentioned he tells me the line from HQ is simply the the ladies team is not part of the equation, that vexes me as they just had 48,000 plus at the ladies senior final and had no problem taking the kesh!
I have no idea if their claim has any validity but it appears that there is going to be a legal battle over this situation, has anyone any idea how things work when clubs fold pertaining to their assets etc? In the case I am talking about the community owned the property outright however received some funding from the GAA.
The GAA generally shies away from funding community-owned grounds. They left Ballymote GAA's pitch in an awful state because the club didn't own it.
Surely if the GAA owns it,it would be better than anyone else.There were far too many rural clubs in a radius of seven miles to be sustainable,Mullabrack,Clady,Lisummon,and Poyntzpass O'Hanlons
Quote from: T Fearon on September 30, 2017, 05:16:24 PM
Surely if the GAA owns it,it would be better than anyone else.There were far too many rural clubs in a radius of seven miles to be sustainable,Mullabrack,Clady,Lisummon,and Poyntzpass O'Hanlons
Stop trying so hard to get a reaction.
The gaa didn't "get the cash". The ladies has is a separate entity to the gaa by their own choice. They have their own rules and own committee. Example last yr all Ireland they declined the use of Hawkeye which cost Dublin the all Ireland. I'm not saying this action isn't small minded but I hate this shite talk of the big bad gaa grabing money of everyone.
Quote from: stew on September 30, 2017, 02:19:54 PM
I was talking to an old friend that used to play for Mullaghbrack GFC which sadly folded years ago, the Ladies have a team and they play at their lovely wee ground just outside Markethill, he claims the GAA are trying to claim the property as their own as the club no longer exists, when the ladies are mentioned he tells me the line from HQ is simply the the ladies team is not part of the equation, that vexes me as they just had 48,000 plus at the ladies senior final and had no problem taking the kesh!
I have no idea if their claim has any validity but it appears that there is going to be a legal battle over this situation, has anyone any idea how things work when clubs fold pertaining to their assets etc? In the case I am talking about the community owned the property outright however received some funding from the GAA.
Every piece of land or property will have title deeds which name the owner or owners who may be individuals or another legal entity such as a company or titled trust. Additionally, the ownership of the property will have been listed by the Land Registry. Therefore, it will be fairly straightforward to find the last listed owner or owners of the land. However, a bank or other financial body may have a mortgage on the property which allows it to take ownership with a view to recovering any outstanding debt. Not sure if the GAA constitutes such a body when it provides financial aid to a club.
Not sure that the 'community' can own the property as it can only be assigned in the deeds of ownership to a specific legal entity.
I suspect the GAA generally seek vesting in the GAA when funds are provided, in order to avoid a situation where someone runs off with the property. The Ladies GAA is a separate association, does it own pitches? The GAA might be willing to vest it in the Ladies GAA for a nominal fee.
Quote from: armaghniac on September 30, 2017, 11:25:42 PM
I suspect the GAA generally seek vesting in the GAA when funds are provided, in order to avoid a situation where someone runs off with the property. The Ladies GAA is a separate association, does it own pitches? The GAA might be willing to vest it in the Ladies GAA for a nominal fee.
I don't think any pitches are vested in the ladies GFA
if a community does the majority of the fundraising, despite getting a small GAA grant then the pitch should belong to the community not the GAA, if that is the wishes of the clubs.
then again, community pitches can access a lot of funding that GAA pitches cannot
Surely Mullabrack club still exists? Just doesn't field a men's team anymore? http://www.mullabrackgfc.com
Armagh section please.
Must you start off your day calling other posters abusive names.
Whatever issues you have that cause you to continue to post in an aggressive manner need attention.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 30, 2017, 05:16:24 PM
Surely if the GAA owns it,it would be better than anyone else.There were far too many rural clubs in a radius of seven miles to be sustainable,Mullabrack,Clady,Lisummon,and Poyntzpass O'Hanlons
Have to agree with him on the first point.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2017, 10:06:15 AM
Armagh section please.
Wise up man, I am looking for answers the lads around the country might be better informed to help me with, I am not going after the GAA either, I was just looking for clarification.
Quote from: stew on October 01, 2017, 11:58:33 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2017, 10:06:15 AM
Armagh section please.
Wise up man, I am looking for answers the lads around the country might be better informed to help me with, I am not going after the GAA either, I was just looking for clarification.
There are plenty of clubs around the country in the same trouble with difficulties in fielding a team due to population shifts, urbanisation, the lack of work in rural areas. Just look where local primary schools in the countryside are close to closing the doors or have been shut down and you see the beginning of the end for the football club. Then Mullaghbrack's problem becomes national. St James' PS school is gone, Catholics living in Markethill down to single figures, depopulation of the countryside and young people left to seek work and a living elsewhere. Sound familiar?
Ladies gaa are their own organisation. They seem to have no pitches today least very few of their own. The sensible thing would be for them to come into the official gaa. Until they do that how can they have any legal rights to any gaa pitch?
Is there even a Mullaghbrack women's team? They were Lissabrack a few years back - an amalgamation between Lissummon & Mullaghbrack.
Are all pitches (that are not council owned) not held in trust by clubs but the 'GAA' are the owners?
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2017, 10:45:20 AM
Must you start off your day calling other posters abusive names.
Whatever issues you have that cause you to continue to post in an aggressive manner need attention.
In fairness you are a complete tool
Quote from: T Fearon on September 30, 2017, 05:16:24 PM
Surely if the GAA owns it,it would be better than anyone else.There were far too many rural clubs in a radius of seven miles to be sustainable,Mullabrack,Clady,Lisummon,and Poyntzpass O'Hanlons
This year Poyntzpass struggled to field 15 players on several occasions. For those that want to play, I could envisage an exodus to Lissummon, Glen or Aghaderg.
My understanding was that the GAA family comprised football, hurling, camogie and handball. Has ladies football been formally adopted?
That's a shame,considering the great strides in the improved facilities at O'Hanlons.But sadly there is too many clubs in this rural cluster
Quote from: Orior on October 01, 2017, 10:47:15 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 30, 2017, 05:16:24 PM
Surely if the GAA owns it,it would be better than anyone else.There were far too many rural clubs in a radius of seven miles to be sustainable,Mullabrack,Clady,Lisummon,and Poyntzpass O'Hanlons
This year Poyntzpass struggled to field 15 players on several occasions. For those that want to play, I could envisage an exodus to Lissummon, Glen or Aghaderg.
My understanding was that the GAA family comprised football, hurling, camogie and handball. Has ladies football been formally adopted?
No and neither has camogie officially.
Quote from: bennydorano on October 01, 2017, 05:46:24 PM
Are all pitches (that are not council owned) not held in trust by clubs but the 'GAA' are the owners?
That is my understanding of how affiliation into the GAA works as well. The deeds are meant to reside with the GAA, whether that be at county board level or provincial level I don't know, but I do know that most clubs trustee's includes the county secretary and the provincial secretary as well as whatever local club members.
Nothing can happen of any significance in terms of grants/developments/loans without their buy in.
Camogie and Ladies Football are Gaelic Games, but not Gaelic Athletic Association games.
Quote from: Orior on October 01, 2017, 10:47:15 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 30, 2017, 05:16:24 PM
Surely if the GAA owns it,it would be better than anyone else.There were far too many rural clubs in a radius of seven miles to be sustainable,Mullabrack,Clady,Lisummon,and Poyntzpass O'Hanlons
This year Poyntzpass struggled to field 15 players on several occasions. For those that want to play, I could envisage an exodus to Lissummon, Glen or Aghaderg.
My understanding was that the GAA family comprised football, hurling, camogie and handball. Has ladies football been formally adopted?
Lissummon should be the only option then, Down league???? Never.
Time for clubs in Armagh to amalgamate
Random piece of History #1
It is reputed that Redmond O'Hanlon worked as a foot-boy for Sir George Acheson, the owner of Gosford Castle beside Markethill in the mid-sixteenth century.
Random piece of History #2
When I visited Gosford Castle earlier this year I met Oisin McConville, who was going for a jog around it.
Last time I looked at the GAA Official Guide it said that when a club folds any of its assets become property of the county board. Which makes sense since you can't really just let large sums of money (or property) disappear into someone's pocket after so much community effort was made raising the funds and building the facilities. In this case the Armagh GAA board could take ownership of the ground, but if the ladies club is still getting use of it then the LGFA's Armagh county board might want to help them take it over for a small nominal fee.
In an ideal world the LGFA and Camogie Association would be part of the GAA, but in the meantime this strikes me as a solvable problem if all parties would get around a table and sort it out.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 02, 2017, 11:24:07 PM
Last time I looked at the GAA Official Guide it said that when a club folds any of its assets become property of the county board. Which makes sense since you can't really just let large sums of money (or property) disappear into someone's pocket after so much community effort was made raising the funds and building the facilities. In this case the Armagh GAA board could take ownership of the ground, but if the ladies club is still getting use of it then the LGFA's Armagh county board might want to help them take it over for a small nominal fee.
In an ideal world the LGFA and Camogie Association would be part of the GAA, but in the meantime this strikes me as a solvable problem if all parties would get around a table and sort it out.
I hope so Eamon, thanks for the clarification.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 02, 2017, 11:24:07 PM
Last time I looked at the GAA Official Guide it said that when a club folds any of its assets become property of the county board. Which makes sense since you can't really just let large sums of money (or property) disappear into someone's pocket after so much community effort was made raising the funds and building the facilities. In this case the Armagh GAA board could take ownership of the ground, but if the ladies club is still getting use of it then the LGFA's Armagh county board might want to help them take it over for a small nominal fee.
In an ideal world the LGFA and Camogie Association would be part of the GAA, but in the meantime this strikes me as a solvable problem if all parties would get around a table and sort it out.
All gaa land is held by trustees under a deed of trust
There should be 5 trustees( including one from county board and one from provincial council)
The deed of trust sets out clearly the rules for holding the land and in the standard gaa rules there is a section which deals with the assets of a. Luv when it is wound up.
Putting it simply the assets are owned by the GAA.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 02, 2017, 10:00:10 AM
Camogie and Ladies Football are Gaelic Games, but not Gaelic Athletic Association games.
Correct and it's absolutely ridiculous. Both should be fasttracked into the GAA as should the Masters organisations (is there Masters hurling?). We hear about golf clubs that don't allow female members - the GAA has no outlet for female players. It's nuts.
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 03, 2017, 02:24:34 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 02, 2017, 10:00:10 AM
Camogie and Ladies Football are Gaelic Games, but not Gaelic Athletic Association games.
Correct and it's absolutely ridiculous. Both should be fasttracked into the GAA as should the Masters organisations (is there Masters hurling?). We hear about golf clubs that don't allow female members - the GAA has no outlet for female players. It's nuts.
To be fair, I think it's the women's associations themselves that don't want to be in the GAA. I think Camogie came closest a while ago, but they want autonomy over their fixtures, sponsorships etc.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 03, 2017, 02:26:04 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 03, 2017, 02:24:34 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 02, 2017, 10:00:10 AM
Camogie and Ladies Football are Gaelic Games, but not Gaelic Athletic Association games.
Correct and it's absolutely ridiculous. Both should be fasttracked into the GAA as should the Masters organisations (is there Masters hurling?). We hear about golf clubs that don't allow female members - the GAA has no outlet for female players. It's nuts.
To be fair, I think it's the women's associations themselves that don't want to be in the GAA. I think Camogie came closest a while ago, but they want autonomy over their fixtures, sponsorships etc.
Sure give it to them - let them run it whatever way they want. I'm sure the GPA aren't told how to run their affairs.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 03, 2017, 02:26:04 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 03, 2017, 02:24:34 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 02, 2017, 10:00:10 AM
Camogie and Ladies Football are Gaelic Games, but not Gaelic Athletic Association games.
Correct and it's absolutely ridiculous. Both should be fasttracked into the GAA as should the Masters organisations (is there Masters hurling?). We hear about golf clubs that don't allow female members - the GAA has no outlet for female players. It's nuts.
To be fair, I think it's the women's associations themselves that don't want to be in the GAA. I think Camogie came closest a while ago, but they want autonomy over their fixtures, sponsorships etc.
That's correct. In the US the ladies sports are all under the USGAA's umbrella which makes things run a lot smoother. Women are well represented in just about every committee and every meeting.
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 03, 2017, 02:31:43 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 03, 2017, 02:26:04 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 03, 2017, 02:24:34 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 02, 2017, 10:00:10 AM
Camogie and Ladies Football are Gaelic Games, but not Gaelic Athletic Association games.
Correct and it's absolutely ridiculous. Both should be fasttracked into the GAA as should the Masters organisations (is there Masters hurling?). We hear about golf clubs that don't allow female members - the GAA has no outlet for female players. It's nuts.
To be fair, I think it's the women's associations themselves that don't want to be in the GAA. I think Camogie came closest a while ago, but they want autonomy over their fixtures, sponsorships etc.
Sure give it to them - let them run it whatever way they want. I'm sure the GPA aren't told how to run their affairs.
In the context of this thread the issue presumably is access to facilities and the like. Should they get access to facilities when they are not part of the association and when they provide few facilities in return?
I think it's fairly widespread that the womens' sports get treated very well in the GAA by clubs etc. Of course women are an integral part of the GAA proper, so it's only right that their games are treated with respect. I know in our club for example that the camogie teams are rostered on the hurling wall, and the pitches, for training and matches just like the hurling and football mens teams. And that's as it should be. The camogie club helps with coaching in schools, boys and girls.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 03, 2017, 08:15:49 PM
I think it's fairly widespread that the womens' sports get treated very well in the GAA by clubs etc. Of course women are an integral part of the GAA proper, so it's only right that their games are treated with respect. I know in our club for example that the camogie teams are rostered on the hurling wall, and the pitches, for training and matches just like the hurling and football mens teams. And that's as it should be. The camogie club helps with coaching in schools, boys and girls.
Kinda makes you wonder what's the point of them having separate organizations.
Do girls teams get the same access to county or provincial centres of excellence? I have my doubts. There's no good reason why the organisations should be separate. If it is to do with paid officials losing out I don't see why this would be the case. The GPA again are an example - I'm pretty sure their paid officials still got paid when they were brought into the tent.
We can't have anything less in place for females than we have for males. At present the LGFA/CA relies on the goodwill of the GAA. That's not good enough in my book really.
Seanie, we can't *force* them to join. You make it sound as if it is a GAA choice.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 05, 2017, 01:25:11 PM
Seanie, we can't *force* them to join. You make it sound as if it is a GAA choice.
I haven't said anything about forcing anyone to do anything.
What I'm say is I'm sure there are members of all of the organisations concerned posting here and we should all use our influence to make the common sense outcome come about ASAP.
If there's some good reason I'm missing as to why this shouldn't happen I'd love to hear it.
There isn't in my book, and I don't think the GAA have any issues with it. But you said "we can't have anything less in place for females than we have for males. At present the LGFA/CA relies on the goodwill of the GAA. That's not good enough in my book really."
By 'we' I assume you mean the GAA. And if so the only reason we have anything less is because the women's associations want it that way. Which is why I said we can't force them to join.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 05, 2017, 01:25:11 PM
Seanie, we can't *force* them to join. You make it sound as if it is a GAA choice.
If they dont want to join rent them the facilities and treat them like you would the rugger buggers or the sawker heads when they use croker, simples.
Quote from: stew on October 06, 2017, 10:14:32 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 05, 2017, 01:25:11 PM
Seanie, we can't *force* them to join. You make it sound as if it is a GAA choice.
If they dont want to join rent them the facilities and treat them like you would the rugger buggers or the sawker heads when they use croker, simples.
Not sure if the GAA rents to them for All Irelands etc, but why would you treat them the same as the rugby or soccer lads? They are not competitors, they are sister organisations, no pun intended, and are intrinsically linked at club level all the way up and down the country. Not to mention most of 'them' are also 'us' given their membership of GAA clubs as well.