Down Club Hurling & Football

[thewobbler]

It is not acceptable to give a player one championship game in a year given the time and effort they put in for many months before it. They must get two.
I smile at that thought process. What a massive difference and must make it all worth it.

Honestly, I just don't get this.

Here was our Championship year.

1. R1 against Loughinisland was a proper championship match with both teams trying to win, and the difference in the teams was the Blues getting on top at midfield in the final quarter.

2. R2 against Saval was a waste of time for everyone involved. Ballyholland would have won it had they spent the week drinking.

3. R3 against Longstone was a waste of time for everyone involved. Ballyholland would have won it has they spent the week drinking.

4. QF against Burren was a waste of time for everyone involved. Burren would have won it had they spent the week drinking.


R2 felt like a friendly. R3 felt like an end-of-season league game dead rubber. QF felt like there was a league between the sides and the result was inevitable.


Please don't try to tell me that those last 3 matches were championship standard, championship audiences, championship intensity, championship buzz.

So when you claim it's not acceptable to give players just one championship game a year, I don't honestly believe you and me have the same understanding of what championship football is. Once you see the label, you're happy. Unless I see the product, I'm not.

[thewobbler]

I think you've misunderstood my post. That might be on me.

Anyway, I agree with you.

Ah you're right, I read you inside out.

My apologies.

f**k the back door.

[Gaelforce123]

100% agree. This 'everyone deserves two games after they have prepared for months' narrative is nonsense. The championship started within 2-3 weeks of leagues finishing, there is not the 4-5 week gap there used to be between competition.

When straight knock out is there, everyone wants to see every game. The games have much higher attendances, better atmospheres and more potential for upsets. League allows games, championship should be knockout football.... Everyone enjoys ulster club championship because its do or
Die... much better games, if it had a back door some games would lose their profile. I think players should be asked on this... 

[manwithnoplan]

didnt know that about them being possibly only team to win 2 in a row , is there then a reason why all counties are not adopting the tyrone method of leagues and championship ?

The Tyrone SFC format of straight knockout football has led to some great games to watch over the years, it might lead to a few more entertaining games in Down but perhaps it would still end up being the same teams in the final anyway as Kilcoo are relentless, and you've a couple of others in the next bracket. A more cynical view is that there might be more money to be made through having more games and a back door system, or group formats as some counties have.

A realistic view is the current championship format is better than straight knockout. What are the advantages of straight knockout? If you think Kilcoo would have won any fewer than they have in the last decade or so, you are mistaken. Current format is far better for players who are asked a hell of a lot more in terms of commitment than yesteryear at club level.

I hadn't actually stated the straight knockout was better. But since you mention it, I believe at club level it is far better. Kilcoo have been the best team by a mile for years, maybe nobody would have knocked them out, but sure maybe it would have happened once or twice and made things more interesting. As for the commitment thing, as others have mentioned playing 2 or 3 games instead of one, when you play for a team that won't have a chance of beating Kilcoo twice to win it, is absolutely pointless. Players play and train because they love football. They get 16 or 18 league games to play. Why make them play 2 extra games 9/10 months after they started training if they have almost zero chance of causing an upset to win a championship? Just an opinion. Also, watching Tyrone's SFC games compared to other counties is a far more entertaining experience.

[KeyboardWman]

Nothing but complaints on this. Mental you think people really care about east and south down. Straight championship or no straight championship the majority of games are exciting. All the players deserve a good go at it. Happens in county why not at club.
The same ones complaining that the back door wasn't brought into county football in the 60s or 90s and down would have more all Ireland's.
Forever begrudgers.

[Gaelforce123]

The Majority of games are exciting? The two semis had 10 and 11 point differences and the final had a 9 point difference. All Q Finals were 6/7 points bar kilcoo v Carryduff. Majority of games exciting? Jesus

[TakeTheMark]

Controversial perhaps, but I prefer the format the way it is. Just don't go down the route of other counties and go group stages again. That format does not suit club football and cannot see how counties persist with it.

Since counties began installing multiple elimination competitions (groups/back doors), Tyrone, who didn't give in and are the only county in Ireland still with straight knockout (I think?), they haven't actually produced a provincial club champion in that time.

The question would be is it down to the championship, has better teams fallen by the wayside in a one off game? Has teams not gotten enough competitive championship  games? Or is it simply a case of their club teams just not being strong enough?

Obviously in that time there has been strong sides, Cross winning 5, Slaughtneil winning 3 and Kilcoo winning 2, but Tyrone have only produced one losing finalist since Errigal Ciaran winning in 2002.

[TakeTheMark]

Correct, I was just posing the question as prior to format changes across the province, probably between 2005-2012(?), while Errigal were the only team to win it, there were certainly more Tyrone teams reaching finals. After the format changes in other counties even these final appearances have dried up for Tyrone clubs.

It could simply be coincidence, as I say I was only posing the question so all angles are considered before arriving at the conclusion that one format is better than another.

[skat man]

I think the fact that only one Tyrone club has won Ulster in the 50 odd years it has been on the go suggests that it has nothing to do with the championship formats other counties have used. Most, if not all counties would have used a straight knockout for the majority of those years.

not saying you are wrong but look at it another way, all tyrone clubs are fully concentrating on just winning the tyrone championship so cant plan to peak for ulster. in alot of other counties that isnt the case

[Mourne Red]

It won't happen but if you're wanting to make more meaningful fixtures in SFC probably best way to do that is to reduce the amount of teams in it.

[skat man]

true, possibly no matter what format you use the kilcoos , derygonnellys and crosses of the world will still prevail

[Kong King]

I think Down have it spot on with their Championship formats. The only issue would be scheduling and venues. So much more potential to make the championship season good for supporters and watchers

[Hard2Listen2]

Division 1 managers 2024?

Kilcoo - K Lacey
Burren -
CPN -
Clonduff - J Kennedy?
Mayobridge - M Walsh?
Carryduff - F Moriarty
Loughinisland - C O'Toole
Bredagh - ?
Ballyholland - S Mulholland?
Castlewellan - C McCabe

Division 2

Longstone - ?
Bryansford - J Magorrian
RGU - K Duffin & C McCrickard
Rostrevor - ?
Saval - ?
Saul - ?
Liatroim - P Murray
Shamrocks - DJ Kane
An Riocht  - C Kelly
St John's - ?

Division 3

Glenn - S Clark?
Drumgath - J Lynch?
Annaclone- J Clarke?
Ballymartin- ?
Attical - ?
Tullylish - ?
Darragh - B Mason
Banbridge- ?
Bosco - ?
Finn - M Copeland?

Division 4

Drumaness - P Morgan?
St Paul's- P Hannigan?
Bright - M McCartan?
Dromara - J Fegan
Teconnaght - C Laverty
Kilclief - S Curran?
Ardglass - K Smyth?
Dundrum - R McCartan
East Belfast - ?
Aghaderg - ?
St Michael's - L McAlinden?
Glasdrumman - ?

Anyone able to fill in any blanks or correct any errors above?

I should add that Mitchell's & Ballykinler aren't included. I'm assuming they won't field.

[Gaelforce123]

Not sure of all and maybe some have moved on but as far as I believe

Kilcoo - K Lacey
Burren - not in place
CPN - not in place
Clonduff - not in place
Mayobridge - Bernie Murray
Carryduff - F Moriarty
Loughinisland - C O'Toole
Bredagh - G & T McAnulty
Ballyholland - S Mulholland
Castlewellan - unsure

Division 2

Longstone - C Branigan
Bryansford - Not in Place
RGU - K Duffin & C McCrickard
Rostrevor - Not In place
Saval - Not in Place
Saul - Not in Place
Liatroim - P Murray & S Johnson
Shamrocks - DJ Kane
An Riocht  - C Kelly
St John's - S Curran

Division 3

Glenn - S Clark
Drumgath - P Hynes
Annaclone- J Clarke
Ballymartin- Not in Place
Attical - Rafferty
Tullylish - R McShane
Darragh - B Mason
Banbridge- P Feeney
Bosco - M McVeigh
Finn - M Copeland

Division 4

Drumaness - P Morgan
St Paul's- P Hannigan
Bright - Not in Place
Dromara - J Fegan
Teconnaght - C Laverty
Kilclief -
Ardglass -
Dundrum - R McCartan
East Belfast - Not in Place
Aghaderg - Not in Place
St Michael's - L McAlinden
Glasdrumman - Not in Place

[snoopdog]

The lack of Tyrone teams success in the senior ulster club championship doesn't hamper their County team. Best in ulster last 20 odd years. It's seriously competitive. I listened to a former Tyrone player a few months back on the GAA social and he said they look to win a senior championship and then get in the Tyrone panel. That's their goal .they rarely look beyond a Tyrone championship title.  Tyrone championship is competitive. Downs isn't. Kilcoo breeze through it.