"It's time for the GAA to drop the national anthem"

Started by seafoid, September 21, 2016, 09:33:13 AM

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LCohen

Quote from: 6th sam on September 26, 2016, 11:16:31 AM
I would agree that the anthem, should only be played on special occasions , or else it can be de-valued. However those GAA members that would try to erode the patriotic ethos of the GAA, should be careful what they wish for. The GAA punches well above it's weight in terms of members , facilities, contribution to society. This is because of the volunteer effort of members in most communities in Ireland , sustained across years and indeed generations. In my experience most of those volunteers are prepared to invest that time because consciously or subconsciously , they feel it's an opportunity to manifest their patriotism. This is not a political patriotism , in my opinion, as it transcends party-political lines, but it's a sense that we have so much to be proud of as a country, and for many the GAA is the most tangible way of living that pride.
We have great games but we will never have the resources and affinity worldwide to challenge global games such as soccer, in any other country but Ireland .Therefore ,in my opinion , if we erode what really makes our association different (ie the patriotic element) , and compete with soccer , for example, in a purely sporting context , we would place the development of our games in jeopardy .
For those that think that removing the anthem etc, will result in a massive increase in our membership should be aware that dilution of our identity may have the opposite effect, and certainly could put our greatest strength -our sustained volunteer commitment in jeopardy. Coming from a club that always had players from across the community, it's far more relevant to actively welcome all comers , with open arms, as opposed to diluting the very values which make us strongest.

Enlighten us further on the sub conscious thoughts of GAA volunteers?

For me the GAA is primarily a sporting organisation. There is an outlet via scor for the cultural dimension. It attracts a crowd but not it wouldn't give the impression that that the GAA is stocked full of people that thnk culture and patriotism is the key to the GAA.

How many "GAA fans" have little or no interest in hurling (and actually see it as a threat football) or ladies football or camogie? My point is that there are huge number of GAA fans who pick the sporting bit(s) they like and have no interest in the rest of it.

For me retaining (or regaining) the amateur ethos is far more important than the nationalistic ethos

general_lee

Quote from: 6th sam on September 26, 2016, 11:16:31 AM
This is because of the volunteer effort of members in most communities in Ireland , sustained across years and indeed generations. In my experience most of those volunteers are prepared to invest that time because consciously or subconsciously , they feel it's an opportunity to manifest their patriotism. This is not a political patriotism , in my opinion, as it transcends party-political lines, but it's a sense that we have so much to be proud of as a country, and for many the GAA is the most tangible way of living that pride.
Not sure I agree with this. GAA is something you're brought up with or born into, growing up I hadn't a clue about the patriotic dimension, I just wanted to kick a ball. As you get older you become aware of the nationalistic dimensions, some people appreciate them, many people are largely indifferent to them and some people (like myself) question them as I don't think some aspects such as the anthem are necessary. My pride in the GAA isn't one of national pride, it's largely pride in my club and county. When the club won a championship I didn't think to myself Jesus what a great day to be Irish...

LCohen

Quote from: general_lee on September 27, 2016, 11:40:49 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on September 26, 2016, 11:16:31 AM
This is because of the volunteer effort of members in most communities in Ireland , sustained across years and indeed generations. In my experience most of those volunteers are prepared to invest that time because consciously or subconsciously , they feel it's an opportunity to manifest their patriotism. This is not a political patriotism , in my opinion, as it transcends party-political lines, but it's a sense that we have so much to be proud of as a country, and for many the GAA is the most tangible way of living that pride.
Not sure I agree with this. GAA is something you're brought up with or born into, growing up I hadn't a clue about the patriotic dimension, I just wanted to kick a ball. As you get older you become aware of the nationalistic dimensions, some people appreciate them, many people are largely indifferent to them and some people (like myself) question them as I don't think some aspects such as the anthem are necessary. My pride in the GAA isn't one of national pride, it's largely pride in my club and county. When the club won a championship I didn't think to myself Jesus what a great day to be Irish...

I would agree with this.

The nationalistic aspect does not come up in conversation often in my experience. Mind you its been over a year since I have been in Galbally.

To re-iterate the more important dimension is the amateur ethos. That is being trampled all over by clubs, counties and individuals and being pissed on from on high by the hierarchy. There is an acceptance and facilitation of the the current fudge where we publicly declare one thing and the privately (but quite obviously) do another.

6th sam

#64
I would agree that most GAA fans aren't consumed with nationalistic fervour, but in my experience, a significant numbers of our volunteers are to some extent motivated by the sense of Irishness in the GAA. Though club affinity is crucial for many of us, National affinity is manifest by members who move away from home and volunteer in their new clubs, inside or outside their own county. I would fear that if we convert our clubs to purely sporting clubs , we are in danger of sleepwalking into our demise, as we'll never enjoy the publicity and international dimension of our main competitors, soccer. During the time I have been involved in my club, I have witnessed the formation, demise, and sometimes reformation of >20 soccer clubs in our area. With a few notable exceptions these clubs are not able to harness volunteers for any sustainable period. The cement that holds our GAA club together is the sustained volunteer effort , and for many of those volunteers the sense of national pride in the GAA is a factor in their continuing commitment . This level of dedication is unmatched in other sports in terms of scale and longevity. If there is any chance that the sense of Irishness, is a contributory factor in that volunteer effort, the GAA should resist any attempt to dilute it.

Ciarrai_thuaidh

I am pretty far  away from being an ultra-nationalist, but hearing Amhrán na bhFiann being sung by the crowd (no opera singers needed) on All Ireland final day or Munster final day, is a treasured experience for me. No way would I want it dropped.

What COULD be dropped is all the minutes silences that hold up games constrantly. No other sport indulges it as much as the GAA. Somebody will always have died recently who was involved in the GAA. I don't see the need for the constant minute's silences unless they were a huge national figure from a county involved in the game.

Also, some of the Sh*te being brought in lately, this respect handshake b*llox for example, is needless and pointless. The Minor football teams this year were made to line up and shake hands with each other with foreboding music from Game of Thrones playing on the PA system. Just let them play the game and stop the nonsense. Sort out the grey areas in rules, refereeing etc rather than devoting so much token time to rubbish like "respect handshakes" and we'd be in a far better place.
"Better to die on your feet,than live on your knees"...

LCohen

Quote from: 6th sam on September 27, 2016, 04:20:41 PM
I would agree that most GAA fans aren't consumed with nationalistic fervour, but in my experience, a significant numbers of our volunteers are to some extent motivated by the sense of Irishness in the GAA. Though club affinity is crucial for many of us, National affinity is manifest by members who move away from home and volunteer in their new clubs, inside or outside their own county. I would fear that if we convert our clubs to purely sporting clubs , we are in danger of sleepwalking into our demise, as we'll never enjoy the publicity and international dimension of our main competitors, soccer. During the time I have been involved in my club, I have witnessed the formation, demise, and sometimes reformation of >20 soccer clubs in our area. With a few notable exceptions these clubs are not able to harness volunteers for any sustainable period. The cement that holds our GAA club together is the sustained volunteer effort , and for many of those volunteers the sense of national pride in the GAA is a factor in their continuing commitment . This level of dedication is unmatched in other sports in terms of scale and longevity. If there is any chance that the sense of Irishness, is a contributory factor in that volunteer effort, the GAA should resist any attempt to dilute it.

Most people want to be involved in a game that is an attractive game to watch and to play and that delivers some social benefit to their area and more broadly. Focus on that and get it right and there will be no shortage of volunteers to organise, play and watch our games.

Dabble in politics and it will turn an audience off.
Don't tackle the idiots at Galbally (and the like) and it will turn an audience off.
Don't address the flaws within the rules (and their application) of the game and you bore an audience.
Don't address the obvious issues of people taking money from the game and it will turn an audience (who pay the money in) off
Don't address the near-professionalism demanded of players and you will turn an audience off.

longballin


LCohen


Jinxy

If you were any use you'd be playing.

T Fearon

The official opening of the new Windsor Park is to take place on Saturday week,with the FIFA chief jetting in.Ive read that there will be what's called stars from NI Sport in general there as guests of the IFA (Rory Mc Ilroy,Mary Peters, etc).

I have been unable to ascertain whether or not Ulster GAA will be represented,whether or not it has been invited and if it has,has the invitation been refused.

Should Ulster GAA attend,given that it works closely with the IFA on numerous projects.Would this be a way of reaching out to other communities

From the Bunker

Quote from: T Fearon on September 28, 2016, 07:10:47 PM
The official opening of the new Windsor Park is to take place on Saturday week,with the FIFA chief jetting in.Ive read that there will be what's called stars from NI Sport in general there as guests of the IFA (Rory Mc Ilroy,Mary Peters, etc).

I have been unable to ascertain whether or not Ulster GAA will be represented,whether or not it has been invited and if it has,has the invitation been refused.

Should Ulster GAA attend,given that it works closely with the IFA on numerous projects.Would this be a way of reaching out to other communities

Thought you were going to say they were abandoning GSTQ for Danny Boy!

LCohen

Quote from: T Fearon on September 28, 2016, 07:10:47 PM
The official opening of the new Windsor Park is to take place on Saturday week,with the FIFA chief jetting in.Ive read that there will be what's called stars from NI Sport in general there as guests of the IFA (Rory Mc Ilroy,Mary Peters, etc).

I have been unable to ascertain whether or not Ulster GAA will be represented,whether or not it has been invited and if it has,has the invitation been refused.

Should Ulster GAA attend,given that it works closely with the IFA on numerous projects.Would this be a way of reaching out to other communities

There is no good reason for them not to be invited and no good reason to not accept such an invitation. 

LCohen

Quote from: From the Bunker on September 28, 2016, 07:30:43 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 28, 2016, 07:10:47 PM
The official opening of the new Windsor Park is to take place on Saturday week,with the FIFA chief jetting in.Ive read that there will be what's called stars from NI Sport in general there as guests of the IFA (Rory Mc Ilroy,Mary Peters, etc).

I have been unable to ascertain whether or not Ulster GAA will be represented,whether or not it has been invited and if it has,has the invitation been refused.

Should Ulster GAA attend,given that it works closely with the IFA on numerous projects.Would this be a way of reaching out to other communities

Thought you were going to say they were abandoning GSTQ for Danny Boy!

I think its fair to say that IFA would gladly drop GSTQ. Whether there is the stomach to take on those who would vociferously object to such a move. That is a different matter.

Jinxy

Quote from: T Fearon on September 28, 2016, 07:10:47 PM
The official opening of the new Windsor Park is to take place on Saturday week,with the FIFA chief jetting in.Ive read that there will be what's called stars from NI Sport in general there as guests of the IFA (Rory Mc Ilroy,Mary Peters, etc).

I have been unable to ascertain whether or not Ulster GAA will be represented,whether or not it has been invited and if it has,has the invitation been refused.

Should Ulster GAA attend,given that it works closely with the IFA on numerous projects.Would this be a way of reaching out to other communities

Are you going, Tony?
If you were any use you'd be playing.