Hamas attack Israel & subsequent genocide

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Most Jews are decent but there is a small minority who cause all of the trouble.

Most Jews are decent but there is a small minority who cause all of the trouble.

Can you provide any data to back that up...

vast majority of the world Jews are in the US and Israel and the majority in both those countries support the genocide. I dont thinknanyone who support genocide can be considered decent...

Israeli leftwingers hate Netanyahu. American Jews under 40 are anti genocide and so are American left wing Jewd. That's a sizeable number of decent Jews.

Will I take that as no data.

[seafoid]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/09/01/israel-hamas-war-latest-news58/

Israel's "entire economy will go on strike" on Monday in a bid to pressure Benjamin Netanyahu into accepting a Gaza ceasefire deal after six hostages were shot dead.

Arnon Bar-David, the head of the Histadrut labour union, on Sunday called for "all civilian workers" to join the strike, which is expected to last one day, though could be extended beyond Monday.

[Itchy]

They not too bothered about women and children being blown apart, just their own hostages. I wouldn't be giving them too much credit

[seafoid]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/09/01/execution-israeli-hostages-peace-deal-palestine-war-hamas/


Execution of Israeli hostages may force deal to finally end war
Cold-blooded killing of six people held captive by Hamas for 11 months could topple Benjamin Netanyahu's fragile coalition government

Paul Nuki,
 Global Health Security Editor
1 September 2024 • 6:05pm

17
The six hostages killed by Hamas fighters in southern Gaza: (top row from left) Hersh Goldberg-Polin, Ori Danino, Eden Yerushalmi, and (bottom row from left) Almog Sarusi, Alexander Lobanov, and Carmel Gat
The six hostages killed by Hamas fighters in southern Gaza: (top row from left) Hersh Goldberg-Polin, Ori Danino, Eden Yerushalmi, and (bottom row from left) Almog Sarusi, Alexander Lobanov, and Carmel Gat Credit: Hostages Families Forum via AP
The execution in cold blood of six Israeli hostages by Hamas fighters in southern Gaza could topple Israel's fragile coalition government and finally force a deal that ends the 11-month war.

Certainly it will create tremors in Israel that reverberate for many years to come.

Rather than surrender their prisoners and hand Israel another victory, it seems Hamas shot them one at a time, leaving their corpses to be found by advancing IDF forces some 20 metres underground.

The fear and despair they must have experienced in those moments after being held hostage in Gaza for more than 10 months is scarcely imaginable.

The tragedy - which in some respects recalls the Munich massacre of 1972 in which 11 Israeli Olympians were executed by cornered Palestinian terrorists during a botched rescue attempt - may yet mark an inflection point.

At the time of writing, a one-day general strike was in the offing, while hostages' families, opposition politicians and even Yoav Gallant, the defence minister, blamed Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister, for sabotaging the ceasefire talks.

Family and friends mourn during a funeral for slain hostage Almog Sarusi
Family and friends mourn during a funeral for slain hostage Almog Sarusi Credit: Amir Levy/Getty Images
As with Munich, the latest tragedy is made worse by the fact that the release of the hostages was so tantalisingly close. Three of the six, including the young US-Israeli Hersh Goldberg-Polin who survived losing an arm in the Oct 7 assault, had been slated for immediate release as part of the ceasefire negotiations.

The Munich rescue was botched by the Germans and led to an unwritten social contract being adopted in Israel: that no Israeli held hostage would ever again be left behind.

On Sunday, the Hostages' Families Forum demanded Mr Netanyahu make a public appearance to "take responsibility" for the deaths of the hostages, rather than hide behind the IDF.

Relatives and supporters of Israeli hostages taken captive by Hamas militants block a major road during a protest in central Jerusalem on Sunday
Relatives and supporters of Israeli hostages taken captive by Hamas militants block a major road during a protest in central Jerusalem on Sunday Credit: AHMAD GHARABLI/AFP via Getty Images
Mr Gallant meanwhile called on the security cabinet to reverse the decision made last week to continue an Israeli presence along the Gaza-Egypt border - a decision that is widely seen as having sunk the hostage release talks in Cairo.

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Announcing a general strike on Monday, Arnon Bar-David, chief of the Labor Federation, said "a deal is more important than anything else".

Channelling the spirit of Israel's unwritten social contact, he added: "We are no longer one people; we are camp against camp ... we need to bring back the State of Israel.

"We are getting body bags instead of a deal."

Yet despite mounting pressure, Mr Netanyahu remains resolute. He has long preferred to emphasise a second, less noble, lesson that Israel took from Munich: that terror should be met with terror through extrajudicial assassination of those responsible.


But the political rope Mr Netanyahu is walking is horribly thin. He has kept his fragile governing coalition going by pandering to the hard-Right.

If Mr Gallant were to resign or significantly larger numbers of people took to protesting on the streets - as some are calling for - it could collapse overnight.

Polls also show an overwhelming majority of Israelis want a ceasefire that sees the remaining hostages returned alive.

After the latest killings, the pressure is now so high that Mr Netanyahu may be forced to reconsider his position and reaffirm Israel's social contract.

[LC]

They not too bothered about women and children being blown apart, just their own hostages. I wouldn't be giving them too much credit

+1

Any loss of life is terrible but the media coverage regarding the tragic death of these hostages compares drastically to the coverage of the slaughter of the people of Gaza.

[Itchy]

They not too bothered about women and children being blown apart, just their own hostages. I wouldn't be giving them too much credit

+1

Any loss of life is terrible but the media coverage regarding the tragic death of these hostages compares drastically to the coverage of the slaughter of the people of Gaza.

Is there any evidence Hamas shot them either, I mean who would believe anything the IDF says without evidence? Remember they werent targeting hospitals one time and Hamas were blowing them up themselves. They don't even bother with that particular lie anymore - hospitals, places of worship, schools, UN shelters, tents - all fair game to these genocidal maniacs.

[seafoid]

An unknown.number of Israelis from the concert were killed by Israel. This could be the end of Netanyahu, a genocidal maniac

[Denn Forever]

An unknown.number of Israelis from the concert were killed by Israel. This could be the end of Netanyahu, a genocidal maniac

Do tell.  Hadn't heard that.

[Itchy]

An unknown.number of Israelis from the concert were killed by Israel. This could be the end of Netanyahu, a genocidal maniac

Do tell.  Hadn't heard that.

Its been well published. They fired on Hamas militants and killed scores of their own people. Plenty of witness statements say the same.

[johnnycool]

An unknown.number of Israelis from the concert were killed by Israel. This could be the end of Netanyahu, a genocidal maniac

Do tell.  Hadn't heard that.

Its been well published. They fired on Hamas militants and killed scores of their own people. Plenty of witness statements say the same.

Hannibal directive.

One of the kibbutzs was bombed indiscriminately by the IDF and killed many of their own settlers.

[seafoid]

This is worth a listen
Why Israel is in trouble

1. Stuck in Gaza
2. Missile improvement means players like the houthis and hezbollah can easily hit targets in Israel. This freaks out Israelis
3 Israel's new pariah status in the West
4. Deterrence banjaxed


https://youtu.be/kAfIYtpcBxo

[seafoid]

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-09-03/ty-article/.premium/the-holy-philadelphi-route-will-be-paved-with-hostages-bodies-as-israel-reoccupies-gaza/00000191-b766-d9c6-a997-bf6e0cc30000
The 'Holy' Philadelphi Route Will Be Paved With Hostages' Bodies as Israel Reoccupies Gaza
Netanyahu and his ministers know that the army's presence on the Gaza-Egypt border didn't prevent Hamas' attacks in the past. The goal actually is to keep Israel in Gaza forever, a goal that's no longer folly, but evil
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An Israeli tank and soldiers on the Philadelphi route in June. Wherever the army is, settlements can be built, restoring the crown and glory.Credit: IDF Spokesperson's Unit
 
Zvi Bar'el
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Sep 3, 2024
Few Israelis needed Joe Biden's blunt "no" when he was asked if he believed that Benjamin Netanyahu was doing enough to achieve a hostage-release deal. Israelis have known the truth for months.
The prime minister didn't shoot the six hostages in the head last week, Hamas terrorists did. But Netanyahu systematically created the conditions that led to the murders.
It's warped, but Israel's control over the Philadelphi route – the Gaza-Egypt border – has been labeled "a diplomatic and strategic issue." And last week the security cabinet (except Defense Minister Yoav Gallant) duly voted to leave Israeli forces there. The chilling result became clear the following day in the dark tunnel where six hostages' bodies were found.
•   Netanyahu insistence on Israeli presence at Philadelphi route is a political ploy
•   Philadelphi and Netzarim, the two 'corridors' blocking a Gaza-Israel cease-fire
•   Netanyahu's insistence on Israeli control of Philadelphi route jeopardizes hostage deal
The security cabinet's decision reflects not only the ignominy of the dishrags who prioritized this hollow "strategy" over human life, as if it involved a holy site or a symbol of the return to the Promised Land. It also ignores the stance of the army and Shin Bet people who believe that Israel can forgo control over the route, certainly for a limited time. But most importantly, the decision maliciously ignores the route's history.
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Demonstrators in Jerusalem on Monday seeking a hostage deal.Credit: Menahem Kahana/AFP
Maliciously, because it's impossible that no one in the security cabinet remembers that the army controlled the Philadelphi route before, and this didn't prevent Hamas' stockpiling of weapons and launching of attacks, including terror attacks. It's also impossible that no one in the security cabinet remembers that even when the army fully controlled Gaza between 1967 and 2005, the year of the pullout, Israel still got hit by mortar fire and Qassam rockets from the Strip.
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According to data collected by rights group B'Tselem, the Shuvi women's group that supported the Gaza pullout, the Yesha Council of Jewish settlements and the Palestinian organization representing families of the dead, between 1967 and 2005, 230 Israelis and about 2,600 Palestinians were killed in Gaza. From December 1987, the beginning of the first intifada, until the signing of the Oslo I Accord six years later, 29 Israeli soldiers and civilians were killed. From 1993 to 2000, when the second intifada began, 39 Israelis were killed.
Over a year and a half, from Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's announcement of his plan to leave Gaza until the actual pullout, 52 Israelis were killed in Gaza. And during the second intifada, about 500 rockets and 6,000 mortar shells were fired from the Strip. During that entire period, Israel had complete control not only over the Philadelphi route but over all of Gaza.
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The Philadelphi corridor at Rafa in Gaza in July.Credit: David Bachar
Under the army's nose, tunnels were dug and weapons, ammunition and fighters from Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other groups were smuggled. They crossed to and from Sinai as if they were cruising down a highway.
Based on data analyzed by the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terror Information Center, between 2000 and 2005, 15,057 terrorist attacks were carried out in Gaza or were carried out in Israel and launched from Gaza (compared with 9,495 for the West Bank).
People on the right talk about "the era of quiet" before the disengagement, when the army's presence in Gaza allegedly prevented terrorist attacks and missile fire. They also talk about "the era of war" that the disengagement allegedly has produced. This is a totally baseless, fraudulent narrative that the government and prime minister are trying to recycle and sell to the public.
Whether to stay or withdraw from the Philadelphi corridor is a key issue on which the hostages' fate turns. But when Netanyahu calls it "a diplomatic issue" or "strategic," these are rhetorical flourishes designed to overshadow the lives of several dozen people. And when he uses these phrases, he's portraying the route as a linchpin for a continued occupation of Gaza.
That's because it's impossible to control the Philadephi route without controlling the routes leading to it. And there's no way to defend the soldiers patrolling it without defending the adjacent spaces and neighborhoods – and southern Gaza is densely populated.
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Protesters in Tel Aviv on Monday calling for a hostage deal.Credit: Tomer Appelbaum
The Philadephi route isn't a goat path used by amateur hikers. The official reason for controlling it is to combat smuggling from Sinai to Gaza, but when Netanyahu and his cabinet resolved that the army would stay there, this became a whole package including an occupation. As Netanyahu put it, "We will stay in Gaza as long as necessary."
That's the "strategic" translation of controlling the corridor, for which the hostages can be sacrificed. Most of all, it's a sacred goal, because wherever the army is, settlements can be built, restoring the crown and glory.
Hamas understands this, Egypt fears it, the United States knows where the Philadelphi route is taking Israel, and, paradoxically, the hostage deal is the only factor that can save Israel from getting mired in Gaza's sands. But the hostages are an obstacle to realizing the strategy of returning to Gaza, and they will be sacrificed on the altar of the "corridor" that has become a symbol of alleged total security.
Proof that the army's presence doesn't guarantee security can be found in the argument that the West Bank settlers hurl: The army isn't protecting them. It's impossible to argue that the army isn't "present" in the West Bank, but weapons flow there from Jordan, are stolen from army bases, and reach terrorists through Israeli criminal gangs. Car bombs don't need advanced Iranian technology or rare-earth elements.
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Eden Yerushalmi's funeral Monday. Israel has no intention of establishing an alternative Palestinian government.Credit: Moti Milrod
The first intifada developed and spread under the occupation when the army controlled the Philadelphi route, and the army's presence didn't prevent the kidnapping and murder of three teenagers in the West Bank in June 2014.
And the army's magic "presence" in Lebanon didn't help Galilee residents when Hezbollah launched hundreds of Katyushas and missiles into Israel in the '90s. The daily war in Israel's self-declared security zone in southern Lebanon, which lasted until 2000, wasn't enough. Israel had to launch two large campaigns, Operation Accountability in 1993 and Operation Grapes of Wrath in 1996, to try to stem the rocket fire. Still, the barrages continued through 1999.
Israel isn't the only country that argued that a long-term occupation ensures security. On May 1, 2003, then-President George W. Bush gave a speech on the deck of the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln under a banner declaring "Mission Accomplished."
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed" because "the regime [of Saddam Hussein] is no more," Bush said.
But in 2007, the United States was forced to send 20,000 more soldiers to Iraq as part of the "surge" strategy for fighting Al-Qaida, which had mobilized Sunni forces against the international coalition. The Americans only withdrew from Iraq in 2011 under an agreement that Bush signed with the Iraqi government in 2008, only to return in 2014 when the Islamic State seized parts of the country.
But the Americans at least had an exit strategy that relied on training an Iraqi army and police force that could handle the security problems (an army that failed at the start of the war against the Islamic State). The Americans also planned to rebuild the country's infrastructure and provide economic aid to the new Iraqi governments.
But Israel has no intention of establishing an alternative Palestinian government to Hamas, and the Philadelphi route will wind up a highway paved with the hostages bodies.

[seafoid]

The war has been a disaster for Israel.  At last the gaaboard population is pro Palestinian. 

[Puckoon]

The war has been a disaster for Israel.  At last the gaaboard population is pro Palestinian. 

Seafoid, the GAA population is undoubtedly Pro Palestinian. We grew up in a partitioned society with the British wrecking the place.

That said, you've been making bold prophetic statements for over a decade now about Israel's demise - that's how you post - and you've yet to hit the mark. Maybe it's time you hung up the speculative boots. They aren't going anywhere.

I say that with no joy at all - its the reality of the political landscape of the western governements.

[johnnycool]

The war has been a disaster for Israel.  At last the gaaboard population is pro Palestinian. 

Seafoid, the GAA population is undoubtedly Pro Palestinian. We grew up in a partitioned society with the British wrecking the place.

That said, you've been making bold prophetic statements for over a decade now about Israel's demise - that's how you post - and you've yet to hit the mark. Maybe it's time you hung up the speculative boots. They aren't going anywhere.

I say that with no joy at all - its the reality of the political landscape of the western governements.

The colonised will never support a coloniser, but I think Israels demise by Seafoid is greatly exaggerated.

They won't be required to return to the 1947 borders or to integrate with their Palestinian neighbours and they'll want to keep subjugating the Palestinians long after this is over.

Their Western backers are morally corrupt.