Hamas attack Israel & subsequent genocide

Started by bennydorano, October 07, 2023, 09:39:18 AM

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imtommygunn

There's no demise at all  :(

Can do whatever they want.


marty34

#3256
Quote from: johnnycool on September 05, 2024, 02:34:52 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on September 05, 2024, 03:48:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 04, 2024, 09:21:05 PMThe war has been a disaster for Israel.  At last the gaaboard population is pro Palestinian. 

Seafoid, the GAA population is undoubtedly Pro Palestinian. We grew up in a partitioned society with the British wrecking the place.

That said, you've been making bold prophetic statements for over a decade now about Israel's demise - that's how you post - and you've yet to hit the mark. Maybe it's time you hung up the speculative boots. They aren't going anywhere.

I say that with no joy at all - its the reality of the political landscape of the western governements.

The colonised will never support a coloniser, but I think Israels demise by Seafoid is greatly exaggerated.

They won't be required to return to the 1947 borders or to integrate with their Palestinian neighbours and they'll want to keep subjugating the Palestinians long after this is over.

Their Western backers are morally corrupt.

Seafóid is basically talking Seafòid.

Constanly saying this is the end etc. No sign of that.

As a matter of fact, they're taking more land.

seafoid

There is no going back to the status quo pre Oct 7 where Israel called the shots.
Gaza will be rebuilt with Gulf money. Hamas will probbly be sidelined
And there will be a serious effort to create a Palestinian state. Netanyahu will also have to go.

Haniyeh the Hamas dude was assassinated in Tehran. One possibility was that he wasn't going to be part of the future of Gaza.

seafoid

Quote from: Puckoon on September 05, 2024, 03:48:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 04, 2024, 09:21:05 PMThe war has been a disaster for Israel.  At last the gaaboard population is pro Palestinian. 

Seafoid, the GAA population is undoubtedly Pro Palestinian. We grew up in a partitioned society with the British wrecking the place.

That said, you've been making bold prophetic statements for over a decade now about Israel's demise - that's how you post - and you've yet to hit the mark. Maybe it's time you hung up the speculative boots. They aren't going anywhere.

I say that with no joy at all - its the reality of the political landscape of the western governements.
Oct 7 changed  a lot of people's view about Israel. It's more mainstream now to be pro Palestinian. There is more engagement and it wasn't like this a decade ago.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens.

seafoid

The Lancet estimates 186,000 deaths in Gaza

https://arabcenterdc.org/resource/the-lancet-and-genocide-by-slow-death-in-gaza/
The point is that large numbers of deaths are produced by conditions outside of mere military operations. For months now, doctors working at the few remaining medical facilities in Gaza have reported that most of the deaths they see come not from bombardment but from the "conditions of life," to use the terminology of the Genocide Convention. Babies and children in general dying of malnutrition account for some of the deaths. Lack of medical facilities and medical supplies count for more. A Texas-based doctor who did a stint in a Gaza hospital told National Public Radio, "Seeing these types of deaths that are preventable in America is heartbreaking because you put your efforts into saving someone's life and sincerely believe that you would save his life or her life, but it's like a shock when they die because you have nothing to help them with."

seafoid

Article on Israeli torture of prisoners

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-08-16/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/we-served-on-israels-sde-teiman-base-heres-what-we-did-to-gazans-detainees/00000191-5591-d60d-a59b-ff994cb40000
It seemed to me that over time, some of them became on edge... unstable. Sometimes they would start to cry, or begin to lose it. He was also one of those, who didn't look very stable.
to hold a person without letting them move any of their limbs, blindfolded, naked, under treatment, in the middle of the desert... in the end it's no less than torture
You don't really relate to them as if they're real human beings. It's easy to forget that when they don't move and you don't have to talk to them. You just have to check off that some medical procedure was done, and along the way you remove the whole human dimension of medicine."
"But in the end, what's happening there is total dehumanization. You don't really relate to them as if they're real human beings. It's easy to forget that when they don't move and you don't have to talk to them."
"Usually for a search, a Force 100 team of about 10 fighters showed up. They made the detainees lie on their stomachs, hands behind their head. During the first search I saw, after they were lying down, five inmates were taken out each time, according to some sort of order. They took them out violently, stood them up outside, faces to the fence, and searched them. Usually they pulled one of them out – I don't know whether randomly or not – and threw him onto the ground. They searched him there and also beat him a little. It looked like an excuse to sow terror. It wasn't an ordinary search. It was very violent, certainly for the guys they threw on the ground, who were beaten badly. They kept going, [taking] five at a time, until they searched them all and brought them back in.
"And there was something else. Force 100 would take something like 10 people from each lockup. They came with lists and knew who the people were. They took those guys aside and really laid into them. I know that this list was prepared by the military police and not by Military Intelligence or the Shin Bet [security service]. In other words, it wasn't in order to extract intelligence from them. They came with a list of names and beat them viciously. It was blows at a level that... I think that each time teeth were broken, bones were broken. Because there were really powerful blows
"For the blows themselves they were taken aside, to a more hidden place. The rest of the soldiers and detainees remained standing ... I saw those beatings: Six or 7 men, from Force 100, stand around one guy and kick him. Blows, slaps, punches, everything. Two or three of them stood to the side with weapons as guards. And there was also a dog."
How long did this last?
"Until they got tired of it. There were also times when they invited regular soldiers to take part in the beatings, from the guard units or from the military police. I don't know whether it was coordinated in advance with them, or they just called on them spontaneously, but it was a type of gesture to certain soldiers, who were in the loop.
"There were instances when I didn't see the beatings, but I did hear the punches or the shouts. They were very intense, the shouts. They were more intense than what I sometimes heard in other interrogations. Now, all this time, the dogs were also coming and barking and jumping on them. With a muzzle, yes, but scratching them and really scary. Ah... at the beginning there was also a stun grenade. Yes, every time a search like that started, Force 100 threw a stun grenade into the pen."
And then, when they returned the detainees, they simply threw them back into their places."
What do you mean, "threw"?
"Threw them. Like, they threw the guy and he falls down, on other people. He's blindfolded and shackled and he can't even brace himself for the fall."
What opportunities were there, for beating him?
"Because of the searches, I think his legs were broken, so every time he had to stand for the head count, for example, and he couldn't stand up. So that was an excuse to take him out and beat him some more."
But did he get beaten during every head count?
"Not in every head count, but quite a lot. Quite a lot."
Did he say anything?
"No, he looked exhausted. Sometimes he begged them to stop."
"Most of the guys were just fine with what was happening. There were some who were a little bothered by it, and there were others who were bothered by it at the start and then they toed the line with the system. "
"I relied on the idea that the bigger system knows what it needs to do and why it needed me there. I trust the army. And everything I saw at Sde Teiman looked to me, all in all, very logical, under the circumstances."
Guys came from the escort force, who in my opinion were military police reservists. They came in like big shots, with ski masks, and led three or four detainees out. They made them walk bent over, handcuffed and with flannelette on their faces. Each of them held the shirt of the person in front of him. And then suddenly I saw one of the police officers, right at the entrance to the pen, take the head of the first detainee and 'boom,' smash him with force into some iron part of the door. And then he smashed him again and said 'Yalla.' The moment I saw that I went into total shock. It was simply right opposite me... suddenly I saw someone with the thought going through his head that, 'Fine, this is not a human being. I can simply bash his head against the door. Just because I feel like it.' The nonchalant way he did it stunned me. He didn't look angry or full of hatred, he even laughed at it."
"Anyway, the [Druze] officer spoke with him for a few minutes in Arabic, and at the end the Palestinian began to cry. Weeping frantically. Then the officer came out, half guffawing, trying not to laugh. He said the guy talked about his life in Gaza, about his job, his family. He said he had gone to visit his brother, who was hospitalized in Shifa [Hospital], and that he was arrested there. When I asked, 'So why is he crying?' the officer said, 'Ah... he misses his wife, children, the family. He has no idea what's happening with them.'
"I don't know why the officer laughed. Maybe it was embarrassment, maybe he was contemptuous of the story, like he didn't believe it. But at the end of the shift, when I was about to go to sleep... Boom! The thoughts started to race. I sat on my bed and for hours I googled laws related to the incarceration of unlawful combatants. I did a session on ChatGPT and asked about crimes and rules of war. The next day I realized that I couldn't continue there any longer."
What was so dramatic about that moment?
"The detainee's story, and the fact that he started to cry in the end. It was a very human and surprising display after all the preparation and the things they tell you there. They keep pumping it into your brain that you have to disconnect. That they're not people. That they're not human beings."
there was a female officer who gave us a briefing on the day we arrived. She said, 'It will be hard for you. You'll want to pity them, but it's forbidden. Remember that they aren't people. From your point of view, they are not human beings. The best thing is to remember who they are and what they did in October
It's like in the movie 'The Wave' [a 1981 film about a high-school teacher who does a simulation experiment with his students how easily they can be made to lose their humanity]. Only in your face, and live. It was insane to see how that happens."
The dehumanization frightened me. I couldn't understand how a group of young people who were around me every day underwent such a dangerous process in such a short time.

Look-Up!

#3261
More indiscriminate bombing of women and children in a Gaza al-Mawasi 'safe zone', done with US supplied weaponry no doubt.

Not too much condemnation of it as usual from the good guys. Guess they're too bored.

Father Murphy

Quote from: Look-Up! on September 10, 2024, 02:02:23 PMMore indiscriminate bombing of women and children in a Gaza al-Mawasi 'safe zone', done with US supplied weaponry no doubt.

Not too much condemnation of it as usual from the good guys. Guess they're too bored.

I saw some images on X/Twitter last night - absolutely sickening. I don't think there is anybody on this board that wouldn't condemn it or attempt to justify it.

Look-Up!

Quote from: Father Murphy on September 10, 2024, 02:37:27 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on September 10, 2024, 02:02:23 PMMore indiscriminate bombing of women and children in a Gaza al-Mawasi 'safe zone', done with US supplied weaponry no doubt.

Not too much condemnation of it as usual from the good guys. Guess they're too bored.

I saw some images on X/Twitter last night - absolutely sickening. I don't think there is anybody on this board that wouldn't condemn it or attempt to justify it.
Very few Western political leaders condemning it or at least media not reporting on it. Preaching about western values, spreading democracy, decency or protection of the innocents is something we in the west have always liked to pontificate on, but it wears thinner every year. This is just outrageous.

Father Murphy

Quote from: Look-Up! on September 10, 2024, 02:53:33 PM
Quote from: Father Murphy on September 10, 2024, 02:37:27 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on September 10, 2024, 02:02:23 PMMore indiscriminate bombing of women and children in a Gaza al-Mawasi 'safe zone', done with US supplied weaponry no doubt.

Not too much condemnation of it as usual from the good guys. Guess they're too bored.

I saw some images on X/Twitter last night - absolutely sickening. I don't think there is anybody on this board that wouldn't condemn it or attempt to justify it.
Very few Western political leaders condemning it or at least media not reporting on it. Preaching about western values, spreading democracy, decency or protection of the innocents is something we in the west have always liked to pontificate on, but it wears thinner every year. This is just outrageous.

Israel should have been an international pariah long ago, even before the latest onslaught.

Netanyahu (not his real name) and the rest of the criminals running the show, belong in prison.

Look-Up!

Quote from: Father Murphy on September 10, 2024, 03:03:13 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on September 10, 2024, 02:53:33 PM
Quote from: Father Murphy on September 10, 2024, 02:37:27 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on September 10, 2024, 02:02:23 PMMore indiscriminate bombing of women and children in a Gaza al-Mawasi 'safe zone', done with US supplied weaponry no doubt.

Not too much condemnation of it as usual from the good guys. Guess they're too bored.

I saw some images on X/Twitter last night - absolutely sickening. I don't think there is anybody on this board that wouldn't condemn it or attempt to justify it.
Very few Western political leaders condemning it or at least media not reporting on it. Preaching about western values, spreading democracy, decency or protection of the innocents is something we in the west have always liked to pontificate on, but it wears thinner every year. This is just outrageous.

Israel should have been an international pariah long ago, even before the latest onslaught.

Netanyahu (not his real name) and the rest of the criminals running the show, belong in prison.

Along with Bush who enabled all this, ousted Arafat and cleared the way for Hamas. Remember a speech of his years ago on Palestine, as much as saying in a stalemate situation, genocide one way or the other resolves things. Absolutely crazy stuff for a world leader to come out with at the time but we're seeing those words in action today. Can't find the speech but another quote of his on escalating violence on Palestinians by increasing Israeli support was "sometimes a show for force by one side can really clarify things". Or opening a new war front and murder of hundreds of Lebanese civilians as the "birth pangs of a new Middle East".

Of course it's easy to blame Bush but there's been 12 years of Democrat government since out of 16, and another 8 years before he was in power, so can't see any difference for Palestinians no matter who gets in. The Blue side over there get very upset if they're all labelled 2 cheeks of the same arse, but they really are. 

seafoid

Israel now is pure evil. Netanyahu wants the Gazans to either turn on Hamas or else leave. He is the modern incarnation of Cromwell. The population of Gaza is confined to 12% of the territory. Population density is over 30,000 per square kilometer.  Meanwhile antisemitism is flourishing elsewhere. 

theskull1

It's a lot easier to sing karaoke than to sing opera

johnnycool

Quote from: seafoid on September 10, 2024, 04:29:27 PMIsrael now is pure evil. Netanyahu wants the Gazans to either turn on Hamas or else leave. He is the modern incarnation of Cromwell. The population of Gaza is confined to 12% of the territory. Population density is over 30,000 per square kilometer.  Meanwhile antisemitism is flourishing elsewhere

Where is antisemitism flourishing?

Bear in mind a lot of these Jews aren't Semites in the first place. Netanyahu is of Polish origins and the family changed their name.
Zionism is a very different issue and is the real problem here.


LC

Quote from: seafoid on September 10, 2024, 04:29:27 PMIsrael now is pure evil. Netanyahu wants the Gazans to either turn on Hamas or else leave. He is the modern incarnation of Cromwell. The population of Gaza is confined to 12% of the territory. Population density is over 30,000 per square kilometer.  Meanwhile antisemitism is flourishing elsewhere. 

You are being too generous.