I have drawn up my own rankings of the counties since the beginning of the qualifiers and quarter finals in 2001. I have decided to only award credit to counties who have reached the quarter finals. I considered giving credit to those who reached the last 12, but this skews the results unfairly towards Munster and Connacht counties who can occasionally reach the last 12 by default. (Example, this year Leitrim will reach the last 12 if they beat New York and London).
20 Counties have reached the last 8 since the inception of the qualifiers in 2001. I have ranked the counties by stats, not opinion. The 4 columns are for All Ireland, Runners Up, Semi Finalist, Quarter Finalist. I do not give additional credit for winning a provincial title except where the results throw up a draw. In the only case where this was relevant I have placed Roscommon above Westmeath beacuse Roscommon won 2 provincial titles to Westmeaths 1.
The most recent counties to be added to this list where Limerick in 2011. Down in 2010( who in typical Down fashion went straight from nowhere to an All-Ireland Final), and Wexford and Kildare in 2008, and Kildare have reached at least the QF every year since then.
I would be interested to hear if anyone has a better way of ranking the counties.
1. Kerry 4-4-2-2
2. Tyrone 3-0-1-5
3. Cork 1-2-5-1
4. Armagh 1-1-1-3
5. Dublin 1-0-5-5
6. Donegal 1-0-2-3
7. Galway 1-0-0-4
8. Mayo 0-3-1-3
9. Meath 0-1-2-1
10. Down 0-1-0-1
11. Derry 0-0-2-1
12. Kildare 0-0-1-4
13. Fermanagh 0-0-1-1
14. Wexford 0-0-1-0
15. Laois 0-0-0-4
16. Roscommon 0-0-0-3
17. Westmeath 0-0-0-3
18. Sligo 0-0-0-2
=19. Monaghan 0-0-0-1
=19. Limerick 0-0-0-1
Armagh seem very high there, but I know that's because of their early successes. I think it's fair enough as a historical view of how well teams have done since the arrival of the backdoor. Another slant on it, to give a more current picture would be to give more recent achievements a heavier weighting.
It is not meant to reflect the current state of teams. It is entirely an historical picture, but one that is maybe a lot more relevant than the roll of honour which appears in your All Ireland Final Programme which shows Wexford and Cavan away up the list with 5 All-Irelands each.
I think the Armagh position is fair enough because for the first half of the period covered they were a very serious team.
If I had put this up at the end of the 2010 season, Down would have been positioned above Dublin because of their AIF appearance, but I think with every year that goes by a more accurate picture is emerging.
Who will be the next county to break onto this list, Cavan? Offaly?, Louth?
Seems like a true enough reflection
Quote from: Feckitt on June 10, 2013, 12:19:44 PM
I have drawn up my own rankings of the counties since the beginning of the qualifiers and quarter finals in 2001. I have decided to only award credit to counties who have reached the quarter finals. I considered giving credit to those who reached the last 12, but this skews the results unfairly towards Munster and Connacht counties who can occasionally reach the last 12 by default. (Example, this year Leitrim will reach the last 12 if they beat New York and London).
20 Counties have reached the last 8 since the inception of the qualifiers in 2001. I have ranked the counties by stats, not opinion. The 4 columns are for All Ireland, Runners Up, Semi Finalist, Quarter Finalist. I do not give additional credit for winning a provincial title except where the results throw up a draw. In the only case where this was relevant I have placed Roscommon above Westmeath beacuse Roscommon won 2 provincial titles to Westmeaths 1.
The most recent counties to be added to this list where Limerick in 2011. Down in 2010( who in typical Down fashion went straight from nowhere to an All-Ireland Final), and Wexford and Kildare in 2008, and Kildare have reached at least the QF every year since then.
I would be interested to hear if anyone has a better way of ranking the counties.
1. Kerry 4-4-2-1
2. Tyrone 3-0-1-5
3. Cork 1-2-5-1
4. Armagh 1-1-1-3
5. Dublin 1-0-5-5
6. Donegal 1-0-2-3
7. Galway 1-0-0-4
8. Mayo 0-3-1-3
9. Meath 0-1-2-1
10. Down 0-1-0-1
11. Derry 0-0-2-2
12. Kildare 0-0-1-4
13. Fermanagh 0-0-1-1
14. Wexford 0-0-1-0
15. Laois 0-0-0-4
16. Roscommon 0-0-0-3
17. Westmeath 0-0-0-3
18. Sligo 0-0-0-2
=19. Monaghan 0-0-0-1
=19. Limerick 0-0-0-1
Thats quite interesting to see how successful the various teams have been. I've quickly tried to do a bit of (pointless) analysis based on points for each level of success to try and give a picture of consistency over the period rather than ranking based on titles won. I just randomly thought of gaving 5 points for an AI win, 3 points for a beaten finalist, 2 points for a semi final and 1 for a quarter. Those on equal points i ranked the using Feckitt method of most AI wins or highest finishes. Threw up a few differences in ranking - most notably Mayo moving to 5th.
1.Kerry 4-4-2-1 (37)
2.Tyrone 3-0-1-5 (22)
3.Cork 1-2-5-1 (22)
4.Dublin 1-0-5-5 (15)
5. Mayo 0-3-1-3 (14)
6. Armagh 1-1-1-3 (13)
7. Donegal 1-0-2-3 (12)
8. Galway 1-0-0-4 (9)
9. Meath 0-1-2-1 (8 )
10. Derry 0-0-2-2 (6)
11. Kildare 0-0-1-4 (6)
12. Down 0-1-0-1 (4)
13. Laois 0-0-0-4 (4)
14. Fermanagh 0-0-1-1 (3)
15. Roscommon 0-0-0-3 (3)
16. Westmeath 0-0-0-3 (3)
17. Wexford 0-0-1-0 (2)
18. Sligo 0-0-0-2 (2)
=19. Monaghan 0-0-0-1 (1)
=19. Limerick 0-0-0-1 (1)
Kildare are mediocre no matter how you slice it .
Deciding on the points for AI runner up is a bit like grading Olympic medal hauls.
BennyHarp, I also tried it out with a points total. The problem is that you end up with situations like Mayo being ranked above Armagh, Donegal and Galway. Yes they have consistently been a top team for the past 12 years, but would they swap it all for 1 All-Ireland? Of course they would. So in reality they are further down the list.
When you start giving out points for an All-Ireland defeat you have to think how many All Ireland finals is worth a victory? No amount of days in Croke Park will ever compare to winning the top prize, so Galway's 1 All -Ireland appearance tops Mayo's 3 appearances. That's the way it should be.
Quote from: Feckitt on June 10, 2013, 01:46:28 PM
BennyHarp, I also tried it out with a points total. The problem is that you end up with situations like Mayo being ranked above Armagh, Donegal and Galway. Yes they have consistently been a top team for the past 12 years, but would they swap it all for 1 All-Ireland? Of course they would. So in reality they are further down the list.
When you start giving out points for an All-Ireland defeat you have to think how many All Ireland finals is worth a victory? No amount of days in Croke Park will ever compare to winning the top prize, so Galway's 1 All -Ireland appearance tops Mayo's 3 appearances. That's the way it should be.
All Irelands are priceless . I am thinking about Stew watching the 02 final once a month or whatever it is . No semifinal or lost final gets anywhere near that.
Winning an all Ireland is like converting hope into something tangible and timeless.
You're right about that seafoid. I think awarding points based on performance does give a nice view of consistency, or competitiveness, but nothing compares with even 1 All Ireland win. I can still remember vividly all of Offaly's hurling and football All Irelands from the 80s and 90s. The unbelievable feeling after 1994 was phenomonal, as was the feeling of satisfaction in 1998. Oh for another day like that.
Quote from: Feckitt on June 10, 2013, 01:46:28 PM
BennyHarp, I also tried it out with a points total. The problem is that you end up with situations like Mayo being ranked above Armagh, Donegal and Galway. Yes they have consistently been a top team for the past 12 years, but would they swap it all for 1 All-Ireland? Of course they would. So in reality they are further down the list.
When you start giving out points for an All-Ireland defeat you have to think how many All Ireland finals is worth a victory? No amount of days in Croke Park will ever compare to winning the top prize, so Galway's 1 All -Ireland appearance tops Mayo's 3 appearances. That's the way it should be.
Yes, i totally agree - what i was suggesting was who are the more consistent teams of the decade - i.e. been there or thereabouts year in year out, so perhaps my focus was a bit different to yours.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 10, 2013, 02:17:14 PM
You're right about that seafoid. I think awarding points based on performance does give a nice view of consistency, or competitiveness, but nothing compares with even 1 All Ireland win. I can still remember vividly all of Offaly's hurling and football All Irelands from the 80s and 90s. The unbelievable feeling after 1994 was phenomonal, as was the feeling of satisfaction in 1998. Oh for another day like that.
I can name the all Ireland teams off by heart but don't ask me to remember any of the others .
That Sunday evening 5 o'clock September feeling with the muintir - nothing like it . And better than x club all Irelands, I would add.
How about this for a better way to rank it. Firstly you rank the teams by All-ireland victory alone. Then you award points for a loss, semi, quarter final appearance?
The only issue is then how much is each level worth. I would argue a semi is marginally more exciting than a quarterfinal. But getting the showpiece final, even losing it, is far higher prized over a semi, than a semi is prized over a quarter. So lets say 5 for a runner up, 2 for a semi and 1 for a quarter final. If you did that then the table would look exactly the same as you had it before except that Laois move up ahead of Wexford and Fermanagh (which I think is fair comment really). After that you pretty much have the same table. So I think it is a fair reflection of how teams have performed in the last decade.
I think cutting it down to the last five years would show a decent reflection of where teams are placed now. Fancy doing it and printing the results?
Ok Paul, last 5 years 2008-2012
1. Kerry 1-2-0-2
2. Cork 1-1-2-1
3. Dublin 1-0-2-1
4. Tyrone 1-0-1-2
5. Donegal 1-0-1-1
6. Mayo 0-1-1-1
7. Down 0-1-0-1
8. Kildare 0-0-1-3
9. Meath 0-0-1-1
10.Wexford 0-0-1-0
=11. Galway 0-0-0-1
=11. Armagh 0-0-0-1
=11. Roscommon 0-0-0-1
=14. Limerick 0-0-0-1
=14. Laois 0-0-0-1
I don't think the shorter timescale works as well. It doesnt give as full a picture. Donegal being 3 places behind Cork just doesnt feel right. Armagh and Galway are the big losers by switching to the last 5 years.
Mayo have to win an All Ireland if we want to climb up any sort of rankings it seems. 'Mon ta fcuk and let's do it!!!
Any ranking that puts Galway above Mayo has no value, Galway have done nothing in a very long time.
Why choose 2001?
Why not start in the year 2000 or ten years ago in 2003 season - 2012 season?
Does Mayo leap frog to third if we win just 1 All-Ireland?
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on June 10, 2013, 04:16:04 PM
Any ranking that puts Galway above Mayo has no value, Galway have done nothing in a very long time.
Why choose 2001?
Why not start in the year 2000 or ten years ago in 2003 season - 2012 season?
Does Mayo leap frog to third if we win just 1 All-Ireland?
In fairness, neither have Mayo.
Nobody in Galway would boast about the lost all Ireland finals of the 70s
Mayo have potential but they haven't converted it yet.
It's hard to believe that only Kerry & Tyrone have won more than 1 AI in the last 10 years.
Cork certainly should have had at least another one and probably the Dubs as they always win Leinster at a canter.
Before 2000 then Dublin have 2 going back to 1995, Cork have 3 if you include 1989, Meath have 4 if you go back to 1987 and Down have 2 going back to 1991.
So if we go back to 1980 which is 23 years then the table of titles reads
Kerry 11
Meath 4 (including 2 in a row 87 & 88)
Dublin 3
Cork 3 (including 2 in a row 89 & 90)
Tyrone 3
Down 2
Galway 2
Donegal 2
Tyrone & Donegal seem to be the only new kids on the block breaking in to the main contenders over the years. For the last year decades Dublin have only won one AI every decade. Will that change this year?
What's very interesting (relatively) is to track a team's progression or otherwise through the years in the All Ireland Series, since the Qualifiers were brought in. (Which is why 2001 is used I presume).
For example, Galway versus Mayo since 2001.
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/GalMay2001.png)
Or the Big 4 teams of the last decade...
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Big00s.png)
The legend is simple. 1 is first round of the qualifiers, each round of progression is the next number until 8 is All Ireland champion.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on June 10, 2013, 04:16:04 PM
Any ranking that puts Galway above Mayo has no value, Galway have done nothing in a very long time.
Why choose 2001?
Why not start in the year 2000 or ten years ago in 2003 season - 2012 season?
Does Mayo leap frog to third if we win just 1 All-Ireland?
If Mayo win even one All-Ireland then they deserve to be third or at least considered ranked up there with Cork. If they had won one, only Tyrone and Kerry would deserve to be considered better than Mayo in the last decade.
Let's be honest if Mayo could win this year's title then how could anyone honestly say Donegal have achieved more in the last ten years than Mayo? it would mean an All-Ireland, 3 runner up, and 3 NFL runner up. Mayo have been at the top table for a long time.
Out of the 12 years since the qualifiers started, Mayo have been in the quarter finals or better 7 times. That's Munster Holy Grail type consistency.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 10, 2013, 04:19:31 PM
It's hard to believe that only Kerry & Tyrone have won more than 1 AI in the last 10 years.
Cork certainly should have had at least another one and probably the Dubs as they always win Leinster at a canter.
Before 2000 then Dublin have 2 going back to 1995, Cork have 3 if you include 1989, Meath have 4 if you go back to 1987 and Down have 2 going back to 1991.
So if we go back to 1980 which is 23 33 years then the table of titles reads
Kerry 11
Meath 4 (including 2 in a row 87 & 88)
Dublin 3
Cork 3 (including 2 in a row 89 & 90)
Tyrone 3
Down 2
Galway 2
Donegal 2
Tyrone & Donegal seem to be the only new kids on the block breaking in to the main contenders over the years. For the last year decades Dublin have only won one AI every decade. Will that change this year?
Quote=19. Monaghan 0-0-0-1
If Monaghan had been in Munster/Connacht they might very well have been in a few QFs.
People talk about the difficulty of putting back to back titles together, but it also a fact that, over the last 30+ plus Years, many (most?) teams who win one AI, also win at least one more with a couple of years.
It will be interesting to see if the last three continue the trend.
Quote from: J70 on June 10, 2013, 05:18:45 PM
People talk about the difficulty of putting back to back titles together, but it also a fact that, over the last 30+ plus Years, many (most?) teams who win one AI, also win at least one more with a couple of years.
It will be interesting to see if the last three continue the trend.
Cork's window is closing fast but Donegal have a few years on the clock left and it seems almost inevitable that Dublin will win another.
Better craic doing the rankings of the worst 10, Kilkenny leading the way, but i wouldnt be sure who and in what order the rest would follow
Quote from: Syferus on June 10, 2013, 05:26:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 10, 2013, 05:18:45 PM
People talk about the difficulty of putting back to back titles together, but it also a fact that, over the last 30+ plus Years, many (most?) teams who win one AI, also win at least one more with a couple of years.
It will be interesting to see if the last three continue the trend.
Cork's window is closing fast but Donegal have a few years on the clock left and it seems almost inevitable that Dublin will win another.
Cork won the 2007, 2009 U-21 All Irelands and won the last three Munster U-21 titles the only window closing for them is for the older players.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 10, 2013, 07:16:47 PM
Quote from: Syferus on June 10, 2013, 05:26:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 10, 2013, 05:18:45 PM
People talk about the difficulty of putting back to back titles together, but it also a fact that, over the last 30+ plus Years, many (most?) teams who win one AI, also win at least one more with a couple of years.
It will be interesting to see if the last three continue the trend.
Cork's window is closing fast but Donegal have a few years on the clock left and it seems almost inevitable that Dublin will win another.
Cork won the 2007, 2009 U-21 All Irelands and won the last three Munster U-21 titles the only window closing for them is for the older players.
Underage success is no guarantee of future glory - which was the question, not that they would be a top level team - we know that very well, as do Galway, Armagh and a multitude of other counties.
Cork are a team on a downward incline right now and unless they unearth some real gems and keep lads like Colm O'Niell on their feet the likes of Dublin and Donegal will be immovable objects for them.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 10, 2013, 05:16:17 PM
Quote=19. Monaghan 0-0-0-1
If Monaghan had been in Munster/Connacht they might very well have been in a few QFs.
Similarly, Mayo might have won more All-Ireland's by playing in Ulster after the decline of Galway and as Roscommon slumbered mid-decade. Sligo was hit and miss.
Kerry might have won less All-Irelands but beat Tyrone on a regular basis if they had been in Ulster.
Dublin might have struggled against Mayo if they had been in Connacht (and against Galway in early part of decade), they may have never got past Kerry or Cork and not built as they have.
These sort of discussions are great for fans of Counties who have done well in the past to feel good about themselves in the present. Galway can live off winning a All Ireland 12 years ago and doing feck all since. Mayo can live of of the odd big scalp consistently and doing feck all else. In reality we don't really need analysis like this to show us that Kerry and Tyrone were the Top teams of the last while. Still I suppose it's a bit of fun!
Quote from: Syferus on June 10, 2013, 07:39:25 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 10, 2013, 07:16:47 PM
Quote from: Syferus on June 10, 2013, 05:26:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 10, 2013, 05:18:45 PM
People talk about the difficulty of putting back to back titles together, but it also a fact that, over the last 30+ plus Years, many (most?) teams who win one AI, also win at least one more with a couple of years.
It will be interesting to see if the last three continue the trend.
Cork's window is closing fast but Donegal have a few years on the clock left and it seems almost inevitable that Dublin will win another.
Cork won the 2007, 2009 U-21 All Irelands and won the last three Munster U-21 titles the only window closing for them is for the older players.
Underage success is no guarantee of future glory - which was the question, not that they would be a top level team - we know that very well, as do Galway, Armagh and a multitude of other counties.
Cork are a team on a downward incline right now and unless they unearth some real gems and keep lads like Colm O'Niell on their feet the likes of Dublin and Donegal will be immovable objects for them.
Colm O'Neill came from the 2007,09 U-21 teams as did Goudling,Kerrigan,Gould,Sheehan
Apart from Donegal who did win a minor,U-21 Ulster titles which of the top sides haven't had success at underage level? It's no guarantee however those that don't produce at senior level like Armagh,Galway have underachieved.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 10, 2013, 04:40:45 PM
What's very interesting (relatively) is to track a team's progression or otherwise through the years in the All Ireland Series, since the Qualifiers were brought in. (Which is why 2001 is used I presume).
For example, Galway versus Mayo since 2001.
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/GalMay2001.png)
The Mayo glass ceiling
And If Galway continue the trend they'll be at minus 2 by 2018
Quote from: Feckitt on June 10, 2013, 12:19:44 PM
I have drawn up my own rankings of the counties since the beginning of the qualifiers and quarter finals in 2001. I have decided to only award credit to counties who have reached the quarter finals. I considered giving credit to those who reached the last 12, but this skews the results unfairly towards Munster and Connacht counties who can occasionally reach the last 12 by default. (Example, this year Leitrim will reach the last 12 if they beat New York and London).
20 Counties have reached the last 8 since the inception of the qualifiers in 2001. I have ranked the counties by stats, not opinion. The 4 columns are for All Ireland, Runners Up, Semi Finalist, Quarter Finalist. I do not give additional credit for winning a provincial title except where the results throw up a draw. In the only case where this was relevant I have placed Roscommon above Westmeath beacuse Roscommon won 2 provincial titles to Westmeaths 1.
The most recent counties to be added to this list where Limerick in 2011. Down in 2010( who in typical Down fashion went straight from nowhere to an All-Ireland Final), and Wexford and Kildare in 2008, and Kildare have reached at least the QF every year since then.
I would be interested to hear if anyone has a better way of ranking the counties.
1. Kerry 4-4-2-1
2. Tyrone 3-0-1-5
3. Cork 1-2-5-1
4. Armagh 1-1-1-3
5. Dublin 1-0-5-5
6. Donegal 1-0-2-3
7. Galway 1-0-0-4
8. Mayo 0-3-1-3
9. Meath 0-1-2-1
10. Down 0-1-0-1
11. Derry 0-0-2-2
12. Kildare 0-0-1-4
13. Fermanagh 0-0-1-1
14. Wexford 0-0-1-0
15. Laois 0-0-0-4
16. Roscommon 0-0-0-3
17. Westmeath 0-0-0-3
18. Sligo 0-0-0-2
=19. Monaghan 0-0-0-1
=19. Limerick 0-0-0-1
I don't need results to rank my county:
1 Down
2 The Rest
If this isn't the way you all feel about your own county then you need to search your soul
(or move to Tyrone).
An alternative measure would be Allstars won.
This is simply a list of All-Irelands won, followed by teams who made the final only, followed by teams who made the semi-final only etc. It assumes reaching a level only once is worth reaching the previous level 10 times in a row. Thus a county winning 10 provincial titles in a row could be trumped by reaching a semi-final once ever and never winning a provincial title.
Quote from: Syferus on June 10, 2013, 07:39:25 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 10, 2013, 07:16:47 PM
Quote from: Syferus on June 10, 2013, 05:26:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 10, 2013, 05:18:45 PM
People talk about the difficulty of putting back to back titles together, but it also a fact that, over the last 30+ plus Years, many (most?) teams who win one AI, also win at least one more with a couple of years.
It will be interesting to see if the last three continue the trend.
Cork's window is closing fast but Donegal have a few years on the clock left and it seems almost inevitable that Dublin will win another.
Cork won the 2007, 2009 U-21 All Irelands and won the last three Munster U-21 titles the only window closing for them is for the older players.
Underage success is no guarantee of future glory - which was the question, not that they would be a top level team - we know that very well, as do Galway, Armagh and a multitude of other counties.
Cork are a team on a downward incline right now and unless they unearth some real gems and keep lads like Colm O'Niell on their feet the likes of Dublin and Donegal will be immovable objects for them.
Cork had 4 or 5 stand out players this year at u21. Brian Cahalane at Full Back, Jamie Wall, Tom Clancy Brian Hurley full forward
Daniel Goulding played very little if any football in the League this year They will be very strong contenders even without O Neill.
QuoteI don't need results to rank my county:
1 Down
2 The Rest
I'd favour
1 The Rest
2 Down
Quote from: rodney trotter on June 12, 2013, 06:36:56 PM
Quote from: Syferus on June 10, 2013, 07:39:25 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 10, 2013, 07:16:47 PM
Quote from: Syferus on June 10, 2013, 05:26:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 10, 2013, 05:18:45 PM
People talk about the difficulty of putting back to back titles together, but it also a fact that, over the last 30+ plus Years, many (most?) teams who win one AI, also win at least one more with a couple of years.
It will be interesting to see if the last three continue the trend.
Cork's window is closing fast but Donegal have a few years on the clock left and it seems almost inevitable that Dublin will win another.
Cork won the 2007, 2009 U-21 All Irelands and won the last three Munster U-21 titles the only window closing for them is for the older players.
Underage success is no guarantee of future glory - which was the question, not that they would be a top level team - we know that very well, as do Galway, Armagh and a multitude of other counties.
Cork are a team on a downward incline right now and unless they unearth some real gems and keep lads like Colm O'Niell on their feet the likes of Dublin and Donegal will be immovable objects for them.
Cork had 4 or 5 stand out players this year at u21. Brian Cahalane at Full Back, Jamie Wall, Tom Clancy Brian Hurley full forward
Daniel Goulding played very little if any football in the League this year They will be very strong contenders even without O Neill.
I think they are this year and maybe next year but after that the future is hazy. Even if they turn those U21s into great seniors I expect a drop-off for a couple of years.
The original question was how the last three AI winners would fair in winning a second title in quick succession; I think Cork are the ones with the smallest window on that account, especially given it's already three years since they won it.
Quote from: muppet on June 12, 2013, 06:11:44 PM
This is simply a list of All-Irelands won, followed by teams who made the final only, followed by teams who made the semi-final only etc. It assumes reaching a level only once is worth reaching the previous level 10 times in a row. Thus a county winning 10 provincial titles in a row could be trumped by reaching a semi-final once ever and never winning a provincial title.
We're working on a rating algorithm with Google, Muppet, but you'll have to give us your bank details to get it.
Quote from: Syferus on June 13, 2013, 02:13:34 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on June 12, 2013, 06:36:56 PM
Quote from: Syferus on June 10, 2013, 07:39:25 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 10, 2013, 07:16:47 PM
Quote from: Syferus on June 10, 2013, 05:26:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 10, 2013, 05:18:45 PM
People talk about the difficulty of putting back to back titles together, but it also a fact that, over the last 30+ plus Years, many (most?) teams who win one AI, also win at least one more with a couple of years.
It will be interesting to see if the last three continue the trend.
Cork's window is closing fast but Donegal have a few years on the clock left and it seems almost inevitable that Dublin will win another.
Cork won the 2007, 2009 U-21 All Irelands and won the last three Munster U-21 titles the only window closing for them is for the older players.
Underage success is no guarantee of future glory - which was the question, not that they would be a top level team - we know that very well, as do Galway, Armagh and a multitude of other counties.
Cork are a team on a downward incline right now and unless they unearth some real gems and keep lads like Colm O'Niell on their feet the likes of Dublin and Donegal will be immovable objects for them.
Cork had 4 or 5 stand out players this year at u21. Brian Cahalane at Full Back, Jamie Wall, Tom Clancy Brian Hurley full forward
Daniel Goulding played very little if any football in the League this year They will be very strong contenders even without O Neill.
I think they are this year and maybe next year but after that the future is hazy. Even if they turn those U21s into great seniors I expect a drop-off for a couple of years.
The original question was how the last three AI winners would fair in winning a second title in quick succession; I think Cork are the ones with the smallest window on that account, especially given it's already three years since they won it.
Can't see their future being that hazy tbh, Aidan Walsh is probably Corks best player and he is 23, Ciaran Sheehan is 23/24, Eoin Cadogan is 26 not over the hill yet, Paul Kerrigan is still 26, Colm O Neill once he gets back again from his latest injury, still has lots more time. Still 23
Canty and Pearse O Neill aren't getting any younger,but those those u21's will be able to step up to the mark.
I have updated my own rankings of the counties since the beginning of the qualifiers and quarter finals in 2001.
This is a list of the counties by total success since 2001, and not a current reflection of where counties stand in 2013. It gives a good reflection of where success has gone to since the start of the qualifiers.
Newcomers to the list this year are Cavan, and now 21 counties have reached the quarter finals. Despite remarkable consistency, Mayo still languish in 8th place, because everyone above them has won the All - Ireland.
1. Kerry 4-4-3-2
2. Tyrone 3-0-2-5
3. Dublin 2-0-5-5
4. Cork 1-2-5-2
5. Armagh 1-1-1-3
6. Donegal 1-0-2-4
7. Galway 1-0-0-4
8. Mayo 0-4-1-3
9. Meath 0-1-2-1
10. Down 0-1-0-1
11. Derry 0-0-2-1
12. Kildare 0-0-1-4
13. Fermanagh 0-0-1-1
14. Wexford 0-0-1-0
15. Laois 0-0-0-4
16. Roscommon 0-0-0-3
17. Westmeath 0-0-0-3
=18. Sligo 0-0-0-2
=18. Monaghan 0-0-0-2
=20. Limerick 0-0-0-1
=20. Cavan 0-0-0-1
Right lads, Here is the Roll of Honour since the inception of the Qualifiers system in 2001. Kerry stretch their lead over Tyrone and Donegal move above Armagh, no other major changes since last year. Kerry have played in 9 All Ireland finals since 2001 and I think Marc O'Se has played in them all. Mayo are still stuck in 8th place because all the counties above them have won the All Ireland. This is not a current state of the nation rankings. It is the overall success of counties since 2001.
1. Kerry 5-4-3-2
2. Tyrone 3-0-2-5
3. Dublin 2-0-6-5
4. Cork 1-2-5-3
5. Donegal 1-1-2-4
6. Armagh 1-1-1-4
7. Galway 1-0-0-5
8. Mayo 0-4-2-3
9. Meath 0-1-2-1
10. Down 0-1-0-1
11. Derry 0-0-2-1
12. Kildare 0-0-1-4
13. Fermanagh 0-0-1-1
14. Wexford 0-0-1-0
15. Laois 0-0-0-4
=16. Monaghan 0-0-0-3
=16. Roscommon 0-0-0-3
=16. Westmeath 0-0-0-3
19. Sligo 0-0-0-2
=20. Limerick 0-0-0-1
=20. Cavan 0-0-0-1
laoisman11 on Boards.ie has done an excellent job collating statistics and has a weighted ranking, this is ranking at the end of the season
Rank | Team | Rating points |
1 | Kerry | 103,57 |
2 | Donegal | 99,99 |
3 | Dublin | 98,27 |
4 | Mayo | 97,81 |
5 | Monaghan | 92,60 |
6 | Cork | 91,95 |
7 | Armagh | 90,93 |
8 | Tyrone | 90,50 |
9 | Kildare | 88,93 |
10 | Meath | 87,31 |
11 | Galway | 85,56 |
12 | Derry | 85,00 |
13 | Roscommon | 84,30 |
14 | Laois | 83,57 |
15 | Tipperary | 83,18 |
16 | Down | 82,14 |
17 | Louth | 79,14 |
18 | Cavan | 79,08 |
19 | Wexford | 76,79 |
20 | Clare | 76,04 |
21 | Sligo | 75,99 |
22 | Westmeath | 74,50 |
23 | Longford | 74,17 |
24 | Fermanagh | 72,87 |
25 | Limerick | 72,62 |
26 | Antrim | 70,57 |
27 | Wicklow | 70,05 |
28 | Leitrim | 69,68 |
29 | Offaly | 67,42 |
30 | London | 63,68 |
31 | Carlow | 63,20 |
32 | Waterford | 62,63 |
33 | New York | 57,54 |
His system shows Armagh, Kerry, Donegal and Tipp having improved their rank significantly during the championship, while Tyrone, Cork, Derry and Cavan lost significant ranking during the course of the championship.
Quote from: armaghniac on September 22, 2014, 08:08:56 PM
laoisman11 on Boards.ie has done an excellent job collating statistics and has a weighted ranking, this is ranking at the end of the season
Rank | Team | Rating points |
1 | Kerry | 103,57 |
2 | Donegal | 99,99 |
3 | Dublin | 98,27 |
4 | Mayo | 97,81 |
5 | Monaghan | 92,60 |
6 | Cork | 91,95 |
7 | Armagh | 90,93 |
8 | Tyrone | 90,50 |
9 | Kildare | 88,93 |
10 | Meath | 87,31 |
11 | Galway | 85,56 |
12 | Derry | 85,00 |
13 | Roscommon | 84,30 |
14 | Laois | 83,57 |
15 | Tipperary | 83,18 |
16 | Down | 82,14 |
17 | Louth | 79,14 |
18 | Cavan | 79,08 |
19 | Wexford | 76,79 |
20 | Clare | 76,04 |
21 | Sligo | 75,99 |
22 | Westmeath | 74,50 |
23 | Longford | 74,17 |
24 | Fermanagh | 72,87 |
25 | Limerick | 72,62 |
26 | Antrim | 70,57 |
27 | Wicklow | 70,05 |
28 | Leitrim | 69,68 |
29 | Offaly | 67,42 |
30 | London | 63,68 |
31 | Carlow | 63,20 |
32 | Waterford | 62,63 |
33 | New York | 57,54 |
His system shows Armagh, Kerry, Donegal and Tipp having improved their rank significantly during the championship, while Tyrone, Cork, Derry and Cavan lost significant ranking during the course of the championship.
Monaghan have surely been a good improver too, can't imagine we were there at the start of the year! I've read that thread and it's an excellent analysis using alot of information. He used that to make predictions before each match also and they were usually bang on, often to the winning margin even.
Some change to the top 4 since the quarter-finals!
Is there a link to that thread?
QuoteMonaghan have surely been a good improver too, can't imagine we were there at the start of the year!
Ulster champions?
Quote from: ONeill on September 22, 2014, 10:25:04 PM
Is there a link to that thread?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057173179
The Team of Gingers over there is good crack as well.
Cork would demolish Monaghan in a championship match.
Quote from: armaghniac on September 22, 2014, 10:41:44 PM
QuoteMonaghan have surely been a good improver too, can't imagine we were there at the start of the year!
Ulster champions?
Yeah a good 2013 but I wouldn't say we were that high all the same! Just looked there and seen the actual table for +/- change. Interested that Monaghan were down a tiny bit in points though up in the rankings, but that was from the start of the championship and after winning Division 2, as opposed to this time last year. Armagh definitely the big movers this year though.
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on September 22, 2014, 10:59:17 PM
Cork would demolish Monaghan in a championship match.
Demolish us if we met next year? They would in their hole. You do talk some scutter, 74 posts and almost all negative aul bollix, usually about a county north of you and your bros.
Quote from: Schkite on September 23, 2014, 01:23:40 AM
Yeah a good 2013 but I wouldn't say we were that high all the same! Just looked there and seen the actual table for +/- change. Interested that Monaghan were down a tiny bit in points though up in the rankings, but that was from the start of the championship and after winning Division 2, as opposed to this time last year. Armagh definitely the big movers this year though.
Monaghan won Ulster last year and then won Div 2, so came into the championship with a reasonable score, Armagh had been relegated so had a lower base to improve from.
Laoisman11's rankings look pretty solid at first glance.
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 23, 2014, 02:05:23 PM
Laoisman11's rankings look pretty solid at first glance.
Hard to accept there is that much between us and Kerry but the methodology is better than anything else I've seen.
Quote from: muppet on September 26, 2014, 09:35:25 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 23, 2014, 02:05:23 PM
Laoisman11's rankings look pretty solid at first glance.
Hard to accept there is that much between us and Kerry but the methodology is better than anything else I've seen.
There's 30 Celtic crosses between us :-\
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on September 22, 2014, 10:59:17 PM
Cork would demolish Monaghan in a championship match.
On what evidence?
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on September 22, 2014, 10:59:17 PM
Cork would demolish Monaghan in a championship match.
Cork are pretty much on par with Tipperary. Do you think Tipperary would demolish Monaghan?
Quote from: blanketattack on September 27, 2014, 12:06:08 AM
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on September 22, 2014, 10:59:17 PM
Cork would demolish Monaghan in a championship match.
Cork are pretty much on par with Tipperary. Do you think Tipperary would demolish Monaghan?
I think I've spotted where you went wrong there...
This guy has done good work and updated his rankings, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_football_rankings
Current state of play after the leagues, the chapionship may lead to bigger changes.
1 Dublin 101.23
2 Kerry 98.28
3 Donegal 96.52
4 Mayo 95.79
5 Cork 95.33
6 Monaghan 93.57
7 Tyrone 89.62
8 Armagh 87.68
9 Meath 87.65
10 Derry 87.2
11 Roscommon 86.02
12 Galway 84.54
13 Down 83.34
14 Kildare 82.83
15 Laois 82.23
16 Tipperary 81.19
17 Cavan 80.49
18 Fermanagh 77.86
19 Sligo 75.32
20 Longford 74.63
21 Westmeath 74.37
22 Clare 74.35
23 Limerick 74.09
24 Wexford 74.01
25 Louth 74
26 Offaly 73.19
27 Antrim 70.11
28 Leitrim 69.54
29 Wicklow 64.45
30 London 62.37
31 Carlow 62.27
32 New York 60.7
33 Waterford 60.33
I would say that is a fair reflection of Armagh, a decent run through the backdoor and they have the potential to reach the quarters again.
Look fairly reasonable. I'd argue we're better than Fermanagh but they beat us in Markievicz in the league and got promoted so the rankings are fully justifiable. Roscommon and Offaly could argue for being a few places higher and Waterford are better than NY.
Quote from: topcuppla on April 29, 2015, 09:16:47 AM
I would say that is a fair reflection of Armagh, a decent run through the backdoor and they have the potential to reach the quarters again.
I would have thought you boys would be raring to go in Ulster after beating Tyrone and running us very close last year!
Should we beat Tyrone, I would certainly be expecting a very tight match in the Ulster quarter final.
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 06:33:30 PM
Quote from: topcuppla on April 29, 2015, 09:16:47 AM
I would say that is a fair reflection of Armagh, a decent run through the backdoor and they have the potential to reach the quarters again.
I would have thought you boys would be raring to go in Ulster after beating Tyrone and running us very close last year!
Should we beat Tyrone, I would certainly be expecting a very tight match in the Ulster quarter final.
Last year Armagh got their act together in the championship in a way that they hadn't in the league and this is needed again this year, if they do then they may give Donegal a good game. Other than meeting Donegal early, I don't think on present form that they could beat anyone above Monaghan in the rankings in a later game.
Monaghan are a mile ahead of anyone else if you factor in population, resources etc, now most will say this does not count but we all know it does, so when the "top" team goes up to collect their "celtic cross" thanks to some multi euro deal and a professional set up in everything but name the truth is they were bought by big business but we all know that the Monaghans of this championship are the real heroes.
Yere rankings are a load of rubbish.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 29, 2015, 12:57:22 AM
This guy has done good work and updated his rankings, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_football_rankings
Current state of play after the leagues, the chapionship may lead to bigger changes.
1 Dublin 101.23
2 Kerry 98.28
3 Donegal 96.52
4 Mayo 95.79
5 Cork 95.33
6 Monaghan 93.57
7 Tyrone 89.62
8 Armagh 87.68
9 Meath 87.65
10 Derry 87.2
11 Roscommon 86.02
12 Galway 84.54
13 Down 83.34
14 Kildare 82.83
15 Laois 82.23
16 Tipperary 81.19
17 Cavan 80.49
18 Fermanagh 77.86
19 Sligo 75.32
20 Longford 74.63
21 Westmeath 74.37
22 Clare 74.35
23 Limerick 74.09
24 Wexford 74.01
25 Louth 74
26 Offaly 73.19
27 Antrim 70.11
28 Leitrim 69.54
29 Wicklow 64.45
30 London 62.37
31 Carlow 62.27
32 New York 60.7
33 Waterford 60.33
Should we not be higher?
Also, should we not be lower?
87.65 is ridiculous. We're at least 87.69.
Quote from: Hardy on May 01, 2015, 10:31:17 AM
87.65 is ridiculous. We're at least 87.69.
Not a fecking mission Hardy, don't you be going and getting notions above your station, you sit at your 87.65 and be thankful it's not 86.01!
Are Armagh really 0.03 points better than us?
I highly doubt it.
We could turn this into what fm radio station am I competition.
Quote from: Jinxy on May 01, 2015, 12:55:07 PM
Are Armagh really 0.03 points better than us?
I highly doubt it.
If you cast your mind back to July/August of 2014 that will give you an indication of why your 0.03 below Armagh and count yourselves lucky us BCB1 pointed out that your not a lot lower ;)
Quote from: Jinxy on May 01, 2015, 12:55:07 PM
Are Armagh really 0.03 points better than us?
I highly doubt it.
in all seriousness, Meath being so high is the only main surprise on that list
Quote from: giveballaghback on April 30, 2015, 07:29:12 PM
Monaghan are a mile ahead of anyone else if you factor in population, resources etc, now most will say this does not count but we all know it does, so when the "top" team goes up to collect their "celtic cross" thanks to some multi euro deal and a professional set up in everything but name the truth is they were bought by big business but we all know that the Monaghans of this championship are the real heroes.
Yere rankings are a load of rubbish.
I'd vote for you.
Quote from: JoG2 on May 01, 2015, 01:51:36 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 01, 2015, 12:55:07 PM
Are Armagh really 0.03 points better than us?
I highly doubt it.
in all seriousness, Meath being so high is the only main surprise on that list
JoG on pal.
Quote from: ONeill on May 02, 2015, 12:22:24 AM
Quote from: giveballaghback on April 30, 2015, 07:29:12 PM
Monaghan are a mile ahead of anyone else if you factor in population, resources etc, now most will say this does not count but we all know it does, so when the "top" team goes up to collect their "celtic cross" thanks to some multi euro deal and a professional set up in everything but name the truth is they were bought by big business but we all know that the Monaghans of this championship are the real heroes.
Yere rankings are a load of rubbish.
I'd vote for you.
Monaghan has only half the population of any county above it, and all of those counties have airports!
Build it and they will come..
Quote from: giveballaghback on April 30, 2015, 07:29:12 PM
Monaghan are a mile ahead of anyone else if you factor in population, resources etc, now most will say this does not count but we all know it does, so when the "top" team goes up to collect their "celtic cross" thanks to some multi euro deal and a professional set up in everything but name the truth is they were bought by big business but we all know that the Monaghans of this championship are the real heroes.
Yere rankings are a load of rubbish.
When you look at the stats it really is amazing to see how well Monaghan are doing with the resources they have. Below is the top 10 ranked counties (according to that list) with their populations and amount of gaa clubs.
| County | Population(rank in Ireland) | No. GAA Clubs(rank in Ireland) |
| 1 Dublin | 1,273,069(1st) | 92(2nd) |
| 2 Kerry | 145,502(14th) | 70(5th) |
| 3 Donegal | 161,137(12th) | 40(23rd) |
| 4 Mayo | 130,638(17th) | 50(12th) |
| 5 Cork | 519,032(4th) | 155(1st) |
| 6 Monaghan | 60,483(29th) | 33(26th) |
| 7 Tyrone | 179,000(10th) | 53(8th) |
| 8 Armagh | 174,792(11th) | 51(10th) |
| 9 Meath | 184,135(9th) | 59(7th) |
| 10 Derry | 247,132(6th) | 40(24th) |
Sources: https://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/2015AnnualReport.pdf (Page 80-81)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irish_counties_by_population
Quote from: Niall8100 on May 03, 2015, 01:46:22 PM
Quote from: giveballaghback on April 30, 2015, 07:29:12 PM
Monaghan are a mile ahead of anyone else if you factor in population, resources etc, now most will say this does not count but we all know it does, so when the "top" team goes up to collect their "celtic cross" thanks to some multi euro deal and a professional set up in everything but name the truth is they were bought by big business but we all know that the Monaghans of this championship are the real heroes.
Yere rankings are a load of rubbish.
When you look at the stats it really is amazing to see how well Monaghan are doing with the resources they have. Below is the top 10 ranked counties (according to that list) with their populations and amount of gaa clubs.
| County | Population(rank in Ireland) | No. GAA Clubs(rank in Ireland) |
| 1 Dublin | 1,273,069(1st) | 92(2nd) |
| 2 Kerry | 145,502(14th) | 70(5th) |
| 3 Donegal | 161,137(12th) | 40(23rd) |
| 4 Mayo | 130,638(17th) | 50(12th) |
| 5 Cork | 519,032(4th) | 155(1st) |
| 6 Monaghan | 60,483(29th) | 33(26th) |
| 7 Tyrone | 179,000(10th) | 53(8th) |
| 8 Armagh | 174,792(11th) | 51(10th) |
| 9 Meath | 184,135(9th) | 59(7th) |
| 10 Derry | 247,132(6th) | 40(24th) |
Sources: https://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/2015AnnualReport.pdf (Page 80-81)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irish_counties_by_population
the population stats don't take account of Unionist non interested elements
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjEkjeVzL34
Large swathes of Dublin are Man Utd territory as well, maybe for the better in terms of competition.
Monaghan have 15 ulsters but never closed the deal. Offaly have a smaller population but more malandragem.
Quote from: Niall8100 on May 03, 2015, 01:46:22 PM
Quote from: giveballaghback on April 30, 2015, 07:29:12 PM
Monaghan are a mile ahead of anyone else if you factor in population, resources etc, now most will say this does not count but we all know it does, so when the "top" team goes up to collect their "celtic cross" thanks to some multi euro deal and a professional set up in everything but name the truth is they were bought by big business but we all know that the Monaghans of this championship are the real heroes.
Yere rankings are a load of rubbish.
When you look at the stats it really is amazing to see how well Monaghan are doing with the resources they have. Below is the top 10 ranked counties (according to that list) with their populations and amount of gaa clubs.
| County | Population(rank in Ireland) | No. GAA Clubs(rank in Ireland) |
| 1 Dublin | 1,273,069(1st) | 92(2nd) |
| 2 Kerry | 145,502(14th) | 70(5th) |
| 3 Donegal | 161,137(12th) | 40(23rd) |
| 4 Mayo | 130,638(17th) | 50(12th) |
| 5 Cork | 519,032(4th) | 155(1st) |
| 6 Monaghan | 60,483(29th) | 33(26th) |
| 7 Tyrone | 179,000(10th) | 53(8th) |
| 8 Armagh | 174,792(11th) | 51(10th) |
| 9 Meath | 184,135(9th) | 59(7th) |
| 10 Derry | 247,132(6th) | 40(24th) |
Sources: https://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/2015AnnualReport.pdf (Page 80-81)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irish_counties_by_population
Be interested to see the sources for this as there are over 200 clubs in Cork. 220 or so I think. 74 in Kerry by my reckoning aswell.
Yes and don't forget that half of Armagh population are orange men :o
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on May 03, 2015, 11:11:36 PM
Quote from: Niall8100 on May 03, 2015, 01:46:22 PM
Quote from: giveballaghback on April 30, 2015, 07:29:12 PM
Monaghan are a mile ahead of anyone else if you factor in population, resources etc, now most will say this does not count but we all know it does, so when the "top" team goes up to collect their "celtic cross" thanks to some multi euro deal and a professional set up in everything but name the truth is they were bought by big business but we all know that the Monaghans of this championship are the real heroes.
Yere rankings are a load of rubbish.
When you look at the stats it really is amazing to see how well Monaghan are doing with the resources they have. Below is the top 10 ranked counties (according to that list) with their populations and amount of gaa clubs.
| County | Population(rank in Ireland) | No. GAA Clubs(rank in Ireland) |
| 1 Dublin | 1,273,069(1st) | 92(2nd) |
| 2 Kerry | 145,502(14th) | 70(5th) |
| 3 Donegal | 161,137(12th) | 40(23rd) |
| 4 Mayo | 130,638(17th) | 50(12th) |
| 5 Cork | 519,032(4th) | 155(1st) |
| 6 Monaghan | 60,483(29th) | 33(26th) |
| 7 Tyrone | 179,000(10th) | 53(8th) |
| 8 Armagh | 174,792(11th) | 51(10th) |
| 9 Meath | 184,135(9th) | 59(7th) |
| 10 Derry | 247,132(6th) | 40(24th) |
Sources: https://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/2015AnnualReport.pdf (Page 80-81)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irish_counties_by_population
Be interested to see the sources for this as there are over 200 clubs in Cork. 220 or so I think. 74 in Kerry by my reckoning aswell.
The Armagh figure seems a bit off too. There are only 45 clubs, between football and hurling, fielding in the county this year. 38 football only, 3 hurling only, and 4 dual clubs. The only way I can come up with 51 is by counting the dual clubs double and throwing in a couple of junior clubs that have folded in the last few years. That report doesn't seem to be the most reliable of documents.
155 clubs and no football supporters. It must be a strange life being a Cork IC footballer.
Don't know what to say then, I assumed the GAA's annual report would have the right figures.
Quote from: Niall8100 on May 04, 2015, 10:38:44 AM
Don't know what to say then, I assumed the GAA's annual report would have the right figures.
Wonder if it has anything to do with allocations of tickets for All-Ireland finals.
Might suit some county boards to have an extra club or two "on the books"
Also might be some places where clubs amalgamate at underage or for hurling which might add in a few extra individuals clubs if they are operating under a different name.
I forgot to update the roll of honour rankings after last years championship. This is the cumulative performances of counties from the beginning of the qualifiers in 2001 until now. Big movers last year were Dublin who overtook Tyrone and moved into second place. Perennial contenders Mayo continue to be only the 8th most successful team of the new century as all the other teams above them have won the All Ireland. Monaghan have moved slightly up the rankings, no other real changes.
This is not a current ranking, but an overview of what have been the most successful counties over the last 15 years. Teams like Armagh and Galway still rank highly due to their achievements in the earlier years. To date 21 counties have managed to reach the quarter finals in the last 15 years.
1. Kerry 4-5-3-2
2. Dublin 3-0-5-5
3. Tyrone 3-0-3-5
4. Cork 1-2-5-2
5. Armagh 1-1-1-3
6. Donegal 1-0-2-5
7. Galway 1-0-0-4
8. Mayo 0-4-2-3
9. Meath 0-1-2-1
10. Down 0-1-0-1
11. Derry 0-0-2-1
12. Kildare 0-0-1-5
13. Fermanagh 0-0-1-2
14. Wexford 0-0-1-0
15. Laois 0-0-0-4
=16. Roscommon 0-0-0-3
=16. Westmeath 0-0-0-3
=16. Monaghan 0-0-0-3
19. Sligo 0-0-0-2
=20. Limerick 0-0-0-1
=20. Cavan 0-0-0-1
Donegal beaten finalists in 2014.
There are only a total of 14 in each of the first two columns. If it's 2001 - 2015 (incl), and it seems to be as Galway have an AI to their name, then you're missing a year
(edit: seems to be 2014 as per StephenC above. Kerry should have 5: 2004, 06, 07, 09, 14)
Thanks Lads, I added 2015 results onto the 2013 figures and accidentally left out 2014. The figures now more accurately reflect the dominance that Kerry have enjoyed as always being there or thereabouts consistently since 2001. Dublin would need to win another 3 All Irelands before they would pass Kerry on the list. Donegal move above Armagh, and Monaghan move up the list another wee bit.
The figures used are obviously crude but I think give a true picture. Derry and Kildare may have played more big matches in Croke Park than Down, but they surely would've swapped all those days in the sun for a chance to play in the All Ireland Final in September. Likewise, Mayo have consistently been a top team throughout the last 15 years and have the All Ireland final appearances and Connacht titles to show for it, but deep down there is not a single Mayo man who would not swap it for 1 All-Ireland. That is why Galway and Armagh will always remain above them on this list.
1. Kerry 5-5-3-2
2. Dublin 3-0-6-5
3. Tyrone 3-0-3-5
4. Cork 1-2-5-3
5. Donegal 1-1-2-5
6. Armagh 1-1-1-4
7. Galway 1-0-0-5
8. Mayo 0-4-3-3
9. Meath 0-1-2-1
10. Down 0-1-0-1
11. Derry 0-0-2-1
12. Kildare 0-0-1-5
13. Fermanagh 0-0-1-2
14. Wexford 0-0-1-0
=15. Laois 0-0-0-4
=15. Monaghan 0-0-0-4
=17. Roscommon 0-0-0-3
=17. Westmeath 0-0-0-3
19. Sligo 0-0-0-2
=20. Limerick 0-0-0-1
=20. Cavan 0-0-0-1
155 clubs in Cork. That's incredible!!
Quote from: Feckitt on February 02, 2016, 08:24:13 AM
Thanks Lads, I added 2015 results onto the 2013 figures and accidentally left out 2014. The figures now more accurately reflect the dominance that Kerry have enjoyed as always being there or thereabouts consistently since 2001. Dublin would need to win another 3 All Irelands before they would pass Kerry on the list. Donegal move above Armagh, and Monaghan move up the list another wee bit.
The figures used are obviously crude but I think give a true picture. Derry and Kildare may have played more big matches in Croke Park than Down, but they surely would've swapped all those days in the sun for a chance to play in the All Ireland Final in September. Likewise, Mayo have consistently been a top team throughout the last 15 years and have the All Ireland final appearances and Connacht titles to show for it, but deep down there is not a single Mayo man who would not swap it for 1 All-Ireland. That is why Galway and Armagh will presently always remain above them on this list.
1. Kerry 5-5-3-2
2. Dublin 3-0-6-5
3. Tyrone 3-0-3-5
4. Cork 1-2-5-3
5. Donegal 1-1-2-5
6. Armagh 1-1-1-4
7. Galway 1-0-0-5
8. Mayo 0-4-3-3
9. Meath 0-1-2-1
10. Down 0-1-0-1
11. Derry 0-0-2-1
12. Kildare 0-0-1-5
13. Fermanagh 0-0-1-2
14. Wexford 0-0-1-0
=15. Laois 0-0-0-4
=15. Monaghan 0-0-0-4
=17. Roscommon 0-0-0-3
=17. Westmeath 0-0-0-3
19. Sligo 0-0-0-2
=20. Limerick 0-0-0-1
=20. Cavan 0-0-0-1
;)
Galway above Mayo is a joke.The Sam fetish
One great ranking system is the points exchange one utilised by Laoisman11(Football) and ZombieHanalei(Hurling) over on boards.ie (derived from Rogby's IRB rankings)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057173179&page=18 (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057173179&page=18)
# Δ Rank Team Rating points Δ Rating
1 steady Dublin 110.36 0.93
2 steady Kerry 102.69 -0.93
3 steady Mayo 97.00 -3.46
4 steady Tyrone 96.45 0.01
5 increase Monaghan 96.23 0.61
6 decrease Donegal 95.71 0.00
7 steady Kildare 93.41 0.57
8 increase Cork 92.82 3.46
9 decrease Galway 89.71 0.01
10 increase Derry 87.90 2.38
11 decrease Fermanagh 87.01 -2.38
12 increase Meath 84.18 1.16
13 decrease Roscommon 83.08 -0.61
14 steady Armagh 81.48 -1.16
15 steady Westmeath 79.99 -0.57
16 increase Tipperary 78.62 -0.37
17 decrease Sligo 77.68 -2.85
18 increase Down 77.27 0.00
19 decrease Longford 76.33 -1.90
20 increase Clare 76.31 2.86
21 decrease Wexford 75.86 0.08
22 decrease Cavan 75.27 0.00
23 increase Offaly 73.14 1.90
24 decrease Limerick 72.67 0.37
25 steady Antrim 72.42 0.72
26 decrease Laois 71.79 -0.01
27 steady Louth 70.84 0.39
28 steady Leitrim 64.48 -0.08
29 steady Wicklow 61.99 0.70
30 steady London 60.68 -0.39
31 steady Carlow 60.19 -0.73
32 steady New York 57.17 0.00
33 steady Waterford 55.62 -0.70
Interesting to note no team has had as high a rating as Dublin have now since Kerry in 1978.
Quote from: Feckitt on February 02, 2016, 08:24:13 AM
Thanks Lads, I added 2015 results onto the 2013 figures and accidentally left out 2014. The figures now more accurately reflect the dominance that Kerry have enjoyed as always being there or thereabouts consistently since 2001. Dublin would need to win another 3 All Irelands before they would pass Kerry on the list. Donegal move above Armagh, and Monaghan move up the list another wee bit.
The figures used are obviously crude but I think give a true picture. Derry and Kildare may have played more big matches in Croke Park than Down, but they surely would've swapped all those days in the sun for a chance to play in the All Ireland Final in September. Likewise, Mayo have consistently been a top team throughout the last 15 years and have the All Ireland final appearances and Connacht titles to show for it, but deep down there is not a single Mayo man who would not swap it for 1 All-Ireland. That is why Galway and Armagh will always remain above them on this list.
1. Kerry 5-5-3-2
2. Dublin 3-0-6-5
3. Tyrone 3-0-3-5
4. Cork 1-2-5-3
5. Donegal 1-1-2-5
6. Armagh 1-1-1-4
7. Galway 1-0-0-5
8. Mayo 0-4-3-3
9. Meath 0-1-2-1
10. Down 0-1-0-1
11. Derry 0-0-2-1
12. Kildare 0-0-1-5
13. Fermanagh 0-0-1-2
14. Wexford 0-0-1-0
=15. Laois 0-0-0-4
=15. Monaghan 0-0-0-4
=17. Roscommon 0-0-0-3
=17. Westmeath 0-0-0-3
19. Sligo 0-0-0-2
=20. Limerick 0-0-0-1
=20. Cavan 0-0-0-1
As an Armagh man I certainly wouldn't swap our All Ireland for Mayo's greater consistency over the 15 years. However I did re-rank your table based on a points system (AI winners 5pts, Runners-up 3 pts, Semis 2pt Q/Fs 1pt). It did move some counties.
Kerry 5 5 3 2 48
Dublin 3 0 6 5 32
Tyrone 3 0 3 5 26
Cork 1 2 5 3 24
Mayo 0 4 3 3 21
Donegal 1 1 2 5 17
Armagh 1 1 1 4 14
Galway 1 0 0 5 10
Meath 0 1 2 1 8
Kildare 0 0 1 5 7
Derry 0 0 2 1 5
Down 0 1 0 1 4
Fermanagh 0 0 1 2 4
Laois 0 0 0 4 4
Monaghan 0 0 0 4 4
Roscommon 0 0 0 3 3
Westmeath 0 0 0 3 3
Wexford 0 0 1 0 2
Sligo 0 0 0 2 2
Limerick 0 0 0 1 1
Cavan 0 0 0 1 1and by province
ulster 5 3 9 23 75
munster 6 7 8 6 73
leinster 3 1 10 18 56
connacht 1 4 3 13 36
One problem with this is that in Connacht and Munster there are only two well rated teams, who may well meet in the Provincial final and both likely reach the QFs. An Ulster team might get dumped into the qualifiers at an early stage and meet another decent team early on.
Laoisman's rankings from Boards.ie after the League.
Likely some changes ahead over the summer!!! Armagh swapping places with Cavan would be a good start.
Rank | Δ Rank | Team | Δ Rating | Δ Rating Jan 2016 | Δ Ranking Jan 2016 |
1 | = | Dublin | 112.01 | 1.12 | 2.58 | 0 |
2 | = | Kerry | 102.22 | -1.12 | -1.40 | 0 |
3 | = | Mayo | 96.72 | 0.00 | -3.74 | 0 |
4 | = | Tyrone | 95.83 | 0.63 | -0.62 | 0 |
5 | = | Donegal | 93.27 | 0.00 | -2.44 | 0 |
6 | = | Monaghan | 92.51 | 0.00 | -3.11 | 0 |
7 | = | Cork | 91.15 | 0.00 | 1.79 | 3 |
8 | ▲ | Roscommon | 90.47 | 0.00 | 6.78 | 4 |
9 | ▼ | Kildare | 88.42 | -2.62 | -4.42 | -2 |
10 | = | Cavan | 85.91 | -0.63 | 10.64 | 11 |
11 | = | Galway | 85.89 | 0.00 | -3.81 | -3 |
| 12 | = | Fermanagh | 84.85 | 0.00 | -4.54 | -3 |
13 | = | Armagh | 83.87 | 0.00 | 1.23 | 1 |
14 | ▲ 3 | Clare | 82.51 | 2.62 | 9.06 | 8 |
15 | ▼ | Meath | 82.43 | 0.00 | -0.59 | -2 |
16 | ▼ | Derry | 81.87 | 0.00 | -3.65 | -5 |
17 | ▼ | Longford | 79.98 | 0.00 | 1.75 | 1 |
18 | = | Sligo | 78.88 | 0.00 | -1.66 | -2 |
19 | = | Tipperary | 77.79 | 0.00 | -1.20 | -2 |
20 | = | Westmeath | 77.33 | 0.00 | -3.23 | -5 |
21 | = | Down | 76.81 | 0.00 | -0.46 | -2 |
22 | = | Offaly | 76.25 | 0.00 | 5.01 | 4 |
23 | ▲ 3 | Louth | 74.49 | 1.66 | 4.04 | 4 |
24 | = | Wexford | 73.26 | 0.00 | -2.52 | -4 |
25 | = | Laois | 73.14 | 0.00 | 1.34 | -1 |
26 | ▼ 3 | Antrim | 72.79 | -1.66 | 1.09 | -1 |
27 | = | Limerick | 66.99 | 0.00 | -5.31 | -4 |
28 | = | Wicklow | 61.94 | 0.00 | 0.65 | 1 |
29 | = | Leitrim | 61.23 | 0.00 | -3.33 | -1 |
30 | = | Carlow | 61.20 | 0.00 | 0.29 | 1 |
31 | = | Waterford | 59.14 | 0.00 | 2.82 | 2 |
32 | = | London | 58.03 | 0.00 | -3.04 | -2 |
33 | = | New York | 57.17 | 0.00 | 0.00 | -1 |
Beating cork in an all Ireland final shouldn't be worth as much as beating Donegal.
Quote from: seafoid on April 29, 2016, 03:55:24 AM
Beating cork in an all Ireland final shouldn't be worth as much as beating Donegal.
As Donegal are more highly ranked at present than Cork, it would be.
I have updated these rankings for the first time since 2015, and remarkably the only change in the entire top 10 is Dublin overtaking Kerry. The figures used are obviously crude but I think give a true picture of the most successful teams since the launch of the qualifiers in 2001. Derry and Kildare may have played more big matches in Croke Park than Down, but they surely would've swapped all those days in the sun for a chance to play in the All Ireland Final in September. Likewise, Mayo have consistently been a top team throughout the last 19 years and have the All Ireland final appearances and Connacht titles to show for it, but deep down there is not a single Mayo man who would not swap it for 1 All-Ireland. That is why Galway and Armagh will always remain above them on this list.
23 teams have now made it to the quarter finals, which is interesting with talk of a tier 2 championship.
1. Dublin 7-0-6-5
2. Kerry 5-6-5-3
3. Tyrone 3-1-5-6
4. Cork 1-2-5-4
5. Donegal 1-1-2-8
6. Armagh 1-1-1-5
7. Galway 1-0-1-7
8. Mayo 0-6-4-3
9. Meath 0-1-2-2
10. Down 0-1-0-1
11. Derry 0-0-2-1
12. Kildare 0-0-1-6
13. Monaghan 0-0-1-5
14. Fermanagh 0-0-1-2
=15. Wexford 0-0-1-0
=15. Tipperary 0-0-1-0
17. Roscommon 0-0-0-6
18. Laois 0-0-0-4
19. Westmeath 0-0-0-3
20. Sligo 0-0-0-2
=21. Limerick 0-0-0-1
=21. Cavan 0-0-0-1
=21. Clare 0-0-0-1
Quote from: Feckitt on September 20, 2019, 06:55:13 PM
I have updated these rankings for the first time since 2015, and remarkably the only change in the entire top 10 is Dublin overtaking Kerry. The figures used are obviously crude but I think give a true picture of the most successful teams since the launch of the qualifiers in 2001. Derry and Kildare may have played more big matches in Croke Park than Down, but they surely would've swapped all those days in the sun for a chance to play in the All Ireland Final in September. Likewise, Mayo have consistently been a top team throughout the last 19 years and have the All Ireland final appearances and Connacht titles to show for it, but deep down there is not a single Mayo man who would not swap it for 1 All-Ireland. That is why Galway and Armagh will always remain above them on this list.
23 teams have now made it to the quarter finals, which is interesting with talk of a tier 2 championship.
1. Dublin 7-0-6-5
2. Kerry 5-6-5-3
3. Tyrone 3-1-5-6
4. Cork 1-2-5-4
5. Donegal 1-1-2-8
6. Armagh 1-1-1-5
7. Galway 1-0-1-7
8. Mayo 0-6-4-3
9. Meath 0-1-2-2
10. Down 0-1-0-1
11. Derry 0-0-2-1
12. Kildare 0-0-1-6
13. Monaghan 0-0-1-5
14. Fermanagh 0-0-1-2
=15. Wexford 0-0-1-0
=15. Tipperary 0-0-1-0
17. Roscommon 0-0-0-6
18. Laois 0-0-0-4
19. Westmeath 0-0-0-3
20. Sligo 0-0-0-2
=21. Limerick 0-0-0-1
=21. Cavan 0-0-0-1
=21. Clare 0-0-0-1
Don't give up the day job!
Quote from: Feckitt on September 20, 2019, 06:55:13 PM
I have updated these rankings for the first time since 2015, and remarkably the only change in the entire top 10 is Dublin overtaking Kerry. The figures used are obviously crude but I think give a true picture of the most successful teams since the launch of the qualifiers in 2001. Derry and Kildare may have played more big matches in Croke Park than Down, but they surely would've swapped all those days in the sun for a chance to play in the All Ireland Final in September. Likewise, Mayo have consistently been a top team throughout the last 19 years and have the All Ireland final appearances and Connacht titles to show for it, but deep down there is not a single Mayo man who would not swap it for 1 All-Ireland. That is why Galway and Armagh will always remain above them on this list.
23 teams have now made it to the quarter finals, which is interesting with talk of a tier 2 championship.
1. Dublin 7-0-6-5
2. Kerry 5-6-5-3
3. Tyrone 3-1-5-6
4. Cork 1-2-5-4
5. Donegal 1-1-2-8
6. Armagh 1-1-1-5
7. Galway 1-0-1-7
8. Mayo 0-6-4-3
9. Meath 0-1-2-2
10. Down 0-1-0-1
11. Derry 0-0-2-1
12. Kildare 0-0-1-6
13. Monaghan 0-0-1-5
14. Fermanagh 0-0-1-2
=15. Wexford 0-0-1-0
=15. Tipperary 0-0-1-0
17. Roscommon 0-0-0-6
18. Laois 0-0-0-4
19. Westmeath 0-0-0-3
20. Sligo 0-0-0-2
=21. Limerick 0-0-0-1
=21. Cavan 0-0-0-1
=21. Clare 0-0-0-1
Would say Paddy Prendergast is happy enough
Looking at that your methods to measure teams has clearly failed. Take cavan. Beat Monaghan and armagh to make Ulster final, won a game in div1 all be it they got relegated. They are now ranked 21 or over?
It's based over 19 years which is a bit pointless.
2015 to 19 might have some relevance.
Quote from: Rossfan on September 21, 2019, 12:44:25 PM
It's based over 19 years which is a bit pointless.
2015 to 19 might have some relevance.
It has relevance if you are trying to skew a system that makes Armagh look more relevant in the modern game than they really are.
I've calculated all the finishing positions in the National League for the decade just gone 2010 - 2019. 1 point for winning Div 1, 9 points for winning division 2 etc, etc.
In the last decade Dublin, Kerry & Mayo have never been relegated from Division 1, London & Leitrim are the only teams to have spent the entire decade in Div 4, but Leitrim will start 2020 in Division 3. Derry, Laois, Westmeath & Roscommon have been in all 4 divisions within 10 years!
The totals are as follows
1. Dublin 21
2. Kerry 37
3. Mayo 41
4. Cork 60
5. Tyrone 66
6. Donegal 70
7. Monaghan 77
8. Galway 90
9. Down 103
10. Kildare 110
11. Meath 128
12. Derry 129
13. Armagh 132
14. Roscommon 143
15. Cavan 151
16. Laois 152
17. Westmeath 165
18. Louth 179
19. Fermanagh 190
20. Tipperary 198
21. Sligo 201
22. Clare 214
23. Longford 220
24. Wexford 221
25. Offaly 225
26. Antrim 238
27. Limerick 257
28. Wicklow 284
29. Carlow 286
30. Waterford 288
31. Leitrim 289
32. London 315