Colm O'Rourke vs. the GPA

[Zulu]

Hmmm, so posts in a GPA topic, referring to comments by one of the most prominent GPA members and referencing how his tune has changed because he is now (financially I presume) ok and one referring to the timing of it has nothing to do with the GPA and are simply comments on the individual? If that's true then if Seamus Moynihan had said it I presume the lads would have implied the exact same things about him and his motives?

You may be trying to pick these things out as they may suit your agenda but I don't see any clamor on here all rushing to say that!!
Two posters?

IMO I don't care what Donal og said then and now - as a country let alone sporting organisation , we can't sustain professional intercounty players.

The GPA and GAA need to become more transparent
- they could open up crime park, now they can open up their books!
Let's see the gaa expenditure  , us the salaries , expenses and criteria for awards and who gets them ( club grants and scholarships)

I know you mean well Zulu - but it's obv you are a GPA follower and you look like you are trying to skew the discussion with minute petty non examples.

+1

I think the GPA were set up for the right reasons but it feels as if they are now an old boys club. Financing themselves, funding their own salaries, junkets to USA and looking after the cream of high profile players. It just leaves a bad taste in the mouth of many, especially at a time when the average club player is almost being disowned by the GAA with a lack of respect for club fixtures.

I think every GAA person will agree that it's time to swing the pendulum back towards grass roots and club fixtures. The last people who have interest in club, grass roots and the ordinary club player is the GPA!

Lynchbhoy, first off I'm not a supporter of the GPA. I rarely bring them up here but I do defend them against the often ridiculous criticisms that pop up here. I support looking after our top players and feel it's unrealistic to try and look after everyone. However, lets have a quick look at the most recent 'criticisms' of the GPA posted here -

I've already dealt with the daft reaction to Cusack's comments. But now we have ck coming along throwing about generalities without a scrap of evidence or any balance to his post. Since when is a section of the GAA financing and funding themselves a bad thing, Jesus if only a few more did that we'd all be better off, how that's a bad thing is beyond me. Then we have the old 'junkets' to the US nonsense, when people want to give out about any trip it's termed a 'junket' the GAA president and many other high profile figures go on trips abroad are they all junkets with no purpose or good to them? Ck also claims they only look after the cream of the high profile players, can he prove this accusation I wonder? I'm waiting with baited breath.

You, lynchbhoy, have asked for more transparency and I've no problem with that but I also trust the GAA to run their affairs well and I'm quite sure no matter what money was spent on there'd be people giving out so as long as the bottom line is ok I'm happy to let the GAA look after the small print. I'm sure their are legalities at play here anyway.

CK, of course everyone would like to see the club player get better treatment but that's the role of the GAA and county boards. The GPA could only agitate for a clear defined goal that everyone agrees with and good luck with that.

You are clearly a big fan of the current GPA structure where a self appointed body is allowed to self fundraise, so they can self fund, all in the name of elite players. Of course it's the 10% minority of players that are looked after, are you suggesting otherwise?
The 90% playing majority have their fixtures abandoned during summer months, with not a sinner to speak up for them, meanwhile the "GAA" stand idly by. The current GPA/County dominated season is as far removed from the ethos of the GAA as it gets.

Also to address your point about wouldn't it be great if other bodies self funded. What a mess of an organisation we would have if everyone ran around fundraising for themselves!

Time for change!

Not surprising a GPA basher claims something that is unsupported by facts, let me make this clear, again!!! I'm not a supporter of the GPA but I want GAA players supported and I see little in what the GPA are doing or trying to do as anything to be getting worried about. The scaremongers like ML have gone from telling us they are stealthy trying to get a professional GAA to now implying they are engaging in some kind of financial high jinks or is he just worried they are overspending GAA money on stationary?

Can you explain how they are 'self appointed'? And while you're at it can you explain who will fund a GPA representing very player and what they can do and how they can implement change for every club player. Further enlighten me on whether they should represent every club player in Ireland, I'm presuming yes, as to do otherwise would be elitist. Are the GPA, like ML suggested, just to be a shadow fixtures committee who will kick up a fuss if the junior B hurling championship isn't getting played on time? Or should their brief be more, should they help with depression, employment and education for all players, if so how can this be funded and should the the club player who only plays if their isn't a clash with soccer or some other sport get to avail of all of this?

You ignored my question asking for evidence to back up your previous claims but maybe you could map out this utopian future you see because if it can be done I'll be your biggest supporter?

[CSC]

The big issue that I have with the GPA is the whole club 'v' county play thing

For example, in the 90's the GPA pushed for more championship games that lead to the knockout series that inturn screwed up the majority of the club players, by having their season condensed.

The other thing that pisses me off about the GPA is their arrogance and stupidity. I mean,  in the history of unions, has there ever been an example where the union started out by setting a policy that would seriously restrict their membership, resulting in a reduction of bargaining power. Unions were designed to give the masses collective power against the elite ruling classes. But the GPA .....? Stupid strategy !!

Imagine a union for all the players, setting out convention policies to the benefit of club and county players that they would like to get approved, then using the entire player base to influence family and friends to get the motions approved via club AGMs, county AGMs and congress. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that that was the way to properly influence the gaa, by shear numbers, not by stealth in committees run by "ruling classes"

If it came to a vote to go professional, how many clubs would support it? I bet a large number of clubs would vote against it, as it would hurt their player base. I bet a  large number of club players would vote against it too.

The GPA believes thar big projects (hurling side shows at ND football games, where the game wasn't even held in the stadium, WTF), commercialisation of players is the be all and end all, where it should be focused on is the benefit of all players.

Club player union needs to be started soon.

[ck]

No point complaining about GAA/GPA unless we an provide a better way forward, so here's mine.

- Two seasons per year 1. County season (Jan - June) 2. Club season (May - Oct)
- Scrap minor, U.21 and pre season competitions. Replace with u.19 which is played pre senior games
- If an U.19 player plays senior he is no longer eligible to play U.19
- GPA become elected body to represent all players. Voted in by all players. 1 GPA rep per county
- GAA issue fixtures template for every county for county and club seasons

[lynchbhoy]

Hmmm, so posts in a GPA topic, referring to comments by one of the most prominent GPA members and referencing how his tune has changed because he is now (financially I presume) ok and one referring to the timing of it has nothing to do with the GPA and are simply comments on the individual? If that's true then if Seamus Moynihan had said it I presume the lads would have implied the exact same things about him and his motives?

You may be trying to pick these things out as they may suit your agenda but I don't see any clamor on here all rushing to say that!!
Two posters?

IMO I don't care what Donal og said then and now - as a country let alone sporting organisation , we can't sustain professional intercounty players.

The GPA and GAA need to become more transparent
- they could open up crime park, now they can open up their books!
Let's see the gaa expenditure  , us the salaries , expenses and criteria for awards and who gets them ( club grants and scholarships)

I know you mean well Zulu - but it's obv you are a GPA follower and you look like you are trying to skew the discussion with minute petty non examples.

+1

I think the GPA were set up for the right reasons but it feels as if they are now an old boys club. Financing themselves, funding their own salaries, junkets to USA and looking after the cream of high profile players. It just leaves a bad taste in the mouth of many, especially at a time when the average club player is almost being disowned by the GAA with a lack of respect for club fixtures.

I think every GAA person will agree that it's time to swing the pendulum back towards grass roots and club fixtures. The last people who have interest in club, grass roots and the ordinary club player is the GPA!

Lynchbhoy, first off I'm not a supporter of the GPA. I rarely bring them up here but I do defend them against the often ridiculous criticisms that pop up here. I support looking after our top players and feel it's unrealistic to try and look after everyone. However, lets have a quick look at the most recent 'criticisms' of the GPA posted here -

I've already dealt with the daft reaction to Cusack's comments. But now we have ck coming along throwing about generalities without a scrap of evidence or any balance to his post. Since when is a section of the GAA financing and funding themselves a bad thing, Jesus if only a few more did that we'd all be better off, how that's a bad thing is beyond me. Then we have the old 'junkets' to the US nonsense, when people want to give out about any trip it's termed a 'junket' the GAA president and many other high profile figures go on trips abroad are they all junkets with no purpose or good to them? Ck also claims they only look after the cream of the high profile players, can he prove this accusation I wonder? I'm waiting with baited breath.

You, lynchbhoy, have asked for more transparency and I've no problem with that but I also trust the GAA to run their affairs well and I'm quite sure no matter what money was spent on there'd be people giving out so as long as the bottom line is ok I'm happy to let the GAA look after the small print. I'm sure their are legalities at play here anyway.

CK, of course everyone would like to see the club player get better treatment but that's the role of the GAA and county boards. The GPA could only agitate for a clear defined goal that everyone agrees with and good luck with that.

no real argument as you agree with my call for transparency on GAA and GPA

however the bit in bold.
I refer you to human nature, and politicians/government.
Irish water, banks, promisory notes etc etc etc

you place trust in people to often find out later that this trust was misplaced.

opening up the books and greater transparency on all aspects would ensure there is proper understanding and if anything was not good enough, then it would be pointed out.
yes lunatics and whingers might continually whinge. but a procedural vehicle (though county boards) to lodge questions, complaints, ideas etc should be created. that would stop any diluge of whinges and silliness from having to be dealt with. just the pertinent correct questions/requests for info etc.

I know that imo the GAA are spending way too much money on a certain thing. this should be addressed. We have a few good guys doing their best to run croke park , but that this expense is happening shows there is a lacking of ability/knowledge/quality in this particular area.
imo
I only know about it as the vendor disclosed certain information to me as he was trying to sell me something.

greater transparency would really help out the GAA - and US - as we are the GAA and it is our money. This would actually help those in Croke park/HQ imo!
transparency would do the same for GPA. assist rather than inhibit.

Fair enough and if they decide to do that great but I don't think it's a major issue. If transparency is your only issue with the GPA then we have little to disagree about, if they do as you ask I'd be fine with to but I'm happy the GAA and GPA have implemented the correct checks and balances to avoid major misuse of GAA money.

Mostly agree with you .
Just though -
1. Not enough transparency for us to make informed decisions or opinions on that last bit

2. From the bit I know I sadly believe it's not as efficient or economical as it should be

I know they have the best intentions but that's just not good enough


I believe there should be a lot more done with regard to resolving fixtures conundrum and policies to cover club players

IMO there isn't enough money for any level of professionalism

[ha ha derry]

No point complaining about GAA/GPA unless we an provide a better way forward, so here's mine.

- Two seasons per year 1. County season (Jan - June) 2. Club season (May - Oct)
- Scrap minor, U.21 and pre season competitions. Replace with u.19 which is played pre senior games
- If an U.19 player plays senior he is no longer eligible to play U.19
- GPA become elected body to represent all players. Voted in by all players. 1 GPA rep per county
- GAA issue fixtures template for every county for county and club seasons

Very simple, clear and concise. Would be the way to go.

[blewuporstuffed]

No point complaining about GAA/GPA unless we an provide a better way forward, so here's mine.

- Two seasons per year 1. County season (Jan - June) 2. Club season (May - Oct)
- Scrap minor, U.21 and pre season competitions. Replace with u.19 which is played pre senior games
- If an U.19 player plays senior he is no longer eligible to play U.19
- GPA become elected body to represent all players. Voted in by all players. 1 GPA rep per county
- GAA issue fixtures template for every county for county and club seasons

That actually sounds like it has some merit CK.
What we need is someone in the GPA/GAA to sit down with that idea and flesh it out to see if it is feasible when you add in all the fixtures.

[deiseach]

No point complaining about GAA/GPA unless we an provide a better way forward, so here's mine.

- Two seasons per year 1. County season (Jan - June) 2. Club season (May - Oct)
- Scrap minor, U.21 and pre season competitions. Replace with u.19 which is played pre senior games
- If an U.19 player plays senior he is no longer eligible to play U.19
- GPA become elected body to represent all players. Voted in by all players. 1 GPA rep per county
- GAA issue fixtures template for every county for county and club seasons

Does anyone really want the county season to end in June? It would be a complete non-starter in hurling. However, I can appreciate the rest of your manifesto, and the last one has to be the biggest no-brainer imaginable.

[blewuporstuffed]

No point complaining about GAA/GPA unless we an provide a better way forward, so here's mine.

- Two seasons per year 1. County season (Jan - June) 2. Club season (May - Oct)
- Scrap minor, U.21 and pre season competitions. Replace with u.19 which is played pre senior games
- If an U.19 player plays senior he is no longer eligible to play U.19
- GPA become elected body to represent all players. Voted in by all players. 1 GPA rep per county
- GAA issue fixtures template for every county for county and club seasons

Does anyone really want the county season to end in June? It would be a complete non-starter in hurling. However, I can appreciate the rest of your manifesto, and the last one has to be the biggest no-brainer imaginable.

]
i would prefer it finished in june rather than both it and the club season being dragged over the whole year with fixtures fired in everywhere

[deiseach]

i would prefer it finished in june rather than both it and the club season being dragged over the whole year with fixtures fired in everywhere

That's fair enough. But it doesn't have to be an either/or choice.

[AZOffaly]

Also, there will not be a master fixtures template that works for everyone, so unless you mean the County issues its own master list, then this is not going to be feasible.

[Hound]

Also, there will not be a master fixtures template that works for everyone, so unless you mean the County issues its own master list, then this is not going to be feasible.

Exactly, fixture list is not a central problem, its up to each individual county to sort out themselves.
I would find it bizarre if any county did not issue a master fixture list at the beginning of the season. That's child's play.

The big issue is sticking to it.

Dual players, inter-county managers, replays and county boards with no backbone, being the 4 biggest problems (in no particular order) I can think of to sticking with the master fixture list.

Doing away with replays would improve the lot of a club player in an instant. "Next score the winner" if still level after extra time (which would also be awesome entertainment and create huge controversy!)

[five points]

Dual players, inter-county managers, replays and county boards with no backbone, being the 4 biggest problems (in no particular order) I can think of to sticking with the master fixture list.

The fifth is surely clubs refusing to play a game until Johnny is recovered from injury/back from suspension/home from holidays/sobered up from the stag/has the garden done so the wife will let him go to matches again.

Doing away with replays would improve the lot of a club player in an instant. "Next score the winner" if still level after extra time (which would also be awesome entertainment and create huge controversy!)

+1. Would be serious craic.

[Rossfan]

The fifth is surely clubs refusing to play a game until Johnny is recovered from injury/back from suspension/home from holidays/sobered up from the stag/has the garden done so the wife will let him go to matches again.
[

and of course  can't play any Club championship games in June or July till all the Students come back from the US.

[lynchbhoy]

GPA have contacted all their members to compile a list of the things they have done for them over the past few years - to answer brolly's article last week.

[rrhf]

Will this list be exhaustive?  Brolly could be in real trouble here.