3 children found dead in a house in Dublin

[seafoid]

Is that realistic in this day and age?

How are you going to keep something like that out of the news and the public discourse? Someone, somewhere, will put it out.

Same thing with mass murder sprees in the US.

Maybe allow reporting but only according to strict guidelines

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/hawe-case-irish-society-unlikely-to-learn-from-murder-suicide-1.2777711
"Prof Ella Arensman, director of research at the National Suicide Research Foundation, has spoken out in recent days about the media's coverage of the Hawe case as being too graphic.
Like other professionals who work in the suicide and self-harm prevention area, she argued that when details of how people kill themselves and others are published, it can lead to copycat events."

Nobody's kids deserve to die in copycat incidents

I would absolutely favour restrictions on reporting to spare the relatives (what about reporting on inquests and trials though?), but anyone intent on committing such an act is not going to find themselves short of methods and ways to do it, not matter what restrictions on reporting exist.

I agree but they may not be as inclined to kill the kids as well.

[Eamonnca1]

I don't think there's a one size fits all explanation for these things.
They are horrific, sad and heart wrenching acts no matter what the situation.

There are different scenarios, or reasons for want of a better word, that I can think of.

Evil - simply put an evil act of terror against children/wife/husband. No mental health issues, just a pre-meditated action of violence against a vulnerable person or child.

Mental Health - Suicidal tendancies brought on by depression/abuse/ptsd and those feelings of worthlessness and being a burden on family and society becoming so overwhelming that in their head, the only option is suicide. From what exposure I've had of this, the option of suicide is not a selfish one, but one which in the head of that person is actually for the benefit of the people who would be affected. So a mother might believe that it is for the benefit of her children that she is dead. A husband might think he is so much of a burden on his wife, that she'd be better off if he's dead. I know this sounds wrong, but in the head of the person who commits suicide this logic adds up. Only my experience....and I'm not saying it would be the same for everyone and i'm not trying to condone any of the actions.

Mental Health - Murder Suicide. I can only imagine that this is an extreme case of the suicidal situation. Where in the head of the person doing the killing, that the children (in this case) would be better off dead than living.  Or it could be that the person wants to commit suicide, but cant bear to leave the children behind so decides to take them too. Of course, this is all irrational thought and behaviour and I honestly think in this situation the act is not an evil act but one of desperation and illogical thought brought on by illness.

I see comments along the lines of ...."why could they not just kill themselves", or "why did they not speak to someone"....for me, I think in the head of the person committing suicide or murder/suicide, it's not a decision but rather a compulsion they have no actual control over. Mentally their brain is not working correctly. I know many will disagree, but I've had a family member in the past who is lucky to have survived and this was how they explained it to me after the events.
I'm not trying to condone any of these actions, as those 3 kids were absolutely innocent of anything and victims no matter how you look at it. But perhaps the mother is not evil....perhaps she is extremely ill for what ever reason.

I just think it's unfair to speak about her in terms of being evil or could she just have killed herself, until the facts are known. I realise it was unfair to the children what happened to them and it's unimaginable how terrified they must have been, but its not helpful to anyone to pass comment on those involved at this time, especially not to the family left behind.

Indeed. The word "evil" is a satisfying one to say, especially in a case like this, but it's a bit of a cop-out in that it admits defeat in the mission to understand why these things happen. People do bad things because in their minds they're doing the right thing. Even Hitler thought he was doing Germany a favour even though he rounded up and murdered so many Germans. Trying to understand the twisted logic behind it is not the same as condoning it.

So Hitler wasn't evil?    Can you say you understand the "twisted logic" of Adolf Hitler?

No, Tric. I don't think Hitler wasn't evil. Please go back and read my post again, then come back to me with questions if you're still missing the point or if you don't think I'm being clear enough.

Do you think someone who kills innocent children is evil or would you simply conclude that in their minds they were trying to do the right thing?  It's amazing in today's society - especial the self-righteous on boards such as this, go out off their way to be more and more liberal, to the point they will condone everything, which is a very easy and admiral trait, except if any of these horrors were to God forbid in some guise land at their own doorstep, the high horse stance would soon dissipate!

Bye, Fox. Another sock puppet on ignore.

[Eamonnca1]

Is that realistic in this day and age?

How are you going to keep something like that out of the news and the public discourse? Someone, somewhere, will put it out.

Same thing with mass murder sprees in the US.

Maybe allow reporting but only according to strict guidelines

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/hawe-case-irish-society-unlikely-to-learn-from-murder-suicide-1.2777711
"Prof Ella Arensman, director of research at the National Suicide Research Foundation, has spoken out in recent days about the media's coverage of the Hawe case as being too graphic.
Like other professionals who work in the suicide and self-harm prevention area, she argued that when details of how people kill themselves and others are published, it can lead to copycat events."

Nobody's kids deserve to die in copycat incidents

I've noticed in the US they've changed the way they report on mass shootings. They used to showcase the shooter's name, broadcast his videos and entire manifesto. Now they don't even mention the shooter's name, to say nothing of his video or motives.

[Joeythelips]

It's so sad to read the story, those poor children. But we can't fully judge until we know the full picture. As posters have said maybe mental health issues were involved, maybe abuse who knows.

It's all well and good to put labels on things like 'Evil' but it teaches us nothing about this tragedy. Our goal should be to learn the full truth of what unfolded and how it came about and see can we as a society learn anything from this.

[AFM]

I don't think there's a one size fits all explanation for these things.
They are horrific, sad and heart wrenching acts no matter what the situation.

There are different scenarios, or reasons for want of a better word, that I can think of.

Evil - simply put an evil act of terror against children/wife/husband. No mental health issues, just a pre-meditated action of violence against a vulnerable person or child.

Mental Health - Suicidal tendancies brought on by depression/abuse/ptsd and those feelings of worthlessness and being a burden on family and society becoming so overwhelming that in their head, the only option is suicide. From what exposure I've had of this, the option of suicide is not a selfish one, but one which in the head of that person is actually for the benefit of the people who would be affected. So a mother might believe that it is for the benefit of her children that she is dead. A husband might think he is so much of a burden on his wife, that she'd be better off if he's dead. I know this sounds wrong, but in the head of the person who commits suicide this logic adds up. Only my experience....and I'm not saying it would be the same for everyone and i'm not trying to condone any of the actions.

Mental Health - Murder Suicide. I can only imagine that this is an extreme case of the suicidal situation. Where in the head of the person doing the killing, that the children (in this case) would be better off dead than living.  Or it could be that the person wants to commit suicide, but cant bear to leave the children behind so decides to take them too. Of course, this is all irrational thought and behaviour and I honestly think in this situation the act is not an evil act but one of desperation and illogical thought brought on by illness.

I see comments along the lines of ...."why could they not just kill themselves", or "why did they not speak to someone"....for me, I think in the head of the person committing suicide or murder/suicide, it's not a decision but rather a compulsion they have no actual control over. Mentally their brain is not working correctly. I know many will disagree, but I've had a family member in the past who is lucky to have survived and this was how they explained it to me after the events.
I'm not trying to condone any of these actions, as those 3 kids were absolutely innocent of anything and victims no matter how you look at it. But perhaps the mother is not evil....perhaps she is extremely ill for what ever reason.

I just think it's unfair to speak about her in terms of being evil or could she just have killed herself, until the facts are known. I realise it was unfair to the children what happened to them and it's unimaginable how terrified they must have been, but its not helpful to anyone to pass comment on those involved at this time, especially not to the family left behind.

Indeed. The word "evil" is a satisfying one to say, especially in a case like this, but it's a bit of a cop-out in that it admits defeat in the mission to understand why these things happen. People do bad things because in their minds they're doing the right thing. Even Hitler thought he was doing Germany a favour even though he rounded up and murdered so many Germans. Trying to understand the twisted logic behind it is not the same as condoning it.

So Hitler wasn't evil?    Can you say you understand the "twisted logic" of Adolf Hitler?

No, Tric. I don't think Hitler wasn't evil. Please go back and read my post again, then come back to me with questions if you're still missing the point or if you don't think I'm being clear enough.

Do you think someone who kills innocent children is evil or would you simply conclude that in their minds they were trying to do the right thing?  It's amazing in today's society - especial the self-righteous on boards such as this, go out off their way to be more and more liberal, to the point they will condone everything, which is a very easy and admiral trait, except if any of these horrors were to God forbid in some guise land at their own doorstep, the high horse stance would soon dissipate!

Bye, Fox. Another sock puppet on ignore.

Poor Eamonn can't debate just pontificate - sad man.

[brokencrossbar1]

You genuinely cannot provide a full judgement on this or any such case without knowing the whole facts. We live in a world today where we are so fast to pass judgement and be seen to pass judgement. This woman could have had severe mental health issues, chronically depressed, maybe some history of being subjected to violence, maybe some history of subjecting others to violence, she may just be evil as someone stated above but to be honest with the images of those 3 darlings I don't believe that is the case.

To kill a child is horrendous but when someone's mind goes it is hard to seen reason at all. Wait till the evidence comes out then make judgements.

[seafoid]

You genuinely cannot provide a full judgement on this or any such case without knowing the whole facts. We live in a world today where we are so fast to pass judgement and be seen to pass judgement. This woman could have had severe mental health issues, chronically depressed, maybe some history of being subjected to violence, maybe some history of subjecting others to violence, she may just be evil as someone stated above but to be honest with the images of those 3 darlings I don't believe that is the case.

To kill a child is horrendous but when someone's mind goes it is hard to seen reason at all. Wait till the evidence comes out then make judgements.

Well said.

What is awful is the finality of it.

[GetOverTheBar]

You genuinely cannot provide a full judgement on this or any such case without knowing the whole facts. We live in a world today where we are so fast to pass judgement and be seen to pass judgement. This woman could have had severe mental health issues, chronically depressed, maybe some history of being subjected to violence, maybe some history of subjecting others to violence, she may just be evil as someone stated above but to be honest with the images of those 3 darlings I don't believe that is the case.

To kill a child is horrendous but when someone's mind goes it is hard to seen reason at all. Wait till the evidence comes out then make judgements.

Hard to argue this one, especially when on the face of it there is nothing untoward. It'll all come out soon enough but maybe this is one of the cases we shouldn't speculate as we have absolutely nothing to go on right now.

[tbrick18]

You genuinely cannot provide a full judgement on this or any such case without knowing the whole facts. We live in a world today where we are so fast to pass judgement and be seen to pass judgement. This woman could have had severe mental health issues, chronically depressed, maybe some history of being subjected to violence, maybe some history of subjecting others to violence, she may just be evil as someone stated above but to be honest with the images of those 3 darlings I don't believe that is the case.

To kill a child is horrendous but when someone's mind goes it is hard to seen reason at all. Wait till the evidence comes out then make judgements.

100%
It's hard to imagine how someone could do something like this to their own children without there being some kind of underlying issues, but we simply don't know.
No-one knows what is going on behind anyone's door or inside anyone's head so its unfair and unjust to pass judgement without knowing the facts.
The sad fact is that 3 beautiful children have died under tragic and horrific circumstances, a father and husband has been left devastated and a mother and wife has been charged with murder and is undergoing psychiatric assessment. 

[Dire Ear]

Just heart-breaking;  those poor innocent children suffering for the "sins" of others

[93-DY-SAM]

Just read about the funeral service there a short time ago. Has to be one of the most heartbreaking things I have read in a long time.

[armaghniac]

Just read about the funeral service as short time ago. Has to be one of the most heartbreaking things I have read in a long time.

You had children there from the youth club and national schools etc. It must be hard for the rest of the parents to explain why a mother would kill her own children.

[trailer]

Awful. God help this poor man.

[macdanger2]

Just read about the funeral service there a short time ago. Has to be one of the most heartbreaking things I have read in a long time.

Same. The full text of the father's eulogy is on rte.ie, it's very sad

[Baile Brigín 2]

You genuinely cannot provide a full judgement on this or any such case without knowing the whole facts. We live in a world today where we are so fast to pass judgement and be seen to pass judgement. This woman could have had severe mental health issues, chronically depressed, maybe some history of being subjected to violence, maybe some history of subjecting others to violence, she may just be evil as someone stated above but to be honest with the images of those 3 darlings I don't believe that is the case.

To kill a child is horrendous but when someone's mind goes it is hard to seen reason at all. Wait till the evidence comes out then make judgements.

I think the judgements were a lot nicer than in the Hawe case.