Joe Brolly

[screenexile]

I think it says more about the people of creegan and the gaa club to be honest (and i would knew players his age from school) which i drive through each day, lad 4 houses up the road from me joined the police, played underage fball with us, nobody local had a problem with it, but he is never about anymore encase outsiders track him from the house which is sad. The reaction of his friends / teammates was pathetic, and childish, and the intimidation from the activists (ie: Sinn fein) says alot about them. Sure is life not rosy now as sinn fein are on the police board, joining the police now is ok cause they say so but no back then.

This is bull.
The reaction of his teammates is entirely understandable. What is not understandable is the suggestion that anyone would support an attack or want to see the lad hurt.
The cold response to joining the PSNI was expected and justified. This does not make those people bad people or people capable of hurting anyone. It's ok to be annoyed.

You're on entirely the wrong side of this argument vallunkumous!!!

[MoChara]

I think it says more about the people of creegan and the gaa club to be honest (and i would knew players his age from school) which i drive through each day, lad 4 houses up the road from me joined the police, played underage fball with us, nobody local had a problem with it, but he is never about anymore encase outsiders track him from the house which is sad. The reaction of his friends / teammates was pathetic, and childish, and the intimidation from the activists (ie: Sinn fein) says alot about them. Sure is life not rosy now as sinn fein are on the police board, joining the police now is ok cause they say so but no back then.

This is bull.
The reaction of his teammates is entirely understandable. What is not understandable is the suggestion that anyone would support an attack or want to see the lad hurt.
The cold response to joining the PSNI was expected and justified. This does not make those people bad people or people capable of hurting anyone. It's ok to be annoyed.

Absolutely the cold response to him joining the cops was justified, are people suppose to just accept as fact this was a new police force and it would be totally different, especially as we know now about how the RUC personnel that got paid of on the Friday started again on the Monday.

[vallankumous]

Why on earth was a cold respone from his teammates "justified".

Nationalists spent decades trying to get rid of the RUC & have it replaced. The PSNI was the result of those efforts. Was it perfect? No. Is it perfect today? No.

But guess what? No police force is perfect & one way of ensuring same old same old was for nationalists to turn their backs on the new force. Brave men like Peadar paid the price for insular thinking & cowardice & I for one applaud him for it & I applaud Joe Brolly for highighting it.

I understand that perfectly. I'm also able to bring myself back to that time and remember what I thought.

It may be that I was wrong to think that at the time no one should join the PSNI. I did think it though and I believe I had good reason.
My dislike for the PSNI has mellowed over time and perhaps that is due to men like this but there are probably many more factors.

I believe I am a good man, I was then too. I did honestly not like anyone joining the PSNI at that time.
I was not a coward to think this, my mother was not a coward to think the same. In saying that neither of us would have wished any harm to come to anyone who decided to join.

[vallankumous]

You're on entirely the wrong side of this argument vallunkumous!!!

It's the price of an accurate memory.

What we see in this article and the massive response to it is the winners writing the history.

[general_lee]

It's quite a hard hitting article. In 2002 the police had changed names but not much else. Joining was obviously going to do more than raise eyebrows. I'd say you'd have got a similar response in most clubs back then, however hard people might find that fact to accept.

When I think of legacy cases involving their predecessors now that the PSNI continually try to block in the courts, it's hard not to feel the same disgust as I did for the RUC. Only 5 years previous they were complicit in the Loyalist murder of a GAA man a few miles up the road, so maybe that was still fresh in the memory.

Reading back now, the treatment and sentiment of his club mates doesn't look good but I can certainly understand it. Heffron himself even acknowledges his own naivity; and that coupled with his stubbornness ultimatey was his downfall. Those who gave information which led to his attack however are cowards.

[Milltown Row2]

I think it says more about the people of creegan and the gaa club to be honest (and i would knew players his age from school) which i drive through each day, lad 4 houses up the road from me joined the police, played underage fball with us, nobody local had a problem with it, but he is never about anymore encase outsiders track him from the house which is sad. The reaction of his friends / teammates was pathetic, and childish, and the intimidation from the activists (ie: Sinn fein) says alot about them. Sure is life not rosy now as sinn fein are on the police board, joining the police now is ok cause they say so but no back then.

This is bull.
The reaction of his teammates is entirely understandable. What is not understandable is the suggestion that anyone would support an attack or want to see the lad hurt.
The cold response to joining the PSNI was expected and justified. This does not make those people bad people or people capable of hurting anyone. It's ok to be annoyed.

Absolutely the cold response to him joining the cops was justified, are people suppose to just accept as fact this was a new police force and it would be totally different, especially as we know now about how the RUC personnel that got paid of on the Friday started again on the Monday.

Either we have a peace process or we don't, there can't be an in-between, the shinners voted for a new police force!

And yes in all jobs lads will have got paid off one day and re-joined the next... you can't overhaul an institution like the RUC overnight, not even in 10 years could you possibly change that internal mindset.. its got to be in generations, all previous serving RUC need to retire or even the serving PSNI officers with the same mindset need to go also before we can get the type of policing you can trust!

Once it was agreed by the political parties, blowing up policemen/women should have ceased and views on new recruits from the catholic side should have been accepted, brave decision to apply for a post that in previous years was a constant death threat, maybe foolishly people believed that things would work its way out, trust is so hard to crack when so many people have had horrendous experiences from the RUC for no reason... Though if you were an active republican you would have to accept your fate, they didn't go into this blind and knew what would happen should they find themselves caught, it was a war after all.

You'd have to find it difficult not to find some sympathy for him, he joined during the peace process, would not have joined before it I'd say, it was the will of the political parties to bring it together and for him he feels let down, I don't see much wrong in what he's said

[Wildweasel74]

Val in a way you like our equivalent of a die hard dup supporter; still stuck in the past! You all be happy if the police was 100% protestant like the good ole days! How come he was shudded in creggan but when a lad where i live done the same 10-12yrs ago there wasnt a problem; people maybe suprised but nobody took offence or wished him harm! Creggan come out if this looking very poorly especially after the bomb

[MoChara]

I think it says more about the people of creegan and the gaa club to be honest (and i would knew players his age from school) which i drive through each day, lad 4 houses up the road from me joined the police, played underage fball with us, nobody local had a problem with it, but he is never about anymore encase outsiders track him from the house which is sad. The reaction of his friends / teammates was pathetic, and childish, and the intimidation from the activists (ie: Sinn fein) says alot about them. Sure is life not rosy now as sinn fein are on the police board, joining the police now is ok cause they say so but no back then.

This is bull.
The reaction of his teammates is entirely understandable. What is not understandable is the suggestion that anyone would support an attack or want to see the lad hurt.
The cold response to joining the PSNI was expected and justified. This does not make those people bad people or people capable of hurting anyone. It's ok to be annoyed.

Absolutely the cold response to him joining the cops was justified, are people suppose to just accept as fact this was a new police force and it would be totally different, especially as we know now about how the RUC personnel that got paid of on the Friday started again on the Monday.

Either we have a peace process or we don't, there can't be an in-between, the shinners voted for a new police force!

And yes in all jobs lads will have got paid off one day and re-joined the next... you can't overhaul an institution like the RUC overnight, not even in 10 years could you possibly change that internal mindset.. its got to be in generations, all previous serving RUC need to retire or even the serving PSNI officers with the same mindset need to go also before we can get the type of policing you can trust!

Once it was agreed by the political parties, blowing up policemen/women should have ceased and views on new recruits from the catholic side should have been accepted, brave decision to apply for a post that in previous years was a constant death threat, maybe foolishly people believed that things would work its way out, trust is so hard to crack when so many people have had horrendous experiences from the RUC for no reason... Though if you were an active republican you would have to accept your fate, they didn't go into this blind and knew what would happen should they find themselves caught, it was a war after all.

You'd have to find it difficult not to find some sympathy for him, he joined during the peace process, would not have joined before it I'd say, it was the will of the political parties to bring it together and for him he feels let down, I don't see much wrong in what he's said

It was people outside the Peace Process that took his leg and it was decade after he had joined.

As you say it can take an organisation like the PSNI years to over haul itself with systematic and structured effort so how would anyone expect a community to change its opinion over night just because a political party in hotel down the country decided. I'm sure you remember yourself, the grassroots shinners about the country swearing blind they'd never support the police.

[Wildweasel74]

Cause it seems this political party dictated to the people of the area to the point they allowed in a changing room during training to intimate players and it taken as normal behaviour!

[MoChara]

Cause it seems this political party dictated to the people of the area to the point they allowed in a changing room during training to intimate players and it taken as normal behaviour!

Sinn Fein never publicly endorsed the PSNI for another 5 years after he joined, something I'm sure his cousin Declan Kearney could have told him.  but on another level you think it was a clear sign of autocratic rule that the people that shunned him were OK with people explaining why he was being shunned?

[Keyser soze]

Cause it seems this political party dictated to the people of the area to the point they allowed in a changing room during training to intimate players and it taken as normal behaviour!

So you think the people who intimidated and them bombed him were representing SF? Or are you talking about some other political party?

[Milltown Row2]

Everyone knows who bombed him, i dont think thats the issue, he knew there was always going to be others ouside of the main political parties that would be intent on causing death/harm to all security forces.. read what he said about his own, thats his problem..

I totaly get the reason why some may have given him the the cold shoulder, as a club they have been put in a position locally that they may support a player that is in a police service that many believe have help the murder of numerous GAA memebers, who had no involvement with the IRA..

As MoChara has said, and still to this day on the ground republicans wont change their mindset on the PSNI, as i said earlier it may take generations for that view to mellow..

I havent the answers as to how you gain trust, people have lost love ones over many decades and never got justice for them... but continuing to shun them will always take longer to fix...

As a point of interest to or southern friends and this is a honest question, how do the police in the south integrate into the local communities? And I mean that in a way that in the north we've never had local police living next door to us, which seems strange.. is there a bitta distrust that you's see in the likes of England or is it grand?

[tonto1888]

Why on earth was a cold respone from his teammates "justified".

Nationalists spent decades trying to get rid of the RUC & have it replaced. The PSNI was the result of those efforts. Was it perfect? No. Is it perfect today? No.

But guess what? No police force is perfect & one way of ensuring same old same old was for nationalists to turn their backs on the new force. Brave men like Peadar paid the price for insular thinking & cowardice & I for one applaud him for it & I applaud Joe Brolly for highighting it.

I understand that perfectly. I'm also able to bring myself back to that time and remember what I thought.

It may be that I was wrong to think that at the time no one should join the PSNI. I did think it though and I believe I had good reason.
My dislike for the PSNI has mellowed over time and perhaps that is due to men like this but there are probably many more factors.

I believe I am a good man, I was then too. I did honestly not like anyone joining the PSNI at that time.
I was not a coward to think this, my mother was not a coward to think the same. In saying that neither of us would have wished any harm to come to anyone who decided to join.

this is how I remember it also.

I remember a couple of people I know joining a few years later and my feelings on them would not have been good.
Fast forward 13 years and a friend of mine joined and Id have been supportive of his decision.

[Keyser soze]

Well Milltown it appears that Weasel certainly doesn't know as he has mentioned SF repeatedly as being involved in the intimidation.

[Kickham csc]

Val in a way you like our equivalent of a die hard dup supporter; still stuck in the past! You all be happy if the police was 100% protestant like the good ole days! How come he was shudded in creggan but when a lad where i live done the same 10-12yrs ago there wasnt a problem; people maybe suprised but nobody took offence or wished him harm! Creggan come out if this looking very poorly especially after the bomb

So obviously it's my club that a lot of people are throwing stones at, so I'm going to post a few thoughts on the issue.

Sadly, the article was not 100% accurate and doesn't provide the full context of the situation (obviously when the club doesn't comment a full picture is not going to be presented)

Peadar announced to the team in a meeting in O'Boyle's pub about his decision to join the  PSNI.  A silence descended upon the room as the Creggan community has a mixture of hardline republican and nationalist political views,  and the team's views would have been representative of that mix.

I know at least three teammates and the chairman spoke up in support of the decision, myself being one, and we spoke of the change needed in policing and Peadar was part of the change. I'm disappointed that this wasn't mentioned in the article because he did have support of some of his team mates. This is highlighted even more so that after some of us retired, we organized weekly soccer sessions on the new 4G at the club, and Peadar was included as part of our group, every week. So again disappointed that this was not mentioned.

Also at the meeting, other views were expressed, one being that no one should join until the full reforms were put in place, as there was a view that the PSNI was re-badged RUC and reforms should be implemented before the force would become acceptable to the community.

The senior team at the time could be divided into three groups, a few older heads, with some supporting Peadar and some not, a small group who knew Peadar through the youth teams who were mostly supportive, and a young batch who were just establishing themselves on the team. This group would have been from predominantly republican backgrounds and mostly not supportive of the move.

The team never fell out, but I know words were said to wise up about the situation and that the jersey came first etc. The situation wasn't great, but not a disaster and Peadar trained and played away. I know that I personally spoke to Peadar about being left out of teams and pulled him into mine, and  I know that I personally spoke out to lads who referred him as Brit. So the atmosphere was tense but was being managed 

So again, the article doesn't accurately reflect the situation at the time.

The reference to the difficult position that the club found itself in was related to  received threats. The club were advised that our youth teams safety couldn't be guaranteed and our senior team were offered challenge matches during the next pre-season, but specific requests were made to ensure we brought our brit. The club were especially concerned about the threat to our youth teams and an inability to protect them.

So I know the club went to Peadar and asked him to take a year out until things calmed down.

Peadar being Peadar said no, and when the leaflets were handed out in the changing room, Peadar understandably walked away. I know this is where he believes the club let him down the most, that they didn't defend him publicly when this occurred.

That incident was scary, even though no thread was made, the way the leaflets were handed out was menacing and it felt like a threat to everyone who supported Peadar, and obviously to Peadar himself. Also, the lads who handed out the leaflets were not associated with the club, and

Regarding the club not contacting Peadar in an official capacity, again probably true and I don't know the ins and outs of that so not able to comment .

Regarding the community, it was shocked and saddened about the attack and his uncles were part of the club committee, and all messages of support to Peadar were delivered via his family, as he was unable to receive visits.

This response is not intended to be a message of blind support for the Creggan club and community, but the situation was def. more complex than what was described in the article as was NI during that period