Joe Brolly

[Captain Obvious]

 

Pádraic Joyce: Give me analysis over opinion any day
County , Dublin GAA , Galway GAA , Kerry GAA and Kildare GAA | Thu Apr 13 08:56:12 IST 2017
"Is the @LeagueSundayRTE and @TheSundayGame not for ANALYSING games ..? All we are getting is opinions. #RTEGAA"
 
I wouldn't be a great man for the auld social media but this tweet I put up last Sunday night generated a few likes, so clearly I said what others were thinking. I prefer analysis to opinion, and I think a lot of GAA people don't even watch it at this point.
I wanted some insight into the decision to take off Cian O'Sullivan, and why Dublin put on Kevin McManamon and Michael Darragh Macauley after taking off the centre-back and Ciaran Reddin. How did Kerry stop O'Sullivan having such an influence on the game? Jim Gavin made the bold substitution in a bid to win the game which nearly paid off as UCD Student Mannion contributed 1-2 from play.

The Dubs gave away seven frees midway through the second half and Philly McMahon was twice reduced to panic tackles - with a closed fist on one occasion - and O'Sullivan also gave away a free for a pull of the jersey right in front of the goals. The bottom line was that the Kingdom had put the All-Ireland champions under huge pressure and it was telling. The Dubs were panicking, giving away easy frees and easy ball.
 
Dublin handpassed and kicked away some easy ball which were taken full advantage of. Kerry came with a more attacking mindset but they played on the edge too. Jonathan Lyne was black-carded for hauling down Diarmiud Connolly but I felt it could have been red: it was high and dangerous. We got no analysis into the role Peter Crowley played, who in my opinion was the best player on the pitch. He was immense in defence, and then getting up and down the field supporting his forwards all day.
 
Bernard Brogan didn't shine for Dublin last Sunday but I am a firm believer that you are only as good as the ball coming into you. Bernard was well shackled but the quality of ball into him was terrible, he had no chance.
 
Ciaran Kilkenny doesn't kick enough of the ball he gets, he is handpassing 80% of it laterally or backwards; so how can inside forwards operate when you have a middle third man not supplying quick early ball inside? Ciaran got huge praise last year on the 'Sunday Game' for handling the ball 37 times against Dublin but what they failed to analyse was that 30 of those balls were hand passed backwards or sideways. Another game, for the record, in which Brogan was taken off. 

The Dublin inside forwards simply didn't get early ball and this is also due to the pressure Kerry put on around the middle third. Kerry also on occasions pushed up to great effect which meant Stephen Cluxton had to kick 50-50 kickouts and David Moran profited big time.
The week leading into the game, Eamonn Fitzmaurice came out in the media talking about an orchestrated campaign against Lee Keegan last year which had an influence on his black card in the final replay. I agree on this point, because Keegan didn't deserve to get the line, and perhaps it was a case of evening it up after Jonny Cooper had been put off.

The ex-Dubs were out in force in the media then and even Paul Curran after the league game in Tralee saying Kerry were guilty of "shameful" play. Fitzmaurice had to level the playing field, I'm 100% behind him on that. It shows his players too that they're all paddling in the one direction when their manager goes public in support of them. Tomas and Darragh O Se and Bomber Liston all write articles in the media and none of them were throwing curve balls in Dublin's direction when they had the platform. Fitzmaurice is a great GAA man, he was a tough uncompromising centre-back with a great football brain. I came across him a few times in my career and he'd always be first over to shake your hand after; whatever went on during the game was left on the pitch.
 
The GAA needs characters like Joe Brolly. I'm not trying to draw Joe Brolly onto me! After all, he is a more academically qualified and a more intelligent gentleman than I will ever be! But I can't not mention him going on about the Gooch. Northern teams such as Tyrone, Donegal and Armagh always had two men around him and another one watching, unlike Cork and Mayo. That has to be understood. When did you ever see any forward kick 1-4 or five points from play against those aforementioned teams in their heyday?
 
I once got a rise out of Joe by reminding him of the 1998 All-Ireland semi-final against us, he was taken off well before the final whistle sounded because Tomas Mannion had him in his pocket from the first minute. He was giving me guff one night after a charity game and I said "Joe, I'll get Tomas Mannion after you..!" which quietened him! I always remember the camera panning to Joe just after half-time and he's on the bench rubbing his head, whereas he'd been off blowing kisses to the crowd in Clones just a few weeks earlier after big Geoffrey McGonigle handed him one on a plate. So I am just not sure Joe is so qualified to give such a heavily-weighted opinion about the Gooch not scoring against these teams when he will be hard pressed to name someone who did. Sometimes, if you have nothing positive to say in certain situations, you are better off saying nothing at all.

One cost-saving measure that RTE should look at is this: the next time they use Joe, they would be better off getting him on alone as the people on with him rarely get a word in anyway. Even when Joe talked about the Galway-Kildare league final, he just dismissed it as a terrible game. Now, I will say that the intensity levels were light years off what Kerry and Dublin produced but it was so important for Galway to get back up to Division 1 for 2018. But to also win the final in Croke Park and stop all the talk there was about not winning there for so long. There were 34 points scored in that game too

[The Stallion]

He was pretty much correct about Cavanagh, who was a very good footballer but some of his diving and fouling was just pathetic stuff.

You would have to question what sort of a person values winning a game so much that they'd throw themselves to the floor at the slightest touch and hold their face like they'd been shot. Some idiots might say "a winner" of course, there's no shortage of people prepared to excuse the inexcusable.

Wise up you clown just because your county are now irrelevant.

Every top level forward at club or county include brolly knows how to win a free and have done it at some point. With regards fouling what are you on about? the one pull down of mc manus by any chance? Really going back there? anyone would have done it.

Brolly uses his position to slate players who are held in high regard, its all about his ego.

For him to question someone as a man for a foul on a football pitch then behave like he has in real life says it all really. be proud Derry

This has nothing to do with what county I'm from. Some Derry players engage in similar antics, it's wrong wherever you hail from

"anyone would have done it" - this is simply untrue. You have to lack a sense of fair play and sportsmanship to do something like that. Cavanagh clearly lacks these values, but not everyone is like that.

[BennyHarp]

He was pretty much correct about Cavanagh, who was a very good footballer but some of his diving and fouling was just pathetic stuff.

You would have to question what sort of a person values winning a game so much that they'd throw themselves to the floor at the slightest touch and hold their face like they'd been shot. Some idiots might say "a winner" of course, there's no shortage of people prepared to excuse the inexcusable.

Wise up you clown just because your county are now irrelevant.

Every top level forward at club or county include brolly knows how to win a free and have done it at some point. With regards fouling what are you on about? the one pull down of mc manus by any chance? Really going back there? anyone would have done it.

Brolly uses his position to slate players who are held in high regard, its all about his ego.

For him to question someone as a man for a foul on a football pitch then behave like he has in real life says it all really. be proud Derry

This has nothing to do with what county I'm from. Some Derry players engage in similar antics, it's wrong wherever you hail from

"anyone would have done it" - this is simply untrue. You have to lack a sense of fair play and sportsmanship to do something like that. Cavanagh clearly lacks these values, but not everyone is like that.

They didn't bring the black card in for a bit of craic. It was bought in because cynical play was rife in the game. I.e. Everyone was doing it. Football at the top level is about winning and if you think any player worth their salt wouldn't commit a cynical act to ensure his team made it to an AI final or semi final after a year or maybe even a lifetime of trying, then you are naive in the extreme.

[The Stallion]

I have no doubt many players would have done the same. Many players cheat just as Cavanagh routinely does.

Not all though. Some people don't cheat.

[bannside]

Antrim were a point up a week ago against Longford and hanging on by their fingertips to Division three status where we would have had a right oul crack against our oul enemy Derry. But, with seven minutes overtime played we most naively allowed Longford to run the ball thd length of the pitch into our scoring zone before someone gave away a silly foul 45 yards out. They scored with the last kick of the game and we were relegated.

If one player had dragged a Longford player down in their own half the game was over and we were safe.

If you were manager Stallion  what would you have told your team to do?

[redhandefender]

I have no doubt many players would have done the same. Many players cheat just as Cavanagh routinely does.

Not all though. Some people don't cheat.

What age are you man 60? "some people don't cheat" lol God oh you must be well out of the game if you were ever in it!

You are from derry yous have had some of the biggest thugs down through the years and brolly and co regularily bought a free.

Every inter county forward does it to some degree

[The Stallion]

I wouldn't command a player to cheat if that's what you mean. Some things are more important than winning at all costs.

[The Stallion]

I have no doubt many players would have done the same. Many players cheat just as Cavanagh routinely does.

Not all though. Some people don't cheat.

What age are you man 60? "some people don't cheat" lol God oh you must be well out of the game if you were ever in it!

You are from derry yous have had some of the biggest thugs down through the years and brolly and co regularily bought a free.

Every inter county forward does it to some degree

I'm not surprised to hear your incredulity at the thought that some people don't cheat but it is true.

I don't know why you keep mentioning the fact I'm from Derry as though it makes any difference to the point I'm making. I've already said Derry players cheat too. It's inexcusable regardless of where you're from. And as predicted, there's no shortage of people prepared to defend the indefensible.

[Owen Brannigan]

I wouldn't command a player to cheat if that's what you mean. Some things are more important than winning at all costs.

Breaking any of the rules of Gaelic football is not cheating. If it was then everyone on the pitch would be considered a cheat including the officials who do not implement the defined rules of the game.

There is a difference between being cynical in your action on the pitch and cheating.

The black card was brought in as a panic measure to prevent cynical actions on the field when referees and their assistants fail to fully implement the existing rules.  It doesn't work because when cynical action is required to win a game, it occurs and players regularly 'take one for the team".

Players play to win and those who are fully motivated and determined to do so will always carry out the actions that will ensure a win but do as little harm to their opponents as possible, hence for example the 'rugby tackle' rather than a foot trip.

[Zulu]

The black card is working. Nothing will prevent what Maher did and the black card was never designed to eradicate what nothing can. There is, of course, issues but as long as human beings are being asked to adjudicate on fouls in real time there will always be mistakes.

[Main Street]

I wouldn't command a player to cheat if that's what you mean. Some things are more important than winning at all costs.

Breaking any of the rules of Gaelic football is not cheating. If it was then everyone on the pitch would be considered a cheat including the officials who do not implement the defined rules of the game.

There is a difference between being cynical in your action on the pitch and cheating.

The black card was brought in as a panic measure to prevent cynical actions on the field when referees and their assistants fail to fully implement the existing rules.  It doesn't work because when cynical action is required to win a game, it occurs and players regularly 'take one for the team".

Players play to win and those who are fully motivated and determined to do so will always carry out the actions that will ensure a win but do as little harm to their opponents as possible, hence for example the 'rugby tackle' rather than a foot trip.

You need to brush up on minor details, for example facts rate higher that emotional claptrap..

[Jinxy]

The only effective deterrent for a foul like Maher's is awarding a free much closer to goal and even then that only works if it's a one-point game.
If the attacking team needs a goal with time ticking away, defenders will happily take yellow cards, red cards, black cards and christmas cards until the cows come home.

[Zulu]

I agree Jinxy, a 14 yard free would be more of a deterrent in certain situations but it would also increase the scrutiny on referees. One of the major issues in finding a solution to fouling is that if the deterrent is so hash that it works then it also becomes more difficult for a referee to implement and if he gets it wrong he is crucified. If the deterrent is too lenient then it fails to be a deterrent.

[macdanger2]

Pádraic Joyce: Give me analysis over opinion any day
County , Dublin GAA , Galway GAA , Kerry GAA and Kildare GAA | Thu Apr 13 08:56:12 IST 2017
"Is the @LeagueSundayRTE and @TheSundayGame not for ANALYSING games ..? All we are getting is opinions. #RTEGAA"

I wouldn't be a great man for the auld social media but this tweet I put up last Sunday night generated a few likes, so clearly I said what others were thinking. I prefer analysis to opinion, and I think a lot of GAA people don't even watch it at this point.
I wanted some insight into the decision to take off Cian O'Sullivan, and why Dublin put on Kevin McManamon and Michael Darragh Macauley after taking off the centre-back and Ciaran Reddin. How did Kerry stop O'Sullivan having such an influence on the game? Jim Gavin made the bold substitution in a bid to win the game which nearly paid off as UCD Student Mannion contributed 1-2 from play.

The Dubs gave away seven frees midway through the second half and Philly McMahon was twice reduced to panic tackles - with a closed fist on one occasion - and O'Sullivan also gave away a free for a pull of the jersey right in front of the goals. The bottom line was that the Kingdom had put the All-Ireland champions under huge pressure and it was telling. The Dubs were panicking, giving away easy frees and easy ball.

Dublin handpassed and kicked away some easy ball which were taken full advantage of. Kerry came with a more attacking mindset but they played on the edge too. Jonathan Lyne was black-carded for hauling down Diarmiud Connolly but I felt it could have been red: it was high and dangerous. We got no analysis into the role Peter Crowley played, who in my opinion was the best player on the pitch. He was immense in defence, and then getting up and down the field supporting his forwards all day.

Bernard Brogan didn't shine for Dublin last Sunday but I am a firm believer that you are only as good as the ball coming into you. Bernard was well shackled but the quality of ball into him was terrible, he had no chance.

Ciaran Kilkenny doesn't kick enough of the ball he gets, he is handpassing 80% of it laterally or backwards; so how can inside forwards operate when you have a middle third man not supplying quick early ball inside? Ciaran got huge praise last year on the 'Sunday Game' for handling the ball 37 times against Dublin but what they failed to analyse was that 30 of those balls were hand passed backwards or sideways. Another game, for the record, in which Brogan was taken off.

The Dublin inside forwards simply didn't get early ball and this is also due to the pressure Kerry put on around the middle third. Kerry also on occasions pushed up to great effect which meant Stephen Cluxton had to kick 50-50 kickouts and David Moran profited big time.
The week leading into the game, Eamonn Fitzmaurice came out in the media talking about an orchestrated campaign against Lee Keegan last year which had an influence on his black card in the final replay. I agree on this point, because Keegan didn't deserve to get the line, and perhaps it was a case of evening it up after Jonny Cooper had been put off.

The ex-Dubs were out in force in the media then and even Paul Curran after the league game in Tralee saying Kerry were guilty of "shameful" play. Fitzmaurice had to level the playing field, I'm 100% behind him on that. It shows his players too that they're all paddling in the one direction when their manager goes public in support of them. Tomas and Darragh O Se and Bomber Liston all write articles in the media and none of them were throwing curve balls in Dublin's direction when they had the platform. Fitzmaurice is a great GAA man, he was a tough uncompromising centre-back with a great football brain. I came across him a few times in my career and he'd always be first over to shake your hand after; whatever went on during the game was left on the pitch.

The GAA needs characters like Joe Brolly. I'm not trying to draw Joe Brolly onto me! After all, he is a more academically qualified and a more intelligent gentleman than I will ever be! But I can't not mention him going on about the Gooch. Northern teams such as Tyrone, Donegal and Armagh always had two men around him and another one watching, unlike Cork and Mayo. That has to be understood. When did you ever see any forward kick 1-4 or five points from play against those aforementioned teams in their heyday?

I once got a rise out of Joe by reminding him of the 1998 All-Ireland semi-final against us, he was taken off well before the final whistle sounded because Tomas Mannion had him in his pocket from the first minute. He was giving me guff one night after a charity game and I said "Joe, I'll get Tomas Mannion after you..!" which quietened him! I always remember the camera panning to Joe just after half-time and he's on the bench rubbing his head, whereas he'd been off blowing kisses to the crowd in Clones just a few weeks earlier after big Geoffrey McGonigle handed him one on a plate. So I am just not sure Joe is so qualified to give such a heavily-weighted opinion about the Gooch not scoring against these teams when he will be hard pressed to name someone who did. Sometimes, if you have nothing positive to say in certain situations, you are better off saying nothing at all.

One cost-saving measure that RTE should look at is this: the next time they use Joe, they would be better off getting him on alone as the people on with him rarely get a word in anyway. Even when Joe talked about the Galway-Kildare league final, he just dismissed it as a terrible game. Now, I will say that the intensity levels were light years off what Kerry and Dublin produced but it was so important for Galway to get back up to Division 1 for 2018. But to also win the final in Croke Park and stop all the talk there was about not winning there for so long. There were 34 points scored in that game too

Good piece from Joyce, where was that written??

[Captain Obvious]

Good piece from Joyce, where was that written??

Was written here https://aib.ie/gaa/blog/2017/04/padraic_joyce_give_me_analysis_over_opinion_any_day the latter part is about Galway.