Joe Brolly

[Throw ball]

Met a few Armagh people at an underage blitz yesterday and they all seemed to broadly support Brollys comments. They were scathing of McGeeney and the large sums of money he is paid.
Is this reflective of general Armagh supporters? as it surprised me. I thought McGeeney was untouchable in Armagh

That would be the general consensus in the county alright. A lot of clubs have been hit with additional county board levies in the last few years and are up in arms over the wasted resources. They (the clubs) are bearing the brunt both financially and in terms of access to county players. McGeeneys future will likely be dependent on an extended run in the back door with at least one big result against div 1/2 opposition. However it will not be the county board who make that decision as the tail firmly wags the dog. Having said that, McGeeney has had a lot of sympathy though this week after being slaughtered by Brolly on live tv and that could actually work in his favour. He can develop a siege mentality and at the end of the day he is a fellow county man and possibly our greatest ever player being ridiculed and belittled by a media whore like Brolly.

On the finance matter a reliable poster on the county forum stated that the latest accounts from the county board showed that since Geezer came back to Armagh the debt for the county has actually reduced. The burden suffered by the clubs may be as much to do with past problems as current ones.

I have not seen the accounts, or even sought to see them, but this offers an alternative view which if correct may colour the argument.

On another point at least some of the county players played for their clubs on Friday night.

An awful lot more detail would be required and you would think that those who are in a position to publish some of the information would be in a position to post all of the information? Especially if they reliable? To be relied on to do what?

What I am getting that is if we had a debt of £1m and were repaying the debt at £50k per year and we got a new regime and they upped the annual income from £250k to £500k by increasing demands on clubs and patrons. The additional monies were spent on teams and managers who go backwards but the £50k annual debt repayments continued to be met. In those circumstances the financial and sporting health of the county would not have improved and from a return on investment perspective would actually have disimproved  it would still be possible to say that "since AN Other came back to the county the debt for the county has actually reduced".

Is it possible that rather than being reliable that your source is not only missing the point but in engaging in a bit of smoke and mirrors to deflect the focus from what the actual point should be?

Your point could be right or wrong. Without the full information we might never know. I have what most would consider a fairly good understanding of financial matters. The problem is that looking at accounts as a standalone item you are normally only presented with the superficial view. A schedule of income and expenditure might not tell you who spent the money. A balance sheet only shows the balances at a certain date. Without full access to the books and records we can only rely on the information we get. Now if Armagh County Board want me to undertake a review of these records and make my findings public I would willingly do so. Then again that is a bit like Joe Brolly looking for a debate with the county chairman! Never going to happen!

[Throw ball]

Missed the Sunday Game but just read the thread. May have to review my last post before the county board come a calling.

[smelmoth]

I presume Joseph will prescribe that Eamonn Burns literally,from the top of the Mournes tonight?

What does this mean?

[smelmoth]

Met a few Armagh people at an underage blitz yesterday and they all seemed to broadly support Brollys comments. They were scathing of McGeeney and the large sums of money he is paid.
Is this reflective of general Armagh supporters? as it surprised me. I thought McGeeney was untouchable in Armagh

That would be the general consensus in the county alright. A lot of clubs have been hit with additional county board levies in the last few years and are up in arms over the wasted resources. They (the clubs) are bearing the brunt both financially and in terms of access to county players. McGeeneys future will likely be dependent on an extended run in the back door with at least one big result against div 1/2 opposition. However it will not be the county board who make that decision as the tail firmly wags the dog. Having said that, McGeeney has had a lot of sympathy though this week after being slaughtered by Brolly on live tv and that could actually work in his favour. He can develop a siege mentality and at the end of the day he is a fellow county man and possibly our greatest ever player being ridiculed and belittled by a media whore like Brolly.

On the finance matter a reliable poster on the county forum stated that the latest accounts from the county board showed that since Geezer came back to Armagh the debt for the county has actually reduced. The burden suffered by the clubs may be as much to do with past problems as current ones.

I have not seen the accounts, or even sought to see them, but this offers an alternative view which if correct may colour the argument.

On another point at least some of the county players played for their clubs on Friday night.

An awful lot more detail would be required and you would think that those who are in a position to publish some of the information would be in a position to post all of the information? Especially if they reliable? To be relied on to do what?

What I am getting that is if we had a debt of £1m and were repaying the debt at £50k per year and we got a new regime and they upped the annual income from £250k to £500k by increasing demands on clubs and patrons. The additional monies were spent on teams and managers who go backwards but the £50k annual debt repayments continued to be met. In those circumstances the financial and sporting health of the county would not have improved and from a return on investment perspective would actually have disimproved  it would still be possible to say that "since AN Other came back to the county the debt for the county has actually reduced".

Is it possible that rather than being reliable that your source is not only missing the point but in engaging in a bit of smoke and mirrors to deflect the focus from what the actual point should be?

Your point could be right or wrong. Without the full information we might never know. I have what most would consider a fairly good understanding of financial matters. The problem is that looking at accounts as a standalone item you are normally only presented with the superficial view. A schedule of income and expenditure might not tell you who spent the money. A balance sheet only shows the balances at a certain date. Without full access to the books and records we can only rely on the information we get. Now if Armagh County Board want me to undertake a review of these records and make my findings public I would willingly do so. Then again that is a bit like Joe Brolly looking for a debate with the county chairman! Never going to happen!

Quite correct that we just don't know. But in this state of ignorance that you and I share why would statements that all is ok hold any more weight than statements to the contrary?

But far, far more importantly is it not far more vital to focus the debate on what is the level of investment in the various teams and is that investment paying off?

Anyway after last nights intervention we must be getting close to another county board apology to the fans. Its only a question of whether its for affairs on or off the field of play. f**k that was embarrassing. 

[smelmoth]

We should get Brolly on a crusade about paying to managers. After last night's precedent if he makes that allegation against McGeeney the County Board will have to read a statement on The Sunday Game denying it. 'Cos if they don't ...........

Or maybe the managers would bite the bait and make their own statements?

Time to clean this show up instead of some individuals cleaning up.

[heffo]

Why is he so fixated on McGeeney (aside from the insult at Eamonn Coleman's funeral)?

Armagh are far from the only county allegedly paying their manager and they aren't the only ones restricting access to county players.

[smelmoth]

Not sure he is fixated on McGeeney. He has a view on how the game should be played and how players should be allowed to live (in terms of playing, training, socialising, having a family life and having a career). McGeeney falls, or is accused of falling on the other side of that debate.

Not sure Brolly has got on to the payments debate yet but hopefully he will. He should. Its of a piece with his other points.

[5 Sams]

If Ger Canning was doing his job properly he should have asked the Armagh Chairman last night in the Sunday Game interview how much they were paying McGeeney.

[theskull1]

If Ger Canning was doing his job properly he should have asked the Armagh Chairman last night in the Sunday Game interview how much they were paying McGeeney.

You're assuming a county board is the only source of any payments/expenses? That's a big assumption Id say

[Beffs]

Not sure he is fixated on McGeeney. He has a view on how the game should be played and how players should be allowed to live (in terms of playing, training, socialising, having a family life and having a career). McGeeney falls, or is accused of falling on the other side of that debate.

Not sure Brolly has got on to the payments debate yet but hopefully he will. He should. Its of a piece with his other points.

I'd agree with all that. But when its one Ulster man taking on another Ulster man, and they know each other, it becomes personalized. Brolly is entirely responsible for that, given his inflammatory language, but the basic points he is trying to make (about overly controlling and demanding managers) are sound. The demands made on players these days are off the charts. It's not going to end, until someone, somewhere calls for a halt to it AND, has the gumption to keep on banging the drum, when its his turn to get it in the neck.

[lenny]

Why is he so fixated on McGeeney (aside from the insult at Eamonn Coleman's funeral)?

Armagh are far from the only county allegedly paying their manager and they aren't the only ones restricting access to county players.

Totally agree. This is completely personal for some reason. Brolly has singled mcgeeney out when there are numerous managers and counties in similar situations.

[naka]

If Ger Canning was doing his job properly he should have asked the Armagh Chairman last night in the Sunday Game interview how much they were paying McGeeney.

Nothing paddy☺️
Most county boards don't pay managers
Individuals might though

[skeog]

the time a manager has to devote to county management in the gaa is unreal so payment is necessary and if individuals with deep pockets provide donations thats their business

[Disillusioned]

I think the Armagh County Board was correct in making its statement and standing up to Brolly.  Too often people take it on the chin when treated by media in the way that Kieran McGeeney has been in several forums by Brolly.  If he was in any position other than a football manager, the case could have reached the court given the level of inaccuracies in Brolly's statements.  McGeeney deserved to be supported by his 'employer' and the county board has a duty to him.

Both O'Se and McGuigan bottled it when questioned on the SG, both should have taken the opportunity to put Brolly in his place but decided not to do so, the video report provided the platform and they could have used the situation to let it be known that personalised attacks such as those by Brolly are not acceptable.  Both of them were prepared to say 'ach, it's just Joe and he's a character'.  Says a lot about both of them but not surprised given that both are so involved in the media.

[Fuzzman]

Have to say I thought the exact same Disillusioned. I knew people would think it was not needed and OTT but usually when somebody attacks you or your players or manager I think you owe it to respond and stand up for yourself and give the other side of the story. As a Tyrone fan we have sat back and been attacked several times from Brolly and many others on RTE and we've "taken it on the chin" but our reputation has suffered for that. Yes many will argue no smoke without fire but there are lots of other counties who get off scott free without the same uproar.
The Armagh County chairman stated there was a lot of inaccuracies in what Joe said and so that alone is enough to say they were right to come on air and state that rather than letting RTE (the National broadcaster) give the rest of the country the impression that Armagh have loads of problems because of their manager who is like Roy Keane.

Brolly has some very good points that he brings up and he seems hell bent on this one now about players not playing club football now so many counties are finding that if they have no real hope of winning any silverware then the players just don't want to play for their county any more. That combined with the levels that the top 5 counties are training at now and have no life outside football means many players are deciding it is not worth it any more and so choose to play with their club instead.